September 20, 2017 with Chris Rosebrough on “The Protestant Reformation: Why it Was Necessary & Why it’s Still Needed”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, We are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this

20th day of September 2017.

And today we have back on the program someone who I thoroughly enjoyed interviewing last time,

Chris Roseborough, a confessional Lutheran and pastor of Kongsvinger Lutheran

Church in Oslo, Minnesota, which is a part of the American Association of

Lutheran Churches, and he runs Pirate Christian Radio and hosts the Fighting

for the Faith podcast.

Today we are going to be addressing the Protestant Reformation.

Why was it necessary and why is it still needed?

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Chris Roseborough.

Thanks for having me back, Chris.

And in studio with me again is my co -host, the Reverend Buzz Taylor.

Yes, Chris, and Chris, it's good to be back.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our e -mail address is chrisarnsen at gmail

.com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please always give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, and please only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter.

And so, Chris, before we go into the topic, for those of our listeners who have not heard you

on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio before, tell us something again about Kongsvinger

Lutheran Church in Oslo, Minnesota.

Sure.

Congregations.

We have farmers in

our congregation in almost a century and

a half.

And you are a part of the American Association of Lutheran Churches.

That is correct.

ALC is a conservative...

Well, as the saying goes, it's not your grandmother's Lutheran Church, if your grandmother was a leftist or communist.

And tell us about Pirate Christian Radio.

And Fighting for the Faith is the podcast you host.

Tell us something about that.

Sure.

That's the apologetics program.

If

anybody

wants to find out more about Pirate Christian Radio, just go to.

Piratechristianradio .com.

Piratechristian .com.

And preferably do that after the program is over.

You can find out more about Chris and his podcast.

We'll be repeating that information later on as well.

Before I even go into the topic again, the Protestant Reformation, I saw the other

evening what I thought was an excellent program, even though all of the

participants were not necessarily biblically orthodox.

There were some who were very biblically orthodox.

It was kind of a mixture of guests, or should I say,

featured speakers on this program.

I'm assuming, judging by some of the locations where some of them were from,

meaning the schools and so on, that some of them may have been more towards the liberal side of things.

But everybody who was a participant in this documentary was basically sticking to the facts of

history.

So I never found myself wincing or cringing or yelling at my television set.

But I'm speaking of the documentary Martin Luther, The Idea That Changed the World.

I was wondering what your thoughts on that were, if you saw it.

A very fascinating documentary,

leading

up

to the

Reformation,

where the Church completed

all

of this.

I'm getting ahead of myself.

It was a great documentary.

Yeah, the Roman Catholic, or at least the only one that I was certain was a Roman Catholic that participated, was

Archbishop Timothy Nolan, or Dolan, I'm sorry.

And he was speaking with such passion, like he was

empathizing and relating to Luther.

And I was thinking to myself, I'd like to get this guy in the show, just to ask him, well, if you think this was such

an important event in history, and you seem to empathize with Luther's struggle on how he

could be made right with God, even though he continued to sin, I want to ask him, well, how do you

feel about that?

How do you feel about being right with God in the midst of the fact that you sin?

Is it just because of your rituals and rites that wash that away, that

anxiety and that fear?

But right now, obviously, I don't have the opportunity to ask him that, but who knows, maybe in the future.

But it was interesting just to see him never say, of course, this was an edited documentary, so they never

had anything negative he had to say about Luther.

He actually did admit that the Church of Rome in the 16th century was corrupt.

He actually said it a couple of times.

Yes, he did.

And by the way, if anybody wants to check out where they can find out more about that movie, you can go to

newluthermovie .com, and there's some excellent people on

that documentary as well.

It's not just people from aberrant backgrounds, but like Dr. Carl Truman of

Westminster Theological Seminary, who has been on this program, Iron Sharpens Iron, was a part of that.

And there were folks from Concordia Theological Seminary who spoke,

and others.

So I do highly recommend it because, as I said, as Chris Roseborough also said,

in spite of the diversity of theological backgrounds represented in the documentary, they were just

speaking about the documentable facts of history about Luther.

So I think a very highly recommendable program or documentary.

Well, we are now going to enter into the reason the Protestant Reformation began.

And if you could give us some background on Martin Luther, obviously he was raised a

Roman Catholic and so on in Germany.

Tell us about whatever you know in regard to what led him into the priesthood,

and when his heart and mind began to be

troubled, in fact even tormented, in regard to his ongoing remaining sin and

so on.

Just tell us something about that background so we can have the setting from which the Protestant Reformation sprang.

Easy

read, but

mining.

And he

was on

some Roman

Catholic

cathedral.

Medieval

Romans

would come

riding

in on

the rainbow.

They

would kind

of become

a monk, and he had been

a

monk.

By

the

way,

if

anybody

listening

wants to get a

hold

of

Here I

Stand by

Roland

Baton,.

You can go to cvbbs .com, cv for Crumlin Valley, bbs for BibleBookService .com.

The only two nice hardback editions I know of in print right now are

published by Hendrickson Publishers and also by Abington Press,

A -B -I -N -G -D -O -N Press.

So just ask cvbbs .com if you want a nice hardback to look up one of those

editions of Here I Stand.

And I saw the movie, a different movie that I really enjoyed.

I don't know how accurate you believe this one was, but the one that came out in 2003 starring

Joseph Fiennes as Martin Luther.

Did you see that one as well?

Oh yeah, I've seen all of the editions of that.

Did you enjoy that?

Did you think it was historically accurate?

Well, that's actually what I was going to ask you about.

Because I think it makes a theological point here.

During Luther's torment as a monk, because of the fact that he knew

that every thought that he had was tainted with sin, he could not escape sin, he could not

find peace, he was flogging himself and doing all kinds of things to

torture his own body, taking ice -cold showers and sleeping outside,

and all kinds of things like that.

I don't know if there were showers back then, maybe baths.

But the movie depicts him almost as if during

that time he was either going insane or he was demon -possessed or he was being

tormented by demons.

Do you think that that was an exaggeration?

Or do you think that that was somewhere close to what Luther was going through?

I don't know if he was being tormented by demons, maybe overstepping,

but it makes a point, and the point theatrically that's being made is that Luther

himself, in the midst of all of this, is tortured.

And that's really what it comes down to.

These man -made doctrines of medieval Catholicism, they torture a soul

and keep from them any assurance of salvation and always paint God in a

light where he is only stern judge.

He's never loving or kind or father or anything of that nature.

And as a result of it, the German term

for what Luther experienced, and there's not quite an English translation for it, is

affectum, and it's the soul that he's

experiencing.

And so the theatrical movie itself kind of depicts him in a way that may be

overstepping it, but it's in the right ballpark and it's trying to find a theatrical way of

describing the affectum that Luther went through.

And so I think it makes a valid point, although it's depicted theatrically, but it still

gets you at least in the right place to kind of begin to understand what exactly he

had gone through.

And so I believe, before he nails his 95

theses to the door of the castle church in Wittenberg, does he not make a pilgrimage to Rome?

He leaves Germany and goes to Rome and he finds out just how

filled with debauchery and wickedness the church was, not only with priests

seemingly routinely visiting prostitutes and the sale of

trinkets and idols and relics everywhere.

And he was becoming more and more dismayed, and I believe it was a big surprise to him when

he visited Rome.

He was surprised at the open wickedness.

Am I right there?

Yeah, no,

that's

absolutely

as hard labor and work

as a monk.

And they still do.

They still do that.

So

you're

saying

that these priests were doing mock masses.

Because they were militating against their religion's own belief in transubstantiation.

Yeah, I have heard from my friend Richard Bennett.

Richard Bennett, I don't know if you're familiar with him.

He is a former Roman Catholic priest who became a

Calvinistic Protestant and still is, runs a ministry called Berean Beacon.

But he has told me that nothing frightens the Church of Rome like

an ex -priest, because they believe that those priests, those former priests I should say, can

still bring about the miracle of transubstantiation with bread and wine, and they

are fearful that they will do things to those consecrated Eucharists that would be

satanic or blasphemous or something.

But it's amazing to me that they actually believe, it's such a superstitious view, that no matter what an

ordained priest does, he can never lose that so -called power.

Yeah,

and this has

to do,

they

believe

that when

a...

Yeah, I know, I know.

And in fact, a lot of what you said makes perfect sense when you think about why

the Church of Rome will put under discipline or even excommunicate someone for

ordaining priests outside of the

official connection and communion with Rome.

Like for instance, when Bishop Lefebvre split because of his belief

that the Church of Rome had become apostate, he began ordaining priests and they

basically were saying that he was committing an illegal act by doing that.

I don't mean illegal in regard to the law of the land, I'm talking about the law of

the Church.

But it makes sense now the way that you phrased it, that they have to have a pedigree in their ordination.

Yes.

And so from there, when Luther returns, very disgruntled and dismayed over what he has

experienced in Rome, how long after that did he nail his protest to the practice of

indulgence selling, the 95 Theses, to the door of the castle church in Wittenberg?

So it's

not

too

late to

get

Luther's

lecture on the psalm...

Could you do that as soon as we return from the break, because we have to take our first break.

Sure, no problem.

Okay, we're going to be going to our first break.

If anybody would like to join us, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Don't go away, we're going to be right back with Chris Roseborough and the Protestant Reformation.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars, a year -round Bible conference and retreat

center nestled on the Jersey Shore.

Harvey Cedars offers a wide range of accommodations to suit groups up to 400.

For generations, Christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at Harvey Cedars.

Each year, thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about God's Word.

An additional 9 ,000 come annually to Harvey Cedars as families, couples,

singles, men, women, pastors, seniors, and missionaries.

90 miles from New York City, 70 miles from Philly, and 95 miles from Wilmington,

and easily accessible, scores of notable Christian groups frequently plan conferences at

Harvey Cedars, like The Navigators, InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, Campus

Crusade, and the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals.

Find Harvey Cedars on Facebook or at hcbible .org.

Hcbible .org.

Call 609 -494 -5689.

609 -494 -5689.

Harvey Cedars, where Christ finds people and changes lives.

Charles Hedens Purgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at Solid -Ground -Books .com.

That's Solid -Ground -Books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past

to present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Have you been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio?

We remain on the air because of our faithful sponsors and because of listeners like you.

There are four ways you can help.

First, do you know potential sponsors who may wish to advertise their goods or services on Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio?

Second, whenever possible, purchase the products or use the services that our sponsors advertise,

and then let them know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Thirdly, you can also donate to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio by going to our website at

IronSharpensIronRadio .com and click support at the top of the page.

But most importantly, keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in your prayers.

We hope that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio blesses you for many years to come.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to A Visit to the Pastors Study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 pm Eastern Time on WLIE Radio

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the Pastors Study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the Pastors Study because everyone needs

a pastor.

And that was the voice of Bill Shishko who is a domestic missionary with

Reformation Metro New York and host, as he said, of the, or should I say, of A Visit to

the Pastors Study.

And Pastor Bill is going to be our keynote speaker at the next Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

Pastors Luncheon on Thursday, October 6th.

This is going to be a Reformation Day Pastors Luncheon just a few days from the actual Reformation Day.

And we invite everyone who is in church leadership if you are a man in church

leadership whether you are a pastor or an elder I happen to believe those two

are the same offices but some churches distinguish pastor from elder or a

deacon or a parachurch leader.

You are welcome to attend this luncheon absolutely free of charge.

Not only will you be fed for free compliments of Firehouse Subs here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania

but you're also going to be fed spiritually by Pastor Bill Shishko who is one of the finest speakers I've ever heard

and quite a brilliant brother in Christ who is a professor at the Greenville

Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylor, South Carolina.

But on top of that you're going to be leaving there.

You're going to be leaving that luncheon with a sack, a very heavy sack filled with

brand new free books that I have personally selected from nearly every single major

Christian publisher in the United States and the United Kingdom with very few exceptions.

Nearly every single major Christian publisher has donated every year

that I've done this going back to the 1990s a copy of a

book that I select for every single pastor or leader that attends this

luncheon.

This is all absolutely free of charge.

There's no hidden agenda.

This was an idea born from the mind of my precious late wife, Julie back in the 1990s

and I've continued this tradition ever since and there is no Amway salesman

is not going to show up.

There's nothing hidden about this.

It's just to bless you who are in the ministry so if you'd like to attend this it's going to be held at the

Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall in Carlisle, Pennsylvania which is quite a spacious banquet hall that they rent out

for weddings and other special events and we look forward to seeing you there.

If you can make it please register it's free registration but please register by emailing me at chrisarnson at

gmail dot com.

Chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

We are now back to our discussion with Chris Rosebro of Pirate Christian Radio and he

is discussing the Protestant Reformation.

Why it was necessary and why it's still needed and you were just about to read something from an

important text that relates to our discussion today.

Yes, it's.

Romans

is

righteous

even once

there

could

be

stopped

and the whole world may be.

That's right.

I am

wondering

if

anybody

tuned

in

late and they heard you just going through

that depiction.

They must have thought that Iron Sharpens Iron went through a radical transformation or something.

You know it's interesting in some ways.

That is a proto -modern evangelical

heresy of easy -believism.

Yeah.

Well I mean some of the word of faith.

Healers do too.

Yeah they do.

Bulletin board.

Yeah.

And how does Pope Leo get a hold of this.

Somebody gets in one.

It's

never

in

the

medieval

system.

Why is it that Luther and we'll get to this point when we return from the break.

The diet of worms and so forth.

Or diet of verms.

But why is it that he is considered such a danger where you

have priests as you were saying before doing mock masses seemingly fearlessly and so on.

Does it go back to what I just said about even the modern day church of Rome where pretty much you could get away with anything

unless you're globally known and notorious about something.

It's part of that

we're going to get to that showdown when we return from our break.

If you would like to join us on the air we already have several people waiting to have their questions asked and answered.

But I'd like to have Chris bring us through some more pivotal and vital points of the Reformation

before we take your questions or should I say before I read them.

But we are accepting your questions now so please email them.

If you would like to have your question read and answered on air our email address is

chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

Chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

Please give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA don't go away.

God willing we are going to be right back after these messages with more of Chris Roseborough and the Protestant Reformation.

Why was it necessary and is it still needed.

Hi.

I'm Chris Arnzen host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here to tell you about an exciting offer from World

Magazine my trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

Try World at no charge for 90 days and get a free copy of R .C. Sproul's book

Relationship Between Church and State.

I rely on World because I trust the reporting.

I gain insight from the analysis and World provides clarity to the news stories that really matter.

I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's

simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage.

World can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.

This trial includes bi -weekly issues of World Magazine on scene reporting from World Radio

and the fully shareable content of World Digital.

Simply visit wmg .org to

get your World Trial and Dr. Sproul's book all free no obligation with no credit card

required.

Visit worldnewsgroup at wmg .org.

Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools juvenile institutions,

coffee shops and local hangouts Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people

who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in

need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future volunteer, donate, pray or all

of the above.

For details call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385

-8333 that's 631 -385

-8333 or visit liyfc .org

that's liyfc .org.

Iron Sharpens Iron welcomes Solid Rock Remodeling to our family of sponsors serving South

Central Pennsylvania.

Solid Rock Remodeling is focused on discovering, understanding and exceeding your

expectations.

They deliver personalized project solutions with exceptional results.

Solid Rock Remodeling offers a full range of home renovations including kitchen and bath

remodeling decks, porches windows and doors roof and siding and

more.

For a clear detailed professional estimate call this trustworthy team of problem solvers

who provide superior results that stand the test of time.

Call Solid Rock Remodeling at 717 -697 -1981

717 -697 -1981 or visit

solidrockremodeling .com.

That's solidrockremodeling .com Solid Rock Remodeling bringing new life to

your home.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to A Visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 pm Eastern Time on WLIE Radio

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the Pastor's Study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for A Visit to the Pastor's Study because everyone needs

a pastor.

Tired of bop store Christianity?

Of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert?

Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

And how about the preaching?

Perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

Well, there's good news.

Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience

featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.

Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times 631

-929 -3512.

Or check out their website at wrbc .us.

That's w -r -b -c -dot -u -s.

I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in -depth study.

Used by pastors, scholars and everyday readers the NASV is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible

translation.

The NASV offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages which the NASV is known for.

The NASV is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible.

Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy the new topical reference Bible includes contemporary topics

relevant to today's issues.

From compact to giant print Bibles.

Find an NASV that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible .com.

Whichever edition you choose.

Trust, discover and enjoy the NASV for yourself today.

Go to nasbible .com.

That's nasbible .com.

Are you a Christian looking to align your faith and finances?

Then you'll want to check out Thriving Financial.

We're not your typical financial services provider.

We're a not -for -profit Fortune 500 organization that helps our nearly 2 .4 million members be wise

with money.

We provide guidance that reflects your values so you can protect what matters most.

We help members live generously and strengthen the communities where they live, work and worship.

Learn more about the Thriving story by contacting me, Mike Gallagher Financial Consultant

at 717 -254 -6433 717 -254 -6433 717

-254 -6433.

We know we were made for so much more than

ordinary life.

We know we were made for so much more than ordinary life.

Lending faith, finances and generosity.

That's the Thriving story.

That's the Thriving story.

Just survive.

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor Frequent co -host with Chris Arntzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS.

CVBBS which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

Todd and Patty specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable

to everyone.

Since 1987 the family owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available Christian books

and Bibles at the best possible prices.

Unlike other book sites they make no effort to provide every book that is available because frankly, much of what

is being printed is not worth your time.

That means you can get to the good stuff faster.

It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical and

otherwise faith insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

Their website is CVBBS .com.

Browse the pages at ease shop at your leisure and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work

in service to you the church and to Christ.

That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at CVBBS .com.

That's CVBBS .com.

That's CVBBS .com.

Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And don't forget about the CVBBS .com sale on all commentaries

hardback, Reformed expository commentaries all 50 off at

CVBBS .com.

All 50 % off at CVBBS .com.

And make sure that you mention that you heard about that sale from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Welcome back, we are if you just tuned us in for the next hour

continuing a discussion that we began an hour ago on the Protestant Reformation why it was

necessary and why it's still needed with our guest Chris Rosebro a confessional Lutheran

and pastor of Kongsvinger Lutheran Church in Oslo, Minnesota.

He also runs Pirate Christian Radio and hosts Fighting for the Faith

a podcast on theology.

And if you would like to join us on the air with a question regarding the Protestant Reformation our email address is chrisarnzen at

gmail .com c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

But before I go back to Chris and our discussion I have some important announcements to make

in regard to special events that our sponsors are having.

First of all, we have coming up on September 29th and September 30th which is a Friday and Saturday

the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York in cooperation with the Long Island

Spurgeon Fellowship present the Gospel of the Reformation a 500th anniversary celebration featuring my

dear friend Dr. Tony Costa who is professor of apologetics and Islam

at Toronto Baptist Seminary and this is a free event

if you would like to register it's a free registration but they want to have a headcount as soon as possible you can

go to wotchurch .com w -o -t which stands for Word of Truth church .com

wotchurch .com or call them at 631 -806

-0614 631 -806 -0614

631 -806 -0614.

On Sunday, October 1st the aforementioned Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary

will be speaking at the Sunday morning worship service at 11 at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of

Medford, Long Island, New York and if you want more details on how to get to Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to

hopereformedli .net hopereformedli .net.

God willing, I am going to be on Long Island that whole weekend from Friday to Sunday with an Iron Trepans

Iron Exhibitors booth so I hope to see many of you there on Long Island, New York at this event.

Then following that is the event that I mentioned earlier, the Iron Sharpens Iron

Radio Pastor's Luncheon, which is going to be held Thursday October 26th from

11am to 2pm at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall in Carlisle,

Pennsylvania.

Our keynote speaker is Pastor Bill Shishko of Reformation Metro, New York and host of a visit to the Pastor's Study

and every man who attends this event is going to be leaving with a very heavy sack of brand new free

books.

If you would like to register for this free Pastor's Luncheon, send me an email to

chrisarnson at gmail dot com chrisarnson at gmail dot com and put Pastor's Luncheon in the subject line and

we will get you registered immediately.

And then coming up in November from the 17th through the 18th the Quakertown

Conference on Reform Theology is being held at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania.

The speakers include Kent Hughes, Peter Jones, Tom Nettles, Dennis Cahill, and Scott Oliphant.

The theme is For Still Our Ancient Foe, a line from the classic Reformation

hymn by Martin Luther, who we're talking about today, A Mighty Fortress.

And if you would like to register for that event, go to Alliancenet .org

Alliancenet .org Alliancenet .org Click on Events and then click on Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology.

And God willing, I will be there as well with an Iron Sharpens Iron exhibitors booth.

And then last but not least, from January 17th through the 20th, the G3

Conference returns to Atlanta, Georgia.

The theme is Knowing God, a Biblical Understanding of Discipleship.

The 17th is exclusively a Spanish -speaking edition of the conference, and the 18th through the 20th is exclusively an

English speaking edition of the conference, featuring Stephen Lawson, Vody Baucom,

Phil Johnson, Keith Getty, H .B. Charles Jr., Tim Challies, Josh Bice, James White, Tom

Askell, Anthony Mathenia, Michael Kruger, David Miller, Paul Tripp, Todd Friel, Derek Thomas,

Martha Peace, and Justin Peters.

If you'd like to register for the G3 Conference, go to G3conference .com and please greet me

at the Iron Sharpens Iron exhibitors booth if you attend.

And please tell all of these organizations if you contact them that are running these events

that you heard about those events from Chris Arnsen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And now, once again, I have to come to you with hat in hand and

rattling tin cup, asking for money.

It makes me very uncomfortable to do that, but the advertisers who keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air through their

hard -earned money have asked me for a long time before I broke down to make public appeals

for donations and new advertisers.

If you really want this program to remain on the air, then please send a check of any amount you can afford

by going to IronSharpensIronRadio .com, click on support, and then you'll see an address where you can mail a check of

any amount that you can afford made out to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Please never, ever siphon money out of your regular giving to your local church where you're a member, and hopefully you are a

member of a local church, otherwise you're living in disobedience.

But please never siphon money away from your giving to that church, and please never take food off of your family's dinner

table if you're struggling to make ends meet, because those two things are commands of God, providing for church and home.

Supporting my show is not a command of God, but if you are blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands,

then please consider using some of that extra money to help us remain on the air, if indeed you love this program

and do not want it to disappear from the airwaves.

If you'd like to advertise with us, we could surely use your advertising dollars, so as long as what you're advertising

does not militate against the theological position of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, please send me an email to

chrisarnson at gmail dot com, chrisarnson at gmail dot com, and put advertising in the

subject line, and we will try to work out an ad campaign according to your budget as soon as we can.

And well, now we have returned to our discussion with Chris Roseborough of Pirate Christian Radio on the Protestant

Reformation, why it was necessary, and why it's still needed.

And before we go into the Diet of Worms, I wanted to clarify something I said earlier.

I didn't mean to give the impression earlier in something I said

that there were no people that were gruesomely persecuted, tortured, and

martyred by the Church of Rome who were not famous scholars like Martin Luther, there

were men, women, and children martyred by the Church of Rome, but how do you think that that came

about primarily when on the one hand you had priests openly mocking the Mass, and then

you have also perhaps lesser known people who were even women and children being martyred by Rome.

Did that primarily come about during and after the Reformation, those martyrs, those thousands of

martyrs that, where the streets ran red with blood due to Rome's persecution

of Protestants and others?

At the hands of Rome are going to be after the

Reformation, although there are some notable martyrs prior to the Reformation.

Yep, Johann Hus, and you're going to note this,

is that the distinction you were making, the one that you're just clarifying, is that here you

have priests who are unbelievers, who are making a mockery of the Mass,

and Rome doesn't do anything to them.

Nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

And you'll note that, you know, that Rome selectively persecutes.

You know, if you're an unbelieving priest, but you're still saying the Mass like you're supposed to, and bringing in

revenue for Mother Church, you're not going to be persecuted.

But if you're questioning the power of the, and the claims to having

absolutes, you're claiming that the dogmas of Rome

are contrary to Scripture.

And you're questioning the system's primary dogmas that

are bringing in all of this revenue.

Now all of a sudden, that's a horse of a different color.

And those people who are out there publicly preaching and teaching

contrary to these, you know, the system itself, the power of the Pope himself, and the

whole money -making schema set up by

the thing that could get you killed.

And Luther came close to losing his life.

And pretty brave people to protect

Luther.

And there was a time when Luther literally was living in

exile, sconded by one of

his protectors.

And so Luther knew this very well.

The more popular Luther became, it became more difficult for Rome to actually move against

him.

And so he was one of these people that, they knew at some point, that had they taken

Luther's life and

salvation

by...

Yeah, it seems to me that Rome has always held a much, an infinitely

higher level importance to loyalty than to anything that you believe or do.

And since Luther was such a prominent figure that was starting to create serious

ripples globally, and people, you know, leaving the Church and so on,

that's probably the real reason that his life was at risk of being taken from him.

Am I right?

Yeah, that's correct.

Now, when he is standing trial, as it were, with his books

on a table in front of him that he was being commanded.

To renounce, take us through that experience that Luther had.

...the

diet of

worms.

It's

dangerous.

It's in the

Bible.

By the way, I happen to love kimchi.

But anyway...

...think on this,

pray on

this, and consider what it is that he was going to say.

And so, it's the second day that he

even kind of picks up

on this

or

whatever,

by

men...

Yeah, he wasn't just saying, I'm not going to disagree with these brilliant thoughts that I've developed.

He was saying, prove it to me from the Scriptures that I'm wrong.

Yeah, that's right.

And then they wouldn't even try.

And I heard from at least one scholar in a documentary that I saw, not

the one that we were just speaking about earlier, but I had heard that there is some

theory that some eyewitnesses slash earwitnesses, obviously, to the

speech, said that Martin Luther, after he concluded the speech, muttered under his

breath, Here I stand.

I don't know if that has any credence with you or not, but I've heard that that is a plausible

theory in regard to where that phrase came from.

So here...

Yeah,

that

documentary.

That we were talking about said he was the first rock star.

Of Europe in history.

Yeah, and

so...

Luther bobblehead.

Reverend Buzz Taylor has something to say.

Wasn't it also true that when he was making his defense that it wasn't this bold,

defiant person like, you know, duking it out with him, but he

realized the situation he was in and the whole thing was sort of practically under his breath because he knew.

I mean, it was like...

Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Yeah, I know exactly what you're saying.

Luther wasn't trying to be a heroic figure and at the Diet of Worms he

was quite shaken to his core.

He wasn't of the mindset of just defiantly putting his foot down.

That was really not it at all.

And what he said, he had to say quite carefully and deftly because he knew that his

neck was on the line.

So, yeah, I would tend to agree with his story in that he probably said it there, but it was under his breath like

saying, oh my goodness, here I stand.

I don't think I could do anything other than that.

You know?

Well, I hope that his kidnappers, quote -unquote, who were actually rescuing him, at least whispered in his ear early on

in the act, you know, we're here to rescue you.

Don't worry about this.

Otherwise, he might have had a heart attack.

I mean, pretty scary kind of a thing.

Well, we're going to go to our final break right now, so I don't want to cut you off in mid -sentence.

And after we wrap up some things, I'd like to take some of our listener questions.

We've got a number of them, actually.

If anybody else would like to get in line, do so right now so we don't run out of time before we have an opportunity to read

your question.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

God willing, we'll be right back with Chris Rosebro and the Protestant Reformation.

Chef Exclusive Catering is in South Central Pennsylvania.

Chef Exclusive's goal is to provide a dining experience that is sure to please any palate.

Chef Damian White of Chef Exclusive is a graduate of the renowned Johnson and Wales University with a degree in

Culinary Arts and Applied Science.

Chef Exclusive Catering's event center is newly designed with elegance and style and is available for

small office gatherings, bridal showers, engagement parties, and rehearsal dinners.

Critics and guests alike acknowledge Chef Exclusive's commitment to exceeding even the highest

expectations.

I know of their quality firsthand since Chef Exclusive catered by most recent Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

Pastor's Luncheon.

For details, call 717 -388 -3000.

That's 717 -388 -3000.

That's 717 -388 -3000.

Or visit chefexclusive .com.

That's chefexclusive .com.

That's chefexclusive .com.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to

present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars, a year -round Bible conference and retreat

center nestled on the Jersey Shore.

Harvey Cedars offers a wide range of accommodations to suit groups up to 400.

For generations, Christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at Harvey Cedars.

Each year, thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about God's Word.

An additional 9 ,000 come annually to Harvey Cedars as families, couples,

singles, men, women, pastors, seniors, and missionaries.

90 miles from New York City, 70 miles from Philly, and 95 miles from Wilmington,

and easily accessible, scores of notable Christian groups frequently plan conferences at

Harvey Cedars, like The Navigators, InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, Campus

Crusade, and the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals.

Find Harvey Cedars on Facebook or at hcbible .org

hcbible .org.

Call 609 -494 -5689 609

-494 -5689 609 -494 -5689.

Harvey Cedars, where Christ finds people and changes lives.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to a visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 pm Eastern Time on WLIE Radio.

Www .wlie540am .com www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the Pastor's Study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the Pastor's Study because everyone needs

a pastor.

Www .wlie540am .com.

One sure way all Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my

advertisers.

I know you all use batteries every day, so I'm urging you all from now on to exclusively

use www .BatteryDepot .com for all your battery needs.

Www .BatteryDepot .com they're changing the status quo, they're flipping the script, they're

sticking it to the man.

In other words, they'd like to change the battery industry for good by providing an extensive inventory

of top of the line batteries that are uniformly new, dependable, and affordable.

Ordering from BatteryDepot .com ensures you'll always get fresh out -of -the -box batteries

you can count on to work properly at competitive prices.

Whether you need batteries for cordless phones, cell phones, radios, PCs,

laptops, tablets, baby monitors, hearing aids, smoke detectors, credit card

readers, digital cameras, electronic cigarettes, GPS's, mp3 players,

watches, or nearly anything else you own that needs batteries.

Go to batterydepot .com.

Next day shipping available.

All products protected by 30 -day guarantees and six -month

warranties.

Call 866 -403 -3768.

That's 866 -403 -3768.

Or go to batterydepot .com.

That's batterydepot .com.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in for the last 90 minutes in the next half hour or so, we have been and will

continue interviewing Chris Roseborough of Pirate Christian Radio on the Protestant Reformation,

why it was necessary and why it's still needed.

Our email address, if you'd like to join us on the air of the question, is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

I would suggest that you send an email quickly because we are running out of time.

Chris, we've already discussed the Diet of Worms and we've discussed that now Luther

is safe and hiding and he is, this is, at this point where he starts translating

the Latin Bible into the German language, is.

It

not?

Yeah,

actually,

German

language

entered

in

exile

at

the

time.

So this

is.

Really where he starts to have the veil fall off of

his eyes, the scales, as it were, like the soul of Tarsus fall off of his eyes, and he starts to really.

Discover

the

gospel

while

translating

the Bible,

does he

not?

Well, he

was

a monk, he was an Augustinian monk.

Oh, so you would think that he actually knew the.

Gospel or embraced the authentic gospel when he nailed the 95 Theses to the.

Castle

church

door?

Yeah, but

it's

kind

of

like...

And

you

routinely

have

Roman.

Catholic apologists quoting Luther to show that he favored their

views more than Protestants realize, and I'm assuming that maybe not all of it, but a lot of those

citations are from the earlier Luther, because I have been, I think it's been very

aptly said that when somebody quotes Luther, you have to ask them, which Martin Luther was this?

Because of the fact that he was one of the first Reformers and it took decades to

shed a lot of those things that he.

Had ingrained

in him.

Yes,

that's

absolutely

somehow

put.

Have

a guy

who tries to make it look

like, really, you're

trying to...

Now, typically what they.

Cite are his prayers that reveal

the fact that Mariolatry was still a part of his life.

Of course, they wouldn't call it Mariolatry, but did.

Luther ever shed completely what we would call heretical Mariolatry?

No, it

doesn't

reach the

level of

idolatry,

though.

The

Reverend

Buzz

Taylor

has.

Something to say.

Well, as long as we're talking about which Luther wrote what, that brings into

question, I don't have a lot of Lutheran works in my library, but I do have the house

postals, and what is the other, the church postals.

Where would.

They fall

in line?

Okay,

so Luther's

postals,

kind of

fascinating,

because

some of

the

sermons that are

held up as models,

the idea that

there's a

hermeneutic

bringing on to the

street.

Amen.

Didn't he

even admit to

that

at the

Diet of Worms?

Yeah,

the famous

woodcut of him bending over

in front

of the

Pope.

Yeah,

and

of.

Course some of that stuff would not be appropriate for a children's coloring.

Book.

All

right,

we better get to some of our listener questions before we run out.

Of time.

Joey in Clifton, New Jersey says, I was recently in a course in which the professor

mentioned that post -Reformation Lutheranism, typified by Melanchthon,

Mueller, and Piper, held to total depravity and yet seemed to believe that God's grace

is resistible in some sense.

Can you please clarify this?

More specifically, can you please clarify where post -Reformation Lutheranism may differ from Martin Luther's

views on two points, specifically election, conditional or unconditional, and the scope

of the atonement, limited or not?

We.

Did touch on

this the last time you were

on, but if you

could read it.

Yeah, okay, so M of

1992,

you

can find

them

at

bookofconcord

.org, and of

limited

atonement.

And

of

course

Calvinists.

All believe that everyone in hell is there because they deserve to be, and they willingly

chose to rebel against God because they were not given hearts of flesh and

did not follow Christ in repentance and faith because they had not been given hearts of flesh, but

they are still culpable, as you said.

And the other issue is, we touched on last time, was Melanchthon,

after the death of Luther, trying to make some kind of a peace treaty to

accommodate Rome's view of the will, which certainly, his view seems to

be a departure from the bondage of the will that was a part of the great debate that Martin Luther had with.

Erasmus.

Yes,

theological

compromises,

which

is

why, between

making

compromises...

We have Susan in Scottsville, Kentucky.

This is really going to be applicable to our next interview with you, but it is, her question

is, why is it a Reformation still necessary?

Hasn't it already been accomplished?

What more would be done?

We

have

Josh

in

Aquabog,

New

York.

Does Pastor Roseboro believe Rome is a true.

Church with some false teachings, or a false church with some true teachings?

If the latter, why call ourselves Reformers when they are to be condemned and departed

from, not Reformed?

Yes,

there are

a

number

of people that

I

have

met

personally,

including my mother.

On her deathbed, who was Roman Catholic all of her life, and then before departing this earth,

embraced, or made it evident, I should say, that she truly believed in the finished

work of Christ as her only hope for salvation.

I don't know how long prior to her deathbed experience, and I'm talking about six weeks, not a few minutes,

but I don't know how long prior to that she had this understanding, but she had a

clearly biblical gospel, and she also renounced prayer to Mary and the Saints, which was

quite a remarkable evidence to me of her truly becoming regenerate, because that was

a preciously held tradition of hers her entire life, praying to Mary and the

Saints.

So she was trusting only in Christ, and she never said, I am no longer Roman

Catholic.

She never said, I am now a Protestant, or never formally converted to Protestantism in that sense,

but she was a Catholic who had the true gospel, and entered into eternity with Christ.

We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who said, could you please list,

at least in America, what you believe would be the biblically orthodox and therefore

safe.

Synods within Lutheranism, which to join?

The two I would point

to, there are

others

you engage in to arrive at

the

belief.

Now

I've heard that

the Wisconsin

Synod

is even more conservative than the Missouri

Synod, is

that

true?

Yeah, there

are many

good congregations there, and I'm really praying

that Wisconsin and...

Well,

we

are.

Going to have, God willing, Chris Roseborough return next Wednesday, the 27th of

September, so I hope you join us then.

Also, if you are Lutheran, you might especially want to tune in as well on October

4th, which is another Wednesday.

Brian Wolfmuller is going to be our guest on Iron Trip and Zion Radio,

and then on Thursday, November 9th, Matt Richard, I know who is a friend of Chris Roseborough,

he is going to be returning as our guest on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, and I want to make sure that you have all of the

important contact information for Kongsvinger Lutheran Church in Oslo, Minnesota,

where Chris Roseborough pastors, go to kongsvingerchurch .org, that's K -O -N -G -S,

V as in victory, I -N -G -E -R, church .org, kongsvingerchurch .org, and for Pirate Christian

Radio, just go to piratechristian .com, piratechristian .com, any other contact information you care.

To give?

No, that's perfect, yeah, you have piratechristian .com, kongsvingerchurch .org,.

That's how you find them.

Great, and I want to remind you, go to cvbbs .com, cvbbs .com, for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service,

for that half -price sale on all hardback commentaries, including the new

commentary on Revelation by Richard Phillips.

I want to thank you, Chris Roseborough, for being our guest today, I look forward to your return, I want to thank the Rev. Buzz Taylor for being my co -host, I

want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who wrote in questions, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives

that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.