Jeff and Sye Walked Into A Bar: Conversation w/ "Atheist" (EXPLICIT)

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00:00

Well, that's what man does, but that does not necessarily mean that there is a God. And that doesn't mean there's a higher power.

00:08

It means that it's irrelevant. Your questions are irrelevant. And as yours is. No, mine aren't. See, from my position, see,

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I'm not arguing from your position, see, I'm standing on a different platform. All right, so what's your platform? So, ready, we're standing on two platforms, right?

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So you're standing on a platform here that says our ancestors were fish, there is no God, there's no ultimate cosmic purpose in the universe.

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I'm not saying there's no God, I'm not saying there's no cosmic, I'm not saying... So you're agnostic, not an atheist?

00:35

I'm more agnostic. Okay. I'm more agnostic. So, I believe there's a higher power, I do not believe...

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So that's different than an atheist, though. So you're not an atheist. I believe... We're getting there. So I believe in a

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Mother Earth as an incredible being that is... How do you know that? I don't know that.

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Okay. That is my own logic. So you live by blind faith? I live by logic. Okay, but a moment ago...

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I don't live by... A moment ago, ready, real fast. A moment ago you said you live by logic, and now when

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I asked you a question of how you know something, you said, I don't know it. So you live by faith. You don't live by logic, you live by faith.

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Okay, well, that's a logic in my own world. If I create that in this faith, then

01:15

I can be, then yeah, it could be as true as faith. But in my own logic world of that...

01:21

What logic world is this? Just help me understand it. What logic world? So I have a zero education in religion, first of all.

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Okay. So you can argue me up and down the world and quote scripture and quote all this other stuff. However, for me, scripture is someone's opinion on something that happens.

01:39

Why would that be relevant? It would not be relevant because I could say...

01:45

From your perspective. I'm saying... From my... Why is it relevant? From my perspective, it's not relevant, or it is relevant because in my perspective, if I don't believe in the scripture, or if I believe that maybe the scripture came from someone that was necessarily not true, or someone that was believing in their time where they needed to believe something, which

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I believe in, in the logic world of mankind. So in mankind, let's say we have, let's say we go back and we say, something has happened and we want to make some sort of logic out of that, but we can't.

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So where do we take that logic from? We take it and we put it into faith. Okay. So that's your claim.

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I don't understand where this came from or how this happened or why this is happening in life, but you know what?

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I can take that logic and say, you know what? I could go push that towards faith. So that's where I have a different...

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I lost you there. Now I'm losing you. I was trying to find that. Yeah, I know. I figured it out. So here's the thing.

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So let's go run with... So I work with cancer therapy, cancer patients and horses.

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Okay. Okay. Cancer patients... And horses. And horses. Okay. Okay. I work with a cancer...

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I do other shit. I'm the pilot by trade. I'm very much like, action, reaction.

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You go fuck shit up, shit gets fucked up. You do your right thing, things get right.

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I have a very hard... I don't... You can't... I can't pray myself out of the situation I'm in.

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Okay? I can pray myself out of a situation for my own self, like maybe

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I needed. I'm going through a hard time. I can talk to my mother and I can talk to what I think is

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Jesus or what I think is Mother Earth and try to get some sort of re -consolidation of how that makes me feel.

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However, I know that this action creates... There's action, reaction.

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I believe in action. You don't even have that though. I believe in action, reaction. Without God, you don't even have that. Without the

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God of the Bible, you don't have action, reaction. You can't have causal relationships.

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Why not? Because you don't have a uniform universe that you know that tomorrow will be like today.

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You can't... I don't know that. You don't know that. I don't know that. I don't know that. So ready? So ready?

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So you live by faith completely, blind faith, and the system you just try to create...

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We all live by blind faith. No, no. Christians don't live by blind faith. It's a faith that is rooted in truth, objectivity, evidences, and when you...

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For example, this shows the futility of life apart from God. You've tried to construct a view of the world without God just now where you've given up science, you've given up logic, you've given up all reason and human meaning, and yet you're still trying to construct a system.

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So this is what Christians would point out to you, is that you know the true God, but your problem, like mine, before God reconciles us to himself through what he did in Christ, is sin.

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And so what happens is, because sin corrupts us and all of us, we fall into futility.

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We start constructing systems to live in God's world apart from him where we say, this, but no, not that, and this, but no, not that.

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I believe what you're saying is true. However, I believe in a different, because you're using the word God. Well, there's only one

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God. Well, in your world, there's only one God. No, he's revealed himself. He's revealed himself. But that's not true.

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Well, it is true. In your world, it's true. In my world, it's not. He makes that claim, and you're evidencing it right now.

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You're proving it. Because he says that all people know him, and he's made himself clear to all of us.

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But we suppress the truth about him. We hide it. We hide from God. We don't want him in our knowledge.

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And so we switch him for other gods. We worship Mother Earth. We worship the God of Joseph Smith and Mormonism.

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We worship the God of Islam, Allah. What we do is we fall into futility. Like, for example, we give up science.

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We give up reason, because we don't want God. What I can tell you is that you're brainwashed. Well, that's okay.

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But that's okay. You're brainwashed. No, no, no. That's not true. Can I give you two things real fast?

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One, you didn't answer anything I just said. And two, being brainwashed is fine in your worldview.

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Our ancestors were fish. It's fine for descendants of fish to be brainwashed.

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In my worldview, that's a problem. Calling somebody brainwashed who's an image -bearer of God is offensive, because they're in the image of God.

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And that's not what God is like. But when our ancestors were fish, it's fine to be brainwashed. It's not an insult.

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In your worldview, fish can call each other brainwashed all the time. So can other bags of stardust.

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In my worldview, an image -bearer of God calling another one brainwashed is an insult, because God's not like that.

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I did not mean to insult you. No, no, no. I did not mean to insult you. No, no, from your perspective, it wasn't an insult.

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But you're telling me how it is, and that's where I have a problem with it. But you're telling me how it is from your perspective, so what you're asking me to do is...

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I'm not telling you how it is. You're telling me how it is. I'm telling you how it is for me. Right. And you're telling me how it is.

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That's where I have the problem. Okay, so I'm telling you how it is for me. Sure.

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No, no, I understand. And listen to me. Yeah. When you and I are on our deathbeds, and we both look at each other at our deathbeds,

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Sir, relax, listen. No, listen. It's clear to me now that you've been drinking. When you and I are both on our deathbeds. Listen, listen. It's clear to me now you've been drinking, and you're getting very aggressive.

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So if you want to have a rational, calm, gentle discussion, I'm happy to do that. I want to.

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But if you want to be in a drunken stupor and be aggressive, I'm not in that game. If you want to throw that out to me, that's fine.

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Okay. Well, it's clear you're getting aggressive now, and I'm not interested in that. I'm not interested in it. Okay. But what

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I'm interested in... So if you can stay calm, I'll talk to you. But what I'm interested in is you not telling me how it is...

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What if God told you how it was? ...and me telling you how it is for me? What if God told you how it was?

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Would you listen to him? Yeah, that'd be great. You know what? So what if I told you we have his revelation, and he says that you need him, and he'll give you life and forgiveness and peace if you turn from sin to trust in him?

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What if that was his revelation to you? That's a message of life, not death. What if I told you the way

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I go in life is from sin, from being kind...

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What's kindness? Our ancestors were bacteria. What's your standard of kindness?

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Because doesn't the thief think that he's allowed to live the way he wants? No. He does.

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That's why they have prisons. They do what they want. I'm not justifying a thief. I know you're not. I'm not justifying sin.

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I'm saying preach the gospel of agnosticism to him. Tell him why he should be good.

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Think about that. I am trying to say... I'm listening.

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...that I believe in something. I believe that's true, by the way,

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I do. And I do believe that mankind has the ability, and not only the ability but the drive, to do the right thing.

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What's the right thing? Mankind drives for what you're talking about.

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Everything that you... If you could put all that and not put a name to it, the feeling, the actions, how you treat your fellow mankind,

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How should we treat each other? All that other stuff. With respect, with courtesy, Why?

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With love. Excuse me. Because we are driven to do that.

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But what drives us? Our ancestors were bacteria. That doesn't matter. It does matter.

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It could matter, yeah. It does matter, because if that's our origins, then that's fundamentally what we are.

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There's no obligation to be good to one another. I'm saying, why can't bacteria evolve into something great?

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Because there's no standard of great in a godless universe of bacteria evolving into something that wasn't planned.

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Why do things have to be planned? Why can't you have a beautiful flower to show up?

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Because there's no beauty apart from God with a standard of beauty. There's no good apart from God with an absolute standard of good outside of yourself and your preferences.

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When you reject God, you lose beauty, truth, goodness, logic, science, reason, ethics.

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You give it all up. It's funny, because I have all of that. Yes, you do.

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I have all of that. Yes, you do. Because you're in the image of God. Well, you might think that.

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Well, that's what God says. God might say that, but you know what? God also said that there was a reason why she died, and when

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I was eight years old, that did not fly away. Can I say this to you? When I was eight years old, my mother's best friend was a pastor, and he told me that on her deathbed.

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This is God's will. You know what I said to God that day? I said, fuck you. Because that wasn't that. It wasn't

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God's will that my mother died. Well, can I ask you this question? She died of a melanoma cancer that killed her.

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Yeah. So in my world, that's a very... And that was painful. That was a...

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I've had a lot of death and a lot of problems in my life, but you know what? That has nothing to do with God. Well, it's everything to do with God.

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Most of that's all... There's a reason why. Can I tell you why? Well, it can be, but most of that's science -based. Well, can I tell you why? In my mind, that's science -based.

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Can I answer why? Go ahead. First, it hurt when your mother died. It hurt when all these friends have died that you've loved.

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But it only gets to hurt and be meaningful if God is who he says he is.

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Because if the world is as you say it is, then what happened to your mother just happened, and you know that's not true.

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No, that's not true. And you know that's not true. Do not tell me that... No, you're not hearing me. You're not hearing me. You're telling me that I hurt and that I grieve because there is a

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God, and that is not true. And that's true, because your mom has value. Your mom had dignity. Your mom had worth.

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But in the worldview that you're now postulating, that our ancestors were fish, none of that's meaningful.

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I know, but that's where we come from completely different worlds. That was a real good conversation. Really good conversation, yeah. Can I buy you a drink or buy you a glass of water?

12:23

No, I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I was actually getting ready to head back out to my room. Should I get you anything else before you leave?

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I'll take a Bud Light. Bud Light, thank you. All right. I really appreciate your conversation. But the only problem

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I have is I don't want someone to tell me that the way I feel or the way things are is because there is one

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Christian God, okay? Well, there is only one God. And whether you and I accept that truth or not, our feelings don't affect truth.

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And the thing I want to point out to you is that all of the things that you're bringing up of pain, that's real by the way, but that pain you point to makes sense in my world view, not in yours.

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Because again, if we are in the world you say where we've evolved into the primordial ooze.

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Stop that. Stop that. But it's true. I know, but that was a long time ago, okay?

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And it means you're fundamentally that nature. And just because... What's wrong with that nature? What's wrong with that nature?

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If there is no transcendent meaning with God as the reference point, then all you still have is stuff.

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That's it. It's stuff. And what's... How is it stuff when it's living? It heals.

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It breathes. You're talking about a nervous system. Exactly. A nervous system is not a standard of morality.

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Thank you. Nervous systems aren't standards of morality. You have to have something that exists outside the nervous system.

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You can't say it hurts, so therefore don't do it. That's not a standard of morality. That's just what happens to stuff in this godless universe.

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That, to me... Nervous systems have evolved from action -reaction. That's how I believe we have a morality.

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No, but... Where can I touch this? I believe the morality has come from action -reaction, learning -learning.

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But you don't get action and reaction. You already said you don't know tomorrow will be like today. No. Neither do you.

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So you don't get reaction -reaction. I do know. I do have a basis to believe that nature is uniform because I believe in the god who actually personally governs it, stepped into it, and told us about himself.

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And he tells us that he ordains the universe, sovereignly governs it, and he declares the end from the beginning.

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He upholds it. And so I have a basis for science. I have a basis for logic and reason. I have a basis for ethics.

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You want those things, and you said a moment ago, I do all these things. And the answer is, yes, you do. Because you're in the image of God, but you're in rebellion against him.

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And the message of the gospel is that there is life and forgiveness as a gift because of what

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Jesus did, not because of what you could ever do. However, let's say you take Jesus out of the situation.

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Impossible. Completely out. It's impossible. Let's say you do. You can't because he's the necessary precondition.

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But let's say you do. But you couldn't. But let's say you did. All of your reasoning right now presupposes him.

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That's not true. It does. So it is true. But then what happened before Jesus when all my ancestors had these same feelings?

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Because they were in the image of God. He made the world. So then why can't you take Jesus out of it?

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He made the world. I know, but why can't you take Jesus out of it? Because Jesus is the truth and the necessary foundation for everything you're doing.

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So what happened a million years before him? He's eternally God. He's always existed as God forever.

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He's the reference point of all of our questions. So listen. So here's my thing.

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Okay. So let me take your Jesus and your God and put him as a way mankind and other things should look up to and live towards.

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Right? But let me take away that person completely. God and Jesus.

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Let me take him away. You want to, yes. No, I don't want to. Let's just say he doesn't exist. Let's say that we fabricated him.

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All your reasoning. We fabricated him. All your reasoning. Because our us as us as human beings the way we've evolved are funneling towards this point.

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And that point has become some great philosophers said Jesus Christ and God.

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That's where we're going. And that's the person. And that's and this is what he's preached and this is what he's done.

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By looking back at all this greatness that we've accomplished as human beings. All this love.

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All this care. You realize that's not that's actually not what's happened. But listen. I'm just saying. What if?

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Right? What if? What if in my mind what if in my mind I believe that you and I are on the same path.

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You're you're funneled a little bit harder towards an existence of Jesus and God.

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My beliefs are let's say match with you. Except they're not.

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Except but except I don't put a Jesus and a God with it. But let's say I I agree on let's say you and I walk up on a homeless person and we want to go do something.

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Let's say you come to my Cancer Equestrian Throat program and you want to come work with cancer patients with me with horses to show them

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You're losing me. I've lost you. I'm trying to follow you. I've lost you.

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Yeah. So you're going different directions and I'm not. I'm not going different directions. Okay. I mean I don't know where you go with with preaching.

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I don't know if it's just God and Jesus and everything else. I don't know. Well when you My faith is not a hypothetical.

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My faith I You said it was a hypothetical. I work with cancer patients and I work with equestrians.

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Okay. I work with horses. Yes. And I work with programs that bring light I reduce stress

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I prolong life and I help them realize you can take control of a life that's uncontrolled through an animal and do something

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It's something totally different. I don't bring God into it. It is a Yeah. Yeah.

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It is a It is a It is It is my own work that I do for the community.

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No I hear you. And so what? And I know you do work for the community. But here's But at the same time Why can't Why can't my funneling

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Why can't my funneling of the goodness that I do There's no goodness. There's no goodness. There's no goodness in it.

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If I don't believe in Jesus You have no standard of goodness. No. Outside of yourself. Okay. You have no standard of goodness outside of yourself.

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All you have is a preference and you're not in charge of the thief the liar the rapist the adulterer

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You're not in charge of them. Neither are you. Well God is. And I'm not speaking

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I'm not speaking from my own authority. I'm speaking from the authority. He is the ultimate authority.

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Okay. Or it could be action reaction. In your prep there is no action reaction. You gave it up already. Because you know what the thief the thief that goes and fucks up fucked up.

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Let me answer. Let me answer. There's no fucking up in your world view. There's just what happens. So what?

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No there is a standard. No there's no such thing. There's no standards. There is standards. There's no If you go and betray me then there's a standard that you betray me.

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That's your own personal preference as a bag of biological stuff in a purposeless universe.

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Okay. and that doesn't that doesn't control the thief the liar the adulterer the murderer. Okay. All you have is you one bag of biological stuff in a cosmically indifferent universe.

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And you have no standards of morality outside of yourself. You have preferences. But you're not in charge of the thief.

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Why do I have no standards of why do I have no standards of morality? You have no objective standard outside of yourself. All you have is preference.

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Why can't I look up to people and look up to mankind? Because because when you tell me in a universe where you evolved from scum that I feel like we should do this.

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That's not in charge of anybody. It's not a standard except your preference. And that's that's not a standard.

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That's a subjective personal preference. That's not an objective standard of good at all.

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And so what I can say to you every time you speak when you bring up these standards of goodness I can say this to you. So what?

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And there's no answer from your world view. And here's my argument. That's life rejecting

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God. That's what you're left with. And so the message that I have for you is the same message that I needed.

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It's that God became man in the person of Christ to redeem rebels like you and me to forgive us because we deserve hell.

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Because we rebel against him. And he came and died a death that we deserve lived righteously and rose from the dead.

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I do a lot of good, brother. You really offend me, though. If you turn from sin and trust in him you'll be forgiven.

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You really offend me, though that I am Why are you offended? Because you're saying that your ancestors were fish. I'm stardust.

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You're stardust. But I don't care where I came from. I am who I am right now. But there's no value to either of us.

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It's the same thing for the thief, right? Who becomes good, right? There's no good. So let's say you have someone that thieves or rapes as a child, right?

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So what? Let's say he takes in God in your world and he goes and does good. Is he now just scum because he was once a thief?

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No, he's an image bearer. Now we're in my world view. That's an image bearer of God who violated his creator's standards.

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God saved him. He was redeemed and forgiven and God paid for his sins. Now if in your world view it was stardust moving on the surface of the cosmos.

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So what? So do you see the difference there? I do. Between your position and God.

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But do you see the difference that when I'm not a thief, I'm not a rapist.

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I do a ton for my community. I donate money. I work. I give fish to my...

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I give... I feed my local church with fish. Can I say something? I do all sorts of stuff.

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But listen. But why am I scum because I consume fish?

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No, no, no. You were saying that my... That's your view. You were saying that I am I am... I am nobody...

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I don't believe that. ...because I don't believe in this being. No, I don't believe that. So I'm wondering why I'm not accepted.

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Ready? Here. Ready? I'm wondering why I'm not accepted. I'm answering. I don't believe that about you.

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I do not believe that about you. That's your new debate. That's your position.

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I'm telling you what happens in your world view believing that. That's not true and it's not my view of you.

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You're trying to tell me what my world view is. No, I asked you. My world view is a very happy view. I asked you.

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I have a very happy world. I am a very religious person in my own way. No, you are.

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I do not believe in a God and I don't believe in Jesus Christ. You're very religious. I believe in a Mother Earth and I believe in I know.

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You worship the creation. I believe in I believe in a mankind that has evolved.

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Can I quote a verse to you so you can hear what the Bible says? Sure. Yeah, I would love to hear that. It says that God's wrath is poured out upon people who suppress the truth about Him in unrighteousness.

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That that which is known about Him is evident within them for He showed it to them.

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Since the whole world began, the creation of the world, it's been testifying to us about God.

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And it says that what we do is we don't want God in our knowledge so we become fools and we switch

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God for idols and we worship listen to what it says in Romans 1. We worship the creature, the creation, rather than the creator which is precisely and I mean this humbly and respectfully to you what you've done here is that you've been acting as an image bearer of God pleading for all the things you can only have with God while holding

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Him down and then you've said what? Mother Earth, that's my God. That's exactly what

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Romans 1 says that we do because of our sin. You anticipate that I am holding

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Him down? That's what He says. That's what He says. That's what God says. Yes. I mean in your world because if I am someone that doesn't believe in Him that is so I have to say

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You do believe in Him. But listen to me. It's evident all over your life. But just listen to me. Okay. If I don't believe in Jesus Christ and God then when

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I say you it is not necessarily fair for you to say that is what

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He thinks because I don't believe in that. Oh no, no, no. Do you see what I'm saying? Let me clarify.

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You mean when I said what your position was? No, when you say this is what God thinks and this is how it is.

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This is what He says. Yes. So when you say this is how it says Joel wants to make sure he gets to talk to you.

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Oh, okay. Okay, yeah. So when you say this is how God says this and this is how

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He is and this is how you are repressing Him. Yes. This is the problem

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I have. I just asked you to respect me. I do. To not bring

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Him up and allow me That's the problem.

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to say to say your belief so I'm asking you to say to admit that you're saying you are telling me because you're a messenger of God Yeah.

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that you are telling me that I am doing wrong and I'm repressing Him in your mind.

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I'm not actually repressing God. I'm repressing your beliefs. But, but Can I answer? That's what

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I want to get to. Two things I know you want to say something. Two things. Two things. You said it a minute ago and I'll make sure

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I don't make sure I don't forget it because it's very important you hear this probably the most important thing at this point is you said

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I do good I take care of people I do all these things okay and I'm not denying that you do those things but the

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Bible says because we're sinners we've sinned against a holy

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God and we are nothing like Him and all the good things that we think we're doing because we're at war with Him are like filthy rags before Him we've fallen so short so when you say

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I do good not according to God's standards you and I both are worthy of hell and condemnation according to God's standards you and I are both worthy of being separated from Him but that's what makes the good news such good news is that God loves sinners so much that He lives the life that they have utterly failed in their place and He dies a death that they should take and He rises from the dead and He calls you to come to Him to turn from your sin to be joined to Him that's the story but you but here's the thing key word yeah and I love that yeah my sister is goes to is a

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Presbyterian yeah he's a Presbyterian and I was brought up you've heard this story before I've been brought up I'm a Presbyterian and you know what

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I love? what? I love the story it's true I'm raising a one year old and a three year old and a seven year old and I tell them stories mhm okay

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I tell them stories about morals I tell them stories about everything else I don't preach I don't we're not religious but I tell them stories about about I try to create stories to guide them the right ways why?

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my sister because it's effective because it works for what? because it works for what?

27:56

because it because it do you have any children? I sure do four of them they're hard right? but why?

28:02

children are hard you have you have your scripture that you go for I'm making my own shit up okay? I know you are so I'm just saying but see standards that's not necessarily a bad thing because I have great kids okay?

28:12

so I'm saying would it be okay to teach them to hurt others? no why? why would you pick love instead of hurt?

28:19

why? because hurt is not is not a good thing to do says who? you're a bag of stardust don't according to you don't we don't

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I don't tell my children I'm a bag of stardust I tell them I'm their father but no no no no and I'm trying to teach them good morals no no but that's what you believe they are

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I don't believe that no they're they're children they're your children and you love them because they're in the image of God but your belief about the world is their stardust who cares where we came from?

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right in one way it's what you are in one way who cares where we came from? let's deal with today okay let's deal with right now today you are let's deal with right now excellent and let's move forward today you are evolved pond scum in a godless universe that's your position

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I know but but it's funny because you you go and you you go and and offend me like that no no no no

29:07

I don't believe that you just said you are evolved pond scum no I don't believe that in a godless universe I don't believe that that's your position

29:14

I don't I don't believe that either okay I've never looked at myself I've never had anyone tell me that I'm pond scum so there's a

29:21

God and I believe in a godless universe except for yourself so is there is there a God? is there a God now?

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I just want you to think one thing okay take out of anything out of this you're the first person to tell me that I'm pond scum no no no

29:33

I don't believe that about you you just told me that in a godless universe in a godless universe that's your universe not his that's yours that's not my position

29:41

I'm just saying I don't believe that about you is that offensive? you've brought it up many times that I'm a pond scum that I'm from fish in a godless universe that's the universe you've created

29:51

I know but let me I don't believe that about you I understand that so why are you offended by it?

29:57

but listen it's your world view but listen I don't necessarily go and tell myself you've said you think

30:03

I live in that world? that's what you've said that you've believed about the universe I don't believe in Jesus Christ I don't believe in God I believe in a higher power you believe that you've evolved from fish

30:12

I do I believe in a higher so Adam is the scum? yes okay so what does that make you?

30:17

I just I just make it I just find it very interesting and I find it actually very offensive

30:23

I think it's offensive too that you keep on saying that over and over I don't believe it I don't believe it either but you admit as you do that that's what you believe that you evolved from that and you say but you keep on bringing it up over and over again right

30:37

I understand that that's a very why would it be offensive to you if you believe it? because you're in the image of God and you know it's offensive

30:45

I'm gonna let I'm gonna let you think about why that's offensive oh I know because I know you're not that you're in the image of God you are valuable you have worth you have dignity you are worthy of my love but that's that's with God and you keep on offending me then but in your world no no no no

31:05

I'm telling you what your position is this is where here's what's funny here's the funniest thing about it you keep on saying my world yeah your world view this is our world no no it's the world you've created yeah this is a view yes it's your world view however this is our world it's

31:23

God's world it's our world it's God's world and you have created a story that you tell yourself and when

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I point out to you this is what you'd be left with you'd be pond scum you'd say oh that's so offensive and then

31:40

I say but don't you believe it you say yes and the only reason somebody would be offended by being pond scum is if they really weren't pond scum if they were in the image of God if you're image of God that's a pond scum what if I told you you came from pond scum and you are this incredible man preaching what you do and do a great great service for many but I'm not not like myself but you do you do a great service but I would say this you do a great service for many

32:12

I would say you're a much better man than I am I would try here's what I would try I'm not good no no no listen you are when you come to uplifting and giving belief and faith is huge you do a great when

32:24

I work with cancer patients you know what they say if you embrace I have a friend dying right now she says they said she's not religious she's

32:31

Mormon and she's never embraced her faith and her doctor is saying embrace it now because you know what statistically the ones that do embrace and do believe live longer

32:41

I've heard that it is a it is a no it's a scientific it's a scientific proof of fact yeah yeah okay so let me just say that is true however you're talking like a

32:52

Christian right now you're not talking like the agnostic any longer you're not talking like the person who believes what you said you believe you're talking like a

33:00

Christian here's my problem why can't I just talk like a human being because why do you have to put a why do you have to put a label on it and a name on it because and why can't

33:12

I live when you say the word human being I have to ask you what's that what what's a human being why does that matter like why don't

33:21

I talk to you like a rock why don't you talk to me like a horse why don't I talk to you like a horse or a seal or a great white shark or a piece of sand or an orca and the difference you and I both know human beings are unique and they're made in the image of God they're not there that's the difference they're not there oh so they're not now well they're unique but we have a lot of unique animals out there which is it we have a lot of unique animals out there do you see what happens when you try to be consistent you give up value for humans and then you say talk to me like a human being and when

33:53

I say what's so unique about that you say well nothing no yeah humans are incredibly unique but there's also says who how says us well that isn't that doesn't say anything because if I start calling a rock unique and I worship it and I tell you respect it are you are you are you under now obligation because I call it valuable are you are you under obligation now to give it praise and to love it and to treat it with respect you're not because it's a rock and you know there's a difference between a rock and a human because you're in the image of God and you know him but what about a fish or a dog or a horse not image of God there are beautiful creatures that we should respect and treat well because they're

34:40

God's creations there's not an image of God but they're not image of God no God created creatures and then he created man and he made him uniquely in his image that's why do you eat burgers we're just do you eat hamburgers

34:55

I do you do we're just we're off so watch how come you eat hamburgers but not people we're off people don't taste good so okay so ready but you would if it tasted good no so what makes why no what if I made it taste real good no would you eat it no okay why because we're we're an evolved being so are horses so are cows so are so is every other living creature you see supposedly in your position they're all evolved they're not they're evolved they're evolved but they're not but that's just that is just not evolved enough that is just the world we live in not evolved enough that's just the world so you live by blind faith commitments just cause okay ready

35:38

I'm gonna use your argument now ready since you just said it's just cause just cause ready God exists just cause just cause okay doesn't work does it here's what

35:49

I encourage you to do think about what you've been told tonight the good news that was given to you that though you are a sinner like me like my friend

35:59

Cy here and though you and I and you specifically right now outside of Christ are worthy of condemnation you sat here tonight with somebody who gave you a message of love and life and peace that if you would turn from your sin to put your faith in Jesus you would be reconciled to God to have peace with Him you would be forgiven and be given the gift of eternal life as a gift through what

36:22

Jesus did that's what happened here tonight okay let me tell you what happened here tonight okay you got to sit with someone that gives love gives life gives hope gives education and gives forward direction for the people

36:39

I deal with to move forward and to do better oh I know you do those things

36:45

I preach some of what you say however I'm not looking for forgiveness can

36:54

I give you the answer? sure and I'm using your professed belief about the world to do it what you told me is the world we live in I'm not telling you what the world we live in you did tell me

37:09

I'm not telling you what the world we live in I'm telling you how I perceive it I know let me answer

37:15

I'm not trying to take any of my I'm not taking the only thing I said that was offensive to you is saying

37:21

I'm not offended was saying I felt the little bit of a brainwash of God and Jesus yeah

37:27

I'm not offended you didn't offend me and I totally I take that back you didn't offend me but this is what

37:32

I'm saying here's my answer this is my belief okay and here's where here's where I think it's fair I am a man yeah you're a man size me yeah and I think it's only fair for us to respect one another

37:46

I do as long as we're going in the right path if Si is sitting there doing the wrong thing

37:52

I would like to help him wrong right wrong right value respect well then we go back to God you're acting like an image you're acting like an image image bearer of God well yeah

38:01

I might be an image bearer of God but I might let me put a different name on it you are let me put a different name on it you are that's the beauty that's all

38:07

I'm asking that's the beauty that's all I'm asking is let me put a different name on it yeah you want all why not I'm sorry you're

38:12

Mr. Durbin yes I am I'm Alex very nice to meet you nice to meet you I don't know who you are but I'm Alex nice to meet you nice to meet you

38:18

Kevin you guys have a good night yeah God bless you see you here's the thing do you see what just happened and I don't mean this in any way to jab you

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I want you just to think okay you said okay

38:32

I need to do all these things I do all these things and maybe I am an image of God but can we call it something else maybe maybe can

38:38

I just call it something but not Jesus it's everything you can because of sin to get away from God see that part

38:46

I just I mean I think it would take another 50 hours for me to understand okay would you do this is this yours is this yours it's my credit card

38:56

I'm going to write something down okay this is my just a way to get a hold of me okay my name is

39:07

Jeff why don't you why don't you think about what I talk about you can look me up and you can message me and we'll talk some more okay

39:17

I had a pleasure talking to you I didn't talk to you and I did not mean to be a drunken stupor and be offensive no no no no

39:22

I listen I you did not offend me I'm not offended I I considered it a privilege to talk to you however

39:28

I would really like to express my feelings that for someone to go the right path let's say we call it something different let's say you are mute okay let's say both of you lose all three of us lose our ability to speak so we can't talk but what we do is we go out the three of us together and we go do our thing and we find it extremely similar not only extremely similar but you look at me and say

40:05

I just learned from him for the way he behaved with somebody and I just learned from Sai the way he behaved from him and Sai learned from you and I learned from you the three of us learn from each other except we're mute okay and there is no texture there's no scripture and there's no there's no verbal communication then there'd be nothing to learn no there's a because what

40:29

Sai would do and what I would do may be different maybe Sai goes out and he hurts people and he kills people and he he chases down little kids and I go

40:37

I'll follow his lead but no but let's say I'll follow his lead no but let's say you don't let's say we shy shy him why?

40:43

why don't we follow him? no but let's say we do because we can't talk and we know that's wrong why don't we follow him? and then when he realizes and he comes to us and he looks at us and he is he is crying or whatever else and we give him a hug and we accept him but we don't we don't put a name to it how do you know it's wrong?

40:59

I'm just saying you said follow each other take your world what if I follow him into all those things sir take your world and mute yourself

41:08

I would just be a mute bag of stardust in your world he would do lots of good as if he was stardust in your world here's the thing if you two did the exact same thing he helps an old lady to cross the street you help an old lady to cross the street you know what that would do for you as a non -Christian?

41:29

it would add to your condemnation so all those things that you list as being good are actually wicked in the sight of God and let me explain to you why that is you do something that you perceive as good if I ask

41:41

Jeff why do you help the old lady to cross the street do you know what he'll say? because it's in the image of God God is good helping that old lady is what

41:49

God is if I ask you why do you help the old lady to cross the street you'll say because she needed help to cross the street she needed help good for society what goes around comes around God says

41:59

I am the standard of goodness and you know what you're saying to God? that's what you're saying to the God that gave you every breath the next breath in your life that gave you that beard that gave you everything

42:08

God says I am good that's why helping that lady is good and you're saying you're giving

42:14

God the finger you're saying no it's not because of you it's because of me you're making yourself God so all those things that you say that you're doing good for your work you're helping all that if I ask you why they're good whatever reason you give every reason is going to be not

42:28

God not God not God not God if I ask Jeff why is this good he'll say God God God God see because we're creating the image of God to imitate him why does

42:40

God why does God want to help you help a lady cross the street though? that's what he's like he's love he is love why would

42:47

God want to help a lady cross the street? God is love God is love because he thinks she needs help because she needs help across the street?

42:54

because love your neighbor as you love yourself I know but if I love somebody and I help them across the street why am

43:00

I giving the finger to God? because you don't do it to bring him glory if it's not done in faith it's sin if it's not done in trust and submission to God it's sin here's the question why is stealing wrong?