April 16, 2021 Show with Timoteo Ogatis on “The Unique Challenges of Planting Churches in the Philippines”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 16th day of April 2021.

Church Planting and Gospel Work in the Philippines

I'm thrilled to have on the program today for the very first time to discuss a subject that we have not focused on for an entire program before today. We have Tomateo Ogates, a church planter and pastor of Grace Slice Church in Quezon City, Philippines, and director of Southeast Asia for Anchored in Truth Ministries, and we're going to be addressing the topic, the unique challenges of planting churches in the Philippines.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Tomateo Ogates.

Thank you very much, Chris, for having me in your program. It is an honor what the Lord is doing.

Praise God. And we had a little mishap yesterday. Pastor Tomateo called in yesterday to do the program because in reality and in the Philippines, it is Saturday, April the 17th right now. So therefore, yesterday in the Philippines, it was Friday the 16th.

So we had the days mixed up, but thank God we straightened that out and you were able to come on today. Why don't you tell our listeners something about Grace Life Church of Quezon City, Philippines?

Well, not only in terms of number, but more so in motto or subscript. We thank God because God's grace has been so powerful in the lives of the church members. I remember there was a time in the history of our church where I think so many were members yet unsaved.

And that's one thing I would like to testify about, that it's so hard to pastor a church with so many unsaved church members. And we thank God for the lives of our people. It started, by the way, in the life of my son, my eldest son, who one day told me that he got saved.

And that was the beginning of the gospel on salvation. I just praise the Lord that he saved so many church members. And the church is really very, the vitality of really be observed can be felt as the atheism of the members when it comes to worship, study of the scripture.

Praise God. And tell us about the theological makeup of Grace Life Church in Quezon City.

Well, of the doctrines of grace, equally saturating a former strong Arminian. I myself, my transformation, it was a long journey. The doctrines of grace, I was a debater, Calvinist preachers.

Wow.

But the more I studied the scripture, little by little, my theological... And I thank God for those people in my theological conversion. And here in the Philippines, Calvinists are very rare. And it's just like you feel so alone.

You are ostracized. I was disfellowshipped because of this change in my theological perspective.

Wow.

And from who were you disfellowshipped out of curiosity? Who was it that disfellowshipped you?

I am part of the Bible Baptist here in the Philippines.

Like an independent fundamentalist Baptist group?

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. This KJV on the East group, and they're very strong Arminians.

And most of them, there are actually a handful comparatively that are thoroughgoing Calvinists, but they are rare.

Yes, sir. Very rare. And if ever you will find preachers in this denomination who would say that they are electionist or Calvinist, it's a very shallow grant of Calvinism. Preacher from Bible Baptist scholarship.

To jump into the other theological fence, you will have to think about even his...

Well, I happen to be someone who loves theological debate, and I have arranged many debates. I'm not the debater, but I have arranged debates over the past 30 years or so. Most of them featuring my dear friend, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, who is a Reformed Baptist apologist, and he's also a Greek and Hebrew scholar, and quite a brilliant brother, a prolific writer.

And also, I have featured Dr. Tony Costa, who is the professor of Islam and apologetics at Toronto Baptist Seminary. But in all my years of arranging debates, I've never heard of the debater on the opposite side eventually converting to the position that I hold to.

And I have met a few people who are in the audiences at these debates who did, but never the debater. And you've given me a new optimistic outlook that this could actually come to take place by the grace and mercy and sovereignty of God.

Of course, I always should have had that optimistic outlook, but you have even made it more firm because you are a living example of someone who had the humility and also had the blessing of God upon your heart and mind to see these truths and to embrace them.

Yes, God's grace is truly irresistible in a sense that it illuminated my mind.

I read the Bible.

During those times, my private studies, the Holy Spirit just illuminated my mind and I just accepted what the Bible says. And though the result of this theological conversion with my being this scholarship from my former denomination.

Anchored in Truth and the True Church Conference

Well, how did Anchored in Truth Ministries and Grace Life Church of Muscle Shoals, Alabama discover you and your ministry?

Well, 2010 or 2011, I was planning to attend the Shepherds Conference of Gen. MacArthur. And looking at the website, I found out that the conference is quite exuberant for me. I have another friend that houses the doctrines of grace, and I saw a conference called the True Church Conference, and that really made me curious.

Yeah, that's the True Church Conference.

Yes, the True Church Conference is hosted by Grace Life Church. I made inquiries. To make the long story short, the conference was free, and that was because of my limited funds. And so I made inquiries, and they were so welcoming.

They helped me a lot, so I was able to attend. That was the beginning of my involvement with Grace Life Church of Muscle Shoals and Anchored in Truth Ministries. I really felt my flight going to Muscle Shoals, Alabama, Wisconsin, and I was really rattled.

I was so frightened because that was the first time I experienced that, but they were able to shut me down and assured me that someone will pick me up at the airport. So that was the beginning of a relationship with Anchored in Truth and Grace Life Church.

And he took me into his house, and we had fellowship. And maybe a year or two, they had a—and he asked me if he can take a side trip to the Philippines, to Manila, to visit me. So I told Pastor, and I am going to organize a small thing so you can see the beginning.

And it was the time where the church was really very poor, but I know the Lord is beginning to work in the church. There have been spiritual vitality already in the church. There have been a lot of conversion.

I think the partnership between Anchored in Truth and our local church here in Cajun City really happened in God's appointed time.

Amen.

And by the way, I want to thank Luke Baker, who is my key contact person at Anchored in Truth. I want to thank Luke and Anchored in Truth for becoming a new sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And I'm sure that if you've been listening lately, you've been hearing their ads on our program.

And we so thank them for thinking so highly of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio that they deemed us worthy of receiving some of their valuable funds so that we can remain on the air. And I want to make sure if any of our Alabaman listeners live anywhere near Muscle Shoals or if they're visiting that area, it happens to be considered the capital of blues music in the United States.

A lot of very famous blues musicians either came from Muscle Shoals or forged their careers there. But the website is GraceLifeShoals .org. That's Grace Life Shoals, S-H-O-A-L-S dot org. And tell us specifically something about Anchored in Truth.

And by the way, their website, for those of my listeners who are interested in exploring that ministry as well, which is a ministry of Grace Life Church in Muscle Shoals, Anchored in Truth's website is AnchoredinTruth .org.

If you could, tell us something about that ministry that has been of such great value to you.

We are not building, we are striving, not great churches.

Amen.

I think this is one of the problems in the Christian realm, in the broader perspective we have right now. Much of the problem is the fact that so many churches have become the biblical model of what a church is.

I cannot agree with you more.

Yes, sir. Anchored in Truth is strong in missions, but at the same time, they don't just launch churches of the flock. And so, that is one thing that really glued me to Anchored in Truth. You know, here in the Philippines, it was a surprise to me when I first visited Grace Life Church of Muscle Shoals.

When I saw their huge building, empty faces of the members. It was a powerful church. I heard about why. That was amazing. And that's the kind of church, a church that loves the Lord, a church that believes in God's holiness through the exercise of church.

When Pastor Jeff Robles, Pastor Steve Lock Allister, being part of Anchored in Truth,.

By the way, I should point out that our guest today, Tomateo Ogates, deserves an extra round of applause, if you will, whether literally or figuratively, because it is just slightly past four in the morning in the Philippines when he made his phone call into the studio here, just before four o 'clock in the morning.

So, I want to thank you for thinking so highly of this show that you made the effort to wake up extra early. And something that we do on this program that is a tradition is, whenever we have a first-time guest, we have that guest give a testimony, a summary of their salvation testimony.

That would include what kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in, if any, and what kind of providential circumstances our Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you. Why don't we hear some of your story?

Salvation Testimony and Call to Eternal Security

My father, being a Pentecostal, during my childhood, he was ministering in the church. And a lot happened in our family because of that. And a group of missionaries in an island called Palawan, it's one of the most beautiful islands in the Philippines.

But one sailor told me it's one of the loneliest places he went to. Anyway, these Pentecostal missionaries came to our place. I was about seven, eight years old then. And they presented to me a gospel about the Lord Jesus Christ.

And that was my first. And time passed by. There was still, providentially, the Lord brought me to his church, which teaches eternal security. Because we know, you know, the Pentecostalism does not pause.

They spy that salvation can be lost. So this was the time that I was brought into Bible Baptist Church in one of the cities here in Metro Manila. And it was the first time that I was confronted concerning eternal security.

It has been a long journey. And I made a profession. There's no peace in my heart. There's no peace in my heart. And through the constant study of the word of God, the Lord led me into the true, redemptive work of the cross of Calvary.

And I know that very day that I believe the gospel, that Christ alone. I know that that day. Thank God for his... Thank God because the rest of my family got to know through the gospel alone, by grace alone.

Praise God. We are going to our first break right now. And if you have a question for Pastor Tomoteo Agates, please send in your emails to chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Please, as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Pastor Tomoteo Agates.

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Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the Shoals. Based in Alabama, it supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world. Anchored in Truth is in partnership with 36 church plants, as well as radio stations, theological seminaries, and various programs for unreached people groups.

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Church Planting Methods and the Philippine Religious Climate

Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest for the full two hours today is Tomateo Ogotis, who is a pastor in the Philippines, specifically the pastor of Grace Life Church in Quezon City in the Philippines, and he is also the director for Southeast Asia for Anchored in Truth Ministries, which is a ministry outreach of Grace Life Church in Muscle Shoals, Alabama.

Today we are discussing the unique challenges of planting churches in the Philippines. If you have a question, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Always give us your first name, at least your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. And we established how our Lord brought you to a saving knowledge of him. Now I'm really dying to find out a little bit more about how when you were going around challenging and participating in debates with Calvinist Christians.

I don't know if they were all pastors or theologians or what roles in the church they were involved in, but you were involved in debates. I'm assuming you mean these were formal, public, moderated debates?

Well, most of this debate with us or Brother Chris is done in person-to-person debates, not necessarily we do it in public. But the Calvinist preachers in the Philippines are quite aggressive, and so they would come and then I would be there to face them, but not necessarily a debate that is a dirty moderator and an organized one.

So what was it? Was there a certain subject that the Lord used in one of these confrontations that finally began to break that stronghold against Calvinism that you had? Or was it just a series of issues that were piling up that finally made you bow the knee to the fact that God is indeed sovereign over all things?

Well, I think. What really on my 13, if you would...

1348, right?

Ah, yes, yes. Truly a dynamite for me when the Lord opened my eyes on this verse, and when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as were ordained to eternal life, you know, before my conversion, before my transformation, I had this in my stand before was, I believe, and therefore was ordained.

But that is not what the Bible says, not the reason that people believe because they were ordained. That really changed my perspective. That was a big help on my understanding. And, you know, the issue is always about man is able to believe, man is able to understand.

But more and more that I read, for example, Romans 3, the more I go deeper into the study of Romans 3 about human depravity, the more I was convinced that it takes God's sovereign grace for salvation to make a person...

Yes, in fact, I have asked many individuals, many professing Christians who are not Reformed, I've asked them the very question, why is it that you came to have faith in Jesus Christ? And many of the folks that I'm sure you know, whether it's in your neighborhood or in your family, or just people that you've become acquainted with, many of them are in a world's understanding of things.

They are good and decent people. They are good parents. They may be even better parents than many Christians. They are faithful spouses. They are hard workers and really accomplished folks in whatever field or career where they have been working.

They are intelligent. They may even be humble. They may be even very self-aware and so on of their failures and so on. And yet, they did not come to Christ. Why is it that you did? And really, I don't believe...

I've never heard an adequate answer, and I don't believe anybody who is Arminian or non-Reformed can answer that question without giving credit to themselves. I don't think that it's possible to answer that from an Arminian worldview and an Arminian theology and an Arminian anthropology.

I don't think that it's possible to answer that question without saying, well, I was more aware of my sin, and I was more aware of my need of a Savior. Well, then you're saying it's something that was superior about you.

Well, I was just more understanding of what the Scriptures teach. I was more well-read in the Bible. Well, you're saying something better about yourself. You could go on and on and on, and there's really, I don't think, any wiggle room out of the position that they have placed themselves in.

Am I right?

Yes, sir. With Arminianism, you know, the human will is really superior. It all depends on yourself. But the Bible is so clear. For by grace are you saved. It's all by the grace of God. By grace alone, a person can be saved.

It is when it comes to salvation.

And when you mentioned Acts 13 -48, I immediately, well, actually, I guessed before you mentioned it, you mentioned Acts 13, but I knew you were going to head for 13 -48 because it's one of the most classic texts that I've never heard any non-Calvinist come up with a good answer for that text because of the ordo salutis in there.

It's just inescapable. But I even have a friend. I've known him for decades. He's a dear friend, originally from a Church of Christ background. I don't know if he would describe himself that way today, but he is not a Calvinist.

And he actually wrote a book. His name is Dr. F. Lagarde Smith. He's written some really excellent books, but he wrote one book called Troubling Questions for Calvinists. And at least he had the humility to put in the subtitle, and all the rest of us.

But he admitted in that book that he had no answer for Acts 13 -48. And he said that every attempt he saw or heard from a non-Calvinist had to involve eisegesis and really twist the text. To make it fit their beliefs.

He had enough humility and honesty to admit that in his book. So, let's go from there now to the climate. I don't mean how warm the weather is, or how humid or dry. But the theological climate of the Philippines.

I understand that it is a predominantly Roman Catholic country, if I'm not mistaken. Tell us about it.

Well, the Catholic influence in the Philippines is really very strong. We forget that Spain is called the champion of Catholicism. Because we've been under this 100 years, Catholicism is deeply influenced.

50 of the population are Catholic. The Philippines is labeled as the only Christian nation in Asia. And just several, maybe a year past, one of the Archbishops of Manila was appointed, I think, to the number three highest position in the Vatican.

His name is Luis Tadle. I feel it is for the evangelization of people. So, I'm citing this fact because I just want you to see how predominant the Roman Catholic Church is in the Philippines. Now, at present, watching the social media, I think the Catholic Church in the Philippines is becoming more aggressive in spreading this fallacious stuff.

And I'm pretty sure they can present a truth as very obvious, doctrinal as they are. And so, planting churches. Another thing, after the Spanish-American War, at the beginning of the 20th century, the American missionaries came in.

And part of the program was to divide the Philippine archipelago, then the northern part, Methodists were based on those areas, the Central Philippines, the Baptists, and then on the southern part of the Philippines were the Alliance Church, Prosper Gospel Church.

So, that's how the American military divided the Philippines. Now, here is another thing. And it's something important to the Philippines, and it really is now. Peace, silence, or gospel. It is the stand of our church, the Grace Life Church of Quezon City, and in partnership with Uncle Jim Struve, the true gospel.

Lord, because the Lord had the teaching, the word of God. I remember when we were about to start the work there, the two preachers gave them this, Whenever you have a chance, you share the word of God.

You share the gospel. When you're standing behind the pulpit, be sure that you are bringing the word of God. And I would testify that this church in Cabanatuan is the healthiest church AIT umbrella. And we thank God for His grace.

Praise God. Well, when it comes to actually church planting, how does it actually work out physically? And I'm sure it's not exactly a cookie cutter situation where everybody's situation is exactly the same.

But I'm assuming that perhaps in an area where there is no local church that is teaching the doctrines of sovereign grace, that you might have a Bible study start in someone's home and invite neighbors and so on, and somehow advertise in some fashion or manner the fact that you are meeting there.

Is that a typical way that you, when you begin a church plant, and then when enough people start gathering, you realize it's time to plant a church?

Yes, when the people would open their home, we will start a Bible study, a regular Bible study. Until they come to know or converted, we plant Bible studies around the city, home Bible studies. And then we look for a venue, for example, in Cabanatuan City.

Now I need the next spot. What we're doing is we have home Bible studies. We go out and then the people begin to plan more for a gathering. And so we look for a venue, something a church we use and renovate it to...

We're going to have you pick up right where you left off there when we come back from our midway break. Please be patient with us, folks, because the midway break is a bit longer than the other breaks because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC requires of Grace Life Radio the localizing of their programs, including Iron Sharpens Iron, geographically to Lake City.

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And also use this time to write down questions for our guest Tomateo Ogates about the unique challenges of planting churches in the Philippines. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence. We'll be right back with Tomateo Ogates after these messages.

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. My friend Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia once again for the G3 conference. This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd on the theme, Christ is supreme over all.

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I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love, Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word, and to enthusiastically proclaim Christ Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

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