February 4, 2021 Show with Dr. Tim Clarey on “Reaching Kids with Creation Science While They’re Very Young (in an Age of Fake Science Idolatry)”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister, George Norcross, in downtown

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Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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So please, I just thought I'd throw that in there during a time of the show when people are not typically fast forwarding through anything.

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But now, I would love to announce that I have a returning guest who I have loved to interview, and I'm sure

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I will love interviewing him again today. His name is Dr. Tim Clary. He received a

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Master of Science in Geology from the University of Wyoming, a Master of Science in Hydrogeology from Western Michigan University, and a

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PhD in Geology from Western Michigan University. He worked as an

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Exploration Geologist at Chevron USA from 1984 to 1992, developing oil drilling prospects and analyzing assets and lease purchases, and was full

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Professor of Geosciences Chair at Delta College in Michigan for 17 years before leaving in 2013 to join the science staff at the

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Institute for Creation Research, also known as ICR. He had earlier conducted research with ICR in its

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FAST program, F -A -S -T, and has published many papers on various aspects of the

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Rocky Mountains, and has authored two college laboratory books, and is the author of books on the subject of creation science, including

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Carved in Stone, Geological Evidence of the Worldwide Flood, Dinosaurs, Marvels of God's Creation, Big Plans for Henry, an illustrated children's book about dinosaurs, which we are going to be touching on today, and a contributor to The Guide to Dinosaurs and Creation Basics and Beyond.

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Today we are going to be addressing a very vital theme, a very timely theme, reaching kids with creation science while they are very young in an age of fake science idolatry, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Tim Clary.

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It's great to be back again, Chris. It's great to have you back, and for those of our listeners who have not yet heard you on this program or have not yet heard about you elsewhere, tell our listeners about ICR.

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Well, ICR stands for the Institute for Creation Research. It started about 50 years ago,

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I think now, in California by the late Henry Morris, and then he had colleagues like Dwayne Gish on there, some of the first scientists on the staff.

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But about 15 years ago, they moved to the Dallas, Texas area, and that's when I joined almost eight years ago now.

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We're a collection of scientists. I think currently we have seven full -time scientists who are everything from nuclear physicists to biologists to geneticists to geologists.

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We have other physicists and biologists that do different specialties, but we're kind of a think tank,

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I think, for creation science, and most of us are actively involved in some aspect of research in some way.

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I guess all of us are involved in aspects of my research. My research involves looking at the rock record across all the continents of the world, and I'm slowly working my way from continent to continent to show that it really was a global flood.

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Others, like our new CEO, Dr. Randy Galuza, he works on biological studies called

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CET, Continuous Environmental Tracking, where animals and things that God created, he created the internal capacity for animals to almost like sensors in your car to sense things and literally almost change their

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DNA and different switches going on and off because they sense certain things, so they're able to adapt to the environment. His argument is it's not nature causing these changes.

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There's no mysterious mother nature. It's all God -given internally, and these animals just react to that.

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They can do it very quickly, he's showing, and some of these within a generation or two. Rapid changes, again, they're built in by God, so that's his research, and he's got a lot of staff helping work on that.

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I'm working on my geology stuff, basically showing evidence of the flood, but we're all kind of working together on different aspects of things, and it's really glorifying

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God that there really was a creator, that Earth really is young. It's only, we think, around 6 ,000 years old, like the genealogies in the

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Bible imply, and they're quite explicit in that regard. We think the rock evidence and everything we look at seems to show

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God's word really is true. Amen. One of the reasons why you are such a valuable, or perhaps

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I should even say invaluable, asset to the whole field of creation science is that you are a geologist, an accredited geologist with a

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PhD, and a lot of experience in geology, even in the secular world, and that is the charge of not only secular scientists who reject the whole idea of an intelligent designer, but even our old

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Earth brethren who think that geology is the Achilles heel of young Earth creationists, and who sometimes, sadly, scoff at the idea that there can be valid, genuine, geological proof of a young Earth, and so on, and they will very often say, because young Earth folks don't have truly trained geologists, especially among their ranks, but you disprove that.

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Right, you know, when I worked for a living, actually, I kid around, I used to work for a living when I was with the oil company in the corporate world, and I was able to find as much oil as the next guy, but I also drilled my fair share of dry holes.

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I mean, the geology is the same if, say, the Earth is 6 ,000 years old, or if I always believed the

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Earth is only 6 ,000 years old, but the oil is there, I think only because it is young. Oil, we talked about in an earlier program, oil can't be that old, or it would break down by the bacteria in the ground.

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As deep as we've drilled, there's always bacteria, and so that oil can't last millions of years. There's a lot of things in geology that have been overlooked and ignored by the old

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Earth guys, you know, the dinosaur soft tissue, all these original proteins and collagens and blood vessels and cells, and they, some of my old

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Earth colleagues, you know, bless their hearts, they're just like, that's not important. They change their view, and they don't want to change their view.

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They want to go along with the consensus in geology that's been taught for the last 100 or so years that the

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Earth is billions of years old, and all these things took millions and millions of years. But every day

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I see evidence that it is young, even in geology. Again, oil is one of those things.

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Oil is, when you're putting oil in your car, gas in your car, you're putting in products from the flood, they can't be that old, or they would have disintegrated by now, they would have been decomposed by the bacteria.

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So there's a lot of evidence out there. I hesitate to say proof in geology, because you're always going back in time, but there's some really, really strong concrete evidence to show the

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Earth really is much younger than most say. Well, one thing immediately

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I want our listeners to pray for is for some reason, on occasion, your voice is garbled, and in the past that has sometimes been because there are too many files still existing on the computer that competes with the bandwidth or something.

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And believe me, I don't really know what I'm talking about. I'm technologically ignoramus. But I think that I am at least basically explaining what

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I've been told. So let's pray that Timothy's voice does not continue to get garbled while speaking.

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So far, it's been the minority of time. So hopefully that's not going to keep happening.

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I'm going to shut down my computer and see if that helps. Oh, that's good. That may help. Who knows?

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Well, this will lead us into the discussion today. The main theme, as I announced before, is reaching kids with creation science while they're very young, in an age of fake science idolatry.

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This is a day and age. I mean, I was born in 1962.

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So there was already a lot of fake science going on. I was enrolled as a child in a

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Catholic elementary school, parochial school. And even in our science class, we were taught by a secular teacher.

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It wasn't a nun or a monk or something, a brother. It was a secular teacher who told us anything that the nuns may tell you about Adam and Eve and Noah's Ark or anything like that.

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Just don't listen to them. It's all nonsense. It's fairy tales. We were evolved from apes.

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The Bible is filled with just pictures and allegories and stories.

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So what we're going to be learning in this class is real science. So this has been going on. I'm going to be 59, actually,

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February 14th. So this has been going on not only as long as I've been alive, but even long before I was born.

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This kind of fake science, didn't it really largely come from the 19th century, perhaps, with the higher criticism and so forth?

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Yeah, I believe so. I mean, a lot of it did show up about that same time. The geologist about maybe the beginning of the 19th century, the end of the 18th century,

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James Hutton came up with the idea of deep time. He developed the idea that everything we see is uniform and slow, slow erosion, slow deposition.

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So when you saw rock layers, those rock layers must have taken thousands, if not millions of years. And this is even before they had ways to age date rocks and try to verify and force those down our throats and insist that these are valid tests of the real rock's age, which as many of you listeners probably know, are based on a series of assumptions that can't be validated.

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And in fact, when we do know the age of most lava flows, we try to date them, they get numbers that are way out of whack by several orders of magnitude, if not many orders of magnitude.

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But unfortunately, it started about pretty much the whole 19th century. And then Darwin came along in 1859 with his book talking about evolution.

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So you had the two pillars, basically, that they hold to in the secular story of life just somehow evolved from non -life.

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But if you give it enough time, which the geologists at the time were trying to get rid of the idea of no flood, if you give it enough time, millions and millions of years, you know, it's possible this could happen.

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And so if you get rid of the deep time, it takes away any chance evolution has, even though I think even with billions of years, evolution has no chance to produce what we see today.

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Everything out there, every form of life we have, every object we have, I believe was, of course, spoken into existence by God in the creation week.

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But they don't see it that way. They have to come up with this fabricated story. And you mentioned that you were into Catholic school.

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Well, my wife taught at a Catholic school for many years, and she's the co -author of the book we're going to talk about today, you know,

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Big Plans for Henry. And by the way, I just want to quickly insert here, although I am not an ecumenist by any stretch of the imagination,

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I believe that the official dogma of the Church of Rome when it comes to the gospel is false.

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It is heretical, damning even. But I don't want to broad brush all

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Roman Catholics as if they are all Darwinian evolutionists.

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There are quite a number, although a minority, I believe, of Roman Catholics who truly believe in the biblical account.

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But even ironically, sadly, even the strident conservative

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Catholics among them very often are Darwinian. It's quite puzzling and baffling, even theistic evolutionists in the whole deal, which

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I find quite strange when it's coming from the conservative element. But yes, this book that you've written is just another tool, the one that you've written with your wife,

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Renee, Big Plans for Henry. It is an illustrated book for children. What are the age groups that is intended for this book?

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Well, we kind of look at about age three to seven. I mean, I think that the younger kids, you may have to read it to them, and the older kids can read it themselves.

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But we kind of made it a little bit for that age range, maybe around three to seven years old. I'm a little bit older than you.

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I was born in 1960, Chris. And so we wrote it for our grandkids. We're up to four now.

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And so we actually tried it on them and tried and true. It actually works. They will sit there and listen and look at the pictures because it's so well illustrated.

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And it's not that long. But one of the things my wife found out working at a Catholic school and other

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Christian schools is that there's no books out there for kids that don't say Millions of Years. When they talk about dinosaurs, they get her black felt marker out, her

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Sharpie, and cross out the Millions of Years. And so every book out there, pretty much everything we've seen.

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And so we said we approached Henry Morris III, who was CEO at the time, the late Henry Morris III, and said, should we do this children's book?

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We really feel this is something that we need, a project that ICR needs to have. And so ICR in the last couple of years has put out several different children's books.

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But this one's a little different than the others because it's actually a story you can read. It's not a series of just factual information, every page, every page, every page.

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This is a story you can read. It's not too long. It's short enough to keep the kids interested. But it really makes a good biblical point that God has a plan for everybody.

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Even the dinosaurs even had a plan for each, of course, every human. He has a plan for everybody.

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And we kind of make that point in the end. And there's some note to the parents at the end talking about the plan of salvation at the end of the story.

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Christ is our only hope. And God himself loves us so much that he not only takes care of animals, he also takes much more care of humans in order to remain special in his image.

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And so the idea that when you get done, it's not like a fairy tale or anything.

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It's a fictional story, but it's about real events, real events about the flood and about the ark. And this particular dinosaur gets led ultimately to become one of the two duck -billed dinosaurs on the ark, two of the kind of the duck -billed dinosaurs that would have been taken off of the ark.

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You know, probably a young dinosaur. And we talk about throughout the story, there's little boxes on the side where we talk about biblical truths and scientific truths to add a little more information there for maybe the adults reading it, the parents or the grandparents or the children as they get older, when they get to six and seven, they can read it themselves.

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They can read these little boxes that add a little bit to the story, a little background on some of the pages as you read through them.

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But you can read through the story in probably 10 minutes time at the most with the child.

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The pictures, they're really colorful, kind of almost cartoon pictures to go along with it.

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It really keeps their attention, I think. It's really well done. The artist we hired to do this did a really good job doing and making the dinosaurs look somewhat realistic, not too cartoonish, but still cartoonish enough to,

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I think, keep their interest. So we were quite pleased. We actually have a couple of follow -up stories we're hoping to get out.

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Maybe the Dinosaur Tale will still publish where Henry's older and he gets off the ark and then he went at the

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Tower of Babel maybe a couple hundred years down the line where he's an older dinosaur and where he's a grandparent then. And there's still things to teach about the

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Bible, these true stories about the Tower of Babel, the true stories about the flood. And these were real events.

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The story's fictional, the dinosaurs talking is a little fictional, but they're real events and God cares even about the dinosaurs and how much more he cares about us as humans, his special creation.

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Well, I'm glad that you informed our listeners that the dinosaurs talking is a fictional aspect of the book.

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I worry about that because people are like, well, how come you have dinosaurs talking? I'm like, well, to tell a story sometimes you gotta...

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There's a note to the parents in there that talks about this. This is a fictional story, but it's based on a true event that happened.

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It really was a global flood and it really was an ark and it really was a Noah. And this is just an example of...

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I meet so many people that don't know where dinosaurs fit in with Noah's Ark. Were they in the ark or not?

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God says he brought two of every kind in the ark. And so dinosaurs were two of those kinds. He created the beasts of the field or the things that creep on the ground.

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He doesn't really mention the word dinosaur because that word wasn't really invented until after the

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Bible was translated into English, actually a couple hundred years after the King James Version. So you don't really see the word, but you see dragons and you see things like behemoths and leviathan, which

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I believe may be types of dinosaurs in the book of Job. You hear about these after the flood interactions with humans.

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You see carvings about interactions with humans across Europe and Asia. And you see there's a lot of evidence.

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And of course, it's all ignored by the secular community who don't want to believe dinosaurs existed with humans.

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They don't want to believe the Flintstones are real. But I always tell people, Flintstones are probably the most accurate cartoon we've put out there dealing with dinosaurs.

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Living together at the same time. That would probably have been after the flood. But nonetheless, this is a story, again, my wife just got tired.

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She used to teach kindergarten and first grade. She got tired of having to cross out the millions of years in all these books when she was at a

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Christian school, Catholic and more of a non -Catholic Christian school as well.

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I guess a non -denominational one. And all the books all said the same thing. Unfortunately, the old earth stories have permeated through much of the church and many of church believers as well have become older because they just feel like, well, that's what science is saying.

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So I have to go along with them. But there's so much science that you're not being told about.

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And that's some of the research that we do at ICR is we're finding new research all the time, new evidence, and showing people that there really is this strong, what

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I call concrete evidence as close as you can get without going back in time to prove that the earth is young and yet that's suppressed by the secularist community.

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So this story, we just kind of told the story around this young dinosaur, just assuming the earth is young and there really was a flood and what could have, you know, might've happened if you're a young dinosaur trying to find your way and you get separated from your herd.

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And, you know, but God still takes care of this dinosaur and brings them to, you know, salvation on the ark.

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So he at least gets on the ark and survives as a representative of the kind. And this is going to be a valuable tool for parents to introduce their young children, very young children to creation science.

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And we're going to get into, when we come back from our first break, we're going to get into more why this is important, especially today in the 21st century.

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And parents, Christian parents need to be driving home these truths that the world hates, that the world mocks, that the world is going to be punishing people over in varying degrees of persecution.

26:35

I mean, it's just, it's interesting, even in many of the elections, especially presidential elections that I have witnessed for the past several decades, if it is discovered that a candidate who is a conservative is a creationist and denies

26:58

Darwinian evolution, the way that news reporters and talking heads anchor people on so -called news programs, which are really just propaganda programs, the way that they laugh openly in the media and mock as if these people must have severe brain damage for rejecting

27:19

Darwinian evolution. But we'll get into a lot of this when we come back from our first break. If you have a question of your own that you would like to ask

27:27

Tim Clary, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

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Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. We'll be right back with Tim Clary right after these messages.

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34:47

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

35:05

Christ Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

35:12

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

35:21

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net

35:27

that's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711 that's 631 -696 -5711.

35:42

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

35:58

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the

36:06

Historical Bible Society. The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts, and Bibles of historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years.

36:17

The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of scripture, to provide tools equipping believers and Christian apologetics with evidence for the

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Bible's reliability, and to introduce Reformation literature and Christian art to a broader audience.

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Since 2004, HBS has toured schools and churches throughout the Northeast United States, reaching thousands of believers and non -believers alike who are hungry for knowledge of the

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Bible. HBS's founder, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, is committed to sharing this collection along with an inspirational historical message that will captivate you and your church.

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Come journey through their website, historicalbiblesociety .org. The collection includes a complete 11th century

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Bible, an actual page of the Gutenberg Bible from 1455, the first book ever printed, the

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Geneva Bible, the 1611 King James Bible, and much, much more. Visit historicalbiblesociety .org

37:21

today. Thank you, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, for your faithful support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

37:31

And don't forget, folks, if you donate a minimum of $35 to the

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Historical Bible Society, you will receive a free 44 -page book that's 9 by 12 in dimension called

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The Genealogies. They include the genealogies of Jesus Christ, and it is a gorgeous book that is a perfect book to have as a coffee table book for an icebreaker when you have relatives and loved ones, friends over your home, especially if they are not believers, to have this out on the coffee table or somewhere in a very easy view of where you are gathered to have a good time with your friends and have them pick this up and start asking questions, because this also includes helpful facts as to why the genealogy of Jesus is extremely important.

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It proves that he is truly the fulfillment of the

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Hebrew Scriptures prophecies on the coming Messiah in the days of the

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Old Testament. So remember, if you want to get a beautiful copy of this, and by the way, the artwork from these genealogies are printed directly from a first edition 1611

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King James Bible, which is a part of the collection of the Historical Bible Society that they bring with them on their tours when they give public demonstrations and display their collection of rare Bibles and books of antiquity.

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And the artwork, as I said, is well taken, printed directly from a first edition 1611

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King James Bible, and it has the appearance of parchment paper. So it's really beautiful.

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Go to historicalbiblesociety .org, historicalbiblesociety .org, and you'll get all the information that you need on how to donate to them $35 or more to receive this 44 -page book.

39:49

We are now back with Dr. Tim Clary, and our subject today is

39:57

Reaching Kids with Creation Science While They're Very Young in an Age of Fake Science Idolatry.

40:04

We do have a listener question. Lou in Sharpsburg, Georgia has a question, and I have to, if you just be patient with me,

40:14

I have to enlarge Lou's email because the font is microscopic.

40:22

Okay. The question that Lou in Sharpsburg, Georgia says, asks,

40:29

Has it been proven or disproven that footprints of humans have been found alongside dinosaur footprints in the

40:37

Paluxy Riverbeds? Thanks. In fact, that came up, I believe, during one of our recent interviews.

40:44

I might even ask that myself when we were talking about your book for adults on dinosaurs.

40:52

But interestingly enough, this is probably primarily intended to be a book for adults on dinosaurs that we are, that I'm talking about right now.

41:01

The Dinosaurs, the Marvels of God's Creation. That's the title of it, isn't that? Well, Marvel of God's Design.

41:08

Oh, Marvel of God's Design. Right. Well, as I was saying to Tim before the show,

41:18

I gave a copy of that book to a child who was, it couldn't be more than six,

41:26

I think he may even be five, who is a dinosaur enthusiast, to put it very, very mildly.

41:34

And he was very excited to receive this book and rip the plastic wrapping off of it, opened it up and immediately from the skeletal photographs was pointing out which dinosaurs were represented by these skeletal remains.

41:52

And his mom sitting there in the diner where we were, who's getting baptized this

41:59

Sunday, she was somewhat skeptical that he was so accurate because he was so quickly declaring with enthusiasm what each of these dinosaurs were that were represented by skeletal remains in the photographs.

42:17

And when she took the book, he was absolutely right every single time. And she would even ask him, why do you know that these bones are from that dinosaur?

42:28

And he would go into an explanation on why he could recognize the shape of certain bones and so on.

42:34

But it just utterly amazed me because I was a dinosaur nut, I thought, maybe

42:41

I wasn't so much of a nut over dinosaurs when I was a kid, but I never had the knowledge that this kid has.

42:47

But anyway, that was a long way of saying that I asked the same question,

42:53

I think, during your last interview on dinosaurs, marvels of God's design.

42:59

And I'll ask it again, has it been proven or disproven that footprints of humans have been found alongside dinosaur footprints in the

43:08

Paluxy riverbeds? Well, I believe the short answer to that is no, we haven't proven or disproven it.

43:15

And there is reported footprints down there in the Paluxy riverbeds with dinosaurs.

43:20

I mean, you can drive down there just south of where we're at here in Dallas. It's about an hour, hour and a half drive down there.

43:27

And you can see some dinosaur footprints there, no doubt about it. But many of the dinosaur footprints like the purported human footprints erode away very quickly because it's a very soft limestone.

43:39

And so the river actually flows around and the rains erode them away very quickly.

43:45

My colleague here, he's retired now, the former president John Morris, picture

43:50

John Morris, went down there and did a study, I believe in the 80s. And he, you know, saw these what look like human footprints tracks.

43:59

And then he went back a decade or so later, and some of those human like footprint tracks turned out to be three -toed dinosaurs as they eroded deeper, you started to see the three toes.

44:09

So he kind of backed off and said, well, maybe, wait a minute, we better take another look at these and see.

44:15

And so we're kind of not sure. And so at ICR, you know, we're not really pushing these as proof of interaction of humans and dinosaurs.

44:25

I do believe humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time. In my book,

44:31

Carved in Stone, we talked about, I show that maybe humans were living at higher elevations of the dinosaurs based on the rocks and what's found in those rocks with the dinosaurs.

44:41

But it's possible that, you know, there was human interaction before the flood as well. And so it's entirely possible to find footprints of humans with dinosaurs.

44:50

But I didn't, oh, unfortunately, the ones done in Paluxy at this point, we're a little reluctant to say this is, you know, proof and valid that these really are based on the experience my colleague,

45:02

Dr. John Morris, had. And so, you know, it's kind of one of those things.

45:07

So the short answer was, no, we haven't proven or disproven it. The long answer was that big, long answer

45:13

I tried to explain to you that, you know, it's not quite science,

45:20

I guess, as we kind of back off a little bit. Maybe sometimes we back off too soon, too easily on things.

45:28

But, you know, to me as a geologist, I would need to see the footprints myself a little bit better to show that these are really human footprints.

45:37

And Dr. John thought they were, but then the ones he thought were human footprints turned out to be three -toed dinosaur prints.

45:45

After all, you're just kind of looking at the upper part of them. So he didn't see the claws.

45:51

But if you kind of cut a dinosaur foot off a little higher up and just see the upper part of the imprint, you wouldn't see the footprints.

45:59

And that's kind of what he thought these might have been. But there's so many other things that show that humans and dinosaurs were interacting after the flood.

46:08

Why don't you give us some of those examples? Well, there's the carving that we can see over in Cambodia that they found a couple decades ago.

46:17

We have a replica of that here at our Discovery Center. We have a museum called the Discovery Center here at our

46:23

Dallas campus. And you can see this whole wall on this temple in Cambodia from about the 12th century,

46:31

I believe, give or take a hundred years. It shows a really good carving of what looks like a stegosaurus. And I put that picture in my dinosaur marvels of God design book as well, and a few of the evidence.

46:41

Other people, other creationists have put together complete books like Vance Nelson that shows a tremendous amount of evidence around Europe and Asia.

46:50

Carvings and paintings and tapestries across Europe, across England, and other places that show dinosaurs even as back far as the

46:59

Egyptian times and times of Middle East and Nebuchadnezzar's time, things like that,

47:07

Mesopotamian. Squirrels, basically, if you roll them out, you can see the pictures of them, what looks just like dinosaurs with the legs coming straight down.

47:18

You see, no reptiles today have their legs coming straight down like dinosaurs, but yet all these renditions of them, including the stegosaurus -looking animal in the carving in Cambodia, they all have the legs coming straight down and they have the plate sticking up on its back just like a stegosaurus.

47:32

It's almost unmistakable that this is representing an animal similar to a stegosaurus or one of the subspecies of a stegosaur.

47:40

But yet the secular world just dismisses all this. These carvings that look just like long -necked sauropods in England and long -necked sauropods in an armor palette in Egypt, all these different things that look just like sauropods.

47:53

Again, the amazing thing scientifically is the legs come down from the body just the way Sir Richard Owen defined dinosaurs in 1841.

48:00

There's reptiles that walk direct. And all of these images, none of them show the legs sprawling like lizards today and turtles today and crocodiles today, where the legs go out to the side and down.

48:12

They show them standing erect. And so you've got to wonder, why would they draw them this way?

48:18

And the only thing you can see in these carvings, they were done well before we discovered dinosaurs and the bones of dinosaurs.

48:25

These were done centuries before in many cases, at least hundreds of years in some cases. To me, you add all this up and it's very compelling evidence.

48:35

And you can read through the text in the book of Joe, read about the behemoth, how the tail is like a cedar, and how it ate grass.

48:45

And we find, sure enough, in 2005 in India, they found fossilized dinosaur dung, coprolites, that showed dinosaurs found with the bones of these long -necked sauropod dinosaurs.

48:58

They found five species of grass in the dung. And so it's hard to fossilize grass, but when you have it kind of compressed in the dung, just like horses, when you can see their droppings, you can kind of see what they ate, well, they can see what the dinosaurs ate.

49:11

And they had to change the whole secular story because the secularists didn't believe there was any grass at the time the dinosaurs were alive, and so it didn't evolve until later.

49:21

And so they had to change some of their paintings where they've been showing T -Rexes running around with no grass, and there actually was grass.

49:28

But just because it's not fossilized, it didn't preserve well, and it doesn't mean it's there. So there's a lot of evidence of human and dinosaur interaction in the biblical accounts.

49:39

Even people like Marco Polo reportedly saw dragons in China. But you don't make fossils today.

49:47

Fossils need special conditions, like the flood, to make these millions and billions of fossils we see all over the earth.

49:53

And so when animals die today, and the animals, like the dinosaurs, did go extinct eventually after the flood, might have taken sometimes a thousand or a couple thousand years until just maybe a few hundred years ago.

50:04

When they finally did go extinct, of course, they didn't leave traces behind. Their bones rotted away like animals do.

50:11

And so when things die, they don't actually become a fossil. And so the lack of fossils doesn't prove that they didn't, but all the carvings and the writings and the tapestries, to me, is fairly compelling evidence that sure enough, there was a period after the flood where humans and dinosaurs did coexist, just like before the flood.

50:31

Although before the flood, there's so much destroyed, we just find the bones of these animals. Within those bones, of course, we're now finding original tissues and original proteins that shouldn't be there if they're really 66 plus million years old.

50:47

And so there's a problem with the age, the old dates of these bones as well, which there's been about a hundred papers now since 2005 that have found again and again and again, original proteins, original, you know, what we call soft tissues, original soft parts, still flexible blood vessels and things, and things you can stretch, almost like a rubber band.

51:09

Original pieces of even the T -Rex have been found over and over and over in many, many specimens.

51:18

It sounded like there was a dinosaur in the room with you. What was that? Occasionally there are people who like to show their muscle cars off,

51:27

I think, as they drive. I thought there was going to be a scene like we saw in Jurassic Park unfolding right before our very ears.

51:45

Well, thank you, Lou, in Sharpsburg, Georgia. Give us your full mailing address because you have won a free copy of the children's book that we mentioned.

51:56

This is the book, Big Plans for Henry, and I hope that you have a child or grandchild young enough in your family where you could read this book to him or her, or give this to someone that you love who does have children of the ages three to seven whom this would be a blessing to share it with.

52:23

We actually have to get to our midway break right now, folks. I hope you'd be patient with us.

52:29

It's the longer than normal break that we have in the middle of the show every day because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

52:35

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because they are required by the

52:41

FCC to localize Arnie and Sharpen's Iron Radio to Lake City, Florida, geographically.

52:49

While they do that by airing their own public service announcements and other local announcements, we simultaneously air our commercials that are heard globally.

53:00

As I said earlier in the very beginning of the show today, if you're listening to this on the recording,

53:05

I'm asking you please don't fast forward through all the commercials because we depend upon our advertisers sticking around in order for us to exist.

53:16

If the vast majority of our listeners over and over and over again always fast forward through the commercials, they're never going to respond to them, and our advertisers are going to abandon ship, and that will mean that we will go off the air because we depend upon the advertisers to exist because of the finances that come through them.

53:36

So please write down as much of the information as possible for as many of the ads as possible so that you can more frequently and more successfully patronize our advertisers.

53:47

When you can't patronize them, at least reach out to them if you love this show and thank them for sponsoring the show through an email, phone call, or whatever information they provide.

54:01

Also use this time to write down questions for our guest today,

54:06

Tim Clary, and send them to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

54:11

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Tim Clary after these messages. Here's what

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Gary DeMar, President of American Vision, had to say about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio recently.

54:24

Good to be back, Chris. I always enjoy our time. You, I have to tell you, one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for 30, more than 30 years.

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Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

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We're in good, we're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air so I don't have to brag about myself.

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Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, airing live Monday through Friday, 4 to 6 p .m.

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Eastern Time at ironsharpensironradio .com. Linbrook Baptist Church on 225

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Earl Avenue in Linbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century. Our church is far more than a

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It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

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We're a diverse family of all ages, enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play, and together.

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Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.

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Call Linbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402, or visit linbrookbaptist .org.

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That's linbrookbaptist .org. We are excited to announce another new member of the

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Greetings in the matchless name of our Lord Jesus Christ. My name is Banu Gadi. I'm a pharmacist in New York, which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through.

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In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this,

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I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made, and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well.

57:22

He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness, and the beauty in what

57:27

God has designed, and he has erupted into praise. In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust

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God's design, and once we do, there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him.

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When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to address this illness, which can be very serious.

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Such is the beauty of his design. Knowing that how can we not erupt in praise to our great

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God like the psalmist did. May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.

58:07

Thank you. Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,

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Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus. We are rural and urban, and we are always about the message of Jesus.

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Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following Christ.

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Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959. We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world.

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Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future. Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

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For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333.

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That's 631 -385 -8333. Or visit liyfc .org.

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That's liyfc .org. Chris Arnsen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new website with an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a

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01:00:52

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new beautiful facilities in Corham, Long Island, New York.

01:01:14

I've had the privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my

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New York debates. I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the

01:01:33

Holy Scriptures, and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.

01:01:39

I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder,

01:01:45

Pastor Christopher McDowell. For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

01:01:52

That's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711.

01:01:59

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

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It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, New York, and the

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Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?

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Hi, this is John Samson, Pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the

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I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

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I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

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I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com,

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01:12:54

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01:16:03

I'm sorry, I think I said Coconut Beach. Coconut Creek, Florida. I'll be sending you that information and it's a reformed

01:16:10

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01:16:24

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01:16:41

So, please send me another email if you are in that category of needing a church and I have not responded to you.

01:16:47

chrisarnson at gmail .com, I need a church goes in the subject line. That's also the email address where you could send in a question to Dr.

01:16:54

Tim Clary and we are discussing a very vital subject matter especially in the 21st century and that is reaching kids with creation science while they are very young in an age of fake science idolatry.

01:17:12

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least. You're sitting in a state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside the

01:17:21

USA. Dr. Clary, this seems to be a key area if I'm not mistaken and you could give me your own feedback but this whole area of science especially during the coronavirus pandemic, it's somewhat disturbing and at the same time it can be amusing.

01:17:42

I don't know how amusing it should be but you can't help sometimes but laugh but you have people who were only months ago who are considered experts in the field of immunology and all matters of health related issues in the scientific realm who months ago were saying don't wear a mask, it's a waste of time, it's even harmful for you to keep breathing in the same air and germs from your own mouth and lungs and nose.

01:18:16

It's absolutely unnecessary and now these same people are saying you must wear a mask, in fact wear two or three and you have all kinds of very harmful things, people's lives being ruined by their careers ending because of ridiculous mandates of shutting down these businesses, people whose careers, livelihoods and dreams, perhaps even their family businesses that have existed for centuries and handed down, going out of business all because of this hysteria and yet they are the ones, these people, not only the scientists or so -called who are either terrified of losing their careers or just so enamored with getting the attention of leftists in places of authority that they knowingly lie about science.

01:19:13

They're the ones that are calling us morons and that we have the fake science but that's just a little slice of this whole hysteria that has been caused by fake science and a lot of what the left stands for includes science that defies crucial, critical, biblical facts.

01:19:40

You have scientists or you have doctors and psychologists and psychiatrists, people involved in mental health issues saying that a man who believes he is a woman, wants to be a woman, is a woman.

01:19:57

It doesn't matter what kind of genitalia or any other biological factors are involved.

01:20:03

That person is a woman and vice versa. If the woman wants to be a man, feels like a man, we should treat them as if they are men and in fact little children.

01:20:17

If a little child says, if the little child is a boy, mommy I'm a little girl,

01:20:22

I really want to be a little girl, I want to start wearing dresses, you have the nightmarish and satanic scenarios today actually taking place with the wholehearted and enthusiastic and gleeful support of our current president

01:20:38

Joe Biden and his vice president Kamala Harris. These children are getting surgery and hormone treatments to have their so -called genders change, which we know cannot actually happen.

01:20:53

You're just mutilating, sexually mutilating children. Isn't this a very important area, this whole issue of creation science and science that the

01:21:06

Bible would support and back up, especially in our age, our day and age.

01:21:12

This is a very important subject, even much more important than a lot of our listeners might even imagine it is, is it not?

01:21:19

Yes it is. I think that unfortunately the definition of science is being blurred, what is science and what isn't, particularly with the politicians like my governor of my home state of Michigan gets up there and throws the word science out there like so many other politicians.

01:21:35

They're just using that word to push more of a political agenda than they are actually following science.

01:21:41

The problem with the whole COVID -19 issue is they, you know, we hear all these inconsistencies all the time, wear the mask, don't wear the mask, wear the mask, don't wear the mask.

01:21:50

Well, part of the problem was they didn't know what to do. You know, the scientists were trying to deal with this, rightfully so, weren't sure what to do, you know, how to counteract it, how to do this.

01:22:02

And unfortunately it's become so blurred, just like they're blurring the, you know, part of the left agenda to blur the, you know, the sexual orientation of young children like you were talking about.

01:22:14

They try to blur everything and say, well, we have the microphone, so therefore we can deem what science is.

01:22:20

But that's not how it should work. Science, you know, should be independent of political parties.

01:22:26

Science, you know, if you really were doing this correctly, you wouldn't be paying hospitals money to say so -and -so died from COVID.

01:22:33

So, you know, we don't know what to believe. Are these numbers inflated? Are they really people, a number of people that died from COVID or not?

01:22:42

And, you know, there's things like, okay, where's the flu? When they say the flu's not here this year because we're wearing masks and everybody's using hand sanitizer.

01:22:50

Well, if we're wearing masks and we're wearing hand sanitizer and we're not passing on the flu, why are we still passing on COVID? And so there's always inconsistencies in the story.

01:22:58

And unfortunately, they don't want to know that there's truth in God's word. There's truth of, you know, there's male and female.

01:23:05

God made each kind, male and female. There's no changing, you know, there's animals out there like lions, tigers, and bears.

01:23:13

They're not identifying as a male or female if they're genitalia, male or female, how they're born, that's how they are.

01:23:20

And it's only the humans that are messing up this blur and the whole definition of science, I believe it.

01:23:26

And unfortunately, it's taken a life of its own in the political realm to try to, you know, for lack of a better word, control the population and to get us to, you know, they originally told us this 21 days of, you know, quarantine will be over and then, you know, they kept changing the numbers, changing the numbers.

01:23:44

So I think a lot of people out there, and rightfully so, are starting to distrust the science that's being put forth.

01:23:51

But what they're putting forth is not really a real science. Many of the secular journals are now publishing things that are, in my opinion, less and less scientific every year.

01:24:01

But they're getting away with it because they have the majority behind them. They can say almost anything they want to say, just like in this whole

01:24:08

COVID thing, which is an awful disease, there's no doubt about it. You know, hundreds of thousands of United States have died from this disease.

01:24:16

And but there's, people still wonder, you know, why the numbers correct? Is this really the number of people that died?

01:24:22

Because they've, you know, there's money behind some of this, unfortunately, in terms of, from my understanding, hospitals are paid more money if someone dies of COVID versus someone with a disease, that type of thing.

01:24:36

I don't know how true that is or not. Again, you hear so many things. But all I know is

01:24:41

God's Word is true. And there is male, there is female. In the human species, just like every other kind that God created.

01:24:50

But unfortunately, science out there is really getting a hit, I think. A lot of people are doubting discoveries of science, even the secular world, because it's being thrown around as, well, science says this, science says that.

01:25:03

Just because they use the word in a sentence, they try to sound authoritative. And unfortunately, they have the majority in many cases behind them.

01:25:14

But it doesn't mean that that is true science, by any sense of the word, by any definition.

01:25:21

So I try to stay out of the politics as much as possible. You know, I just try to, I try to stick to my science and show, you know, that there really was a flood, mapping out these rocks across the world.

01:25:32

And a little shout out to one of your advertisers, World Magazine, they actually chose my Carved in Stone book to be one of the honorable mentions science book of the year for 2020.

01:25:41

So I'm glad to hear one of your advertisers was World Magazine, because they just appreciated my

01:25:47

Carved in Stone book that came out last year. Well, congratulations. Well, thank you. That was quite a surprise to me that, you know, because I'm, you know,

01:25:57

I just do what I can. And I don't feel like I'm, you know, I just glad that book came together by God's hand,

01:26:02

I think, through me. I think God helped pull that book together, in terms of my thoughts and trying to get things on paper to ultimately become that book.

01:26:12

And I think all my books are the same way. I try to show, this is what the science shows. This is where we're speculating.

01:26:18

You know, I try to make it clear. And unfortunately, that's, I think the biggest problem out there with the whole COVID thing is nobody knows what's going on.

01:26:25

And the real scientists working on this are trying to figure out how to contain it, how to control it, how to come up with a vaccine.

01:26:33

And, you know, it's been a struggle because there's so much misinformation, disinformation, whatever you want to call it, being spread about it, all that.

01:26:41

Like you say, wear a mask, don't wear a mask, wear a mask, don't wear a mask. You know, and why is the mask work on the flu and not

01:26:48

COVID and vice versa? You know, the elephant in the room and all these conversations is, okay, if it's working preventing flu, why isn't it working preventing

01:26:57

COVID? Is it that much more contagious? I, you know, say, I don't know. There's a lot of unknowns and nobody seems to know.

01:27:06

And they're trying to figure it out. I think that people doing good science are trying to figure it out. But unfortunately, it's been used as a political weapon or whatever you want to call it, part of the political agenda.

01:27:19

Even probably, I think, helped to decide the presidential election in the last go around.

01:27:25

And so it's a mess. And this is one of the reasons why getting in, reaching the minds of children, very young, it's very important because they are going to be lied to in the

01:27:44

TV programs they watch. Even the TV programs that are oriented for very young children, they're starting to teach a pro -homosexual agenda, even to very, very young children.

01:28:00

They are, they've always taught to very young children, the Darwinian evolutionist understanding of something that is so extremely popular amongst children as it was with me, and still is with me, dinosaurs and animals that are called prehistoric, like the woolly mammoths and the saber -toothed tigers and all those animals.

01:28:29

I mean, I was, I was and still very fascinated by the whole area. But children typically are, and children are typically fascinated by science in general.

01:28:41

And unfortunately, Bill Nye, the science guy, probably has popularity because of that.

01:28:49

Well, not even probably, he does have popularity because of that, and he's a liar. He's not a scientist, and he's also a liar and a hater of biblical

01:28:58

Christianity and of creation science. I mean, an absolute hater of it.

01:29:04

He wants evangelical Christians who have biblical understandings of the origins of the earth and who hold to creationist views, he wants them banned from school boards.

01:29:17

I heard him say it with his own lips on television. But we need to begin reaching the children very young, as you are doing, as well as the old and everybody in between.

01:29:31

That's exactly it. That's why my wife, she really wanted to write a book, and hopefully we have a couple more coming out in the next couple of years on this same series.

01:29:43

But she saw it in the schools. I mean, every book she picked up, whether it was a

01:29:48

Christian school or she was at a public school when she was teaching, all talked about the millions of years. I mean, the indoctrination of the millions of years started so young.

01:29:57

I mean, there's the stories of Darwinian evolution started so young. And, you know, we need to start putting some truths in there.

01:30:03

What truths? What's the truth of the Bible? And show how well they match. And show these students and these kids growing up at a very young age when they're really into dinosaurs, as you and I were.

01:30:15

You know, seven years old, I saw some studies, seven years is when people really peak in there. Everybody is just a big dinosaur fanatic.

01:30:22

But we're losing those kids already because the books that they're reading that three and four and five and six years old are being read to are already talking about evolution.

01:30:29

How this dinosaur was so many millions of years old, and this dinosaur is so many millions of years old. And dinosaurs evolved from, you know, crocodiles or whatever they said.

01:30:38

They don't even know where they're supposed to have come from exactly. And they're also teaching the dinosaurs are feathered. They're showing pictures of feathered dinosaurs.

01:30:45

And there's really no evidence that dinosaurs had feathers. I know some creation paleontologists have kind of gone off on that bandwagon, but there's really no evidence of real dinosaurs having feathers of any sort.

01:30:57

There's feathered birds that are extinct. And I think sometimes they're using those as so -called feathered dinosaurs, but they're really those are birds.

01:31:06

And the anatomy matches more closely with birds. We talked about this, I think, in a previous show. But unfortunately, even creation scientists get caught up in the hype.

01:31:16

And there's some of the secular models that are being put forth and going, well, why couldn't dinosaurs

01:31:21

God have created dinosaurs with feathers? Well, he could have. But I don't believe he did. I believe the dinosaurs, every skin imprint

01:31:27

I've ever seen, even on T -Rexes, they always show scaly skin, just like crocodiles or reptiles we see today.

01:31:36

And in fact, 2017, they published a paper from this that T -Rexes didn't have feathers.

01:31:42

And all the rest of them did. It's kind of that silly. They just have these ideas, and they just push them on people.

01:31:49

And they start at a young age. And so organizations like ICR, our sister organization

01:31:55

AIG and CMI, and some of the smaller organizations and Christian book publishers, there are younger

01:32:01

Christian book publishers like Masterbooks, they'll put out information. But there's very few children's books.

01:32:07

And so we really want to get this Big Plans for Henry book out there to show that there's a little story that talks about a little bit about the reality of the flood and reality of the arc, but also shows some good science in there as well.

01:32:22

You can study dinosaurs. You just have to believe the hype that they're millions of years old.

01:32:28

They're real. And they're really fun, and they're fascinating. They're as big as the bones are.

01:32:34

And like I mentioned, and you as well, everybody gets excited about dinosaurs at some point. Just unfortunately, by the time they get past that point, they've already, most people have bought into the millions of years.

01:32:45

And so these are the kind of books and information we're trying to get out there to show people. There's real science, you know, empirical science, because it's observable again and again and again, that shows these dinosaurs really are not that old.

01:32:58

When you find these 100 or so now secular papers that have been published finding original tissues, original protein, blood vessels, and after you say cells and all these things in these bones, and there's no way for the secular science to explain it.

01:33:12

Other than well, we don't know how they get there, how they survived all these years, but they must have because we know they're millions of years old.

01:33:19

Well, the real science shows they're not millions of years old. I want people to think, and I think the world today, the way they throw the word science around, they don't want people to think.

01:33:30

They just want you to accept what you're being told, accept what the experts are telling you. And I want people to think even from a young age, think things through.

01:33:39

Does this make sense? Does this make sense? That was my whole story about the flu, how the masks are preventing the flu, and the washing of our hands are preventing the flu, yet COVID's still flaring all over the country.

01:33:50

To me, that's just baffling. It doesn't make sense to me. I don't know.

01:33:56

I need to study on that because I just don't understand how that can be. And so there's, you know, that's what makes a scientist is you need to think things through, ask questions.

01:34:05

But unfortunately, we're losing so many children that are already buying into the stories that are being taught because they're good at what they do.

01:34:13

The secular story of good. They're hitting people up at their youngest ages as soon as you can open a book. They're throwing out the millions of years.

01:34:21

Every movie you watch in Jurassic Park, Jurassic World, they're throwing the millions of years. And so it's, you know, you've got to constantly be on guard.

01:34:28

And you've got to be teaching your children if you see these movies with them. You've got to teach them, okay, this is just a story.

01:34:34

They really aren't that old. They just say that. And so you've got to make sure that you kind of critically assess everything you see or read or watch.

01:34:45

And so this, you know, this book, Big Plans for Henry is just the start of things that I hope will be more by other people as well to really give some choice for the people that want to show the truth of God's word that the earth really is young.

01:34:58

And it really is real science to back it up. Well, we have an anonymous listener who says,

01:35:11

Hello, Chris and Dr. Clary. I was recently at a conference in Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania, where Chris Arnzen was in attendance, manning an exhibitors booth for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:35:25

I witnessed an absolutely fantastic lecture by Vodie Baucom on the dangers that we face as not only a nation, but globally, from all kinds of heretical and crazy ideas that are coming from the woke movement.

01:35:48

One of the things that Vodie Baucom said was that he is a strong believer in classical

01:35:55

Christian education. And he actually teaches his children

01:36:00

Darwinian evolution, and will have them read the origin of the species, not because he agrees with it and wants them to believe in what

01:36:10

Darwin taught, but he wants to know what the enemy thinks so that they will be capable of speaking with those that believe in these falsehoods, and will be more capable of refuting them in intelligent conversation.

01:36:27

Would you agree with Vodie Baucom's approach to things? I'm remaining anonymous, because I have friends involved in the education field who are opposed to classical education, both on the right and left.

01:36:42

Well, I am actually, I agree with him. You've got to teach both sides.

01:36:48

Because if you just teach, you know, the biblical worldview of science to your child, teaching them just everything's young earth, the evidence for the young earth, they're going to go to college.

01:36:58

They're going to go off somewhere. They're going to hear all this other information that they never heard about, never had a chance to think things through.

01:37:06

And they never, you know, it's kind of to them, it's like, oh, this is all new. And this is why so many of our church -going youth go off to college, and they become evolutionists, because sometimes they never heard this.

01:37:19

You need to kind of share both sides of the worldviews, I guess. You really need to teach what they're going to be up against.

01:37:28

And again, that's where we want our children to be able to think, critically assess what makes the most sense.

01:37:34

But you've got to teach both, I think, or introduce both at some point, before they go off on their own, or we're going to lose a lot of them.

01:37:42

And that's unfortunately what's happening today, is many children go off, and they hear about evolution, and they really maybe weren't as well -grounded in the scientific evidence of the young earth.

01:37:52

And that's why we encourage people to take, like, books like Creation Basics and Beyond with them to college, or send those off when you go off to even high school, if you're going to a public high school.

01:38:01

All the scientists that I see are, all seven of us, all went to secular public schools, and heard all the evolution through our, you know, master's training, through our

01:38:10

PhD training, through our undergraduate training. But myself and many others here will testify that we got through it because we were reading books like the

01:38:18

Genesis Flood by Whitcomb and Morris, or we were reading, you know, books by, in my case,

01:38:24

I got to hear Dwayne Gish speak a couple times, talking about his book, The Fossil, Evolution of the Fossil, say, no, you know, the fossils don't support that.

01:38:31

And so we're able to keep our minds kind of straightened away with some of the evidence to show the earth is young, the evidence that God created animals, they didn't evolve.

01:38:40

And if you kind of give them both sides, I think people will see the truth in that. But if you don't tell them about the evolutionary side of it, they're going to hear about it sooner or later.

01:38:49

They're going to see it in all the media, they're going to see it in their classes in college, and it sounds very convincing.

01:38:55

Because the professors, you know, I heard it all myself, and many of my colleagues heard it all as well. Very convincing arguments that the earth is, you know, billions of years old, and all these things took place millions of years ago.

01:39:08

So if you don't know, if you're not grounded in the truth and the science that supports the young side, you know, those dudes are going to, many of them are going to fall away.

01:39:16

Or they'll become at least old earth believers. And they'll accept the secular tales of millions of billions of years.

01:39:23

So you really do need to teach both. And I think that that's a good approach. I hate to say teach evolution to your kids, but you need to teach them what they're going to hear.

01:39:34

So they know how to counteract that, or at least the evidence that shows that that isn't really true.

01:39:40

Yeah, they're going to, if you don't teach them something about this, when they get older, and their professors or their employers or their colleagues or their friends begin to mock people who hold to a young earth into creationist understanding of things, they're going to be mocking us as morons.

01:40:06

They need to know that we did not hide this information from them.

01:40:12

They may think that we were intentionally hiding something that we believe is credible or believable, etc, etc.

01:40:21

Right. I can tell you, you don't need to, you don't need to just accept, you know, the Word of God and just ignore all the science and say, well, that's all bad, because eventually those kids are going to hear that.

01:40:32

And they're going to be like, well, this is what science says. You need to teach them, you know, sound creation science, and then also teach them what the world is going to tell them.

01:40:41

So basically, you got to go through, here's what the secular world says. This is their model. This is their story that they made up to push the

01:40:48

Bible out of the picture. But this is what they're going to tell you is science. And then what you've learned is not science. But yet there is plenty, you know, more and more every year, more science to support that the

01:40:59

Bible really is true as it's written, that it isn't just the allegories, it isn't just stories.

01:41:05

And unfortunately, many churches out there, you know, like you mentioned, there are some Catholics that hold to the young earth.

01:41:12

There's a group, shout out to Hugh Miller and his group, the

01:41:17

Colby Center, I believe it is, that, you know, they use a lot of ICR's in their publications showing that they're too young.

01:41:23

But many of the Catholics, you know, my wife taught at a Catholic school, they kind of scoffed at her for believing that Jonah was real, and, you know, there really was a global flood, and there was an arc.

01:41:34

And, you know, they kind of just look at those as just stories that, you know, teaches a lesson, but not to be taken literally.

01:41:40

But my wife's like, no, these are real. You know, these events really happened. But there's a group, you know, like you said, that there are, in every denomination,

01:41:49

I think, there's people that are older than young earth, and the Catholics included. But, you know, she's seen that scoffing even in a

01:41:57

Christian school. But, you know, that's what we got to prepare our students for.

01:42:02

That's what we got to prepare our grandkids for. We got to show them that there's truth to God's word, that real science supports the

01:42:09

Bible, a young earth, a created earth, a real Adam and Eve, that these animals really did come to the ark.

01:42:16

There really were dinosaurs and all these thousands upon thousands of kinds of animals.

01:42:22

Not every species, just the general kinds of each animal represent on the ark. And they got off the ark, and many of them went extinct after that, including the dinosaurs in the, you know, 4 ,400 or so years since the flood actually occurred.

01:42:36

And, you know, a lot of that was because the pre -flood world was so different, I think, from the post -flood world, that the, you know, animals couldn't grow fast enough, couldn't reproduce fast enough.

01:42:46

And eventually, you know, the climate wasn't as conducive as God's original created world.

01:42:52

And so things changed so much that a lot of animals and species types did go extinct.

01:42:58

And unfortunately, there's some that go extinct every year. You know, it just depends on what you want to call a species.

01:43:06

But, you know, it's a sin -filled world, and the world is groaning, you know, for Christ's return.

01:43:12

And it's, you know, it's under the power of that sin, that Adam and Eve sin that destroyed all, you know, the world included.

01:43:21

Not just the, you know, the death of Adam and Eve and all of us, death and sin, but yet we can be made alive again through the shed blood of Christ.

01:43:31

We have that hope of salvation. And so we as humans can get that salvation by just accepting and believing in Christ and His Word and what

01:43:41

He did for us, and accepting Him as our Lord and Savior. That's the beauty of it all.

01:43:47

You can read through the Old Testament, and you can see that the tapestry is laid out, that there was at first judgment with the flood and the ark, that people had to just get on the ark, and they were saved.

01:43:57

And only eight people did. And today we have Christ, who's that open door. He's opened the door of salvation.

01:44:03

We just have to walk through and believe that He did what He said He did, that He died for us because He loves us that much, even though we are sinners, and we're sinful because of Adam and Eve's first sin.

01:44:16

We're all sinners, and we've all sinned. But yet He provides that perfect salvation to make us righteous again in God's eyes through His shed blood.

01:44:24

We just have to believe. Amen. We have to give our final break right now. By the way, to my anonymous listener, please give me, obviously privately through an email, your full name and your mailing address, because you have won a free copy of the children's book on dinosaurs that our guest has written.

01:44:48

And the name of that book is Big Plans for Henry.

01:44:56

And you'll get that in the mail from our friends at cvbbs .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com,

01:45:04

because of your question, and if you give us your mailing address. And by the way, just a little reminder to folks.

01:45:12

I know there may be more to the reason that that listener chose to remain anonymous.

01:45:18

Just because you have friends who disagree with you shouldn't compel you to necessarily automatically remain anonymous.

01:45:25

We should be able to be open with our friends about our true beliefs that we strongly hold to, even if it gives a little healthy conflict to the conversation or to the relationship.

01:45:40

But that's just a note that you may have had more reasons than just the fact that you have friends who disagree with you.

01:45:49

But if anybody wants to join us with a question of your own before we run out of time in our last segment, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:45:58

chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:46:09

USA. And please try to only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

01:46:16

Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors. Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine

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Since 2004, HBS has toured schools and churches throughout the Northeast United States, reaching thousands of believers and non -believers alike who are hungry for knowledge of the

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If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

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Such is the beauty of his design. Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great

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God like the psalmist did? May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.

01:57:30

Thank you. that really occurred.

01:58:01

And the book, Big Plans for Henry, is kind of one of those beginning books where you can read through and learn a little bit about science, about some of the different dinosaurs that are introduced in that, you know, some of the real scientific evidence about them, learn that they were real, just as real as the ark was real, just as real as the flood was real.

01:58:20

And so there's scientific truths in there, and there's biblical truths in there, mixed through a kind of a story that young children can understand and relate to, and also show that God loves them, that he has a plan for each and every one of them.

01:58:33

That was from the Jeremiah 29, 11 verse that we really wanted to impress upon that God has a plan for everyone.

01:58:40

And sometimes we may take a wrong turn. Like I, you know, personally, I can tell you a story about my own sinful nature.

01:58:47

But God brings us back just like in a GPS. So he'll recalculate and bring you back to where he wants you to be if you just obey and listen to him.

01:58:57

But if we don't have these books to, you know, to kind of, and things to teach our children with at a young enough age, we're going to lose them sooner than later.

01:59:07

Yes. I want to make sure that our listeners have your website. It's icr .org, icr .org,

01:59:15

which is the abbreviation for the Institute for Creation Research.

01:59:21

icr .org, you can find out not only how to purchase Big Plans for Henry, the children's book, but there is a wealth of information and products and resources that are for adults as well, primarily for adults.

01:59:34

Well, I want to thank you so much, Dr. Clary. I look forward to you returning to our program. I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write in questions.

01:59:44

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater

01:59:49

Savior than you are a sinner. You're welcome, Chris, and thank you very much.