The Changing World of Mormonism...and the Vatican

Well, greetings and welcome to the divine line. My name is James white. I don't have any monitor here to know what the world's going on But that's okay.

That's how life is and when you forget to look at things. I've got to play this I This just happened and Evidently there is some

They're actually using the term big boy. I mean that that's scary That's a big boy press conference coming up with President Biden But he just evidently

Zelensky's in town, I've seen some some pictures Zelensky's always in his fatigues except when he's not

According to a French newspaper, I saw his wife had just purchased a 43 million dollar luxury automobile

So I've just who knows where that came the money came from biggest scam ever and let me just say something

I I Hadn't a mate. I was I guess

I shouldn't be surprised if I had pushback Then look what is going on right now is extremely dangerous in the world

I Read a book a number of years ago on how close we came nuclear thermonuclear war during the

Cuban Missile Crisis which took place right around the time I was born actually and It Was all over our insistence that a sovereign country

Cuba Was not allowed to have Russian missiles in it because that was too close to our borders they could launch those missiles and they could hit targets before we'd even have an opportunity hardly to even be prepared to respond and we said you're not doing that and We we came to within that close of thermonuclear war with Russia in the early 1960s

Insisting that to have a stable world meant that there had to be borders

Not only borders as in a everybody back then had to be borders We don't know anymore, but back then we knew that that was before George Soros Decided to destroy the world

Man, he's gonna answer for a lot. Oh my goodness the blood on that man's hands incredible But That there needed to be stability and That having nuclear missiles in Cuba Destroyed that stability

Now 60 years later The United States is insisting that Ukraine become part of NATO now, that was unthinkable 20 years ago

It was unthinkable 20 years Everybody knew that that was the exact same destabilizing move that Russia had tried in the 1960s

But now everybody's on board Republicans Democrats everybody

And it's like This is how you start a nuclear war who what what is wrong with these people and So in with that in mind

You know, I made comment about that and all people were coming back. It's all Russian aggression. Everything's Russia. Everything's Russia, you know the steel dossier was

Russia and the hunter Biden laptop was Russia and everything's Russia, you know, it's just Okay, whatever you say and So this just came across my feed like I said

Zelensky's in town Trying to get some more billions of dollars for whatever it is he does with it

And the candidate for president from the

Party of the culture of death also known as Democratic Party Is introducing him this just happened it's even before the

The news conference the big boy news It's 10 seconds

Here we go. And now I want to hand it over to the president of Ukraine who has as much courage as he has determination, ladies and gentlemen president

Putin Who was it?

Whoopi Goldberg Goldberg? I think it was Whoopi Goldberg on the view

Said that She doesn't care if President Biden poops his pants

She's still gonna vote for him or if he's in a coma Okay.

All right. All right. There you go Yeah, that I What what do you what is there left to say?

I I don't recognize this society. I don't recognize this nation

In my youth and early adulthood certainly, there is great division between Republicans and Democrats, but we live in an utterly divided nation utterly divided nation what one side calls good the other side calls evil and No nation can survive that for very long really can't

Of course, the other side doesn't have any basis for calling anything evil, but that's that's another issue

We we move on from from that point in time. So, um Where was

I going here? I there has been there's been some really interesting Yeah, I think it was yesterday or maybe the day before yesterday

The Senator Mike Lee from Utah Responded to Mike winger way to go

Mike and Mike had Mike had Posted Mormonism is not

Christianity as much as I love Mormons It would be an insult to Christ to pretend they're the same I would have

Phrased that last part a little bit more clearly, honestly I think what he's saying it would be an insult to Christ to pretend that they

Mormonism Christianity are the same belief system and of course when

I first started studying Mormonism all the Mormons agreed with that and They said the same thing

But Mormonism has changed a lot. And so Mike Lee Respond responded to Mike winger and Said so if one believes that Jesus Christ the only begotten the

Father Lived a sinless life and atoned for the sins of mankind He's not a

Christian if he belongs to a denomination of which you don't approve asking for a friend now again that that's

This is a good illustration of how much Mormonism has changed just over the past 30 years because Every missionary

I met with in those first years. That was a lot of missionaries We got we got we hit the route.

We hit the ground running. I am for years. I was a part of a very large

Southern Baptist megachurch and so any of the outreach visits, for example,

I had to with Mormonism Jehovah's Witnesses, they were given to me and Now that would be a lot of them.

I was going out talking to a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses a lot of Mormons as a result of that and then what would happen is people would contact me and they'd be like missionaries coming over at such -and -such time to the point where the

Arizona State Mission Got my picture and Distributed it amongst the missionaries.

So I remember very clearly Being at a an apartment one day waiting for missionaries to come and I Didn't even

I didn't even think about it at the time I hadn't gotten used to this idea yet, but I was looking out the windows the second floor window second floor apartment and I see the missionaries riding by on their bikes.

They look up and they keep riding and a few minutes later the guy gets a phone call from the missionaries and They said we can't come to see you not while that guy is there.

We're not gonna meet with him. We know who he is and That was after that one particularly really

Interesting encounter we had with some missionaries. It wouldn't leave this woman alone She did not want them coming anymore, but they wouldn't leave her alone.

And so one night about six of us Maybe eight of us from North Phoenix Showed up when they were supposed to show up You were there and then we had some big boys there.

Who is that? We had a really big guy with us member No, no, no, no, this was this was we're not talking that's just tall he was like weightlifter big

Might have been rust while might be yeah, there was there was a lot of testosterone there

So, yeah the missionaries yeah, and of course that's also around the same time that we started going to LDS wards and giving our testimonies during That before okay.

All right, but we they they knew who we were by this point in time. So Anyway, I don't know how

I got onto that. Um, what I was just thinking about there was the one story you told about this missionary that had come and sat down and you introduced yourself and the kid looks at you and says

Wow, I I thought you were just like a myth. I you're you're real well, and wasn't it wasn't it at your apartment that we had the two missionaries show up and The one guy was just he was just gung -ho

And he wanted to he was we were going back and forth and the other missionary was on the other end of the couch

My couch asleep and he fell asleep Yep, yep,

I remember that one. I remember that one You could just tell he had zero interest whatsoever or maybe he was going through a growth spurt

I look at him now and it's just so young. There's kids. They're babies And so yeah, so yeah, we to say that I've spent time talking with LDS missionaries so my point is

I know how Mormons talked in the 1980s and How they talk in 2024 it's been 40 years and It's changed and it's changed radically and look if you're a

Mormon and you're watching this program Maybe you're not old enough to know this But believe you me,

I know Mormons that are my age and they will confirm. Oh, yeah things have changed a lot

Yes, as they used to say on Sesame Street One of these things is not like the other.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and So I Responded to Mike Lee's tweet and a lot of people thought it was just they called it epic and all the rest of this kind of stuff

I just because The way he phrased it remember what what he what he wrote was so if one believes that Jesus Christ the only begotten of the

Father lived a sinless life and If you know

Mormon theology, you know Jesus is not the only begotten

Son of God The only way he is the only begotten Son of God is in one particular fashion in the flesh and that's in their in their writings the only begotten of the

Father in The flesh because all of us are big have been begotten by the

Father in the Spirit We're all the spirit children of Elohim and one of his many wives

But only God the Father in the body flesh and bones had sexual intercourse with Mary To create the body of Jesus now look just by the way

You tell man, I I'm not sure what the percentage would be but I would be willing to guess you tell 96 % of Modern Mormons who are under the age of 35

What I just said and they will be Shocked they'll go what no what no wait.

What idiot are you listening to type stuff? They really will There's an entire chapter if I can find it there it is

In is the more of my brother Entire chapter on this subject

Yeah, a Mormon doctrine yes, it starts on page chapter 12

Page 185 if you're if you're interested And I thought

I had included Huh, that's interesting

I thought I had included the Image that I had taken from one of the official church publications that Had the little stick figures, you know,

God the Father Mary Jesus, you know, mommy daddy You know, oh my yards, but I don't see it in there

I Address this rather fully in the book. There isn't a question about that.

There is no question. This was taught and I've told the story before I was at the

West gate of the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City Morning of General Conference, so it's sort of shady over there on that side the

Sun hasn't gotten there yet and We're passing out tracks and this tall lanky

Mormon fellow Looked a little bit just a little bit older than me Is coming across the road and he's in a hurry you can tell and You know,

I was trained by Wally Tope to get tracks out so I got close enough to him and I had the track to him and and He took it and And you could just see that there was this

Battle going on in his mind. Do I even bother and he stops and you see his shoulders go down He turns around and he looks at me and my other volunteers or this is fairly early on this is probably

Third fourth, maybe fifth time we had done it as a group. This would have been 87 ish 88 ish somewhere around there

And He looks at me and he says You know what's wrong with you, okay, that's not the first time we've heard that one.

I Was not sure what was gonna come after that he says

You think sex is dirty there very rarely am

I left just staring at somebody Because I have no words but I Was just going

What And he says you don't believe that God the

Father could have sex the Virgin Mary to create the body of Jesus and that's why you're wrong and this church is true and he turned around walk right in and All the volunteers are just looking at me with with their eyes are like saucers, you know, and I'm just like well folks.

You just met a really honest Mormon. There you there you go. That's That's they believe that's they believe

I will never forget when we're out in Mesa years and years ago And this young woman is

I think she was talking to you. She might have been talking to Mike she wasn't talking to me, but I'm just kind of listening right and You're going through this

Explaining this to her and she is no we do not believe that I've never heard anybody teach

I've never ever heard that that a complete 100 % denial It can't be and you looked over at a couple of missionaries that were you usually out there to spy on us?

They always had spine steel tracks. Yeah, and you said go over there and ask them and Then come back

Usually that's a scenario where they just leave and they don't ever you never see him again she went over and she talks to the missionaries for a few minutes and Then she comes back 180 degree reversal.

Okay, so we do believe that and then she begins defending it Hook line and sinker

Yeah, yeah. Yeah so all of this to explain my response to senator

Mike Lee I Typed you mean the only begotten the father in the flesh, don't you and I put in the flesh in bold italics

Because in Mormonism Elohim the father is an exalted man from another planet Who had a

God before him who only organized his play didn't create this way he organized But God can only organize pre -existing matter

And he engaged in physical sexual relations with his spirit daughter Mary So we get the body of Jesus who has become yet another

God and in fact, I just point out That's why Jesus had the power of eternal life is because his father was an exalted being that's

Each what they taught I should say I should keep saying what they taught in their official documents by Apostles Sitting around in the celestial room in the temple discussing these things but Today, I would say less than 5 % of Mormons that Once you get into the older Mormons Guys who went through the temple, you know 3040 years ago then they know it

Which means they also know they're no longer hearing it. It's not no longer being taught So they see the change

He Atoned for Adam's sin leaving us to work out our salvation including exaltation to godhood

Through the eternal law of regression the power of the priesthood, etc These are all foundational beliefs never even heard of in Christianity Mormons of just a few decades ago said said that openly and I gave a reference

LeGrand Richards a marvelous work in a wonder anyone who's read it. I don't have it in here right now It's I know right where it is in the next room

But if you read a marvelous work in a wonder by LeGrand Richards who was one of the twelve apostles of Mormon Church at the time

Almost every chapter and this is one of the first books. I read one of the first LDS books that I read was a marvelous work in a wonder because It was there was a set of like four or five books that every missionary was given once he was called on his mission and And articles of faith by James Talmadge was one of them

Doctrine salvation three volumes set by Joseph Fielding Smith and a marvelous work in a wonder and And Jesus to Christ also by Talmud And almost every chapter in that book

Specifically said Joseph Smith did not get this from reading the Bible Joseph Smith received this by revelation.

That's the why it cannot be found in the Bible That's why you can't try to prove these things from the Bible. It's it's it's revelation over going over again and The Mormons are very clear about this back then

Before Gordon Hinckley started the let's try to act like we're all just a bunch of Christians stuff

Um, so Mormons are three decades ago said that openly see LeGrand Richards and marvelous work in a wonder

Mormonism is the most polytheistic religion ever to appear amongst the sons of men And what

I mean by that is it's not just that Mormonism believes in some extra gods

They believe in an infinite number of God. So the

Hindus have 330 million Amateurs in Comparison to Mormonism Unlimited number of God's infinite number of God and the and the number is growing

If you believe what they hate and So that's what I I wrote and and posted that someone

Christopher T Actually gave the nice Link to where you can get is the more of my brother

Since that is the book that I wrote obviously I addressed the Doctrine of God rather fully in letters to a

Mormon elder as well but is the more of my brother was specifically focused on the

Doctrine of God and So it goes rather in -depth a little bit more in -depth than I think most people want and now

Wow in comparison to the actual knowledge of Of most

Mormons that book might confuse a few they may be they might be heading over their local ward chap chapel to find the

The little library to look some of that stuff up because I've never even heard of it But yeah,

I'm sorry Yeah, yeah, yeah if they if they have those books, yeah

So, yeah, it was it was now obviously to my knowledge Sandra Lee has not responded to me but That's that's what you get

Also going on on on Twitter right now are

I'm seeing more and more and more Interaction With Roman Catholicism and of course,

I see a just this really wide variety of Roman Catholics on Twitter and they don't seem to feel that's a problem

Even though their emphases their sources of authority seem very very different to me

You have the people who are just sold out on the

Marian dogmas and This is absolutely central and then you've got the more philosophically minded little less

Marian Lee devoted type folks and then you got the folks don't really know what they believe but everybody has those types of folks on Twitter and so sometimes people

Someone just posted a picture Zelensky's face when Biden introduced him as President Putin Every single world leader knows

Joe Biden is senile The whole world is looking at our nation in Absolute astonishment we will never

Have the trust or the fear of the rest of the world again we never will and Not nor should we to be honest with you and that's gonna have a huge impact upon our economy our ability to obtain resources

And Hence our liberties our freedoms. It's all purposeful.

It's all intentional or if what I'm seeing if if If what if what we're hearing right now that you know

Biden's digging is and I'm and I say this Biden. I mean Joe Biden is digging her heels in and He's going

I ain't going nowhere. And I've I've won all these delegates and I'm I'm the candidate and that's just the way it is

You're just you're just left going is this are these people turning on each other

And if so, what's gonna be the result of all of that? I It's fascinating and I'm glad God's still in control because I don't think anybody else is that's just just Boom truly really amazing and it's frightening frightening for my kids my grandkids my great -grandkids and Everything else.

So anyways back to the Roman Catholic issue Francis hasn't said anything wildly heretical or Crazy in the past couple of weeks now so The professional

Pope's planers are breathing a sigh of relief. They're just waiting. They know that's this and go ask forever

And I mentioned I mentioned I forget what the context was.

I Think it was here on the program It may have even been the last time That Francis had

Named father Maurizio Jody to a seven member

Committee a Study group, sorry a study group on the

Synod on synodality that Talk about a lame name

Synod on synodality maybe in Latin it ends up working. I don't know but it doesn't work in English But it is this

I don't even know how to describe it. It's it's meant to be this wonderfully

Inclusive Non -authoritarian Everyone gets together and sings kumbaya, you know, we we want to have study groups and flowers and This stuff

It's the exact opposite of the Council of Trent. Okay, it's no or especially

Florence and how they dealt with with the Greeks and so They it met last year remember and we reported then on all these speakers lecturing the bishops on the need to be inclusive and the conservative bishops ie the actual

Roman Catholic bishops are coming out going We literally have people lecturing bishops who do not hold meaningful positions in the church as If we're children and It's all meant to tell us that we need to be accepting of the practice of homosexuality.

This is what the bishops are saying This is what they're coming out and telling people This is what's happening this couldn't be happening without Francis's approval direction and everything else and so This is what's going on and so this this

Maurizio Chiodi Has argued that we need to consider the possibility that homosexual acts can sometimes be morally good and He has been placed as one of only seven members of the

Synod on synodality's study group on quote controversial doctrinal pastoral and ethical issues and quote

And what I said may have been may have been the last dividing line may have been last week whenever this came out

This is July 9th. So yeah, it was probably the last dividing line, but I was briefed about I said look

This is exactly how it happened to the United Church of Christ the United Methodist the

PC USA the ELCA You name it all the now corpse mainline denominations

That are dead in the doornail Apostate they've got lesbian priestesses in rainbow stoles

Telling absurd stories as if these are sermons Had all that happened, well, it didn't it didn't just happen overnight it started with study groups and Putting the one person on there gets a few things in and they put out their report and it's it's

It starts to move in this direction and then they the next report builds on that report it moves a little bit farther and moves a

Little farther moves it. It's the same game plan and The reality is in Roman Catholicism.

It's to Joe Fernandez and Francis and their cohort and all the

Cardinals that they've put in place to select Francis's successor that are engineering all this stuff and Believing Roman Catholics say nope.

Nope. Nope. Nope can't happen. Nope. Nope. Nope can't happen because what Vatican one said as If that somehow is some type of meaning 1870 years after the birth of Christ a

Council meets and says the Pope can't lead the church astray. Well the

Pope already had Is this this council has zero authority

The Apostles have are like what This is being done in our name.

Are you serious? But the believing Roman Catholic is what they have to believe that y 'all can't happen can't happen and it's happening right in front of them and because of that dogma that empty meaningless dogma of papal infallibility

They're just nope, it's not happening. I know Nope, the Pope's not putting a bunch of liberals on all the all the various know

Papal biblical commission. No, nobody there believes in Matthew. Oh Matthew. I don't see that. Nope. Nope that's how this kind of foolish ahistorical anti -biblical dogma functions and so This is what's going on He is changing the teachings of church when you control who you're putting into places of teaching authority interpretation for the next generations

That's how you change the teaching the church That's how you make the change.

Remember that poor I just felt so sorry for him. There was a Bishop in the

United Methodist Church from Africa Have you noticed how Africa has become the last bastion of common sense on the planet really has

I mean remember Matt Walsh's What is a woman thing?

He goes to Africa and he's asking some Africans via translator what is a woman and they're just like Because I think they're probably women walking around Topless in their village.

It's sort of like well Um, and Then they ask about marriage and transgenderism and these these

African Tribesmen are just looking at Matt Walsh like he just stepped out of a flying saucer.

He's What are you talking about? This is insanity. Yeah, it is utter insanity

So here's this this poor United Methodist Bishop from Africa and you know one of the last holdouts and Remember, he's the guy that was standing there going but the

Bible is the Word of God And not realizing that that denomination had left him behind Decades ago

He had just kept doing his thing I remember my dad telling me That back in the 50s 40s 50s.

He had heard Methodist preachers that could preach the gospel with power They're gone

That denomination is and how did it happen? Same way? It's happening right now in Roman Catholicism The doctrine is changed

By changing the context in which it is presented and The next generation who's become used to this

Weakened formulation then can accept an even further altered formulation and Go let's just you know, the church has the right to interpret these things church has the right to interpret these things

Even if what that means is I end up believing something That is 170 degrees off Of what was taught only a hundred years earlier

That's where that's where Rome is and they can't stop it Because they don't have an objective standard they oh, but they have the scriptures but they've already subjected the scriptures to the authority of the

Magisterium and Hence there is you know, it's sola ecclesia sola ecclesia.

It's right there. I got to put some put some Bible butter on my Greek New Testament before it's getting a little a little dry there

It's sola ecclesia That there is no objective unchanging standard there.

There is no apostolic tradition. There is no body of tradition nameless faceless

Unrecorded just passed down by whispering in the air from one bishop to another Every wild -eyed doctrine that has been placed at the at the

Feet of the Apostles that they never dreamed of never taught. It's all apostolic tradition

Okay We understand how that's that's how it works apostolic tradition is

Anything you can't prove From what the Apostles actually here's apostolic tradition.

Here it is Okay this is all we've got and You can say well, you know, maybe

You know, I saw one guy saying well, you know, I think there's you know, some apostolic tradition.

That's not in Scripture It's just not definitional the faith. So once you open up that door

There's there's no closing it you're done and So This is situation you all are facing and that's what's and that's what truly amazes me

When I look at people that are still converting Roman Catholicism today because They will you know, someone sent me a video of this convert and he's talking about how

The early church Venerated martyrs and their bones and stuff like that and certainly

During the period of persecution you can find some evidence not everywhere not universal, but you can find a growing cult of the

Saints Out of which the cult of Mary begins to grow And You know,

I just sit back and think about for a second Someone sent me a link

To a Statement In chapter 66 of Justin's apology

Saying what about this and and it used the term transmutation? Not transubstantiation and certainly

Justin didn't have the Aristotelian categories to even make that make sense, but What do you what do you do with with Justin's statement here and and if you look it up in shop, you'll notice there's a footnote and Talk about how

Roman Catholics and Protestants and Eastern Orthodox. They all claim it for themselves because it's so vague They all can claim it for themselves but anyway

We're talking about a time period When things are presented to you on Twitter Facebook, whatever the context is

From church history. This is why it's vitally important to have some kind of knowledge

Some Broad timeline To be able to put these claims into some kind of context

Some type of a context. So Justin Martyr You know when he lived

You know anything about him Do you know why he wore the philosopher's pallium his entire life?

Do you can you do you know anything about What he had access to as far as the canon of Scripture because remember there is a clear and obvious parallel Between the time period

During which the people of God recognized The Tanakh the

Torah and the Nevi 'im the Ketuvim the the Jewish Canon of Scripture 200 years for Christ they lay up only the 24 books or 22 books depending on how you count them

That is the same as the Protestant canon of the Old Testament. They lay them up in the temple and We see multiple references from Jewish sources

Concerning what is and what is not so in other words there was already law

Moses prophets writings While some of the apocryphal books are still being written in Fact at least one of the apocryphal books even makes reference to that It's so anachronistic to think that these books are actually part of the

Old Testament But And maybe someday I'm just gonna have to because it has been 30 years probably since I did this someday

I'm just gonna have to resurrect my apocryphal presentation and just do it on the dividing line. It's probably not a bad idea

If I've got all these Well, it doesn't matter. I've got it on I've got

I got in PowerPoint slash keynote So I can just throw it right up on the screen. It's easy to do But yeah,

I could do it that way, but it'd be easier. I'd probably actually be easier to do it here just because the You wouldn't have to be switching back and forth between what's on the screen and what's what's being projected but anyways on the

Apocryphal books and the evidence on the subject and and things like that but the point is

Do you know? How deeply would your theology be impacted?

If you did not have all 27 books in your testament. Well What if you didn't have third

John yeah, I probably wouldn't have much of an impact are there important things in third John Yeah, but I can't think of anything that isn't

Mentioned someplace else. There is a reference and I don't remember if it was specifically in third

John I don't have my reading glasses on so that's not gonna do me good. Um No, they're over there.

I could put a month where he talks about the the truth will always be with us so that that would be a

I think an important thing, but Obviously the doctrine of the atonement is not going to be

Fundamentally impacted by not having third John But it will be if you don't have don't have heavers and You can tell

Scholars can tell who read Justin and look at all the references he uses that he doesn't have a complete canon and So if you allow the early church fathers to be the early church fathers then you can just Allow for that and go.

Yeah, Justin's probably gonna say some few things come to some conclusions I'm not gonna agree with and there's an obvious reason why and No problem.

You can't do that with Rome They have to look at these people and they have to find in them their own beliefs

It is Roman Catholic anachronism and it's dogmatic anachronism anachronism, obviously everybody knows is the idea of reading into earlier sources concepts context beliefs that did not exist at that time and so One of the real clear

Examples of this is So, for example the first Vatican Council in 1870 when speaking of The papacy said we therefore for the preservation safekeeping and increased the

Catholic flock With the approval the Sacred Council to judge it to be necessary to propose the belief and acceptance of all the faithful in accordance with the ancient and constant faith of the

Universal Church The doctrine touching the institution perpetuity and nature of the sacred apostolic primacy so in accordance with the ancient and constant faith of the

Universal Church who gets to define that well They do and so you're being told this is the ancient and constant faith the

Universal Church and so when you read any of the apostolic fathers

It is a fact that there is No concept of the papacy in existence at that time

Newman knew that's why he had to come up with what's called the development hypothesis Honest Roman Catholic historians admit it today but that's why there's such a huge chasm between honest

Roman Catholic historians and most Roman Catholic apologists and So the

Roman Catholic who believes these things reads the early church fathers and inserts specifically the apostolic fathers and inserts

Into his or her reading of their words Concepts and context that simply would have left

Ignatius or Clement or whoever it was who wrote the epistle to Diognetus utterly confused and As to what in the world was being

Why would you think that's what we were saying? Never even thought of that before so Likewise the council continued on talked about Having just quoted a number of texts including

You know Petrine text which by the way when you actually look at early church writings were interpreted a number of different ways yet the council says

At open variance with this clear doctrine of Holy Scripture as it has been ever understood by the

Catholic Church Are the perverse opinions of those who so on and so forth?

it's just a simple bold -faced lie

To say that there is one understanding now and this is how people get around it

They'll go. Okay. Okay. Okay? Yeah You can find

This early church father had different view that early church father didn't have a different view they had different view But that's not an apostolic tradition.

Yeah, I first ran into this with Jerry Matitek or Jerry Matitek's first ran into it with me.

It might be the better way to put it But I had listened to all the debates that Jerry had done with Catholic with a

Calvary Chapel pastors and stuff like that and So when I started hitting him with church history stuff

Because I started teaching church history in 1990 So when

I started punching back That's when that's when you hit well, but that's not a part of that's not tradition

So he could quote and it might be the same guy He could quote

Tertullian in Support of his position if I quote Tertullian in contradiction his position.

Well ones tradition was not how convenient Very very convenient indeed

So he could quote You have this kind of of assertion being made and Let me there's there's another

Quote I know it's in here someplace. I Just grabbed this right before the program started so I didn't get a chance to roll down to it

Well, I know what the name is, but I wonder if I could just throw throw it in search for it

Um Nope, where is the search thing?

There we go Hold on. This is a live program There it is,

I like search things it's much faster than indexes Tell you from back in 1896

We have these words from a papal document called sadist cognitum

Wherefore in the decree of the Vatican counsellors to the nature and authority the primacy of the Roman pontiff

No, newly conceived opinion is set forth but the venerable and constant belief of every age

Let me repeat that the venerable and constant belief of every age when you encounter

Papal statements That are simply historically laughable

I've I've read The words of the

North African bishops under Cyprian Telling Stephen the Bishop of Rome to stick it in his ear

It was said in Latin a little bit nicer than that, but that's what they were saying

Um They in fact, I've read where the the deacons of the

Church of Rome wrote to Cyprian and called him Pope and I believe is

Fortunatus Who wrote a scathing letter about Stephen the

Bishop of Rome and his Absurd attempts to elevate himself

Beyond anything that the Apostles had ever taught or believed or the church that ever believed so on so forth

And then Then you start looking at the pseudo -isidorean decretals and then you look at the story right before the program started

I was reading a secular book on ancient forgeries and specifically on the subject of the forgery of the donation of Constantine and How the modern and I say modern

From Minimally Trent maybe even fourth

Lateran Council onward Doctrine of the papacy was

Could never have come into existence Without the donation of Constantine and yet The entire body of the

Roman Catholic scholarly community Recognizes today that the donation of Constantine is a complete forgery, but it functioned

Definitionally for hundreds of years as a fraud within Roman Catholicism in building the power of the papacy the number of Patristic quotations

That Rome has created out of whole cloth She used to substantiate her authority and her dogmas and her teaching is

Astonishing It's massive. I've told you the story about how in a debate in my lifetime

I debated a Roman Catholic on Long Island on The perpetual virginity of Mary.

I think it might have been immaculate conception, but it was one of the Marian dogmas He hit me with a quotation from Augustine, but I'd never heard of before it's because it was fake

Now did he know it was fake I don't know but there are so many of these kinds of frauds out there that it's amazing and So what you're really dealing with today is this massive edifice of the papacy

And it just floats in midair What it had been founded on what had been developed from has been washed away by the study of history the nation of Constantine the false

Citations you look at how many things that for example Thomas Aquinas would quote and Again, this is pre critical and and what does that mean?

This was in a time period Where you still during the medieval period had?

The attitude of anachronism. What does that mean? Nothing's ever changed. That's why you have the artist paintings of David You know a bit.

They'll have a biblical, you know artists do a biblical picture and David wears Armor and is riding a horse and lives in a castle

Because they thought everything had always been the same they didn't realize that things had changed And it was

Lorenzo Valla Who realized I think things have changed and began proving it and that's why he only publishes stuff

Anonymously and posthumously because he would be burned to steak and it was

Rasmus who then publishes stuff and Risked getting burned to steak and he almost did get burned to steak few times.

But anyway So Aquinas brilliant mind but living in a day where Hey if people have said that this quotes been accurate all along that it must be accurate all along and so he's quoting stuff that just No one back then had actually said and that's how you create these

Dogmas and you maintain them Over time even when historical research just discovers

Nothing that we've believed here is actually true We can't substantiate any of this

But it's still there and people will defend it to their dying breath

But it's simply not true and so on Twitter someone had Put up a

Picture of this corpse Skeleton a relic

That people bow down to and pray to and do all the rest of stuff So the

Roman Catholics start going. Well, you know You know when The early martyrs, you know, they they felt that their bodies were more precious and than gold

And that's true. They did say that That doesn't mean that they propped their bodies up in churches, which they didn't have any of at the time because they couldn't and Prayed to them in the sense of thinking that they were sources of grace

And certainly had nothing to do with indulgences and All the rest of stuff that ends up becoming the whole relic trade during the medieval period

This is why you need to know church history because they'll take something and It's one part that develops way back here

But it doesn't come to have the meaning it has today until this part this part and this part develop and they all come together

A thousand years later, but ah, I found the one of them. I found the one part way back here That must mean it's all true.

I've been watching it on Twitter all day today And It is tough on Twitter To try to give them a background and to try to encourage them to maybe you know

Recognize what they're doing But I'm more concerned about the people that are seeing it for the first time and going

I never heard Anything about polycart before or something like that and that's how you end up with these people going

I was a Protestant until I read the early church. You didn't read the early church fathers You read an anachronistic

Reinterpretation of them in light of modern Roman Catholic dogma. That's what you did beyond You actually read very little of them yourself

And that's just sort of how it works but it just Really leaves me confused

About these people converting in the days of Francis When it's so obvious that the guy doesn't really necessarily care about all that stuff

Liberation theologians, that's not their thing They're Marxists and He is changing tradition and the trajectory of the church right left and center and you just watch

You you know, I can say just watch but it takes time and Not all of us necessarily have all of that time to be

Looking at stuff. So anyways Just some stuff from Twitter today just a reminder

The part of the reason I haven't pushed to get the Stuff up quite yet on the debates is for the first one

There has to be formal approval By Roman Catholic bishops in the area and That hasn't actually been obtained yet.

They're assuming that it's going to be given but it might not So we don't want to necessarily, you know

Spend the time doing graphics and stuff until we know it's gonna happen The second debate on open theism that one's pretty much locked in and then debate with Jared.

That's pretty much locked in too But we will be putting that stuff together for our friends up in Colorado looking forward to seeing you all up there and Thanks again to everybody for your participation in the

Bible and multi -layer cross Fundraiser we did to help with the cost on the the new

RV The third item and it's not like we're going around. It's just This is what people have done for us in the past We know a few people that are good artisans and do wonderful work.

And so Derek Melton has already sent the Handmade Handforged beautiful blade we have pictures of it

When rich first saw it I heard it from the other room. He goes. Oh, I want that So There you go evidently

I Suppose that means from your perspective. It's one good -looking blade.

You have to do it in the voice of the Emperor. I want Yeah, that's what you said

I want this I want this yes, so It has been shipped. And so I would assume while I'm on the road we will start up a raffle on that one and That is unless it accidentally disappears somewhere who knows

I you know, I'm getting older and The memory goes and who knows where I put it and what wait a minute that actually happened

Which one what was it? You lost that was the Bible last year that we auctioned off. Yeah. Yeah, you actually lost

I put it in a safe place The Danger of the safe place

I put it in the same place Yeah, but we did we did find it thankfully but yes the

I have a picture of the blades so Rich would have to hide it the rest of his life

And never get to have it around if if it did get purposefully misplaced

So anyways, that'll be coming up as well. So once again, this is the last program in studio

Lord willing for a month and we will be back in the

Mobile command center and Made a lot of changes

Hopefully that will greatly enhance our internet

Accessibility but it also will mean that we're trying to work with a new system the first few times and there may be some hiccups and You know, we'll see we'll see but yes pull out on Monday and Head north, so I'm excited about that and Just hey, if you've got the alphanumeric ministries app, you'll always know when we're gonna be doing what we're doing