Did Trump Change his Position on Abortion?

Welcome to the conversations that matter podcast. I'm your host John Harris This is gonna be a short one because it has to be

I'm actually Leaving pretty soon within about an hour to go to Mississippi for the weekend

My grandfather as many of you know Was from Mississippi originally spent the first part of his life there and then moved out,

California after World War two in the 1950s And that's where he raised his family, but You know growing up I went to Mississippi Frequently not maybe not quite every year, but many years

I have fond memories of fishing with him down there and just all kinds of things going back to I Mean, it wasn't even the family farm

There were it's like every family had a farm and seemed that way at least to me Except my one aunt who had a lake house and we enjoyed jet skiing and that kind of thing there

But I'm not I'm not doing any of the fun stuff. Well, we'll see probably not I'm there for a memorial service.

I already went to one in, California My grandpa passed away January 1st, but this has been put off until a family reunion

Which is this weekend? And so so anyway, that's what where I got to go today And so it's kind of bittersweet mixed feelings.

It'll be the first time I spend any real time in Mississippi without my grandfather present Which is just weird.

I just associate him with that and some of you can relate and understand this but I'm not even sure what to expect.

I think it's just gonna be an interesting weekend so you could pray for me and pray for my family because I know my father is

Doing the service and he's a pastor and he's gonna share the gospel. I'm sure and There will you know likely be people there who don't know

Christ personally and haven't been born again And so so anyway, appreciate your prayers travel mercies all of that and so forth

Anyway, though I do switching gears here now mentally I'm in Mississippi We need to talk a little bit about this abortion ban thing and you know

I've had a number of things. I've wanted to talk about in the stack of stuff or a news roundup it'll probably have to wait till next week because I've just had so many projects this week that have been really important that I needed to to work on kind of behind the scenes but But anyway,

I you know, this is one. I just didn't think could wait I wanted to do this now because It's a controversy online right now and I see you know, a lot of emotions are high a lot of opinions are flying around and I just want to kind of if we can in a calm hopefully reasonable way just walk through what

Donald Trump actually said and what this actually changes if anything if anything, so Before we do all that though.

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And see if this is something that would benefit your family All right. Well, let's uh get started just From the beginning with the topic at hand, which is trump's statement

We're going to start with the initial statement which came out a few days ago And then there's a second statement that he made just kind of on the cuff

So the first one I think is scripted the second one not so much my leadership The republican party will always support the creation of strong thriving and healthy american families

We want to make it easier for mothers and families to have babies not harder that includes supporting the availability of fertility treatments like ivf in every state in america

Like the overwhelming majority of americans including the vast majority of republicans conservatives christians and pro -life americans

I strongly support the availability of ivf for couples who are trying to have a precious baby

What could be more beautiful or better than that? Today i'm pleased that the alabama legislature has acted very quickly

And passed legislation that preserves the availability of ivf in alabama.

They really did a great and fast job The republican party should always be on the side of the miracle of life and the side of mother's father

They're beautiful babies and that's what we are Ivf is an important part of that and our great republican party will always be with you

In your quest for the ultimate joy in life Many people have asked me what my position is on abortion and abortion rights especially since I was proudly the person responsible for the ending of something that All legal scholars both sides wanted and in fact demanded

Be ended Row v wait they wanted it ended it must be remembered that the democrats are the radical ones on this position because They support abortion up to and even beyond the ninth month the concept of having an abortion in the later months and even

Execution after birth and that's exactly what it is. The baby is born. The baby is executed after birth

Is unacceptable and almost everyone agrees with that My view is now that we have abortion where everybody wanted it from a legal standpoint

The states will determine by vote or legislation or perhaps both And whatever they decide must be the law of the land in this case the law of the state many states will be different many will have a different number of weeks or some will have

More conservative than others and that's what they will be At the end of the day, this is all about the will of the people

You must follow your heart or in many cases your religion or your faith

Do what's right for your family and do what's right for yourself Do what's right for your children do what's right for our country and vote so important to vote

At the end of the day, it's all about will of the people That's where we are right now and that's what we want the will of the people

I want to thank the six justices chief justice john roberts clarence thomas

Samuel alito Brett kavanaugh amy coney barrett And neil gorsuch incredible people

For having the courage to allow this long -term hard -fought battle to finally end this 50 -year battle over roe v wade

Took it out of the federal hands and brought it into the hearts minds and vote Of the people in each state was really something now.

It's up to the states to do the right thing Like ronald reagan. I am strongly in favor of exceptions for rape

Incest and life of the mother you must follow your heart of this issue But remember you must also win elections to restore our culture and in fact to save our country

Which is currently and very sadly a nation in decline Our nation needs help it needs unity.

It needs us all to work closely together Democrat republican liberal conservative everyone.

We have to work together We have to bring our nation back from the brink and that's where it is

It's at the brink and we will we will do it. I promise you we will do it always go by your heart

But we must win we have to win We are a failing nation, but we can be a failing nation no longer

We will make our nation great. We will make our nation greater than ever before.

Thank you very much Now obviously people who have listened to this podcast for uh any length of time know that uh,

I Not not exactly positive on all of that in fact the whole

There There's the arrogance at the end that we are going to do this. We're going to win we're and that's the and I agree that's a top priority,

I mean if if there isn't some pushback against the current regime then

Uh, what's the point of anything? What's the point of any of the issues that conservative, uh, and christian people care about?

but trump Is has this arrogance there isn't um a

I guess that's what bothers me and I know that's not the first thing that bothered everyone else But it bothers me that there isn't this

Acknowledgement of god. There's an acknowledgement of you know, people want this people want that they want babies this

And and we're doing we did the best thing our policies were good And I favor these exceptions like ronald reagan did for rape and incest and life of the mother

And it should go back to the states. All that's great. That's the way it should be. That's the moral vision uh, but if you

At the end there if you disagree with this if you're troubled by it The priority is we have to win we have to take our country back from the brink

Uh, and whether you're troubled in in either direction, you know, you don't think he goes far enough You think trump goes too far on abortion?

then it just becomes about winning and um, and so I I you know,

I i'm, uh, i'm a mixed feelings on it because uh When I I want to win right we want to and winning means really crushing or at least creating a shield against Uh the regime that's aligned with every other cultural institution with authority

And that's what trump represents to me. So I agree but you know You would obviously hope that there would be it wouldn't be about us doing this through our own grit

Yeah, we got to work hard but the lord needs to be in this and I think if the lord is in this Then you might look at the abortion issue a little bit differently

If this is truly a human if this is truly murder, then it's not going to be As much about the will of the people the will of the people matters for political calculation

But when it comes to moral vision, it doesn't when it comes to moral vision then It the the message has to be

What does the lord? require what what is He want us to do and that's what we should do, right?

It's really that simple and I know for believers This is really second nature or it should be at least

And so I understand the people who have a real problem with this. Uh, this was the uh, second video

President did arizona go too far? What do you think about florida?

Florida is probably maybe going to change also. See it's all about the will of the people

This is what i've been saying. It's a perfect system So for 52 years people have wanted to end roe v wade to get it back to the states

We did that it was an incredible thing an incredible achievement We did that and now the states have it and the states are putting out what they want.

It's the will of the people So florida is probably going to change Arizona is going to definitely change everybody wants that to happen

And you're getting the will of the people. It's been uh, pretty amazing when you think sorry, if that's hard to hear because uh, there's a lot of There's a plane running in the background and stuff

But trump's argument is the will of the people is what matters and he thinks arizona But then he says he thinks arizona was off track and i'll share that with you.

So um It's that is his fundamental principle It seems like that he tries to get back to and and this is something conservatives do actually quite a bit.

So if you remember Ted cruz did this in 2016 2017

I want to say I think it's 2016 when he was running for office for the presidency He was on a late night show.

I think it was jay leno's show And he was asked about homosexual marriage because he had been against it, right?

And so his answer was federalism. His answer was let each state decide we can't we get behind that?

I think he said the same thing on bill maher This is something conservatives in leadership positions tend to do when they have a position that is now unpopular or becoming unpopular

They appeal to federalism because federalism allows variation it allows some states to engage in certain practices that other states

Do not engage in and vice versa. And so when it comes to same -sex marriage Well, california can do what california wants to do but don't force that on alabama, right?

It seemed reasonable in 2016 for or 2015 for ted cruz to say this uh, but at now that we're in 2024, of course, this is

Uh so enshrined if you even deviate a little bit and think that maybe alabama shouldn't have same -sex marriage

And you know, you're a bigot. You're you're a horrible person like that's The landscape has changed so quickly on that issue

And now they're pushing uh, not just transgender stuff, but transgender kids, uh operations and sports and So you can see how the overton window is pushed hard by the left fast and they used every cultural institution they have control over which is like all of them that have influence pretty much and and and the last one to really fall is the church and they're getting into the

Evangelical church and they're and they're getting in there and that's why this podcast exists because we push back on that stuff.

So um I'll have to say ted cruz appealed to that I remembered that and this was a common argument and it's an argument now trump is making on abortion.

He He he has it in his mind and he may be right about this that Overturning roe v wade the dobbs decision was somewhat unpopular and it led to a less than stellar performance for republicans in the midterms and so He's looking at the presidential election and he's thinking how do

I remain competitive in these swing states? and he falls back on honestly what he has

Really always said I remember a little story time here. I remember years ago. I uh had a dinner and steve king was there

I was I was at a dinner and steve king was there. Uh, who was a former congressman from the state of iowa and he told the story himself of uh

Because he's very pro -life of interacting with donald trump on this issue and this has always been donald trump Uh, he's always for these exceptions.

In fact in the story steve king told That there was a woman that he had brought to trump's office who had a child

And uh, the the child was the product of rape and And and you know, this was something, you know, steve king was trying to impress upon trump.

Look, uh, These exceptions aren't even they're not good. This is not consistent and This mother has a has a beautiful child.

She has a child who would not be there if abortion if she chose to have an abortion And you know trump was just kind of like I think what steve king said is trump trump looked at him and said where do you find these people in other words these people from for you know

Steve king's from the midwest. It is his answer is basically they're all over the midwest But these people that are more traditional that that think that you shouldn't even have these exceptions trump is from new york

I mean in 2016 One of the reasons that I had a really hard time with him and I didn't even vote for him in the general and I Was in new york, so I didn't think my vote mattered much in the grand scheme there.

Anyway, uh, but you know That was one of the issues was I was like he's you remember Cruz had that new york values ad against trump that trump is and pro abortion

Basically, that was the ad well trump turned out to be much more pro -life in the way.

He governed than the way he talked and And his talk and the things he says can be a little bit

In the moment all over the place I mean he said in 2016 too like the the mother should be punished right if she

Wants an abortion if she she has an abortion done And of course this was like what this was like the pro -life community was freaking out, you know trump

He says things on the spot and I think this what he's doing now Is a mixture of him saying things because he's trying to hedge because he knows this is somewhat unpopular

And it's and he wants to remain competitive in swing states and it's also Uh him falling back to what he knows best, which is the federalism argument that hey

States can do what they want and this isn't really a new argument for him This is how he's pretty much always been and he likes to fall back on.

Hey what the people want? All right, that's trump. That's the populist kind of side of him too like Uh wanting to just defer to what do the people want?

And so that that's who he is take it or leave it obviously as christians we believe Life is precious life should be protected

From the moment of conception. There's a human being there and so we would disagree With trump's view the main question though is what are his policies going to do effectively?

and What we've seen so far is that donald trump as a president has done more since the passing of roe v wade than any other president to Hamper that to put an end to it

I mean in texas Someone showed me a graph the other day and I don't know if the net amount of abortions have gone down I'm, assuming they have slightly um,

I know I did a podcast like a year ago where I was suggesting based on other information that Abortions haven't really gone that much down but in the red states where they have restrictions

They sure have people have to go to other states to perform late -term abortions and these kinds of things and so Donald trump has brought that about through his supreme court nominations and and and i'll go through a few other things here soon

That he's also done that have been helpful along this regard of restricting abortions Through federal policy and there's no reason to believe any of that's going to change

None, he hasn't actually given any firm policies. It's just rhetoric It's just here's my position and his position really isn't any

I I can't see any difference between what he's saying now and what he said throughout his presidency and his campaign uh in 2016 so I people are some christians, especially are really

Upset about this and saying they're not going to vote for donald trump and I don't really know what changed I don't know what they must have had a view of him.

That was different because this is To me, I looked at it. I didn't know why this was news. This has always been trump in my mind at least

Now a few things policy related because he did I said that he he hasn't rolled out any policies But he did at least say what he favors on a state level or he insinuated what he favors on a state level policy so uh, the first thing is this

IVF, uh I guess

Law, I think it's a law. Yeah, so it was in reaction to the supreme court ruling and to really summarize this because I don't have a lot of time, but the supreme court ruling essentially treated

These frozen embryos these children these humans as humans And when they were uh destroyed by an

IVF clinic without authorization, uh, this was uh This was

It opened the door for them to be sued and these kinds of things and so IVF Clinic said we can't operate if that's the case because that's pretty standard procedure

Now you don't have to if you're doing IVF treatment, you do not have to destroy frozen embryos That's an option

But it's standard procedure for them to do this and only pick the most viable ones in their minds to implant so the new law um provides

Criminal and criminal immunity in connection with in vitro services and death or damage of an embryo It states that no action suit or criminal prosecution for the death to or damage of an embryo shall be brought or maintained against any individual or entity when providing or Receiving services related to in vitro fertilization.

So from my perspective Just from reading that This isn't good. Um Because this law does not address whether embryos created through IVF are considered children under state law

Uh, it also doesn't protect, you know It doesn't give immunity if you're working with frozen embryos outside of IVF procedures

It really all it is is like you can keep doing IVF including destroying these frozen embryos.

That's at least my read on it And that's bad um, donald trump portrays it and maybe his understanding of it is is it just It's And I think there's a lot of people's understanding.

Oh, this is just uh allowing IVF to continue and isn't IVF great it's like in the argument I tried to weave a few months ago is

If you want to have IVF It should be regulated at the very least there should be laws to protect

Uh children if that's if you're creating children here from being destroyed

And I realize there's all kinds of questions and there are all kinds of complexities this but it is navigable It is able to be navigated um,

I think this is a possibility and so Uh, they didn't want to dip their toe in that though.

They just wanted to give immunity And that's an easy road in my mind. So, um another thing I should say.

Oh, sorry before I get to this Uh, arizona because that was the other thing he kind of tipped his hat to arizona saying arizona

Uh people who are against this law, you know, they're in the right and the democrats were the ones against this The republicans were for it.

Kerry lake, unfortunately was Against it, but there was a law and it's uh

It's a civil war era law. This is what you hear all the time. It's it's so Well, i'll play you a video in a moment that shows you exactly what how this is being portrayed

But this is the law just so everyone knows Every person who shall administer or cause to be administered or taken any medical medicinal rather substances

Or shall use or cause to be used at any instruments Whatever with the intention to procure the miscarriage of any woman

Then being with child and shall be thereof Duly convicted shall be punished by imprisonment in the territorial prison for a term not less than two years nor more than five months

Provided that no physician shall be affected by the last clause of this section who in the discharge of his professional duties

Deems it necessary to produce the miscarriage of any woman in order to save her life So there you have

I suppose you could say somewhat of an exception there. Well, that's the law 1864 law and of course the way this law is being portrayed pretty much universally

Uh is like this this new abortion ban, yeah, it's actually not new at all

It's 160 years old The civil war era law makes it illegal to procure a miscarriage and says that anyone who performs an abortion

Or helps somebody get one could face two to five years in prison And when we say this law is old we mean old to put it in perspective

Arizona wasn't even a state yet when the law was first passed in 1864 The civil war was still going on and slavery was still legal women couldn't vote child labor was still allowed cars weren't invented yet So even if you could get an abortion, you might have had to take a horse and carriage to the appointment

Electricity at home that wouldn't be widely used for another few decades in short It was an entirely different time when this law was enacted

But now the arizona supreme court has made it a very present reality for the state's residents It effectively bans abortion in the entire state from the moment of conception

Before the recent ruling abortion was legal in arizona until the 15 -week mark The only exception to the law is if an abortion is necessary to save the pregnant person's life

The law could take effect in as little as two weeks okay, so that was from now this which is very liberal leftist

I would say leftist, uh publication and But this is universal every article I read on this everything

I saw online about this was it's so old It's a civil war era law And this is a great argument to just ditch the constitution

This is a great argument for christians to say though. I guess the bible doesn't matter I mean, it's even much older think of all the things happening during but you know the the

Uh, you want to talk about slavery? Let's go back to roman slavery. I mean that was really uh more egregious in so many ways than than the american, uh system and You know, you could point out all kinds of things

I mean, they didn't know that uh, you're washing your hands killed germs and you know It was so terrible and you want to go back to moral law that was given at that time uh written down in these uh, these canonical books,

I mean That's the problem is there's this assumption that People were morally inferior and and this seems to be universal.

It seems to be something that People think that we didn't know what a human was and it's so archaic.

No one knew Uh, because look at all these these labor and of course, what do they appeal to technology labor relationships?

and social arrangements Technology labor relationships and social arrangements which have changed uh, you know, especially with the industrial revolution and the rise of the

Merchant class and managerial elitism and modernity of course These things have been in flux for now a few centuries and they've been changing and that that's why those things have been changing

There's new arrangements based on economic factors mostly and technology technology factors and And so you would expect some of those things to change

Given the conditions but that doesn't change objective morality, right? So that's kind of the distinction here that I would make when you compare the you know

The light bulb to whether we whether a human is a human whether a baby's a human

Like we're talking about apples and oranges in many ways here and and that's what they're trying to trick us with It's like hey, you've seen medical advances, haven't you?

Well, that must mean that we just know more and there's nothing We know more now medically speaking

Concerning whether the baby is a human than they knew in 1864. So this is just um the bias of thinking that things that are new and innovative are better and And it's a bias against the past and and we should push back against that.

That's wrong Just because it's from 1864 doesn't mean it's archaic or or you know wrong There's certain things that can be archaic that are suited to different cultures because of technology or labor relationships or social arrangements

But that's not what we're talking about in this case. We're talking about what's a human so that being said, um

Donald trump seemed to he indicated that he thought that was a mistake He didn't really say why but i'm assuming if he's consistent if there's any consistency there it would be because he's for additional exceptions not just the exception of the life of the mother but also rape and incest so That's what donald trump said and of course

It's an election year and he wants to remain competitive and I really think that's all there is to this now

He made one other statement that I wanted to show you on lindsey graham He said senator lindsey graham is doing a great disservice to the gop

At first he wanted to know abortions under any circumstances Then he was up to six weeks When you're allowed abortion now, he's up to 15 weeks when you're allowed abortion

But what he doesn't understand or perhaps he does is the radical left democrats who are destroying our country will never approve anything that he

Or the republicans want I mean he's right about that his instincts on the democrats are right They love this issue and they want to keep it going for as long as republicans will allow them to do that So terminating roe v wade was according to all legal scholars a great event

But sometimes with great events come difficulties many good republicans lost elections because of this issue and people like lindsey

Graham that are unrelenting are handing democrats their dreams of the house senate and perhaps even the presidency so this just indicates it proves everything i'm saying that there's the trump is uh

His rhetoric is shifting. He's he's emphasizing more that he's not going to On the federal level do it like an abortion ban like he could anyway because of this political strategy

I don't see anything policy -wise changing with trump But he is shifting his rhetoric and he thinks and really what is senator lindsey graham doing his rhetoric is out of step with trump's

Uh pro -lifers had absolutely zero status. He says on the subject of abortion until I came along now, that's just arrogant Uh for 52 years everyone talked but got nothing.

I got it done Now there is some truth to this in the sense that why why was it trump? I mean and this may be the good the best argument for pro -lifers and anti -abortion advocates is

Electing donald trump. He is someone who will push hard for what he says He's going to do and you had a lot of pro -lifers just talking

About what they were going to do and they didn't push hard and trump did push hard and guess what happened

What what people said would never happen happened trump's right about that in a sense now to say they had absolutely zero status that's not right, but like he is right that He he gave a seat at the table for anti -abortion people and that seat still is there it's still at the table

All right There would be no one who would talk about the six -week ban or anything else without me Uh roe v wade allowed the killing of baby at any time

Uh, including fifth sixth seventh eighth ninth month and even after birth they are the radicals not us so so he's reframing the pro -life movement as We believe in I that you know, like ronald reagan.

I believe in these exceptions rape incest life of the mother But uh The six -week ban on abortions among other things.

Um, let's see. He's going after lindsey graham. I think in the same post here uh, it'll be hard to win elections with these, uh,

Six -week bans on abortion among other things. Uh, so I think that's i'm reading this correct.

So, um So so he's trying to take this sort of middle road and he's always kind of been here he's been squishy

Squishy ish on abortion, but the advantage again to donald trump is He needs pro -life people.

Otherwise, he can't win Uh, he does have an instinct that is at least against infanticide and he's against the democrats will never accept him because He is against late -term abortion bans

And he is for federalism in that he opened this up on the state level to be decided among the states

There's no room that the abolitionist quote -unquote or anti -abortion advocates would have on the state level if donald trump had

Hadn't about point the supreme court justices He had they would not have latitude to really do much because the people in their states that even the pro -lifers who are not

As anti -abortion as we would hope would keep saying well the federal law the whether the supreme court ruling rather says that abortion

Is legal and now they don't have that so you can't work on the state level and that's where the battle is going to be

Fought so it's a federalist kind of approach to this now I asked I asked online what people thought like how they thought abortion should be banned uh, whether it should be through, you know, 50 states 50 separate laws banning it whether it should be through executive order, uh, whether it should be through um

You know, I didn't really I didn't have enough space So I couldn't put supreme court ruling but supreme court ruling what you know

What is it that you think and people were all over the place? I'll just say personally I tend to favor um

I'm for like saving lives no matter what but if I had to choose I would favor all 50 states making it

Illegal, I mean that would be they're not going to do that though, right? But that would be ideal.

Um The thing is if you do impose an abortion ban Uh, and I don't think this is the legal capital just isn't there to do it at this point

But if that were possible if that happened then what you would have is you would have States like new york and massachusetts and california and washington and oregon

Uh, and maybe hawaii and some other really hard like pro abortion states they would be

They would defy it. I'm Certain of that they would totally defy it and then you could say well let them defy it and then we're going to have you know the this crisis and um

In the the situation we're in now I think the best The the greatest amount of babies are going to be saved through Working on the state level in the situation.

We're in you force it on the federal or the national general level You're going to have states

Defy it and there's going to be a crisis Which I don't know where that would go to be quite honest with you

That's what I think at least that would that be my prediction because they are so in the tank for this um, if you do it if you uh

Well, I guess that's the only option right? I mean you you'd have to come down hard and you'd have to go full lincoln

I guess you just have to invade the states that don't do what you say and of course the way that this would go if you were

Doing it without a constitutional amendment I think would probably be unconstitutional some people try to make fifth amendment arguments and these kinds of things but I think

We're reaching back into a time when they weren't thinking this was much This wasn't like a possibility in the minds of the founders

That this would be a thing that abortion would be this industry um, so it

I I tend to think that um, actually i'm against the incorporation doctrine and I think that um

You would have to amend the constitution To if you wanted to keep the constitution and try to do this from a legal standpoint

So so the two arguments I see that are the best arguments for the pro -life approaches, right? These are just this is somewhat hypothetical

But I but but there's there's two one is Constitution is kind of a dead document.

The left doesn't follow it. We're past that they think it's archaic and all this let's just enter a new paradigm

And and and this is where the people with the protestant franco mindset come in And then there's the more let's kind of try to keep the best of this federalist tradition and band together in in a loose alliance as much as possible against foreign powers and threats, but Let us, uh have shades of difference between us and and sometimes those differences can be more than shades where one state

Is against abortion one state is for it and those kinds of things now I don't want to be in a union frankly in some with states

Like if I was in a red state that banned abortion I don't know if i'd want to be in a union with states that think murder is okay, right?

Or like infanticide. That's what I remember the governor of virginia was all for that Uh, you know, that's just that that's horrific

And and so I don't see either of these options as actually long -term solutions to this

In a way, uh, because you're going that that conflict is going to be so severe that it's going to lead to well

What's the movie that came out two days ago civil war, right? Like you can't have these two.

These are two different civilizations at this point and they can't really coexist so I tend to favor though the

Because I think it's more in keeping with the best of our constitutional tradition And I think it gives us more time

And I think it'll save more babies in the here and now is the federalist approach to this And it also gives us latitude to work on the state level

That's that's where where i'm at. Um, and you know, and i'm a localist I'm, I think that's actually a more conservative way of looking at things um

Those are your options though. That's that's what I see broadly speaking and you got to think long -term about these things

What's realistic what's possible? and What will cause a true constitutional crisis slash civil war slash, you know, uh more disregard for the rule of law

And you know make us weaker and you know, what's the what's the best process by which? You can save the most babies possible while also maintaining some kind of an

A military alliance with these other states so that you can defend yourself from foreign enemies That's kind of like the conundrum that we're in in my humble opinion

Okay uh One last thing I wanted to share with you and I said

I would get to this Uh, some of the other things the trump administration did for the pro -life movement. There's a really great article.

William wolf wrote uh for center for baptistleadership .org And he reminds us of some things he talks about the center for baptist leadership, you know, very uh pleased with the dobbs decision

And pleased with the way trump governed that he promised to make these appointments and he did but also

He appointed strong pro -life personnel to key executive branch positions such as roger Severino at hhs and russell voight

At omb he prevented taxpayer funding for abortion overseas by reinstating the mexico city policy and establishing the expanded protection of life and global health assistance program

He stopped tens of millions of tax dollars from going to Planned Parenthood He supported states like texas with which redirected medicaid funds to health providers who refused to offer abortion services

And he was the first president to speak at the march for life. Now. These these are quite accomplishments guys uh now at the same time um they

Basically say that trump look this is the this is the good thing about trump. This is how trump governed

This is he'll have these people still with him But we're going to continue to advocate for the legal protection of life from the moment of fertilization until natural death

That doesn't change our stance on this just because trump isn't where we are doesn't change where? Our ultimate goal here and I think that's exactly the right position

I think in closing. I just want to say that I'm, not for pragmatism because I see a lot of people throwing that around pragmatism meaning that hey, whatever works whatever uh

Saves the lives I guess of the most people in the current situation That's pragmatism. Somehow we should be against that.

I I think of pragmatism more as you determine your morality What what morality changes based on the situation kind of like a situation ethics thing?

That's that's obviously wrong um The law of god doesn't change right babies are humans.

They should be protected We shouldn't be killing them. That would be murder and the law should recognize that um but being practical in the situation that we're in where you have a large number of people sharing a government who do not believe that and are

Fighting as hard as they can to keep that enshrined And you have to in order to win elections

You have to appeal maybe maybe the arguments against the system to be honest with you in some ways But but you have to have a broad appeal that allows some people who believe that to vote for you

And that's how trump is thinking about and that may be true um You can participate in a vote for trump without Being practical recognizing the situation for what it is being realistic about it while not changing your view of morality while not changing uh

What morality actually is in your mind or what the right thing is at a given time? The right thing hasn't changed.

The right thing is to protect the unborn, right? But the mechanism we use to attempt to do that may change based on the situation and the political strategy may change

Because of the the jam that we're in and that's something to pray about. So that's my two cents on it