April 16, 2021 Show with Timoteo Ogatis on “The Unique Challenges of Planting Churches in the Philippines”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions and now here's your host

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Friday on this 16th day of April 2021.

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I'm thrilled to have on the program today for the very first time to discuss a subject that we have not focused on for an entire program before today.

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We have Tomateo Ogates, a church planter and pastor of Gray Slice Church in Quezon City, Philippines and director of Southeast Asia for Anchored in Truth Ministries and we're going to be addressing the topic the unique challenges of planting churches in the

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Philippines and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastor Tomateo Ogates.

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Thank you very much Chris for having me in your program. It is an honor to share what the

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Lord is doing here in the Philippines as well as in Southeast Asia. Praise God and we had a little mishap yesterday.

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Pastor Tomateo called in yesterday to do the program because in reality and in the

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Philippines it is Saturday April the 17th right now so therefore yesterday in the

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Philippines it was Friday the 16th so we had the days mixed up but thank

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God we straightened that out and you were able to come on today. Why don't you tell our listeners something about Gray Slice Church of Quezon City, Philippines.

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Well Gray Slice Church uh is a growing church here in Quezon City uh not only in terms of number but more so in the in in in uh in matters of spirit of spiritual things and we thank

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God because uh uh God's grace has been so powerful in the lives of the church members.

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I remember there was a time in the history of our church where I think so many were members yet unsaved and that's one thing

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I would like to testify about that it's so hard to pastor a church with so many unsaved church members and we thank

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God for his grace how he he changed the lives of our people.

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He converted so many and it started by the way in the life of my son my uh uh eldest son who who one day told me that he got saved and uh that was the beginning uh that was the time where uh

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I preached a series of messages on the gospel on salvation and I just praise the

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Lord that he saved so many church members and and the church is really very the vitality of the church is is uh it can really be observed can be felt uh the enthusiasm of the members when it comes to worship study of the scriptures prayers missions is tremendous.

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Praise God and uh tell us about the theological makeup of Grace Life Church in Quezon City.

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Well, Grace Life Church is a strong believer of the doctrines of grace. It's a uh biblically saturated church uh we focus so much on the glory of God um being a former strong Arminian um

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I myself my transformation I was it was a long journey uh before I came to embrace the doctrines of grace uh

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I was a debater against uh Calvinist wow but the more

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I studied yes sir but the more I studied the scriptures little by little uh my my theological uh perspective eroded and uh

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I thank God for for for those people who whom he used in in my theological conversion and you know here in the

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Philippines uh uh Calvinistic or Calvin Calvinist churches are all are very rare and it's so frightening it it's uh it's just like uh you feel so alone you are ostracized you'll be the

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I was disfellowshipped because of this change in my theological perspective. Wow and who from who were you disfellowshipped out of curiosity?

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Who was it that disfellowshipped you? I am part of the Bible Baptist uh fellowship here in the

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Philippines. Like an independent fundamentalist Baptist group? Yes sir yes sir uh this uh

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CDV only group and they're very strong Arminians. And most of them there are there are there are actually uh a handful of uh comparatively that are thoroughgoing

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Calvinists but they are rare. Yes sir very rare and and if ever you will find the preachers in this denomination who who would say that they are electionist or Calvinist uh it's a very shallow grant of Calvinism.

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That is the problem here so uh for a for a preacher from Bible Baptist scholarship to jump into the other the other theological fence he will have to think about his friends or even his uh family because most of those churches and preachers are

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Arminian. Well uh I happen to be someone uh who loves theological debate and I have arranged many debates.

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I'm not the debater but I have arranged debates over the past uh 30 years or so uh most of them featuring my dear friend

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Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries who is a Reformed Baptist apologist and he's also a

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Greek and Hebrew scholar and quite a brilliant brother a prolific writer uh and uh also

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I have featured Dr. Tony Costa who is the professor of Islam and apologetics at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

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But in all my years of arranging debates I've never heard of the debater on the opposite side eventually converting to the position that I hold to and I have met a few people who are in the audiences at these debates who did but never the debater and I'm you've given me a new optimistic outlook that this could actually come to take place by the the grace and mercy and sovereignty of God.

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Of course I always should have had that optimistic outlook but you have even made it more firm because you are a living example of someone who had the humility and also had the blessing of God upon your heart and mind to see these truths and to embrace them.

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Yes, God's grace is truly irresistible in a sense that he illuminated my mind.

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Uh the more I read the bible during those times where I I stood against calvinist preachers in my private studies the holy spirit just illuminated my mind and I just accepted what the bible says and though though uh the the the result of this theological conversion was my being this scholarship from from my former denomination.

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Well how did uh anchored in truth ministries uh and grace life church of muscle muscle shoals alabama discover you and your ministry?

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Well uh I think that was around 2010 or 2011 uh

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I was planning to attend the the shepherds conference of uh

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John MacArthur and uh well looking at the website

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I found out that the the the conference is quite exuberant for me uh and so I I looked for another conference where a a uh a conference that uh houses the doctrines of grace and uh

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I saw a conference uh called the true church conference and that really made me curious uh the true church conference so yeah that's the true church conference yes the true church conference is hosted by grace life church of muscle shoals and so I I made inquiries

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I made inquiries and to make the long story short uh the the conference was free and that would help me a lot because of my limited funds and so I made inquiries and uh they were so welcoming uh they helped me a lot so I was able to attend that was the beginning of my involvement with grace life church of muscle shoals and anchored in truth ministries in fact

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I really felt uh personal love because when

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I was in Atlanta Georgia uh my my my my flight going to muscle shoals

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Alabama Wisconsin and I was really rattled I was so frightened because that was the first time

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I experienced that but uh they were able to shut me down and assured me that someone will pick me up at the airport so this was the beginning of a very a very uh loving relationship with muscle with the uncoordinated truth and that grace life church and uh pastor

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Steve was so accommodating and uh he took me into his house and we had fellowship and uh uh maybe a year or two they had a mission uh trip to Hong Kong and he called me and he asked me if he can take a side trip to the

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Philippines to Manila and uh to visit me so I I told pastor

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Steve by all means pastor please come and I'm I am going to to to organize a small pastor's meeting so you can speak to this pastor so that that was the beginning and uh it was the time where the church was really a very poor but but I know the

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Lord is beginning to work work in the church uh there have been spiritual vitality already in the church there have been a lot of conversions in the church so I think uh the partnership between Uncharted and Truth and our local church in Phelan City really happened in God's appointed time.

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Amen and by the way I want to thank Luke Baker who is my key contact person at Uncharted and Truth.

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I want to thank Luke and Uncharted and Truth for becoming a new sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I'm sure that if you've been listening lately you've been hearing their ads on our program and we so thank them uh for thinking so highly of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio that they deemed us worthy of receiving some of their valuable funds so that we can remain on the air and I want to make sure if if any of our

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Alabama listeners live anywhere near Muscle Shoals or if they're visiting that area it happens to be considered the capital of blues music in the

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United States. A lot of very famous blues musicians either came from Muscle Shoals or forged their careers there but the the website is gracelifeshoals .org

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that's gracelifeshoals s -h -o -a -l -s .org and tell us specifically uh something about Anchored in Truth and by the way their website for those of us those of my listeners who are interested in exploring that ministry as well which is a ministry of Gracelife Church in Muscle Shoals Anchored in Truth's website is anchoredintruth .org.

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Now if you could uh tell us something about that ministry that has been of such great value to you.

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Well one of the things that really got my attention in the early stages of my relationship with Anchored in Truth is uh the emphasis that we are not building, we are striving to build not great churches but biblical churches.

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Amen. I think this is this is one of the problems in the

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Christendom in in in in in the in the broader perspective we have right now.

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I think much of the problem is the the fact that so many churches have deviated and departed from the biblical model of what a church is.

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I cannot agree with you more. Yes sir. Anchored in Truth is strong in missions but at the same time they don't just plant churches.

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Part of the force is to build churches that are biblical in doctrines and practices and so that is one thing that that really glued me to Anchored in Truth.

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You know here in the Philippines uh it was a surprise to me when

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I first visited uh Great Life Church of Marshall Shoals.

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When I saw their huge building, the empty faces of the members, the expository church thing, the pastor

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Jeff Knoblet, uh and when I heard about how they apply biblical church discipline.

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Now that was amazing and and that's the kind of church I was looking for.

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A church that loves the Lord, a church that believes in God's holiness through the through the exercise of church discipline.

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And I remember when when when uh Pastor Jeff Knoblet, Pastor Steve McAllister talked to me about being part of Anchored in Truth.

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Pastor Jeff was so emphatic in saying uh Brother Tim uh we will not put any other burden upon you.

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Accept what the Bible requires from us. And that was that was the thing that brought me my heart closer to Anchored in Truth for their strong stand on biblical doctrines standards and practices.

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By the way I should point out that our guest today Tomateo Ogates deserves an extra round of applause if you will whether literally or figuratively because it is just slightly past four in the morning in the

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Philippines when he is making his when he made his phone call into the studio here just before four o 'clock in the morning.

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So I want to thank you for thinking so highly of this show that you made the effort to wake up extra early.

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And something that we do on this program that is a tradition is whenever we have a first -time guest we have that guest give a testimony a summary of their salvation testimony that would include what kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in if any and what kind of providential circumstances our

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Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you. So why don't we hear some of your story.

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I was reared up in a Christian environment my father being a

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Pentecostal Christian but during my childhood he he turned his back from his ministry from his church and a lot happened in our family because of that and I first met a group of missionaries in an island called

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Palawan. It's it's one of the most beautiful islands in the Philippines but one sailor told me it's one of the loneliest places he went to.

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Anyway this this missionaries these are Pentecostal missionaries came to our place. I was about seven eight years old then and they presented to me a gospel.

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They shared to me about the Lord Jesus Christ and that was my first encounter with the so -called gospel and time passed by there was still longing in my heart for the truth and and providentially the

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Lord brought me to his church which teaches about eternal security because we know you know that Pentecostalism does not house that they spouse but salvation can be lost.

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So this was the time that I was brought into Bible Baptist church in one of the cities here in Metro Manila and it was the first time that I was confronted concerning eternal security.

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It has been a long journey and then

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I made a professor but still there's no there's no peace in my heart.

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There's no peace in my heart. There's a longing there's a fear about hell and through the constant study of the word of God the

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Lord led me into the truth that Christ's redemptive work on the cross of Calvary is the only ground for salvation.

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And I know that very day that I believe the gospel that Christ alone through faith by grace alone and through faith alone

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I know that that day God saved me. And I thank

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God for his grace and I thank God because not only me but the rest of my family got to know the

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Lord Jesus Christ through the gospel that Christ alone by grace alone and through faith alone a person can be saved.

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Praise God. We are going to our first break right now and if you have a question for Pastor Tomoteo Tomiteo Agatas please send in your emails to chrisarnson at gmail .com

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chrisarnson at gmail .com. Please as always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside of the

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USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away we'll be right back with Pastor Tomiteo Agatas.

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Back together again, yeah. Back together again, yeah.

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Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the Shoals. Based in Alabama, it supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world.

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Anchored in Truth is in partnership with 36 church plants, as well as radio stations, theological seminaries, and various programs for unreached people groups.

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This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest for the full two hours today is

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Tomateo Ogotis, who is a pastor in the

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Philippines, specifically the pastor of Grace Life Church in Quezon City in the

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Philippines, and he is also the director for Southeast Asia for Anchored in Truth Ministries, which is a ministry outreach of Grace Life Church in Muscle Shoals, Alabama.

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Today we are discussing the unique challenges of planting churches in the Philippines. If you have a question, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

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chrisarnzen at gmail .com. Always give us your first name, at least your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

35:23

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. We established how our

35:30

Lord brought you to a saving knowledge of Him. Now I'm really dying to find out a little bit more about how when you were going around challenging and participating in debates with Calvinist Christians.

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I don't know if they were all pastors or theologians or what roles in the church they were involved in, but you were involved in debates.

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I'm assuming you mean these were formal, public, moderated debates? Well, most of this debate with us or with Brother Chris is done in person -to -person debates, and not necessarily we do it in public, but the

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Calvinist preachers in the Philippines are quite aggressive, and so they would come to our fellowship and then

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I would be there to face them, but not necessarily a debate that is a dirty moderator and an organized one.

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So what was it? Was there a certain subject that the

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Lord used in one of these confrontations that finally began to break that stronghold against Calvinism that you had, or was it just a series of issues that were piling up that finally made you bow the knee to the fact that God is indeed sovereign over all things?

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Well, I think what really broke the calmness back on my theological persuasion was

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Acts chapter 13, if you would allow me to read this verse. 1348, right?

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Yes, yes. This was really a dynamite for me when the

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Lord opened my eyes on this verse, and when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the

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Lord, and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. Because, you know, before my conversion, before my transformation,

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I had this in reverse. My stand before was,

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I believe, and therefore was ordained. But that is not what the

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Bible says. Not the reason that people believe, because they were ordained.

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That really changed my perspective. That was a big help on my understanding.

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And, you know, the issue is always about the human will. Man is able to believe, man is able to understand that more and more that I read, for example,

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Romans chapter 3, the more I go deeper into the study of Romans chapter 3 about human depravity, the more

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I was convinced that it takes God's sovereign grace for salvation to make a person believe in the

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Lord Jesus Christ. Yes, in fact, I have asked many individuals, many professing

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Christians who are not Reformed, I've asked them the very question, why is it that you came to have faith in Jesus Christ, and many of the folks that I'm sure you know, whether it's in your neighborhood or in your family, or just people that you've become acquainted with, many of them are in a world's understanding of things.

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They are good and decent people. They are good parents. They may be even better parents than many

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Christians. They are faithful spouses. They are hard workers and really accomplished folks in whatever field or career where they have been working.

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They are intelligent. They may even be humble. They may be even very self -aware and so on of their failures and so on.

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And yet, they did not come to Christ. Why is it that you did? I've never heard an adequate answer, and I don't believe anybody who is

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Arminian or non -Reformed can answer that question without giving credit to themselves.

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I don't think that it's possible to answer that from an Arminian worldview and an

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Arminian theology and an Arminian anthropology. I don't think that it's possible to answer that question without saying, well,

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I was more aware of my sin, and I was more aware of my need of a Savior. Well, then you're saying it's something that was superior about you.

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Well, I was just more understanding of what the Scriptures teach.

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I was more well -read in the Bible. Well, you're saying something better about yourself. You could go on and on and on, and there's really,

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I don't think, any wiggle room out of the position that they have placed themselves in.

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Am I right? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. That's the problem with Arminianism.

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They're always, you know, the human will is really superior. It all depends on yourself.

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But the Bible is so clear. For by grace are you saved. It's all by the grace of God.

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It's through Christ alone, by grace alone, and through faith alone, a person can be saved.

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It is difficult to go against what the

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Bible says when it comes to salvation. And when you mentioned

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Acts 13 -48, I immediately, well, actually, I guessed before you mentioned it, you mentioned

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Acts 13, but I knew you were going to head for 13 -48 because it's one of the most classic texts that I've never heard any non -Calvinist come up with a good answer for that text because of the ordo salutis in there.

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It's just inescapable. But I even have a friend. I've known him for decades.

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He's a dear friend, originally from a Church of Christ background. I don't know if he would describe himself that way today, but he is not a

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Calvinist. And he actually wrote a book. His name is Dr. Efflegard Smith. He's written some really excellent books, but he wrote one book called

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Troubling Questions for Calvinists. And at least he had the humility to put in the subtitle, and all the rest of us.

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But he admitted in that book that he had no answer for Acts 13 -48.

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And he said that every attempt he saw or heard from a non -Calvinist had to involve eisegesis and really twist the text to make it fit their beliefs.

43:28

He had enough humility and honesty to admit that in his book. So let's go from there now to the climate.

43:41

I don't mean how warm the weather is, or how humid or dry.

43:48

But the theological climate of the Philippines. I understand that it is a predominantly

43:54

Roman Catholic country, if I'm not mistaken. Yes, sir. Tell us about that.

44:02

Well, the strong Catholic influence in the Philippines is really very strong.

44:10

Having been a colony of Spain for almost 400 years, lest we forget, Spain is called the champion of Catholicism.

44:20

Because we've been under the Spanish powers for almost 400 years,

44:25

Catholicism is deeply entrenched in Filipino psyche. 80 % of the population are

44:33

Catholics. Philippines is labeled as the only Christian nation in Asia.

44:40

And just several, maybe a year past, one of the archbishops of Manila was appointed,

44:51

I think, to the number three highest position in Vatican.

44:58

His name is Luis Tagle, a Filipino cardinal. He was appointed the

45:04

Prefect of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples. I'm citing these facts because I just want you to see how predominant the

45:13

Roman Catholic Church is in the Philippines. Now, at present, watching the social media,

45:21

I think the Catholic Church in the Philippines is becoming more aggressive in spreading this fallacious

45:33

Catholic faith. And I'm really surprised how they can present us with a very obvious doctrinal error.

45:50

That's how aggressive they are. And so, we who are planting churches are praising more aggressive

46:11

Catholic people in the mission field. And another thing, after the

46:22

Spanish -American War at the beginning of the 20th century, the

46:29

American missionaries came in. And part of the program was to divide the

46:35

Philippine archipelago, then the northern part, the

46:42

Methodists were placed on those areas, the

46:49

Central Philippines, the Baptist denominations, and then on the southern part of the

46:56

Philippines were the Alliance Church, Prosper Gospel Church.

47:02

So that's how the American people or military divided the

47:10

Philippines. Now, here is another thing. Now, this eccebilism and this

47:20

Pentecostalism was exported to the Philippines, and it's really big here in the

47:27

Philippines now. This posed a great challenge to Bible preaching or through Gospel preaching.

47:45

But it is the stand of our church, the

47:57

Grace Life Church of Quezon City, and in partnership with Uncordant Truth, to carry on the preaching of the true

48:06

Gospel. Now, it's not easy, brother Chris. But our

48:16

God is gracious. For example, one of the churches we planted two years ago was a church in Cabanatuan City, a city of more than a million inhabitants.

48:33

I thank the Lord because the Lord had sent or developed preachers who are faithful in the study of God's Word, who are faithful in exegeting the

48:49

Word of God, expounding the Word of God. I remember when we were about to start the work there, the two preachers asked me,

48:58

Pastor Tim, what are we going to do? And the only advice I gave them was this, preach the

49:04

Word of God. Just preach the Word of God. Whenever you have a chance, you share the

49:11

Word of God, you share the Gospel. When you stand behind the pulpit, be sure that you are bringing the

49:18

Word of God. And I would testify that this church in Cabanatuan City is one of the healthiest churches we have under AIT umbrella.

49:30

And we thank God for His grace. Praise God. Well, when it comes to actually church planting, how does it actually work out physically?

49:44

And I'm sure it's not exactly a cookie -cutter situation where everybody's situation is exactly the same.

49:52

But I'm assuming that perhaps in an area where there is no local church that is teaching the doctrines of sovereign grace, that you might have a

50:04

Bible study start in someone's home and invite neighbors and so on and somehow advertise in some fashion or manner the fact that you are meeting there.

50:16

Is that a typical way when you begin a church plant and then when enough people start gathering, you realize it's time to plant a church?

50:27

Yes. What we do is we still go house to house and we share the

50:36

Gospel. And when the people would open their home, then we will start a

50:44

Bible study, a regular Bible study, until they come to know the

50:50

Lord Jesus Christ, until they are converted. And so, we plant

50:56

Bible studies around the city, home Bible studies. And then we look for a venue, for example, in Cabanatuan City, in Colombo City.

51:10

Now, a new church plant is, we are starting a new work in Bacuor City, the next province after Metro Manila.

51:22

What we are doing is we have home Bible studies, we have personal evangelism, we go house to house, and then the people begin to come more for a gathering.

51:39

And so, we look for a venue. When we are planting a church, we usually rent a house and renovate it to make it suitable for public worship.

51:57

We're going to have you pick up right where you left off there when we come back from our midway break. Please be patient with us, folks, because the midway break is a bit longer than the other breaks because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

52:09

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the

52:16

FCC requires of Grace Life Radio the localizing of their programs, including

52:22

Iron Trepans Iron, geographically to Lake City. So, they air, during this midway break, their own public service announcements and other local things, while we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

52:36

Please use this time wisely. Write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to them and patronize them whenever possible.

52:47

And if you can't patronize them, at the very least, please contact them and thank them for sponsoring this program, if indeed this program is important to you.

52:58

If you really don't want us to disappear, at the very least, contact our advertisers and say, thank you so much for sponsoring

53:05

Iron Trepans Iron Radio. That should go a long way in keeping them happy when you can't purchase their products, use their services, visit their churches, support their parachurch organizations.

53:17

So, please, at least say thank you to our advertisers. And also, use this time to write down questions for our guest,

53:24

Tomateo Ogates, about the unique challenges of planting churches in the

53:30

Philippines. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

53:38

Give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence. We'll be right back with Tomateo Ogates after these messages.

53:52

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. My friend Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia once again for the

54:01

G3 Conference. This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme,

54:08

Christ is Supreme Over All. I'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of God through preaching, teaching, and singing, including

54:18

John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Conrad M. Bayway, Daryl Bernard Harrison, and Virgil Walker.

54:24

For details, visit g3conference .com. That's g3conference .com. Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you

54:30

September 30th through October 2nd at G321. This is James White reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

54:53

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

54:59

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

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Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jansen and Christopher McDowell.

55:12

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

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Christ Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

55:36

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

55:45

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net,

55:52

that's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711, that's 631 -696 -5711.

56:06

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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We are excited to announce another new member of the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio advertising family,

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01:01:41

I'm A .M. Brewster. I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent, and host of its award -winning podcast.

01:01:47

I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s, and what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.

01:01:57

That's why Truth, Love, Parent exists. We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents

01:02:03

God called and created them to be. We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.

01:02:15

Please visit us at truthloveparent .com. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

01:02:39

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

01:02:48

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world.

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They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

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or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.

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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor.

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Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has had a long -time partnership with our friends at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

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01:05:31

Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

01:05:36

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider

01:05:42

Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

01:05:52

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

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I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

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Chris up for just such a time, and knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

01:06:17

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

01:06:22

Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

01:06:31

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com

01:06:38

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

01:06:49

Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted.

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01:09:31

Before we return to our guest, Tomateo Ogates, who is a church planter and pastor of Grace Life Church of Quezon City in the

01:09:40

Philippines and director of Southeast Asia for Anchored in Truth Ministries, before we return to our conversation on the unique challenges of planting churches in the

01:09:50

Philippines, we just have a couple of very important announcements to make. You've been hearing the ads for the

01:09:55

G3 Conference, where I will be manning an exhibitor's booth, God willing,

01:10:01

September 30th through October 2nd in Atlanta, Georgia. Well, you've also been hearing that Voti Baucom is on the roster.

01:10:11

For those of you who are unaware, Voti had a serious health setback which required quadruple bypass surgery and thankfully he has been released from the hospital and he is recovering with his family here in the

01:10:26

United States. Many of you may know that Voti left the comforts of the

01:10:32

United States to labor alongside my dear friend Dr. Conrad Mbewe of Kabwata Baptist Church of Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, who is involved at the

01:10:43

African Christian University where Voti is now laboring as well, but he is here in the

01:10:49

United States while he recovers and he may not be because of his health at the

01:10:54

G3 Conference, but pray that his health recovers so fully and quickly that he can keep that appointment to be on the roster at the

01:11:03

G3 Conference. There's over 20 speakers that will be there and I will be there manning my exhibitor's booth, so try to be there if possible.

01:11:13

I would love to meet you during a break at the conference while I'm manning my exhibitor's booth.

01:11:19

For more information, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com. Also folks, if you really love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, please,

01:11:30

I'm urging you go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

01:11:36

You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion. We are in urgent need of your financial help.

01:11:43

The coronavirus pandemic hysteria has hurt a lot of people in our audience financially and therefore the giving has gone down and we are really hurting financially, but we do thank all of you who have been giving.

01:12:01

I can't thank you enough from the bottom of my heart who have still in the midst of trying days have been giving to ironsharpensironradio .com

01:12:13

and not only those of you who have been giving since 2005 when we first launched the program, but even those who have been giving recently for the very first time.

01:12:25

I was so delighted just yesterday to receive quite a substantial donation from a first -time donor who said she used her check that she received from the government, her stimulus check, she used the largest portion to bless

01:12:44

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. She divvied the amount up between some other ministries, but she gave us the largest share.

01:12:52

So I was very humbled and honored to hear that news. But we thank all of you who are giving.

01:12:58

For those of you who listen to the show regularly, you love it, you share the downloadable mp3s, the free mp3s with family, friends, and loved ones, and you've never given before, please search your heart and search your bank account and give if you want us to stick around.

01:13:15

Obviously, I never want anybody siphoning money away from the regular giving to their own local church where they are a member in order to give to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:13:24

Never do that. If you are really struggling to survive, please don't put your family in financial peril or jeopardy by giving to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:13:36

Those two things are commands of God to provide for your church and your family. Providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God.

01:13:43

But if you are blessed financially above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, providing for church and family, you have extra money collecting interest in the bank, you have extra money for recreational purposes and trivial purposes.

01:13:58

Well, please use a portion of that money that you have to bless us and help us to remain on the air if you love the show.

01:14:05

And if you don't love it, I'm not sure why you're listening. But please help us out. We are in urgent need of your help, perhaps more than ever before.

01:14:12

Also, if you want to advertise with us, send me an email to Chris Arnzen and put advertising in the subject line.

01:14:18

As long as whatever it is you are promoting is compatible with what we believe, we would love to help you launch an ad campaign because we are in urgent need of those advertising dollars as well.

01:14:29

If you prefer mailing in a check rather than giving on the website, a physical address will appear on your screen when you click support at IronSharpensIronRadio .com

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where you can make checks payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and mail them to that physical address.

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But please visit IronSharpensIronRadio .com frequently and click support at IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

01:14:56

We really do need your help. And by the way, folks, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church, I have lists, extensive lists, of biblically faithful churches all over the globe.

01:15:06

And now I have a new one to add to the list in the Philippines, Grace Life Church in Quezon City.

01:15:13

And so no matter where on the planet earth you live, I may be able to help you find a church.

01:15:20

I have helped many people in our audience spanning the globe that found churches through contacting me that were right around the corner sometimes from where they lived.

01:15:31

They didn't even know these churches existed, or they knew the churches were there but didn't know that they were biblically faithful. So send me an email to ChrisArnsInAtGmail .com

01:15:39

if that describes you. You need a church, a biblically faithful one. ChrisArnsInAtGmail .com

01:15:44

and put I need a church in the subject line. That's ChrisArnsInAtGmail .com and put

01:15:49

I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you could send in a question for our guest today,

01:15:56

Tomateo Ogates. And as I said before, he is the pastor of Grace Life Church in Quezon City, Philippines.

01:16:06

And he's also the director of Southeast Asia for Anchored in Truth Ministries, our new sponsor.

01:16:16

And we're discussing the unique challenges of planting churches in the Philippines. Our email address again is

01:16:22

ChrisArnsInAtGmail .com. ChrisArnsInAtGmail .com. Tomateo, since our theme today is are the unique challenges of planting churches in the

01:16:34

Philippines, can you tell us what are the unique challenges of planting churches in the

01:16:41

Philippines, things that involve hurdles that you have to overcome? I mean, obviously, everywhere individuals plant churches.

01:16:49

Maybe it's far less, infinitely less difficult in the Bible Belt or something. But it's still difficult, even here in the

01:16:56

United States, it can be difficult getting a church established from the ground floor up.

01:17:02

Tell us what the unique challenges that you face are. Let me answer your question by going back to the previous question about the theological climate in the

01:17:12

Philippines. I think this is one of the obstacles in church planting.

01:17:22

We all have here the different cults, post -Christian religions like Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, and other stuff like post -Christian groups.

01:17:38

But we also have a localized one called Iglesia Ni Cristo, which was founded by a

01:17:45

Filipino preacher. In fact, Brother James White had a very good debate with one of their debaters.

01:17:55

Now, this Iglesia Ni Cristo is very influential in the

01:18:02

Philippines. Whenever there is an election, they vote as a bloc.

01:18:08

And therefore, one of the conditions to the political parties, if ever they're going to support a specific politician, is if ever a presidential candidate will be elected whom they are supporting, then one of the conditions is for one of their church members to be given a cabinet position.

01:18:33

So that's how influential this Iglesia Ni Cristo is. And maybe you have heard that the debate between James White and Joseph Ntlison, it's centered on this cult that denies the deity of the

01:18:52

Lord Jesus Christ, and salvation by church membership. Now, I had a chance to debate with one of their ministers, and they were so good in twisting.

01:19:05

For example, Ephesians 5, verse 23. And he is the savior of the body.

01:19:12

The minister asked me, what is the work of Jesus Christ? And I gave him several answers, and he quoted his verse, and he said, he is the savior.

01:19:25

And he said, who is he going to save? He is the savior of what?

01:19:31

Of whom? And he said, the church. And he concluded that to be saved, you need to be a member of the church.

01:19:40

But I rebutted by saying, go back to Acts chapter 2.

01:19:46

When the Bible says that 3 ,000 were added unto the church, were they saved already, or by joining the church they will be saved?

01:20:00

Now you see, this regression crystal is so strong in spreading the false doctrine that you can be saved by joining the church.

01:20:14

So that's one of the things that really, they are very antagonistic, they will intimidate you.

01:20:25

But anyhow, still the Philippines is a democratic country, we just preach, we just hear the gospel.

01:20:32

And just some time ago, I also heard about,

01:20:39

I heard this picture, I know this book came from the

01:20:46

U .S., the New Emergent Church. I don't know if you know that brother Chris, the

01:20:51

New Emergent Church? Yes, I am familiar with it, and I know that they're not monolithic necessarily, but yeah, they are a danger right now.

01:21:02

Yeah, they are destroying the scriptures. So this is now the, this is an additional group that supports the gospel.

01:21:15

That's the reason why Uncordant Truth helps great lifespans of Quezon City in having a

01:21:24

Bible college. In our Bible college, Uncordant Truth Bible College in Quezon City, we divided the curriculum into four major areas.

01:21:41

The first is biblical studies. Biblical studies is simply mastering the scriptures. So you have the

01:21:46

Old Testament surveys and the New Testament survey. Included in that are the life and the acts of the apostles and the life of Jesus Christ.

01:21:57

And we also have the theological studies and the ministry competence training.

01:22:05

And this includes biblical counseling, hermeneutics, and homiletical studies.

01:22:15

And part also of the curriculum is the church leadership and management training.

01:22:21

So we try to have a holistic and a comprehensive training.

01:22:28

We customize it to the needs of our country.

01:22:35

So Uncordant Truth Ministries is supporting this ministry and helping us, sending us books.

01:22:43

And of course, my relationship with Pastor Steve McAllister, the one who handles

01:22:50

Uncordant Truth Ministries International, from time to time I have conversations with him, so he can help me, especially in difficult situations.

01:23:05

One more thing, the challenges that we have, you know, the Philippines, the high incidence of poverty in the

01:23:14

Philippines is another thing that we need to overcome.

01:23:19

I'm sorry, could you repeat that again? Because I did not quite understand what you said, I'm sorry. The high incidence of poverty is also a hurdle that we must overcome.

01:23:31

Oh, the high instances of poverty. Yes sir, yes sir. The gap between the rich and the poor in the very solid middle class society.

01:23:52

But here in the Philippines, middle class is almost non -existent. So either you are very rich or you are poor.

01:24:00

And that really pushes a challenge when you start a new work in the

01:24:11

Philippines. Because the support for the church, and his family, the rent of venues or houses, and other needs.

01:24:32

But I thank God because Uncordant Truth Ministries on a monthly basis are helping us.

01:24:40

We are supporting more than 20 pastors here in the Philippines, and also in Indonesia, and we also have in Myanmar, and we also have in Singapore.

01:24:55

So Uncordant Truth is really a big help in the gospel work here in the

01:25:02

Philippines and Southeast Asia as a whole. Wow. We have a listener named

01:25:10

B .B. in Cumberland Valley, Pennsylvania. B .B. as in B .B.

01:25:15

Warfield. B .B. says, here in the United States, Roman Catholicism is predominantly a very ecumenical movement, largely due to the liberalizing of their church that has occurred over the past century, especially since Vatican II.

01:25:35

Their current catechism even teaches that Muslims and Jews worship the same

01:25:43

God as we do as Christians. And therefore, you don't have as much antagonism, as much as you would receive from those who are the more strict

01:25:56

Latin right type of non -ecumenical Catholics who are a very tiny minority.

01:26:03

Is the situation the same in the Philippines, or are the Catholics more militant? Well, I think the ecumenical way of doing things in America is just a scheme or a strategy.

01:26:20

But I do still believe that the chief aim is to dominate

01:26:28

America, to Catholicize America. But in the Philippines, I would say the churches here are more militant.

01:26:37

They are more aggressive. In fact, I'll give an example, Brother Chris, how the local

01:26:45

Catholic priests fool their parishioners, how they keep their people within the

01:26:54

Catholic Church. They would tell the people, if you will die, since all the cemeteries are owned by the

01:27:03

Catholic Church, where will you be buried? This is a very simple issue, but ordinary folks are intimidated.

01:27:13

It becomes a problem for them. So this is one of the ways of keeping the

01:27:20

Filipinos within the control of the Catholic Church. They are very militant. They are very controlling.

01:27:27

And I would not say that they are intimidating, because I think media is strong already in the

01:27:43

Philippines. I would agree with the observation here in the Philippines, maybe just like in South America and Central America, the

01:27:54

Catholic Church is very much militant. Now would that go so far as, like for instance here in the

01:28:02

United States, the only Roman Catholics that really would deny the salvation of Protestants, for instance, would be people in sects like the

01:28:13

Feniites or the Lefebvrites, which many view as not being in true communion with the

01:28:22

Church of Rome. But the militancy in the Philippines, would the average

01:28:28

Catholic, perhaps even priest, even deny the salvation of those outside of the

01:28:35

Roman Catholic Church? Yes, that is one of the basic tenets of Roman Catholicism.

01:28:44

There is the salvation outside of the Catholic Church, but embedded in the minds of the

01:28:49

Filipino Catholics. And that's the reason why when you come to their houses, bringing with you the scriptures, you're trying to share the gospel with them, then definitely they are afraid to entertain or accommodate you, simply because it is embedded in their mind that there is the salvation outside of the

01:29:10

Catholic Church. Now does the militancy ever lead to violence against evangelicals and others?

01:29:24

Maybe it had gunned down, uh, it had gunned down,

01:29:32

I meant when it comes to violent responses of Catholic churches, it had gunned down.

01:29:39

They are more sophisticated in the way they oppose the preaching of the gospel.

01:29:45

And maybe it can be attributed to the change of media in the

01:29:56

Philippines. They are more open, they expose any violence related to religion.

01:30:06

Now, many years ago on this program, well perhaps not many, but quite a number anyway,

01:30:14

I interviewed a brother who's actually a

01:30:21

Seventh -day Baptist, not a Seventh -day Adventist, but a Seventh -day Baptist, and his name is

01:30:28

Rod Henry, and he is also a Calvinist, in spite of being a Seventh -day Baptist, and from what

01:30:35

I understand, originally the vast majority of Seventh -day Baptists throughout history were

01:30:40

Calvinists. But he was involved in missionary work in the

01:30:47

Philippines, and he wrote a book a number of years ago called The Filipino Spirit World, which

01:30:54

I found quite fascinating. And he was basically talking about the folk religion and folk

01:31:04

Christianity of many in the Philippines that combined animism and some pagan practices and so on, and pagan beliefs, with a veneer of Christianity.

01:31:22

Are you familiar, and have you experienced that kind of opposition to the gospel from people who are in more of a cultic or tribal kind of religion?

01:31:37

Yes, actually that's the brunt of Catholicism you'll find in the Philippines. It is a mixture of Catholicism plus witchcraft plus animism.

01:31:54

For example, here in the Philippines, you will find people who practice witchcraft, but they are devoutly

01:32:06

Catholic. You'll find here people who are indulging in fortune -telling, but they are devoutly

01:32:15

Catholic. Same here. I know Catholics that visit the

01:32:23

Philippines. I'm trying to think of the name of these people. The necromancers, they claim to speak with the dead.

01:32:32

Yes. I know devoted, very religious Roman Catholics that visit these people.

01:32:38

In fact, a bishop on Long Island, a monsignor on Long Island, I think he may have passed away.

01:32:48

He was quite a well -known Catholic monsignor, had his own television and radio program, and wrote articles.

01:32:57

In fact, he was one of the original co -hosts of a TV show called The God Squad, which involved him, a

01:33:06

Catholic monsignor, a liberal rabbi, and a liberal mainline

01:33:13

Protestant minister. He actually used to counsel people in grief to visit these people, these necromancers.

01:33:26

I know what you're coming from. That actually exists here in the United States, too. I'm assuming ancestor worship is a part of that as well?

01:33:37

Ancestor worship is not so prevalent in the Philippines, but among Filipinos, they still have it, ancestral worship.

01:33:47

By the way, as I look at a cover of this book,

01:33:54

The Filipino Spirit World, it's called Filipino Spirit World, A Challenge to the

01:34:01

Church, by Rod Henry. I don't know if it's any different in the

01:34:20

Philippines. I don't know the answer for that.

01:34:29

Do you do the same thing over there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is kind of strange.

01:34:36

But we have another listener. This listener is choosing to remain anonymous, and the anonymous listener says,

01:34:44

I have been praying about visiting the Philippines for a mission trip, and I was wondering how safe it is in the

01:34:54

Philippines. Are there certain areas I should avoid? I know that if I'm intending on going on a mission trip,

01:35:03

I should be willing to lay down my life, but I do have a family with children, and I'm not quite ready to put myself in that kind of immediate danger.

01:35:14

What can you tell us about the different areas of the Philippines that might be safer and might be more dangerous?

01:35:22

Well, I was born and I grew up in the southern

01:35:29

Philippines, and there is a section in Mindanao, the largest southern island in the

01:35:39

Philippines. There's a portion there that is inhabited by Muslims, and I would advise anyone, especially the

01:35:49

Americans, to go down there without proper preparation.

01:35:55

But I would even recommend for Americans to go there because the

01:36:01

Muslim extremist groups there, the Abu Sayyaf, for example, have been kidnapping not only

01:36:14

Americans, but any people where they can get money from.

01:36:21

But here in Luzon, where our church is located, this is dominantly a peaceful area.

01:36:34

So maybe if we will come, we may focus on Luzon Island.

01:36:46

That's the largest in the northern

01:36:51

Philippines, and then the central Philippines is also safe. Oh, we have

01:37:00

Christopher in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who asks, is there a warm relationship between the

01:37:11

Calvinist churches and the Arminian churches there, or is it very hostile all the time?

01:37:16

I realize that there may be exceptions either way, but I was just curious what the predominant atmosphere is like involving inter -church relationships between evangelicals who all love the scriptures and believe in the inerrancy of scripture and reject works righteousness and idolatry, but at the same time differ on the views on God's sovereignty and the doctrines of sovereign grace.

01:37:44

Now, I'm speaking for the churches in the Philippines between the Arminian and the

01:37:52

Philippines. For example, the Arminian pastors will call the doctrines of grace as a demonic preaching.

01:38:09

And in the same manner... Can you repeat that word that you use? What kind of preaching? They call it demonic preaching.

01:38:17

Oh, demonic. Yeah. They call Calvinism demonic preaching?

01:38:23

Yes, yes. Yes, I remember there was an anti -Calvinist fundamentalist

01:38:29

Baptist church on Long Island. I had a friend who was a member there and he showed me a tract that they had in the track rack.

01:38:36

Calvinism, the doctrine of demons. Yes, sir. So, it is hard.

01:38:45

I think it's a rarity to find Calvinist churches fellowshipping with Arminian churches.

01:38:59

Even here in Quezon City, many churches would not like to fellowship with our church because they know

01:39:12

I am adhering to the doctrines of grace. Now, how about through your

01:39:19

Bible college? Has that drawn any students from non -reformed churches?

01:39:26

Because I know that that has been the experience with my dear friend Dr. Conrad Mbewe of Kabwatha Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa.

01:39:35

He is a Reformed Baptist and yet they have been blessed to see people from other theological perspectives outside of Calvinism come to be educated by the

01:39:48

Reformed Baptist very often. I was just curious if your colleges open the doors in that way? Well, there are several pastors who are attending our classes whom

01:40:01

I know to be Arminian in their position. And by the way,

01:40:15

Brother Chris, every year Unclear Truth hosts a pastor's conference here in the

01:40:21

Philippines. We draw pastors from all over the

01:40:26

Philippines. The last time we had a conference, we had more than a hundred pastors attending in spite of the fact that there was a pandemic and the government was strict when it comes to mass gathering, yet so many pastors came and attended the conference.

01:40:47

Now, many of those who attended this conference are actually

01:40:53

Arminian, and I opened the conference for them, and the

01:41:01

Doctrines of Grace are being included in the preaching, and I just hope and pray the Lord will use it to biblically educate the pastors about the

01:41:11

Doctrines of Grace. Amen, amen. We have John in Bangor, Maine, who asks,

01:41:19

How does your Bible college function? Must you be physically present to participate, or can you be a student via long -distance learning,

01:41:28

Zoom meetings, etc.? Well, during the time when the pandemic started, when the government started to lock down churches here, we have face -to -face.

01:41:44

Those church members who live nearby, those students who resides near our college, they come for a face -to -face practice, but we also have

01:42:01

Zoom meetings, especially those who are coming from the provinces, so they are able to attend our classes via Zoom meeting.

01:42:12

And you actually opened up a can of worms here to ask you about how your government and how the churches are responding to the coronavirus pandemic.

01:42:24

We have many churches who are actually probably still in a minority, but there are a considerable and growing number of churches that have been refusing to obey what they would believe to be not only fictitious or mandates that are based on fictitious information, the shutting down of churches, the mandates that insist upon all people wearing masks, ridiculously far spacing in seating.

01:43:01

And some of the churches, depending upon where they are located geographically here in the United States and in Canada, some of them have been facing fairly serious consequences.

01:43:14

There have been arrests, there have been police who have been charged with guarding the church buildings to make sure no one enters them.

01:43:26

They've been fenced off some of them. Those are the more extreme cases. What's going on there in Canada and how are the reformed churches responding to this?

01:43:37

Because the reformed churches here in the United States are not all like -minded over this. You have some like Dr.

01:43:42

James R. White, who we've been mentioning, who has refused to shut down his church, Apologia Church in Phoenix, Arizona.

01:43:52

And yet there are others who are very upset with people like Dr. White and me and others who refuse to shut down, who insist that we should shut down and that is a true way of demonstrating love and all this.

01:44:09

What's the situation like there? Well, most of the churches, because of the government protocols, most churches are closed.

01:44:25

Wow, so they've been just obeying the government over this. Yes, sir.

01:44:31

But in our local church here in Quezon City, I kept the doors of our place of worship open.

01:44:45

But first, I told the church members, since we are residing inside the church's compound, my family and all the church workers will have a worship service.

01:45:02

We will worship the Lord. But I will keep the doors open. I did not encourage them to come, but neither will

01:45:13

I discourage them to come to worship. Well, Brother Chris, at the onset of this lockdown in the

01:45:26

Philippines, I understood what the government is trying to achieve.

01:45:33

They would like to stop the spread of the coronavirus. They are concerned with the physical welfare of the

01:45:41

Filipinos. They see the health of the Filipinos. But as a pastor,

01:45:49

I am concerned with the physical health of the Filipinos. But what the government cannot see is the spiritual condition of the believers.

01:46:00

What will happen to them for a long -drawn -out stoppage of worship?

01:46:06

I was really afraid of that. And so when members would ask me, should we obey the government or not?

01:46:17

Now, here is my position, Brother Chris. A government edict, a government policy which does not contradict the word of God, I will fully submit.

01:46:35

But when a government law or policy goes directly against the teachings of the word of God, I would follow what

01:46:45

Peter and the rest of the apostles did when they said, we ought to obey God rather than men.

01:46:52

But on the other hand, we are so strict in following, for example, the wearing of face masks, the wearing of face shields, the social distancing.

01:47:10

For example, here in our church, our main chapel is adjacent to our fellowship hall and basketball gym.

01:47:21

So we use those buildings. We just place a palm system in the fellowship hall and have a projector so they can see me worshiping.

01:47:39

And another additional way of complying with the government protocol, every

01:47:45

Sunday we have three services. We divided the members into three groups so we can have a compliant social distancing, especially in the sitting arrangements.

01:48:01

We are doing well. And I think our stand that we continued worshiping the

01:48:09

Lord, observing these basic protocols, but not stopping our worship,

01:48:14

I think it is spreading. Uh, uh, some churches belonging to AIP is continuing their worship service, though I'm not so loud about it.

01:48:28

Uh, because as I've said to the members, according to your faith, if you can trust the

01:48:34

Lord, if you believe, if you find the value of worshiping so important that we should not stop our worship, if that is your faith.

01:48:49

So the members responded and we thank

01:48:54

God for his protection. And we have to go to our final break right now. If you have a question for our guest today, uh, and if you just tuned us in, our guest is

01:49:05

Tomateo Ogates, a church planter and pastor of Grace Life Church of Quezon City, Philippines, and director of Southeast Asia for Anchored and Truth Ministries.

01:49:15

If you have a question for him, send it in now because we're rapidly running out of time. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

01:49:22

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

01:49:35

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Or visit lynnbrookbaptist .org. That's lynnbrookbaptist .org. Pastor Tomateo, if you could give us a summary of the things that you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about your ministry there in the

01:56:51

Philippines. Well, please include us in your prayers, the gospel work here in the

01:56:59

Philippines as well as in Southeast Asia, particularly what's happening in Myanmar right now.

01:57:05

We have several pastors being supported in Myanmar. I think there is an information blackout because I could not reach anymore.

01:57:14

I could not read any news about Myanmar anymore and I could not reach the people there. Please pray for the work in Myanmar.

01:57:22

That's all, Brother Chris. Well, I want to thank you so much for being such an excellent and fascinating guest here on the program.

01:57:32

And I also want to make sure that you let our listeners know how they can contact the

01:57:38

Grace Life Church of Quezon City, Philippines and also your Bible College. Well, I am closely connected with the

01:57:49

Anchored in Truth Ministries. Any communication may go through Anchored in Truth Ministries or Grace Life Church of the

01:57:58

Shoals. And their website is anchoredintruth .org,

01:58:04

anchoredintruth .org. And I just have been so blessed today and I've learned so much about your country and your work there.

01:58:17

I'm looking forward to having you return to the program at some point in the near future. And any final words of prayer requests or certain needs that you may have?

01:58:31

Just prayers for the national pastors in the Philippines. You know, we have a continuing education program for the pastors here, even if you've been in the ministry for a long time.

01:58:43

Please pray for these pastors and also please pray for me that I will be able to serve them according to the dictates of the scriptures.

01:58:51

Thank you very much, Brother Chris. Great. Amen. And by the way, you can also find out more about Grace Life Church of Muscle Shoals, Alabama at gracelifeshoals .org,

01:59:03

gracelifeshoals, S -H -O -A -L -S .org. I want to thank you so much,

01:59:08

Pastor Tom Mateo, for being our guest today. I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write questions.

01:59:16

I hope that you all have a very safe and joyful and healthy and Christ -honoring weekend and Lord's Day.

01:59:25

And I hope you all remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.