Did Trump Change his Position on Abortion?

Welcome to the conversations that matter podcast. I'm your host John Harris. This is gonna be a short one because it has to be I'm actually Leaving pretty soon within about an hour to go to Mississippi for the weekend.

My grandfather as many of you know Was from Mississippi originally spent the first part of his life there and then moved out, California after World War two in the 1950s. And that's where he raised his family, but You know growing up.

I went to Mississippi Frequently not maybe not quite every year, but many years I have fond memories of fishing with him down there and just all kinds of things going back to I Mean it wasn't even the family farm there were.

It's like every family had a farm and seemed that way at least to me. Except my one aunt who had a lake house and we enjoyed jet skiing and that kind of thing there. But I'm not I'm not doing any of the fun stuff.

Well, we'll see probably not I'm there for a memorial service. I already went to one in California. My grandpa passed away January 1st, but this has been put off until a family reunion. Which is this weekend?

And so so anyway, that's what where I got to go today. And so it's kind of bittersweet mixed feelings. It'll be the first time I spend any real time in Mississippi without my grandfather present. Which is just weird.

I just associate him with that and some of you can relate and understand this but I'm not even sure what to expect. I think it's just gonna be an interesting weekend so you could pray for me and pray for my family because I know my father is Doing the service and he's a pastor and he's gonna share the gospel.

I'm sure and There will you know likely be people there who don't know Christ personally and haven't been born again. And so so anyway, appreciate your prayers travel mercies all of that.

And.

So forth. Anyway, though I do switching gears here now mentally. I'm in Mississippi.

I.

We need to talk a little bit about this abortion ban thing and you know, I've had a number of things I've wanted to talk about in the stack of stuff or a news roundup. It'll probably have to wait till next week because I've just had so many projects this week that have been really important that I needed to to work on kind of behind the scenes.

But.

But anyway, I you know, this is one. I just didn't think could wait. I wanted to do this now because It's a controversy online right now and I see you know a lot of emotions are high a lot of opinions are flying around and I just want to kind of if we can in a calm hopefully reasonable way just walk through what Donald Trump actually said and what this actually changes if anything if anything, so Before we do all that though. I need to let you know about Bradford Covenant Academy.

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Very thankful for Timothy Barrett sponsorship of the podcast with Covenant Academy. Check them out Covenant Academy online and See if this is something that would benefit your family. Alright, well, let's get started Just from the beginning with the topic at hand, which is Trump's statement We're gonna start with the initial statement which came out a few days ago.

And then there's a second statement that he made just kind of on the cuff. So the first one I think is scripted the second one not so much my leadership.

The Republican Party will always support the creation of strong thriving and healthy American families. We want to make it easier for mothers and families have babies not harder that includes supporting the availability of fertility treatments like IVF in every state in America like the overwhelming majority of Americans including the vast majority of Republicans conservatives Christians and pro-life Americans.

I strongly support the availability of IVF for couples who are trying to have a Precious baby what could be more beautiful or better than that today? I'm pleased that the Alabama Legislature has acted very quickly and passed legislation that preserves the availability of IVF in Alabama.

They really did a great and fast job. The Republican Party should always be on the side of the miracle of life and the side of mother's father. They're beautiful babies, and that's what we are. IVF is an important part of that and our great Republican Party will always be with you in your quest for the Ultimate joy in life.

Many people have asked me what my position is on abortion and abortion rights. Especially since I was proudly the person responsible for the ending of something that all legal scholars both sides Wanted and in fact demanded be ended.

Rho V. Wait, they wanted it ended. It must be remembered that the Democrats are the radical ones on this position because They support abortion up to and even beyond the ninth month the concept of having an abortion in the later months and even Execution after birth and that's exactly what it is.

The baby is born. The baby is executed after birth is Unacceptable and almost everyone agrees with that. My view is now that we have abortion where everybody wanted it from a legal standpoint the states will determine by vote or legislation or perhaps both and Whatever they decide must be the law of the land in this case the law of the state.

Many states will be different many will have a different number of weeks or some will have more Conservative than others and that's what they will be at the end of the day. This is all about the will of the people.

You must follow your heart or in many cases Your religion or your faith do what's right for your family and do what's right for yourself. Do what's right for your children do what's right for our country and vote so important to vote at the end of the day.

It's all about will of the people. That's where we are right now. And that's what we want the will of the people. I want to thank the six justices Chief Justice John Roberts Clarence Thomas Samuel Alito Brett Kavanaugh Amy Coney Barrett and Neil Gorsuch incredible people for having the courage to allow this long-term hard-fought battle to finally end this 50-year battle over Roe v. Wade Took it out of the federal hands and brought it into the hearts minds and vote of the people in each state.

It was really something now. It's up to the states to do the right thing like Ronald Reagan. I am strongly in favor of exceptions for rape Incest and life of the mother you must follow your heart of this issue.

But remember you must also win elections to restore our culture and in fact to save our country. Which is currently and very sadly a nation in decline. Our nation needs help it needs unity it needs us all to work closely together Democrat Republican liberal conservative everyone we have to work together.

We have to bring our nation back from the brink and that's where it is. It's at the brink and we will we will do it. I promise you we will do it always go by your heart. But we must win we have to win we are a failing nation.

But we can be a failing nation no longer. We will make our nation great. We will make our nation greater than ever before. Thank you very much.

Trump’s Abortion Rhetoric, Federalism, and the Will of the People

Now obviously people who have listened to this podcast for any length of time know that I Not not exactly positive on all of that in fact the whole. There's the arrogance at the end that we are gonna do this we're gonna win we're.

And that's the and I agree. That's a top priority. I mean if if there isn't some pushback against the current regime then What's the point of anything? What's the point of any of the issues that conservative and Christian people care about?

But Trump is has this arrogance there isn't a A. I guess that's what bothers me and I know that's not the first thing that bothered everyone else. But it bothers me that there isn't this Acknowledgement of God there's a knowledge men of you know, people want this people want that they want babies this and and we're doing we did the best thing our policies were good and I favor these exceptions like Ronald Reagan did for rape and incest and life of the mother and It should go back to the States.

All that's great. That's the way it should be. That's the moral vision. But if you at the end there if you disagree with this if you're troubled by it. The priority is we have to win. We have to take our country back from the brink and whether you're troubled in in either direction.

You know, you don't think he goes far enough you think Trump goes too far on abortion then it just becomes about winning and and so I you know, I I'm I'm a mixed feelings on it because When I I want to win right we want to and winning means really crushing or at least creating a shield against The regime that's aligned with every other Cultural institution with authority and that's what Trump represents to me.

So I agree, but you know, you would obviously hope that there would be it wouldn't be about us doing this through our own grit. Yeah, we got to work hard. But the Lord needs to be in this and I think if the Lord is in this then you might look at the abortion issue a little bit differently if this is truly a human if this is truly murder and it's Not gonna be as much about the will of the people the will of the people matters for political calculation but when it comes to moral vision, it doesn't when it comes to moral vision then In the the message has to be what does the Lord?

Require what what is he want us to do and that's what we should do, right? It's really that simple and I know for believers. This is really second nature or it should be at least and so I understand the people who have a real problem with this this was the second video.

Robey way to get it back to the states. We did that. It was an incredible thing an incredible achievement. We did that and now the states have it and the states are putting out what they want. It's the will of the people so Florida's probably going to change.

Arizona's going to definitely change. Everybody wants that to happen.

Sorry if that's hard to hear because there's a lot of there's a plane running in the background and stuff but Trump's argument is the will of the people's what matters and he thinks Arizona but then he says he thinks Arizona was off-track and I'll share that with you.

So It's that is his fundamental principle. It seems like that he tries to get back to and and this is something conservatives do actually quite a bit. So If you remember Ted Cruz did this in 2016 2017 I want to say I think it's 2016 when he was running for office for the presidency.

He was on a late-night show. I think it was Jay Leno's show. And he was asked about homosexual marriage because he had been against it, right? And so his answer was federalism. His answer was let each state decide we can't we get behind that?

I think he said the same thing on Bill Maher. This is something conservatives in leadership positions tend to do when they have a position that is now unpopular or becoming unpopular. They appeal to federalism because federalism allows variation.

It allows some states to engage in certain practices that other states Do not engage in and vice versa. And so when it comes to same-sex marriage. Well, California can do it California wants to do but don't force that on Alabama, right?

It seemed reasonable in 2016 for or 2015 for Ted Cruz to say this. But now that we're in 2024, of course. This is so enshrined if you even deviate a little bit and think that maybe Alabama shouldn't have same-sex marriage and you know, you're a bigot you're you're a horrible person like that's.

The landscape has changed so quickly on that issue. And now they're pushing not just transgender stuff, but transgender kids operations and sports and. So you can see how the Overton window is pushed hard by the left fast and they used every cultural institution they have control over which is like all of them that have influence pretty much and and and then the last one to really follow is the church and they're getting into an evangelical church in there and they're getting in there and that's why this podcast exists because We push back on that stuff.

So All that to say Ted Cruz appealed to that I remembered that and this was a common argument and it's an argument now Trump is making on abortion he he has it in his mind and he may be right about this that overturning Roe v. Wade the Dobbs decision was somewhat unpopular and It led to a less than stellar performance for Republicans in the midterms and so he's looking at the presidential election and he's thinking how do I remain competitive in these swing states and He falls back on honestly what he has Really always said I remember a little story time here.

I remember years ago I had a dinner and Steve King was there I was I was at a dinner and Steve King was there who was a former congressman from the state of Iowa and He told the story himself of. Because he's very pro-life of interacting with Donald Trump on this issue and this has always been Donald Trump.

He's always for these exceptions. In fact in the story Steve King told that there was a woman that he had brought to Trump's office who had a child and the the child was the product of rape and.

And.

You know, this was something, you know, Steve King was trying to impress upon Trump. Look. These exceptions aren't even they're not good. This is not consistent and this mother has a beautiful child she has a child who would not be there if abortion if she chose to have an abortion and.

You know Trump was just kind of like I think what Steve King said is. Trump looked at him and said Where do you find these people? In other words these people from for you know Steve King's from the Midwest that is that his answer is basically they're all over the Midwest.

But these people that are more traditional that that think that you shouldn't even have these exceptions. Trump is from New York. I.

Mean.

In 2016 One of the reasons that I had a really hard time With him and I didn't even vote for him in the general and I was in New York. So I didn't think my vote mattered much in the grand scheme there anyway.

But you know, that was one of the issues was I was like he's you remember Cruz had that New York values ad against Trump. That Trump is and pro-abortion. Basically, that was the ad well Trump turned out to be much more pro-life in the way he governed than the way he talked and And his talk in the things he says can be a little bit In the moment are all over the place.

I mean he said in 2016 to like the the mother should be punished right if she Wants an abortion if she she has an abortion done. And of course this was like what this was like the pro-life community was freaking out you know Trump he says things on the spot and I think this what he's doing now is a mixture of him saying things because he's trying to hedge because he knows this is somewhat unpopular and It's and he wants to remain competitive in swing states, and it's also Him falling back to what he knows best, which is the federalism argument that hey States can do what they want and this isn't really a new argument for him.

This is how he's pretty much always been and he likes to fall back on. Hey what the people want. All right, that's Trump that's the populist kind of side of him to like Wanting to just defer to what do the people want?

And so that that's who he is. Take it or leave it. Obviously as Christians we believe Life is precious life should be protected From the moment of conception. There's a human being there and so we would disagree with Trump's view.

The main question though is what are his policies going to do effectively and What we've seen so far is that Donald Trump as a president has done more since the passing of Roe v. Wade than any other president.

Abortion Policy, IVF, and Arizona’s 1864 Law

To.

Hamper that to put an end to it I mean in Texas someone showed me a graph the other day and I don't know if the net amount of abortions have gone Down I'm assuming they have slightly. I know I did a podcast like a year ago where I was suggesting based on other information that Abortions haven't really gotten that much down but in the red states where they have restrictions they sure have people have to go to other states to perform late-term abortions and these kinds of things and so Donald Trump has brought that about through his Supreme Court Nominations and and I'll go through a few other things here soon that he's also done that have been helpful along this regard of restricting abortions.

Through pet federal policy and there's no reason to bleed any of that's going to change. None, he hasn't actually given any firm policies. It's just rhetoric. It's just here's my position and his position really isn't any and I I can't see any difference between what he's saying now and what he said throughout his presidency in his campaign in 2016, so People are some Christians especially are really Upset about this and saying they're not gonna vote for Donald Trump and I don't really know what changed.

I don't know what they must have had a view of him. That was different because this is to me I looked at it. I didn't know why this was news. There's always been Trump in my mind at least. Now a few things policy related because he did I said that he hasn't rolled out any policies.

But he did at least say what he favors on a state level or he insinuated what he favors on a state level policy-wise. So the first thing is this IVF.

I.

Guess law I think it's a law. Yeah, so it was in reaction to the Supreme Court ruling. And to really summarize this because I don't have a lot of time but the Supreme Court ruling essentially treated these frozen embryos these children these humans as humans and when they were Destroyed by an IVF clinic without authorization.

This was This was it opened the door for them to be sued and these kinds of things and so IVF Clinic said we can't operate if that's the case because that's pretty standard procedure now. You don't have to if you're doing IVF treatment, you do not have to destroy frozen embryos.

That's an option. But it's standard procedure for them to do this and only pick the most viable ones in their minds to implant. So the new law provides criminal and criminal immunity in connection with in vitro services and death or damage of an embryo it states that no action suit or criminal prosecution for the death to or damage of an embryo shall be brought or Maintained against any individual or entity when providing or receiving services related to in vitro fertilization.

So from my perspective just from reading that this isn't good. Because this law does not address whether embryos created through IVF or considered children under state law. It also doesn't protect, you know.

It doesn't give immunity if you're working with frozen embryos outside of IVF procedures. It really all it is is like you can keep doing IVF including destroying these frozen embryos. That's at least my read on it.

And that's bad Donald Trump portrays it and maybe his understanding of it is is it just it's and I think there's a lot of people's understanding. Oh, this is just allowing IVF to continue and is an IVF great it's like in the argument I tried to weave a few months ago is If you want to have IVF, it should be regulated at the very least there should be laws to protect Children if that's if you're creating children here from being destroyed and I realize there's all kinds of questions and they're all kinds of Complexities this but it is navigable.

It is able to be navigated. I think this is a possibility and so They didn't want to dip their toe in that though. They just wanted to give immunity and that's an easy road in my mind. So another thing I should say, oh, sorry before I get to this Arizona because that was the other thing.

He kind of tipped his hat to Arizona saying, Arizona People who are against this law, you know, they're in the right and the Democrats were the ones against this. The Republicans were for Kerry Lake, unfortunately was against it.

But there was a law and it's it's a Civil War era law. This is what you're here all the time. It's it's so well, I'll play you a video in a moment that shows you exactly what how this is being portrayed.

But this is the law just so everyone knows. Every person who shall administer or cause to be administered or taken any medical medicinal rather Substances or shall use or cause to be used at any instruments Whatever with the intention to procure the miscarriage of any woman then being with child and shall be thereof Duly convicted shall be punished by imprisonment in the territorial prison for a term not less than two years nor more than five months Provided that no physician shall be affected by the last clause of this section who in the discharges professional duties deems it Necessary to produce the miscarriage of any woman in order to save her life.

So there you have I Suppose you could say somewhat of an exception there. Well, that's the law 1864 law and of course the way this law is being portrayed pretty much universally.

Is like this is no abortion ban. Yeah, it's actually not new at all. It's a hundred and sixty years old. The Civil War era law makes it illegal to procure a miscarriage and says that anyone who performs an abortion or helps somebody get one Could face two to five years in prison.

And when we say this law is old We mean old. To put it in perspective Arizona wasn't even a state yet when the law was first passed in 1864. The Civil War was still going on and slavery was still legal.

Women couldn't vote child labor was still allowed cars weren't invented yet. So even if you could get an abortion, you might have had to take a horse and carriage to the appointment electricity at home.

That wouldn't be widely used for another few decades. In short It was an entirely different time when this law was enacted. But now the Arizona Supreme Court has made it a very present reality for the state's residents.

It effectively bans abortion in the entire state from the moment of conception. Before the recent ruling abortion was legal in Arizona until the 15-week mark. The only exception to the law is if an abortion is Necessary to save the pregnant person's life.

The law could take effect in as little as two weeks.

Okay, so that was from now this which is very Liberal leftist I was essay leftist publication and but this is universal every article I read on this everything I saw online about this was it's so old.

It's a Civil War era law and This is a great argument to just ditch the Constitution. This is a great argument for Christians to say though. I guess the Bible doesn't matter. I mean, it's even much older think of all the things happening during but you know the I you want to talk about slavery.

Let's go back to Roman slavery. I mean that was really More egregious in so many ways than the American system and you know, you could point out all kinds of things. I mean, they didn't know that you're washing your hands killed germs and you know.

It was so terrible and you want to go back to a moral law that was given at that time. Written down in these these canonical books. I mean That's the problem is there's this assumption that people were morally inferior and and and this is seems to be universal.

It seems to be something that people think that we didn't know what a human was and it's so archaic. No one knew. Because look at all these these labor and of course, what do they appeal to technology labor relationships and social arrangements?

Technology labor relationships and social arrangements which have changed. You know, especially with the Industrial Revolution and the rise of the merchant class and managerial elitism and modernity.

Of course.

These things have been in flux for now a few centuries and they've been changing and that that's why those things have been changing. There's new arrangements based on economic factors mostly and Technological technology factors and and so you would expect some of those things to change Given the conditions, but that doesn't change Objective morality, right?

So that's kind of the distinction here that I would make when you compare the you know, The light bulb to whether we whether a human is a human whether a baby is a human like we're talking about apples and oranges In many ways here and and that's what they're trying to trick us with.

It's like hey, you've seen medical advances, haven't you? Well, that must mean that we just know more and there's nothing we know more now medically speaking. Concerning whether the baby is a human and then they knew in 1864.

So this is just the bias of thinking that things that are new and innovative are better and. And it's a bias against the past and it we should push back against that. That's wrong. Just because it's from 1864 doesn't mean it's archaic or you know wrong.

There's certain things that can be archaic that are suited to different Cultures because of technology or labor relationships or social arrangements, but that's not what we're talking about in this case.

We're talking about what's a human? So that being said The Donald Trump seemed to he indicated that he thought that was a mistake. He didn't really say why but I'm assuming if he's consistent if there's any consistency there it would be because he's for additional exceptions not just the exception of The life of the mother but also rape and incest so that's what Donald Trump said.

And of course, it's an election year and he wants to remain competitive and I really think that's all there is to this now. He made one other statement that I wanted to show you on Lindsey Graham. He said senator Lindsey Graham is doing a great disservice to the GOP.

At first he wanted to know abortions under any circumstances. Then he was up to six weeks when you're allowed abortion now. He's up to 15 weeks when you're allowed abortion. But what he doesn't understand or perhaps he does is the radical left Democrats who are destroying our country will never approve anything that he Or the Republicans want.

I mean, he's right about that his instincts on the Democrats are right. They love this issue and they want to keep it going for as long as Republicans will allow them to do that. So terminating Roe v. Wade was according to all legal scholars a great event.

But sometimes with great events come difficulties any good Republicans lost elections because of this issue and people like Lindsey Graham that are Unrelenting are handing Democrats their dreams of the House Senate and perhaps even the presidency so this just indicates it proves everything I'm saying that there's the Trump is.

His rhetoric is shifting. He's emphasizing more that he's not going to on the federal level do it like an abortion ban like he could anyway. Because of this political strategy, I don't see anything policy wise changing with Trump.

But he is shifting his rhetoric and he thinks and really what is senator Lindsey Graham doing his rhetoric is out of step with Trump's Pro-lifers had absolutely zero status. He says on the subject of abortion until I came along now, that's just arrogant.

For 52 years everyone talked but got nothing. I got it done now there is some truth to this in the sense that why why was it Trump? I mean and this may be the good the best argument for pro-lifers and anti-abortion advocates is Electing Donald Trump.

He is someone who will push hard for what he says he's going to do and you had a lot of pro-lifers just talking about what they were gonna do and they didn't push hard and Trump did push hard and guess what happened.

What what people said would never happen happened. Trump's right about that in a sense now to say they had absolutely zero status that's not right, but like he is right that he he gave a seat at the table for anti-abortion people and That seat still is there.

It's still at the table. All right. There would be no one who would talk about the six-week ban or anything else without me. Roe v. Wade allowed the killing of baby at any time. Including 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th month and even after birth.

They are the radicals not us. So so he's reframing the pro-life movement as we believe in that like Ronald Reagan I believe in these exceptions rape incest life of the mother.

But.

The six-week ban on abortions among other things. Let's see. He's going after Lindsey Graham. I think in the same post here. It'll be hard to win elections with these six-week bans on abortion among other things so I Think that's I'm reading this, correct.

So So so he's trying to take this sort of middle road and he's always kind of been here he's been squishy. Squishy ish on abortion, but the advantage again to Donald Trump is he needs pro-life people?

Otherwise, he can't win. He does have an instinct that is at least against infanticide and he's against the Democrats will never accept him because he is against Late-term abortion bans and he is for federalism in that he opened this up on the state level to be decided among the states.

There's no room that at the abolitionist quote-unquote or anti abortion advocates would have on the state level if Donald Trump Hadn't bought point the Supreme Court justices He had they would not have latitude to really do much because the people in their states that even the pro-lifers Who are not as anti abortion as we would hope would keep saying well the federal law the Supreme Court ruling rather says that abortion is Legal and now they don't have that so you can work on the state level and that's where the battle is gonna be fought.

So it's a federalist kind of approach to this now I asked I asked online what people thought like how they thought abortion should be banned. Whether it should be through, you know, 50 states 50 separate laws banning it whether it should be through executive order whether it should be through.

You know, I didn't really I didn't have enough space I couldn't put Supreme Court ruling but Supreme Court ruling what you know. What is it that you think and people were all over the place? I'll just say personally I tend to favor I'm for like saving lives no matter what but if I had to choose I would favor all 50 states making it Illegal, I mean that would be there.

They're not gonna do that though, right but that would be ideal.

The.

Thing is if you do impose an abortion ban. And I don't think this is the legal capital just isn't there to do it at this point. But if that were possible if that happened then what you would have is you would have States like New York and Massachusetts and California and Washington and Oregon.

And maybe Hawaii and some other really hard like pro abortion states. They would be they would defy it I'm Certain of that. They would totally defy it and then you could say well let them defy it and then we're gonna have you know the this crisis and in the situation we're in now, I think the best.

The greatest amount of babies are going to be saved.

Through.

Working on the state level in the situation. We're in you force it on the federal or the national general level. You're going to have states Defy it and there's going to be a crisis, which I don't know where that would go to be quite honest with you.

That's what I think at least that would that be my prediction because they are so in the tank for this. If you do it if you. Well, I guess that's the only option right? I mean you you'd have to come down hard and you'd have to go full Lincoln I guess you just have to invade the states that don't do what you say.

And of course The way that this would go if you were doing it without a constitutional amendment I think would probably be unconstitutional someone people try to make Fifth Amendment arguments and these kinds of things.

But I think we're reaching back into a time when they weren't thinking this was much. This wasn't like a possibility in the minds of the founders that this would be a thing that abortion would be this industry so it I tend to think that Actually, I'm against the incorporation doctrine and I think that You would have to amend the Constitution.

So if you wanted to keep the Constitution and try to do this from a legal standpoint. So so the two arguments I see that are the best arguments for the pro-life approaches, right? These are just this is somewhat hypothetical.

But I but but there's there's two one is Constitution is kind of a dead document. The left doesn't follow it. We're past that they think it's archaic and all this let's just Enter a new paradigm and and and this is where the people with the Protestant Franco mindset come in and then there's the more let's kind of try to keep the best of this federalist tradition and band together in in a loose alliance as much as possible against foreign powers and threats, but Let us have shades of difference between us and and sometimes those differences can be more than shades where one state.

Is.