Interview: Pastoring a Calvinistic Church

Welcome back to Coffee with a Calvinist.

My name is Keith Foskey and I am a Calvinist.

Today is our weekend edition where we every week come together and interview a different person and today we're going to be interviewing Austin Tucker from Grace Point Church and where is Grace Point Church Austin? We're located in Summerfield.

Okay.

We're right outside the villages.

Okay.

Can you give us your web address so if people want to look up your sermons or? That is, we're online at Grace Point.

That's one word spelled for me.

G-R-A-C-P-O-I-N-T-E.

TV as in television.

Don't ask me why I picked dot TV.

It was stupid and I wish I wouldn't have.

Well there's more options for dot TV.

I know that.

I've looked up different ways.

The different suffixes give us more options.

So that's cool.

And you've been there since 2008 correct? Yes sir.

And you have a world's best boss mug I just saw came up.

That is your? One of my teachers bought this for me this year and surprised me with it on my desk and I'm a huge Office fan.

You might want to edit that out.

No that's fine.

I was gonna say it's a Michael Scott mug.

I have my pastor's mug but you have one too that you showed me earlier.

So I'm gonna sip out of my mug while you sip out of yours.

Well today we're going to be talking about the subject of being a minister and being a Calvinistic minister.

Being Calvinist ministers is not always the easiest thing in the world to do.

Sometimes it can be a difficult road to go down and I know that especially early in my ministry being reformed was something that a lot of people didn't understand.

They'd never heard of it.

When they heard me preach a lot of times it was it was fine because it was it was just right out of the Bible.

But when I would say words like election or predestination or when I would speak of the sovereignty of God I would see the bristles come up.

I would see people sort of begin to scratch their heads and there were a few people early on that really took great issue with what I was saying.

And so that's what I wanted to talk to you a little bit about today as a minister who would identify with the reformed teaching on the doctrines of grace.

I want to ask you first how did you become a Calvinist? When did that when did that happen and do you identify yourself as a Calvinist? Maybe I shouldn't.

I do identify as a Calvinist and I came from an independent fundamentalist Baptist background where I was told Calvinism was a four-letter word.

Yes.

And I was told Calvinists don't soul in.

Calvinists don't A, B, and C.

And pretty much everything was in the realm of hyper Calvinism what you would call.

And honestly the road to Calvinism was interesting for me because my pastor set me down when I left to pastor my first church in 2004.

My pastor set me down and gave me a list of 20 things that I shouldn't do.

And on the top of that list was he said never preach through books of the Bible you'll bore them to death.

He said always be careful.

Wow.

And of course I end up taking my pulpit and I find out that I have a that's my niche.

My niche is as exegetical preaching through books.

I just love it.

And so I started doing it.

And first I picked Ephesians.

And by the time I got done preaching through Ephesians you can listen to those old sermons and I would say stuff like this.

God's ordained all things but we have free will.

I don't understand this.

And I would say that in my sermons and and God did a slow.

I was not influenced by any outside source.

It was really a natural progression and it was about four years of saying stuff like that until one day I woke up and went I'm a Calvinist.

Well I tell you what do you still have that list of 20 things that you shouldn't do? I do actually.

That would be that would be great for a future episode just talking about those those 20 things because yeah the first one being don't preach through books of the Bible.

That's funny.

That's funny.

Well and that's cool too that it really was the scripture that brought you to that understanding of the doctrines of grace.

And what was it do you and again you just you kind of just answered this but I'm gonna ask it maybe a little bit more specific.

Do you remember any specific passages that convinced you that that really you said there's just no other way to understand this? Yeah it started in Ephesians.

Ephesians 1, Ephesians 2.

Then at a certain point I dedicated myself to read the Bible because and I've had a lot of people say this to me even my own church.

It's kind of like once they seen the sovereign hand of God they all sudden start seeing on every page of the Bible.

And I started reading through the Gospels and through John and John will slap you in the face with it.

And then the book of Romans and then of course that progressed later on to my entire theology changing because if the Bible's my sole authority I start to question everything in the lens of the Bible.

And so yeah it was it was mostly Ephesians and then probably John would have been second but I think it's a lot for a lot of people who are Calvinistic.

Amen.

Yeah Ephesians 1 is hard to get past it really is.

Yeah absolutely.

Okay so you did say earlier that that you didn't have outside sources but once you once you became or not became but once you sort of settled in that you were feeling like you had joined the Calvinistic camp were there any teachers at that point who were who were mentoring you from afar? I know like for me R.C.

Sproul I always say was the greatest.

I only met him I probably met him three times because he does live near here or he did when he when he when he was alive and but I only saw him like three times in my life but but I still consider him to be a mentor from afar because so much of his writing so much of his preaching and I still if I just want to rest and listen to the word today being preached I just turn on R.C.

Sproul I know I'm gonna get fed and so who is that for you? Honestly at first it was John Piper.

Yeah.

John Piper was one of my very first influences and through him I learned about MacArthur and I learned about Sproul and I learned about Doug Wilson and I learned about through him I learned about all the other guys and including what what's his name that's bad Mark Driscoll.

Oh I read everything that man wrote but I think we tend to gravitate towards personalities that we can identify with a little bit and I think that's one of the reasons why I just I loved Piper he has that that personality I really I like to attach to.

I think because I was raised in independent fundamentalism and it's such a my way or the highway very mean spirited type leadership I just it was nice seeing that loving type pastor and I'm just being honest it wasn't totally intellectual it was somewhat also an attraction to somebody who came off as a loving pastor who's not forcing anything down anybody's throat.

They say that John Piper is the gateway drug to Calvinism.

He is yeah.

You know he is so winsome and and and oftentimes I this is the irony that I've recently seen because I go into Facebook groups and stuff that are reformed and I find that there are people who were turned into Calvinists because of John Piper who now question whether John Piper is truly a Calvinist.

Yeah.

I don't know if you've seen that I don't know it's what they say is he truly reformed and that's the term is he may be a Calvinist but is he really reformed and so that that that is a great sign and I speak as a pastor I think you feel the same way there is an a flood of immaturity and the reform groups online.

Absolutely.

They want to anathematize everybody and nobody's Calvinistic enough and it's kind of like if you don't meet my gold standard you're not truly reformed and whether it be the pedo versus the credos and all the arguments that happen.

Yeah whether you sing the Psalms or whatever.

Yeah yeah yeah.

It can be discouraging.

I have a friend who he was on one of those groups and I was telling him I was asking him something that I had seen and he goes yeah I had to leave the group.

He said I just couldn't handle the immaturity.

I couldn't handle that everything everything's a bonfire everything's a dumpster fire.

You know it's it's it's it can't just be well there's here's something I think.

No you're you know it's it's awful so yeah I agree.

The groups have changed.

The most popular group is probably the one you're talking about online.

When I joined it there was only 500 people in there and they were the Wookiee was the guy who who monitored everything and that was his nickname and some people know who I'm talking about and it grew and it became overran by stagecage Calvinist which is of course a slang for people who want to set everything on fire.

So yes yeah yes the the dreaded cage stage and you know I guess I guess we've all been there in a sense.

I it was you know I was introduced to reformed theology.

I was introduced to Calvinism through through a friend who then turned me on to the scripture to you know they pointed out some things and and I began after I began to see these things in scripture like you did I began to read primarily Dr.

James White was was probably my most influential person and and I've and I've read everything you know you talk about people you've read everything read everything by him been been to several of his debates met him several times and he's a he's a he's a he's a blessing in my life but yeah the the you know the hatred and and and the vitriol and the and the the the the immaturity that's out there is really sad and and you know people get a lot people get a little bit of knowledge and it sometimes make them very dangerous knowledge puffs up yeah yeah all right well moving I have a few other questions I'd like to ask is your church is Grace Point and that sounds like a reformed name is is Grace Point a confessionally reformed church or is it how would you define the church itself okay so Grace Point is a 1833 New Hampshire Baptist Confession of Faith Church okay okay and the the elders made that decision I was here when I came to Grace Point it was a dispensational pastor center and we we made the transition over the coming up here on 12 years to elders about seven eight years ago so the church really just accepted the New Hampshire as its official confession probably about six seven years ago um we chose the New Hampshire because of the freedom in it we are our soteriology our soteriology our soteriological position is very much Calvinistic with that being said I like the New Hampshire because it lays down the most important issues and allows freedom and the open-handed issues if you will and I don't really like that term of speech but you know what I'm saying the important things and it allows for our people to have freedom and I love the 1689 I'm a huge fan of the 1689 but I feel like it dealt with a lot of areas that were secondary issues and as the elders of the church we wanted to deal with the main the keep the main thing the main thing yeah and Hampshire tends to focus on that so yeah we at our church I actually taught through the 1644 confession the first Baptist confession but we're not technically confessional we have a statement of faith that that we wrote but we're not technically we haven't adopted a confession as of yet that may change but but but we haven't yet would you say that do you think there are people in your church who either are opposed to your Calvinism or who are still wondering about it or do you think you pretty much have a have a have a universal acceptance of the doctrines of grace I would say that I don't have any open opposition we did don't get me wrong bad almost angry opposition but honestly right now not everybody would would count himself a Calvinist not everybody would say they agree with all the doctrines of grace but what everybody would say is I love this church because they're faithful to the Bible amen amen that's where they're at cool yeah I would say I'm sure there are people in our church who would not want the label Calvinist and I'm sure there are people in our church who wouldn't even really I don't say they wouldn't understand but wouldn't be able to articulate what it all meant but they love they love the preaching they love the word you know everybody in the church knows I'm a Calvinist yeah and yeah so yeah yeah used to I was a little afraid to use the term but now I'm sort of just I'm I'm I'm I'm steering into the embankment yeah you know if I go off the cliff I'm gonna do it but this is coffee with a Calvinist so there's no question how about visitors when they come to your church do they do you feel like people come in sort of ignorant do people come because they know you're a Calvinist how does that ratio kind of do for you guys honestly every every couple months we have somebody who comes to our church because they found us on founders yep or or they found me online and like that we were confessional the the problem I'm having is and and I'm speaking pastorally we have a lot of stagecagers it's like oh I found a Calvinist Church and then they come and they're expecting either a staunch 1689 style as some the church and they show up and we're not that way we're we're Calvinist but we're not I don't there's there's a different structure to hardcore 1689 churches sure yeah we have I have a dear friend and that's what he is and when people come to that looking when they come to me looking for that I say you need to go there because that's what they are and that that's and I've had several people come and when I find out what they're looking for I'll often go hey pastor Mike over at Olivet and Ocala he's one of my best friends that is a actual full 1689 Church their elders are that and and I'm not in competition with those brothers I want them to be somewhere where they're healthy and where they grow and but most our visitors when they show up it's it's either they love the fact that we're preaching through the Bible or they they don't we're you know it's a 45-minute sermon on average and we're working through books of the Bible so well great amen I know that we have a part of how we met was one of our church members when they go out of town to see their relatives they go to your church and they really love it so and they said they'd make it feels very much like ours so just so you know that's a to me I figure that's that's a as good of a compliment as we could give one another as we probably were similar and in a lot of ways so I appreciate I appreciate that they have a place to go a home away from home as it were so how do you get along with other pastors then you mentioned brother Mike and for me it's brother Shane at Sovereign Grace Baptist Church who who is the more confessional 1689 guy but how about the other non-Calvinist pastors how do you how are you doing with that here's the thing I have a lot of really good friends that are Armenian yep I do I have some really close Armenian pastor friends I have good friends on both sides and again this is this is a maturity thing because you get to the some of these reform groups online and it's like if you're not a Calvinist you're condemning people to hell and and I'm sitting there going wait I thought salvation was by grace through faith I didn't know you had to be a theologian to go to heaven no but I have friends that are on the other side of the aisle but I have arguments and debates with and and it's healthy and I love talking to those guys but my closest friends are all like-minded on the doctrines of grace if I'm being honest and I'm very blessed to have a lot of close friends that are doctrines of grace men do you see do you have have you ever experienced other ministers who are not Calvinistic sort of treating you like the the ten-headed dragon you know for that I'm trying I don't want to go too far in this online because I think it has a place growing up independent fundamentalist I was an independent fundamental King James only dispensational my wife didn't you know own a pair of britches for seven and a half years I came out of their seminary and when I left those circles and became a Calvinist those pastors for the most part disowned me and some of these men were like father figures to me and I love them and and and I think they still love me but it's kind of personal I know they have friends that are like me but it was personal because I was one of their preacher boys and there but you know I I had a young man I'll give you an example had a young man visit our church this past year who he showed up and he lives an hour away married I actually led his wife to the Lord years and years ago they grew up they got married and and they visited the church and it was a blessing to see him in the back with their babies and and and what are you doing here and he told me you know we're looking for a church and this and that and then he begins to tell me you know you have been gone from the church I grew up at and I was a youth pastor seven half years I've been here for what over ten years and I was there for seven years so it's been like 17 years since the beginning he said you know you were used as an example of somebody who falls away from the faith and pastor said from the pulpit you got to be careful who you read who you let influence you because this you know so he said basically you're used as an illustration all these years after you leave and we're talking about one of the largest independent fundamental churches here in this area Wow so well I'm sorry to hear that that's a that's a you know the pastor's a great guy he preaches the gospel I love him I owe him a lot he put me in the pulpit when I was 18 years old you know hired me on staff when I was 19 years old and fundamentalist we do things way too young yeah yeah well one last theological question then we're gonna move to a game because I like to try to make this a little a little fun but one more and this is a fun theological question even though a person might identify themselves as a Calvinist that doesn't necessarily mean that they fall into any particular category when it comes to dispensational covenant or new covenant theology as we know MacArthur is referred to as a Calvinist but he is dispensational Sproul of course was full covenantal covenant theology would be would be classically reformed that most people would refer to as classic reform so when it comes to dispensationalism covenant theology and new covenant theology where would you where would you place yourself and do you think that that's a big deal when it comes to where guys are when it comes to being Calvinist it is a big but it's not a deal-breaker and that's again we're six where our church is in 1833 New Hampshire which gives freedom you can be a leaky dispensationalist as John MacArthur isn't fit in our church me personally I would I'm closest to a 1689 federalist so I'm covenantal but I have some new covenant meetings and I'm still working through them amen yeah and I and and we've had that conversation off-camera and you and I both I think would would have some of the same issues with with the with the covenantalism and and why we would lean new covenant but yeah absolutely awesome all right well we are going to play my game those who have watched and you have watched this is our third interview that we've done you have seen me lose twice I have been a fantastic loser but today I'm gonna be a gracious winner but Austin's gonna try to win and here's how the game rolls it's very simple as pastors one of the things that happens is we quote a lot of scripture and we read a lot of scripture but oftentimes we can't quote for for for book and verse we can't give the the location because we're just we have so much scripture in our mind so what this is is a scripture memory game you have to give chapter and verse to go with it and you can quote it in whatever translation you want you said you were King James guy so you probably will quote mostly in King James and the way it works is when I hit this little button we have 15 seconds to give a Bible verse and then when the person next person gives their Bible verse will it will click and as soon as somebody just starts looking into the clouds and can't figure out where to go next within 15 seconds this will make a funny noise and that will let us know who is the winner so are you ready for this challenge pastor Tucker who's going first I'll go first I'll hit the button I'll say a Bible verse and it's probably the easiest one in the world but but I'm just gonna say it to get us rolling and then I hit the button when I'm done I hit the button and then when you're done I hit the button so I mean I'm no report no repeat verses no repeat verses yeah we got it you got to keep it got to keep it can't just repeat each other okay so are you ready yeah okay in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God John 1 1 in the beginning God created the heavens the earth Genesis 1 1 and the earth was formless and void and darkness was over the face of the waters and the Spirit of God hovered over the face of the deep Genesis 1 2 Amos 3 3 can to walk together except they be agreed for God to love the world that he gave his only begotten Son so that whosoever believed in him will not perish but have everlasting life John 3 16 for God came out into the world to get in the world but that the world through him might be saved John 3 17 right for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Romans 3 23 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ according to the purpose of his will Ephesians 1 5 for by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God not of works lest anyone should boast Ephesians 2 8 all things work together for good to them that love the Lord to them that are called according to his purpose Romans 8 28 for the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord Romans 6 23 as it is written there's none righteous no not one Romans 3 10 all things work together for the good of those who love the Lord and are called according to his purpose Romans 8 28 I said that one already oh did you really yeah oh okay father gives me will come to me and whosoever comes to me I will never cast out John 6 37 no one can come to me unless the father who called me grants it to him oh no unless the father who called me draws him and I will raise him up on the last day John 644 I know there's more in there I feel bad because I feel like I cheated to get the win because I repeated what I didn't realize you had already given that one I guess I wasn't listening closely enough so we may have to call that a draw we'll let the audience decide if that was a draw okay a couple final questions and I'm gonna ask you to close us with a short prayer okay well let let me ask first of all have you seen any spiders on your desk I forgot the words what was it Oh dad gone there's a spider never get under what God has put over you then you'll never be over what God wants to put under you there's a dadgum spider I'm gonna I'm gonna throw that video in that that's gonna be in the interview I'm gonna throw that video in he's like oh my goodness church look I smashed to buy a spider with my Bible I'm sorry I'm sorry church you just saw me look I just killed a spider with my Bible yes and yeah yeah look right here church yeah who's your favorite living Bible teacher and your favorite dead Bible teacher well it would be my favorite dead would be R.C.

Sproul now okay he I just I listen I can go back and listen to him over and over my favorite living is probably James White growing on me ever since I picked up as King James only controversy like six seven years ago I think we just became best friends I think we just became best friends okay very cool very cool well I do like to close out these interviews with a short prayer I want to if you would pray for for our individual churches as we begin to look forward to going back to worship I know you guys are doing an outside service this Sunday is that correct we are going inside but you are amen excellent yeah yeah well let's pray for it I'll have you pray for our churches and then we'll close and you're Sovereign Grace right yep Sovereign Grace family church yep let's go ahead.