June 8, 2017 Show with Karen Hodge on “Transformed: Life-Taker to Life-Giver” PLUS Armen Thomassian on “The Need for Pastors to Give Themselves to Prayer & the Ministry of the Word”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's.

Our host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of

humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on

this eighth day of June 2017.

I'm delighted to have two guests on today for the very first time on Iron Sharpens Iron

Radio.

For the first hour we have Karen Hodge, who will be discussing her book Transformed,

Life -Taker to Life -Giver, which she co -authored with Susan Hunt.

And then the second hour we have for the very first time Armin Tomasian, a

former atheist who currently pastors Calgary Free Presbyterian Church in

Alberta, Canada, and he's also one of the speakers at the upcoming

Foundations Conference in New York City, a conference run by Sermon Audio, and he's going to be

addressing the theme, The Need for Pastors to Give Themselves to Prayer and the Ministry of the

Word.

So make sure you stay tuned for the next hour as well.

But now I'd like to introduce to you Karen Hodge, the wife of Pastor Chris Hodge at Napperville

Presbyterian Church in Napperville, Illinois, and she is the PCA

Coordinator for Women's Ministry, and as I said she's going to be addressing her book Transformed, Life

-Taker to Life -Giver, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron,.

Karen Hodge.

Thank you Chris for having me on today.

I look forward to our time together.

As do I, and am I pronouncing, is it Naperville or Napperville?

It is Naperville.

Sorry about that.

I'm thrilled here.

No, it's great.

Well, as I typically do when I have a guest on for the first time, I'd like to

have you tell our listeners something about the religion of your childhood, if any,

and how the Lord eventually, through his providence, drew you to himself and saved you.

I love telling my story because really I am a child of the covenant.

There was never a time that I didn't know the Lord, and I was raised in a Christian home.

I grew up in South Florida, in West Palm Beach, Florida, and both of my parents were believers,

but I grew up in a Southern Baptist church.

In many of the writings and the teachings in that church, I would

not have called them Reformed at the time because I didn't really know that that's what I should call it, but I

realize now that God was shaping me and forming me through those writings and

teachings.

Fast forward, I met my husband and we went on to Reform Theological Seminary where

we began to grow in our Reformed understanding and grow in our faith together, and I've

been very privileged to be under great teaching, not only the fact that my husband is my

pastor, but many other good pastors throughout my life, and so that's really my faith

story in a nutshell.

And did you go to the RTS there in Orlando, or did you go to the one in North Carolina?

Right, and now there are RTS campuses everywhere, right?

In the beginning, they really were only in Jackson, and we went to the Orlando campus.

It was brand new, and we actually had R .C. Sproul and Richard Pratt come and teach at our

church, and I thought, okay, well, if they're the ones that are teaching there, then

that's where we want to go.

So it was just starting out and now has developed into a much larger campus with

many more professors there, but that was back in 1990, and it profoundly shaped

Chris and I, where our ministry would go.

Yes, in fact, one of the presidents.

Of one of RTS's campuses, Michael Kruger,

he was actually a member of the church where I'm a member now, Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

He was a pastoral intern, and then he later became a Presbyterian and now is

president, one of the presidents of RTS.

Oh yeah, I love Mike and Melissa Kruger.

In fact, next week we will have the PCA's General Assembly, and they are my keynote speaker for our

Wednesday luncheon for all our ruling and teaching elders wives, talking about

what it means to persevere in a ministry marriage, and so they're a great example of

a couple that love the church and minister so well together.

So I'm excited to be.

Able to see the Krugers next week.

Yes, and although I have interviewed Michael, I have never met him face -to

-face.

He was a member of Grace Baptist Church before I ever moved to Pennsylvania, but I am excited

that, God willing, he will be speaking at the G3 conference in Atlanta,

Georgia.

He is on a very long roster of speakers there, January 18th through the 20th, and I'm going to have an

exhibitor's booth for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio there.

So I'm looking forward to finally meeting Michael face -to -face, and he is also going to be on Iron Sharpens Iron

Radio again within the next several weeks.

Oh good.

Yeah, he's quite a brilliant individual.

He is.

And now tell us about Naperville Presbyterian Church.

I know that it is a congregation, as you just mentioned, in the PCA, known as the Presbyterian Church in America.

Tell us something more about Naperville Presbyterian Church.

All right, well Naperville is a western suburb of Chicago, and what drew

Chris here, my husband, about 10 years ago was the fact that this church was planted, what

they call in the PCA, as a flagship church.

It was one of the original churches in the PCA over 30 years ago, planted here to

plant other churches here in the Chicagoland area.

And as you probably know, it's a city of 9 million people, so we need a lot of churches.

And so we really see this as a gospel hub here in the western suburbs, and

we love being here.

It's a church of about a thousand people, and we're delighted to be here.

I find the Midwest, even though both my husband and I are both Southerners, we find the Midwest

a very warm place and a place that is receptive to the gospel.

These are people that are making a difference, not just here in Chicagoland, but in many cases around the world,

because Chicago is a sending place, and it's a place of influence, and we also

have the academic institution of Wheaton College that is closed, and so having professors and students who are part of our church

also shapes the culture of our church.

So we are...another thing that I'm glad to always tell people is that by God's grace, He's

continuing to make our church look more and more like heaven.

It's a multi -ethnic, multicultural church, and it really reflects Chicagoland.

We live in the fastest -growing Asian suburb in Chicagoland, and our church is

beginning, by God's grace, to reflect that.

Yeah, the Lord is definitely bringing about a revival, and has been bringing about great revival

amongst the Asian community here and abroad for quite a number of years.

It seems to be the primary place where there's revival going on.

And well, if anybody is interested in looking up more information about the Naperville Presbyterian Church, go to

npchurch .org, N -P for Naperville Presbyterian Church, dot

org, npchurch .org.

Well, tell us about this book, Transformed, Life -Taker

to Life -Giver.

Obviously, you've got to especially explain that subtitle, and how you and

Susan Hunt, who's a very well -known Reformed author, how you two got together to work on this.

Project.

Well, Chris, it might help by describing our relationship first, before I get to the

contents of the book.

Sure.

I was a newbie church planter's wife at 29, and I called the

office that I now am in charge of, and Susan Hunt had this same

position 20 years ago, and she answered the phone, and I said, I really said, in essence, could you give me

the 10 -step formulaic kit for starting a women's ministry from scratch?

But of course, that does not exist, and so it was on that day that I tell people, I

think my trajectory and how I related to women's ministry really was formed, because instead of

giving me some kind of formulaic answer, Susan invited me into a relationship with her.

She began to pray for me, and she began to equip me and come along side me, and to include

me in opportunities to learn and to grow, and then as the years went

on, teach alongside of her, so she has been a friend, and truly, in every sense of

the word, I mean, she really coined the term spiritual mother, and she has been my spiritual mother.

She has lived what she has taught in my life, and so we have a really sweet relationship.

So fast forward to about 18 months ago.

One of the things that PCA Women's Ministry has done historically in the past is bring together women,

and every time we've done this, we've done it in the southeast in Atlanta for conferences to equip about

every couple of years, and when I took the job, I think mostly because I live in Chicagoland,

and we have ministered on the edges, geographically speaking, of the PCA, I thought,

you know, a lot of times people think, you know, we're always going to the south in order to be equipped in our

denomination, so what would it be like if we actually went to the edges of our denomination

and put on conferences that were contextualized to those geographic regions, and so

in 2016, we did eight conferences called Transformed.

It comes out of Romans 1133 through Romans 12 to that passage

around North America, and we went to places like Los Angeles, Ontario, Philadelphia,

Dallas, South Florida, Birmingham, Alabama, you know,

in Chicago, Illinois.

I mean, we went to places where many times women don't have access to equipping,

especially in our denomination, and Nancy Guthrie, Melissa Kruger, and Courtney Doctor were our

speakers to teach through that passage.

Now, when Susan and I were having this conversation, I think a lot of times we can have

conferences that are one and done.

We go in and we do equipping, and they can be effective, but sometimes they don't go the

distance, and so Susan and I had a conversation.

What if we developed a resource that could be a natural follow -up to unpack that

passage of Scripture in a broader way for the women who come to the conference, and we

had close to 5 ,000 women come from those eight cities, yeah, and so what we

wanted to do was place in their hands a resource that they could go back into the context of their

local churches and unpack the truth of what spiritual transformation looks like in the context of

community, and thus the book came about.

So that's probably more than you wanted to know about the backstory, but it's

important because I think it flows out of the context of a relationship with

Christ, and Susan and I have with each other, and I think you get a feeling for that as you read.

Through the pages.

And this is a Gospel -centered study on Eve, Sarah, and Mary.

Tell us how specifically this addresses to each of those three main biblical characters.

Well, we start.

The book in 1 Peter, and the verse that references

holy women who hoped in God, and what does that look like for us as women

who hope in God?

What does transformation look like?

And then we take apart the lives of Eve, Sarah, and Mary in several chapters

for each one of those, and how God, through his relationship with them, as they listen to

him, their lives are transformed.

And so they are pacesetters, if you will, for what spiritual.

Transformation looks like.

I'm going to give our email address for our listeners.

It's ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N

at gmail .com.

If you have a question for our guest on the theme, Transformed, Life -Taker to Life

-Giver, that she co -authored with Susan Hunt, a Gospel -centered study on Eve,

Sarah, and Mary.

When you write in, please at least give your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence.

But if you are writing about a personal and private matter, I understand if you prefer to remain

anonymous.

Let me just read a couple of the endorsements for this book.

First, from Christina Fox, who has been on this program before.

Christina Fox says, We all want to change and transform our lives, theologically rich, Christ

-exalting, and based on our Helper -Life -Giver design.

Transformed will help you become what you behold.

And the aforementioned Melissa Kruger, who we just heard about moments ago, author of The

Envy of Eve and Walking with God in the Season of Motherhood, she wrote, Reading

Transformed is an opportunity to sit and learn from two gifted and godly spiritual mothers.

This book is a helpful encouragement to think biblically and live covenantally.

And we do already have a listener question.

Let's see, we have Jenny in Ben Salem, Pennsylvania.

And Jenny says, What are the greatest challenges the wives of church planters face,

domestically and overseas?

Is monetary funding still the number one issue?

I have a heart for church planting wives, having done that in my life.

And I would say funds are always a problem.

But the number one problem that I see is the loneliness and isolation that can

happen, especially when you're planting a church that's not near other churches.

And that's exactly what we did.

We did a scratch church plant in South Florida.

And when we're lonely and we're isolated, many times the enemy

can whisper lies that we're never going to be a part of meaningful community or that

nobody can really understand how we feel.

And I think one of the joys of being in community is having people speak into our lives and remind us

what is true, to preach the gospel to our soul.

And so as you see a church being built, you know, prayerfully, that's exactly what

happens, that God organically uses the planting of a church to build a gospel center community.

But many times for church planters wives, they have to reach out to sometimes people who are

in faraway communities, perhaps maybe somebody they went to seminary with or a faraway friend that can remind her what is

true, especially on those days when you feel like nobody understands and nobody knows where you are.

Now, as far as finances, I know that the PCA is, I believe if

I'm not mistaken, the largest of the evangelical Presbyterian denominations.

Is the denomination responsible for a lot of the funding of plants or do they still need to

raise a considerable portion from brothers and sisters in Christ,

not only within their own congregation of the plant, but from outside as well?

Plants are funded.

They're certainly not given money just from the denomination to do it.

They're funded through churches and presbyteries and then also individuals.

And so it's upon the church planter to raise those funds.

And so part of what they do when they go call to an area is they go through an assessment in our denomination,

but then they go into the fundraising stage.

And sometimes that can be really discouraging because there's a lot of good and excellent ways

for us to invest our money in kingdom ventures.

And so sometimes you get a no.

And so it takes a lot of faith to go out there and boldly ask

that God would provide the money.

That you need in order to plant a church.

Well, thank you, Jenny and Ben Settle in Pennsylvania.

And guess what?

You have won a free copy of Transformed, Life -Taker to Life -Giver by Karen

Hodge and Susan Hunt, a gospel -centered study on Eve, Sarah, and Mary.

This is compliments of our friends at Christian Focus Publications and also compliments of our friends at Cumberland

Valley Bible Book Service.

We'll be shipping that out to you at no cost to you or to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And remember their website, it's cvbbs .com, C -V for Cumberland Valley, B -B -S for Bible Book Service

dot com.

Actually owned and operated by Todd and Patty Jennings, members of the PCA.

And they have been faithful supporters of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and ship out all of our winners, their free Bibles and

books when they submit questions.

So keep your up for a package with a return address on the shipping label that says cvbbs

.com.

And we do have a listener, Bibi, in Cumberland County,

Pennsylvania, who says, is there anything commendable

that we can teach our children about Eve where she could be serving in any way

as a role model, knowing that she, along with her husband, were a part of the worst

tragedy that ever occurred in human history the fall?

Oh, great question.

Yeah, we like to blame Eve for everything.

Well, Adam did, certainly.

Adam did.

Yes, we see the great blame shift there.

But I think when we want to understand, especially what biblical womanhood

looks like, we go back to the blueprint.

And we actually see, before she's named Eve, we see woman there in the garden.

And I think we can learn so much about her divine design there, that she's an image bearer, that

in Genesis 2, Adam has named all the animals.

And there's only one thing that's not good.

And that is that none of those were sufficient for true biblical community.

And so, it's not good for him to be alone.

And so, God gives him woman as a helper.

And then, after the fall, this amazing thing happens.

Adam's capacity to name is restored.

And he calls woman now Eve, which means life or life giver, thus the

tagline of the book.

And we see that even though this declaration of death is

still ringing in the air, there is the capacity being

restored to bring life.

And I think one of the things that's amazing, and especially as we teach young women, especially those who

are not married or haven't birthed biologically, just like Eve at this point, she has not

had any children.

And yet, Adam says, you have the capacity to give life, spiritually

speaking, not just biologically speaking.

And then we see the cultural mandate to go and be fruitful and multiply.

And so, Adam and Eve, even after their exile from the garden, begin this journey.

And we see, part of what we show in the book is that as you walk through Genesis 1, 2,

3, and then 4, we see Eve's transformation.

In Genesis 4, Eve says, early on in the chapter, she says,

I have gotten a son with the help of the Lord.

And she finds out that Cain and Abel aren't the promised ones that are promised there

and that are going to actually crush Satan's head in Genesis 3, 15.

And so, then time goes on and you read at the end of chapter 4 that

God then has given her another son.

And so, this shift from I to God, this I orientation to God orientation,

I can't think of a better thing to tell a young person or any person my age, I need to remember this.

We live in a society that is captivated by I, me, mine,

individualism, autonomy.

And yet, when we have a Godward orientation, He is glorified.

And then we actually see a blessing in their family.

And so, I think there's a lot to learn from Eve, even though she does get blamed for a lot of

the foundational issues that we struggle with in our own sin and in our own heart.

And so, I hope that's helpful to you to think about how we come alongside young girls, especially.

Well, Bebe, you've also won a free copy of Transformed, Life -Taker to Life -Giver,

compliments of Christian -focused publications.

So, please keep your eye out in the mail for that.

And make sure you give us your full mailing address as well, so we can have Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service ship it out to you.

Okay.

You have in this book a number of women mentioned

throughout the book.

In fact, every chapter involves a woman.

You have Andrea, Lauren, Ellen, Helen, Chandra or

Chandra, Ronjanette, and Cindy and Abby.

Who are these women?

They're women in Susan and I's life.

And Cindy goes to church with me here at Naperville Pres.

And Ronjanette and Chandra are on my women's ministry team and so on and so forth.

And really, what those stories represent, hopefully, as a

woman reads those, she can slide her feet proverbially into their shoes and

think deep into watching these transformation stories that unfold in the book.

And so, these are women we've done life with, we've walked alongside, and we've seen how God has

transformed them from being a life -taker to being a life -giver.

I'm going to read a question from

Slovenia.

I'm going to read a question for you, and then I'll have you answer it when we return from our

station break.

Okay.

In fact, actually, I don't have your email address, so never mind.

I was going to email you the question as well, but I'll just read it to you.

Okay.

Kim in Slovenia, she says, as a missionary, most of the

women with whom I work do not have Christian husbands.

Please ask Karen what, in her experience, has been the best way to study God's word with these women

and encourage them in their walk with the Lord with husbands who do not share their faith

or are even openly hostile to their faith.

Any help or guidance you can share would be greatly appreciated.

And that, as I said, is Kim in Slovenia, and we'll have you answer that question when we return from our station break.

If anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question for Karen Hodge regarding transformed

life taker to life giver, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

And again, please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

Don't go away.

God willing, we'll be right back with Karen Hodge right after these messages.

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Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 pm eastern time on WLIE radio,

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in

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Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon eastern time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs

a pastor.

Welcome back.

This is Chris.

Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in, our guest for the first hour on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is Karen Hodge,

and she is discussing her book co -authored with Susan Hunt, Transformed, Lifetaker to

Lifegiver.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Karen, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com,

chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

Before the break, we had Kim in Slovenia who says,

as a missionary, most of the women with whom I work do not have Christian husbands.

Please ask Karen what in her experience has been the best way to study God's word with these women

and encourage them in their walk with the Lord with husbands who do not share their

faith or are openly hostile to their faith.

Any help or guidance you can share would be greatly appreciated.

Karen, do you have any help for her?

Sure.

First of all, I wanted to say to Kim that.

God sees you, and what you're doing is eternal, and it is very important.

And we want our worlds to change.

We want our worlds to be transformed, but it's not possible unless we renew our minds in God's word.

So sending women to His word is absolutely the best thing to do.

In our book, in chapter 2, we actually go through 1 Peter 2 and into the beginning of chapter

3, and there are some words that really redirect me and refocus me

when I think about what it means to live out my faith as a woman.

I mean, thankfully, my husband is a believer, but I work with a lot of women here, even in Chicagoland, whose

husbands are not believers.

And so rather than give you advice, I'll read you a little scripture here from 1 Peter 2, 21.

Of course, Peter is encouraging, in this context, believers to

submit themselves.

We don't like to talk about the S word, right?

Most women back off from that, because it gets right to the heart of the issue, our

unwillingness to surrender, or to yield, or to submit.

And yet, as Peter goes through this passage, he is unpacking what it looks like in

government, and in the home, and in the different relationships we have in the community.

But then he brings us to the reference point, and that's Christ Himself.

In verse 21, it says,.

For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to

follow in His steps.

And Peter goes on to say the way that Christ submitted Himself on the cross was

by continually entrusting Himself to His Father.

And then you go down several verses in chapter 3, and I think Peter shows us where

the rubber hits the road, in the most personal relationship in a marriage.

And then he says, in the same way, in the same way that Christ has entrusted Himself and

submitted Himself to His Father, wives be submissive to your own husband, so that even if any of them

are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, as they observe

your chaste and behavior.

In other words, as the Word of God transforms our lives, it will, by God's

grace, transform our relationships, especially when we think in terms of marriage.

And it can be done without words, because the gospel transforms our

attitudes, our actions, the way that we serve, the way that we relate,

and it can be even done without a word.

And so I would just encourage Kim to continue to disciple women, so that they won't give up hope

that the Lord might, in His good providence, work in the lives of their own husbands by seeing how the Word has.

Actually transformed them.

Amen.

Well, thank you, Kim.

And guess what?

You have also won a free copy of Transformed, Life -Taker to Life -Giver by our

guests Karen Hodge and Susan Hunt.

Thank you for providing an American address where your daughter lives, where we can ship this book

because that saves a lot on the shipping costs that our friends at Cumberland Valley

Bible Book Service graciously take care of.

So thanks for listening, and keep spreading the Word in Slovenia and beyond about Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio.

Now, this is not an unusual thing, these women of whom Kim speaks,

women with unbelieving husbands and even husbands that are hostile to their faith.

I don't know if it's still statistically true, but being in the Christian radio industry for

over 30 years, I have heard the phrase that women

far outnumber men numerically in the church globally.

Is that still a reality?

I don't even know if it ever was for certain, but is that a reality?

And this would obviously mean that there are many women out there who are.

Facing the same conflict.

I can't tell you statistically, but I can tell you anecdotally that when we go into churches,

women far outnumber the men, and thus the reason why I give my life to cultivating women's

ministry, a place where women can be encouraged and equipped to understand their

biblical design, but also what that means to live it out in the context of whether they're in a workplace, or a

home, or a neighborhood, as a mother, as a sister, as a friend, because now

more than ever, women need to be equipped and they need to be encouraged because the culture certainly

is not encouraging them to live a life like that.

Yes, and it's interesting that the Word of God commands older women

to train up the younger women in the faith, and that

possibly could be due to the fact that there were more women in the church even then,

but it certainly is interesting that that is a part of the design of the

church, that God himself, through his breathed -out Word, he wanted the older women.

To train up the younger women.

Yeah, I appreciate you saying that, Chris, because I think a lot of times women and men often perceive women's

ministry as being programmatic, and the reality of the situation is that when Paul

was giving these instructions to Titus, it was about what it meant to have a healthy church rather than have

some kind of program, and he said, if you want to have a healthy church and plant one, then men need to teach,

older men need to teach younger men, and older women need to teach younger women, and they don't need to just

teach them in content, but also to show them what

it looks like in the context of relationships, and so that's why we can sometimes gloss

over those parts of Scripture because they're so immensely practical, but they're also very

spiritual, and so that's really what women's ministry does.

It brings those older and younger women together, hopefully in an organic context

where they can be life on life, and that's when discipleship happens at its best.

Yes,.

And it's interesting that Paul also commends Timothy's

mother and grandmother for his being.

Trained up in the faith.

Well, I know a lot of women have made a difference in my life, including my grandmother and my mother, and

I love the fact that he makes that reference there, that he was profoundly shaped by women, so women's ministry actually

impacts young men in the church.

As well.

Amen.

We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who says, please forgive me if

this is a part of the

contents of Transformed.

I was just wondering if you believe that the impatience of Sarah and Abraham

to wait for a biological child was at the root of what we even

see now today of the conflict between the

heirs of Ishmael and the heirs of Isaac still in battle with one another and

involved in hateful, bitter strife.

Could this sin be all laid at the feet of Sarah and Abraham, not to take away

from the great heroes of the.

Faith that they were?

That's a great insight, RJ, and I think there's something to that, that our sin doesn't

just impact us, but it has the potential to have the collateral damage

to impact generations, and certainly Abraham and Sarah, at different times in the story,

decide to take matters into their own hands, and we see ultimately

that it wreaks havoc.

It wreaks havoc in a multitude of different ways, but ultimately when they yield to

God's best to actually bring Isaac into their life and then ultimately being

willing to be open -handed with him, to surrender him to whatever God's will is for his

life, shows that Sarah has been transformed in her thinking about who God is and his plan,

that we see that Abraham and Sarah are willing to even sacrifice their own son to follow

him, to follow their father God, and so I think it's an interesting insight that

much could be made about that, and it certainly, as we watch the news,.

It informs us, doesn't it?

Yeah, sure it does.

Well, thank you, RJ, and you have also won a free copy of Transformed, Lifetaker to Lifegiver.

Please make sure you give us your full mailing address in White Plains, New York, so we can have

cvbbs .com ship that out to you as soon as possible.

Well, if you wouldn't mind going through some of the unique stories

that you have in the book, let's start with Andrea's story and how these intertwine

with the lives of Eve, Sarah, and Mary, which are the primary focus of your

book.

So if you could perhaps start with Andrea's story,.

As you do in your own book.

Okay, well, maybe it will help to understand a little bit how the book is laid out.

We wanted to provide a book that gave women easy access to daily

time in the Word, so there's a thinking biblically section, and then there are five days of

devotions of living covenantally, and then as we look at each woman's individual story,

we see how their thinking has been changed to think more biblically about whatever

that particular topic is, and I can give several examples, but then what does it mean to actually live it out

covenantally, and by covenantally I mean in the context of relationships.

And so we see, for instance, in Andrea's story, she is a very successful physician

in Charlotte, North Carolina, about how God changed her perspective about

biblical womanhood, and we start there.

She, and particularly in terms of her understanding of what it means to be helper,

because of her success, she had people helping her with everything in her life, you know, whether it was child care

or house cleaning, and she didn't really see herself in particular with a calling to

be a helper or a life giver in the context of her own home with her husband and her children, and it was

through, right back to what we talked about with Kim, through discipleship, one -on -one discipleship with my friend

Connie, that she began to understand that this is the way God had designed her to be,

and that when she lived in that design and delighted in that design, then she would not only be transformed,

but her life would be characterized by joy and purpose and meaning.

And so that's one example, but there's another example I could tell you, because so many women

really struggle with infertility, and we mentioned Sarah earlier, and Chandra is a

member of my team, my women's ministry team, who particularly comes alongside

military spouses and chaplain's wives in the military, and because of she and her husband's

calling to the military, they move around a lot, and they have always wanted to be able to adopt,

but because they move so much, it's almost become impossible for them to adopt, and

she has been unable to have biological children, and so Chandra tells her story in the book,

on the chapter that we begin to talk about Sarah, who also struggled with infertility, about what does it mean

to understand barrenness, both

not only physiologically, but also spiritually, and even though it's

a difficult topic to talk about, Chandra in the end talks about how this is

something that has been changed from a burden to actually a blessing, because God has shown

her that she can be a life giver and a spiritual mother and multiply life into women on these

bases where God has called her to be, even though she's unable to have children herself,

and so these stories are meant to encourage women to examine their own

transformed stories, and so when we taught the book as a pilot in my own church, each week we had a

different woman share their story of transformation, and so I would ask them to bring in

three just physical items, perhaps a picture or a book or a memento that

marked a significant transformative experience in their life, and so for

instance, women brought in pictures of spiritual mothers or places that

they moved where God discipled them in a particular church, and they began to share their stories of

transformation, and what we saw in the context of my own women's ministry here at Naperville Press

is that we as women are more alike than different, and that God is in the business

of changing us and transforming us as we come together around his word, but we can give

him glory as we see how he uses sometimes seemingly mundane things or simple

things, he uses those in our lives to make the glorious difference, the radical difference that is transformation.

Amen.

Well, I want to make sure before we run out of time that you have several minutes

at least to summarize what you most want our listeners to have etched

in their hearts and minds in regarding transformed life taker to life giver,

so I wanted to give you some uninterrupted time to summarize the most important things you want to leave our audience with today.

Thank you for that.

Really, the hub of this book comes from Romans 11, 33 through

36 through 12 too, and for those of you who studied the book of Romans, you know it's as

if Paul has been climbing a great mountain and he's making a case about

how much we need God because there is no one righteous, no not one,

and all of the things that we've tried don't work, and the things we don't want to do we

do, and the things we know we should do we don't do, and he gets to

Romans 11 as if he has reached the mountaintop, and if I had to say one thing to women

it's this, that women are products not only of their doxology but their theology, and it

converges right here as we get to Romans 11, and it's as if he cannot contain

himself.

He says, oh the depths of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God, and in other words

they're unsearchable, they're unfathomable, we can't even wrap our mind around how

big God is, and he says he goes on to say for from him and through him

and to him are all things to him be the glory amen, and as if he can't even take a breath

he goes right into chapter 12 and he says therefore.

In other words there is, women are products of their doxology, and that's what we worship, the things

that captivate us, the things that we prize, we value, we hold up,

those things profoundly shape us, and I think we can take a look into women's lives by looking into their iPhone or

looking into perhaps their the way they spend their money and they spend their time to say these are the things

that we value and we prize, and what Paul is pointing us to is that nothing

should be more of a treasure or more of a prize to us than how unbelievable

God is, and then the logical next step is to give

our lives away and be transformed, and so he goes into chapter 12 and he urges us,

he compels us to hold nothing back, to offer our bodies as a living and a

holy sacrifice, and I love the fact that in this passage we look back in the Old

Testament and we see the idea of sacrificial offerings where animals are

brought, sacrifices there made for sin

offerings there in the temple where the animal, a perfect animal would be laid on the altar and it would be slain, but

parts of it would be used to feed the priest's family, but there's also the picture of a burnt

offering and that's the picture that Paul is pointing to here in chapter 12 where he's saying we're going to

lay this unblemished animal down on the altar and it's going to be totally consumed, nothing held back

and nothing used for any other purposes, and that's the life of transformation that God is calling

women to, to ultimately yield, surrender, and live open

-handedly and with an open life to him to say nothing held back.

I want to surrender my whole body.

I think sometimes we talk about giving God our heart, which is good, but it's not total.

He wants our mind, he wants our eyes, he wants our ears, he wants our mouth, he wants our feet,

he wants our hands, he wants it all, and what is the overflow of that?

It's to live out our theology, what we believe about God.

Paul has just shown us how big he is.

Now what does it mean to live that out?

And he, Paul there shows us the two contrasts that every woman faces when she gets up,

the path of confirmation, and the idea there is to be depressed into a mold, and

all the women that I work with understand this, that the world is trying to shape you and press you into a

mold.

They say, be like this, look like this, do this, be shaped by this,

and he says we don't need to be conformed to the world or shaped by the world, but rather we are to

be transformed by the renewal of our mind, and what is the purpose?

We see the so that there, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good, acceptable, and perfect, and then as you go on

into chapter 12, he talks about body life.

In other words, it's not meant just to be lived individually, it's meant to be lived covenantally or

corporately in the context of the body, and so my biggest encouragement to women

is to love God with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength, and then to

truly sacrifice it all, and love your neighbor as

yourself, and that's only possible when our minds are transformed by the renewal

of daily, minute by.

Minute, in his word.

Amen.

Well, as I told you before we went on the air, this was going to go by like a bullet, and

I would love to have you back on the program very soon, and perhaps after I email you a

calendar of our available dates for an interview, you can return to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, God willing,

and if you would like to be a part of our discussion again.

Well, I certainly would love that chance to have to talk to you, a chance to talk to you again, Chris, and of course I have lots

of very interesting friends in my life, so I can also.

Send them your way as well.

Great, and I know your website again is npchurch .org for Naperville, Presbyterian Church,

dot org.

For those of you in the UK who want to order the book, you can go to christianfocus .com,

christianfocus .com, and here in the United States, you can order from Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service,

cvbbs .com, cv for Cumberland Valley, bbs for BibleBookService .com,

and that's transformed Life -Taker to Life -Giver by our guests, Karen Hodge and Susan

Hunt.

Well, God bless you, Karen, we look forward to your return in the near future.

Thank you so much, Chris.

God bless you, and coming up next, don't go away, because we have joining us, God willing,

within the next few minutes, Armen Tamassian, former atheist who is currently pastor

of the Calgary Free Presbyterian Church in Alberta, Canada, and he is going to be

discussing the theme, the need for pastors to give

themselves to prayer and the ministry of the word, so don't go away, God willing, we will be

right back, right after these messages.

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Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune into A Visit to the Pastors' Study every Saturday from 12 noon

to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WLIE Radio, www

.wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the Pastors' Study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for A Visit to the Pastors' Study, because everyone needs

a pastor.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen, and the second hour of our program today features a guest

that I've also never had on the program before, Armen Tamassian,

former atheist and currently pastor of Calgary Free Presbyterian Church in Alberta, Canada.

But before I get into the discussion with Armen, I just have a few important announcements to make,

one of which includes an event that Pastor Tamassian will be speaking at, God willing.

That is the upcoming Foundations Conference in New York City, where I am

intending to attend.

This is the conference founded or organized by Sermon Audio, and the dates are

June 22nd through the 23rd in Manhattan in the Chelsea area of Manhattan.

And the speakers at this conference include Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, Dr. Joel Beeky,

Phil Johnson, the executive director of Grace to You, the global ministry of John

MacArthur, Todd Friel, the host of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio,

and also our guest today, Armen Tamassian and others.

If you would like to join me at the Foundations Conference, you can register at

thefoundationsconference .com, thefoundationsconference .com,

and that event is June 22nd through the 23rd in New York City.

Also, we have coming up after that, August 3rd through the 5th, the

Fellowship Conference New England is being held in Portland, Maine,

and the speakers at this event include Pastor Don Curran, the Eastern European Coordinator with

HeartCry Missionary Society, which is the organization founded by Paul Washer,

Pastor Mac Tomlinson, who's a dear friend of mine and author and pastor of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas,

Pastor Jesse Barrington, who's been on this program as well before, he is

pastor of Grace Life Church in Dallas, Texas, which is the sister church of Grace Life Church in

Lake City, Florida, who have a radio station that airs Iron Sharpens Iron Radio every day,

and also Pastor Nate Pickowitz, who is the author of Reviving New England and the

pastor of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire.

He's going to be a guest on Iron Sharpens Iron in the next couple of weeks.

If you'd like to register for that conference, go to fellowshipconferencenewengland .com,

fellowshipconferencenewengland .com, and after that, this fall, November 17th through the 18th,

at the Grace Bible Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania, the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals

is having their Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology on the theme for Still Our

Ancient Foe, obviously a line from that classic hymn by Martin Luther, A Mighty Fortress.

The speakers include Kent Hughes, Peter Jones, Tom Nettles, Dennis Cahill, and Scott

Oliphant.

If you'd like to register for that conference, go to alliancenet .org, alliancenet

.org, click on events, and then click on Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology for Still Our

Ancient Foe.

And then last but not least, the G3 Conference is returning to Atlanta, Georgia, January

18th through the 20th.

I will have an exhibitors booth at that event as well, and the theme is Knowing God,

a Biblical Understanding of

Discipleship.

And the speakers include Paul Washer, Stephen Lawson, Votie Baucom, H .B. Charles, Jr., Tim Challies,

Josh Bice, my dear friend of many years, Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, Tom Askell, who

is president of the Founders Ministries, Anthony Matheny, Michael Kruger, David Miller, Paul

Tripp, Todd Friel, Derek Thomas, and more.

If you would like to attend that conference, go to g3conference .com,

g3conference .com, and click on the 2018 G3 Conference, and you can register there.

And please, whenever you speak or communicate with anybody from any of these

events who are orchestrating these events, please let them know that you heard about the conference

on Iron Trepans Iron Radio.

And last but not least, I do have to remind you that Iron Trepans Iron Radio is in urgent need of

additional financing.

If you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to support your local church as you always

have been supporting them, please never siphon money out of your giving to your local church.

And if you are struggling to make ends meet, I don't want to siphon money off of your family's dinner table

either.

Please, though, however, if you love this program and enjoy it, and it's a part of your regular life, and

you want it to remain on the air, if you are financially blessed above and beyond your biblical

responsibilities to provide for your home and your church, I would love to receive a donation of any

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Go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click on support, and there will be an address where you can mail a

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a pastor or a leader in a parachurch ministry, or you're having a special event, please email me

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in the subject line.

And now we are welcoming your questions for Armen Tomassian,

Armen Tomassian, sorry about that, at chrisarnsen at gmail dot com, chrisarnsen

at gmail dot com, so we can have Armen answer your questions

on the need for pastors to give themselves to prayer in the ministry of the word.

And Armen Tomassian, as I said, is a former atheist, currently pastor of Calgary Free Presbyterian

Church in Alberta, Canada, and he's one of the speakers at the aforementioned Foundations Conference.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Armen Tomassian.

I'm sorry, brother, I had you on mute accidentally.

I'm just saying thank you, Chris, thank you for having me.

Oh, it's my pleasure, Armen.

And as we typically do with first -time guests on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, if you

could give a summary of your upbringing as a child in regard to the

religion of the household you were raised in, if any, and how God providentially,

sovereignly drew you to.

Himself

and

saved

you.

My

father,

oh, is

that

where John

Greer

presently is?

Okay,

well, yes.

Amen.

Amen.

And tell

us something

now about

the

Calgary

Free

Presbyterian

Church

in

Alberta,

Canada.

Amen.

And

I

love.

The preaching of many of the men in the pastorate with the Free

Presbyterian Church denomination.

And it's not just because of the Ulster accents, it's actually because of the power

and conviction with which many of them preach.

In fact, every one that I've ever personally heard, I've been absolutely awestruck by the

power behind that pulpit when a man from the Free Presbyterian Church rises up

there to preach.

And as I mentioned earlier, I've mentioned the name John Greer.

He's a friend of mine who I invited to preach at the church where I was a

member before moving to Pennsylvania.

John Greer preached at a conference upon my invitation at the Grace Reformed

Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York.

And he was actually, John, a client of mine.

He was on the radio every week broadcasting

through WMCA 570 AM in New York when I was working there.

And John was at that time the pastor of the Free Presbyterian Church of Malvern, Pennsylvania.

So I really have gotten to know and love a number of these brethren.

And from what I understand of the Free Presbyterian Church, it's a very unusual denomination

in that Presbyterian is only the description of the church government or

polity because you actually have men in regard to the ordinance of baptism who are Baptists

as well as those who are paedo -Baptist in that denomination.

All right.

What else can you say about the Free Presbyterian Church?

Our church

started in 1951, really coming

out

of...

It came

out

of

a...

Yeah, just went home to be with the Lord about, what, a year ago or so?

Okay.

...on

his

life.

There's

no P.

Nicholson.

No.

It

rubs

off,

Chris.

I can imagine.

And what a humble brother as well, humble and gracious as well as powerful

in his oratory gifts and his knowledge of the Word and commitment to it.

And, well, if you ever happen to speak to John, tell him.

Chris Arnzen from Iron Trip and Zion Radio says hello.

And I want to have him as a guest on my program as well very soon.

You should contact him.

Yes, I think I will.

You have been the catalyst for me remembering to do that.

Yes.

Yes.

In fact, I've shared some of the Vimeo

recordings or videotapes, however you want to say it.

I'm probably outdated in my language.

But some of the worship services from the Balomina Free Presbyterian Church, I have shared those

sermons of his with others.

Well, interestingly enough, we have a listener, Jenny from Ben Salem,

Pennsylvania, who's not actually addressing the topic in her question, but she is addressing your

parents indirectly.

I don't even know if she knew of this because she, I don't know if she knew of the

religious differences of your parents when she wrote this because I received this

before you went on the air.

But Jenny in Ben Salem, Pennsylvania, says, when there are married couples with differing

religious backgrounds and neither imposes their children to follow a religion,

isn't this breeding grounds for atheism?

It certainly is the case for many of my relatives who profess atheism or the rare occasion

agnosticism.

And because of it, it is very difficult to reason with atheists.

At least agnostics are slightly more open to discussing religion.

Do you have any comment on Jenny's.

Uh

question

slash

comment?

To

latch

on

to.

We're

going

to

our

final

break

right

now,.

And if anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question for Armen Tamassian on the need for

pastors to give themselves to prayer and the ministry of the word, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We are going to be right back, God willing, right after these messages with Armen Tamassian and more of our

discussion.

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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia,.

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If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

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We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

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Welcome back, and my apologies again to my dear friend, Pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox

Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square, New York, who hosts a visit to the pastor's study.

I cut his ad short accidentally, and his closing line

was, because everybody needs a pastor, and that's the truth.

If you just joined us, our guest today for the second hour is Armin

Tamasian, and we are discussing the theme, The Need for Pastors to Give Themselves to

Prayer in the Ministry of the Word.

If you'd like to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

We have a listener in Indianapolis, Indiana, who is a member of the Free Presbyterian

Church congregation in that area, Aaron, who asks, In your experience with the

Free Presbyterian Pastors, do you believe it is their extraordinary devotion to prayer and preaching

and studying God's Word that makes Free Presbyterian Pastors faithful to preaching the importance of

holy living and not just playing church and just adding Christ to the life?

It has been such a blessing and eye -opener to sit under men who preach more strongly

against worldliness like you do, and the Lord has transformed me since my years

with the Free Presbyterian Church for that reason.

Do you credit prayer and devotion to preaching the Word?

And.

Yes,

that's

a

question

for you.

We

don't

always do

it.

Northern Ireland

is

good

because

it was in

our life.

Amen.

Well, thank you,

Aaron, and

keep spreading

the word about Iron

Trump and Zion.

Radio in Indianapolis, Indiana and beyond.

In fact, you can include some of

the elements in a sermon or even routinely in your preaching,

some of the elements that Aaron included in her comment -slash -question,

preaching against worldliness and things like that.

If you do not have the humility of the Holy Spirit, you could be nothing more than a

Pharisee on the other end of the spectrum.

You could really just be pointing out the sins of others that you do not personally

participate in, or perhaps you do privately even within your heart and mind, if not

externally or physically, and that could be a great danger, too.

There are many within the fundamentalist movement, I would think, that unfortunately are guilty of that, where they're

preaching against worldliness, but sometimes the gospel may be absent from those

messages.

The mercy and grace of God may be absent.

It could be nothing more than someone scolding you or the world

outside the four walls of your church, those outside the four walls of your church, for their

immoral activity, but it may be devoid of all grace, mercy, and

humility on the part of.

The

preacher.

Isn't

that

correct?

We

have

Murray

in Kinross,

Scotland, who asks,.

In the Free Presbyterian Church in Canada, approximately what proportion of your Sunday congregation would

come out to the midweek meeting, and is there now a steady flow of men

preparing for the ministry?

I was disappointed to learn that the college in the States did not have a graduation

service this year, because no one was graduating, and that's Murray in Kinross,.

Scotland.

Do

you

have

any

comments?

I

speak

for

my

own

when I came

here

to God

for him.

They were praying about that

matter.

Amen.

Well, thank you,

Murray in Kinross, Scotland.

Please.

Continue to spread the word about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in the UK and beyond.

And a Christian in Suffolk County, New York, confirmed what you said

earlier, Armin, that Ian Paisley went home to be with the Lord in September of

2014, so that would have been three years ago, nearly three years

ago.

Well, this theme that you are speaking on, I assume that you

think this is a prevalent problem, that pastors are not giving themselves

sufficiently to prayer and ministry of the word.

I'm assuming you're not just preaching or intending to preach to the choir and tickle

anyone's ears.

I'm assuming you think this is a serious problem in the church, is it not?

Right.

Amen.

And I

don't

mean to, in

any

way,

shape,

or

form,.

Scold or demean your congregation at all, because it is a small church and so on,

but don't you think that all too often, I mean, you may feel uncomfortable answering this, but

don't you think all too often that, especially in the smaller churches, men

are not rising up to do those things, those very things, like the

duties of the diaconate or duties of even the caretaker of the church,

mowing lawns, painting the building.

And I'm not saying that a pastor or elder should never dirty his hands with those things, but when

somebody is doing all of those things, don't you think that that congregation really needs to be

lovingly rebuked because they are indeed, perhaps unconsciously,

robbing their shepherd from the prayer and the ministry of the word that

is really what he is primarily meant to.

Do?

Yes.

That's

right.

Full of

marfas

and

shepherds.

Amen.

And

going

back

to

what.

We were talking about earlier, about the need for humility in a pastor, as well as for

unwavering commitment to truth and righteous indignation

and warning about the evils of sin, but humility needs to be there as well.

And don't you think that if a pastor is giving himself to prayer, that

just because of the very fact that that man, when he is humbling himself before a sovereign, righteous

God on a regular basis, if he is doing so with a true

spirit of a regenerate man, of the spirit of humility,

of a sinful creature bowing before a perfectly holy and righteous God and

gracious God and merciful God, that the humility would, you would think,

flow from that.

So then when he rises to his pulpit, he is already in the framework or the mindset

of a humble, sinful creature being used

to save souls and to draw the lost unto

the Lord and to give a warning and rebuke to the rebels

and to give praise, honor, and glory to God.

When he realizes that he is just a sinful creature being given that awesome task,

that the humility would be there if the prayer was also a regular part of that

pastor's life.

We

have

Arnie

in

Perry

County,

Pennsylvania, who wants to know, have you ever had to be

in any way.

Concerned about the Canadian government from censoring what you are preaching and teaching?

Because I understand that in Canada, you could be very seriously fined for opposing

things like.

Homosexuality.

Amen.

Now,

as

I've been

saying,

you

are

going to

be one of

the

featured

speakers

at.

The Foundations Conference, the conference in New York City this June 22nd, the 23rd being run

by Sermon Audio.

Is this your theme at the conference that we have been discussing today on pastors

giving themselves to prayer and the ministry of the word?

So I was trying

to get the

people

on the same

page.

So I'll begin with

the first one.

Amen.

Well, as I was mentioning earlier, if anybody would like to register for this conference, and I

would look forward to meeting you there as well if you do, so make sure you find me and greet me

at the Foundations Conference, June 22nd through the 23rd.

If you would like to find out more about this conference or register for it, go to

thefoundationsconference .com, thefoundationsconference .com.

If you could now, in about two minutes time, summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today,

Pastor Armon.

Amen.

Well, if

anybody would

like

to visit the

church

where Pastor

Armon

Tomassian

pastors,.

If you're visiting Canada or if you already live in Canada, especially obviously in the Alberta

area, you can go to calgaryfpc .ca.

Calgary is spelt C -A -L -G -A -R -Y, F -P -C for Free Presbyterian Church,

dot C -A.

And once again, don't forget about the Foundations Conference where Pastor Armon

Tomassian is one of the many speakers.

Go to thefoundationsconference .com, thefoundationsconference .com.

Do you have any other contact information you care to give Pastor.

Armon?

Great.

Well, you have an open door here,

Pastor Armon, to be a guest.

And in fact, if you.

Want to hold on.

After the program goes off the air, I'd like to schedule you for another interview.

My pleasure.

I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write in questions.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.