January 5, 2023 Show with Nan, on “A Chinese Atheist Pursuing an Acting Career in the United States Finds Eternal Life in Jesus Christ”

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January 6, 2023

January 5, 2023 NAN, an acting coach helping students audition for American & British drama schools, who will address: “A CHINESE ATHEIST PURSUING An ACTING CAREER in the UNITED STATES FINDS ETERNAL LIFE in CHRIST JESUS!”

00:03: Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer
00:11: George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend
00:16: Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
00:23: Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
00:31: Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
00:38: Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
00:50: It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.
00:57: And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,
01:10: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet
01:16: Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.
01:21: This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this fifth day of January 2023.
01:31: And I'm thrilled to have a first -time guest today. She is only going to be referred to as Nan, that's
01:40: N -A -N, and the reason for that should be self -explanatory once I give you her details.
01:49: She's an acting coach helping students audition for American and British drama schools, and she's addressing her testimony,
01:57: A Chinese Atheist Pursuing an Acting Career in the United States Finds Eternal Life in Christ Jesus.
02:05: And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Nan. Hello, everyone.
02:13: Hello, Chris. It's my pleasure to be here. And, well, let's go right into your story,
02:21: Nan. In fact, let me first give our listeners our email address. If you would like to join us with a question of your own for Nan, our email address is
02:30: ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.
02:36: Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the
02:42: USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
02:48: I would also urge you to text or email or call all that you know who may be
02:57: Chinese immigrants to this country, or perhaps they're in other parts of the world, that you want to listen to this live broadcast, and perhaps also those who are evangelizing
03:12: Chinese friends and loved ones, or perhaps just the Chinese in general. They may have a ministry outreach to the
03:20: Chinese. Well, have them tune into this program because I think they will find it quite fascinating and edifying.
03:29: And, in fact, tell everyone you know who is an atheist to listen in, or if they are ministering to atheists as well.
03:37: But, Nan, tell us about your life in China, as far back as you can remember, being raised as a child there.
03:47: Sure. So, I grew up in a small town in the middle part of China, and my parents, they are
03:56: Communist Party members, and our life was quite good.
04:04: I think that's one of the reasons I never really questioned about God's existence, and it worked quite okay until I came to the
04:18: U .S. Well, I know that you have identified yourself prior to coming to Christ as an atheist.
04:33: This is something that you were firmly convinced of before coming to Christ.
04:41: Tell us more about the mindset of atheism that you had in your upbringing and in your general life in China, and even coming to here initially.
04:59: So, I was educated to be a hard worker, to have good virtue, and be kind to people, and we have a lot of Chinese, Asian philosophy, teaches us to be so as well, and it's kind of how we teach ourselves, teach our children to be, and it worked well for some part of when we are thinking about who we want to be, even though it doesn't really explain where we come from and where we will be after we die.
05:47: But for the current life, Chinese philosophy kind of makes sense, and I was quite welcomed and popular by having good personality and good virtue, so I didn't really question why,
06:08: I didn't question about God's existence, and it was fine that I live a life without God.
06:19: Now, it's interesting that you mentioned virtue being a part of your life.
06:26: As an atheist, did it ever occur to you, as Christian apologists often say to atheists when they're having conversations or debates, that an atheist really has no background or foundation or basis to develop an understanding of what is virtue, what is right, what is wrong, what is morality, what is immorality, because if you believe we are just evolved from pond scum and that there is no perfect, righteous, holy, eternal creator, and there is no inerrant scripture or inerrant guide to introduce those living on this planet to what is right and wrong, that an atheist really has no business being critical of what anybody else thinks about that issue of what is right and what is wrong.
07:31: Did that ever occur to you? I know. Now, because I have this
07:37: Christian mentality, I would think, okay, my previous thinking about good virtue didn't bear closer analysis.
07:46: But back then, because, you know, the surrounding people who were around me, and also the way
07:56: I was taught in school, at home, in the society, were all like that.
08:02: Like, good virtue means you do good things, not like checking my real heart.
08:11: So I wouldn't go that far away to say, okay, do I really know what is good virtue or not?
08:19: If that makes sense. Yes. And you have said that you were content not believing in God for a period of your life, perhaps the majority of it, because you are a young woman.
08:34: Yeah. When did that begin to change? When did your curiosity and perhaps your conscience begin to gnaw at you?
08:45: Yeah, I like the word conscience. So as an atheist,
08:52: I kind of gave myself a meaning of living a life is to make a difference.
08:59: So I thought, okay, why am I living this life?
09:04: Because I want to do something for the world. So when I die, at least I did something.
09:10: That was the kind of goal for my life. And I thought theater was a way for me to achieve that.
09:21: So I came to the U .S. I started to have acting training in school.
09:28: And the first year at school, at drama school, what struck me was that I think drama education should really humble us so that we can have compassion for anyone, even for the cleaner, the beggar, anyone.
09:49: But somehow acting training, I felt like so many people
09:55: I saw, acting training makes us become more, I wouldn't, the snobbish word sounds very harsh, but more like, okay,
10:05: I'm doing this because I want to do acting. It kind of loses the connection with the real people and the real world.
10:14: And I started to question why it became like this. Because my intention of doing acting is to be more grounded to life, to people.
10:26: However, while I was doing that, I was off. And I see a lot of people were off.
10:33: Even the whole industry was off. So that kind of gave some, like, opened a crack over there.
10:46: And also, I worked very hard, and I still didn't achieve what
10:53: I wanted to achieve. So there was a huge sense of failure, disappointment for myself.
11:01: And I thought, as long as I work hard, so I could literally not go to sleep and kept analyzing my script, practicing my acting.
11:13: I thought this is the way I can become better. But I found after a long period of trying,
11:23: I felt that way of thinking of myself and work didn't offer me a way out.
11:29: No matter how hard I try, I can drive myself crazy, but there's no way out.
11:37: And I'm thinking, okay, am I going to live a life like this forever? And am I going to teach my children to be like this?
11:44: If being successful is the goal for our life, that's a tragedy.
11:56: Yes, amen. So that kind of added that crack a little wider.
12:05: Oh, and also, the way I talk about having good virtue and working hard, that made me live a good life in China, didn't help me fit in American culture.
12:25: So people are kind of using another system to judge people.
12:33: So what I brought from China didn't work anymore when I was in the
12:39: U .S. So that confused me as well. It's like my old self is not working well in the
12:50: U .S. And I'm trying to find a new way. So I went to the club with my fellow actors.
13:00: I tried to live a life they do, because I thought I was too healthy to be an actress.
13:08: So I tried to pick up their way, which I think helped me become normal.
13:14: Then I felt I was losing myself. So then I was kind of stuck. Going back to my old self didn't work.
13:22: But becoming who they are, becoming what other people are, didn't work as well.
13:28: So I kind of got an identity crisis. I know a teenager probably would have that crisis.
13:38: But it just happened to me in my 20s as well.
13:43: I got this crisis. Yeah. Now what did you mean by you were too healthy to be an actor?
13:51: What does that mean? Because even in acting class, sometimes we need to use our sense of memory.
13:58: And also for modern, if you are familiar with a lot of modern script, modern drama, it's always so dark.
14:13: It's not about kind of normal people's life. It's all about twisted personality, family story.
14:23: And I read many scripts, which
14:28: I mentally couldn't really understand, let alone to act it.
14:35: So I thought, oh, because my life, my personal life was too healthy. I couldn't understand messy people's life.
14:43: So I, yeah. I know it sounds silly. Well, you'd never understand my life because I'm quite a messy individual.
14:54: But going back to China again, what was your concept of Christianity?
15:03: Had you ever met genuine Bible -believing Christians? Had you heard about it somewhere in some form of media or literature?
15:13: How did you become aware of Christianity? And what were your thoughts on it?
15:21: Growing up in my hometown, there was a kind of abandoned church building.
15:27: I think I only ran into once. And it felt a little bit—that building was old, dark.
15:38: So I think I ran out quickly, and I never went back to that building.
15:44: And then after I went to other city for my high school, for my college,
15:51: I think I went maybe several times while I was in college. My American teacher took us, took some of the students to the church.
16:04: So I went there, but I was just kind of—I was more curious about who they are.
16:12: But I never really—I never really heard about the word.
16:18: So it never really touched my heart at all until I came to the
16:25: U .S. I went to a church, the Liberty Church. And I think at that time,
16:34: I started to really get the word into my mind, really to think about, ponder about the word.
16:41: And in China, I didn't have someone
16:47: I know personally who are genuine Christians. Oh, I think—oh, there was one,
16:53: I think. Yeah, one was in Toastmasters. It's a speech club.
16:59: Oh, yeah, they have that here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, the town where I'm broadcasting this program from.
17:05: I went to one meeting of theirs. Yeah, so I think we have—there is a brother.
17:16: He talked some about Christian energy to me, but still it didn't get into my heart.
17:24: Now, what is it like in China in regard to the restriction of or the freedom of personal belief in anything that would be considered religious, spiritual?
17:46: Are there certain forms of Christianity that the government tolerates because it does not challenge anything about their ideology?
17:58: Yeah, so right now in my hometown, every time now when I go back home, I would attend the church in my town, and that church is actually sponsored by our government.
18:13: So that church is—well, you can see it says, Love your country on the wall.
18:19: So that one is registered and is open for public. And after 2018, we have new regulation.
18:33: I think family church was kind of in a gray area before, but after that regulation, family church is regarded as illegal.
18:43: And after COVID, because all the church went online, so new regulation comes as well, like to supervise the online sermon as well.
19:05: So I'm assuming by what you said that you return to this day for visits to China.
19:14: And because from what I could remember from your testimony, you didn't start attending a church until you came here to the
19:23: United States. But now you're talking about this government -run church that you visit in your hometown.
19:30: So you return to China on occasion? I was in the
19:35: U .S. last time from 2014 to 2018. So I was here for four years, and that's when
19:43: I really knew God and accepted God.
19:49: And after that, I went back to China for four years, and now I come back.
19:55: I came back last year in August. Now when you return to China as a reborn believer in Christ, how did you react to this state -run church?
20:08: Did they have the true gospel? Did they just speak a political message that was appeasing to the government?
20:18: What was going on in that worship service, if even you could call it that?
20:23: I have no idea what these churches are like there. Yeah, so the church in my hometown, they would choose a part of Bible, and they make a
20:39: PPT. I think probably they need to submit their
20:44: PPT, their presentation to the government first to let them know what they are going to do for this week.
20:50: And what is PPT? I'm sorry. Oh, sorry. PPT is a presentation. Okay. Yeah, the
20:57: Microsoft presentation. I think they were quite biblical.
21:06: They were talking about the Bible verses. They didn't mention a very sensitive topic, like, oh,
21:23: Jesus will come back soon, this kind of area. But more like, okay, we need to love people,
21:30: Bible said something, or we need to rely on the
21:37: Lord, so they will give Bible verses as well. So even though they are sponsored by government, I still think the church in my hometown, they were doing fine following the
21:48: Bible. Now, do you know why a communist nation, a communist dictatorship like China, would even desire to have churches that they themselves run?
22:03: Is it to offer enough freedom to the people so that they don't overtly rebel?
22:11: Or what is the reasoning? Do you know what is the reasoning? Yeah, yeah. In my opinion,
22:17: I think there are at least two reasons. The first one is they know they couldn't remove all the
22:24: Christians. Like, I think even at a very early time, there were so many
22:33: Christians start to speak up, and they knew they couldn't remove all of them.
22:41: So instead of trying to take them away, why not offer a place which are sponsored by the government, but also supervised by them to let them to worship over there?
22:58: And the other reason, I think they probably, they know we are not, we wouldn't do something harm for the most of the part for them.
23:10: And I think they know Christianity are actually trying to have, like they teach
23:18: Christianity to teach people to be good. So at this part, I think they know. And also, you know, by the constitution, it says we have freedom to believe in any religion.
23:34: Really? In China, they have that in their constitution? In our constitution, yes, we have freedom to believe in any religion.
23:44: That's why Buddhism is allowed as well in China. Was this always the case after the communist control of China took place?
23:56: I think so. I think since the beginning of the Republic of China was founded in 1949, by constitution, if I'm not wrong, by constitution, but you know, people will break constitution, and they will give you any other reason to say maybe, oh, your religion is not following the rules.
24:16: They probably will use that reason to put some people in prison.
24:22: But by constitution itself, it says we have freedom to believe in religion. But if you want to be a communist party member, you can't have any religion.
24:35: And Marxism is what you need to believe. Really? So they would not permit a card -carrying member of the communist party to be anything but an atheist?
24:47: Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I think the precondition to become a communist party, because you need to feel in the form of religion.
24:57: If you want to join the party, it needs to be non -religion. Really? That's interesting.
25:03: And of course, whether they call it that or not, atheism and Marxism are religions.
25:10: They're just false religions. People try to dance around that by claiming that they're not religions, but every ideology is a religion, whether it's identified that way or not.
25:24: But we have to go to our first station break right now. Sure. If anybody, again, would like to join us on the air with a question for Non, please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country.
25:38: Residents only remain anonymous. If your question involves a personal and private matter, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.
25:46: C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. And don't go away.
25:51: We'll be right back with Non right after these messages from our sponsors. I'm Dr.
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39:25: We're now back with Nan. We are referring to her only as Nan since she is or was a
39:34: Chinese atheist who was pursuing an acting career in the United States, and she found eternal life in Christ Jesus.
39:42: She is an acting coach helping students audition for American and British drama schools.
39:47: And if you have a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.
39:54: Before I go to any of our listener questions, Nan, I'd like to go back even further in your life to when acting became something of great interest to you.
40:06: What kind of acting were you able to see and enjoy and experience in China?
40:15: Did you experience a lot of Western acting, American acting, or was it more exclusively
40:21: Chinese? Tell us about that. For movie, I think they filter some of the movies as well, but most of the world movies are accessible in China.
40:36: Believe it or not, even before I become a Christian, my favorite movie is Shawshank Redemption.
40:44: Yeah, very, very good movie. Very excellent movie. So we are able to watch those kind of movie.
40:52: And for me, when I was very young, I watched a movie. I didn't even know the movie's name, but I remember it was about a black guy who are trying to be a diver in the ocean.
41:10: Oh, yeah, I saw that with William Gooding Jr., I think his name is.
41:16: Cuba Gooding Jr., I'm sorry, not William. Cuba Gooding Jr. and Robert De Niro, I believe, was.
41:23: I don't know. I didn't know English, but I just remember that moment I was watching that movie.
41:29: I was so inspired by their spirit, like their determination, their perseverance just touched me so hard.
41:38: And I was thinking, I want to do this kind of acting for people as well to inspire them.
41:44: So that's somehow kind of like I have this seed of acting planted in my heart.
41:54: And I'm assuming that in spite of the fact that China is a communist nation, that you are free to travel in other parts of the world, in the
42:08: West and so on, as you are now doing here in the United States. Yes.
42:13: It seems to be a lot less restrictive than the former Soviet Union was. Yeah, I'm free to go anywhere.
42:25: And well, let me start taking some of our audience questions because hopefully they've been waiting patiently.
42:35: We have Ronald in eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who asks, how did your family react to your conversion to Christianity?
42:46: Well, at the beginning, yeah, of course they would think I was brainwashed by Western cultures.
42:55: Wow. I think regardless of religion,
43:01: I think country, you know, at a country level somehow there is a hostility to each other.
43:14: So like here, the information you know about China was not true as well.
43:22: And the same for China, in China, like the information we got from, we got information about the
43:29: U .S. was quite, the truth was twisted. So we would think, okay, because we are influenced by Western culture, that's why we would think in other ways.
43:43: So yeah, at the beginning, my parents were reacting in that way. But then they say the change on me, especially, they can feel related to what
43:55: I tell them about what Bible says, like love, forgiving, grace.
44:03: They didn't think there was any wrong about this issue. Yeah. And so now
44:14: I think they are okay about, because they didn't say there is any harm.
44:22: But I was thinking if one day I, my life was, my life is threatened, or if I put in,
44:33: I'm put into jail because of my faith, that will probably have a blow on my parents.
44:44: But right now, because nothing really harming happening on me, so they are fine. And they agree with what we say, what
44:50: I tell them about Bible, and they think what Bible says are quite good.
44:57: Now, what would cause the authorities to arrest you for your faith?
45:03: What would be the demonstrable activity that you are involved in, which would be a fruit of your
45:12: Christian faith that would cause the government officials to say, oh, now you've crossed the line.
45:19: Now we've got to silence you, arrest you, et cetera. What would be those issues? What would be those issues?
45:27: I can only talk about some simple reason, like if they have some rules to say you should join in the registered church.
45:45: But if I insist on joining other church, which may do something against with their rule,
45:58: I would say that could be the reason, because I didn't follow their rule.
46:09: Now, when you were saying earlier that in order to be a member of the Communist Party, you would have to identify yourself as an atheist when you fill out the membership form, does the government treat people differently who refuse to become members or just do not become members by virtue of the fact that they are
46:31: Christian? You mean for party members who are
46:36: Christian, who are non -Christian? Well, I'm saying what is the benefit for a citizen of China to become a member of the
46:45: Communist Party? And what would be the negative side if you say, well,
46:51: I can't become a member because I'm a Christian, and one of your rules, as from what you were referring to before, is that you have to be an atheist.
47:00: Okay, so that's all personal choice. Like I didn't choose to join in the party, but I have classmates who choose to join in the party.
47:10: And for a lot of government position, you need to be in the party so that you can get the job and you can get promoted.
47:22: So that's the, if we call it as benefit. That's kind of the way you do it.
47:32: So you're not restricted for many of the benefits of life in China by virtue of not being a member of the
47:41: Communist Party? I'm not. Yeah. And I think we have,
47:47: I think, I think we have equal rights with other people.
47:53: Now, is it just Christians? Or, you know, we hear about the
47:59: Uyghur Muslims being persecuted there. Perhaps this is not something that's commonly known amongst those who are...
48:08: Again, by constitution, I just double -checked it. By the constitution, number 36, it says we have religious freedom.
48:24: So for the persecution you talk about, I actually don't know the deep reason why they got persecuted.
48:33: But, you know, the news could be run by the news side because there are some foreign force about separating the country.
48:43: Because it's complicated, I think, the issue. It's not just a religious issue. It's involved with the territory.
48:51: Many people are involved in that issue. So I think it's hard to say it's just because of a religious reason.
49:04: And from me, from what I experienced, I have enough freedom, to be honest, in China.
49:13: Okay. We have Cindy in Findlay, Ohio, who says,
49:20: Do the Christian churches in China that you are aware of preach repentance and trust in Christ for salvation?
49:28: Do they teach that we are sinners in need of redemption? That's an excellent question because, obviously, that places the situation of what is being proclaimed by the government -run churches there.
49:50: And are you free to tell someone in China, if they are an atheist, that they will be damned without trusting in Christ as their
50:00: Lord and Savior? They will be what? Are you free to tell an atheist, for instance, in China, that they will be damned without Christ?
50:11: They will be eternally damned. Uh -huh. I am free to say so.
50:19: And, yeah. And for as to if the church talking about repenting and because the church
50:33: I was in China is actually a family church. So I visited the state church.
50:42: I mean, the church is responsible, is sponsored by the government. I visited there several times.
50:52: I think I can ask because I have these pastors contacting, ask if they teach those things.
51:00: But the church I was in, they teach so. We are very aware of what
51:07: Bible says about saying repent. Now, did you say earlier that the family churches are illegal, though?
51:16: I did. Yes, so they're more free. Not free according to the government, but they, in their own consciences, are free to preach whatever they believe the
51:30: Word teaches from the pulpit. Family church, yes. Yes. Okay.
51:36: And we are going to our midway break right now. If anybody has a question, as Cindy had and others, please send it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com,
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52:05: And this is the longer than normal break, folks, so please make use of this time wisely.
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53:48: Have you noticed the gap that exists between the Sunday morning sermon and the Sunday school classroom or the small group study?
53:56: So often we experience great preaching from the pulpit, but when it comes time to study God's Word in those smaller settings, well, let's be honest, it leaves a lot to be desired.
54:07: It seems like it is nearly impossible to find good curriculum out there today that is true to the
54:12: Word of God and is built upon sound doctrine, much less it's hard to find curriculum that will actually teach people how to study the
54:19: Bible. Hi there, my name is Jordan Too, and I am the executive director of the Baptist Publishing House.
54:26: Our ministry is dedicated to providing local churches with sound Bible study resources.
54:32: Our quarterly curriculum is titled The Baptist Expositor, and for good reason.
54:37: We are Baptist, and we exegete the scriptures. If you want to have a curriculum that teaches your people how to study the
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54:50: May God bless you. It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.
55:09: Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,
55:17: Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in a tie in County Kildare, Ireland, going back to 2005.
55:27: One of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio,
55:34: Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, are largely to thank, since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.
55:43: Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.
55:49: Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.
55:55: Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the
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56:23: Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity. For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit
56:31: HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com. That's HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com.
56:36: Or call 678 -954 -7831. That's 678 -954 -7831.
56:45: If you visit, tell them Joe O 'Reilly an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener from Itoi in County Kildare, Ireland, sent you.
57:02: When Iron Sharpens Iron radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the
57:11: New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
57:19: Iron Sharpens Iron radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the
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59:49: Please visit us at truthloveparent .com. Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,
01:00:08: Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus. We are rural and urban, and we are always about the message of Jesus.
01:00:17: Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following Christ.
01:00:25: Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959. We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world.
01:00:39: Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future. Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.
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01:01:20: Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.
01:01:25: Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support
01:01:31: Iron Sharpens Iron radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our
01:01:47: Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.
01:01:53: If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some
01:02:07: Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.
01:02:17: Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.
01:02:25: This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our
01:02:30: Sovereign Lord God, Savior and King Jesus Christ today and always.
01:02:43: Hi, this is John Sampson, Pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the
01:02:51: Arn Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the
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01:03:15: This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.
01:03:21: Knowing this, it's up to us as members of the Body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.
01:03:28: I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting
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01:04:04: Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,
01:04:15: Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.
01:04:22: It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word and to enthusiastically proclaim
01:04:39: Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.
01:04:46: I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.
01:04:55: For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net that's hopereformedli .net
01:05:05: or call 631 -696 -5711 that's 631 -696 -5711
01:05:16: Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said
01:05:37: Give yourself unto reading The man who never reads will never be read He who never quotes will never be quoted
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01:05:57: Prince of Preachers to heart The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world
01:06:09: Since its beginning in 2001 Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered,
01:06:15: Christ -exalting books for all ages We invite you to go treasure hunting at Solid -Ground -Books .com
01:06:22: That's Solid -Ground -Books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from Solid Ground Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio And always remember folks make
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01:07:47: James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries at Solid -Ground -Books .com purchased frequently, purchased generously always mentioning that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Before I return to our guest today whom we are referring to as merely non and that is because she was a
01:08:07: Chinese Atheist pursuing an acting career in the United States who found eternal life in Christ Jesus currently an acting coach helping students audition for American and British drama schools before we continue that discussion
01:08:21: I just have a couple of very important announcements if you really love this show folks you look forward to it every day you benefit from the guests and topics we cover you share the free downloadable
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01:10:54: Christ honoring biblically faithful theologically sound doctrinally solid church no matter where on the planet earth you live
01:11:01: I have extensive lists spanning the globe of biblically faithful churches and I may be able to help you find a church near you like I have done with many people in the
01:11:13: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience all over the world so if you are in that predicament where you are not a member of a biblically faithful church or you love someone who is homeless spiritually send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail dot com and put
01:11:29: I need a church in the subject line that's also the email address where you can send in a question to a
01:11:35: Chinese Atheist a former Chinese Atheist who was pursuing an acting career in the
01:11:41: United States who found eternal life in Christ Jesus that's chrisarnsen at gmail dot com and before I go to any listener questions
01:11:50: Nan I remember I forgot to respond with a question when you said just as in China there are twisted teachings about what life and what the ideology is like here in the
01:12:12: United States and in the West just like that is a reality in China where the truth is twisted that occurs here in your opinion about what
01:12:23: Americans are told about China can you be more specific about some of the things that we here wrongly believe typically about China so I grew up in a family that a lot of our relatives are working for the government they are they are trying to do their work you know for my grandparents generation they were very poor people were starving and in my generation
01:13:04: I can get the help to come to the United States even though we would say okay there in terms of freedom things can be should be criticized in China but when
01:13:20: I look at what I experienced and what I my parents my grandparents experienced some of the things are really getting much better than before that's why
01:13:31: I wouldn't you know say hey when my grandma always say oh we need to be thankful for Chairman Mao I wouldn't say hey you don't know what he did because he because she experienced the improvement of her life so I think like the coin have two sides sometimes the
01:13:51: US is emphasizing too much on one side and ignore the other side which can create a certain stereotype and well thank you for that and we do have
01:14:08: CJ from Lindenhurst Long Island New York who asks
01:14:14: I'm assuming that the leftist actors and actresses here in the
01:14:21: West may be just as hard to reach with the gospel as communists in China can you tell us about the comparison between opening up about your faith and evangelizing those that you know and love who are atheists in China and those that you know who are in your field of acting who may even hate
01:14:42: Christ and Christianity Wow well that's a thanks for the question you know the the the the person who introduced me to Christ was was a actress we both of us were taking up acting in Boston and one day she looked at me she saw how hard I was working she looked at me she said
01:15:10: Nan do you know you don't have to work so hard all you need to do is to give it to give it to Lord and I look at her in my brain
01:15:20: I was I was thinking is she insane like I I don't need to work hard and just give it to someone
01:15:26: I don't know so but then I part of me say okay she's she's so good she she really keeps a good dignity in our acting class and I I told myself she means something even she means something more than what
01:15:44: I what I thought so after both of us went back to the to New York I started to attend her church so she is she's an actress but yes a lot of other actors and actresses
01:15:57: I know here they are they are not Christians and and yeah and they are very driven by their personal their their ambitious their their selfish ambitious so I so was
01:16:18: I and in terms of un -Christians in China because for the church are not so easy accessible for the majority population so yes by that level the the it's not easy for them to hear
01:16:40: God's words but I think he's really doing the work in China like how how
01:16:48: I knew him and through him I can tell my parents my family my friends and and there are also a lot of underground churches are really growing largely so by that level
01:17:05: I think God is working as the plan
01:17:12: Now what was forgive me for asking you to repeat this what kind of churches are growing largely
01:17:19: I I think I said underground oh okay and those are the ones that would be more in alignment with family churches right who are really trying to remain faithful to the scriptures no matter what the cost may be we have
01:17:38: Susan Margaret from Dauphin County Pennsylvania who asks
01:17:44: I don't know how familiar you are with reformed theology within Christianity but I was wondering how prevalent that is or scarce in China In China okay so I am in a reformed church now
01:18:03: I'm in OPC yeah and before OPC I went to two extreme not two extreme churches
01:18:15: I tried two directions because I found here church will either go very like like the modern church non -denominational church where we where we don't listen to God's words like strictly like they will use one or two
01:18:39: Bible verses and then use the worldly psychological kind of explanation but then there's the other direction which is like a kind of controlling one so I went to both at the very beginning
01:18:50: I was in the church and I felt I was not fed very well and also so I left but then
01:18:55: I stumbled into stumbled into Jehovah's Witness and because they are having
01:19:01: Bible Bible classes every week and they are reading reading
01:19:07: Bible so I kind of went two kinds and then now I mean a reformed church where I think is keeping a very good balance like you have this system to take each other accountability but at the same time it's not controlling it's more it's more following what
01:19:29: Bible talks about how a church should be and in terms of China when
01:19:34: I went back last time to China I tried to find priest
01:19:42: OPC as well but it was not very common but there was
01:19:48: Baptist church Trinity church yeah but also a lot of non -denominational churches well thank you for that excellent question
01:20:00: Susan Margaret we have Robert in Westchester County New York and Robert asks what are some typical excuses that Chinese atheists or non -Christians have in rejecting
01:20:20: Christ so when
01:20:28: I think when life is okay it's easy to just live their own life because it seems like it can nothing has to do with God it's like how
01:20:45: I was before when my life was okay why I need to believe in God and then when
01:20:52: I realized there is a problem when I really see my own sin oh the other one is the excuse is that in terms of sin because people will still think will still think about good action they think if they have good action it means they are good people and now you tell them you are born with sin it's hard to accept that it's like it's hard for us to admit our own faults it's it's just hard for for people or non -Christian to to do that yeah
01:21:36: I saw the other one I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I want to live.
01:23:10: And now all of a sudden, now here is a God asking me to give up what I want to do.
01:23:17: It's like the fear of, I'm going to lose myself.
01:23:24: I'm going to become a servant for someone. There is that kind of fear, I think, in a lot of atheists' hearts.
01:23:33: We have, let's see, Bobby in Hartsdale, New York wants to know how much of the true biblical gospel and Christian theology was available in China through different forms of media and the internet?
01:23:52: And let me add to that myself, literature, books, and so on. Okay, so I think before we can still purchase
01:24:04: Bible online, but I think for the recent year, it seems like you can't get it online.
01:24:11: You can't get it for public website, but you can still find some ways to purchase them.
01:24:19: But for more like literature books, for example,
01:24:25: The Pilgrim's Progress, I even got one before I came here.
01:24:31: So for that kind of literature, which has Christian beliefs, that one is still accessible.
01:24:39: That's interesting because that was written by a man who was imprisoned for his faith. Yes, yes.
01:24:45: How about more modern, reformed authors that are solid?
01:24:51: I think that the majority of professing Christians writing books today are writing horrible books, but I think the majority are.
01:25:01: But as far as good, solid, reformed books of today, is there anything available over there? Yes. We even had a small group study about Tim Keller's The Meaning of Marriage and The Meaning of God and The Meaning of Work.
01:25:18: So that kind of book we can buy online. Right now, that's the only one that you could think of as far as a reformed author.
01:25:32: Because I didn't read by other books, so I couldn't say for other books. Mm -hmm.
01:25:38: And let's see here. We have an anonymous listener, and the anonymous listener says,
01:25:49: I don't even feel the freedom to open up about my personal faith in Jesus Christ in my own home here in the
01:25:58: United States because of the hatred I experience from my own family.
01:26:04: What advice do you have in regard to enabling people, by God's grace, to be more bold and honest regardless of the outcome when it comes to Christianity?
01:26:19: Paul, I'm sorry about what you experienced. I think it must be very, very hard for you.
01:26:27: That's why you couldn't really open up yourself. So far,
01:26:33: I really haven't been treated badly because of my faith. But the way
01:26:38: I approach people in China was I emphasize the part that I think they can understand.
01:26:46: Like when I talk with my parents and even my grandparents, I emphasize the part of love.
01:26:54: I didn't mention, you know, I didn't mention, like, if you don't know
01:27:04: God, you go to hell. I didn't mention that. More for, like,
01:27:09: God will help me to be more loving, be more tolerant. I will tell them how
01:27:18: I experienced from God. Even when I was in the church in my hometown where we have other
01:27:26: Chinese governor was there as well. I would open it to say, hey, I'm a Christian, and Christianity helps me a lot to know my life and the world.
01:27:38: So I would emphasize the part I think they can relate to as well. We have
01:27:44: Miguel in Barnstead, New Hampshire.
01:27:52: He has a couple of questions. I'll read the first one to you first, obviously. I read much in the media about Christian persecution in China.
01:28:03: Is this not a prevalent, is this not as prevalent as what's being reported about China?
01:28:10: Or perhaps it may be similar to instances we see here in the United States. Can you share examples of Chinese persecution in China you may have witnessed?
01:28:30: I was in a church in Beijing, and it's a family church.
01:28:39: And we would have some police kind of walking around that building, but they didn't really do anything.
01:28:50: And then after COVID started, our church had to give up that building, and we started to have sermon online.
01:29:02: But then we started to rent different places, locations. So from where I was before,
01:29:15: I haven't really witnessed people who were persecuted.
01:29:23: Yeah, but I read a book. There was one, if you want to know more, probably you can read, it's called
01:29:29: The Heavenly Man by Brother Yun. The Heavenly Man?
01:29:36: Yeah. And by who? I'm sorry, I didn't hear the author. Y -U -N
01:29:41: Yun. Oh, it's a Chinese author? Yes. But that was not relevant.
01:29:47: That is not prevalent. That was like in the 1980s.
01:29:57: So for current situation about persecution, I personally haven't really witnessed.
01:30:06: Now, what do those in what you have already described as illegal churches, the family churches, the underground churches, what have they said to you, if anything, about what they believe may happen to them if the government becomes aware of what they're doing?
01:30:25: What kind of threat do they believe is imposed upon them?
01:30:32: What kind of consequences do they? So first I've heard the
01:30:38: Christian will be invited to have a tea with them.
01:30:45: Invited to have a what? I'm sorry? To drink tea with them. Oh, okay. Which means they were kind of like, okay, talk with you a little bit and kind of give you a little bit warning or reminding something.
01:31:03: And yeah, they will not, from what I heard, they will really talk with you a little bit.
01:31:11: Not like, okay, go to your home and take you away. So they would talk with you and see how things go with you.
01:31:25: And if somebody persists, though, in disobeying the government, I'm assuming they would be arrested, wouldn't they? I don't really know, to be honest.
01:31:33: So many, like the persecution I heard, it was actually when
01:31:40: I was here in the US, I didn't really hear that much when
01:31:45: I was in China. And I'm not sure what I heard here, how much of them are true.
01:31:54: So yeah, so I didn't, I don't think I'm qualified to answer this question. And also people around me, they didn't experience that as well.
01:32:04: But there were some of them, several of them were invited probably to have a tea. And what happened when they came back after the tea?
01:32:14: Did they just continue as they were already doing? Okay.
01:32:20: Yeah, you continue to their original life. Um, Miguel has a second question.
01:32:27: My wife has befriended a co -worker who recently emigrated from China and is living with her family already here as citizens.
01:32:36: The co -worker is not a Christian. What advice can you share regarding ways my wife can open up to her co -worker about Christianity?
01:32:46: Yeah, I think, yeah, it's a very good question. I think let them experience love is very important because we talk so much about love.
01:32:59: When we are blinded, like I was blinded, talking sometimes didn't work very well.
01:33:08: It works, you know, we know him by words. Yes, it is true. But also, when
01:33:15: I really experience physically, emotionally, psychologically, experience God, that's where things really can change.
01:33:24: So let them experience God's love, God's glory, and let them see what it looks like to be a light, to be salt.
01:33:36: Well, really, because they will know how different your presence is, and that will be in your heart.
01:33:46: They will remember that until maybe one day when timing is good. Yeah, things can be changed.
01:33:53: Well, we have to go to our final break. It's going to be more brief than the other breaks. But if you do have a question that you'd like to ask,
01:34:01: I would recommend strongly that you send it in as quickly as possible, because we are rapidly running out of time.
01:34:07: Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.
01:34:15: As always, give us your first name, at least your city and state and your country of residence. Don't go away.
01:34:21: We'll be right back with non right after these messages from our sponsors. I'm Dr.
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01:43:29: where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. Welcome back, and before I return to my interview with Nan, I do have a very exciting announcement to make.
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01:45:18: But we are back now with Nan, and our email address again is chrisorenson at gmail .com.
01:45:25: If you have a question, chrisorenson at gmail .com. I'd like you, before I go to any listener question, to have a couple of uninterrupted minutes where you really bear open your heart and you give our listeners what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before they go before we go off the air.
01:45:54: I want to make sure that the most primary and essential things you would like to say to our listeners is heard before we go into too many listener questions.
01:46:08: Yeah, I was actually thinking about the previous question, how to approach to their
01:46:15: Chinese co -worker who is an atheist. I think to know that person's problem, like what is where that person's mind is stuck in terms of believing
01:46:31: Christianity, and try to know that that will help to talk more about God to that person.
01:46:42: Because for me, I met a brother, he really helped me a lot in terms of my logic of thinking of God, because I was stuck there.
01:46:54: And he spent hours and hours, just helped me to kind of see, okay, here this is where your mind rested over there.
01:47:03: But he would explain to me, because it's not like I didn't want to believe, it's just the way
01:47:10: I was educated for so many years. I became a Christian when I was 27.
01:47:16: So I lived in one way for 27 years. And all of a sudden, if you want me to change, it was like my mind, my brain was bombed.
01:47:29: So I think the way to approach for non -Christian is to know their issue, where their mind gets stuck.
01:47:39: Yeah, and also, I also want to emphasize about grace for one of the questions we touched.
01:47:47: Like, I was talking with a friend of mine, she's working for UN as a translator, the day before yesterday.
01:47:54: She's a Chinese as well. She believes in Buddhism, and she has a very good conscience about the bad part of her heart.
01:48:04: She remembers all the moments she chose from evil and good, and she knew her instinct will just let her to choose the bad choice.
01:48:14: But then the way she solved the problem is to try very hard to keep alert, to always better herself, because she thinks there are saints who can achieve that.
01:48:29: But I said to her, you know, one of the things I experienced through God is grace.
01:48:35: I told her I tried your way, but that way didn't work on me, because I found no matter how hard I beat myself,
01:48:43: I will be either very proud of myself or thinking very low of myself, if I try things in my way, if I try to achieve it by myself.
01:48:53: But if I receive God's grace, I will not have those two extreme feelings, either being proud or feeling horrible about myself, because I achieved that by God's grace.
01:49:08: So I think this is another thing we can tell people as well. Amen. Yeah, I have heard from people who were in either
01:49:20: Christian denominations that are not Reformed, or even in cults, that place them on a works righteousness treadmill, and they wind up very often being so burned out, knowing that they could never do enough to earn
01:49:44: God's favor, that many of these people just abandon religion altogether.
01:49:50: And it's interesting, because many of these groups and religions teach people that without that fear, that constant fear that you drill into people's minds, you're going to lose them, because they're not going to be afraid of abandoning that religion.
01:50:15: But they wind up abandoning it anyway, because they know they can never satisfy the requirements of those religions.
01:50:23: So none of us can satisfy what the law demands.
01:50:30: And that's why our Savior, Jesus Christ, the God -man, the only perfect spotless lamb, the only perfectly obedient and righteous substitute that we could have, died for us on Calvary.
01:50:44: That's the very reason He had the wrath of His own
01:50:50: Father poured upon Him on the cross. And I praise God for that every moment that I have the opportunity.
01:50:59: We have, let's see here, I was just looking at it moments ago.
01:51:07: We have, oh, Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania. And Joseph says, do you miss
01:51:16: China enough to return there permanently, or are you enjoying life as a Christian too much here in the
01:51:22: United States? Oh, I will go back, even this time when I came to the U .S.,
01:51:27: I know I will go back to China after I finish my education program, because I think that's the door
01:51:38: God opened for me to do in China. Last time when
01:51:44: I went back China as an actress, and somehow teaching just kind of approached to me.
01:51:54: So many people were asking me to teach people. So, and I say,
01:52:02: I can do, what I do in China actually can make more, kind of make more difference over there, because here in the
01:52:11: U .S., your education system is already quite developed. But in China, even
01:52:18: I only do a little bit, it can really help a lot for students. Well, the education here may be developed, but it's also very corrupt.
01:52:28: I know. I didn't think about it that seriously. But, you know, now studying
01:52:34: NYU, I'm exposed in so many different way of looking at education.
01:52:43: And how is your faith received at NYU? I mean, that's known as a extremely left -wing institution.
01:52:55: You know, and I have seen in my life as a Christian, I don't know if you have witnessed this, but left -wing institutions tend to be more gracious to those that are not white
01:53:12: Anglo -Saxons who are Christians than they would be towards someone like me.
01:53:20: They tend to be more tolerant to ethnic and racial minorities who express their faith.
01:53:29: Is that what you are experiencing or not? Exactly. We have so many classes talking about creating an inclusive classroom, which means we need to be open to every kind of situation, you know, homosexuality, transgender, different race.
01:53:55: So, yeah, you are right about it. And yeah, because it sounds quite, if I'm not a
01:54:04: Christian, I think I will think, oh, wow, it sounds so lofty.
01:54:11: Like, wow, you are open for everyone. But now I understand it from another perspective of the education development the
01:54:24: U .S. is actually experiencing now. Yeah. We have a question from RJ in White Plains, New York, who wants to know, have you ever become aware of a government official or at least a high -end government employee with authority who is actually secretly harboring a
01:54:44: Christian faith? You mean in China? I'm assuming that's what the listener meant.
01:54:52: Yeah. I'm not aware of that, yeah.
01:54:59: So you've never even heard anecdotally about that occurring?
01:55:06: Or there might be even people who are turning a blind eye to certain things just to protect
01:55:12: Christians or anything like that? You know, my parents are working for the government, and my aunt and other family members are.
01:55:24: I think I didn't hear about such things. Sorry.
01:55:31: Oh, that's okay. I'm just curious. And, well, we don't have time for any further questions from the audience, so I'll just ask a final one of my own.
01:55:40: How would you like us to pray for you? Oh, thank you so much. Yeah.
01:55:50: I wish my relationship with God can be strengthened, my understanding of Him can be more expanded, so when
01:56:04: I go back, no matter what happens, I can still be rooted firmly in Him and really become a vessel for Him to do the plan
01:56:23: He has for us. Well, it's been an honor and privilege to have you on the program.
01:56:32: You're a delightful Christian woman, and I hope I have the opportunity to share fellowship with you and those
01:56:40: Christians who are expressing their hospitality and love toward you there, or here,
01:56:49: I should say, in the United States. And I look forward to receiving updates from you.
01:56:57: Just out of curiosity before we go, I know that you're an instructor when it comes to acting.
01:57:02: Are you pursuing more of the acting career as your own livelihood, here and when you return to China, as far as being an actress?
01:57:14: I'm more doing for like an education part now. I have theater in China.
01:57:21: We would serve for, we would do improvisation for the community.
01:57:27: But most of the part I'm doing education, drama and education. So for myself,
01:57:33: I kind of rely on God to say, if there is a chance for me to act,
01:57:40: I would love to act. For example, before I came here, we did a
01:57:45: Christian film, a short Christian film. I love those kinds of chances to do acting.
01:57:52: But most of the part, I think my career will be more education -oriented, to use drama as a way to help people to improve their personal growth.
01:58:06: All righty. Well, thank you so much for being our guest today. I want to thank everybody. My pleasure. Thanks to all the listeners for the questions.
01:58:14: Thank you for listening to me. I hope my English is clear enough for everybody to understand.
01:58:22: Yes, your English is more clear than many people I know who were born and raised right here in the
01:58:29: United States. Thanks for saying Lord. And I want everybody to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater