Trump is on Fire and Open Q&A

It's the fact of I'm sharing with you what I would see as good news. You wouldn't.

I get it. But the thing is, there's a difference between saying this is the freedom of speech to say this is what the

Bible says. I'm not telling you, you have to believe it. I'm not forcing you to be a Christian. And there's no

Christians are trying to legislate to force you to be a Christian or go to go to church.

Have you seen Project 2025? Did you see Black Blue 2025? No, I have not.

Where does that? Does that legislate that people have to be in church? I don't know if it does that. This is

Apologetics Live. To answer your questions, your host from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rappaport.

We are live, Apologetics Live, here to answer your most challenging questions that you have about God and the

Bible. This is a ministry of Striving for Eternity. We do here each week is to, well, we do apologetics, we teach apologetics, and sometimes we just have fun.

Let me bring in my co -host here, Mr. Tom Shepard. Hey, everybody. How you doing?

How you doing, Andrew? Yeah, I know. It's very cold where you are. You had to put the air conditioning on in your 85 degree weather.

Yeah. Thanks. This whole, this entire week is in the 80s here in Texas. It is.

It is blistering, but good news. Next week, it'll be 25 and snow. Well, the good, the good news is the good news is that I happen to know some cold is coming your way because you plan to go to the

Built to Conquer conference coming up. I am. I am planning on that, but that's, that's going to be in Bartsville, Oklahoma.

And for the record, everybody here, we're going to hold Tom to this, but Tom said that if Brandon Scalf gets into a cold plunge, he will follow.

Well, I got news for you, sir. Caleb Gordon, who is sponsoring the

Built to Conquer conference, and I do want to encourage folks go to CalebGordon .org to get the details of this conference.

Some great speakers, Brandon Scalf, probably one of the best. He'll be there. I will be there. There's going to be a lot of good speakers there.

You can go to CalebGordon .org to check it out. But I will say this, Caleb said jokingly that if I was to find a place where we can do a cold plunge, he will get into one.

He learned not to call my bluff, Tom. This is, this is not good. I, as a matter of fact,

I kind of want to renege that if I do have to go into a cold plunge that I would rather,

I would rather it not be after Brandon Scalf. Well, then you can go in before that's, that's your choice.

But if I had to do it, I would, I would have to go in first. I sent a cold plunge down to, to Caleb Gordon and he has a cold plunge that he should be setting up or have set up that will be nice and cold for us, getting it ready.

And so he, he, he thought he would just say that and it wouldn't be a big deal, but he didn't realize calling my bluff.

Yes. So when we, Andrew, when we do this cold plunge thing or when you do it or when everybody else does it, is it, is there a time limit?

Is there a three to five minutes, three? That's an awfully long time, but we can catch a cold at, you know.

Oh this will be fun. I am going to record this and maybe we'll play the video for you listeners, watchers.

So all right. What do we got tonight? All right. Uh, we are, I, I, we are going to do tonight is an open

Q and a. So we don't have a set topic though. If you look at the topic, I said Trump is on fire and open

Q and a, because we're going to do some things in the beginning where we will talk about some politics, but for an apologetic reason.

So I'm going to say this upfront. We are going to go through a number of issues today that, uh, we'll go through dealing in the political realm.

And I want to show you how these apply, you know, to apologetics, how to look at these with debate, things like that.

So with that, I was going to do some in news segments, but actually some of this will be in the news.

But there's, there's some character backstage and I don't know, should we bring this character in?

I, he's definitely a character. I think, I, I think we should only bring him in if he can, if he could provide maybe like that wonderful smell of rebound leather.

Could you do that for, Oh yeah, he could provide it for himself. See, look at him sniffing that Bible.

He sniffs Bible. He's a Bible sniffer. This, this is an LSB, not a rebound, but that didn't sound good saying it's

LSD with sniffing. Oh wait, that's wrong. Drugs and sorry. This is better than drugs.

Who in the world came up with the idea with, with a initials L S B. Yeah. Like just,

I was like, when I heard that, I was like, why don't you do like the legacy standard version, L S V.

That would sound like. I feel like that sounds more like you'd get higher on that. I think. A legacy standard version.

Let's see those ribbons in that, in that Bible there, Aaron. Yeah. Are you sure, Tom? You sure you want to see these ribbons?

Are they flashy? So these come with short ribbons and they're just like usually Brown. And I put, um, these color and longer.

So I think it looks beautiful with the four. You got an N and four, not three. I did four because, you know, you got to do a lot more referencing than they really allow originally.

Yeah. So usually when I do like a, a three ribbon Bible, I'll, I'll put, you know, one in the

Old Testament one, one, you know, in the Psalm or, you know, Proverbs area, and then one in the new.

So with four, I don't know, you know, that's almost, Hey, that's nothing special there. Here's, I got long ribbons on mine.

I got, I got four. They provided some good ones on that. Yeah. This is my LSB. It's my

MacArthur study Bible. They did some long ribbons on the study Bible. That was good. But you know, that's the

LSB version of the study Bible. Yeah, it is. You could tell, you know, my, my striving fraternity

LSB has long ribbons too. Who made that? STG? This is a

Jeffrey Rice. I actually designed this one with him as my name on it.

We, we, we got it, you know, with striving fraternities, SFE right there.

I got five ribbons cause I wanted that with the purple. Oh, you're matching Debbie. Yeah. My wife has five ribbons as well.

Yeah. I got the purple, the black, the gold. One of the things I love, I think it's the, this is the neatest thing.

The neatest thing is that when I hold it flat like this, I don't know if this shows up, it's gold. And if you open it, it turns purple.

It is like, it is the coolest thing. That's probably unicorn leather too. Yeah. I don't know how you guys do that.

Yeah. This is. That's so that the way that works is it's just page die over the gold gilding.

So, uh, it kind of just works together. Yeah. Very cool. Yeah. Jeffrey made this one for me.

I, I, this is my, my main, now my main preaching Bible. That way when people ask questions, read that font.

I mean that, that way when people actually, actually ask you questions, you can go right to John MacArthur study notes and tell you what the passage means.

Well, if I, if I choose this blue one, yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. I, I had a number of people that were asking, you guys know that I'm selling my library.

So I had a number of people that were asking, um, I had

Peale contact me and say, are you selling your Jeffrey Rice, you know, Bibles? Yeah. I said, no, they have my name on it.

Look. So yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, other ones have my name, but still, no, I'm not selling those.

Are you crazy? Yeah. Totally. I mean, it is fun when you're selling books and I, I, it's people that said that basically

I should just give them my books and I should ship it to the

Philippines. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's right. Isn't your wife Filipino?

No. She's from Hong Kong. Oh, okay. That's not Filipino. Yeah. That's British.

I figured that out right after he said it. I figured out that. You laughed. My wife is

British. I didn't know that. I thought she was Filipino. Hong Kong was owned by great

Britain when she was born. Didn't we have part of that too? And just say she's American. No, we had, we owned

Philippines for a time along with the Spanish. And so, but yeah, no, we have, um, you know, we have, um, uh,

Britain, Britain owned Hong Kong and give back to the Chinese. Yeah. Now we had control over Hong Kong for a while though.

Right. Didn't we? Wasn't it us that gave it back to the Chinese? No, that, that was, it was, uh,

Charles King. Charles was there. Oh, okay. Now King Charles. But yeah. Right. All right.

So let's, let's get into Aaron. Why don't you let, we were talking about these Bibles with some people are going, why, what's

Aaron talking about? Why don't you talk about some of what you do? Yeah. So obviously you brought up, brought up, uh,

Jeffrey Rice post Tenebrouse Lux Bible rebinding, and he's kind of one of the, um, originators, um, if you will,

I'm sure many people before him were rebinding Bibles, of course. Um, however, it definitely popularized after Jeff and, um, matter of fact, we talked about this last time with Tom and Brayden that, uh, the rebinding market, if you will, we're talking about taking either an old

Bible that's falling apart and re enforcing the spine and putting the pages back together.

That's, that's kind of, uh, my, my area, um, less Jeff's Jeff does it, but I think

Jeff mostly takes newer text blocks because people will send him the brand new ones and say, Hey, I want this in a really nice goat skin or calf skin or cow hide cover.

So what's your, what most people are doing with rebinds, uh, the consumer that is, is just wanting to have like a really nice, just like you were just showing, um, something that's one going to last a real long time.

Number two, that's just a beautiful to hold and, um, works well with whatever they're doing, studying or, uh, preaching.

And so some people use new text blocks, but what I love doing mostly at Beacon Hill, um, binding, that's the name of the, that's what

I named the company. A Beacon Hill binding is, uh, I got into it because, uh, there was people at church, um, that would come up to me and, uh, they knew

I loved books, not just, you know, of course the consumption of the content, but they really knew that I loved, um, binding and stuff like that.

I was kind of interested in it. Um, and so, and that's the way I've always been with, uh, carpentry.

And, um, I grew up on a farm doing all sorts of stuff, taking apart cars and dirt bikes and all that stuff.

So, uh, it just, once I got saved, uh, my interest was in the things of God, even as far as the materials.

So, uh, what, what a book was covered in, what a Bible was covered in. So, uh, my interest grew out of that.

And so people coming up to me at church and saying, Hey, uh, do you think you'd do anything with this? And I was like, uh,

I, I probably could, but like, I was always so nervous because it was people's precious Bibles and I didn't have all the, um, tools to do it.

Well, finally about, uh, I don't know, six months ago or so, um, the Lord opened the door and I got all the tools and all the things that I needed.

I started practicing and it's just been a blessing to, for, um, to, to put people's

Bibles back in their hands that I love handing them back over to them. And this is what's great about working locally too.

I do work outside. Like people send me messages from all over the country, but, um, and I love doing that as well.

But when you have it in the local church, it's just awesome. Bring, bringing a Bible back to a brother or sister. And they're just like, this is amazing.

I never expected that I would have my John MacArthur study Bible that I originally was saved under, um, you know, back in my hands like this.

And then they get to enjoy it for the rest of their life and maybe even give it to their kids, you know? Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. That is the thing.

I mean, I had my, my new King James, it's still on my shelf behind me. And, um, that I thought about doing that.

It was just, I, I, I couldn't see spending the money and this is just for that Bible. I don't read that anymore, but it has all my notes in it.

It was like my first real Bible that I took notes in. So I want to keep it. Pages like on a part, you could see like pages where my thumb was just rubbing, like reading, you could tell that I was in Matthew five through seven a lot, because as we're teaching it through Sunday school, because my thumb must've been there a lot that the pages wore off.

And so I thought about rebinding it, but it was, I just like, do I really want to pay the money to rebind a

Bible? I won't use. Sure. Yeah. And I, a lot of people, but I, oh,

I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. I mean, I want it for my kids to have it, but I'm not going to use it. So I, I was like, ah, so I never did do that.

Yeah. And I was just going to add that a lot of people, you know, sometimes

I, I counsel them to, to do the same thing. And, you know, if you're, if you don't know that this is exactly what you want, don't, don't rebind it, just keep it the way it is because it's precious the way all those memories that you're talking about.

Yeah. And so, yeah, Jeffrey Rice, really, I mean, there were a lot of premium Bibles out there, you know, you could get the nice premium leather and, and, and, but they were not handcrafted.

And I think really that's what Jeffrey, I mean, people used to do a handcrafted. Right. Then it's all machine crafted.

And he, he really revitalized this, the idea of the handcrafted, nice leather, you know, uh, work.

Yep. And so, yeah. And he was also forced to do it. It was his, you know, it was a really interesting backstory about how, uh, no pun intended there that, uh, you know, being a roofer and then not being able to physically do that work.

So the Lord opened the door for him to rebind. So, um, he really did pave the way, um, for rebinders.

And I think a lot of rebinders certainly appreciate, uh, that foundation, but, um, the, like I said, the rebinding market has grown.

You go on the internet now and you type in, you know, or you just go on one of the Facebook groups on one of the

Bible Facebook groups, which there's so many. And you just ask somebody, Hey, does anybody know a good rebinder up?

Here's a list of a thousand. Yeah. Um, and so you have so many to choose from, which is great because.

Another thing is, is that, um, it could be, I talked about this last time. It can kind of be a fad just like anything else.

So there's going to be people in it, unfortunately, that, uh, aren't going to treat it sort of with, um, with the dignity and respect that it needs to be treated with people's

Bibles. And hopefully they can find the right people that love them and want to do that. And we should say, you know, folks, you're hearing

Aaron say, I said this last time I said this last time. So when was the last time? So we're saying, okay, so you may know, or may not know, because we're doing this show on two different channels right now, which is open air theology and striving for eternity.

So, uh, that streaming on both. And so Aaron was on the open air theology podcast.

Um, which is, you know, on Saturday nights. And he had been on there with, with those guys.

And that's why it feels like home for him here being like he was on the same one, but this is a totally different show. Oh, haps is here.

We're in trouble. Big haps, haps, Addison haps. Addison should come on in here and ask questions.

All right. So let's get to some things. I said, we want to take politics. I wanted to do this because, well, there, there is so much in the news.

I like to do a couple minutes of in the news and how to think Christian biblically about stuff in the news.

And the problem is there's just way too much going on in the news. That's why I titled this

Trump is on fire. Like I can't keep up with all the good news. Yes.

I mean, it's just amazing what it's been only two weeks and all of a sudden common sense is back.

We know what a boy is and we know what a girl is. Why? And I would even say it's good news because because of the discovery of the bad news, a lot of stuff has been revealed.

Oh, wow. Yes. And that's why some people are completely losing their minds. We're going to get into that.

But let me there's one thing I wanted to address that. I was very shocked when

I woke up in the morning and I got several messages from people asking me, did you hear or read what

Trump said about Gaza? Yeah. And I'm like, and the first person that sent this to me said, did you see that Trump wants to take over Gaza?

Right. And I'm like, someone's sending a joke. But then after like five or six,

I'm going, I got to go find out what he actually said. And so it was something that,

OK, my first reaction in hearing it. And this is the reason we always I said,

I'm going to bring everything we're going to talk about back to apologetics. This is going to bring back to it.

The thing we always have to do is when we hear something and we're going to do apologetics, do not jump to a knee jerk reaction to it.

Do the research. I say that because my knee jerk reaction when

I heard that was that's a really bad idea. Why you have generation after generation of people who were raised to believe that Israel is the cause of all of the the bad things that ever happened to them.

And you're not going to get people just to turn around quickly. I mean, there's a reason that if people don't understand the politics of the

Middle East, it's really this simple. You have a bunch of Arab countries that used to be warring against each other.

And when Israel, when the United Kingdom took over the land we now call

Israel, they started talking about a state of Israel.

And all of the the Arab countries finally had one thing to to be in agreement about.

And so they they were in agreement to hate Israel and to stop that. So the

UK did not do that in what was it? 1914 or whenever they first that they got control of that land.

And but there were many Jewish people that were already living there. Those were called

Sephardic Jews. And you had many that were Jewish people that were in the

Europe that were coming in. Those are called Ashkenazi Jews, in case you ever hear those terms.

That's basically what it what it is. And actually, the Sephardic Jewish people did not like the, you know, the the other

Jewish people that were moving in. It was like, no, this is our land, not your land. But that used to be

Jewish and Arab people there. By the way, all of those people before 1948 that lived in that land, both

Jew and Arab, they were called Palestinians. Yeah.

Just a little thing, if you want to know, there were no Palestinian people, there was no Palestinian country.

There never was. There's no Palestinian language or culture. Palestine was a derogatory term for that land given by the

Romans, and it got its name from the Philistines, who were always the thorn in the side of the

Jewish people in the Old Testament. So that's where the name comes from. And so the

U .K. was going to wanted to make it a state. So what you ended up having happening is it during a

Jewish during a Middle East peace deal, part of that deal was that the the

Arabs that live there would get Gaza. Well, Gaza and Hamas as Gaza and where Hezbollah is just the

West Bank. So here's the thing. People talk to you about, you know, the this idea that people would be forced out of a land.

Well, the only you know, this just some history you may not know. What ended up happening was it was actually there was a forced.

People moving out of their homes into another land, it was the Jewish, the

Israeli army that went into that went into the area,

Gaza, and forced every Jewish person out of that land. People don't talk about that much, but that is exactly what happened.

It was the Jews that were forced out out of the West Bank and Gaza. You're talking about.

Yep. They were forced out of West Bank in Gaza because that was going to be controlled by by, you know,

Gaza and the West Bank. They were going to have their own authority, but the land still was owed was owned by Israel.

And so what you had. So this is just the facts of history. Now, I'm saying that because, you know, when you have people that the only thing that unites them is hitting a similar enemy.

This is the reason why they ended up doing with, you know, Hamas and Hezbollah is they run these things, these areas.

They stay in power with the hatred for Israel. The rest of the countries stay all kind of, you know, stop fighting one another because of these two groups that are fighting

Israel. Right. There's not you know, they have created a group that is that is their whole mindset is terrorist thinking.

Sure. And that's all they know. And that's why Egypt and Jordan and Syria and all these other countries don't want to take these people in.

Egypt, which is right on the border of Gaza, close the the border there and won't let anyone in of their own.

These are people that would agree with them in the religion. And but they don't let them in. I said to say when

I first heard Trump say that he was going to take that over, it was like, are you nuts? Like these people are not going to just like the mistake in thinking that like Democrats have is like, well, if we just if we just give people money, they're going to feel they're going to be like Democrats are, where someone gives them money.

They they feel they have to keep getting that money. Right. And if you don't believe me, this is what

Elon Musk just drove Democrats nuts with, because he basically is exposing where all the money is being spent and they're going they've lost their mind.

And we're going to see how much they've lost their mind in a moment. But when you deal with people that have a religious belief like they do in the

Middle East, you can give them money, but that money is not going to influence. They'll say, hey, thanks for the money.

But their religion is still the primary thing. Right. What do you think?

And I don't know if you've heard. I haven't heard. What was Israel's response to Trump's idea about taking over Gaza?

You know, it was interesting. I heard one commentator make the point that if you look at Bibi Bibi Netanyahu's face, it almost looked like he like Trump didn't tell him about it.

Like it was. I don't want to let him know. He did later come out and say that this is

Trump is one of the boldest presidents. I mean, he said because he did say, we got to do something different. This is, you know, what we can't keep doing the same thing.

It never that hasn't worked before. Why do you think it's going to work the next time? But that's what what's been happening.

Everyone just keeps trying to say this is how Trump got for peace deals in the Middle East. Everyone said you can't do a peace deal without first resolving the differences with Jewish people, the

Palestinians or the Israelites and the Palestinians. And Trump said, no, why don't we do peace deals with all the other

Arab countries? And he was he was on the he did four of them. So, you know, the the thing is, is that I'm saying this to say one of the things that I was concerned about is the you're dealing with people that just because you give them money, like we gave money,

I think it was to ISIS for, you know, for food. Like that's now they're going to be like, oh, we're going to be nice to America because we're getting money.

I mean, there's people in North Carolina that still haven't gotten their houses fixed, you know, and and you know, people in California, all people in California, you just wait.

People in California, they're starting to realize now the laws. Oh, boy, are people losing their minds.

So California is not always going to be a pain for them to get to rebuild their homes after they burn down because of the fact that there's all the the regulations they have there.

But oh, now now these really wealthy people are discovering that the law is that you can't build a home in like in L .A.

County. There's a limit of like how many wealthy homes you can have without having like low income housing in the same area.

So all these people want to build a house, but they have to make sure that there's enough like minorities living in their next door to them.

Well, I can't wait to see how that's going to turn out. That'll be interesting. But here's the thing at my first thing was to look at this and say

Trump's plan is not going to work. Why? Because you can't take people that have been told this is the single cause of all their problems.

And just say, well, if we build you nice hotels, you're going to you're going to love it and get along with your neighbors. Hmm. And then

I realized that's not what he's asking. He wants to actually remove them from the area temporarily to go through and get rid of all the bombs and everything else, build the place up and then have them come back to a totally different place.

Is he is he almost wanting to make it like a Kuwait? You know, back in 1991, we go in, you know, and I mean,

Kuwait now. I haven't heard the news on them lately, but it's completely Americanized. Yeah, it's that's what he's claiming.

But then again, you know, when it's Trump, there's you always have to remember he whenever he says you have to realize it's part of a deal he's doing.

Right. Like what he says is not always what he wants. Like he's negotiating tool.

Yeah, he's saying this and he's mentioning like the other countries should have a say in this. Like basically saying you guys want to get in on like fixing this problem.

And so that's so I'm saying that to say my first reaction, my gut reaction without listening to it wasn't till later in the day that I actually got to hear what he was actually saying.

And I went, oh, that may not that may work. That may be a thing. Now, here's the thing.

Some people lost their mind. Why? Well, because he's doing a, you know, basically an ethnic cleansing.

All right. And that, you know, ethnic cleansing is supposedly bad.

Well, he's not doing it in the in the fact killing people, though. Well, that's there is a difference between, you know, ethnic cleansing and genocide.

OK, OK. So. Palestinians, the the the

Hamas Hezbollah in their charter. Is the elimination of Israelites, it is to it is genocide, it is to wipe them out.

That's in their charter. OK, that's genocide. The what he's promoting, proposing at least, is is ethnic cleansing where you move them out.

By the way, that's happening in South Africa right now. No one seems to mind. In fact, what you have is many people who are calling that are supporting the, you know, river to the sea, which is wipe out all of Israel.

That's genocide. The very same people who are upset with Trump for that are supporting the people that want.

Worse than ethnic cleansing, they want genocide. Right. So let me let me play a clip.

Of of one such person now, I'm surprised that it really took a whole two weeks for this.

But here's here is some breaking news. And now that I know that Tom is very up on the news, this will be the first time he's he hears this.

Yeah. And still I rise, Mr. Speaker, and I rise today,

Mr. Speaker, with a to whom it may concern message to whom it may concern. Ethnic cleansing in Gaza is not a joke, especially when it emanates from the president of the

United States, the most powerful person in the world, when he has the ability to perfect what he says.

Ethnic cleansing in Gaza is no joke. And the prime minister of Israel should be ashamed, knowing the history of this people to stand there and allow such things to be said.

Ethnic cleansing has been a crime against humanity. And I stand here today in the well to denounce what he was said, to denounce what the president said, to denounce the complicity of the prime minister of Israel and to remind people that Dr.

King was right. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. And injustice in Gaza is a threat to justice in the

United States of America. I rise to announce that the movement to impeach the president has begun.

I rise to announce that I will bring articles of impeachment against the president for dastardly deeds and dastardly deeds done.

I also rise to say that the impeachment movement is going to be a grass up movement, not a top down.

The people have got to move forward. The people have to demand it. And when the people demand it, it will be done.

I did it before. I laid the foundation for impeachment and it was done. Nobody knows more about it than I.

And I know that it's time for us to lay the foundation again. On some issues, it is better to stand alone than not stand at all.

On this issue, I stand alone, but I stand for justice. I yield back the balance of my time.

The gentleman yields back. OK, so first off, it's kind of funny he admits he yields that he stands alone.

Usually when people talk to individuals like in Congress, they don't say to whom it it it appears.

But, you know, hold on a second. I got to check my the Constitution here. President impeachment for dastardly deeds.

I don't see that in there. Dastardly deeds, dastardly deeds spoken and dastardly deeds done.

That's like having church discipline for somebody who has a bad attitude. Yeah. Yeah. I mean.

Don't be a little known fact. This will be a fun quiz for you, too.

Do you know what the what the requirement is now for impeachment?

What do you have? What would someone have to do to for a president to be impeached? Aaron, that's that's a question for you, because I get all my news from my wife.

Yeah, I'm honestly I'm on the I'm on the back. I'm learning from Andrew and I love it. Yeah. So so it would be, you know, high crimes and misdemeanors.

Right. So you have to do you have to do something that's that's that is, you know, what they'd call high crime.

They would have to look like. Now, it doesn't actually have to be a crime. It's just the appearance.

Very interesting thing. Wait, so so in other words, you don't have to actually another.

So let's start with the beginning. Who is the first person that they were bringing up articles of impeachment on?

Ever in history? Yep. Tom, that's for you.

It was it was Richard Nixon. OK, I miss that day. They were looking to they were looking to impeach

Nixon for the water water gate cover up. Got it. You didn't have evidence.

OK, who was you guys should at least know this. Do you know who the first president that was impeached was?

It was Nixon. Nixon, wasn't it? Nope. Nixon resigned. Oh, well, let's see.

Trump was impeached. So was he the first one? No, no. Was it anyone in the audience help them out?

I'm not going to give this one. This is this should be easy. Yeah, this is your lifetimes is

Clinton. Bill Clinton. That's right. Oh, that's right. Yeah. OK, so here is a little tidbit of history, the irony of history.

OK, when a certain individual was trying to get Nixon impeached.

This individual, who is a lawyer, claimed that they could not find the articles of impeachment and therefore wrote a document that would be for the articles of impeachment that would read as treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

Hmm. The person who did that so that they would be able to impeach

Nixon because they didn't have enough evidence to impeach Nixon, got her own husband impeached by her own handiwork.

That's right. Hillary Clinton, in an attempt to get Nixon impeached by any means possible, right, managed to get her husband impeached because had she not changed that for Nixon, who resigned trip, her husband wouldn't have been able to be impeached.

Wow. Isn't that a little thing of history? Yeah, we serve a sovereign God. That's right.

I mean, I really wonder if it, you know, like after Bill Clinton got impeached, he came home and was like, why did you do that?

You just said, but but here's the thing. You listen to the guy.

What is he doing? He's giving rhetoric right now. Al Green, I want to I want to I want to give some things to think about.

I said, I'm going to bring this to apologetics. The faster, the better. Yeah. He was like, well, is the everyday patriot who's coming, that's

Huff, right? I think I see his face down there. Is that Chris? It looks like Huff. Yeah. Yeah, there he is.

You you he should have taken my spot, man, because the everyday patriot. I mean, look at his tag name. He wouldn't know the answer to all of this.

He even posts stuff on Facebook with working out. I mean, he's hardcore. I don't know that. That's how I look like him, but it looks like him.

He'll. Yeah, he said, yeah, yeah, it's me. OK, so Chris Huff knows how to get in here because he's come in often on his own.

So he could he knows how to come in. But here's the thing. My here's the thing to do, folks, when it comes to apologetics.

Don't just run with what you may think is something. In other words, I listened to Al Green right there who's going to impeach the president.

He managed to call the articles impeachment before. He's going to do it again, even if he stands alone. He's going to do it because of genocide.

What do you think? Do you think quick poll? Do you think that Al Green, who just wants to said he wants to impeach

Trump there? Do you think that he would be supportive of Palestinians? Do you think he's someone who's going to be in alignment with their river to the sea?

You know, a knee jerk reaction might say yes. In fact, a quick search led me to the fact that he supports a two state proposal.

OK, however, looking at his own website, his own government website, he does state.

So here's the thing we it would be a mistake to listen to something like that. And to jump to the conclusion that, well, he supports people that are that support genocide.

Sure, you would assume that like people might assume that. And some people, when it comes to apologetics or when it comes to defending a view they have, you see us online all the time.

If you don't agree with me on this, they jump to wild conclusions without looking at any support.

You heard it in the intro, actually, when we had Godless grandma on here and she tried she tried to make a really failed argument when when

I you know, she was trying to imply that Christianity is so bad, it's you know, it's forces its beliefs on people.

Who's forcing you to be a Christian? Where's who's forcing you to go to church? It's like Project 2025. She hadn't even read it.

Yeah, you didn't even know that Democrats had one called Act Blue 2025. It's really just the result of we live in an emotional culture.

It has we live in an emotional response culture. So, you know, you know, facts don't care about your feelings.

And that's a Ben Shapiro line. If you want the the Andrew Rappaport version. Yeah, it is.

My quote, my quote is because we live in a culture that where the truth doesn't matter, the narrative matters.

It's all about the narrative. Right. And so I could quickly jump on an Al Green and say he probably he's supporting genocide.

But does he? Well, this is what it actually says on his website. And I still

I still rise today. I stand before you with a heavy heart, burdened with the great sadness today.

I am responding to a moral imperative driven by the dictates of my conscience.

My conscience dictates that I continue to condemn hate speech and violence being propagated against the

Jews. Hmm. Hmm. This is November 1st, by the way. On October 8th,

I tweeted on X platform. Quote, former majority leader, you know,

Steny Hoyer is right. Quote, Jews must have a right to live safely and securely in their ancestral homeland.

In this terrifying hour, I stand with them and condemn the hideous terror attacks in the strongest possible terms, unquote.

So Al didn't say that, but he agreed with that. No. So I'm putting that out to say

I think this was just an easy way to have an example of we can have and we see this all the time.

And I just I find that by using this as an example, we can this is something

I think all as all of us Christians, we can we can look at this together and have like a common enemy like Arabs have with Israel and we can find agreement.

But when it comes to social media, if you're post mill and I'm premill, oh, boy, we all got to make the worst arguments against each other and say, well, you believe this, you know, because we we jump to conclusion.

So we have to recognize we could be guilty of this. So I didn't just say, oh, well, Al Green, you know,

I could have come on here. So he's he's supporting of the Palestinians, you know, and they want to do far worse than just ethnic cleansing.

They want to do genocide. Could have done that. But what I do, I went and looked up what he actually believes.

If you don't do that in apologetics, you're asking for trouble, especially if we misrepresent the the argument that we're trying to make.

Right. And yeah, that's exactly I was just because Humble Clay keeps commenting here and.

Bearing false witness is the key. Yeah, let's see if you find that, put that out here, it is.

Yeah, and that's the whole thing, we have to be careful with that. We have to make sure that we are not.

We're not doing things that are misrepresenting someone's position.

Right. Especially as a matter of truth, because. Yeah. As a matter of fact, we would want to probably look at the more scholarly and truthful, the most conservative people for for whatever position that they hold to.

We would want to look at their to be able to to make an argument. In other words, if we're going to go make an argument against historical premillennialism, well, let's go with the guy.

Let's go with George Ladd. Let's let's go see what he believes before I make an assumption of what

I think he believes. Well, you have to go with the folks that are. Yeah, you want to go with people that are the credible.

Right. People, right. So you don't want to go to the extremes. Yeah. Yeah. You wouldn't want to go to John Hagee and attack sensationalism.

Right. You wouldn't want to. And then compare him with John MacArthur. That's not fair.

Yeah. Yeah. So, Aaron, you were going to say something.

Who knows? OK. Yeah. Go ahead. So then here's the thing. And I got it.

I got another clip I'm going to have a lot of fun with, because I I told I told Tom that we were going to have

AOC on the show. And and he's like, who's that? I don't know. Andrea Ortiz, Cortez, whatever.

She's got a name where if you mess it up, she yells at you. That's why everyone calls her AOC. He's like, who's that? He had to ask his wife.

So, yeah, nice. So, all right, we're going to have her on in a moment, really.

She's going to say some great things. Wonderful, wonderful. She's going to be on live, you think? Sort of. Oh, oh,

OK. Sort of good. Because I have some things to tell her or video that she recorded.

Here's the thing, you know, what you end up seeing is that. And this is going to be the second thing.

So the first thing I want us to think about when we do apologetics. OK. I said from the beginning, this show is not just doing apologetics, which you get to see, sometimes we do debates, things like that.

It's also to teach it. And I should have said I forgot from the beginning, but feel free to share this episode right now on social media if you guys enjoy it and get your questions in, because the second half of the hour, we plan to answer your questions.

So if you have questions, shoot them in the chat. You can go to I think I think you can you can do.

You can comment on YouTube and X, I think, are the ways to comment. And Andrews had no political questions, only theological.

No, I'm just kidding. Oh, no. That's going to be out the window this time. If if you're watching on X, shoot a car, try to see if you can shoot a comment just so I could see if those come in.

But I know that I know comments come in through the YouTube channel. So here's the thing. And and if you see good comments or questions,

Tom, just star them so that we can get to them. Yeah. And we'll put those up.

We're going to say something. Well, yeah, I was actually going to. Yeah, I'm interested in that. OK. OK.

Yeah, we could get to that. The Christian nationalist one. Yeah.

All right. So the first thing is we got to make sure that we properly represent the other side.

OK. Right. The other thing that we have to be careful of is when we speak to an echo chamber, even when we might say the most ridiculous things, our echo chamber will agree with us if they hate the other side.

And we have to be careful because there is a danger in speaking to your echo chamber, right?

Just because you're going to get the attaboys, you're going to get the likes, you're going to get the agreement. It is more important to be on the side of truth than on the side of.

You know, having people like you and, you know, you know, I guess a quote that I'm well known for saying is, you know, people don't water down the gospel because they care about souls.

They water down the gospel because they want to be liked. And quite frankly, we have to get over ourselves. And I'm on the

I was going to say on the flip side of that, too, I've been on the other side of that, where matter of fact, I'm in this group that we're talking about baptismal regeneration.

And these people don't even agree with each other, but they're just so against the Baptist that it doesn't matter what

I say. It doesn't matter what verse I put up there. It's just, oh, well, that's not what it means. It's just totally dismissed.

And so actually, so when you're actually you can't make a legitimate argument and you lose respect for, you know,

I've lost respect for some of the people that I'm talking to. And that's exactly what happens.

I always use the example of when I was in New York City doing some open air and I had this guy, he was there with his family.

So it was he, his wife, his two sons and their wives. And he he's a

Ph .D. professor at a university. And he tells me he understands Christianity and he's describing that Christians believe in three gods.

Right. Well, I immediately reject everything he said. And at the end of the conversation, I actually said to him, I said in this, you know, we're talking for like almost two hours.

I said in the time that we've spoken, is there anything that I have said about Islam that you feel

I misrepresented your view? And he said, no, actually, you have a very good understanding of Islam.

I said, now, several times throughout this conversation, have I not corrected you on what you claim

Christianity believes? He's like, well, yeah. I said, but you got that from the

Koran. Is yeah. I said, so it tells you the Koran has a wrong view of Christianity.

It means the author of the Koran cannot be God. Right. So you should read the New Testament and know what the what

Christianity actually teaches. Right. And he said, you have a valid point. Maybe I'll get a New Testament and read it.

You know, the idea there is if I misrepresented Islam to him, would he have listened to me?

No, he would have done exactly what I did. I just feel like, yeah, you don't know what you're talking about. Right.

Yeah. Tom, you don't know much about politics. Let me see. Do you do you at least know who or what you put up here from from?

Yeah. Framework matters. We need to always be mindful of our own framework. So, yeah.

So not only my framework, but I also need to know the whoever I'm making an argument against and their framework.

In other words, presuppositions matter. And we all have our own presuppositions. And that's that's important.

Important point. And the way you just phrased it, Tom. Yeah. When I teach hermeneutics, one of the first rules of learning how to interpret the

Bible is to be willing to question your own presuppositions. Yeah. Definitely one of us bring our presuppositions to the scripture.

And if we are unwilling to correct our presupposition, we could have problems.

Right. We'll read into the text always. Correct. Definitely. Well, and I think that I think it's where it's dangerous is when a person says, well,

I don't have any. I'm just, you know, I don't have any at all.

I'm just reading the Bible. And this is I'm, you know, put me out on an island and and I could read it. And this is what you're going to come up with every time.

And that's either straight, dishonest or or just or just ignorant. Yeah. Yeah.

I would say most of the time dishonest. It's kind of like the person who says, I have no creed about the Bible. Right.

In which the person says, is that your creed? No creed, but Christ. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Do you do you know who is Christ? Yeah. Who? Elon Musk is.

I do. I do. I know him. Because you don't you didn't know who AOC was, so I didn't know.

You know, I thought it was some organization. Who's who is Elon Musk? Elon Musk is he's the owner of Tesla.

He has the rockets flying him and, you know, all that. So you're saying he's one of the richest.

He's one of the richest and I think probably the most influential men in the world. And obviously and obviously he is also

Hitler. He's he's. Yeah. And he's the head of the what's the new forge, right?

Doge Doge, something like that. Yeah. So so would you say he's I mean, being like a rocket scientist, would he seem smart?

I think he would be extremely smart. Yes. So I figure this would be a great example. Humble Clay says he's the richest man in the universe.

Yeah, because there's no there's no one no other humans, no no other men but those on Earth. So so this is a good example of speaking to your echo chamber where you could say something that's the most outlandish thing.

And people will in the echo chamber agree with it because they hate the the other person.

Check this out. This is hey, AOC, welcome to for joining us here. AOC, would you mind telling us what you think about Elon Musk?

Dude is probably one of the most unintelligent billionaires I have ever met or seen, our witness, which, you know, you can probably even glean that from watching people on TV.

Anyways, all of that is to say is that they don't do their homework. Clearly, like they're putting 19 year olds in at the

Treasury. This dude is not smart. And and the danger in not in the lack of intelligence and the lack of expertise that Elon has.

I mean, this guy is one of the most morally vacant, but also. Just.

Least knowledgeable about these systems that we really know of.

And but the point is, is that what that means is that they're going to hit a button.

Inevitably, they are going to hit a button and things can go sideways. All right.

So what you have there is she is she is claiming.

Let me. What is that? OK, so she's claiming.

Where is that? Must hit on that. Elon Musk is an idiot. So that he's got 20 year olds, 20 year olds that don't know what they're doing.

Yeah, he's got 20 year olds with college degrees, which most people graduate college and like in their 20s, if they're 19 and graduated college,

I don't think they're knuckleheads. Yeah. But she said something like they're 20 year olds.

Is she talking about the muskrats? She's she she's talking about these people that Elon Musk hired to work with him, with those to to look at, you know, corporate waste.

Right. In this case, government. And all she did was talk about their age and she criticized their age.

She criticized Musk for being unintelligent, not knowing what he's doing.

Doesn't understand how these things work. OK, first off, the guy is currently running like five major companies.

He recreated the space industry in the United States. Yeah. OK, we had no we had no space program.

We were paying the Russians 82 million dollars per person to get them up to the space station.

Wow. We closed down. He recreated it. And he's done what no one else has been able to do in the space industry is have a rocket that's completely reusable.

And he's the idiot. Yeah. Right. He's he he took Tesla, which 10 years ago wasn't even a company.

And when he took it over, it was ready to fold. And the Tesla Model Y is the number one selling car in America.

Now, I didn't say the number one selling EV. It's the number one selling car.

Yeah, that's incredible. OK, sounds like a dumb dude. Genius. Yeah. But she calls him an idiot because it plays to the echo chamber because they so hate him.

They go out and say, yeah, he's an idiot. He's he doesn't know what he's doing. These 20 somethings.

Well, yeah. OK. She's got a thing against 20 somethings. And I already saw, you know,

Humble Clay. He said the bar wench calling Musk stupid.

Yeah. What was she doing? I mean, what was her early career? Well, you know, she she ended up going to high school, so she's she's got a high school education.

That that's that's pretty good. Yeah. And this is

I'm just looking up on the page about her. And it's, you know, in high school and college, you know.

She she, you know, studied microbiology. As a category, you know, in a fair.

Oh, I'm sorry. That wasn't actually for an education. That was just an affair, like a school fair.

All right. Well, you know, my background. Yeah, I mean, she's pretty smart. So what kind of job did she have?

Well, after college, she moved back to the Bronx so that she could get a job as a a bartender and a waitress.

She was a house. I mean, have you ever had to memorize all those drinks? That's that's some homework.

That's some homework. Yeah. Yeah. Chemistry. So the point the point is, is it's coming from that background and she's trying to make a very poor argument against somebody who's obviously proven himself as capable.

Proven yourself. Yeah. Proven this. Now, here's the thing. So she she did she did go to college.

Right. But she was a bartender. Now, it's kind of interesting because, you know, she's now in Congress.

Would you like to take a guess of how old she was when she ran for Congress?

Just give me the decade. Like, was she in her teens, her 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s?

What do you think? 20s? I would think 20s because she looks, what, in her 30s. Yeah. Yeah.

She would. She was 29 when she ran for Congress. That puts her in the 20s.

Oh, so. So she was a bartender. Who ended up in 2016 working for Bernie Sanders campaign.

Hmm. So I'm just confused here, because at 2016, for those who don't know, you know, she was born in 1989.

So she was 27. When. Wow. So she got out of college, you figure, 22.

So for five years, what did she do? She was a bartender and a waitress and then went to work for Bernie Sanders in his campaign in 2016 as someone in her 20s.

Should we then assume, taking her logic, that someone in their 20s just can't.

They don't know what they're doing. Right. Would that be a reasonable conclusion? It would be.

I mean, in comparison on her scale, yeah. Yeah. So by her standard, it makes her disqualified because what what in bartending trained her to be a congresswoman?

Nothing. Yeah, not at all. Right. So what what gives

Musk the ability to do what he's doing? Well, he's run, you know, five efficient companies.

Yeah, definitely. He's he's what you created, bought, sold more companies, you know, and been able to scale them to be streamlined.

That's what gives him the ability to do it. Right. Yeah. I think it's interesting. And Andrew, yeah,

Andrew Graham wrote that. Guess who drives a Tesla? AOC. So. Oh, really?

Yeah. Oh, Andrew, you crack me up. This is our friend from down under. He's he is from Australia.

Or if you want to get him upset, just tell me he's from New Zealand. But Andrew, Andrew does.

Andrew does share something in common with Elon. What's that? Well, one of the things that proves that Elon is quite intelligent is he has something called

Asperger's, which you can only have if you're high, high intelligence. And Andrew and him share that.

I remember correctly. And Andrew is going to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Andrew also has that. So, yeah, it's it's something that that someone you have.

It is someone that's on the autism scale with a very high functioning brain, high intelligence.

So. OK, he's saying Asperger's is not. Where was that one there?

He typed so fast, I got it wrong. He says Asperger's, not autism. I thought I thought it was a branch of autism,

Andrew. But I could be wrong. I'm not going to I won't question Andrew. He's a pretty smart dude.

Not Andrew, the one common thing from Australia. Yeah. Yes. And he's right. Metzlick has it, too.

So here's the thing. I want you to notice you could look at this and almost any person.

If you just remove the politics of it, any person looking at AOC and looking at Elon Musk.

Is going to assume Elon Musk is really wicked smart. And AOC is kind of known as the dumbest person in Congress.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, she didn't even use a microphone in the clip that you just showed you. She's echoing all over the place.

You know, there's a lot of bad things you could say. But yeah, definitely. I mean, it doesn't make any sense. But see, the thing is, is that when we look when we look for an argument,

I'm going to pick on you a little bit that are the argument of, well, she doesn't know how to use a microphone. Right. Yeah. Well, she's she's not a podcaster.

She's not you know, she's not looking to. Right. And that would be the same thing she's doing. Right. She's she's she's going after someone with just going, well, he's not doing this.

So he must be that. Right. But see, that's what I'm saying is, though, even as silly as she looked by doing that, even the narrative that she was trying to promote, just just to your point, everybody who hates

Elon would side with her based on just that that one minute clip that we just saw, that everything that she said was gospel, even though it was absolutely ridiculous.

Yeah. And Kathy is saying Elon Musk owns six companies and in different industries, which is the crazy thing.

I mean, he's got Starlink. He's got SpaceX. He's got Tesla. By the way, PayPal is

I think he was the startup of it. Yeah. Anyone ever hear of this chat GPT? Yeah.

He was involved in that. Yeah. And you're going to say some. Yeah, he's thinking about buying

Beacon Hill Binding, but I won't let it go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did hear he was thinking about buying the

Cowboys, too, which might be as profitable as Beacon Hill. Yeah, I know you're talking football, but that's about as far as I can go.

I just I don't even know anything about football. I just know by the joke that he was saying I'm not profitable.

I think he was saying the Cowboys aren't like comparing me to them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But anyway. Yeah. So but do you notice how in her in her echo chamber, how many people do you think are going to buy

Beacon Hill Binding? Totally were on board with what she was saying, clapping and saying this was great. Everybody who hates conservatism, everyone, look, you look at the people who are so I mean,

Elon was the liberal golden boy. I mean, he's he's he really is the one that like we would not talk about EVs, electronic vehicles, if it wasn't for Elon Musk.

And that's what the left is all about. Like they love the EVs, right? And he he basically.

Pretty much created that industry. You know, he recreated the the space industry in America.

I mean, like you're talking a guy who is. We're leaving out we're leaving out Twitter to recreated free speech in America.

Yes. Yeah. Buying X. And, you know, so you look at this. Well, look at look at X is a good example.

I think X is why Trump picked him to do this is, you know, he took X and was able to take it from a company where they, you know, for folks that don't know the history, when he looked into buying it.

He the based on their numbers, they should have been worth 44 billion dollars, but after he found out that half of their their accounts are bots that they created so that all the liberals would have lots of followers.

Right. He ended up. Yeah. Yeah. He it was worth half of what he paid for, and yet he could still make it profitable.

Right. I mean, it was kind of funny when all the liberals cried, because, you know, I remember watching one liberal that lost like 75 percent of the followers in a single day and couldn't understand it.

It's and someone was like, it's because Elon got rid of all the bots. Right. It's like, yeah, you weren't as popular as he thought it was.

Twitter was just trying to boast to you. That's incredible. So so what

I want us to see with this, though, is that people can talk to an echo chamber. I see this in Christianity all the time.

I saw a guy this is many years ago who is bashing dispensationalism. And I remember talking to him privately and I said, dude, you know that dispensationalists do not believe this something he had posted.

And he literally said, yeah, I know. But everyone will clicks it for the light.

You know, I get the likes for it. So he was saying things specifically because he knew his crowd would say this.

Let me get myself in trouble. You know who I think does this a lot? Who and Tom, you know that I'm friends with this person.

Right. Because he is is late in flowers. Yeah. Definitely.

And I've told this late. I was just going to say I was just going to say not only dispensationalism, but Calvinism.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And Chris is right. Sensationism is a big target for misrepresentation.

Yeah. Well, there's there's you name it. There's plenty of things. Yeah. That we can see that.

I mean, we can give this lots of different examples of this. Right. And the problem is that you see a lot of people that build platforms that don't do ministry.

They build platforms. Right. Because especially guys who know what they're saying isn't true.

They're saying it. It's they want. Yeah, look, you would agree that those people aren't interested in truth, but they're interested in self platform.

Correct. Yes. I mean, this is nothing I haven't said to Leighton privately. Oh, it's not like I'm saying some publicly.

I wouldn't say to him privately. But I really personally believe that he he is.

He or at least used to be great with an evangelism. If folks watch when

I had him on here a few weeks ago or months ago, all of us were really let down when

I tried to give him this open door at the end to say, share the gospel. And he never got to the gospel.

I was really disappointed in that. I was actually kind of surprised by that, because in years past, when we first started this show, he would he would come in and he would.

I mean, when we get an unbeliever comes in, he would share the gospel. Great. Right. You know, and it's something, though, where I think he got known when after his debate with James White and all the people who hate

Calvinism just started listening to him. And then and everything now comes through that funnel of anti Calvinism.

I mean, even when we used to hear on Striving Fraternity, we did an online Bible study through Ephesians and we came to a pastor that had absolutely nothing to do with Calvinism.

But he came in and made it all about Calvinism. And at the end, I wrote, you know, is that is that anything what you're saying?

Is that in this text? He's like, well, no. But that's that's his deal. That's his MO. That's his you know, that he wants to attack.

And it gets the attention. And look, there's the cessationists will do that against the charismatics.

Charismatics, they'll do that against the cessationists. Calvinists against, you know, provisionalists, if you want to use that term.

It's it's just something that when we do apologetics, I'm using these examples because I'm sure everybody here can very easily see what

AOC is doing and be like, she's nuts. Yeah.

But you know, like I'm going to do it. Yeah. So, yeah, I believe that there's a lot of problems with the extremes of Calvinism.

Yeah, there's a lot of problems with the extremes of anything, of anything. So, yeah, this is the comment you just read is from from Brother John.

John is a Canadian fellow. So so let me let me tell you something about John.

Yeah. Right. John is a charismatic. He is someone who there's some big names in charismatic in the charismatic movement, in the word of faith movement that he knows personally.

Yeah. And his family is his family friends with very, very well known word of faith folks.

Yeah. And I see Aaron just popped in. We'll bring him bring him in. Hey, Aaron.

How are you doing, man? A different Aaron, this is I should say Aaron Bruce now who is with Aaron Dufros.

So so John there from Canada, as you know, he's made comments about cessationism.

I responded and said misrepresentation. What what did he do?

And this is because this is a good example of not being in the echo chamber. John is a great example of this realized, you know, hey.

And John, if you want to come in, we could we could talk about it. It'd be great. But he's you know, he he just was like, hey, you're saying

I misrepresented you. What did I say wrong? And I tell him and we went back and forth. And we wasn't really getting clear what we were communicating to each other.

So he said, can we pick up a phone call? And so we got up and talked on the phone, talked to each other, right?

Communicated. So he understood. And what did he end up doing? He took a bunch of his videos down because he said, you know, after talking with Andrew and listening to Jim Osmond and others that Andrew pointed me to,

I misrepresent I'm taking it down. That's a man of character. That's what he's not looking.

By the way, the reason he won't come in is because even though he's got a YouTube channel, he's he does real ministry.

He's a street preacher. OK, but he's he like doesn't want to come on here.

I know this. I'm probably embarrassing him because he he doesn't think highly of himself. He's he is a pretty smart dude, but he just wants to do what he feels

God called him to do. Yeah. But see, he didn't stick in his echo chamber and just go where even though he had a lot of people liking the videos he was doing against cessationists, he took it down when he realized he made a misrepresentation.

Right. So that's a person that that wants to know truth and understand what what

God wants him to understand as as he's communicated through the scriptures. Correct.

Yeah, that's what we all should be striving for. That's right. Yeah. So so that was the second thing that I wanted to point out.

So the first is we want to make sure that we're, you know, that we understand what the other side believes.

Yeah. We don't want to speak to our echo chamber. I wanted to point out I played a clip at the beginning of Godless Grandma.

Godless Grandma was an interesting individual. Now, Aaron, Aaron Dufault, Fuse, pronounce your last name for me, so I'm going to keep mispronouncing it.

Do you have you ever seen Shawshank Redemption? Yes. Why is why is

Aaron Brewster shaking his head now? Andrew is incapable of understanding pop culture references. OK, well,

I mean, this is from the 90s and it's such a classic. But nonetheless, the guy's name was

Andy Dufresne. And so my my last name is French, so you don't pronounce that. So it's just Dufresne.

Dufresne. OK, so Aaron Dufresne and Tom, don't get the godless grandma.

You guys got to just go back and watch that. Interesting. But he did something that I find very interesting.

It's a way of avoiding discussion. Hmm. And if you go back and you see, what did she do?

And that's why I played the clip that that I played. She ended up arguing like basically going into politics to avoid discussing the issues because she started getting stuck.

She want to talk textual criticism with me. She got stuck when she came upon someone that, you know, actually has read

Bart Ehrman. Both his scholarly and his mass produced works.

And maybe understood a little bit more about him than she did. And she I genuinely think if you go back and watch that,

I genuinely think she she got nervous with it. She was planning on using this on her own chant that show on her own channel.

She never did. And what did she do to avoid doing that?

She switched topics into something she thought would be her saving thing. Politics. If you watched a couple of weeks ago, we had or might have been last week.

I can't remember where we had Greg Moore from Dead Man Walking podcast in and we had discussed the fact that, you know, we had two people discussing

Christian nationalism. If you guys remember that, do you remember when that guy,

Tim, the progressive, that guy that claims he's a Christian, he's not a Christian because the

Bible is kind of clear on what a Christian is. But and since he had to redefine what the gospel is, he couldn't have accepted the real

Christian message. But Tim, Tim Whitaker had ended up switching with me.

There's a point where you see he switches to talk politics. And so what did

I do quickly? Nailed them on some political things and then switch back to the topic. There is something

I want you to if you go back to those episodes, you'll see that happen. This is something what what people used to do maybe 10 plus years ago is and Tom, you you're on the streets doing open air evangelism.

You've probably seen this. But 10 plus years ago, what people would do is I would start sharing the gospel and people would start disagreeing.

They'd get stuck in a conversation and I'd get this question. Well, do you believe in a literal six day creation?

Yeah, definitely. And when I say yes, I like, oh, you can't believe you could be that dumb.

And then and then when you prove that, then they'll bounce to something else. Well, what about the person in Cambodia that's never heard the gospel?

You know, that type of thing. So they just keep on trying to get you off topic. And it's important to stay on Christ.

And I think the reason they jumped to the six day creation because they they only heard one thing during that echo chamber.

They think there's no like no reasonable person will believe anything else. Well, that's what you saw with Godless grandma and Tim Whitaker.

They they appear. And this is the thing I want you guys to notice, because as as Christian apologists, we have to be careful.

Can we study politics and be up on it? Yeah, that's fine. I obviously am. And Tom obviously isn't.

But. We have to be careful when doing apologetics, because I see a trend that's going on nowadays is where they don't jump into the evolution arguments, they jump into political arguments.

And you heard that with the beginning of the show with Godless grandma. Have you have you read Project 2025?

Right now, can I do I need to get into defending Project 2025? Can I sit there? Yeah, I actually had read some of it.

Not all of it. But could I defend it? Sure, I could have. What did I do? Well, I pointed out two things.

But she read the Democrats version of Project 2025. You didn't even know it existed.

Yeah. Then what did I do? I got right back to the topic. What in that document? Because my question that I was asking is, what is forcing you?

How are Christians forcing you to be a Christian? And she argued Project 2025. So what did

I do? OK, what in that Project 2025 is telling you you have to be in church on Sunday, telling you you have to be a

Christian? Her response is, I don't know. Just you got to get right back to the subject. They use this as a ploy to avoid the discussion that they don't like.

And so when you get people doing that, the recommendation that I have for you is don't fall for the bait.

If you want to answer an answer quickly, knock it out of the way and then get right back to the topic that they clearly want to avoid.

I will say that all of the advice that Andrew just gave is really helpful in apologetics, really helpful in evangelism, really helpful in debate.

And that means it's all very helpful in parenting. It is so funny to me.

I've watched it happen in counseling. I've watched it happen at church. I've watched it happen in school where kids,

I don't I honestly don't believe they know what they're doing. I think it's just in in we humans, we have this self -preservation mode where we will start saying just ridiculous things just to kind of feel like we have some level of control.

Kids do this all the time, which doesn't surprise me. What surprises me is when the parents do exactly what

Andrew is encouraging us not to do, they they play into it and they're literally being played by the the the undeliberate, non -deliberate, you know, ramblings of their children.

And it blows my mind. So whoever you are, listen to Andrew, don't give in to it. And John Harris, you're saying blue tape now for folks.

And I do thank him for doing it, because that shows me that I can see comments from X. So and all of you are probably going, what in the world does blue tape have to do with this?

Well, Aaron was just talking about parenting, and we have a book that you can get at striving for .org in the in the store.

The subtitle is, I think, like blue tape parenting, but it's it's sound like persistent.

I forget the full title of the book, but it's on parenting. It's probably the only parenting book we have right now in there.

But another one probably is going to be coming soon that I'll mention. But it's it's basically the the the pastor who officiated the wedding for my daughter.

He has eight kids. They came up with something and wrote a book on the parenting. And one of the things they did in parenting is and my daughter does this is they train their children using blue tape.

I thought it was the strangest thing. I got to tell you, I did. I really did. My grandson, though, watching him,

I'm going, I wish I knew about this when I had kids. My daughter, instead of having like all these rules and restricting them in a playpen where they have no room to move, she just puts blue tape.

He's my grandson has one rule. Don't cross the blue tape. That's it. Anything in the blue tape is fine.

And as a young child, that's all he has. And it's amazing because now that he's two and he's walking around, it's like there's just one rule.

He's good with it. So and I told John Harris about that book. And so I hope, John, that you're using that with your daughter, who is going to be crawling soon.

But, you know, I really wish it's this that you put up from Jacob. Yeah. So I wanted to mention that.

So one of the things that we were talking about is, you know, understanding everybody else's position. Well, you got to read the comments on to because the listeners don't know what you're doing.

So Jacob Meyer, we're in a group together. He's posted. He is. This reminds me of our conversation in the S .G. group with Tom.

So we're on this in this chat group. I'm the only Reformed Baptist in this group.

And I think that I'm conversating with about 20 other Presbyterians. And we're supposed to be having an honest discussion about covenant theology, that regeneration, how all that works out.

Well, I get into this group and I'm discovering that these aren't your classic run of the mill Presbyterians.

These are oatmeal stout federal vision Presbyterians that hold to baptismal regeneration.

And so the conversation totally. So here I'm thinking I'm dealing with the people that that hold to classic covenantalism and, you know, would still hold to the same truths that we would hold to that a person is regenerated, born again, made alive by the

Holy Spirit, by faith alone in Christ alone. That's not what they hold to. So the argument in that room has gotten very, very shaky.

And so it's like you even even we're talking about, Andrew, is that that sometimes people just want to be heard.

And so they'll they'll shout out something. It doesn't matter what I say. That even they even the people in that group don't agree with each other fully on the topic, but they're against the

Baptist in the room. You know, it doesn't matter what I say. It doesn't matter what verse I go to. I could go that we have access into this grace in which we stand through faith, that that is our entrance into the grace in which we stand is through faith alone.

It doesn't matter how many times I could post that verse. They will they will make it up.

So they will make up something different. But Jacob, he's he's he's so they'll go to the historic position.

So interesting enough. So Jacob, so you guys know on Open Air Theology next Saturday, Andrew is going to be there.

We're going to have Braden Patterson. Jacob is going to have two of his friends with him. I believe it's

Scott. Right, Jacob? And the guy by the name of I'll shoot. Who else was it? Brent, I think, or something.

We'll find their names when we show up on their names. But it's going to be next week. And we're going to be talking about that. We're going to be

Saturday night on Open Air Theology, which will be on the same the same channels that you're watching us now.

So, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It should be a good conversation. And we've we've already agreed it's not going to be a debate platform, but we're going to just have an open discussion and and make sure that if there are people that are watching that aren't in Christ, that we make sure that this is a conversation that is polite, respectable, and that we would be

God honoring in it. Yeah. All right. So let's get to some of the questions that folks have emailed in.

We got this question that was emailed in by Melissa. She and I'm just going to read it as I received it.

And then we can, you know, maybe, Tom, you run it through a to say, what did she really mean?

Look, I can't I can't criticize people. Remember, I'm the interpreter here. Remember, I got

I can interpret hap. I can interpret anybody. If you if you get if you can understand what haps types, man, you got you do anyone is right.

But she says is Eastern Orthodox Christians or does it depend on their some that are the same as that aren't?

So probably talking about a spectrum. Yeah, I think what she's asking is, are Eastern Orthodox Christian?

Singular, you know, or does it depend on that? Some are and some aren't. That's that's what

I think she's saying. And and so Eastern Orthodoxy is

I'm just going to say right now I see Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy on the rise.

I can't figure it out other than the fact that people are reacting to people having gone so far woke, denying

God that the pendulum is swinging and they want a veil of religion.

They want a veil of Christianity. They don't want the real thing. There's another you're 100 percent right.

There's another level to it, though. And a few years ago, the number of leftists were protesting climate change.

And it was so weird. They were out on this grassy area. I don't remember what city they were in.

Let me make sure I understand. They're protesting for it or against it. Against it, of course. And we still wait.

Leftists were were protesting against climate change. They get all the things that that that supposedly add up and create climate change, which is now

I understand. So they were they were like kneeling on the ground.

Some of them lying on the ground, if I remember correctly. And all of them had like plastic Walmart bags. And they're doing these weird things with it, right?

They're rubbing it on the ground and they're lifting it up in the air. It looks like some type of like pagan ritual that was going on.

OK, Scott Anuel from G3 ministry made an observation. He said human beings, something to the effect of human beings crave liturgy.

And it's true whether you're pagan or otherwise. We were created to worship and God has woven liturgy into the very fiber of humanity's worship.

For those of you who might hear the word liturgy and aren't certain what that means, it's basically the forms and the functions, the things that we do, the steps that we go through in oftentimes a formal corporate worship type of a setting.

But it doesn't have to be solely that. And Catholics, as we know, and Eastern Orthodox both have and Anglicans as well, if I'm not mistaken, all have a much more concrete liturgy as part of their corporate worship and part of their expectations for spiritual growth and maturity.

Than the Baptists and the reformed and the Presbyterians do. And I honestly think that and I say this as a

Baptist, I believe that we're missing the mark a little bit on this, not because the church has prescribed liturgy that we're not following.

Right. But that we don't understand the power and the value of liturgy. Not like if you don't do liturgy our way, you're not saved and you're going to hell or whatever else.

But just that in the church, we can have these traditions and we can have these forms and these functions that that bring our community together and help us to to lean into this thing that God has created in us.

So I think Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox are on the rise to a large degree because people are seeing the empty liturgy of the left and the foolishness of it.

And they're craving liturgy that matters. And the Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox are the only people who are offering it to them.

Well, they have the high liturgy. Yeah. Yeah. So it's all about the liturgy.

Unlike where it is. Yeah. So it's all superficial. You're right. There's a formalism to it, but there's a craving for it that they can find.

It looks reverent. It looks reverent. There's an order and perspicuity to it that is.

And certainly can be. I mean, but that's the thing, too, right? It ends up becoming solely attractive to the flesh itself.

That's where the substance doesn't lie. The substance in a in a in a conservative church, if you will, like I'm at Grace Community Church, right?

And pretty much the whole world knows the liturgy of Grace Community Church because of TV. And but like you were saying,

Aaron, it better serves us to think clearly, sing clearly and act clearly in a way that brings.

But but I was going to say brings us into the ability to think clearly about God.

I don't even know if that whole sentence made sense. But but there's substance there simply because the spirit of God is there in the midst of those things, because the people that I know and I can only speak for where I'm at right at a local church, the people that I know that I gather with to that liturgy do not worship that liturgy.

They come and they are their hearts are prepared in prayer to say, Lord, use these things to help us to see you clearly in the scripture and what we sing and so on and so forth.

That's where the substance lies. But if you're going into a church service simply for the smoke and, you know, crosses and stuff, then.

But I agree with Aaron that it's so that's that makes so much sense that that are the time that we're living in right now.

I have a friend, dear friend, who I used to go through Owen's mortification of sin with him.

And all of a sudden he's in a different state. And all of a sudden I see him posting about he's he's totally left

Protestantism. And he's got in his room pictures of Mary and he's going to a

Catholic church now and stuff. And it's just like I was like, whoa, that was out of left field. So anyway, yeah, it's been talking about this.

Like we've noticed it for a while and we've been like, we just can't put our finger on why people are going this route.

And I think I think, Aaron, you make a really good point. Which one? Sorry, both of us.

We both know that it's attractive. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's a good point. I will say I will say I put this in the comments.

Just a really quick thing. If anyone who's listening to this is interested to learn some more about what would be considered

Protestant conservative liturgy. Specifically in corporate worship.

I'd really encourage you guys to check out my podcast, The Celebration of God, because that is that's a really big part.

And it's not the entirety of it. There's a lot that we talk about on that podcast, but that's a big part that we that we hit on.

And I would encourage you guys go through the introductory episodes of that. Yeah, which you can find on the Christian podcast community.

So so the question was, is Eastern, is Eastern Orthodox Christians? Are they are they

Christians? And the fact that it's like you had said the word substance, the object of our faith is a person of Christ.

And so we have we have a belief that in the person and work of Christ alone and what he accomplished on the cross, if we believe that that's how a person can become a

Christian, that we repent of our sins. We turn away from the sins that God hates, turn towards Christ and trust that in his in his act of obedience, you know, he fulfilled everything that we are all called to do to live the life that we cannot do.

He did with the purpose of going to the cross, laying down his life on the cross. He was resurrected on the third day, raised from the dead, you know, and he's seated at the right hand of the father.

He is fully God. He is fully man. And based on that substance, based on the object of our faith, being having faith alone in Christ alone for eternal life.

That's what a Christian is. So are the individually in either or in Eastern Orthodox, they would not hold to that.

So in I'm talking about the religion itself, they were probably corporately.

Yes. But individually, I think that there are people in in that in in that system where they may be truly trusting in the person and work of Christ alone for eternal life.

But that would to say that would be to say is that that they're not holding to what their their religion believes.

Hey, guys, I don't want to interrupt. I thank you so much for having me on. I got to get the Bible study.

So have a good rest of your podcast. I hope God bless Aaron. Nice rebound Bible to take with you to Bible study.

Yes, sir. Thank you. Right. So so the finally I'm the only Aaron I hate competition.

Yeah. One of the things with the question that we have to recognize is if you speak to someone who's either an

Orthodox, it is a very, very different. Thinking in their system than you would be used to in a

Protestant Christianity is the difference between Western thinking and Eastern thinking. We are used to in in Christianity of having.

Well, you know, behind me, I have I have I even have my book. What do we what do we believe? That's a systematic theology, right?

We have a system that we can build upon, that we could say we put it in theological categories.

They do not have that. They they appeal to councils and early church fathers.

And a lot of it is I don't know what the word to use other than mysticism. And so there is they worship icons.

And so there's there's a lot of things that it's hard for us to understand when when we're talking with an

Eastern Orthodox, what they mean. So I'm just going to say the reason I find the question hard to answer is because I don't always know what they mean by what they say.

If there's anyone that knows someone that's either an Orthodox, I'd love to have them come in and just we could spend a couple of hours just asking them questions and maybe digging in deeper.

So let me read the comment real quick. This is Kent Bergeron. I'm sorry if I mispronounce your name.

So this is one of the gentlemen that is in the group that we were talking about earlier. He calls himself he's a

Presbyterian. He would say he's historical Presbyterian, but would also very, very much seems to hold

Anglican or Eastern Orthodox or even Rome going back to that liturgy and everything else.

So, Kent, if I don't misrepresent you, I would he's one of the ones that would say that baptism, the waters of baptism would actually regenerate a person.

This is something similar that Eastern Orthodox would believe in. I would call that heresy.

I would call that heresy because we're taking away that it's Christ alone for eternal life. So I just wanted to mention him, if you guys have anything.

And the comment that he says is the Orthodox are certainly Christian. Yeah, is what he's saying.

Yes. So I don't know that I would say they're certainly Christian. I'm Baptist. I wouldn't say that all

Baptists are certainly Christian. So, yeah, but if you use it the way that most Catholics use the word

Christian, just as this, you know, it's more of a title because you belong to the Catholic Church, then he's probably right.

But unfortunately, what do we mean by Christian? Exactly. And so when we do apologetics, definitions matter.

Yes, that's right. So, you know, I we do have to give a word to sponsors because, well, they they sponsor the show.

But, you know, sometimes I just I kind of just. Tom, I just wish we'd quit.

Just quit. That's. Oh, Tom, this is for you. This is this is from some guy named A .M.

Brewster. He's a hack. But you need this. It says quit. How to stop family strife for good.

Tom, you need to get this book so you can stop causing strife for your with your wife. My I'll tell you, my

I am blessed to have a wonderful wife. All I got to do is bring home the money and everything is organized and perfect at home.

She's so wonderful. Yeah, but. Right. But but Tom, but Tom, one of the most important lessons we learn in that book is that every family has strife.

Yeah. And when we think that our home doesn't have strife. Oh, I have a revelation that we're in trouble.

I am in deep trouble. There you go. Yeah. So I will say this to have a godly wife is man.

It is a good thing. Amen. Yeah. And so, Aaron, Aaron Brewster here, one of the speakers, a striving attorney has his first book out.

It's called Quit how to stop family strife for good. I encourage you.

It's only about 100 pages. Quick read. Helpful read the neat thing. And I told him this when

I interviewed him on my rap report podcast. I don't know books that do this, but Tom checks out.

You see it. You see what this has? Oh, it's a QR code. Even though it's only 100 pages, he's got a ton of QR codes throughout the book so that you can go and get, you know, dig in deeper on any section with with stuff that he has other resources on.

So it's a really neat idea. So 500 pages into 100. You know, I knew that there was something about Aaron when

I met him at the Open Air Theology Conference last year. He instead of giving me his card, he said, just let me see your phone.

And I go tap my phone to his. And all of a sudden, the book on Aaron Brewster comes about his

Web page and everything you need to know about him. It was it was pretty good. Yeah. Also, one of the things we just wanted

Aaron's not a sponsor here, but we wanted to recommend it. I do. We do have sponsors and one would be

Squirrelly Joe's Coffee. If you want to get yourself some great Christian owned business that is making coffee, good coffee, woke free coffee.

Actually, you want to just buy their coffee so you can get on their mailing list because he cracks me up with the newsletters he writes.

But great coffee. And you're supporting a Christian family at the same time. So better to get some woke free coffee from a

Christian than woke free coffee from some. That's right. Pagan, who is just about guns.

I'm just saying because that's the other, you know, woke free company that they all talk about. Rather people when they have a good product.

Yeah, I mean, we do need I mean, doesn't isn't coffee supposed to make us. Oh, not woke, but awake.

OK. Yeah, you got that wrong. That's right. So you want to be awake, not woke. So go go to striving for eternity .org

slash coffee. It always go there to reorder. If you go there on your first on your first order, use the promo code

SFE. It either gets you 20 percent off or your first bag free. I forget which because he changed it. But use the code

SFE. But if you always go to striving for eternity .org slash coffee, when you reorder, it helps him know that you found out about him through us.

I will say I'm copywriting it right now. I own the phrase be awake, not awoke.

That's right. Yeah, I don't think you do. I do. I do. I just said it. I just think you can at least quote

Tom Shepard in that. No, because I put the in there. You go back and listen to it. Go back and listen to it.

Mine's different. Yeah. Wake, not awoke. Yeah. But I think I think I heard that on Daily Wire.

So really? Oh, plagiarism. Right. So let's deal with this next question that got sent in.

This was an email that I received. Oh, this is going to take up the last 20 minutes and probably more.

But I will read it as I I will read it as I received it. And then we could tear it apart because I do have issues with some of it.

All right. I should say this before we read this. If you guys have been enjoying the show, if you've been getting a lot out of it, please share this.

That is what encourages people to come back and watch every week. And I do encourage you if you're if you're listening.

I mean, we do turn this into a of a audio podcast. So it is a podcast that you can listen to every week if you want.

But I will say that it is more fun when you're here live and more fun when you join us.

So please come in. I invite you guys in every week to ask questions, but some just seem to want to use the chat or email.

So this the question I received in the email was, what should we think about men that fall like Ravi Zacharias, Lawson and Alistair Begg?

OK. It's an interesting trio. Yes. Yeah. One of these things is not like the other.

Thank you. That's true. That's and that's the thing. So let me I want to show me that I'll start with with Alistair Begg.

I don't think Alistair Begg fell. OK, I would agree.

I, I, I get that people wanted to cancel him from the Shepherds Conference. But I don't think

Alistair Begg. And I said this when this whole thing was happening. I don't think Alistair Begg sinned.

I, I argue, I might argue that he sinned in that he he he gave really bad advice that could easily lead people astray into making sinful decision and things like that.

I think maybe that was unwise, but maybe we could call this sin. But nothing like like disqualification from ministry sin.

No, but here's the thing, because I mean, he he my, you know, shortly after this, it was enough blowback that he did resign or retire from the church, which is which is still pending.

It's he's he's he is retiring coming up. He's retiring. Yeah. And so the issue is this.

There's one thing that everybody I've heard that talks about Alistair Begg. There's one thing everyone has not dealt with.

And that is that when Alistair Begg, he made the comment, it was there was an interview. The the thing is, is that he said when he tried, we tried to explain it afterwards is first off, remember, he's a pastor, so he's not going to share details of counseling.

OK. I cannot, in my mind, figure a good reason for him to give the advice to a grandmother to go to a homosexual wedding and give a gift to show that you love them.

OK. OK, I'll let you finish. I'm sorry. I'm saying I don't know a good reason for it. I mean, but.

But. The one thing that he said is, I would not give this advice to anyone else.

Right. The other thing was, is he he was specific as to what the gift was.

And that gift is a Bible. The gift was a Bible for I believe it was the sun or something like that.

And hopefully that they would pick it up in the hopes that they would pick up the Bible and that they would read it and be converted.

I don't know that that's necessarily shown support for the actual the wedding itself.

He did. Did he double down on saying that he wouldn't change that advice? He did. Yeah, I do think it was bad advice.

I don't like I said, I don't know if it was good or vice or bad in this sense. I don't know why he said it, because even though Kathy Deming is saying that the grandmother does not go to his church, but I don't know if I don't know.

To me, it sounded like he knew the grandmother and knew the family. And in that case, there may be something he knows, but is not at liberty to say.

But the key for me was when he said he wouldn't give this advice to anybody else. That told me there's something about this situation.

That he gave different advice than he'd give to anyone else. And so what was the original platform for where he said this, though?

Wasn't it originally a conversation? Wasn't it? It was an interview, I think. Yeah, it was it was someplace that was going to be public and that he didn't make that really important clarification until later.

Like it came across like this is this is, you know, truth to live by type of thing. Well, no, but remember, this this came this this interview came out.

It was nine months later that, you know, Protestia made a big deal of it. And and then it it got some traction.

Right. So that's why he he didn't respond to it until all of a sudden everyone was taking it a different way, maybe than he meant it.

Yeah. I'm not talking about the response so much. It's just about the statement in the moment. I mean, we all misspeak. I know how many times

I misspeak in a day for a whole interview. But it could he could be saying, hey, here's there's one time where this where this happened, where I did give advice for that, you know, like this.

But I just want to say this is that I think Alistair Begg is in a different category than Ravi and Lawson.

Definitely. Yes. OK. So so Alistair was easier to deal with.

Alistair's done. Let's deal with Lawson. I'm going to the hardest one last

Zacharias. Lawson, I again, I have maybe a different view here with Lawson.

Everyone is saying he's disqualified for life. I have a hard time saying he's disqualified for life when

I don't know what the sin was. We have gotten so many different reports.

Originally, we are told it was an inappropriate relationship. That sounded sexual.

But then it came out that it was not sexual, that both sides said it wasn't sexual. They said it wasn't even physical.

Now the girl has changed her mind and said it was physical, but not sexual.

Now there's people saying that she changed her mind and said it is sexual. So what actually was the sin?

Nobody mentioned it. Inappropriate relationship does not tell you anything. And so I have a hard time saying a man is is disqualified for ministry based upon ignorance.

And that's all I have is ignorance to what the sin is. That's true. But the people who did take the steps to disqualify him, you know, to you, they do.

They have. OK, OK, I'll get to that in a moment. There is a passage of scripture that tells us exactly how to handle situations like this.

And that's First Timothy, chapter five, verses 19 and 20, which reads, do not receive an accusation against an elder except upon the by the basis of two or three witnesses.

Those who continue in sin rebuke in the presence of all so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning.

Who's the all their local church? Well, this is in the in the context of local church. Now, the problem we have today is it's kind of a weirder thing because, you know, we think local church.

And yet now we have social media and things like that, where people influence farther than a local church.

Right. His influence definitely was. Yeah, correct. And so the argument is, well, he's disqualified and he's being he's being handled.

It's being handled like, OK, he's got to be he's disqualified for life. And yet we don't know what the sin is.

So why would people be afraid? We don't know what it is. OK, to Aaron's point now. I have one issue, some big issues.

That I have with the handling of Lawson is the fact that the church that came out to do the discipline, which is

Trinity Bible Church. Yeah. Is not the one that started the process.

The this this whatever the relationship was, was known that the girl tends Grace Community Church.

The family attended, attended. She's not there now. OK. Family was very involved at Grace Community Church.

And so. The this started, I mean, it was known at Grace Community Church among the elders, the some of the elders back in March, I think there was like nine months before it came out.

It was known. Nothing was being done about it until the father was going to come out.

And say something. And so it just seems odd that, you know, everyone's saying, well, it was being handled.

It didn't seem like it, at least from the little we know, it wasn't being handled until it was going to go public and then it was handled.

So I immediately, when I see something like that, have the question of, OK, now I'm really struggling because is it that there's damage control being done?

So now whose story do you like when you have someone that's constantly changing stories?

And then you have you have no real details. I'm just saying with Steve Lawson, could he be disqualified?

Yeah, he could be, depending on what the the the sin is. I've yet to hear

I've yet to hear that. And so I am cautious. So so we look at the three examples we're giving with with Begg, I don't think he sinned.

I just think he gave bad advice. OK. With Lawson, I'm ignorant.

I cannot say he's disqualified because I don't have enough information. And I think it's we have to.

You know, this goes back to some, Tom, you were referring to earlier in the show, is that people just are quick to jump on people.

Sure. To get to get your side and be with you. And I think that we have to be careful not to do that.

We have to show grace. I think that in a case like this. I would rather show grace until I clearly know someone is disqualified.

I think that's a good statement right there. I think that we know we are starting to know a little bit more as as time goes on.

I mean, but again, it's like you said. And then I think also we need to trust, you know,

God's design and the elders that that were at Trinity. You know, we have to trust the godly men that are that that were in ministry with him.

But see, that's even bizarre because. Yeah, we don't know. They're like he wasn't like, was he a member?

There's no questions with that. Right. So so I mean, they're saying if they're saying he's disqualified,

I might think he's disqualified because he's got pride issues. I mean, just if you've if you met with him and he just there's he has certain things that seem very prideful.

And so but that could have led to other things. Right. Sure. I just think that as Christians, we have to be careful not to jump on the bandwagon just because everyone else is saying, you know, oh, this big ministry is saying that's, you know, that he's bad.

You know, look, my my biggest question is with regards to the disqualification, not so much that he's disqualified.

I would say that if he is guilty of these sins, he's disqualified. I think there is.

I don't see anywhere in the scripture where it says permanent. Yeah, I don't I don't see that word permanent.

No, it isn't. And but I so I get asked this question and maybe this would be helpful to you.

Where would I draw the line on permanent disqualification? Yeah, I my personal thing is if someone uses the ministry or the sin that disqualifies them.

In other words, someone's using counseling to take advantage of women and get into sexual relations with them.

I would say you can't trust him back in that position where he can do that. Yeah. If a guy is, you know, embezzles from the church because of the the the the the influence he has as the pastor to have can say in the money.

You know, you know, or something like that. Maybe he did then be permanently disqualified.

But if the guy has a secular job and embezzles there. And not the church, maybe he could be restored.

You see what I'm saying? So that's just my personal thing. I can't I can't support it in scripture.

I acknowledge that. I will just to one point that you made about disqualification.

I'm just doing a quick perusal of this concept in scripture. It does seem to me that disqualification is kind of a one and done situation that there's not really a coming back from just two examples.

You know, in First Corinthians, Paul is talking about how he's working, how he's working so so hard to order, giving daddy a kiss.

Good night on the forehead with my girl. But in First Corinthians 927, he's he's he's striving.

He's he's making himself a slave. He's preaching others so he will not be disqualified. This is something he's fighting very hard against.

The Greek word does refer to failing a test to being worthless. But I also think it's interesting in Romans one twenty eight.

And this is the I'm using the LSB here, the legacy. Just as they did not see fit to acknowledge

God, God gave them over to the LSB says an unfit mind. Yeah, that's the same word.

So we see here that God giving them over to an unfit mind in Romans chapter one leads to this eventual thing.

There's none of these people who are coming back from God giving up on them and letting them fall into their depravity.

So I would say just just from a very cursory and I could totally be wrong and love to be showed that I'm wrong.

I would just say from a cursory thing, I think if a man is disqualifying himself for ministry, he's just qualified himself for ministry.

So let me let me deal with we're going to go a little bit long because I see some comments that I want to I want to get to that be fun.

But let me just deal with the Robbie situation. All right. So we've and if you go back the years when when the whole thing of Robbie happened, we we addressed it here.

All right, so Robbie Zacharias came out after he died, that there were things he was doing with women sexually, there was all this evidence on his phone.

And things like that and women that came forward after he died, that they did an investigation and found all this stuff.

OK, so I ask a quick question about that. I do want to ask a question. My big question about Zacharias was all of this was posthumously.

Right. Never had the opportunity to speak to it. I mean, when you say that that the evidence was clearly there like this.

It's OK. OK. OK. So so there you know, there was there was a lot of evidence as far as, you know, he had a woman that he brought in from another country that would travel with him to give him massages.

Supposedly she she and I think there were five women massages or masseuses that claimed similar stories.

OK, here's the thing. Do I would I disqualify Robbie Zacharias for his the sexual things that happened, you know, that we found out about after he died?

No. Why? Because I thought he was disqualified long before that. Robbie Zacharias claimed he had a

Ph .D. in a university that he taught at said university.

That said university, I read on their website years before Robbie Zacharias died.

They had a statement on their website that said to out to Robbie Zacharias never taught at our university.

Robbie Zacharias never got a degree at our university. It said, in fact, to our knowledge, Robbie Zacharias never stepped foot on our on our campus.

So Robbie Zacharias lied about his degree. Later, he got into issues of embezzlement of the ministry.

I happened to meet someone in in the airport that worked on was on the board at Robbie Zacharias Ministries at some point, and I asked him,

I brought up the issue of the lying over his degree. And the argument was he is making too big of an impact to worry about little things like that.

Hmm. And I said, but he's disqualified for ministry. But I would

I would even go even a little bit further. You know, one of the things that we know is that if we are children of God, God will discipline us.

You know, we will be find out our sin. We'll find out. And I think it's a it's it's it is God's grace that that God has exposed loss and sin.

Yeah. And it was God's sin. You know, God's God's in God's providence that he exposed the bad advice of of of Alistair Begg to give him a chance to repent or maybe rethink the advice that he had given, but definitely a grace for on Steve Lawson's part to put him out of ministry.

But when you look at Ravi, he was living a double life the entire entire way through, not being disciplined, not being found out.

And you just wonder that Aaron just quoted Romans one, you know, and there are three times in that text there where it says that God gave them over.

And I'm just wondering, is it is it a possibility that, you know, he was never of the faith?

He was never. Well, I wonder. I wonder if someone would have carried out what we read in First Timothy five earlier in his life.

Right. And this is the thing that didn't happen. Yeah. The big name. And they think, oh, we need to have you.

Look, you could go down the list. You have you have Stan Charles Stanley getting divorced. And in their own statement, he said he he he was disqualified.

He said he he needed to step down. And and it was his his board there that was like, oh, no, we need you for this ministry.

No, you don't. Right. Maybe if if Ravi was confronted on the and repented of lying about the university thing, the other things may not have happened.

Right. And the one thing I say in this whole thing, the one thing that bugs me is everyone's given

Lawson a hard time. But why is no one giving the elders of of Grace Community Church who knew about this for months a hard time for not doing anything?

Why did they not immediately come out? Why did they hold on to it for months and wait until the father was going to say something?

To me, it just looks like, oh, we got to do damage control. So could it be that they threw him under the bus more than they normally would have to cover that up?

I don't know. I would even I would even go so far as the elders at Trinity. You know, what kind of ecclesiology are we dealing with?

Why are we having another question? Because how how is he a member? OK, I want to get these this checkmate question here.

OK. All right. Just because so destroyer of noobs. This this sound just sounds like a guy that I'd love to come in at the beginning of the show sometime.

All right. He says solo script Torah is a heretical doctrine invented by Martin Luther in the year 1527.

OK. Destroyer of noobs. Little bit of a history lesson. No, Martin Luther didn't come up with this.

Martin Luther got it from a guy who lived 100 years before him. His name was

Jan Hus. And Jan Hus didn't get it on his own. He got it when he was when he was making copies of someone else's work.

John Wycliffe. So sorry, he didn't.

Martin Luther didn't invent it, but he goes on to say, in fact, when

Paul converted to the church that he once persecuted, he writes in First Timothy 315, the church is the pillar and ground of truth.

Therefore, he says, checkmate. OK, so what do we do here?

He references. First Timothy. Three, 15.

All right, so let's what do we do when we have we have someone referencing part of the verse notice, he doesn't give us the whole verse, always back up and read the context.

So what is the context here? Well, if we were to start with First Timothy, he's talking about, you know, the qualifications of elders at the beginning of First Timothy three down to verse seven and in verse eight, he's talking about the qualifications of deacons.

And then then he gets to verse 14.

So he's talking about the qualifications. And he says, I am writing these things to you, hoping to come to you before long.

But in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church, the living of the living

God, the pillar and support of the truth by by common confession.

Great is the mystery of godliness. He who who was revealed in the flesh was vindicated in the spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed in the world, taken up by glory.

OK, so when you're saying that he just quotes the church is the pillar and ground of truth.

Does the text say that? Yeah, kind of. I mean, he skipped a couple of words there, right?

Which which is the church of the living God. He skipped of the living God. But fine.

I don't think that changes what he's trying to say. And the pillar and support of the truth, he says pillar and ground of the truth.

But. The issue is, is that it's not the truth. It supports the truth.

But what was he saying here? He's writing them. He's giving them something that we call scripture.

And he said, in the case that I delay, I write so that you will know how to conduct oneself in the household of God.

So it's the scripture that the household of God would look at as the truth. Absolutely.

So I'm sorry to say, but your checkmate is, I guess, unchecked.

Well, and you and we could even go elsewhere in Timothy, second Timothy three, all scripture.

This is what scripture speaks about itself. All scripture is God breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training and righteous.

So the man of God may be equipped, having thoroughly been equipped for every good work.

The scripture is sufficient. It is our instruction for righteousness. It's what we need to be equipped and complete.

Yeah. John Stott said, you know, we can't agree on anything unless we first agree how to agree. So we would we would test everything by what the scripture says.

That is the standard for truth is also to this. This concept of pillars and foundations is used all throughout scripture.

Different things are said to be the foundation, including specifically God himself. And I had the passage right here in second

Timothy to 19. It refers to the firm foundation of God stands, having the seal. The Lord knows who those who are his goes on.

But also, you know, Peter is uses this concept to refer to himself as being a pillar in the church, not that that's like, you know, the first pope type of a concept, but just that the position that he had in the church in Revelation 312.

Jesus promises he who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the sanctuary of my God, and he will never go out from it anymore.

And I'll write on him the name of my God. A lot of this is speaking to exactly what Paul talks about, about us being built up into a church, just like he uses the metaphor about being a picture of being the body.

So to claim as the story of noobs is claiming that this one sentence, this one verse that refers to the church as the pillar and support of the truth completely contradicts

Sola Scriptura, shows that he doesn't understand the verse. He doesn't understand what

Sola Scriptura says. And Andrew, you presented it so well there that they're actually leaning on scripture in order to make the entire argument.

Yeah, it's just it's unfortunate. Well, I mean, so the word here for that we have for support is only used once in in the

New Testament. So therefore, we have to go to other things. Sure. So it's it's the idea of a support, a stay.

It can refer to a foundation. And I think he's trying to use it that way. The pillar is is used four times and it's it's used as a support.

So it's not that it's not the main thing. So he's trying to say ground probably is is the proof.

But I would love so destroyer of noobs. You know, why don't you come in when you can come in next week and let's talk about it?

I'm not sure what your position is. If you're trying to say you're if you're Roman Catholic or, you know, you have it.

Your image is a cross with an X through it. So maybe you're but this is why, you know, where was the comment?

I did start before this. But how much place is this? We love you, Andrew, but the chat is where it's at.

This is why I say, you know, you want to come in and watch it live because, man, the chat is on fire.

It always is. We did say we wanted to get to this Christian nationalism one. So Mr. Khan says.

A lot of so -called, quote, Christian nationals, nationalists, unquote, have a pathological hatred at any anyone ethnically

Jewish. He later said also about the Islam part, Pope Webben.

So I guess he's not a fan of Joel Webben. It seems to be kind of throwing an insult Webben's way.

But Pope Webben seems to imply that Islam is a Christian heresy, unquote, is not as bad as rabbinic

Judaism sounds rather vile. So I may.

OK, so let's deal with the first one. I can't. I mean, I have I don't know if John Harris is still watching.

He's he is would I think say he's a Christian nationalist that is very friendly with many in the camp there.

We've talked about it. I don't think he has a hatred toward anyone ethnically

Jewish. So I don't think, you know, now it says a lot. I think it's probably a little.

But those little might have loud voices. I mean, I guess Joe Webben has said that there's no ethnic

Jewish people today is what these people have come to me with. And it has had me on his live stream because he was he wanted to talk about it.

He's like, yes, you don't exist, Andrew. You're the cause of everything wrong.

Yeah, well, that's actually true about Andrew. Yeah, yeah. So. And so I don't

I don't follow them enough to know. Maybe you do. I will say as far as this comment, the second comment about, you know, the

Islam versus Judaism, I think there is something. I remember

Justin Peters saying that he felt that word of faith is worse than Islam because word of faith is is playing within the same camp.

Islam is clearly known as false to Christians. But word of faith is within the same camp.

Well, if you use that type of thinking, you could say that similar thing maybe with Judaism as well. Not everyone sees

Judaism as a completely separate camp. They see it as just an ignorant camp to the

Messiah. And so if it's in that sense, then maybe I could agree with him. But Tom, what were your thoughts?

So as far as anything outside of Christ would be in in the wrong camp, I do think that there's some aspect of, you know, the angel of light of, you know,

Satan comes in as an angel of light trying to deceive. And so there is a deception with the word of faith movement.

There's deception with anything that looks like Christianity, but that's not that's giving a false gospel.

I don't think that you can say that for Islam. I don't think that you can say it for Judaism. Both of them are

Christ, the Christian Christ is absent in both. So we know that that Satan is behind that.

He's the father of all lies and trying to deceive the nations and the Jewish people, anybody who's not inside Christ.

So I think any anybody who doesn't have Christ is outside of Christ. And it's all evil.

I don't know that we can lump one more evil than the other. That would be my position.

OK, well, let's let me I would. OK, well, I was just going to say there is definitely a pendulum swing.

You know, the the the stereotypical dispensationalist is kind of seen as the the the

Jewish nation lover. You know, just everything they do is just wonderful. And they're you know, they're nothing stinks.

And then you got the the extreme swing on the other side. I think

Candace Owens is actually doing a really good job fomenting a lot of anti -Israel.

But but but to a certain degree, a lot of her observations are not inaccurate. Like they're obviously sinners. They're doing things, you know, that they shouldn't do.

And people who are not just national Jews, but religious Jews are rejecting, you know, Christ and the father.

And so, yes, I mean, there are huge problems there as a fundamentalist dispensationalist fundamentalist.

Nothing to do with that as a dispensationalist. You know, I do believe that the ethnic Jews are going to have a unique place in in eternity.

I do believe that. At the same time, I can't just put a stamp of approval on everything that the

Jewish nation does. I think that they should exist. I look forward to see what God is going to do in their nation.

But I think people go way too far on one extreme. And I think the reaction to that, that ridiculous extreme of just everything they do is perfect.

Let's support them and everything. Let's never bad mouth them is people just wanting to say, but yeah, there's some really terrible, awful things going on over there.

And we need to find what is a Christ honoring a truthful way of responding to this on both sides. The gospel about the gospel, which is what this means, because she just she went to Catholicism.

So let me let me just get some of these things quickly here that we do have. And I'm going to try it. OK, so this was from earlier.

Biblical Baptist says when we're talking about Trump. Yeah, he was on fire until he chose Paul White. Yeah, he just set up a department of faith or something.

And he chose Paul White, which, yeah, yeah, yeah. Slap on the head is the right thing.

Kathy said question, would you bring church discipline upon a church member that you found has gone to a grandson or child's gay marriage?

I don't know that I would. Because I don't I don't know that I could say it's a sin.

Per se, I'd struggle with that one when it's a child, you know. So, yeah, yeah.

I mean, who are you? Do they really have a say in it? If mom and dad say you got to go to this wedding, how are you going to do it?

So there's one issue, really. It's also to not going. It's are they going? I mean, I guess what you're telling them, if they fully support it and they think it's completely

OK and they will repent of that view, then yeah. You know what? Would I go?

Let's you know, let's make it personal. Would you? You know, I have an unbelieving son that that is participating in.

Would I go celebrate his sin with him? No, I would not. Would would that be a celebration of sin?

I I think in in a way it well, yeah, it would be a celebration of sin. So I think that I would have to take a stand and say, you know what?

I want to please Christ more than than my son in that. Not not telling him

I don't love him, by the way, my sons aren't homosexual, but but just you see what

I'm going with the story. The whole point is, is that, you know, we're we still have family members that we're close to and we love them, but we can't celebrate their sin with them.

We cannot. We have to be opposed to it and tell people the truth and love. Yeah. But I don't know.

It's a church discipline issue. I don't I don't think so. By the way, guys, I was wrong. I was wrong.

Destroyer of noobs. He said ultra mega. Yeah, no, I got that.

We're going to get to it. So I was messed up. Newton, the story of noobs said, I'm an atheist.

I have checkmated your Protestant religion with Christianity. The only thing you destroyed was your own self because you haven't checkmated us at all.

But I'll give the challenge. Destroyer of noobs. You heard you've you have ultra mega checkmate.

Well, here's the challenge there, sir or ma 'am. I don't know which next week.

We don't have anything scheduled. We'll probably do more open Q &A. So destroyer of noobs.

Here is your chance to alter checkmate us. I dare you.

In fact, I double dog dare you to come in next week and make your case to me that you think proves

Christianity wrong by using the church or using Protestant Christianity. I'll be happy to see if you can checkmate me.

And can I can I say something in the meantime? Well, while you're waiting for next week and that opportunity to do that,

I would want to challenge you with a couple of things. Why would you hate a God that sends his only son to die on the cross to pay the penalty for your sin?

Why would you hate a God that is dispensing grace on a people that can that would send him in perfect obedience to what

God requires to have a relationship with him, willing to lay down his life on the cross to die and take the penalty, the full wrath of God for you?

And if you think that God is going to spare you when he didn't spare his son, you're surely mistaken, son.

Well, I'm curious if he claims God doesn't exist, why would he hate a God he thinks doesn't exist? Yeah.

Why would he argue that he knows where God's authority lies, whether the church or like if God doesn't exist?

Like, what are you exactly arguing? Why is it so important to argue that solo scripture is not a thing because God's authority lies in the church?

If you don't even believe that God. Wow. God doesn't exist. And I hate him.

Yeah. Yeah. And he's checkmated us. Oops. Yeah. He likes the word checkmate in all caps.

You know, it's it's fun. I wonder if he plays chess. I need to start using that. I just need to start throwing it out there. Just. Yeah.

So this is this kind of goes back to what we're saying, right? You got to know that your audience, you got to know that the reality is that I'd love for him to come in.

Defer of noobs. We'd love to see you next week. Please don't be just a keyboard warrior, because there's something different when you can type something online.

And like we had with the preterists, full preterists that never showed up the other week. Right. It's one thing to be able to go online and just type anything and then ignore what's said.

It's a lot harder when you have someone in front of you and they're asking you a question and you can't just ignore it because they keep asking you the same question.

They demand an answer. So, you know, if you say, as he says here, because Protestantism is not

Christianity and that's why it's so easy to refute. Well, we'll see you next week and see if you could refute

Christianity. We're here. I want to see if you will be. Well, I'm going to say man enough if he's a man.

But my double dog dare is, will you show up next week and we could take all your challenges?

Folks, you want to take a guess what I think? Is going to happen next week. It'll be Tom and I.

But we'll see. Maybe, you know, the destroyer of noobs will show up to destroy us noobs.

Tom. Yeah, that's I can't wait for it. Hey, Saturday night.

Be tuning into the same channels. You're going to be watching open air theology on the same channel. And so be checking that out.

We did add a new podcast to the Christian podcast community. It is

Bold Apologia. If you've been following this podcast, you have seen the

Adam Parker, who is from that podcast. He has been on here before. And so please check out

Bold Apologia on the Christian podcast community. One of our newest things and very, very important.

I want to ask if you would all consider doing us a big favor.

There is a a bracket of the best reform podcast bracket that Dead Man Walking podcast does every year.

And here is he has upped it up to he's doubled the number of podcasts in here.

Now you can see it's a very big list. And many of the Christian podcast community podcasts are in here.

And so we would greatly appreciate if you would go out every day to the Dead Man Walking podcast stream.

You just go to on X, it's X dot com slash real D M W.

That stands for Dead Man Walking podcast. So just go to X dot com slash real

D M W podcast. Go there starting in two days from today.

I think it is. It's on the 10th, February 10th. He starts to have a different group every day.

And the list of podcasts from the Christian podcast community that are in there, by the way, Open Air Theology, who's not in the

Christian podcast community yet because they don't have an official podcast yet. But we're working on that.

So they will be there. But but Open Air Theology vote for them.

Vote Apologetics Live Matter of Theology. The Caleb Gordon podcast, which is soon going to be part of our community.

They're coming. Justin Peters, my podcast, Rap Report, Squirrel Chatter, Religionless Christianity, Reformed Rookie, Metzlic Live, Theology Throwdown, Truthspresso, Doctrines Matter, Truth Be Known, Thoroughly Equipped with Melissa Lux, Truth Love Parent.

Oh, that's yours, Aaron. I'm on there. You're in there. I got you in there. Street Talk Theology is in there.

So I'm not going to win, but vote for me. No, I'm voting for you. We're voting the underdog here, folks.

Let's get all the small podcasts to get in the final four. But if you could go each day, there's going to be a different one.

So please go out there. Help us out. If you look at the thing, the winner gets a nice custom rebound

ESV creeds and confessions Bible of $500 value. Squirrely Joe's Coffee.

That's the thing that I'm really looking forward to winning. It will make you awake. The Eschatology book.

But the interesting thing is I'm not creative enough to win these other things.

The most reformed content post will win a legacy cigar pack.

And the most creative content will win a podcast or a month of professional editing from Vindicated Ministries.

So, yeah, I don't know that I'm creative enough to promote the... Because I've seen some of these guys, and they're really kind of creative.

So please go out and help us be going out there. It's starting on the 10th.

Go out every day. Check it out each day. Look at the different podcasts.

Vote for the list I gave you. Please go check out christianpodcastcommunity .org to see all of our podcasts.

Because that's not even all of our podcasts. Those are just the ones that were defined as reformed. So we have way more.

So until next week, remember to strive to make today an eternal day for the glory of God. And we'll see you next week.