Hebrew Israelite History: The Fractured 90s

Alpha & Omega Ministries

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

Comments are disabled.

00:34

What's up, y 'all? Welcome to the dividing line. I kind of want to call it the DL the whole time.

00:40

I like that. DL, you know? My name is Vocabalone. There is no Dr. James White in the studio today.

00:47

We're missing him, but I think this is gonna be a historic episode. I hope that he enjoys it, but most of all,

00:55

I'm praying that this episode is used by the Lord to bless folks. In the studio, Chillin' with Rich.

01:01

What's up, Rich? Always good to see you. And let me give a brief introduction to today's very special show while we're doing all of that.

01:09

A little while ago, the Lord brought to my attention a movement happening in our cities called the

01:14

Hebrew Israelites. Sometimes people call them different names. We're just gonna call them the Hebrew Israelites, a name

01:19

I think they're okay with. And over time, I took more and more note of it, mainly because of the interesting mixture of doctrines and the effect it was starting to have on the minds of a lot of my friends, on the minds of people

01:35

I come across with, and also out in the streets when you're walking out and about and you hear somebody shouting, all of that.

01:43

So the Lord has opened up a pathway for me to really begin to kind of dig in and try to understand this community better, the

01:50

Hebrew Israelite community. I've learned a lot since I've done this. There's things I would have done differently if I would be starting right now.

01:58

But here we are. And I'm very thankful to Alpha Omega Ministries and James White because he heard some of the stuff

02:05

I was doing and said, hey, let's talk to that guy. And the guy that I'm talking about, of course, is

02:10

Elder Rakah, G -O -C -C. And what's happened is there's just been a new light that has shined on this very important issue.

02:19

And I'm thankful that the Lord has done it that way. He's using imperfect vessels, but I'm glad it's happened.

02:25

I'm glad that apology was down. I'm glad that a lot of people kind of took a step, took a risk in something they didn't really know about.

02:31

They weren't really sure people would even be interested in if it was relevant, but they took a chance. And now we see it is relevant.

02:38

It is important. And so I'm gonna read a scripture out of the King James Version from Titus, and then

02:43

I'm gonna bring up our guest today and explain what we're doing in relationship to this issue that has been popping up, especially over the past couple months, sort of in the apologetic world, which is discussing the claims of the

02:56

Hebrew Israelites. Today we're gonna discuss their history in a new way that I don't think has ever been done before.

03:02

Titus chapter 3 verses 8 and 9. This is a faithful saying, and these things

03:09

I will that thou affirm constantly, so it's supposed to do this, frequently and confidently, that they which have believed in God, this is a way to say those who have believed in the gospel, might be careful to maintain good works.

03:24

That means it's something we're thinking about and doing constantly. So the belief comes first, notice, but then there's an attention in our life to good works.

03:32

We don't do away with good works. We believe, but then the belief produces good works. Next verse.

03:39

These things are good and profitable unto men. And even in that little verse, there's a refutation, I think, of some of Hebrew Israelite theology, because the implication throughout the book of Titus, and in this verse 8 especially, is they're good and profitable for all kinds of men.

03:54

All men. You see that? Now, what's really best and profitable for men? To know the truth.

03:59

To know Christ. To be free from sin. To embrace the gospel. And here's why I wanted to read this. Listen to verse 9, everyone.

04:06

But avoid, that means like it's something's in a road and you real quick, right? But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law, for they are unprofitable and vain.

04:21

So one thing you go for, which is the gospel, the other thing you avoid. Foolish questions.

04:26

Honestly, I think it's a foolish question how you pronounce a certain paleo

04:32

Hebrew word based upon a speculation of how you've reconstructed an alphabet that you'd have no access to the vocalizations to.

04:39

That's a foolish question. And genealogies, Hebrew Israelite theology, is all caught up in genealogies.

04:46

In fact, they preach the gospel of the 12 tribes chart. Now listen, I know some Hebrew Israelites are like, vocabs already tripping.

04:53

Doesn't he know we're not all the same? Yes, I do. But I do know that if you call yourself a Hebrew Israelite, generally speaking, the key thing that drives you together is this idea of the 12 tribes.

05:04

And there's a primacy put in your theology. If you have the gospel first, praise God. But a lot of y 'all got the gospel way back here, or the gospel is so misdefined it's no longer the gospel.

05:16

And contentions. Another translation says dissensions. This whole thing brings dissension.

05:22

It says, you can't even make it into the kingdom except as a servant. Or it says, you can make it into the kingdom but only if you're underneath me because of my ethnic heritage and strivings about the law.

05:35

Or sometimes they'll say quarrels about the law. It's like the old -school Judaizers sit around talk all day about what you can and cannot do on the

05:43

Sabbath, this type of thing. You got some similar debates, man, going on like how to wear your fringes and this and that.

05:50

It gets real tedious and you lose sight of Christ. And that's why

05:55

Paul says, for they are unprofitable and vain. So listen, even if you don't agree with what

06:00

I'm about to do and say today, it's because of passages like this why this is passionate to us. Because we see that and we see something that's flipping the order of priorities for God's people.

06:11

So with that, I want to bring up my man, Kaddash. Kaddash is calling from a secret undisclosed location.

06:21

And he is a former Hebrew Israelite insider who is gonna help just do a walkthrough of the timeline, but especially in the

06:29

Hebrew Israelite history of the, what I'm gonna call, the fractured 90s.

06:35

Welcome to the Dividing Line, Kaddash. What up, man? Greetings, greetings. Thanks for joining us.

06:42

So yo, man, you want to comment real quick on anything I've said already and maybe give a brief induction of yourself before we jump into this thing?

06:51

Sure, I mean, no comment. I just concur with everything that you put forth.

06:57

And my involvement with the Hebrew Israelite organization was throughout the 90s, very much in its heyday, where it emerged out of the, you know, sort of the, you know, kind of out of the dark and primarily in Harlem, New York, and started going public with the street camps,

07:18

Times Square, 34th Street, and a lot of that stuff. Where it really came out into the limelight, really, before the advent of the

07:26

Internet and, you know, began to encounter, you know, people out there on the streets and just started to make their waves, pretty much.

07:37

That was the era that I got involved. Now, a lot of times, Hebrew Israelites don't really seem to have an awareness.

07:43

Now, I'm not saying everybody, but a lot of dudes, especially the newer dudes, of their history, and they kind of act like this has always been there.

07:49

Now, we're not really focusing on the old, old school stuff today, but we don't want to totally neglect it, so briefly say something about what you know about a man named

07:58

Abba Bivens and his importance in this. Yeah, well, he goes back.

08:03

He goes back to the origins of what became UPK. For everybody, that's

08:10

Universal Practical Knowledge, and a lot of times people just say the UPK because the first two parts of the acronym are sometimes changed, either

08:19

IS or IC, so when you hear UPK or UPKer, it's someone affiliated with that stream of the movement.

08:25

It's very Harlem, not as much Chicago. There's sort of a different stream there. We're really kind of focusing, as of now, on the

08:31

New York side. Is that correct? That's right. A completely different route out there in Chicago.

08:38

Maybe, in some ways, some healthier tendencies. I'm not saying it's all good, but from what I can ascertain, some healthier tendencies, perhaps?

08:45

I think so, definitely. I've spent time with those guys out there, as well, upon my leaving the school, but as far as Abba Bivens, he was the teacher of,

08:57

I believe it was the Israelite School of the Torah at that time, and he would have been

09:04

Yaqub's teacher. Who's Yaqub? Yaqub is

09:10

Ariar's father, the man that is credited for the Twelve Tribes Chart and Sign, the

09:17

Lasharon Kodosh... Which is that alternative Hebrew? Exactly.

09:23

Okay, now what's the time frame, in general? When we go back to Abba Bivens, in general, we're in the late 60s?

09:31

Oh, yeah, we go back about that far. Yeah, certainly. That's before I was born, but yeah, for certain.

09:42

There's a bunch of stuff that happens. You want to jump right into the early 90s?

09:50

Now, I mean, there's a lot of stuff happening before then, but basically, things kind of grew, then they kind of split, but I mean, when do you jump on, and what was the stuff that happened right before you jumped on that you were aware of that was important when you talk about Hebrew Israelite history?

10:08

Yeah, I officially joined the school in about 95, so the second half of the 90s.

10:16

Well, to go back before that, you had the one solid school, which was ISUPK, Israelite School of Universal Practical Knowledge.

10:24

My experiences with them were just, you know, when I would be strolling through Manhattan, Midtown, you know,

10:31

I would come across the camps, had no idea who they were. I thought they were something related to ex -Klan at first, standing out there with the big staffs and decked out.

10:41

For those who don't know, ex -Klan is a mid -90s kind of what you might call Afrocentric hip -hop group, but all right,

10:47

I can see you say that, all right. Yeah, yeah. A few years later,

10:53

I ran into a brother who I used to do music with, and hadn't connected in a couple of years, and next thing

11:02

I'm seeing him, you know, with a big star of David on, massive sideburns, he's got a completely different demeanor, and so we had a conversation.

11:11

All of a sudden, he looked like the Jewish Shaq, or what? Yeah, yeah. I meant

11:17

Shaft, that's my pronunciation, Jewish Shaft. Right, right, right. All right, so what's he say?

11:23

What's he say when you talk to this man? Well, it was actually in a hip -hop nightclub, and I bumped into him, we had just finished performing, and I said, wow, what are you into?

11:35

Because I was always a seeker. I used to like, you know, walking through through New York City and checking out what

11:41

I used to call the different sidewalk religions, right? The Muslims, the Faithful Senators, all these different groups,

11:47

Rastafarians, whatever you have, and so I was curious what he was into, and I had asked him, what are you, a

11:54

Rasta now? Because I saw the big shield of David, you know, and you know, he was like, hell no, you know,

12:00

Haile Selassie's a fraud, he's not a real Jew, and you know, from right there, we started going into the scriptures, he started showing me

12:06

Deuteronomy 28, and I had, you know, kind of from the beginning, man, hook, line, and sinker,

12:13

I had just bought right in. What appealed to you about, like, his style of exegesis and the way he moved through, you know, what grabbed you?

12:21

If you could take yourself back, what was it? Yeah, just the boldness, confidence, and what he believed.

12:31

I had never seen anybody represent the Bible with that type of, you know,

12:36

I was used to churches, etc., and that sort of thing, you know, I had never seen anyone appear to have a command of the scriptures like that.

12:46

He was citing a lot of verses that, of course, you wouldn't talk about in church. Right. A lot of things out of the Old Testament, and looking at things in a, you know, what seemed to be a deeper insight into the

12:56

Bible, and I was intrigued, you know? I was absolutely intrigued by it, and wanted to know more, and kept kind of coming around, and learning, and learning.

13:04

It took me about two years to finally visit the school in my area, and originally,

13:12

I had went to the school. We, you know, me and a few brothers, a handful of brothers, had looked at some of their claims, and found it, you know, what about this issue right here?

13:22

What about the Gentiles? Are they just reading right over this? And so, it occurred to me...

13:28

Hold up, can you give it, I know what you're talking about, but can you give an example? So, here's what happened, you're kind of getting familiar with some of the claims made by Hebrew -Israelite proponents, and you're seeing things in the scripture as you study them that you feel are incongruent with the main thesis.

13:42

Now, what are some examples of some things you felt like were bumps that you wanted to bring up or talk about?

13:48

In the Old Testament, the laws of the stranger. Explain, explain a little bit if you could. Okay, you have, let me have my e -sword here.

13:59

Well, I mean, you don't gotta, you know, quote, I'm just trying to give people an idea of things that don't match up, you know.

14:05

Right, so we're looking at, I was looking at verses, passages like Isaiah 56, "'Let not the son of the stranger say the

14:13

Lord has utterly separated me from his people.'" It said, the

14:18

Lord said, "'I will give them a name in my house better than that of sons and daughters.'"

14:24

Passages like, "'Thou shalt not abhor an Edomite.'" You know?

14:30

Right. You see that? There's a new meme that's like, hey, it has a

14:35

Hebrew -Israelite dude, and he's like, "'Follow the commandments, follow the law,' and then it goes to the commandment that says, "'Do not abhor an Edomite,' and then it shows the

14:41

Hebrew -Israelite looking like, huh? Now what

14:47

I've heard is dudes basically say that's been abrogated in some way, for everyone to understand. They said that back then, that was the retort that they had given me.

14:55

Our first trip to the school was to try to, we believed a lot of what they were saying, but we also had some some issues with it.

15:03

Right. Passages in the New Testament about the Gentiles. And so our first trip there was to kind of discuss that.

15:13

Right, okay. How'd that go? How'd that go? It didn't,

15:20

I think we were just sort of impressed with their presentation. Okay. And something clicked in my mind, and I said to myself, the verses, the passages on Gentiles in the

15:32

Scriptures are so prevalent and littered everywhere throughout the New Testament.

15:38

They have to be seeing, they have to be getting around this some way, and something clicked in my head where I said,

15:45

I guarantee you what they're going to say. I told a brother that I was going to the school, I said, I guarantee you what they're gonna say is that these are not real

15:53

Gentiles. These are Israelites in a Gentile state of mind. Right. And sure enough, that's exactly what they said, you know?

16:02

But yet you joined, right? And we kind of stuck around. We didn't, you know, we kept coming up for a little while, and hearing the other parts of the breakdowns, and just being impressed with all these, you know, young men that were zealous for, you know, what we believed to be, you know, the

16:19

Lord's truth, the Lord's commandments, and stuff like that. Well before we get into some of the craziness with maybe the splits and the personalities, maybe share up what you might call a positive or warm memory, you know what

16:32

I'm saying? Because sometimes people look at this as all bad, but you see a lot of these groups, man, got a real brotherhood and kinship, and I remember you brought that up.

16:40

I'd like you to hear a little bit, kind of share the inside of some of the good side of what it's like to be around this joint.

16:47

Right, right. Well one of the things, it was sort of like joining a gang. You had, you know, you were welcomed into a family, you know, and the activity was far beyond, it was nothing like going to church.

17:00

Right. You know, brothers were purposeful, they were disciplined, they were a unit, they were organized, you know, you had, you know, like I said, you just, you got into this family of brotherhood that, you know, it was a very exciting thing.

17:18

I said before, when you looked at the book of Acts, and you saw the constant movement of the disciples, the bonds that they had, they were always about their business.

17:28

It wasn't something that you did part -time, like, you know, going to church on Wednesday night, Bible studies on Sunday morning, and then you kind of went back to your life.

17:36

Your life pretty much revolved around the school. Right. Some of us were there every day. And you said it was like, if you got a new pair of socks, dudes knew about it.

17:46

Right, right. But people gotta understand, you know, that's a certain level of community, and you shared one other thing about Francis Schaeffer with a new convert to Christianity.

17:57

Can you share that briefly? Because I want people to see some of the appeal. Oh, it's Francis Chan? My bad, I thought it was Schaeffer. Okay, Francis Chan.

18:03

Yeah. Well, it was a short clip where Francis Chan had talked about a young gang member who had joined the church, and after a while he stopped attending.

18:13

Yeah. And so a couple of brothers from the church decided to pay him a visit and see how he was doing, and they asked him what was wrong.

18:19

And, you know, his response was that, he said, you know, when I was in the gang, and I got jumped into the gang,

18:25

I had a family. Right. We were constantly together. It was ongoing, 24 -7.

18:32

You know, if I wasn't with them, they were with me. And, you know, it was like a pride, you know?

18:38

Yeah. So he said, I'm sorry. He said, I, you know,

18:43

I just had it wrong in my mind. I didn't realize it was just, you know, Wednesdays and Sundays, like I had said.

18:49

Yeah. And Francis Chan's response to that was like, no. He said, you didn't have it wrong.

18:55

He said, the church has got it wrong. Right. The point he was trying to make is that we need to be that community.

19:02

So before we switch over, man, I want people to stop for a second, you know, instead of just mocking people or however you want to get, and realize that there is a gap a lot of times in our evangelical communities and fellowships.

19:19

Sure. And there's things missing a lot of times. And so you can see that there's a need there.

19:26

And a group like the Hebrew Israelite, which we believe has doctrine, has some other things.

19:32

Yeah. Okay. Is that part of the package would often cause you to overlook some of the downside?

19:38

I think so. I think so. Even if something clicked in your head, and I don't think those brothers are breaking that down right.

19:45

Right, right. You know, there was, you know, you valued the brotherhood there so much that a lot of brothers, you know, they wouldn't say that straight up in the environment there, but you might catch someone to be honest with you on the side.

19:57

Yeah. You know, but nobody was going to go against the grain, for sure. Well, what were some of the things that were being taught?

20:04

And here's what I really want to start focusing on. What were some of the developments you saw firsthand?

20:11

Everyone, this is, pay attention, so we're switching a little bit from personal to kind of more broad stuff going on, but what did you see, some of the doctrinal developments and changes that were happening, sort of right in front of your eyes?

20:23

Yeah. I came in at an interesting time. Right. Because it was right at the cusp of the division between Masha 'a and Ariar.

20:32

Who was Masha 'a? Masha 'a was, he was one of the seven heads of the school.

20:39

Ariar had somehow dubbed him the reincarnate. These brothers believed heavy into reincarnation.

20:45

Right. Now, this is important, everybody. Reincarnation in most camps, I think G .O

20:50

.C .C. rejects it, but reincarnation in a lot of camps is very, very important to them. And kind of a logical corollary, if you think about it, is, well, maybe we could figure out, like, who's who?

21:01

So, Masha 'a was a dude who got dubbed as King David. Now, who was

21:07

Ariar? Who was Ariar supposed to be? Ariar was, as they would call him, John the

21:12

Revelator. Okay, all right. He was John the Revelator. Okay. The very apostle

21:18

John. Masha 'a also supposedly had several reincarnations. He was

21:23

Moses, he was also, you know, King David, and he was the apostle

21:29

Peter. Dang. This is kind of like Sir Pintor. Yeah, this guy carried on. He wore a lot of big hats, you know.

21:34

Yeah, check it out. If you've ever seen G .I. Joe, okay, in the 1986 series, they wanted a new leader because Cobra Commander was, like, dropping the ball, right?

21:45

And so, Dr. Mindbender and Destro went behind Cobra Commander's back and they combed the tombs of all of history's greatest military leaders, such as Genghis Khan and Vlad the

21:55

Impeller and Napoleon, etc., etc., snagged their DNA and then put it, sort of, into a genetic blender and made

22:03

Sir Pintor, who's supposed to be, like, the ultimate Cobra Emperor, you know, he's Julius Caesar and all these other dudes. And this sounds like what

22:09

Masha 'a got going on a little bit. Interesting. I'm sorry. There's a couple of y 'all that get that reference.

22:15

But, okay, so that's who Masha 'a is supposed to be. We know who Ariar is supposed to be. Now, what's going on with those dudes, though?

22:21

Well, it was a mistake that Ariar made that I think he later came to regret because he ascribed

22:27

Masha 'a more authority and power than himself. Right, because Masha 'a is King David and Moses.

22:32

All right, okay. There were certain verses in the Bible they would use, and the people will seek to their king.

22:40

They also use one of the passes in Deuteronomy 28 about your king will go with you into captivity.

22:46

Yeah, you know, this is a little side note, but I just noticed one of the problems with the interpretation of Deuteronomy 28 is something

22:53

I just saw, you know, our mutual friend point out on the Facebook group. He was saying what king went with the folks during the transatlantic slave trade.

23:02

That was a killer. That's verse 27, right? Right. That's important.

23:07

That's an important verse. And the way you guys just, he just kept on asking the question, and you realize there's not really an answer to this.

23:14

That was good. That's because the emphasis is always, well, you know, we're the only people who fit each and every exact prophecy in there.

23:24

They'll say that. They will say that, however, as we both know, there's only certain verses they'll necessarily grab out of Deuteronomy 28 that have anything in common with the transatlantic.

23:35

So while they say that, well, you got to fit each and every detail to be the applicant for this prophecy, there's a lot that they glaze over as well.

23:44

All right, so let's talk about, is the first major break with the Shah splitting off, would you say?

23:52

Yeah, there was, as we talked about, there was the Sons of Thunder over in Brooklyn a little bit earlier on.

23:59

I wouldn't exactly call it a split. It was just camps that did their own thing, their own way, and UPK ended up disassociating.

24:08

They did come up to Harlem quite a bit, and a few of those Brooklyn brothers joined and moved out to Harlem.

24:14

The majority, a lot of them stayed out there and kind of did things their own way.

24:21

So everyone knows there used to really be a lot more centralized unity in this movement. Oh, for sure.

24:26

And what's interesting is people think that a nation -building thing is happening, but actually the opposite is happening.

24:33

There's fracturing, and we're talking about these 90s splits, but now it's even more. Yeah, absolutely.

24:40

And so that split is what, House of David? Is that correct? That was called House of David. Because the

24:45

Shah... King David, right. Is David. All right. It's main loyal to my Shah. From what

24:51

I understand, it's, you know, there was always, there was frequent, right after that, there was frequent splits, and a lot of it had to do with personal differences, vendettas even, and stuff like that.

25:06

But it would always come out, it would always present as it was something doctrinal. Right. From what

25:12

I understand is my Shah and Ariyar went their separate ways over money. And Ariyar and those brothers from One West ended up paying visits to the other schools and tried to sort of get out in front of that.

25:25

Right. Give their explanation of why that went down. You know, Ariyar tried to retract on the my

25:32

Shah was King David thing. Okay. You know, he tried to downplay that and backpedal. Well, we're all reincarnated, but none of us are sure exactly who we are.

25:40

We were wrong about that. Right. It was a little too late for some of the zealous true believers. Did anybody ever tell you who you were?

25:48

Did anybody ever tell you? No, no, you had to be somebody really significant. Right. You know, sure, yeah.

25:56

So with that then, now let's look at House of David for a little bit. There was a split within that with Tahar, I believe, right?

26:05

Right. What goes down with that? That was the second split. So everyone knows Tahar is still active and I would say quite important and what's going on in this.

26:16

And from what I understand is really the first man to get his camp to really utilize the power of YouTube, which is now kind of standard practice among the groups, but he was the one to really jump on that and he's over GMS now,

26:30

Great Millstone. And what's going on there with that split, Kadash? Tahar used to,

26:36

Tahar goes way back. Right. He used to go out and street preach with Ariah. You can see him on Times Square and stuff and a lot of times he's like Ariah's reader even.

26:47

Yes, yeah. Yes, he was a lot younger at that time. He was coming up in the ranks. Yeah. Tahar, for some reason, made himself a lot of enemies.

26:55

He was kind of brash and he stood his ground on whatever he believed. Didn't compromise too much.

27:01

He had a loyal following and started to kind of leave his...

27:06

just naturally people sort of flocked to him. Either loved him or hated him. Yeah. And as you see, he is a somewhat of a charismatic figure.

27:17

I like, look, on a personal level, as I've gotten to know some of these guys, I like Tahar.

27:23

He's always making jokes. He strikes me as funny. He's got like nicknames for everybody. Tahar is a cool brother, yeah.

27:29

And he always will like relate something to a movie, you know. He'll be like, what's that? It just strikes me as, you know, this dude, you know, okay.

27:41

But the funny thing is he's over GMS, which is really the most tripped out crew in my opinion.

27:46

But yet, there's this dude that I kind of feel like a warm affection for. Like, check out this guy. Alright, I could listen to him, you know.

27:52

I don't mean like it's accurate. I'm just saying on a personal level, kind of enjoying him, you know what I'm saying? Right.

27:58

He does. He was, you know, he was always a showman on the streets and he was one of the more enjoyable teachers out there to watch, you know.

28:08

Yeah. I mean, I could say, I mean, if, you know, I'd be... I mean, I could see going over to Tahar's house, you know, kicking.

28:13

I don't know if he'd have me, but, you know. Okay, so what's up with Tahar and Cornelius?

28:20

Because my understanding is that's a key piece to all this going down. Tahar and Cornelius, explain.

28:27

Tahar was the first brother. They always had a breakdown of Acts 10 and Acts 15 to do with Cornelius because that was obviously sort of a monkey wrench in the

28:38

Gentiles can't be saved. Because it appears Cornelius is not by any stretch of the imagination an

28:47

Israelite. I mean, just read the text and you can see how Peter speaks to him. You can see the way he's described. So, all of a sudden this dude is, it looks like he's in the mix, right?

28:56

So, how do they explain it back then? The explanation kind of jumped around a little bit.

29:02

One of the, some brothers that go back in the school will know what I'm talking about when I say the the trick bag.

29:09

You know, they would always say the trick bag, the trick bag, the most hired the white man in the trick bag. Some brothers would admit that Cornelius, Tahar was one, who would admit that Cornelius genuinely received salvation.

29:22

Right. I remember him saying in one case, he said, because when we came with the gospel, Cornelius was the only one to bow down.

29:28

Right. The brothers frequently would teach that Cornelius was gonna receive some type of mercy in the kingdom. Okay. Alms, deeds toward the people of Israel, etc.,

29:36

and stuff like that. But no one ever came up with a satisfactory explanation of, well, if Cornelius could be saved, you know, why not, doesn't any other

29:45

Gentile need to just do the same thing, become a devout and God -fearing man and receive the grace of God?

29:51

Do you know the answer to this? Did anybody ever say, well, dude was probably Italian, so he was still an Israelite? Did anyone ever go that route?

29:58

You know what I'm saying? Tahar was the first one to say that. Oh, so the explanation, the modern explanation is via his, so I guess they'd probably be assuming he's some kind of Southern Italian, such as Sicilian or Napolitano, and then probably thinking through that, he's able to have

30:18

Israelite lineage, and so he legitimately is. So that's the current explanation? That's pretty much as far as it goes.

30:28

There's nothing in the text that says that. All the conversation that happens between Peter and Cornelius, and then the follow -up.

30:34

This is Acts chapter 10, everybody, Acts chapter 10 primarily, but then there's a follow -up in Acts 15. Go ahead.

30:40

Precisely. The follow -up in Acts 15 emphasizes it even more. Right, yeah.

30:46

Just read it. Oh, yeah. Okay, so Tahar comes out with this to kind of get around a problem, and what happens?

30:57

What's the reaction? Okay, he already had some rivalries going on before that.

31:02

Yeah. There was two things that Tahar was teaching. He started saying that Cornelius was indeed an Israelite.

31:08

And here's the next one, everybody, get ready for this. There's the next one. That in the kingdom or when

31:14

Israel receives their power, it's all right to rape women.

31:20

That we'll be raping women. Ravage the women and all that sort of thing. Put a pause on that for a second.

31:25

So that's why sometimes people use this, they call it the rape doctrine. Now GMS wants to make sure you know they're not talking about doing it now.

31:32

They are talking about the kingdom, just so everybody knows. Right. We want to call it like it is. However, I'll tell you, man, the

31:40

Southside GMS crew that I ran into, which Homeboy has resurfaced currently on YouTube.

31:46

Shout out to my fellow Southsider. He would be in Schiller Park, place

31:51

I used to play ball at, and watch joggers are going around saying, what OJ did to Nicole Brown Simpson is what's gonna happen to all

32:00

Edomite women in the kingdom. That was righteous to do. That's right. So it's kind of like a precursor to the kingdom,

32:08

I guess. At least that's what, now I don't know if Tahar would say that, but his crew was saying that. And so GMS kind of has that.

32:15

And so Tahar came out with both things at the same time. What was the result? Well, okay.

32:21

So at that time, some funny things were beginning to happen in the school. All right. Marshall was moving on in age.

32:29

You had... Hold on, can I ask you a question? Yes. I heard, now you may not have to comment, that some people suspect he may have been going senile.

32:39

Yeah. Yeah, there was some evidence of that. Okay. It was shortly before his death.

32:45

Okay, go ahead and just... Some people had whispered that. Okay, go ahead, I'm listening. Sure. There was two upcoming leaders in the

32:54

House of David school, which were Nathanael and Rahab.

33:00

Nathanael now is who everybody knows as Nathaniel, who spearheaded the Israel United in Christ movement.

33:06

That's the camp, whenever we talk about him, we refer to them as professional, polished, organized, rational in a certain manner of speaking, yet still kind of hardcore and doctrine.

33:21

I mean, I'm trying to... They wear the purple and gold so everybody can know, you know. They very much have all kind of been somewhat...

33:28

That is very much Nathanael and Nathanael's persona. Right, okay. And he's kind of shaped, you know, they modeled themselves after him.

33:39

Right. So that was always his style and his approach. Rahab was a little more of a belligerent guy, you know, more like some of the guys you would see in some of those more, you know, rough around the edges camps on YouTube today.

33:53

Right. So these guys were up and coming in the ranks and they kind of became

34:01

Moshar's spokesperson. Whenever there was, you would send these guys out to follow up with the schools, going and, you know, visit the different schools around and spur them on and that sort of thing, you know.

34:18

They began to develop a little bit of a different vision. Right. In my opinion, is they wanted to take it in some new directions.

34:27

Yeah, okay. And sort of a, you know, a seize on the power seat. So I've heard this talked about, is this what you can talk about, kind of sometimes referred to as the coup?

34:38

Yeah, yeah, I would say so. Okay, so what happens? There's a council, right? Well, one thing, the council didn't happen yet.

34:46

They overturned Moshar. One of Moshar's loyal men was

34:52

Tahar. And there's where you can see his sort of, what I would call, maybe tendency towards personal affection of warmth comes in.

34:59

Very loyal. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. He never stopped being loyal to both Moshar and Ariar, no matter what differences he had with them.

35:07

Right, okay. Yeah, he still speaks of both of them very highly and with great regard, reverence.

35:15

But I think, you know, from where I was standing, Tahar was somebody who sort of needed to be moved out of the way.

35:23

Right. He had a lot of weight, he had a lot of influence in the school. Yeah. He was dear to Moshar.

35:29

Mm -hmm. And I don't think that they were going to take it where they wanted with Tahar still around.

35:37

So they had to find a pretense to bounce him out. Right. And the pretense they used was?

35:45

The Cornelius issue. Which is ironic because what does almost every group teach now?

35:51

They all teach that now. Yeah, they almost all do. Except for GOCC, I think, right? I think they just got him as a

35:57

Gentile. Yeah, GOCC is, you know, probably come the furthest out of the

36:02

UPK groups. Okay. Any kind of orthodoxy, you know? Yeah, yeah. So, as I was saying,

36:10

I think Tahar saw the difficulty with the Cornelius breakdown, the trick bag thing, you know?

36:20

There was always an explanation of why the Bible seemed to be saying one thing but really said another.

36:27

Whatever the Bible really seemed to be saying was the opposite. If the New Testament appeared to be saying you don't have to keep the law of Moses anymore, there was a special reason that you had to get to understand why it was saying you had to keep the law of Moses.

36:38

If it appeared that it was saying the Gentiles could be saved, no. You had to delve into it deeper and find out. So almost everything that was manifest and obvious in the

36:46

Scriptures, you had to go for this, you know, long walk around. And, you know, they tell you exactly why what you were reading was not what it seemed to be saying and it was the exact opposite, you know?

36:58

Tahar, I think, was one of the first brothers that saw ahead that there was a difficulty in buttoning down the

37:05

Gentile issue so long as Cornelius was a genuine non -Jew, a genuine Gentile.

37:11

Yeah, right. You know, there was also several people in Tahar's camp going way back who didn't look like typical quote -unquote

37:22

Israelites. Right, so I mean even in the modern era, there's the dude who led the South Side GMS Columbus crew that's kind of notorious because he looks like an

37:32

Irish dude. Now, he'll call himself light -skinned and that's why sometimes dudes are like, yeah, light -skinned with red hair and they'll say, yo man, don't call us a black

37:41

Hebrew Israelites, look at that dude over there, you know, that type of thing. But, uh, so you're saying there were some dudes that seemed like, well, you don't seem to fit the profile, but hey, all right.

37:54

Right, if they could vibe with what the teaching was. Tahar, as you see, is, you know, he claims to be able to read spirits.

38:02

Yeah. So, you know, he exercises that if somebody's, you know, if somebody strikes him as Israel, then boom, they're

38:14

Israel. You know, Leonardo DiCaprio in Tahar's book is an Israelite. Oh, he's Italian, you know.

38:20

Yeah, he likes his style, you know. Leonardo DiCaprio's a cool dude. So, you know, we'll mark him down if we ever get a chance.

38:27

He might be Jake. He might be Jake. Let me stop. So, Jake is short for Jacob, and a lot of times it's the way that an

38:36

Israelite cat referred to somebody who's sort of not awoke to the truth yet, but is of the proper lineage, is the way

38:41

I would describe it. So, they might say he might be Jake. So, because prior to Israel, who was

38:47

Jacob? Well, let's abbreviate, break it down, speak a little flavor, Jake. So, there you go, so everybody can understand.

38:54

Sometimes people talk about their Jake job. That's their job kind of outside they got to go do, you know. Right. So, learning the lingo.

39:01

Now, there was always a teaching that, you know, they would quote certain scriptures. Israel is as a speckled bird.

39:06

There was always a teaching that there were Israelites out there who didn't look like Israel. Right, okay. Yeah.

39:11

But nobody ever, you know, what do you do with that? Then you got to preach this thing to anybody, and whoever responds to it, you know, you got to say they're an

39:19

Israelite. Now, you told me something, at least I heard it from somewhere, where sometimes we're in a modern era where Tahar will kind of be not feeling, let's say,

39:31

Brother Nathan, he'll say, you kind of looking like a Watusi right now. He's starting to look like a

39:37

Watusi to me. Now, I understand what that means, but can you explain that to somebody who's like, I don't really understand what you guys are saying right now.

39:43

What's the significance of that? Well, if I had a nickel for every time somebody left the school or had a fallout in the school and they were no longer dubbed an

39:53

Israelite. Yeah, yeah. Same thing happened to me when I left the school. Oh, what'd they call you? Oh, you're an

39:58

Edomite or something like that. Yeah, you're a Gentile. Do they sometimes use the phraseology, Ter? Yeah.

40:05

So, is a Ter somebody who looks like an Israelite but is actually of the wrong ethnic lineage? Is that kind of the technical definition or what?

40:12

Yeah, that could be. Okay. Yeah, that's one of the possibilities there. So, yeah, like I said, they always kind of held that teaching that anybody might be an

40:23

Israelite for all we know, but only Israel is going to respond to this truth. Right. Tahar was the first person to actually take them to task on that and say, well, you know, well, let's, you know, let's make it a, because to them, that was just a theory.

40:39

No one ever actually brought a non -Israelite looking person into the school to be the first one.

40:45

It's interesting because sort of the most radical in the way they street teach, most people would say is

40:51

GMS, but yet they're also the most open to say, yo, this dude may not look like, but he can be down with the crew.

40:59

Even really more than GOCC because GOCC still has these rules and regulations for so -called Gentiles where you got to be under the authority in a kind of clear way, you got to be kind of like commissioned, your teaching needs to be monitored, that type of thing.

41:11

It seems like GMS is a little bit more of an openness in that way, which is, again, highly ironic considering their whole approach and vibe, but, you know, it is what it is.

41:22

Right, right. So, Masha dies. When does he die?

41:28

Not before Tahar got bounced out of the school. Okay. That was something that I was in the midst of.

41:34

I was right in the eye of the storm, you know, that council where, you know, they were kind of, because I did have, you know, something to do with, you know, some brothers out there in the

41:44

Bridgeport, Connecticut area that Tahar presided over. Okay. You know, became close with one brother in particular.

41:51

And so every, every, every school leader or camp leader was kind of jealous over their men, you know, they kind of want to control and, you know, keep them to themselves.

42:01

They didn't really like people, you know, sort of, sort of, you know, cross communication between other camps, you know?

42:09

Yeah. Which I kind of broke that, you know, I became good friends with one particular brother.

42:15

And because of that, some of the conversations that ensued, they wanted my input at the council.

42:22

It was really very manipulative. I didn't really understand what I was getting into the middle. I was just a young man at that time.

42:28

Right. You know, but it was to frame and, you know, and get evidence against Tahar to boot him out of the school.

42:36

Right. Okay. That's true. All right. So, I mean, let's, let's jump a little bit to the

42:43

ICU, ICUPK stuff, you know, Tazadakia and all that stuff like this kind of...

42:48

Let me bring something back, you know, and you mentioned it before. Shortly after that, now

42:54

Tahar's out of the school. They disassociate from him. Mashar continued to have some, some concourse with him.

43:01

Sometimes they would keep certain holy days together and stuff like that. Okay. And I think once those guys, once those younger men saw that Tahar and Mashar still had a bond, that's when they had to attack

43:14

Mashar now. Oh, okay. Right. Once, you know, we got to get Mashar out of the way and it's time for us to usurp, you know, the reins here.

43:23

And then they came out with things that were probably true, uh, maybe somewhat exaggerated, but things that had been whispered since way back that, you know, some of those, those old elders like Mashar and then

43:35

Maria that they had been dealing with, uh, Kabbalah, with certain types of Satanism dealing with, um, there was a book they didn't share with other brothers that, you know, they probably long since discarded it by the time

43:47

I came around, but there was a book, uh, the seals of Solomon where, where was teaching you even in on how to bind and control demons and get them to do your bidding.

43:58

Okay. So I remember you mentioned this. So basically how to control demons, that was kind of an undercurrent and you're saying they, they brought this out against Mashar saying,

44:07

Hey, this is shady business type of thing. Exactly. Exactly. It was a convenient time to bring those things forward.

44:13

Yeah. I got you. I got you. So that's what they used for him. Yup. They, they severed from Mashar.

44:21

The school I was part of followed suit with Nathanael and Rahab. Uh, that became 12 tribes, 12 tribes of Israel.

44:30

Okay. And, uh, that didn't last very long. It was shortly after that that I left the school because once they became 12 tribes, all of a sudden the teaching surfaced that Cornelius really isn't an

44:44

Israelite. Yeah. So, uh, and I'm like, wait a minute. Then these guys needs these guys owe

44:52

Tahar and his camp an apology. Right. Right. You know, when Tahar hears this show,

44:58

I feel like he's going to be like, listen to these, listen, and even these fools be vindicating me.

45:03

You know, something like that. Vindicated. Yeah. Right. Right.

45:09

Uh, but you know, like I said, not that I endorse the things Tahar teaches on, on, on any level, you know?

45:15

Um, but, but that's just the way it went down. Right. That's the way it went down. All right.

45:21

So I want to look at the UPK stuff though, cause we kind of left that for a minute, but what's going on there?

45:27

A lot of changes there too, around this 94, 95, 96 type thing. What's going on there? Yeah. Um, UPK continued to be, you know, they, they both continued to be rivals.

45:39

House of David and UPK. Yeah. Okay. As the countdown to the, what becomes the, you know, and I guess the brother will talk about that later on.

45:49

The year 2000 prophecy. We're going to talk about that at the very end of the show. So we're kind of really hitting the nineties kind of hard.

45:55

And we're going to end this show today with the discussion briefly about the failed prophecy of the year 2000.

46:02

So we're moving through the nineties going to jump into that. So what's up with UPK and all that? Yeah. I didn't, that was one group that, you know, since, since we split ways,

46:12

I didn't have any contact with, we just would hear things, you know, they had some webpages up at the time.

46:18

They still had some programs going on in the New York area and some other cities and stuff like that. Some television programs, uh, but we didn't really have much to do with them.

46:27

They, they really despised us, you know, but as, as the countdown to Y2K comes,

46:34

I think they started to, to shift some positioning. Well, once, once it passes, there was a whole regrouping and, uh, you know, you know, adjusting themselves, you know, trying to get some, some new footing when their foremost prophecy ends up falling flat on its face.

46:52

Jehovah's witnesses all over again. Yeah. Which was funny because that was one thing.

46:57

They would always cite the passage in Deuteronomy, you know, both us and them. We, we started House of David started to started to that, that prophecy started to take, you know, a backseat.

47:09

You talk about Deuteronomy 18, the test of a prophet, test of a true prophet. Well, yeah, yeah.

47:16

Well, that, that was what, that's what I was saying before is that they would always mock the

47:22

Jehovah's witnesses and, and other, you know, fringe Christian groups who had made these false prophecies, predictions of the end of the world.

47:30

And they would cite Deuteronomy 18. You know, if that thing comes not to pass, you already know right there not to listen to anything else they say, but they didn't measure themselves.

47:39

You know, they didn't meet the same measure to themselves when if prophecy, you know, bottomed out.

47:46

When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not nor come to pass, that is a thing which the

47:51

Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet has spoken it presumptuously thou shalt not be afraid of him.

47:59

Yeah. So with UPK, what are some of the changes going on there?

48:05

I see changes. Yeah. We got Tazidakia. I see there and we got a

48:11

Yeshia getting kicked out. Right, right. Yeshia is kicked out.

48:17

Let me just see here. And then it gets transformed into ICGJC.

48:23

What's their importance? Cause not everybody knows them, but for a long time they were the biggest, maybe they still are.

48:30

And they've got Aria, which to me is a boon. I mean, what I'm saying is

48:35

Aria is kind of like the brainchild of a lot of this and he's with this group. Explain a little bit about that.

48:42

Well, Aria is like the golden goose, you know, so, so much it is. The doctrine was put out there and developed by him.

48:49

The old leaf was that he was actually encountered. He actually encountered the angelic being who revealed the

48:57

Hebrew's like doctrine to him. And none of this stuff was always presented.

49:03

Is that, is that the dude that taught him the language that said, Hey, this is the tongue our forefathers spoke. Is this, this story?

49:10

That I'm not certain about that. I'm not certain about that. Maybe we'll do that on next week's show.

49:15

By the way, everybody, plan as of now is to do a part two of this, but it's actually going to be like a prequel, going to kind of go back into even some more of the old school stuff and discuss its modern day relevance.

49:25

This is really focusing a little bit on the nineties and early two thousands. So what's up with Israelite church of God, Jesus Christ.

49:34

I think all those changes happened after the prophecy failed. Okay. Tazodakia and Jermaine Grant takes a trip.

49:43

They take a trip out to Israel and Mount of Olives or something like that. He supposedly receives his revelation.

49:52

Reminds me of the same kind of aria stories all over again, the divine encounter, you know, what is the revelation of the

49:59

Holy Spirit incarnate in the flesh. Say that again, that he is the Holy Spirit, the comforter incarnate in the flesh.

50:06

This one that makes sure everyone makes sure everyone understands that, which is a certain advantage to that. Because if you got to be

50:12

King David, you know, there's kind of like a heavy expectation, you know, you got to get a certain personality.

50:18

And if you're the Holy Spirit, I mean, I mean, it's like, it's like,

50:26

Hey, I got the King. Oh, I got the ace, you know, type of thing. So it does trouble him.

50:32

And also you can kind of shape the Holy Spirit. I mean, you know, we're speaking crassly, but kind of how you want.

50:40

So it's like, oh, okay. And this is the same man who, and I made a mistake in a previous interview, which

50:45

I've apologized several times for. This is the man called Comfey who made the 12 inch action figure doll of himself, which the doll manufacturer did not make dark enough.

50:55

And so the doll manufacturer got sued because it was too light. This is the man who did that. So there is a cult of personality,

51:01

I think around Comfey. I mean, if he's the Holy Spirit, it kind of makes sense. Right? Right. Now tell me this though.

51:07

They always were big on marketing, whatever, you know, you know, overpriced books and artwork and garments and things like that.

51:16

They were always big on marketing and drawing, you know, uh, I mean, some of these guys were, were, uh, you know, riding bicycles and stuff like that.

51:23

While the elders, you know, were riding expensive cars and things, you know, they basically was a business pyramid in a lot of ways.

51:30

They drew the funds from, from their congregation. And, um, you know, back then, like I explained to you in another conversation, the doors would be barred at the end of the night.

51:39

Come, you know, the time when it was supposed to pay your tithes and men had to produce their, their, their, um, their check stubs.

51:47

So they could know that you were giving your 10%. Dang. I know that. It's funny because I remember we were talking the other day and your boy was like,

51:56

Hey, don't you kind of want to pin this one dude down and ask him like, Hey, do you believe this? Or is this a hustle? And the dude was like, man, he was given a hypothetical answer from one of these older leaders and be like, man, it's

52:06

New York city. Of course it's a hustle. By the way, that was hypothetical.

52:14

Just so everyone understands, we're not saying that was an actual dialogue. We're doing, we were reconstructing a hypothetical dialogue.

52:22

So everyone understands that conversation did not actually happen is people be misinterpreting so much, man. I gotta like stop and qualify, but okay.

52:29

So, uh, how do you think it was that Aria was willing to say that Jermaine Grant was the manifestation of incarnation of Holy spirit?

52:39

I have not figured that one out yet. Yeah. I can only give my opinion, but I think his

52:45

Aria also is aging. Cause he's an older man, you know, and he like dropped a lot of this stuff.

52:51

It's just shocking that he would, because from what I heard Jermaine was a cameraman prior to this, right?

52:57

Yeah. You can see him in some old videos, even though the Louis Theroux videos, right. You know, interesting because so Aria changed his, his, his position on, on so many things, as you know, he went from, uh, you know, denying the virgin birth, even denying the opening chapters of the book of Luke.

53:14

Oh yeah. I remember I heard about the council where at the end, Aria says, well, the book of Luke is a lie.

53:20

That's a lie. Cause it was, I guess by a Gentile. Was that the rationale with that? Well, uh,

53:26

I don't know. That's a good question. I just care. Or either it was, it was inserted in there by the white man or something like that.

53:32

You know, I knew the brothers who actually were there and heard him say that he was kind of outgunned with, you know, what, what the scriptures say there in the book of Luke and just, you know, he had to, it's funny because by him saying that he tacitly admits the book of Luke really is saying, right.

53:49

Yes. That's born of a virgin. Yeah. And I don't have any defense for that. I can't talk my way out of it.

53:55

So I'm just going to dub it a lot. Right. There you go. There you go. Yeah. Which, which of course today he's, he's backpedaled on that.

54:02

And um, you know, now asserts and affirms the virgin birth. They now affirm the deity of Christ, which they never did.

54:10

Okay. Now that tripped me out too, because generally speaking, we say the Israelite groups denigrate crisis and into some lesser status, but yeah,

54:19

Israelite church, God, Jesus Christ, who has Holy spirit, God sent comforter in the mix at the helm.

54:26

You know, you can see some pictures of him online where he's rocking all yellow suit, man. This dude put together a messed up meme.

54:32

I'm just going to tell you about it real quick. It had a picture of the Michael Jackson jacket, like the old school, you know, kind of thriller era jacket.

54:39

And then it had a plus sign and it had a, uh, a batch of bananas and it had the equal sign of, of a

54:47

German standing there in his yellow banana looking kind of suit with the studs and type of thing. You know,

54:52

I'm sorry, man. The internet is a deep dark place. And when you start getting to the world of Hebrew, Israelite memes and counter memes, you're in a whole nother level.

55:02

But okay, go ahead. So, so really no good explanation. It seems like with Arieh, what's going on with him.

55:08

And he's still alive today. I would love to hear an interview with this man, you know? Sure, sure. Really get inside.

55:15

What does that do to the claim that this doctrine was, was handed to you by angels? Right. If you flipping and flopping and this and that.

55:22

Yeah. Right. Right. Which was the thing that started to shake my faith in the movement when

55:27

I was part of it. Because when I entered these brothers presented as so bold, so confident about their, their handle on the scriptures.

55:35

And when I actually got to be part of it, I noticed there was this never ending shuffle, right. Uh, you know, about interpretations and breakdowns as, as we know to be true.

55:47

Yeah. The Bible only, you can proof texts and cherry pick and get that Bible to say anything you want it to.

55:53

If you just grab, you know, like the thing here a little, a little in there, a little, you can make that Bible say anything you'd like to hear.

55:59

But if you arrange it in a way that everything the Bible has to say on a particular topic, you have to add into your, you have to take account for and give account for before you arrive at the conclusion, at the interpretation, that that's a different type of, that's exegesis, right?

56:19

You know, that's, that's a different type of, I said, Jesus is where you put something into the text.

56:24

It's not there. Exegesis is where you draw out of the text. What actually is there? Hey, yo, our homie

56:31

Abu's waking up on Twitter. Let me say a couple of things that he said, and then you can comment on that.

56:39

Greetings. Yeah. What up? Uh, I think I heard him say all praises, all praises. I think I heard him.

56:46

With the transition to the ICGJC comes an embrace of the virgin birth, even the perpetual virginity of Mary, Christ's divinity, also a literal hell, overturning the old breakdown of Revelation nine.

57:01

That's, those are big changes. And this is why, um, I hear sometimes people will say, uh,

57:08

ICGJC is kind of like, like the Orthodox. If you wanted to make some kind of rough comparison within Christendom so called, or perhaps the

57:15

Roman Catholic, uh, version or something out of the camps, because you kind of have a popish figure there with, um, comfy, by the way,

57:24

Abu also notes comfy is a slur used by the rivals. He calls himself Tazidakia and the comforter just so everybody knows.

57:31

And I think, uh, chief high priest or something like that too. But, uh, so that means now we're embracing the virgin conception.

57:40

We're embracing Christ is truly divine, embracing an actual, uh, eternal conscious torment idea in hell and overturning the way

57:48

Revelation nine used to be broken down. Those are big changes, which

57:53

I mean, actually good changes. It seems like, you know what I'm saying? Well, they, they, yeah, they did revise a lot of things and started to step in the direction of, you know, some on some issues,

58:04

Orthodox Christianity. Right. Um, and they always kind of had a leaning toward that.

58:09

They were the most, so they always had like these Catholic and Eastern Byzantine influences.

58:15

I remember early, early back on when they were selling the, the icons, you know, the black icons of the, uh, you know, the brothers would paint the saints and Christ and stuff like that.

58:25

They were almost given this, you know, the same kind of, um, you know, attributing a certain quality to these pictures that, you know, sort of like the windows of heaven, right.

58:34

Teaching from the, you know, Eastern Orthodox. Yeah. Sort of almost, uh, bordering on veneration type thing.

58:41

Sure. Sure. Um, see, that's interesting, man. They had a priesthood, you know? Yeah. They're the ones with the most, you know, that made the most issue out of the priesthood.

58:51

Um, other groups kind of tended. I always look at it almost like UPK was a sort of the

58:56

Catholic church of the Israelites. And then you had this Protestant break off almost where they, they, they, they ended up, uh, discarding a lot of traditions that had, you know, came to, came to be part of the, you know, their, their, uh, practice and belief.

59:12

Now real quick, it is sort of a side note, and I'm gonna let you probably say one more thing after this, and we're probably gonna jump into that 2000 prophecy, but also what's the significance if someone's not tracking of this virgin conception idea in the first place, why is that even an issue for Israelite groups, the virgin conception?

59:31

Why is it important whether Christ was virgin born or not to them?

59:40

Well, I mean, that's, that's a, that's a good question. I have a theory. I thought you had a ready, heady,

59:46

I got a theory. If you want to hear mine first. Well, I was, I'll share mine too, is that some of it, a lot of it, a lot of their interpretations is simply being at odds.

59:59

Um, simply being at odds with what the, the, the, the mainstream Christian teaching. So you think it's just a product of contrarianism?

01:00:06

They just like to be contrarians. Very much. These guys are a bunch of contrarians, man.

01:00:11

Yeah. Yeah. You ever heard the old joke? Whatever you see in the Bible, it seems to say, um,

01:00:19

I was just looking at something, you know, Brother Faithful had, uh, still made the distinction that the

01:00:25

ICGJC still teaches that Christ is a created being. So they did retain some of their old doctrine.

01:00:32

Right. But they do ascribe divinity, deity, divine status. You ever hear the old joke, uh,

01:00:38

I tried to give this book to a contrarian friend of mine called Letters to a young contrarian and he wouldn't take it.

01:00:46

I always thought it was funny. I heard it from Christopher Hitchens, believe it or not. And just, uh, one of the brothers, a brother named

01:00:52

Loyal, who I used to fellowship with on a regular, he, he left, uh, with LeHab and that crew back then was central command.

01:00:59

And he always thought it was significant that the first miracle that we encounter in the new

01:01:05

Testament is the virgin birth. And he always felt like it was significant that they denied that.

01:01:11

Right. Well, isn't it because if you're making a big deal out of lineage and being an ethnic

01:01:17

Israelite and the way you track it on according to most groups is your pop side, cause it goes like this.

01:01:25

The gospel of the 12 tribes chart is almost preached like this on the street. You stop, you talk and they say, what's your nationality?

01:01:32

Well, I'm such and such on your mom's or your dad's side, you see? And it's gotta be on your pop side.

01:01:37

So believe it or not, everybody, most so -called Hebrew Israelite groups deny that Bob Marley could be saved in a sense because his pop was in their dictionary, an

01:01:50

Edomite. And so Bob Marley, for example, chanting down Babylon and everything else is actually an

01:01:57

Edomite because on the pop side, he got the wrong thing going on, which is kind of trippy. Unless you come on, unless you come across some brothers who really dig

01:02:04

Bob Marley. Yeah. And they're like, well, maybe, you know, they start singing a redemption song. So, so with that, so there's just so much going on.

01:02:15

So what's he say here? Opposition to the virgin birth seems rooted in their

01:02:20

Tanakh only anti -Christian origins and emphasis on paternal lineage. So we haven't really discussed the

01:02:26

Tanakh only Israelite section that exists. Zion Lex is one of the most well -known proponents, probably at least, you know, he's a well -known proponent of the

01:02:36

Tanakh only side and we haven't got much into that. Most of these folks in some way embrace New Testament and Christ and all that as Messiah, but there is also the

01:02:47

Tanakh only as well. Okay. So it's interesting that going further back to Abba Bibin's day, they were a

01:02:55

Tanakh and Torah only as well. Yaakub, I believe from the stories

01:03:00

I heard, was the first one to introduce Christ in the New Testament. Oh, okay. Okay.

01:03:05

Yeah. All right. So, I mean this goes back, you had the black Jew, I mean, this, this is going further back. Like you said, you know, we're going to have an addition on that as well.

01:03:13

Yeah. Talk about like the commandment keepers, for example. Yes. The Moorish temple of, you know, Moorish Jewish temple of Harlem, the black

01:03:20

Jews of Harlem. Yeah. And that sort of, you know, some of them which was just, you know, identical to rabbinical

01:03:25

Judaism. Yeah. Got some old books on that. Here's his one. This is old school book, Howard Brotz, The Black Jews of Harlem.

01:03:31

Now some of the languages here is a little outdated, meaning sometimes he speaks in certain ways about ethnicity that I would prefer he not, but the book's a product of his time.

01:03:40

But as far as being an up close encounter with some of the stuff popping off at that time with the commandment keepers and whatnot, which we're not really discussing today.

01:03:47

Great book on that. Let me see. I think I got one more. Let me just mention it real quick. Cause there are, there's some history on some of this stuff.

01:03:54

There's not a ton, you know, but there, there's some things. And so just bringing that out.

01:03:59

Where did that other one go? I had, I can't find it right now, but, uh, uh, whatever. We'll get to that. It's called

01:04:04

Heritage Seekers. Um, it's another one, a similar type of track, but yo man, one more thing you want to say, maybe tie this together cause we kind of just went back.

01:04:14

We did a full circle where we dropped Abba Bivens. One more thing you want to say about the fractured nineties, about all the stuff, because here's my understanding of the point of why

01:04:23

I wanted to do this today. Things are presented within the camps as if we've got our ducks in a row.

01:04:29

Everything's lined up. You know what I'm saying? There it is. Button up tight. Ain't nobody handling the scriptures like us type of thing.

01:04:37

We're trying to peel back the curtain, show you there's a man back there. We're trying to take you to the hot dog factory, show you how the hot dogs are made.

01:04:43

We're trying to shine some light on the reality of it. Now, now, this is not to say that there's no development and personal and political conflict within Christian church history.

01:04:54

That's not the point of this. Meaning we recognize that as well. Just study church history. You see it. But the point is that these groups tend to act like that's not them type of thing.

01:05:04

And sort of as if they dropped out of nowhere with the stuff. And especially with everybody kind of being exposed to it on the internet when it's like their first time, they're like,

01:05:11

Oh, okay. All right. All right. You got to understand, man, this stuff, this stuff has a lineage and it's really messy.

01:05:18

And my prediction is as this thing grows, it's gonna get messier final words from you, my man.

01:05:26

What you want to say before we bring our boy on. Yeah. Well, that's exactly, that's what led to my exit, you know, of the school in the late nineties is that, you know, the more you try to just this ongoing shuffle, they were hammering it out.

01:05:39

It became evident to me that they were, they were making it up as they went pretty much. They were, they were hammering it out and, you know, make a statement, retract it, go back to it, revise it, say the opposite of what they were saying.

01:05:52

And when you do that, you know, you try to have, you know, you grab certain verses and you try to arrange them in a way that says what you'd like it to say or what you've already preconceived the

01:06:01

Bible to be saying. And then you have all these problem verses that are popping out and glaring at you over here on this side.

01:06:10

That's no way to approach biblical interpretation your duty to have any kind of integrity in biblical interpretation is to hold on.

01:06:19

You don't, you don't come to the sun before you've done the equation. Right, right. You know what

01:06:24

I'm saying? Yeah, you don't have the answer already in hand. And this shows the importance. Well, I'd like the answer to come up to, to, you know, 777.

01:06:32

So I'm going to tailor and omit certain things so that we arrive at the answer I've already decided to get, you know?

01:06:39

And I think that started to provoke some second guessing and, uh, you know, some doubt in, in some of those guys.

01:06:45

After we left the school, a whole bunch of brothers shook loose. And this is where it gets presuppositional because when dealing with the

01:06:52

Hebrew Israelite cats, and when you start flipping to the text, I'm going to tell you, man, their presuppositions drive their exegesis, which makes it eisegesis.

01:07:03

Sometimes I've heard people dub it narsegesis, which is kind of a, you know, a little bit, whatever, whatever.

01:07:09

But, but what you see is the presupposition is driving it. And that's why when a clear language gets subverted and all of a sudden

01:07:17

Gentile doesn't mean Gentile whenever it doesn't mean Gentile, not because of really linguistic considerations.

01:07:22

Now they'll try to say that they become more sophisticated. Like you listen, you know what I'm saying? To Cezaryach or somebody like that.

01:07:29

And it sounds like, Oh, okay. But you kind of stop and say, what actually are you saying in all this? And where's the consistency in this?

01:07:35

Then you see the problem is presuppositional because the thesis is driving the interpretation.

01:07:41

Now let's just say, I'm just reading the text. I'm just reading what it says, but they're assuming a certain interpretation as they do that.

01:07:48

And so people need to be made aware. And I think what I want to see Christians do and engage in a respectful manner, according to 1

01:07:55

Peter 3 .15 and Colossians 4 .5 .6 is to hammer in on those presuppositions to show our friends in this movement, every time their presuppositions are being exposed, because what they end up doing is crafting the word of God more into their own image instead of letting it shape them.

01:08:15

Right, right, right. Which was a big, you know, milestone that I crossed.

01:08:20

Wait a minute. I had to humble myself and surrender to what the, if I wanted to understand the scriptures, I had to surrender to what it was really, what the text was saying.

01:08:28

It was the only way that it was going to work out where there were no problem verses anymore. Another thing,

01:08:33

I'll add this last thing. Certain brothers were, were a man would be applauded and lauded if he were a guy that could come up with a certain, you know, an insight into the scripture to support the things they wanted to say.

01:08:49

If you dig what I'm saying. Problem solver. If he could get in there and mine for something that supported their presuppositions that they already had.

01:08:58

Oh, you know, it was like a big round of applause. Oh man, that brother, you know, he went and dug there and dug in there and he found more evidence to confirm that we're really right about what we're saying.

01:09:07

Right. Um, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was interesting too. Well, let me play some of this video here that a main man, faithful to God put together black

01:09:17

Hebrew Israelites, false year, 2000 prophecy. That's the way he's titled it. Like I said, I've been calling everybody Israelites so -called or Hebrew Israelites, the whole show, but that's the title of it on YouTube.

01:09:26

I'm going to start with it and you're going to have some old audio from the nineties of Hebrew Israelite camps. In fact,

01:09:31

Tahar is going to make a cameo in this in relation to 2000. After I play it, we're going to bring up faithful to God and close out the nineties with the false prophecy of 2000.

01:09:41

Rich, my main man, do you got my volume up? Cause I'm hitting that button. God is going to set his decree in these last days and that is to totally annihilate

01:09:51

America. America will be blown off the face of the earth by the year 2000.

01:09:56

It's talking about judgment day. Jesus Christ is coming back on the white horse and he's coming back.

01:10:03

He's going to take down the white man, the Edomites. That's why your Pope is down in the ground. It's going to happen by the year 2000.

01:10:10

Dude smiles. And this thermonuclear war is

01:10:15

America. America is going to be wiped off the face of the planet earth. That's going to take place before the year 2000.

01:10:21

That's going to take place before the year 2000. That's going to take place before the year 2000.

01:10:27

America has less than 628 days. America has less than 628 days.

01:10:33

America has less than 628 days before this country is taken out.

01:10:41

This kingdom, America is going to be destroyed before the year 2000. Evil kingdom that God spoke of in the

01:10:49

Bible. And all you so -called white people, your condemnation, you are condemned to what? Hell.

01:10:54

And you're going to be in hell. You're going to be oppressed before the year 2000. Christ is going to come back. Museum America is going to be destroyed before the year 2000 by thermonuclear destruction.

01:11:06

The pointer stick made all the difference there with that guy. I must say, let me flip over, uh, try to get our next spot set up and just see where it is.

01:11:14

All right, there it is. Let's talk to the creator of the video. My main man, faithful to God, laboring faithfully.

01:11:21

What's up with you, man? Welcome to the dividing line with vocab and Kaddash. How you doing, man? Ah, what's going on, man?

01:11:29

I love everything that I'm hearing right now, man. So much information about the history and everything.

01:11:34

And, uh, you know, as the people heard out there, you know, the craziness that was going on in the, uh, you know, original school.

01:11:42

True that. True that. Well, faithful, you've been laboring faithfully in this area for a minute. And I want to give you some time here at the end as we close out the fractured nineties to discuss this year 2000 prophecy.

01:11:55

And, uh, I believe I saw Tahar making a cameo there, right? He was the one with the 628 days or whatever.

01:12:00

Is that right? Right. Yes. Yeah. And that was probably around the time that he was with House of David Church.

01:12:06

All right. So tell us about this prophecy, because it's kind of been downplayed a little bit here. Yeah. You know, basically, um, starting somewhere in 1989,

01:12:18

I guess the original school, uh, specifically Ariyat came up with this notion from a faulty breakdown that he,

01:12:26

I guess, conjectured from, uh, Hosea, right? Uh, the sixth chapter in the second verse, uh, where it talks about the two days and the third day.

01:12:36

Yeah. And let me pause it real quick. Everybody pause it. This is significant because Ariyat is the same one who constructed the 12 tribes chart that is preached faithfully as well as the pure tongue.

01:12:51

And so this is significant. Yes. This is very significant. Continue on. Right. So basically, uh, if I'm not mistaken that you tie that together with, uh, the verse in Peter where it talks about a days, like a thousand years with the

01:13:06

Lord and Christ's words, where he essentially states that, uh, he cut the days short, uh, in order for the, uh, the saints.

01:13:15

Right. And that's where he came up with his faulty understanding and, uh, basically use that to springboard this, this false doctrine onto the school and everybody was essentially forced to teach it.

01:13:31

Right. Um, it didn't matter who it was. And you know, I'm going to say this right now. It doesn't matter if it was

01:13:36

Yohana, Nathaniel, Tahar, as we've seen, uh, and whoever else, all the people in that school taught that without exception, that was something that was mandated.

01:13:50

And, um, it just goes to show the lack of discernment as, uh, the brother Kedash was explaining, right.

01:13:56

You know, there was just a general lack of discernment in the school and it manifested itself in a false prophecy.

01:14:03

You know, what else you want to say about this prophecy? I got some more clips here I can play in a minute. You want to say anything else about it and its significance before I play this next clip around five?

01:14:15

Oh, let's see. Where do I need to be? Five 13, I think. Yeah. Okay. Go full screen on that.

01:14:23

Gabbar from GOCC, if I'm not mistaken, and two elders from the original school.

01:14:28

I don't remember their names off the top of their head right now, but they do show up in the title of the video. And, uh, yeah, they pretty much let it be known that this was

01:14:37

Ariadne's doctrine and he forced it on the school. All right. Well, let's play this next part.

01:14:42

See what they say up in here. This is a audio excerpt from a debate, uh, called is the 12 tribe chart relevant.

01:14:50

So now to different churches and things that I need to be before I did, I started examining everything, you know, all the doctrine that, that, that, uh, that I, you know, learn and the brother would write about, you know, uh,

01:15:02

Aria was one of the pioneers to bring out that crisis coming for the year 2000.

01:15:07

And the understanding of that came from Isaiah, the chapter, uh, the sixth chapter, uh, that after two days

01:15:13

I will restore you. And after the third day you live in my sight. So he figured that, you know, the third day is after the year 2000.

01:15:20

So that, they kind of, you know, came with that understanding. Everybody in the school real quick, real quick.

01:15:26

So that was Gabbar right there talking about it. And, and Gabbar for those who don't know is with G O C C now and someone that I've been able to speak with frequently.

01:15:36

And I actually Gabbar is another man that I have a lot of respect for. I've enjoyed conversation and dialogue.

01:15:42

He's really knowledgeable man and a pretty forthright about stuff. So kind of shout out to Gabbar.

01:15:48

Uh, what's this next section we got going on here? Uh, now this next section should be the two elders from the original school.

01:15:56

Yeah. Uh, I believe their names are Isariah Isariah and Pariyam.

01:16:03

Okay. Yeah. All right. Let's play this joint. Good job putting this video together, by the way. Faithful to God.

01:16:08

All right, here we go. Preaching the year 2000 prophecy, uh, that the crisis is going to return to the year 2000.

01:16:14

All of us. That was, uh, that was, that was sanctioned by Haria. You teach us on the street and 34th street camp.

01:16:21

I was in 34th street camp right in front of the bank. Uh, what's the name of the bank now?

01:16:27

The name of the bank, city bank. I was out there teaching that for almost 10 years from 19, um, from 19, 1989 to 1999.

01:16:40

I was teaching that. Oh, and I was ordered. I was ordered to teach. If I wasn't teaching that, if I wasn't teaching that, even though kick me out, excuse me.

01:16:51

Well, you're talking, you're saying something faithful. What up? Was that you? It's hard to tell what's going on.

01:16:57

We apologize. The original audio, everybody is a little bit poor, but I, since I stopped it there,

01:17:02

I don't want to start back up just yet. Uh, so you got it. Kadash, are you still listening? You with us?

01:17:09

He's still around here. I just went on new mute there. Yeah. I mean, what, what you got to say about this?

01:17:16

Hey, Shalom brother. Shalom. What do you want to comment on this? Uh, it's just that that's a hundred percent accurate.

01:17:24

Uh, you used to have what you called camp class where they drilled, uh, exactly what was to be taught.

01:17:31

Only upper, uh, higher ranking teachers could kind of freestyle out there on the street.

01:17:38

Everybody else had a, you know, they had a pitch. And, and so what you, what you heard was always, uh, rehearsed and authorized, uh, out there on the street.

01:17:49

So that, that, that is a hundred percent accurate. Uh, that was one of the, if you want to call it dogmas of, uh, the

01:17:57

Hebrew Israelite teaching was Y2K. Okay. And, uh, and, uh, as we'll see, uh, at the end of this, uh, basically this was enforced on everybody in the school.

01:18:11

Uh, this was pretty much a dogma as the brother was saying, this was something that, um, they had to basically teach or they could leave the school.

01:18:21

And that's pretty much, uh, what it boiled down to either obey the, you know, obey that teaching, you know, go out there, preach it, or you can just see your way out.

01:18:33

Right. Uh, there's some more audio we want to play here. Even in the, in the late eighties, they were teaching about Christ coming back in the year 2000?

01:18:41

Yeah, they were teaching that. When I came in, they were teaching that. 1989. They was teaching that. If you were among those who preached that.

01:18:49

Yeah. So that's, that's back, man. All right. Is there some more audio? You think I should play for this or is it mainly the text at that point?

01:18:57

No, no, that, that, that, that would, that's pretty much it. And I think that says it all. Pretty much the reason why

01:19:03

I put the video together is because I wanted to get some of these people, some of the younger dudes that are caught up in some of these camps like GMS or Israel United in Christ, or whether it be the new

01:19:15

ISPK, that's Yohannes camp, uh, these different guys who might not know about this to kind of give them an insight into what's going on, uh, or what went on,

01:19:26

I should say back then, and that this should really make them think, right? I mean, their elders were out there, you know, teaching this doctrine with no discernment whatsoever.

01:19:38

I mean, where is, you know, it's almost, it's almost as if they embody what 1

01:19:45

Corinthians 2, 14 states, but the natural man receives not the things of the spirit, but they are foolishness also.

01:19:51

Neither can they understand them because they are spiritually discerned. Now they would assert that that's what we're doing with, you know, making, you know, you know, talking about these things, but think about it.

01:20:01

This was a natural man with no spiritual discernment coming up with the so -called breakdown, uh, telling people

01:20:10

Christ is going to return. And yet, I mean, in the Bible, Christ himself states that no one knows the hour except for the father.

01:20:20

How could they possibly think to go against Christ's own word and exalt

01:20:26

Aria? Right, right, right. I'll say, say this too, two, two things on that.

01:20:33

Uh, if I may, there's a, uh, uh, a population out there that has not completely let go of this prophecy either.

01:20:42

If you realize that, uh, you'll, you'll catch some of them saying that, uh, you know, the white man played with the dates, uh, the calendar is off by some, um, the 400 years of Israel's captivity has to be fulfilled, which began in, in, in, uh, a 16, 19.

01:21:00

Let me just interject for a second. So 1619, when you jump into Jamestown, Virginia is when it seems you might be able to consider the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade in some way, as far as coming to what they would call the house of bondage,

01:21:14

United States of America, sort of this new Egypt or Babylon, not really sure is us Babylon or Egypt against both.

01:21:20

But anyways, 16, 19 is when you see the beginning of that. And so what's 400 years of captivity, everybody, 2019.

01:21:29

And so that's where you see, there's still that apocalyptic strand. However, I do hear the predictions being made a little more tentative and it'd be interesting to see what happens if you don't see, um, well, you know, when you probably see the failure again,

01:21:42

I wonder if they're going to say, well, there's other places in the, in the text where it says 430 years. Yes.

01:21:48

I kind of anticipate that too. Yeah. Then, then he, the, the Abraham thing, the Egyptian thing that will apply to the

01:21:54

Egyptian captivity again, but it, it will be, uh, you know, sort of a second, secondary fulfillment, uh, a reoccurring fulfillment, right.

01:22:02

Because right now they try to say that 400 years has nothing to do with the Egyptian captivity.

01:22:08

Yeah. And, and if I can just throw one more thing, the impact, that's something we haven't talked about is how a lot of these doctrines impacted people, right.

01:22:17

Uh, whether or not the B the leaders of this movement, uh, a hundred percent believe these things or not.

01:22:25

I can't say, uh, I have my doubts. Um, but the average lay person certainly believed it.

01:22:32

And so, like I said, one thing we haven't talked about is how this has impacted a lot of people's lives. A lot of brothers that were working menial jobs and, uh, for doing things like investing in education or, you know, just making any kind of moves for themselves financially, academically trade skills and things like that, because,

01:22:55

Hey, this thing was about to wrap up and we're about to be out of here. And then we were going to inherit all of America's riches on the way back to, you know, the new

01:23:02

Jerusalem anyway. And so it's funny, like after 2000, all of a sudden you saw a lot of brothers starting to go back to school again.

01:23:11

Um, trying to, trying to step forward and make some progress for themselves. maybe that's the best thing that came out of that failed prophecy is, uh, more guys getting in trade school.

01:23:21

I don't know, man. Yo, uh, could actually final, you know, thoughts on all this.

01:23:26

And if I could probe you with this question before you jam out, because we're, we're winding down here on his

01:23:32

DL, which again, so thanks. Dr. James White, rich, holding the downloads beyond alpha, mega, all that.

01:23:37

What do you predict the reaction to this show is going to be on the internet?

01:23:47

That's a fair question. Um, are you staying away from prophecies now? You don't want to, you don't want to be kind of gun shy now.

01:23:55

All right. What about, let me let faithful go first. Faithful. What you've heard this show.

01:24:01

What's going to be the reaction, dude? Well, of course they're going to accuse us of supposedly being agents.

01:24:08

Oh, he saw paid them off. Now you see they're trying to, you know, the time is coming that they're trying to come against this truth.

01:24:15

And the reality of the matter is that these guys aren't in the truth. They're in the lie.

01:24:20

They're being deceived. And the only thing that I have to say is this, um, this is why

01:24:25

I have channels like my own, where, you know, we do debates with Hebrews like components, uh, usually have them on Monday nights, 11

01:24:34

PM Eastern standard time. Then there's also the brother G man who does his, uh,

01:24:39

G man versus the black. He does his at seven 30 PM Eastern standard time on Monday.

01:24:45

And I'm, I'm, I'm just going to say this. If anybody has any issue with what was said today, please, please come on our programs and we would love to interact with you and let's critically examine your doctrines and see if they hold up to the test of biblical exegesis, proper biblical exegesis.

01:25:07

And if they stand up to historical, uh, accuracy and criticism, because some of the things that they say in regards to history, such as the dark ages doctrine,

01:25:18

I don't think we've even touched on that. The dark ages doctrine. I ain't, this is news to me.

01:25:23

I mean, we got it in there. We got it in the show, but you can't just say that. You got to tell me what is the dark ages doctrine?

01:25:31

Well, the dark ages doctrine, and I'm sure kadash knows is basically this belief that the

01:25:37

Israelites ruled Europe for a thousand years. Okay. So the black nobility, black royalty, you get it.

01:25:43

Oh, but also they're really, yeah, yeah, yeah. Come on, man. Oh, okay. Yo, check it, check it.

01:25:50

Using that same precept is Bruce Wayne and Israelite, right? He's the dark knight.

01:25:58

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay. Okay. Maybe I'm not

01:26:04

Jake after all. Maybe I am. I'm just, sorry. I was just kidding. I don't want to make too many jokes. I'd like to see a debate though.

01:26:12

I might bring my Afro back just because people comment on, I might gotta, I might gotta bring it back, man.

01:26:18

It's just a lot of work, man. Especially in these summers in Phoenix. Like it's just, it's just kinda, you know, it takes a little, you sleep on it and this and that, but you know,

01:26:26

I might, I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. What's up? I mean, the problem is Esau ain't really paying enough.

01:26:32

And so I still gotta work, you know, driving a truck. So they got a dress code. So that's part of the problem. So anyways,

01:26:37

I'd like to see a debate is Misha like Sir Pintor. That'd be interesting, but I don't think they'll do that either.

01:26:45

Somebody's going to get mad and say I should be killed for that, that joke right there. But, uh, okay. Real quick, brother vocab, uh, very quickly.

01:26:52

If anybody wants to find my channel, it is faithful to God and YouTube. You can type that in or TTB 2050.

01:26:59

Uh, you can just type in G man, uh, you know, G space man, and you can find his channel.

01:27:04

And again, we do debates, uh, Monday night, 7 .30 PM Eastern standard time on his channel and 11

01:27:12

PM Eastern standard time on my channel. Good stuff, man. Faithful. Thank you so much for your work in this area.

01:27:19

This video, you know, your focus on the gospel as we do this thing. Just a mad love on that.

01:27:26

Thank you. Thank you. You don't have to jam out or none. We're just kind of, that's the final, you know, thing, uh,

01:27:32

Kodosh final shout out. And you want to give it a second crack at a prediction about what this is going to, uh, you know, produce, like how many, how many

01:27:39

YouTube videos will be made here? I think there's going to be two crowds out there.

01:27:46

There's, there's, there's those that, you know, the newer generation of Israelites who have a disdain for the camps and would just kind of sweep that aside and say, well, that was all part of their madness anyway, not realizing that those are their predecessors.

01:28:00

Those are the guys that basically forged and handed down what they, you know, the basic tenants of what they subscribe to.

01:28:06

And I think we will get maybe a little bit of a backlash, uh, from some of the older brothers, if, if they've tuned in, um, like we said,

01:28:16

Taha may, may have something to say. You may feel a little bit vindicated about how that whole deal, uh, closed there for him.

01:28:24

So I'm, I'm just, uh, I'm ready for anything anyway. What, what, you know, what I told was, uh, you know, accurate in, in, um, you know, the, the first hand,

01:28:36

I witnessed experiences and stories rehearsed to me from brothers who were firsthand witnesses as well.

01:28:44

Hey, how about this faithful? Cause I liked the way you dropped this real quick. Here's how we're going to end the show. The Scythian passage in Colossians.

01:28:52

First of all, do you remember off the top where that is? Cause I want to read it and then I want to, I want you to explain real quick how you do the significance of the

01:28:58

Scythian in there. Absolutely. So basically that is Colossians three 11. Can I, can

01:29:04

I, can I read it? Yeah, sure. Yes, you can. Uh, where there is neither group, oh man, sorry

01:29:12

I was about to do a thing and I made myself laugh like a, okay, let me, let me just, let me just respect this. Colossians chapter three, verse 11, where there is neither

01:29:20

Greek nor Jew circumcision nor uncircumcision, barbarian,

01:29:26

Scythian, bond nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

01:29:32

What's the significance of that? Cause it's gospel right there. Break it down faithful and that's how we're going to close. You know, basically that is in reference to the

01:29:42

Magogites. Now some might say, well, how do you know that's the Magogites? Well, Josephus who was a natural

01:29:48

Israelite lets us know this in antiquities of the Jews. I'm not mistaken. I believe it's book one and uh,

01:29:56

I not, if I'm not mistaken, it might be section six. Now I could be getting this wrong, but it definitely is an antiquities of the

01:30:03

Jews. And he basically outlined, you know, who the, uh, uh, who the

01:30:09

Scythians are there. Let's let me know that they were originally known as the Magogites and then the Greeks are calling them

01:30:15

Scythians. So that's a non -Israelite people group is the importance of that, a non -Israelite people group.

01:30:20

Now, what about, what about the mummies? Right. They're descendants of Japheth. And if you look in Genesis 10, uh, verse two, we see that the

01:30:29

Magogites are indeed descendants of Japheth. Now here's the kicker. When you do your research on the

01:30:36

Scythians and anybody can do this, uh, first and foremost, you look at what the ancient writers had to say about them.

01:30:44

All of them depict the Scythians as fair haired, fair haired, fair skinned, uh, even going as far as saying that they are golden hair.

01:30:53

And this is the most damaging thing. When you Google search Scythian mummies, you're going to see blonde haired, fair skinned people looking like Brad Pitt up in here, looking like Brad Pitt.

01:31:07

Right, right. And, and that proves definitively that Caucasian people, cause these people were indeed from the

01:31:15

Caucasus mountain that proves definitively that Caucasian people will be saved and they cannot get around that.

01:31:23

They can't make them Israelites. Uh, and, and let me tell you, this also shoots a hole into the whole white man is

01:31:30

Esau doctrine. And if I could add one more thing, just very quickly, in the Septuagint in Job 42 verse 17,

01:31:39

Job by the Israelite translators of the Septuagint, this is 200, 300 years before the time of the apostles,

01:31:47

Job is identified as an Edomite. You're not going to get around that. And guys, the reason why this is important is because the gospel matters.

01:31:57

And when Christ leaves, he says, go into all the world, preaching this gospel to all the nations.

01:32:02

You're going to teach them the commands, teach them how to observe it. You know, basically make disciples, right? Baptize them.

01:32:07

And this is a Trinitarian formula, the name singular of the father, the son and the spirit.

01:32:13

It's a gospel issue, man. And we go Revelation five and we see the completion of that where every nation, tribe and tongue is up in there.

01:32:22

And that's why we say, yes, God chooses. Yes, God has his elect. We're OK with that because that's scriptural.

01:32:29

It's true that he predestined before the foundation of the world was laid in love according to his plan, his purpose.

01:32:36

That's all true. But don't let us dare make the elect only one type of people from which he draws.

01:32:44

Because First John 2 says he is the propitiation for our sins. That means the sacrifice that atones in a satisfactory way.

01:32:52

He is a propitiation for our sins and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And we know the whole world is not saved.

01:32:59

So the sacrifice hasn't been made for literally everyone in the whole world. John uses world in different ways. That's a Greek word cosmos.

01:33:05

And here it's clear he's saying not just for us cats, but cats out there as well. Christ is a propitiation.

01:33:12

And that's where salvation is to be found. And with that, we close out today's broadcast of the dividing line.

01:33:18

Props to Dr. White for letting us do this crazy business. Props to Rich for holding it down. Thank you, faithful to God for joining.

01:33:23

Thank you, Kaddash, for joining. Vocabulona signing out. We're going to do this again next week is the plan.

01:33:29

Man, it's going to get crazy. I don't know what's going to happen over this next week, but we'll just have fun with it either way, because this type of stuff's fun, man.