October 7, 2019 Show with Ron Luff on “Warning Signs You’re In a Cult (From A Prison Inmate Serving Life Who Saw Them Too Late)”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

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Good afternoon, cumberland county, pennsylvania lake city, florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth. We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is chris arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy monday on the seventh day of october 2019.

Ron Luff’s Background and the Reorganized Latter-day Saints

And today we're having a first time Interview, uh, that is first time in more than one way. It's not just that my guest has never been interviewed on this program before. But we're also going to be interviewing somebody for the first time from prison.

And uh, our guest today is ron luff. Those of you who listened to our program last friday Will recall that we interviewed? Barb luff the mother of our guest today. Uh barb was a fascinating guest and uh, she was joined by paul trask and a dear friend of hers.

Who is actually Uh the publisher of ron's book faith gone astray unveiling the kirtland cult murders. Uh, he published that through refining fire ministries and he publishes other Books by former members of the reorganized latter-day saint cult and uh today We have ron on and he is going to be discussing Faith gone astray unveiling the kurt cult murders and warning signs.

You're in a cult from a prison inmate serving life who saw them too late. In fact, as I said, we are interviewing ron from the allen correctional institution in lima, ohio. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to iron sharpens iron radio.

Ron luff.

Oh, thank you for having me on.

And uh, tell us uh, first of all ron, uh, how long have you been in prison right now?

Well, i've been almost wow. And how how young were you when you?

Uh were incarcerated in the beginning 29 29. Well, well god has certainly done a remarkable work in you. Uh since. Uh, you've been incarcerated, uh now first of all, uh, as I do with Every first time guest on this program.

I'd like to know something about.

Your.

Religious. The religious atmosphere of your home growing up as a child uh, and then we'll continue from there. And how you eventually entered into a dangerous cult. That a decision that you obviously regret very.

Tremendously, but if you could tell us about your upbringing your family, uh, uh religion and so on.

Sure, I was from what I understand, uh,.

The.

Some of the differences are that they never practiced plural marriages. In fact uh, I don't know if they still do but they Denied that joseph smith ever was involved in polygamy.

And uh.

They do not believe that they can attain godhood uh by their obedience and there are some other Significant things. I don't believe that they baptize for the dead either. Do they?

No, the fact they don't do any. Yes, and if anybody wants more details on the reorganized.

Latter-day saints. You could later on go to the iron trip and xyron website Which is iron trip and xyron radio .com and if you go to the past shows Podcast section where we have our past programs archived You could type in the search engine paul trask t-r-a-s-k.

Uh, and uh the interview that comes up where he gives a lot of the Details about the reorganized latter-day saints cult. Will be there. And we've also interviewed a couple of other folks That have been published through paul trask's ministry refining fire ministries.

Uh, so, uh, if you need any help just send me an email and i'll get back to you. Uh at chrisarnson at gmail .com. Well, uh from what I learned last friday from your mother the You first got introduced into What would be sort of uh an offshoot of the rlds?

Uh orchestrated by jeff lungren Who was a tour guide at the very temple that you just mentioned in infinite, missouri. If you could tell us about your initial meeting with him and what came to be.

The factors that drew you into this cult. Well if you do go normal. So for him to have changed his turn.

Warning Signs of a Cult and Jeff Lundgren’s Leadership

Now, uh, what to what do you attribute now that you are born again believer and will be getting To that, uh momentarily, which is the best part of the interview to hear about your new life in christ that you Received by god's grace and mercy while in prison.

But uh In hindsight now What what do you attribute to these? Voices and dreams that your wife had. And did you say it was just your wife or did you also experience this?

I actually didn't and begins at the time. I really didn't have any experience of that nature, but she seemed to. And they generally.

Now would you say as a christian and recognizing that while you were a minister and while you were married to a woman having these Experiences that include hearing voices and so on. Uh, and you recognize that this was a cult you were in now.

Would you say that this could possibly have been demonic experiences were they faked? Were they psychosomatic or was it a desperate attempt to just? Please those in the religion around her that that perhaps, uh.

Put her in that. That mental kind of a condition where she was hearing these things. And did you say she was also seeing visions or was it dreams? Now, uh, so you believe that although they were evil they were real.

You don't believe she was faking it. Now if you could um. Tell us some more details about the cult leader jeff longren. And obviously. Uh, you already mentioned that. There were things that uh.

Made you.

Fascinated by him and so on. Tell us about Why you put such trust in this man?

And.

What were the warning signs that you now see in hindsight that there was? Something going terribly wrong with him and the way that he was thinking teaching And preaching and so on.

Hmm.

And so.

When did you begin. And I don't know if you began to realize this at all. Prior to your incarceration. Uh or prior to the crimes that have laid you in prison. And of course, we've already agreed that i'm not going to go into detail about any of the crime itself.

But if anybody Wants to learn more about the specific details. Ron has written a book faith gone astray. And uh, the subtitle is unveiling the kirtland cult murders. And uh, i'll be giving you details later on on how you can get a hold of that book.

Uh, it's published by Refining fire ministries a ministry founded by paul trask who is on our program last friday with with ron's mother barb, but um. When did you begin to realize this?

Man.

Has really gone off the rails this man. Uh, I really should not be listening to him or obeying him. Did any of this start to take place? Before the crimes before your incarceration.

Oh, no. Yes. Well since you just mentioned the murders i'll just tell our listeners the basic minimum.

Uh, there was a family in this cult Uh a husband wife and I believe three children who were murdered and our guest today actually did not Physically Participate in the murder, but was involved as an accomplice and we don't need to go any further than that.

And of course, there are also more details that were given by Ron's mother barb last friday In the interview we conducted with her and you could look that up in the archive as well at some point.

Um, so.

When you were saying you were using the book of mormon as a map uh, how. How could that possibly? Work itself out as using it as a map to survive in the wilderness. I'm just curious about that. No, what was that?

Was that with this man's permission that you were living in his barn?

Yes, we were and we were doing chores for him there on the phone and that was an arrangement that jeff now.

Was your brother involved religiously?

In any.

Religious group the rlds or any other group?

Yeah, he was. Well, we're gonna pick up.

Uh where we left off there when we returned from our first station break. We are not taking listener questions today so, uh, just Please be as patient as possible as we take this commercial break. And as always please write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can patronize them More successfully and more frequently.

Because remember folks we depend upon the advertising dollars from our sponsors. To exist we could not be on the air without them. So just keep that in mind. And we'll be right back after these messages with more of ron luff and his warning signs that he wants to Provide all of you, uh that he has discovered the hard way in hindsight.

Uh.

The warning signs that you may be in a cult so don't go away. We'll be back after these messages from our sponsors. I'm, so grateful to our sovereign god that while manning an exhibitor's booth for iron sharpens iron a major bible conference I providentially met pastor andrew smith of christ reformed community church.

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Shipped out to the allen correctional institution in limo, ohio for our guest today ron luff. And for those of you who just tuned us in ron luff is a former reorganized latter-day saint. Who converted by god's grace to biblical christianity in prison while serving a life sentence as an accomplice to murder?

And the author of the book faith gone astray unveiling the kirtland cult murderers today We are discussing warning signs. You're in a cult from a prison inmate serving life who saw them too late. And as I said before we're not taking questions today from our listeners and so perhaps you could send in questions when we.

Have.

Ron's mom back in the future or paul trask who published the book faith gone astray. Uh ron we had reached a point in our discussion before the commercial break where your brother was trying to talk some sense into you.

He was a member of the reorganized latter-day saint cult, but he was not as aggressively or Enthusiastically zealous as you were.

Uh, so if you want to pick up that story where you left off began to make me now prior to that.

Uh prior to the crimes.

Uh.

Did you have any family members and friends? Just telling you ron, you know, you're. You're in a crazy group. You're in a cult.

You got to get out of there. Did you hear anything like that from people that knew you what's happening there? Because only one of course.

Uh.

History tells us that those who have been involved in acts of great evil.

Uh.

Typically are people who are have some kind of charm to them something that masks their evil uh hearts and minds and intentions and therefore that's why they lure people in. That's why serial killers very often are very successful at what they do.

Unfortunately and uh why people who have Risen as dictators of countries you could go into all forms and levels of.

Evil.

And obviously the reorganized Uh latter-day saint congregations in that area. They must have thought highly at least to a degree of ron of jeff lungren because they had him as the the tour guide in the temple.

Reading people. Yes, and uh.

Obviously there was a point where jeff lungren the Cult leader and obviously we're discussing two cults today. Even the mainline rlds Uh historically protestant and biblically sound christians would view that as a cult.

Uh, but it would be obviously not to the level.

Uh that.

Jeff lungren brought this group into. Uh, the rlds would not uh be a violent group or. Uh, in fact today it was interesting that you mentioned that they were somewhat considering themselves more like.

Uh.

Mainline protestants uh or protestant christians today. The community of christ as they are known are very much Like and and to some degree indistinguishable from liberal mainline protestants.

Yeah, they would church or something. I understand it but uh.

As far as the group that jeff lungren was uh overseeing that you were a part of. Uh, did this group ever officially. Say we are no longer a part of the rlds. Or did local congregations uh local ministers.

Uh bishops or what have you ever say. You guys have apostatized from us. You are not.

Teaching.

True historic rlds Doctrine, etc. Was there any point where there was a clear? Uh visible recognizable split.

Yeah, that was now. Did jeff lungren ever adopt a new name for the group or anything like that. Did he ever spell out.

Specifically, these are the new rules. Uh, this is what we are abandoning from the old group, etc.

Well what he did. Like that world view is that I used to write now.

When uh, you guys broke away from the mainline rlds through the leadership of jeff lungren uh, did you Notice anything that was intrinsically or innately violent about the teachings uh in this group this schism.

Uh before the murders took place some people have actually gone back to in the group.

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