WWUTT 1035 Q&A 120 Years, Chris Pratt, Meditation in Public Schools?

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Does Genesis 6 .3 mean that God will destroy the world in 120 years, or man will live to be 120?

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Is Chris Pratt a Christian, and what do we need to know about meditation in public schools? The answer is when we understand the text.

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This is When We Understand The Text, a daily study in the word of Christ, that we may be steadfast in the faith, and not tossed to and fro by every shifting wind of doctrine.

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For more resources, visit our website at www .utt .com. Here once again is

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Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. Are your throat nice and clear, ready to go here?

00:46

For about five minutes, maybe, if I'm lucky. We have had just a crazy amount of rain this year, and that's made the ragweed really bad.

00:55

Yeah. Everybody, everybody, I don't care who you are, is allergic to ragweed at this amount.

01:02

Yeah. You have to be. It's like you walk outside, and it's like, oh, look, ragweed.

01:08

Yes. It's like you feel it. Yeah. You're breathing it in. Yeah. It's burning your eyes.

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Oh, yeah. I can't hardly see outside, hardly at all. We never get this much rain in a year.

01:21

We were talking about how there was like one time, was it 20 years ago or something? It was in 93. Okay. Yeah, so 25 years ago.

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It was when I moved from one side of the state to this side of the state. Oh, really? Yeah. It was that year. I was living in Southwest Kansas at the time.

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We had like this low -lying area out back behind our church. It was where the road dipped down, one of the few places in Southwest Kansas where there's actually a valley.

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Yeah. Okay. And it was only like two blocks long, it wasn't even much of a valley, but anyway, it filled up with water.

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Oh, no. I remember that. And nobody could pass through that. They had to block it off. I remember that rain, and I've never seen rain in Kansas to this degree, this amount until or since then, 25 years ago when

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I was in middle school. Yeah. Was I younger than that? 93. That was middle school.

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Yeah. Yeah. I think I was in middle school then. Yeah. Anyway, so now we've had just a massive amount of rain.

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Things have even been so flooded they've had to shut down, like businesses have closed down. Yeah. And there's this big sinkhole that they've had to close off a road in Manhattan.

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Yeah. I heard about that. Yep. In two places, I think. It was two roads, because it just keeps getting bigger.

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It's for the sewer line or something, or right next to the sewer line, but it's caused by all this rain. Yeah. And so ragweed is real bad, end of August, beginning of September.

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That's when it's the worst, and this year is like the worst it's ever been. There was a day when

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Becky woke up, and she was like a totally different person, and it took like two days for it to catch up with me, but then

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I started getting hit with the same thing. I'm like, okay, something's wrong, and we thought there was a particular plant outside our house that was causing the problem, but it's the ragweed.

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Yeah. It must have been growing around our house, too. Yeah. Because I could not go on the north side of our house.

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My eyes would just start watering and scratching and itching and everything, and it would swell them shut.

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Yeah. And I'm like trying to walk around the house to get back inside, and I'm like, I can't see anything. Using the inside of my shirt to clean my eyes, so that way it's not the outside, you know, to put more pollen and stuff on them.

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Yeah, right. Because I've done that. I learned. There's been days

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I've felt pretty good. Yeah. Until I walk outside. Yep. Every time you've walked outside today, by the way,

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I don't think you've noticed, but you have sneezed every time you come back in. You are sneezing.

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Pretty sure I was sneezing when I was outside, too. Yeah. Well, it could have been, but before you walked out, you were all fine.

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And you come back in, you're like, sneeze, sneeze, sneeze. It was really gross. I feel really gross.

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I mean, I feel for you. Yeah. I've got the Hughes schnoz, the big old Hughes nose.

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And yeah, just like my dad, who was always susceptible to the ever -changing allergens and pollens every year,

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I inherited that from my father. Yeah. Good fun. This first question that we got actually has somewhat to do with this, somewhat to do with talking about my allergy problems.

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So this is from Jordan. Okay. And he says, Pastor Gabe, last week you quoted Genesis 6 -3 when discussing the death of dinosaurs and the context was how old

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Abraham was when he died and how people and animals do not live as long as we used to.

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In the way you quoted Genesis 6 -3, I inferred that you hold that passage to mean that God limited the lifespan of mankind.

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When I listened to Pastor MacArthur go through Genesis, he explained that Genesis 6 -3 is not a set lifetime for man, but that it took 120 years to build the

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Ark. And it was a warning that in 120 years, God would blot out man. What are your thoughts?

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Also, any update on when we can look forward to the literal word audio?

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Yes, there it is. Thanks for all you do, Jordan. So the answer to that last question, my allergies are going to have something to do with that, but I'll come to that here in just a moment.

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So let's go back to Genesis 6 -3. This was, I can't remember what we were talking about, this was about two weeks ago.

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It was a question that was asking about dinosaurs. Right. Oh yeah,

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I was talking about how the way things are on Earth now is different than the way things used to be.

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Right. And Peter talks about that even in 2 Peter 3, he says, what is now is not what was.

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And it was ever since the flood, things about the Earth have changed. And just as God had previously destroyed the world in a flood, he has promised he's never going to do that again, but the heavens are being stored up for fire for the

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Day of Judgment. So another judgment is coming, but it will be by fire and not by water. So in the process of giving that answer,

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I had made reference to, though I did not directly read, Genesis 6 -3, where it says, then the

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Lord said, my spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh, his days shall be 120 years.

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Now there are two ways to come about this particular passage. There are two more popular ways that this tends to get interpreted.

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And one of them is that this was in reference to the building of the Ark and the floodwaters that would come upon the

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Earth, which would be 120 years from the time that God was saying this.

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And then the other way to understand that is that God would limit the age of man to be shorter than what it was at the particular time that he made this mention.

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Right. And so gradually we see mankind's lifespan diminish. And do we ever see anybody live over 120 years?

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No. No. There was a woman in France several years back. I believe they say that she died at the age of 126.

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I can't remember her name. And at the time, she was the oldest person on the planet, the oldest person of record.

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No one had a record of anybody living longer than 126 years. But it's been since her death, they've actually discovered that she may have been lying.

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But yeah, you don't see people living to 120 years. And it doesn't mean that if somebody lives older than 120 years, then

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Genesis 6 -3 is wrong. Because again, the other possible interpretation of that is that God was just referencing that 120 years from now,

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I'm going to destroy the world in a flood. And that's how long it's going to take to build the Ark. Honestly, I say you could take that either way.

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And it's a very tertiary sort of a matter. It's not something you necessarily have to fall on your sword over.

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And it's not like you would disagree with MacArthur, with John MacArthur, I would disagree with him on that.

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Yeah. We might interpret that a little bit differently. I think I've read it both ways, honestly.

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I think I've even taught it both ways. So it's in reference to the

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Lord is going to destroy the world 120 years from now. Or does it mean that mankind is not going to live as long as he used to live?

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The removing of the spirit is interesting. Genesis 6 -3, the Lord said, my spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh.

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His days shall be 120 years. That's one of the reasons why I lean in the direction of it talking about that a man's lifespan will not be longer than 120 years.

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Because he's not going to live forever. The earth has been cursed. Death is the result of that curse.

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And so that occasion or penalty of death is going to creep closer and closer to man the older and older he gets, or the more generations of man continue on the earth.

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And I was thinking it would be maybe less towards the getting done in 120 years with the ark, because it mentioned the spirit dwelling in man, right?

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And so – My spirit shall not abide in man forever. Another way for that –

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But that would mean that the men that he's destroying are good, and they weren't.

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So that would make me think about it. It's also – the other way that that's interpreted is that my spirit shall not contend with man forever.

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Okay. Well, then that changes things. Right. It's interpreted either way. And your Bible will have that in the footnotes.

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Interesting. Your Bible, the translation you have, either says, my spirit shall not contend with man forever, or it says, my spirit shall not abide in man forever, whichever reading you have in the footnotes, it'll have the second reading, because it can be interpreted either way.

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I wonder how that was actually meant. I know. That's curious, sir. Continue to study.

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Yes. Go back to Genesis 6 -3, read it for yourself, and see what you come up with.

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Yeah. So the second part of Jordan's question, also, any update on when we can look forward to the literal word audio?

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Yeah, your voice has got to go back to normal. It does. It doesn't last very long because of allergies.

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That's part of the problem. I typically record at the end of the day, but because of my allergies at the end of the day, my voice is mostly gone.

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It's been tough even to record the podcast. Even that has been difficult. And there has been a couple of times where I've thought, you know, maybe

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I'll just take a week off. You will also notice that you're seeing fewer what videos.

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I only did one in the month of August. I've done one in September. I think I've got one more coming up here in the next day or two.

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But yeah, all of this stuff has progressed very, very slowly. And it's not just because of allergies. That is definitely one problem.

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But this has been a really, really hard year. It's just amazing to me the things that have come upon us this year that we don't ever really face or have never faced.

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And it seems to all be around the agreement to want to do the audio

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Bible. And then there was even at one point where Becky said to me, babe, can you go ahead and finish this?

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So maybe all this stuff will stop happening. Right. I did. I did. So anyway, as you're listening to all this, we are not complaining.

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We are very grateful to do the Lord's work and we will continue doing the Lord's work.

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But if you would pray for us, that would be wonderful. We would greatly appreciate it. I am greatly honored that literal word asked me to do this.

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I don't want to say it's necessarily a dream come true, but it kind of is. I've always wanted to do something like this.

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I've wanted to do an audio Bible. There was at one point I was working on it with the ESV and it was just doing it just because and then my kids would have it.

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And so, you know, maybe grandkids even somewhere down the way pulls up grandpa's audio

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Bible when he had recorded through the entire ESV. But then when this chance arose to do the

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New American Standard Bible and do it for the Literal Word app, I talked with the folks at Literal Word and they were excited about wanting me to do it.

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And so now I was doing it for something other than just, you know, future posterity or my own posterity.

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And so it was great. I love the chance, the opportunity to be able to do it. But the progress has been very, very slow.

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And it's been because of a whole number of factors. I really couldn't give you an end date on when

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I'm going to finish this up. I will say it's taking longer than I thought it was going to. And I think the estimates that I had originally set forth for myself were accurate.

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Mm hmm. Oh, yeah, definitely. But it just is doable. Yeah. It's just that all this stuff's been going on.

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It's just been really tough. I'm trying to get it done before we head to the Truth Matters conference in October.

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I know I'll have the New Testament done by then, but whether or not I'll have. And it'll be good to see you after October.

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That's right. We've got some other things going on, too. But there's stuff going on like I do during the day.

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I wouldn't be able to record then anyway. But yeah, so like we said, if you could be praying for us, we'd sure appreciate it.

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Oh, definitely. We're so grateful for all of the wonderful and kind encouragement that we've been getting in ministry.

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Just yesterday, well, Wednesday, this would have been. Wednesday, I was at the church and at 2 .30

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in the afternoon, the phone rang and I wasn't in the office. I had to run to the office to get the phone and always look at the caller

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ID before I answer it. Yeah. And it was a really long phone number. Oh. I had never seen so many digits in a phone number before.

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And so I picked up the phone and answered it and it was a man with an Indian accent. Okay. And so whenever you.

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From like India? Well, yeah. From India. Okay. From India. Right. So when you get calls and there's a person on the other end with an

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Indian accent, what's your first thought? Usually they're trying to sell you something. Right. Right. Exactly.

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Yeah. Didn't you get a call even from like the IRS? Yep. And it was a guy with an Indian accent.

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They called me from the IRS. Yep. And they were telling me that I owe all this money for back taxes and I did taxes wrong and everything.

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Right. And they wouldn't let me talk to my husband because it was secret and I would get in trouble and get arrested. Yeah. It was big.

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Which was a total scam. Yeah. Totally. Right. But I started crying and they're like, oh, please don't cry. You're my boss.

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I was like, okay. Yeah. We want to rob you, but we don't want you to cry.

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Right. I was bawling. And I took the phone from her and had some stern words for the individual.

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Yeah. But the, so this fellow calls and he has an accent.

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And so the first thought was, okay, this is going to be a sales call. And I almost just hung up, but he introduced himself.

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He said who he was and where he was from in India. Yeah. And he said, I watch all your videos and I listen to your sermons online.

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Oh, that's sweet. And I just wanted to call and tell you how much I appreciate what you do. Oh my goodness.

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And that it was, for me, it was very, very touching. Tears welled up in my eyes and it was only 60 seconds.

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Oh. It was just 60 second phone call. It's probably very expensive for him. Probably, yes.

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Without a doubt. To make that call. But he was so sweet and kind and said, I just wanted to encourage you to keep doing what you do.

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And you have people who listen to you in India. Oh, that is amazing. And see, those kinds of kind encouragements have helped to motivate and push us along as we, it feels like we trudge through this sometimes, but it is a desire that we would serve the

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Lord and his kingdom in this way and be able to offer this Bible teaching. I wouldn't, you know, compared to somebody like John MacArthur, who we were just talking about in this question,

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I'm not going to call myself, you know, anywhere on the same level that he is at, but that we're able to use this platform to minister to and to touch people and that there are people that this does reach and they appreciate it.

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It is the blessing of God that we've been able to do this in the first place.

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Right. Yeah. We've had the opportunity to do this from our little basement room. Yeah. Down here. It's just amazing in Kansas.

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Yeah. Of all places that we could reach so many different nooks and crannies of the world as I hit the shelf.

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For like the third time. Yes. I need to just put this away. And Becky's got her own little fan club now, even people don't like the

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Friday podcast if she's not on. Aw, stop it. You're just trying to make me blush at this point.

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It's very sweet. All right. Let's go to the next question then. Yes, please. Dear Becky. Yay! I love it.

17:14

Hello and how are you? I have a question about the inseparable love of God. I'm not sure if you know who

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Chris Pratt is. Becky, do you know who Chris Pratt is? Oh, it sounds so familiar. Yeah. Another name.

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Yeah. You think he got this name? No. Is he a singer? Nope. Then no. Not a singer. Well, I guess

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I have heard him sing. It was in an interview. But no, that's not what he's known for.

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No, I have no idea. How do I know that name? Chris Pratt claims to be a Christian, and I'm sure there are a lot more who claim.

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This is Isaac's email here. And yet he is in many movies where he does a lot of vile stuff, swearing, taking the

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Lord's name in vain. He even supported LGBTQ, and I'm sure he does all kinds of other things that we might consider to be ungodly.

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However, he does claim to be a Christian. And Romans 8, 38 through 39 backs him up, saying,

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I'm not convinced that he is actually a true believer, but I guess what I'm getting at is, please explain

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Romans 8, 38 through 39. Thanks, Isaac.

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P .S. I love your work. Any idea who Chris Pratt is now? No. Jurassic Park, The Lost World.

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Oh, that's how I know. Okay. Never mind. Woo. Yes. Okay. Now I see his face.

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There was a movie that I watched with Chris Pratt in it. It was a PG -13 film. I did not read anything on the movie before I watched it, and there was a very inappropriate scene in the film.

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And it was Chris Pratt with another woman who was not his wife. And so, yeah,

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I mean, that's akin to adultery. That would be the same as committing adultery in that sort of a situation.

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So to call Chris Pratt a Christian, he says that he is. If he is, he is very, very immature.

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There's still a lot of things in his life that he has not yet gotten rid of. But I hope that if the spirit is indeed in his life, he's being convicted over those things.

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Maybe his Christianity is very new. Maybe that movie was filmed before he claimed to be a

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Christian. I don't know the timetable for all of this stuff. I don't know any of that. I know that the church he was attending was

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Carl Lentz's church. Not Carl Lentz. I'm sorry. It was Chad Veach. Carl Lentz is in New York.

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Chad Veach is out in L .A. He's one of those superstar pastors. Well, I was going to suggest that even if he is saved and he's been saved for a while, he might not be hearing the convictions.

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It might just be that he's getting fed milk stuff. Well, I know. Yeah. Under Chad Veach's teaching,

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I don't know Chad Veach that well. I've never listened to a Chad Veach sermon, but I know he's a prosperity preacher. He's not only getting the fluffy stuff, which as you described as being milk, but he's also getting heresy if Chad Veach is doing any prosperity preaching.

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He might believe that he's a Christian, but he might not be. We don't know. We don't know. I don't know that for sure.

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I haven't met the man. Yeah. I've always been very skeptical of anyone in Hollywood who calls themselves a

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Christian. I'm sure there are Christians in Hollywood, but any of these major actors that call themselves

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Christians always tends to make me skeptical. I do know that Chris Pratt says some things that are fairly conservative, and it's nice to have that kind of voice whenever he appears at some sort of award show.

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I don't watch those things, but I'll hear about it. Hey, did you hear what Chris Pratt said at such and such a reward show or something like that?

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That's nice. I'm glad that there's somebody saying those kinds of things, at least being able to provide some different kind of voice than all the liberal trash that tends to pour out of those things, whether it's the

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Oscars or MTV Awards or anything like that. So he's kind of a different voice in the midst of all of that garbage that comes out of the air.

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It's tough to do. Yeah. It's tough to take a stand like that. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. He's even been caught by the edit police.

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What does that mean? He was doing a speech, receiving an award. I think it was one of the

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MTV Awards, one of the big popular award shows that I think fans vote on.

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Oh, okay. But he was giving a speech, and I watched it on YouTube. This is a year or two ago, and the speech was clipped.

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At one point, it was clipped. And I could tell. I grew up in radio. I've done all of this.

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I know about editing video. I know how to spot that stuff. So I could tell there was an edit that happened there.

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So there was something that happened in his speech. They didn't want him saying. They didn't want it coming out on the air that way.

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And there's no video of what was cut at all. Oh, really? So yeah, they nabbed it.

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They cut it out. Wow. And the original is not found anywhere. Interesting. So I've seen him nabbed by the edit police before.

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Okay. Clearly, the conservative voice that he gives in the midst of liberal

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Hollywood doesn't rub Hollywood the right way. They don't like it that much.

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So again, I like that there's somebody that's out there that's doing that. That doesn't mean, though, that just because there's a superstar

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Hollywood guy that's doing that kind of thing means that Christians should now hop on board and, well, we've got to support this guy.

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Right. So let's start watching the movies and the TV shows. Don't do that. No. No, no, no, no.

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Especially considering the film, like I said, that I came across that I did not know had that scene in it.

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Yeah, that would be, yeah. Anyway, so explain

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Romans 8, 38 and 39, then. So let's go to Romans 8. I'm going to start in verse 31, which

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I actually even read in the sermon that I did this past Sunday. Oh, cool. So this week, if you've been listening to the audio that gets uploaded to the podcast page, then you've already heard me read this this week.

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But Romans 8, starting in verse 31, what shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?

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He who did not spare his own son, but gave him up for us all. How will he not also with him graciously give us all things?

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Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn?

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Christ Jesus is the one who died. More than that, who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

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Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

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As it is written, for your sake, we are being killed all the day long. We are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.

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Knowing all of these things, we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our

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Lord. Now who we're talking about there is very specifically the elect of God.

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And that was back in verse 33, who shall bring any charge against God's elect?

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It is God who justifies. So those whom God has justified, he is also sanctifying, and they will never be separated from the love of God in Christ Jesus our

25:07

Lord. Okay, so explain to them what sanctifying is. Sanctifying is growing in holiness.

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So what are some things that we would see in our lives as we're growing through? What sort of evidence will a person show to demonstrate?

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There we go. Yeah, it just wasn't coming out right. That they are growing in the Lord and that they are growing in holiness.

25:30

So there should - Pretend that I asked that. All right. Gotcha. Okay. What was it R .C.

25:35

Sproul said to Johnny Mac, to John MacArthur? He said, why is it, Johnny Mac, that I always have to explain what you mean?

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Some of you probably - Because his gift is interpretation. That's right. Not communication, just interpretation.

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So what we should see in the life of a believer that demonstrates the fruit of salvation that they have in Christ, we should be seeing a growth in their knowledge of God.

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So they're growing in the knowledge of God. You're growing in your love for God and your knowledge of him. And where do we get that from?

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We get that through Bible reading and prayer. So you read your Bible to hear God speak to you and you pray that you may speak back to the

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Lord. And this is how you grow your relationship with God. And it's in love of the

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Lord that you not only grow in knowledge of him according to his word, but you are convicted even to obey this word.

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So there is, first of all, going to be a growth in the knowledge of God and your love for him.

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Secondly, there's going to be a growth in obedience to the commands of God. So it doesn't mean you do that perfectly when you first become a

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Christian. You will mature and get better in that as you grow. And that's all by the guidance and the power that is given to you in the

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Holy Spirit. It is not a reliance upon yourself to keep the commands of God.

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It is continued reliance upon the Lord that you are growing in holiness and in obedience to his word.

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So there's a growth in the knowledge and love of God. There's a growth in the holiness of God. You're maturing in holiness and godliness.

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And the word godliness very simply means you're growing up to be like God. That's what you want to be like.

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You want to be as your savior. You're growing in Christ -likeness. Romans 8, 29, so just a few verses back before this, that we are being conformed into the image of his son.

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And those whom he predestined, he also called. Those whom he called, he also justified. Those whom he justified, he also glorified.

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And Christ said, if you know me, then you know my father, or the father. And Jesus also said to his disciples,

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John 14, 15, you will show me that you love me when you obey my commandments. So obeying the commands of God and growing in holiness is demonstrating that growing love for God as well.

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So then the third thing that we're going to demonstrate is a growing love for the people of God. And in this, we're also going to mature.

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So there's going to be a certain way that you will understand loving one another in the body of Christ when you first become a

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Christian. And then that understanding is even going to grow and perfect itself and mature.

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The more Christians you love, the more you weep with those who weep and rejoice with those who rejoice.

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The more you labor with each other in preaching and teaching and singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs and encouraging and admonishing one another.

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And preaching and teaching not meaning that you need to have the ability to preach and teach to others, but rather that you are sitting with them, your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, as you are learning from the

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Lord and learning from him together. This is another reason why your maturity in the body of Christ cannot be done through the

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Internet. Right. Exactly. It cannot be done through watching Internet sermons or listening to Christian podcasts like this one.

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Yeah. You are growing in a knowledge and love of God as you are relying upon other teachers to help guide you through this.

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But the exercise, the use of it is not being demonstrated. You can't show grace to somebody else.

29:22

Through the computer. Yeah, through the computer. It's like, oh yeah, I'm just going to not respond to this, but they don't know that.

29:30

They don't see grace or mercy or any of those.

29:35

We should demonstrate love and grace even with those that we interact online.

29:40

Well, yes, of course, but they don't really see that if you're, they can feel that you care.

29:46

Right. There's just a personalness that doesn't exist online. That has to exist personably between people.

29:55

And this is why we go to church. We grow together in the knowledge of God, singing songs together, learning from the preacher together.

30:03

These things are essential. It's necessary for the body of Christ to meet in this way. Right. And the

30:09

Bible tells us that. Right. So your growth in love with one another is going to be a demonstration of your sanctification.

30:17

This is part of the fruit that you will show as somebody who is maturing in Christ Jesus.

30:25

So what does this all have to do with Chris Pratt? Bringing this to the Chris Pratt question. Well, Romans 8, 38 through 39 doesn't necessarily deal with this issue with Chris Pratt right here.

30:35

Okay. This is about those whom God has elected. And if God has elected this person and they're confirming their election, as Peter talks about in second

30:46

Peter chapter one, then they are going to be among those of whom it is said nothing will separate you from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus.

30:56

There are others who will claim to be Christian, but they're not really. Right. Is that Chris Pratt? We don't know.

31:03

We don't know. But we should pray for the man and that the corruption of Hollywood will not dissuade him from growing in the love of Christ the way that he needs to.

31:13

If he truly is of Christ and says that he loves him and is growing in a knowledge of who he is.

31:18

The fruit will show. That's right. If there's no knowledge of God's word, what he's saying is his

31:25

Christian walk is only being said in vain. If there's no knowledge of God's word and he's not growing in the knowledge of that word, then there is no real fruit being produced from the seed of the word that would supposedly have been planted in his life.

31:41

It's just tough to say or determine one way or another from not knowing the man personally.

31:49

Yeah. You know what I mean? Because when you're there with them, you know what their struggles are and you know that when they do sin, that they're working on that and they're repented of that.

32:02

But we don't know that. We don't see that side of Hollywood at all. Or see that side of his personal life.

32:09

Or that. Yeah. Even. So it's just kind of the thing where we can't really decide from not knowing.

32:16

Yeah. And we don't know what is edited out either. So he could be saying the gospel and we just don't know.

32:23

What got edited out there? Yeah. It's good that he knows the gospel. If indeed he knows it,

32:29

I just hope that the effects of the gospel are going to be further demonstrated in his life.

32:34

Right. This next question comes from Heather in Dell City, Oklahoma. She says, Hi Gabe and Becky.

32:40

I was listening to some older episodes of the What podcast that I had missed previously and you mentioned the incorporation of mindfulness meditation in schools.

32:51

We live in the Oklahoma City metro area. Up until three years ago, our boys were in a more public school elementary school.

32:59

They completed fourth and second grade in public school. I am very happy to say we just began our fourth year of homeschooling.

33:07

They are now in sixth and eighth grades. When the boys were in school, I heard Todd Freel talk about mindfulness in public schools.

33:15

The very next week, my oldest son tells me that the guidance counselor had come into their classroom and led them through a time of meditation.

33:24

I would have never even known it had happened if he hadn't told me. I spoke to his teacher about it and it was supposed to be a way to calm their nerves before state testing.

33:35

I think it is far more common than anyone even knows about because the school does not notify parents.

33:41

It is very sneaky. A few weeks ago, I saw this news report about the start of the school year, about the start of this school year, the 2019 school year for Oklahoma City public schools.

33:53

It has been creeping in even here in red state, Oklahoma. I just thought I would share.

33:58

I really enjoy your program and videos. They have been a huge help to me and I recommend them all the time by his grace and for his glory.

34:05

Heather. Well, thank you, Heather. Here is the news report that she sent me. OK. This is

34:12

Oklahoma's own News Note. Mental health is a major focus of Oklahoma City Public Schools Pathway to Greatness plan.

34:20

So for the new school year, each elementary school will have a full time counselor. News 9's

34:25

Jessie Mitchell shows us how teachers are adding a personal touch to keep students emotionally engaged.

34:32

This year, the district is making a commitment to focus on the emotional well -being of students from counselor to curriculum.

34:38

F .D. Moon is one of the newly converted middle schools where Dr. Gloria Anderson is encouraging teachers to express themselves.

34:45

When we walked in here, it did not look like this. It looked very different.

34:51

So it has transformed. Each teacher is crossing curriculum lines for a well -rounded approach.

34:58

One thing that I like to do is music math. So we know that we have quarter notes and everything else that have values.

35:03

So they're going to be using that to do math equations. And in math class, Deborah Bell will teach her students how to meditate like she does.

35:12

Time out. You just kind of go over there to yourself. You know, you could say angry, but meditation, you know, you focus on something.

35:19

You focus on bringing yourself back to yourself so that you can come back and do the work. Kanita Lee has a similar approach with the

35:26

Get Right Rock. I can say, hey, go rub the rock. And some of them want to pick it up and hold it and even take it home with them.

35:32

Professor and author Marsha Jordan knows the importance of teaching emotional health at an early age.

35:38

If they can pull out what's on the inside of them, find out what's going on with other people and learn how to respect.

35:44

And so that's going to be one of our first assignments. As the students become more emotionally aware, Superintendent Dr. Sean McDaniel says attendance will increase and disciplinary referrals will decrease, resulting in a more successful score district -wide.

35:58

We don't have our fingers crossed. We expect to see the needle move specifically with reading and math scores.

36:04

The district invites families to come meet your teachers and learn more about their individual plans ahead of August 12th.

36:10

From F .D. Moon Middle School, Jessi Mitchell, Oklahoma Zone News 9. How about that?

36:16

Wow. I love the pet the rock. Go over there and pet the rock.

36:22

Pet the little idol. Okay. So I worked with early childhood and the children who were angry, we had a place for them to go and just kind of calm down.

36:33

It was called the quiet corner. And they would go and there were stuffed animals in there, all sorts of soft things so that they can, you know, kind of be separated, but they can kind of cool off.

36:44

Yeah. They were throwing everything. And then they would sneak out of there and go up on top of the little loft that we had and they would start throwing the books because that was the reading loft.

36:54

Right. And start throwing the books at the other kids. When you're angry, you're angry. What are they going to do with that rock?

36:59

They're going to toss it at each other. Yep. Oh, my goodness. That is just a bad idea.

37:06

By the way, Becky has a teaching degree and served on a school board. So she knows a little bit about public education.

37:13

Oh, there you go. Yep. And all the other methods that we've done, like separating a child out and you know, you go sit in the corner, you wear the dunce cap, you face the, you know, face the wall, all this kind of, none of that ever worked.

37:26

No. Why do we think all this Buddhist meditation stuff is going to work? Yeah. I just.

37:33

So Heather mentioned the wretched episode where Todd Freeland talked about mindfulness that was creeping its way into schools.

37:41

He's talked about this several times before. I think that he's had this on a few episodes of Wretched, but I did manage to find a segment of a

37:50

Wretched episode where he was talking about this and the negative effects of meditation.

37:56

Sixty percent of children that are subjected to this meditation actually experience negative effects of it.

38:04

And that's part of the statistics that people don't want to talk about. They just want to talk about the positive things.

38:10

So Todd Freel, reading an article from The Guardian, goes through some of the myths about meditation, this kind of meditation that's being introduced into public schools.

38:22

Meditation studies should assess not only positive, but negative effects.

38:28

They love to tout the positive, shh, on the negative.

38:35

And so we now have from The Guardian, who also picked up the story, good on them, seven common myths about meditation that your child might be, frankly, might probably be taught right now if they go to public school.

38:50

Myth number one, meditation never has adverse or negative effects.

38:57

It will only change your life for the better. That is a complete myth, according to these experts.

39:04

Meditation was primarily designed not to make us happier, but to destroy our sense of individual self, who we feel and think we are most of the time.

39:15

Now, that's what mindfulness was about, losing yourself. What is mindfulness?

39:20

The theology behind it, both in Buddhist circles and in Hinduism, you lose yourself.

39:27

The problem is you. That's your problem. You can't be connected to the divine because your needs and your wants get in the way.

39:35

So we meditate them away. We think them away. I no longer have desires, even though it's a little bit ironic that you're desiring to not have desires, so you can be connected to the great big nothingness.

39:46

That's your problem. You're supposed to lose you. That's what mindfulness is.

39:52

It's not designed to make people happy. It's designed to get you rid of you.

39:59

Myth number two on meditation, that it can benefit everyone. No, no, it doesn't, 60 % negative effects, 60%.

40:09

Myth number three, if everyone meditated, the world would be a much better place. Well, that's what Coke would have you believe.

40:16

That's what Jon Kabat -Zinn would teach you. But research on this subject has serious methodological and theoretical limitations and biases.

40:23

Most of the studies have no adequate control groups and generally fail to access the expectations of participants.

40:32

What was your expectation? Did it reach it? We didn't have any. Did you reach it? I think so.

40:37

Good to go. Myth number four, meditation produces a unique state of consciousness that we can measure scientifically.

40:48

No, no, we can't. The overall evidence is that these states are not physiologically unique.

40:55

Furthermore, although different kinds of meditation may have diverse effects on consciousness and on the brain, there is no scientific consensus about what these effects are.

41:06

Get ready for these anecdotes, again from Dr. Miguel Farias, writing a book,

41:13

The Consequences of Mindfulness, Mindsets, Meditation. Put yoga underneath this umbrella,

41:19

Christian. It's all Eastern. This is Louise. She had taught yoga for more than 20 years, stopping only when something unexpected happened that changed her life.

41:29

And she had chosen to give a presentation about this as part of her assessment on the course called meditation that she took.

41:37

During one meditation retreat, she said, she'd been on many. Her sense of self changed dramatically.

41:44

Somebody brought a conundrum to Deepak Chopra. I'm going nuts. I've been doing the meditation and it's caused me to snap.

41:52

What you need to do is find a song. I'm sorry. I kind of...

41:57

My impression of Deepak didn't quite stay in character.

42:03

You need to listen to some music and this music then will help you to work through what is going on and the change that is happening with your divine consciousness.

42:15

Really? That's what you got? That's what you would say to Louise? She thought initially it must be part of the dissolving experience, getting rid of yourself and your needs and your wants, understanding the real you of the truth that's inside of yourself.

42:30

Still, she couldn't help feeling anxious. Don't worry. Just keep meditating and it'll go away, her teacher told her, but it didn't.

42:38

She couldn't get back to her usual self. It felt like something was messing with her sense of identity, how she felt in her body, the very way she looked at the world and at other people.

42:46

The last day of the retreat was excruciating. Her body shook. She cried and panicked. She continued the following day back at home.

42:53

Her body was numb and she didn't want to get out of bed. Her husband took her to the doctor.

42:59

Within hours, she was being seen by a psychiatrist and she spent the next 15 years being treated for psychotic depression.

43:07

Another paper, 2001, British psychiatrist talks about a 25 -year -old woman who, like Louise, had a serious mental health problem following meditation.

43:17

1992, David Shapiro, a professor of UCLA, Irvine, published an article about the effects of meditation.

43:23

27 people with different levels of meditation experience, he found 63 % of them, that 60 % number again, had suffered at least one negative effect and 7 % profoundly adverse effects.

43:38

Do you know what is going on in your government school? Do you know if your child is being taught this and forced to participate in this?

43:49

Now you do. So, I agree.

43:56

Whenever I'm left to myself, I end up stewing. Yeah, right. So, I mean, what else are you going to think about?

44:02

You're trying to get away from yourself. You're trying to get more connected with yourself.

44:10

It's almost like those teachers were saying a little bit opposite of what Todd Friel was saying.

44:17

It's like they have a different approach to meditation. Well, they have a different expectation of the outcome.

44:23

True. True. I don't know. It's just, I know whenever I'm left to myself, whenever I'm doing something,

44:30

I don't know, mindless like painting a wall or whatever, you know, you just kind of. Your brain goes, you know, it goes to anger.

44:37

It does. I think that's different for everybody, but I'm the same way. Yeah. Because there was a project that I was working on for my wife and I told her,

44:46

I can't work on this right now. I don't like where my mind goes. Right. I was even trying to listen to podcasts. Yeah.

44:52

Me too. I was listening to happy music. I had to make the music so loud that it drowned out my thoughts so that way

44:59

I would focus more on the music because I would still find my thoughts and it wasn't, I wasn't angry whenever I started.

45:06

I didn't have anything to think about. I had so many happy things to think about. Like after I stopped painting and I went and I was like, man,

45:13

I'm happy now. I'm just good. I'm going to go back and paint. And I started painting again. And my mind just,

45:19

I don't know, it was weird. It's strange how your mind works that way sometimes, but yeah. That's why we ought to focus more on God, not on ourselves.

45:27

Focusing more on Christ Jesus. Amen. So I also pulled up an article from the

45:32

Business Insider and they also had an article that talked about the negative effects of mindfulness that's being done in public schools.

45:43

And here were seven of them that they had. Number one, it may prompt negative thinking, which is exactly what you were.

45:49

So the meditation might actually cause you to think negative. Yeah, meditation would be bad for me. And might not leave you feeling so optimistic.

45:57

Number two, your sensory perceptions can even change. What does that mean? It could change your very senses.

46:04

The way that you see, the way that you taste, the way that you hear, smell, and touch.

46:10

Your emotional reaction to those sensory perceptions can change because of meditation and mindfulness.

46:18

Interesting. Number two, your motivation may go right out the window. Well, yep.

46:24

It did. I mentioned that. Yep, it did. That was case with me. I had to walk away too. Number four, you might relive negative memories and emotions.

46:34

You can't trust your own mind. No, you can't. You can't. The scriptures say, he who trusts in his own mind is a fool.

46:41

That's what it says in Proverbs. Yeah. And in Proverbs chapter three, trust in the Lord with all your heart.

46:47

Right. And lean not on your own understanding. Right. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.

46:54

So trying to just kind of disappear into yourself, you're asking for trouble. You're going to avoid.

47:01

Number five, you might experience some physical side effects. I kind of feel like that one goes with number two, though.

47:08

Your sensory perceptions might change. I guess there's some physiological changes or things that can happen.

47:15

Yeah, that's what I took it as. But it says physical as in body. Kind of like how your emotions can affect you physically as well.

47:23

Right. Might cause you to overeat. Right. Or maybe even lose your appetite. Could go the other way.

47:29

Yeah. Insomnia. I suppose that could be what that was referring to. Number six, it might damage your sense of self.

47:37

Thinking negative thoughts? Yeah, sure. And number seven, you may become antisocial.

47:44

Imagine that. See, that's what I'm thinking all of this is stemming from. Is the fact that we're all attached to our phones.

47:50

So we don't know how to communicate with one another. Yeah. And so they're trying to get everybody to calm down and meditate.

47:57

And think about how you want to approach the other person. About the pencil that they dropped on the floor and didn't pick up.

48:04

Or whatever. And it's like, just tell the person. Yeah.

48:09

Why can't you just talk to them? You don't have to go over in a corner and calm down. And then come back and say, hey, can you pick that up? You know?

48:15

Right. So they're being separated. The kids are being separated from everybody else. Yeah. You go in the corner and just sit there and think and meditate.

48:24

Yeah. And you're actually doing the opposite effect. Causing them to become more antisocial.

48:29

Right. Which is going to cause more relational problems. When you then bring them back in with the rest of the group.

48:35

Yeah. So it could have. Oh, you had to leave. Yeah. Could have the complete opposite effect. But that's not what the schools want to explore.

48:41

They want to talk about only the positive effects. Right. And not the negative. I could see that going two ways.

48:47

They either come back and they're like doted on because they had to leave. You know? And they lost control or whatever.

48:52

So you make it a big deal that they were able to come back. Then they want to do it again. B. Yeah, you're giving them that positive reinforcement.

48:59

The bad thing you did, which caused you to be separated, caused you to come back and then get praise for it.

49:05

And so they're going to do that. They're going to go through that pattern again. Yep. And then the other thing is that they would be not necessarily bullied per se, but snubbed maybe for having to go calm down.

49:19

You know what I mean? So the kids would snub them about. Oh, yeah. You have to keep getting separate and go over there and meditate.

49:27

I'm doing just fine on my own. I don't have to go meditate. Yeah. Something like that. So what does the bad?

49:34

What does the scripture tell us about meditation? Psalm 1914. Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight.

49:43

Oh, Lord, my rock and my Redeemer. Psalm 119 15. I will meditate on your precepts and fix my eyes on your ways.

49:54

Psalm 104 34. May my meditation be pleasing to him for I rejoice in the Lord. And it was to Joshua that God gave this instruction.

50:04

The book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it.

50:15

For then you will make your way prosperous and then you will have good success. What should we be meditating on?

50:22

We should be meditating on the word of God. Yeah. You find your mind or your heart going into those negative places, even while you're working or doing something by yourself.

50:31

Start meditating on scripture. Start thinking about scripture and what God's word says and let that be your joy.

50:40

Let that be the attitude or the focus of your heart. Psalm 119 97. Oh, how I love your law.

50:46

It is my meditation all the day. Yes. And the gospel of Jesus Christ. The good news that we are forgiven our sins and we have life everlasting every morning.

50:57

Amen. Yes. Maybe that's why I could finish it the next day because his mercies are new every morning and be where the meditation that the world is attempting to push on our children.

51:11

Now it's astounding how secular our schools try to be, how, how like basically agnostic by default.

51:20

Yeah. And yet this stuff, this very thing that they're trying to introduce to children, even in a place as conservative as Oklahoma is, is actually spiritual.

51:30

This is a spiritualness that they're introducing to kids. There's something theological behind it, whether or not they want to acknowledge that.

51:37

Yeah. And it has its roots in things like Buddhist and Hindu practices.

51:43

They just don't want to acknowledge that, nor do they want to entertain the potential negative effects that it could have.

51:49

Everything we do can only be positive and we could only see higher reading and math scores. If we just teach the kids to meditate, maybe you need to be teaching them reading and math.

51:59

That would be my guess. Yeah. I mean, how, how often do you get them like all in the same place so you can teach them without having to repeat yourself?

52:09

You know, that was just a two minute news report that we got from, what was it, Oklahoma channel nine news or whatever it was, something like that.

52:16

But even though it was just two minutes, we didn't really hear anything about what they were going to be doing with the kids as far as their education was concerned.

52:24

Yeah. All we heard about was this is how we're going to handle some behavioral issues. Well, I mean,

52:29

I kind of get it because they only had two minutes and it was, you know, like that was their topic, but it would have been nice to know a little bit more of how it would balance out with the rest of the curriculum.

52:41

But every grade was getting a counselor. Yeah. That's, I mean, you need

52:46

Paris. Hello. And teachers assistance. And we're cutting back on those people.

52:52

They need parents is what they need. Yes. That too. Parenting at home.

52:58

So Heather, I applaud you for the homeschooling decision that you made.

53:03

Yeah. But if someone is listening, deciding to keep their kids in public school, you need to be no pun intended, mindful of what the school is doing to your kids.

53:16

What are they teaching their kids? What are they introducing to them? What sort of background or history does this, you know, this new thing that they're introducing to your kids have.

53:30

Yeah. It's not new. It comes from somewhere else. There's nothing new under the sun. Right. And do you know what both the positive and the negative effects of this could be?

53:40

Yeah. And do, do your children, have you watched your children enough to know when it's affecting them and what exactly is affecting them?

53:49

So you can jump in and, and go to the teacher and be like, you know, I don't want my child to do this part anymore because it's having a negative effect on at home.

53:59

I mean, sure we all go through grumpy days and everything, but there, there's a pattern.

54:05

Sometimes you can, you can pinpoint what the pattern is and where it's coming from and stemming from.

54:12

And then even you can go to them and say, I want to try taking this out and see if it improves this behavior that I'm noticing.

54:19

Right. And changing something in the pattern so that, you know, hopefully it will kind of narrow it down to what exactly is affecting my child negatively.

54:27

And then also just be really involved in your school and your children's school.

54:34

I know that's kind of making it less of a drop your kid off and then go pick your kid up kind of thing.

54:41

But it's, it's very important to be involved so you can combat what they're teaching them and teach them in the

54:49

Bible. How is this, you know, yes, you're living in the world, but this is where our focus needs to be.

54:54

Right. If your approach to having your kid in public school is drop them off in the morning, pick them up in the afternoon, make sure they do their homework throughout the day.

55:02

You're losing your kid. You are. It's sad. You will lose your child in Isaiah chapter 26.

55:09

You've got a, an enemy nation that is coming to conquer Israel because of the sinfulness of Israel, having rejected

55:19

God rebelled against him and worshiped and served false gods. And yet Israel is being called to repent and come back to the

55:27

Lord in Isaiah 26. We read this. We have a strong city. He sets up salvation as walls and bulwarks open the gates that the righteous nation that keeps faith may enter in.

55:42

You keep him in perfect peace. Whose mind is stayed on you because he trusts in you.

55:49

Trust in the Lord forever for the Lord. God is an everlasting rock.

55:56

Let's close with prayer. Yes. Heavenly father. We thank you again for our time together.

56:01

And I thank you that this could be an encouragement to someone as far away as India who would bring up this program and listen to it on Facebook or through a podcast or through iTunes or however folks are listening to this.

56:15

And I pray that, that what we've been able to provide here is a strong encouragement to get people in the word of God, that they would find their strength and their courage in Christ alone.

56:26

It is in Christ that we have salvation. We have the forgiveness of sins. We have confidence in tomorrow and knowing that whatever happens, nothing will separate us from the love of God.

56:38

That is in Christ Jesus, our Lord Romans eight one for there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ.

56:47

If we are in Christ Jesus, if God is for us who can be against us, we will be delivered from this horrible sinful world into an everlasting and eternal kingdom.

56:58

But while we continue to walk this way, I pray that you would keep us strong and steadfast according to your word.

57:07

May it be the lamp that lights our path and guides us according to your way.

57:14

May it never depart from our mind and from our heart, from our lips. Our eyes are set up upon it and our ears are tuned to it.

57:22

And it is the thing that directs our steps in our paths, our way to you, your eternal kingdom.

57:30

We know it is only by your grace that we are walking in this way. And it is by your grace that we will be kept in this way.

57:38

So help us to be wise according to your precepts. And we pray this in Jesus name.

57:44

Amen. But he introduced himself.

58:50

He said who he was and where he was from in India. Yeah. And he said, I watch all your videos and I listen to your sermons online.

58:59

Oh, that's sweet. And I just wanted to call and tell you how much I appreciate what you do. Oh my goodness.

59:04

And that it was, it was for me, it was very, very touching. Tears welled up in my eyes and it was only 60 seconds.

59:13

It was just 60 second phone call. It's probably very expensive for him. Probably. Yes. Without a doubt to make that call.

59:20

But, but he was so sweet and kind and said, I just wanted to encourage you to keep doing what you do. And you have people who listen to you in India.

59:28

Oh, that is amazing. I shared this with you. Okay. What else am

59:39

I going to say? Oh yeah. Uh huh. I know. I know. Okay. Uh huh. But there, you were, you were so convincing there.

59:45

I really thought that, that, that you were hearing, that you were acting like you were hearing this for the first time.