House Rule #13 Confront Sin in Love (1 Timothy 5:1-2)

Confronting Sin as Family Discipline in the Household of God

Good to see each one this morning. We're gonna open our Bibles this morning back to first Timothy as we continue our study and house rules for God's Church. This morning we arrive at chapter 5. Be looking at the first two verses.

Let's commit our time to our Lord and ask his blessing on our study this morning. Our father we do. Thank you that we have this opportunity to be together to open up your word and Experience the ministry of your spirit to teach us lead us and guide us.

Thank you for who you are and what you have done for us. Help us to learn from your word this morning to apply it to our lives to be diligent to be obedient to what we learn and know and Pray that you would change us.

Conform us to be more and more like Christ in how we think and how we act and how we relate to each other. We thank you for the great blessing we have through your grace in Jesus name. Amen well this morning as we Get into chapter 5.

We're just going to be looking at the first two verses in Chapter 5 it is actually two verses in our Bibles, but a single sentence. So it's going to be fairly short most commentators. Actually take these two verses almost as a as a paragraph or a unit of thought.

So that's what we're going to do this morning there's an outline for you to follow along and if you don't have a copy of that there are some back here and Help yourself to those. This morning. We're going to see house rule number 13 confront sin in love from 1st Timothy 5 verses 1 and 2 and Paul then tells Timothy Do not rebuke an older man, but encourage him as you would a father.

Younger men as brothers older women as mothers. Younger women as sisters in all purity now. This little sentence is really pretty simple doesn't take a whole lot for us to understand what's going on here.

But what Paul is doing here compared to what he's done so far in this letter is really it's as if he's now Focusing in on the inner workings of the household of God. It's as if Paul says to Timothy Okay, we're going to shut the doors.

We're going to gather in the living room as a family and We're going to deal with some family issues here. So these are some internal workings of the church. God, of course is sovereign over this universe and he's concerned with the vast movings of Nations and there's all those things that are out there in the world that we are also concerned with but God is very concerned With his church.

He is very deeply concerned with how his church functions internally and he's really concerned with each individual person within the church and So he really this gets down into how the church relates to itself internally.

It's again like a family coming into the living room of the home. There's no one else there and so now it's time for a family talk. Paul established this model with his theme verse back in chapter 3 verses 14 and 15 which we saw and we've gone back to it over and over again when he refers to The church as God's house or the household of God just like a home and of course with a home.

It's not so much the house the structure that's important. But what's inside the people inside? So this is really what Paul is doing here to Timothy. Through Timothy to minister to the church at Ephesus Jesus really did lead the way in describing the church as a family.

Thirteen times in the Sermon on the Mount. He said your father your father. Wouldn't the disciples asked him to teach them to pray. He said pray like this our Father as you well know. Even at the resurrection John chapter 20 verse 17 records it.

Mary is there and Jesus says to Mary the resurrected Christ. Do not cling to me for I have not yet ascended to the father. But go to my brothers and say to them I am ascending to my father and your father to my God and your God think of that identification he makes with these men who the night before Bugged out right?

They're not even there but Mary is. But that identification that he makes is based on who they are through faith in him. In Hebrews 2 11 another passage Says for he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source.

That is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers. Saying I will tell of your name to my brothers in the midst of the congregation. I will sing your praise. In other context in Scripture the church is pictured in a variety of other ways different kinds of metaphors.

The the word church ecclesia the called-out ones. It's Paul uses the metaphor of the human body in 1st Corinthians, as you know, you know, not everybody's a hand. Not everybody's an iron ear. But they are designed by God to work together under the headship of the head in that metaphor.

And of course the head of the church is Christ. The church is referred to as a flock of sheep needing a shepherd. That's one of the metaphors very common. Well known and it's also called a priesthood a holy nation a kingdom a vine and also God's people.

But the picture of the church as a Family may be one of the best pictures of what it means to be a believer in Jesus Christ because it best pictures the relationship that we have with God as Our father and because we have the same father we have that family relationship with one another.

I Think Paul is giving special attention here to how a local church or a fellowship is supposed to function. Referring to the church as the household of God. There were probably several house churches throughout Ephesus big city maybe 200 ,000 people at the time and so these these fellowships were meeting in homes and That's why Paul told the Ephesian elders that he when he met with them He said I taught you publicly and from house to house.

So he would have been going house to house to these people several years before he wrote to Timothy ministering in these house churches and We get a little insight into the the the theology of this from Paul's letter to the Ephesians and to 18 and 19 and he's speaking to Gentile believers and there would have been a real up to that point even a built-in animosity toward Gentiles by the part of the on the part of the Jews and also From the Gentiles to the Jews, but now the church being made up of both Jew and Gentile.

That needs to be set aside and Paul says for through him or Christ We both have access in one spirit to the father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens. But you are fellow citizens with the Saints and members of the household of God in Galatians 6 verse 10 Paul's tells those churches.

So then as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone and especially to those who are of the household of faith. Again emphasis on the internal working of the church. So the church is called the household of faith the household of God and As we know the home designed by God to be a place of nurture a place of growth place of security and love it at times has to also be a place of loving discipline and I think most of us would probably agree if we heard about or knew about a child who was never ever Disciplined in any way shape or form by the parents we would probably say something to the effect of they don't love that child would we not and So even within the church God's loving discipline is to be administered.

When it comes to the issue of dealing with sin and as we look at these two verses this morning We're going to see that the issue is not really the what in other words It's not really an argument to do it.

The issue is really how do you do it? How do you go about doing this? And so what we're going to see this morning there on your notes. We're gonna see two commands and there's four groups of people. And so first thing we're going to see is the how the how how is sin to be confronted within the church?

Paul says he starts out by saying do not rebuke an older man. But encourage him as you would a father now a lot of what we're going to be doing this morning is simply word study. Okay, so It it it it it's pretty self-explanatory.

But it's important for us to see how Paul is using these words and how they're they're translated back and forth. We're really blessed to have excellent English translations and all kinds of material that we can learn from Scripture.

So What we need to see here though, and it's important is that word rebuke. This is ESV. Now if you have a new American Standard It'll add the word sharply rebuke because they understand that this is a particular word meaning a certain thing here.

This is also the single time it occurs in the Bible. Okay, it's a single occurrence and Paul is me. Paul is negating it. He's prohibiting it from going on. This is a word that is actually It means to strike at to rebuke with words.

It's a very harsh kind of response to somebody. Paul says don't do that. So your first blank there would be do not confront with harshness. This word and again, it only occurs here and it's being prohibited.

It's not to be done. Epiplexis you may hear our English word apoplexy in this all right and That's a word. You may not hear too much anymore associated with medicine. It used to be a medical term and That it means to sharply rebuke to really verbally attack someone.

This is prohibited by the Apostle Paul a sinning Christian is not to be treated harshly not spoken to sharply or Violently nothing we need to notice here and when it says an older man. It's exactly the same word that's used later on in this same chapter.

To speak of the an elder in the church translate an ESV elder. Do not admit a charge against an elder. So say exact same word so that but the translators understand the context is somewhat different. It's not speaking of specifically an elder or leader in the church, although it was certainly applied to them, but simply a man who is older and Paul says don't rebuke that man with sharp language.

But encourage him as you would a father again back to this word up as epiplexis, okay apoplexy we would say. Every time I think of that word and it's just me. Okay, I think of one man that I have seen pictures of in a video.

Do you remember Billy Martin? The former baseball player and then he's passed away now, but he was the manager of the New York Yankees for a while. Okay, and all managers do this on occasion when they get a call that they don't like but Billy Martin would get Apoplectic and if you can find out little videos online of Billy Martin coming out of the dugout and going out to protest a call.

Of some kind usually the ump is this great big huge guy standing there, you know and Billy Martin is just he's just Red in the face and he's waving his arms and back then they didn't you couldn't hear what he was saying.

But you could kind of read his lips and he was just screaming and yelling and and then he couldn't touch him, right? Can't touch him. But then he would just start kicking dirt on the guy and all kinds of.

I always think of Billy Martin getting Apoplectic that's what apoplectic means now. Obviously that's very extreme but this prohibition would also include harsh language or something like that one one commentator says this although apoplexy as a Specific medical term is not such a common term.

Now the word apoplectic certainly is meaning furious and red-faced with uncontrollable rage. So called because it's symptoms of flushed red face and loss of bodily control. Mimic those of apoplexy when it was more of a medical term.

Okay, it often used humorously such as Apoplectic is how you might describe your parents when they see your grades. Okay, you're you're a student. So that's what that's what that word is it only occurs here and Paul prohibits it in any way shape or form.

Certainly, it can be applied to everybody in the church but certainly an older man and then he says don't do that, but and Courage him now here. We have to do a little bit another a word study. This is the same word in its verb form that's used in the noun form up in verse 13 as far as public reading of Scripture to Exhortation and teaching it's the word in the Greek word is para kaleo and that's a compound word para I mean alongside para we have para church ministries that come alongside the church.

It's supposed to come alongside the church and Kaleo to call out and basically to call alongside that's what that word means it means to call alongside to speak to that person and What it what you speak to them about can have a variety of Applications.

Okay. So when you see the word here Exhortation it means to to basically apply Scripture in some way shape or form however, it needs to be applied could be a warning could be a Rebuke it could be to encourage somebody or something like that.

It it it means Depending on the context what the situation calls for and so this is what we are supposed to do. We confront with Encouragement and I use the word encouragement there. But again, it simply means to call somebody alongside to speak to them to produce a certain kind of result okay, and sometimes very commonly in the In in our English Bibles, it's it's the word comfort the word comfort.

But bear in mind even the word English word comfort comes from Latin comfort. It means with strength. Okay Forte or fort of the strength of the enemy is the fort or fortress. You musicians know that Forte means strength, right?

And so even though we are sort of been Psychologized in evangelical Christianity, we think comfort I need comfort. Well that word actually means to strengthen. Okay, and so it we need to understand how these words are being used here you don't Confront an older man or anybody else with harshness but you call them alongside to accomplish whatever purse purpose you have for them and That's just what Paul is telling Timothy to do in the churches at Ephesus.

Now remember what he had told them before. He said Let no one up in verse 12 of verse of chapter 4. Let no one despise you for your youth. But set the believers an example in speech in conduct in love in faith in purity now.

Can you imagine a scenario where Timothy would walk into a house church? He's a younger man and he has this letter from the Apostle Paul basically delegating apostolic authority to him and There are false teachers in these churches as we saw from chapter 1 and these churches have been there 10 to 12 years.

There's probably some older men in these churches teaching false doctrine so you can see then how this sort of complements what he told him don't let anybody despise you and if you confront an older man with his false teaching, but do not respond in a way, that's Apoplectic.

Okay, and so it really does complement. Well what he's already told him this quite possibly could happen and maybe did happen when he went into these churches. Encourage him as you would a father this word exhortation is in the noun form it occurs 29 times in the New Testament and again depending on the passage being taught the Exhortation make may take the form of something to start doing something to stop doing.

Maybe to be warned of the consequences of something and so on it has broad application even though it's it basically means to call alongside and speak to that person and. Then there's a word here that we need to we need to look at to this word.

Rebuke now, we just looked at what this word is here in the ESV do not rebuke an older man. But if you look down at the end of chapter 5 verse 20 and back to the elders as. For those who persist in sin rebuke them in the presence of all so that the rest may stand in fear.

That's a different word than that first word. He uses because that only occurs one time there. This is the word there and it's on your outline there. It's the word to convict Elenco. It's often Translated to convict it's you it's used in first Timothy 520, which we just looked at and several other places there in Scripture.

Many times it's used in Scripture. But here's the thing it's often translated rebuke and you may even hear people use that in in Evangelical circles like well, I had to rebuke somebody or boy. Did I ever rebuke them?

You know and particularly with social media the way it is now and being able to comment on everything people can put their opinion out there and comment in and somebody might say well I really rebuked that person for their theological position or or something like that.

Did they? Here's the definition of it a very excellent definition from the theological dictionary of the New Testament. To show someone his sin and to summon him to repentance the word does not mean only to blame or to reprove nor to convince in The sense of proof nor to reveal or expose but to set right.

Namely to point away from sin to repentance it implies Educative discipline. All right, you see the difference between doing that and just simply Commenting on somebody and telling them that they're wrong or that they don't you haven't really rebuked that person unless your purpose is Redemptive for that person and it's designed to correct them and move them to repentance and to a more biblical position.

Okay, have any questions about that? Or you see how that that word is to be used and Understood. Yeah, Dave. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, and several others as well in Scripture. We're gonna look at one from Galatians here anybody.

From Acts 18 Priscilla and Aquila privately dealt with a correction of somebody. Yeah, yeah good point. I mean because the whole purse the whole purpose of it is Educative discipline if you simply point out their sin or point out there where they're wrong scripturally and you're not ready to explain How and why they're wrong.

It's not a real biblical rebuke. Okay, it's easy to just Rebuke somebody in the sense of saying you're wrong. That's not right, or although all the worst things that you might see in comments, you know I mean, it's it's it's pretty pretty clear.

Those are not what we would call a biblical rebuke. Okay. After Hearing the testimony of those who came off the mission field as far as how the Gentiles were being saved. The Jerusalem Council then voted and all agreed that Gentiles are being saved.

Exactly the same way Jews are being saved. Okay, there's no distinction, but people were still trying to make distinctions and Even Peter got caught up in this. Let's look at Galatians for a minute. Galatians chapter 1 and 2.

This is really an amazing example of what Paul is talking about here. He did this exact this very thing Concerning Peter that he records in his letter to the Galatian Christians. In chapter 2 he's recounting his history and what he had done after the seeing for sure that the Gentiles were truly being saved and That it's not necessary to bring them under the Mosaic law and impose Jewish Practices on them like circumcision which is what the Judaizers were trying to do.

They believed that only Jews could be saved. Of course, you only Jews could be saved and Gentiles can be saved as long as they become Jews. Okay, that was the whole thinking behind it and In in fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant.

Which is what Paul is doing here, which said that God is going to bless all the nations all the families of the earth. Okay, that's really the the underlying theological position here. Paul is saying no Gentiles are saved just like everybody else, but Peter had a problem with this.

Okay, and he was Kind of volatile and he was easily influenced. But in chapter 2 of Galatians Paul says after 14 years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas taking Titus along with me. I went up because of a revelation and set before them though privately before those who seemed influential.

The gospel that I proclaimed among the Gentiles in order to make sure I was not running or had not run in vain. But even Titus who was with me. Titus being a Gentile was not forced to be circumcised though.

He was a Greek yet because of false brothers. Secretly brought in who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Jesus in Christ Jesus. So that they might bring us into slavery to them. We did not yield in submission even for a moment so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you and From those who seem to be influential what they were makes no difference to me.

God shows no partiality. You gotta love Paul, right? He's so salty. Yeah. The the celebrity, you know stuff that people get all weak in the knees over nowadays and evangelical circles. Paul didn't care.

Doesn't mean anything to me who you are. God shows no partiality. Those I say who seemed influential added nothing to me. In other words his gospel in his ministry on The contrary when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised.

Just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised for he who who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mind to the Gentiles and When James and Cephas and John who seemed to be pillars Perceived the grace that was given to me.

They gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. So there's a there's somewhat of a division of labor here simply to two different people groups.

Paul to the Apostle to the Gentiles just like Christ had called him to do and Then verse 10 only they asked us to remember the poor the very thing I was eager to do the gospel didn't change at all. The only thing he you know, just remember the poor you remember in the Jerusalem Council.

There was just some issues if you go to a town where there's Jews, just be careful. Don't do anything. It's going to offend the Jews. That was it. That was the only. The only restrictions or modification put on that other than that the gospel is the same to Jews and Gentiles.

Okay. Now here here's the issue. But when Cephas came to Antioch, that's Peter now, here's how Paul deals with his sin. I opposed him to his face because he stood condemned. Why for before certain men came from James?

He was eating with the Gentiles but when they came he drew back and separated himself fearing the circumcision party and The rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.

I've always was always puzzled early on. You know, how come how come God added Paul? You know because you had the twelve right and then Judas gone, but then replaced in Acts 1 by Matthias. So now the twelves back again, but how why add Paul?

I think this is Paul's finest moment right here. Everybody else including Barnabas who had witnessed the Gentile salvation. They're all moving toward wanting to add this Conditions to being saved through faith alone.

I think here Paul's like the last man standing who else is there but Paul and here's what he did. He confronted Peter to his face. Because of his hypocrisy the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him.

So that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel I said to Cephas before them all okay, so he's Personally face to face but in front of everybody else, right?

If and this is just absolutely a masterful argument he's Logical, but he's also theological. It's just incredible and he's not ugly. He's not apoplectic. It's just and he uses questions. Okay, if you though a Jew live like a Gentile and not like a Jew.

How can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews? We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners yet. We know that a person is not justified by works of the law, but through faith in Jesus Christ.

So we also have believed in Christ in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law. Because by works of the law, no one will be justified. But if in our endeavor to be justified in Christ We too were found to be sinners.

Is Christ any servant of sin? Certainly not absolutely masterful. Confrontation to Peter in his sin, but in in doing exactly what he says We are supposed to do and how we're supposed to do it. It was personal it was face to face, but it was also in presence of others as well.

So this is Paul doing exactly what he calls Timothy to do. And in fact back in first Timothy if you look at back in chapter chapter 5 once again. How does the church relate to elders as for those who persist in sin?

Rebuke them. This is the this word for rebuke care in the presence of all. So that the rest may stand in fear the rest of the elders. That's exactly what Paul did in this Galatians situation. So he's very consistent in his prescription for how Timothy is to deal with sin and how people in the church are to deal with it.

Do not confront in harshness. Confront without harshness, but confront with. Encouragement. Call them alongside and speak to them to accomplish a particular task. Whatever it is. I mean it could be admonishment.

It could be warning. Paul uses this word a couple different times here in first several different times in first Timothy. He uses it in Chapter 1 verse 3 as I urged you it's an urging. Okay, that's that same word and so on.

So This is a word that is very important. It occurs a hundred and nine times throughout Scripture. And if you look at the context, you'll see that it's it's used different English words many times but it has to do with the context and has to do with who you're talking to and and what you are trying to accomplish as.

Well, but Paul did exactly with Peter what he's telling Timothy to do here. He confronted Peter to his face in the presence of everybody else. Used extremely powerful argument, but it was logical, but it was also theological.

The purpose of the personal confrontation in the church is. Not to venture anger at an offense or to attack or embarrass a brother or sister. So what not to do do not sharply or violently rebuke anyone but call that person alongside for the purpose of producing a particular effect.

You have any questions so far comments here Julie, right? It is that is church discipline. Church discipline is a broad. Right, I would I would categorize that as church discipline. Absolutely and and and I agree with you our our view for the most part of what is church discipline comes from Matthew 18 and and.

Because so many churches don't do it. That's the only thing they hear and see and that's their definition of it. Preaching the Word of God from the pulpit is church discipline right in the sense. That's why in 2nd Timothy 4 Paul says preach the word.

Reprove rebuke exhort with great patience and instruction. So there again that word power Kaleo is in that context right there. So so the church here again, we're back to Bible exposition churches that don't do Bible exposition.

Don't do church discipline absolutely, and. And that's the thing God mediates his discipline his lordship through his word by his Spirit. And that's how he changes us. So in in in churches where that scripture is routinely preached and taught.

There is going that is a disciplinary process. Does it not doesn't aren't we rebuked in our sin? We should be and and even if it's privately we don't need to jump up and say wow. I got rebuked in my sin today.

Praise alluia, you know, I mean that's part of the growth process and discipleship. But I would categorize this as church discipline. What Paul did with with Peter was church discipline. I always wondered you know was Peter.

Did he have that knife that dagger? He was a little volatile, you know, I mean he whacked that guy's ear off, you know, but Paul still you know. So does that does that clarify it? I would put it in the category of church discipline, but I see church discipline is a broader disciple making process.

Then just those now those things are those times are important, of course Matthew 18 is is that you know if your brother sins. Go to him and so on as you're describing but right after that Peter says How many times should I forgive my brother if he sins?

How many times right and the Lord takes him through that and then he gives that parable of the of the man who did not Forgive and so that's the major part of that passage. That whole thing is a lack of forgiveness on the part of the person who's been offended.

That that cures an awful lot of issues in churches is forgiveness. Doesn't always have to be a face-to-face confrontation. What Paul did that with this was? Absolutely vital in the history of the church.

The church could easily have gone and it split into two you could have had a Gentile Church and a Christian Church. But everything everything that Paul did and everything that was taught is designed to say no.

There's one church one body one spirit one Lord and so on as he is he taught any in Ephesians or many other places. That's the physical outworking of it right there to to accomplish that so He did. Yeah, and the church was one one body made up of Jew and Gentile.

Just like the Abrahamic Covenant when God said I will I will I will. He does and that was part of Paul's ministry to ensure that that was happening. Yes I would say that in in 520 when he says in front of the rest.

I take that as the rest of the elders. But in Matthew 18, it says before the church would be the final. So I think I think even there in Matthew in in first Timothy 5 if the elder persists in sin That still is confined to the elders.

I think a good basic rule of thumb that the The rebuke or the confrontation should be no more public than the sin, you know. If if and that's why again social media, you know, well this guy really man.

He just you don't know. Really, you know, that is not a biblical rebuke. That is that is somebody just inventing they're wanting to garner support for their position. Okay, is that is that clear? I would I would keep a distinction between those two passages that way Peter I think.

But maybe they're maybe saying something that's Biblically inaccurate. There's a loving way to publicly address their public statements sure in a way that's constructive and Strongly encouraged to use scripture to back that up.

I think there is a there's a proper and good way to do that. They're not in sin. But it's a it's a hey, let's talk about this theology exactly. Exactly and and it's like so many of these things. There's an opportunity for for the tool to be used for good.

And flip side of that as we all know for for but yeah. Sure. You wouldn't want to exclude that as an op as an as a tool to use to communicate back and forth. It happens all the time in a very proper way all i'm saying is so much of what you see nowadays is is not what is biblically Appropriate.

I don't think so. Okay, jim. Yes. Exactly. Which means that when what like if I were to write a book correcting somebody's theology or critiquing the theology. They've made their position public and they have been reproved for that.

Therefore there's no venue for me to go privately to that person nor am I required to do so I can confront that publicly. Exactly. Absolutely and and even with elders. They are in a more highly visible And responsible position within the church within the body of christ.

But yeah, I mean, um somebody publishes a work and somebody else publishes something responds against it and then there's all kinds of uh, Um People getting upset and you have to do that privately know that this book is published Uh very publicly and it's sold so many copies.

It's all over the place. Once you do that, then it's uh, it's fair game for anybody to comment on it. Yeah, steve hostility or disagreement I have been sharpened And and disciplined all in a way that would I think fall under that spectrum of church discipline.

But it's it's a loving it is it's exactly it's a loving coming alongside. And saying let me show you basically a better way and more. How do you consider this if you thought about this? What about this?

Yeah, it's an amazing there is no hostility and there isn't even um willful disobedience or Disagreement. Yeah, but man. Yeah, and and even in in theological discussions, you know um. You have to sort of ask a question, you know if a person disagrees theologically.

Why you know, are they they've been a christian for a week and they don't they've never been discipled. And they have all these concepts like we've all had in our Thinking and and they just need to grow or are they a 45 year old tenured professor in a bible college?

Who has advanced degrees? And he's very Smart as to how he can communicate heresy. And maybe even publishing books with it in there. That's there's a gigantic difference. There's a massive. There's a broad spectrum there.

And this is why I think in scripture we have all these different ways, you know and different um different scenarios first corinthians five I mean paul that whole chapter deals with a man in the corinthian church.

And I like the way paul puts it. He had his father's wife. You kind of you sort of have to stop and go. Okay. Let me his his head. It's like paul didn't want to say what's going on here. But you get right down to the bottom of that and basically paul's saying put him out of the church.

It's it's there are times when When church leadership needs to respond quickly for the sake of the flock, you know. If it's a real wolf and you know, they need to be asked whatever it might be. But there are also times when there just needs to be discernment and that person just needs to be brought along and trained.

This is why over and over again teaching them to obey all that i've commanded preach the word, you know. Reprove your brook exhort with great patience and instruction the whole the whole idea of a teaching ministry is to bring people from where they are Now to where god wants them to be tomorrow and the next day and so on.

So it is it is a spectrum of things and unfortunately. The idea of church discipline has kind of become uh something that. And and then you some of those folks can also find examples of how it was done really wrong really bad and somebody just is just hammered and and uh castigated for.