Dead Men Walking Podcast Greg Moore & Jason Hamlin COVID19 & Black Lives Matter Episode 14

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down there. Oh, wait, let's get it recording here.

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Hey, guys, welcome. Facebook live that you're watching. We're trying something new here.

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We're gonna record an episode tonight. While we're live streaming if you're watching and you're having problems with audio or something like that, or can't hear us or can't see us.

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Just leave a comment. Our fearless co host Jason over here is going to be monitoring the live feed.

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I think. Yeah, he can be. Yeah, I'll definitely I'll definitely try. Is there a few things?

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I have a few notes that I got to go through. Yeah, but what? Yeah, I can always get it on the table.

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Make it. Yeah. Are you comfortable like that? Oh, man. Yes. So hunched over.

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I've been at work all day. My back hurts like my does it help to go forward? I mean, sometimes

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Yeah, man, it I mean, doing manual labor, you're it depends on which which muscles you're using that day, right?

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You know, especially in the factory situation, right? So we haven't officially started yet.

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So we're still just going through and setting this up. But these guys on Facebook can watch it guys, we're going to start here in a few minutes with the episode.

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I was going to try to is this gonna as it's playing?

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Is it going to? Yeah, you might want to keep keep the keep the audio down on it.

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I was just saying just if you look at comments, you can see if anyone's in there. Is anyone in there watching? Or? Yeah, we got seven.

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Okay. Welcome. Yeah. All right. Can you see who it is? You probably can if you scroll down there.

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I want to say hi. This is this podcast called two old white guys trying to use technology.

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Right. All right. You want to go? Sure. These guys on Facebook are getting a little behind the scenes.

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So this is what Jason and I do a little bit, maybe a little bit of like two and a half minutes of prep. Yeah, it's great.

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And then we start. Okay, here we go. Exploring theology, doctrine, and all of the fascinating subjects in between.

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Broadcasting from an undisclosed location, dead men walking still. starts. Hello, everyone.

02:47

Welcome to another episode of dead men walking. Jason, how are you, sir? Great, great. Hey, listen, we've got a topical episode for you.

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But I'm gonna have Jason read our proof texts that we're going to be talking about and kind of swirling around as the foundation for this episode.

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So Jay, can you read Romans 13, one through four for us? Yep. Let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God.

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And those exist. And those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore, whoever resists the authorities resists what

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God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad.

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Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority, then do what is good, and you will receive his approval.

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For he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain.

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For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.

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That is a powerful set of verses. And yes, very popular right now.

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It seems like on social media and in churches. Yeah, with everything that's going on tonight's episode, we wanted to or today's episode, depending on this morning's episode, whenever you're listening to it.

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We kind of wanted to focus on a couple topical things. I think we wanted to touch on the

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COVID -19 pandemic and the Christian response to it, as well as also going on right now we have the

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Black Lives Matter and the kind of civil unrest and the

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Christian response to it. And we just felt that Romans 13 was just a great place to kind of lay the foundation for that discussion.

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Because everything that we do as Christians has to come through the worldview of the

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Bible, and line it up against that. I feel that maybe there are a lot of Bible believing

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Christians out there that sometimes and I'm guilty of this as well. And I'm sure you are too, to where we let the secular culture influence us over the gospel culture, the biblical culture, what the

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Word says. So we were just going to sit down and have a conversation. I know we had a lot of people reach out to us on our

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Instagram and Facebook page, and really wanted to know thoughts on COVID -19, the civil unrest that's going on in the country.

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Those are two huge topics. Yeah, a lot of people talking about it.

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I don't know if you can really come out of those subjects and say you're absolutely right. And you're absolutely wrong.

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Maybe you can. I do know there's a lot of difference opinion, even within the church.

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Let alone, even within the Christian community. There seems to be a lot of external influences that are kind of shaping how leaders and pastors and churchgoers and Bible believing

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Christians are responding to those two subjects. So I figure we'll jump right in. You want to start with COVID?

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I mean, we kind of touched on that. We've been doing this right through COVID. So we kind of touched on it a few times.

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Just briefly. There's a lot to bring to the table. I mean, the mask issue, the governing issue that just came out today from Governor Whitmer here in good old state of Michigan, and getting fined and what how businesses are responding.

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Yeah. So for those listening or watching that, to what

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Jason just said, so we just had an executive order signed by our governor here in the state of Michigan that said if you are not wearing a mask in public, or in a place of business, that you will be fined $500.

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Isn't that by July 13? I think is the I think it is. Okay, it's here in the next few days.

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Yeah. Yeah. And there was a lot of kind of recoil from that from a lot of people in the state of Michigan.

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We were actually going in the opposite direction of, you know, the the phases of reopening and getting back to normal.

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We're actually taking a step back in Michigan, even though COVID deaths are down COVID cases are down.

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We seem to be going in the opposite direction. But yeah, the biggest questions

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I've been getting from people is how do you respond to that as a Christian, right? And I can tell you that, you know, the same

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Christians that say, Hey, wear a mask, it's the law, we should obey the government.

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Romans 13. I say measure everything against the word. Government was put into place for those who for the to keep those to continue to act righteously, as we just read in verse four,

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Romans 13. So I've kind of come across this where we, you know, both sides of the fence, kind of use the same text, right?

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Right. And when I look at Romans 13, when it comes to a soft tyranny, kind of like wearing a mask or a secondary tax, or, you know, over regulation of personal freedoms and businesses,

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I, I classify those as a soft tyranny. I look at what

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Paul's saying, and I don't think we can make an argument for Romans 13. That says, whatever the government says we're supposed to do because God put the government in control and instituted its authority.

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In fact, it says something very different to me in those verses. Definitely. We all know right now that if, you know, as Bible believing

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Christians, if the government, you know, made theft legal, we would still say, well, our moral standard, according to the

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Bible says, we're not going to steal, right, right. We saw this with slavery.

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Within the church, we had something that was legal and not moral. We see this with abortion.

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Yeah, right. We see something that's legal, but not moral. So there's all kinds of examples throughout our history, to where the church has actually stepped back and said,

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Well, no, just because it's instituted as legal by our governments, whether local, state or federal, the law of God supersedes that, right.

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And the early church struggled with this as well, even down to gathering, they weren't allowed to gather, which is going on under Rome.

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Right, some parallels there, right? Some stuff out in California going on right now. But that's a, that's a great point.

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What did the early church do? Did they say, Oh, okay, right. Rome said, we can't gather

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Paul says we're supposed to listen to the authorities. So we're not going to gather. Didn't they tell Paul to stop spreading the gospel?

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Sure. I think he was imprisoned a few times. But he kept preaching. Yeah, exactly.

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So so anyone, I feel if they're a Christian that says, well, Romans 13, you have to listen to what the government says, because it's been instituted by God.

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I think they're missing the point of Romans 13. I think they're missing the really important point.

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And you want to I think I have, I wanted you to read that verse four again, I have, I have a version here that I don't like, and I don't know why it's out here in my office.

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And I think, did you have ESV? Is that what you're from? Yeah, ESV. Yeah. And I think it's verse three and three and four, maybe.

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Yeah. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but bad, but to bad.

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Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority, then do what is good, and you will receive his approval.

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For he is God's servant, for you, you're good. But then there's something in there, like, well, why do you think they carry guns and swords and weapons, right?

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Because if you're doing something evil, you're going to get reprimanded. Yeah. Because I think people have to look at the of why the law was even instituted.

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And when I say law, I'm talking about Mosaic law, God's law. He was basically saying in Paul said it, it's like, it's like a mirror, it shows you that you are flawed, the law does, right?

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I think I was watching a video by, I don't know, maybe Dennis Prager. And he was talking about, you know, if once again, if theft was legalized tomorrow, would thefts go up?

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Well, yeah, right, they would, right? Because the consequence of the law helps keep our unrighteousness in check our sinful nature in check.

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I'm going to tell you right now, you could have the most devout Bible believing Christian, but if you were allowed to take an extra $20 from a business owner, or you know,

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I don't know, cheat on your taxes. And we say cheap, but it was legal to do so. Yeah, you would do it.

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Yeah, a lot of people would do it. I'm not saying you personally, saying a lot. If anyone from the

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IRS, wait, wait, he's joking. We don't want an audit. But that's the whole point is we're fallen sinful.

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Rocky five. Rocky five. Did you ever see that movie? I don't know him by number.

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Okay, so Rocky five. He's like, super broke. He lost everything. He goes back to Philadelphia or whatever.

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Okay. And at the end, the guy's like, I'm sorry, interrupting biblical discussion with Rocky five.

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This this promoter says you hit me I'll sue and Rocky turns around. All of a sudden he just hits him.

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He's like Sue me for what? Wait, so talking about not paying your taxes made you think of that?

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I was just thinking about getting sued early, you know, or whatever. It's fine. Right?

12:41

Yeah. Rocky five. Go and check it out, everybody. Yeah. So this is this episode's a promo essentially for 25 year old movie.

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Is that what we're doing Hey, man, box set. They keep coming out with those things, too.

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He keeps pumping them out. Sorry. Okay, let's go back to the Bible. This is cool. No. So like I was saying, when you try to Institute Romans 13, to say, if the government tells you to do something, just because it's the law.

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Well, I think we as Christians have a lot of arguments against a lot of things that's happened in this country that we say no, it might be legal, but it's not moral.

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Right. And I think what the law does is it keeps the sinful nature and the unrighteous man.

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And when I say man, I'm talking about mankind in check. Right? There are some people that don't do unmoral acts, just because they're scared of the consequence.

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Okay, or they're fearful of the consequence. In fact, I think there are some people out there that would probably do some very severe unrighteous acts, whether it be murder, extortion, or theft, or, you know, some type of physical harm to someone else.

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And the reason they don't do it, or they're discouraged by it is because the law says there's consequences for that.

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Right. And that's what Paul's saying here. He goes, look at the leaders, the authorities of the government have been set up according to that principle of God's law.

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Meaning, they will not or they should not basically mess with the righteous, or throw the righteous in jail, or if you're being peaceable and obeying the law, not arrest you or, you know, harm you or back then heck torture you and kill you.

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But if you are doing something immoral or illegal, then yeah, of course, in verse four, why do you think they have the sword to enforce that?

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And that principle has been instituted by God. Okay, he's talking to Jews, and some

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Gentiles there, but in talking from a Jewish standpoint as well.

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I mean, that's why the Jews had the law. That's why God gave the Jews the law to set them apart from other people.

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We talked about this on past podcasts about eye for an eye, meaning equal punishment under the law.

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Right. So for me, when someone says Romans 13, we have to do whatever the government says,

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I says, Well, that's just not what those verses are talking about. Right. You know, and I think that trickles down into some of the things we're seeing now with COVID.

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You know, in California, you cannot worship, you can't open your mouth and sing at church during praise and worship.

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There's places in other states where you can't gather because of this. And you have to realize,

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I look at everything and say, Well, what what are the what's the whole picture? Right?

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Because if you just watch cable news, and you watch a couple, you know, talking heads, you will just hear death, death, death, everyone's dying.

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This is a huge pandemic. It's going to kill everyone. Fear, fear, fear, security, you need to put your trust in the state, you need to put your trust in your own might, you need to do what we say, or you're going to die.

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Which one that's just not the truth. I mean, if you look at COVID facts, okay,

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USC just came out with a study and said that the fatality rate is 0 .01%.

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Okay, that's less than the flu, right? Okay. You have 136 ,000 people infected with COVID 1 .2

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million people died from driving in cars. So then do we you know, do we put a five mile limit per day on driving?

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Do we ban cars? Do we say, Hey, you can't drive anywhere. One and a half million. Right? So we get into this weird thing to where when an agenda or certain facts, air quotes are really pushed, and they're not true.

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Well, then I push back on that a little bit. And I have to say, Okay, we have an are not which is how fast the virus spreads about the same as the flu.

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We have the average age of people dying from COVID -19 is 8484 years old.

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Average life expectancy is 79 in the United States. Yeah. I mean, geez, maybe some people should get

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COVID. They can live five years longer, right? It's ridiculous. And I'm not trying to make light of people passing away or dying.

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I mean, we we love our seniors and older people. That's really who it's attacking. But you've also got to realize that all

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COVID -19 classifications are classified that way with any respiratory issue.

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So our very first case in Monroe County of a person who passed away, due to COVID -19 had heart disease, cancer, overweight, diabetes, and then got a respiratory illness tested positive for COVID -19.

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They said, Well, oh, that's what killed was Yeah. And he was he was in, you know, basically near hospice before COVID -19 was classified as his death.

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So not only that, but you have the CDC, the Center for Disease and Control in the United States said,

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Oh, yeah, if you have the common cold, and you're in that Coronavirus, because it's a there's a whole bunch of viruses in the

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Coronavirus. Okay, it's the common cold, flu, pneumonia. If you have any of those everything, you're not classified.

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Yeah, yeah, everything fits in it. Yeah. So you could walk in with a common cold be tested, you're in that Coronavirus family, you're now a carrier of Coronavirus for the common cold, pneumonia, influenza

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COVID -19. And that's right from the government site saying that. So, you know, when Christians come to me, or even non

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Christians, and they say, How can you, you know, not do this or not wear a mask or don't, you know, not listen to authority?

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I just say, Well, I'm looking at it from, I want to say either a fact space or logic base.

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Let's look at all the whole picture here. Right? Yes, some, some people have passed away. Yeah. Right.

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But when we compare it to pneumonia, flu, SARS, H1N1, H, heck, even

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H1N1, a lot of people don't realize 60 million Americans were infected with H1N1. One in five people.

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Yeah, we had 2 million deaths. Did Does anyone remember that? Right? Just 10 years ago under Obama?

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Yeah. But nothing on the news. No scare. No fear. No, you know, put your mask on right.

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That was a much deadlier virus than Corona ever was. So when

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I look at all of that, I kind of see a fear and security culture, secular culture, really pushing that on the church, and saying,

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Hey, you, you don't need to trust in God, you need to trust in the state. Right?

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And when we had Sam storms, I was he talking about when he even says the Antichrist spirit, the spirit of rebellion, whose team are you going to be on God's team, or the team that rebels against God?

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Right. And when I look at these small things like masks, closings, not being able to gather at church, now, and I compare it to what the virus actually is,

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I look at that and say, Well, this is a this is a form of is a form of conditioning, and especially a form of conditioning for Christians to put their trust in not only the state, but in themselves, right?

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Lean out on my own understanding, instead of trusting in God. And that's what it really comes down to when

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I talked to a lot of believers that are, you know, for these executive orders, and for the mask wearing and for, you know, comply, comply, comply at all costs, without any question, when

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I really dig down to the root of it, they they're living in fear, and they're not trusting in the one who created them, save them daily provides for them, as Isaiah says.

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And I think when you have that paradigm shift of the Daniel or the

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Shadrach, Neshach, and Abednego, or the Elijah, or the David in Psalms and say, you are my everything,

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I daily depend on you, take my life or give me my life, it doesn't matter, because at the end of the day,

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I serve you, and I'm here to sacrifice for you and obey. Then I think all these other things kind of fall to the wayside, right?

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You know, like the mask wearing and things like that. So I guess that's a little drawn out there.

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If you want to jump in or say something. Well, there were there were no, that's, that's good stuff.

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I mean, that's, you know, we're where we're at right now. You know, we're being told.

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Yeah, that they have all the answers. And we just have to listen. And you know, that we just have to hop on board and not sing in church.

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And I'm starting to see, I mean, I don't know if anybody would agree with this or not. But in the

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Christian Church is the most persecuted, you know, religion, I mean, out there. Sure. I mean, like, we are continually just being, you know, jumped on and not physically, well, in some places, maybe possibly, but I mean, there's always someone out there that's just pushing back at everything.

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And internationally, that's, that's to be expected, right? Because our, our actual belief is not to, yeah, push back, look, right, like, we're supposed to just go wash feet all the time, and not have anything else to say about abortion, like you said earlier, right about wearing a mask about, you know, and anything, you know, like,

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I mean, like, we can't say anything about anything, like, we're just supposed to sit back, take it for what it's worth.

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And, you know, just go hide in our home, until, you know, God comes back and takes us out of here.

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Sure. In the escapism, pre trade. Yeah. Which, yeah, nihilism is a big bug, man.

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It's a big bug just flew into the studio. Yeah, nihilism isn't isn't true

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Christianity either. Right? Just Oh, sit back and whatever will be will be and hide my hide myself.

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You know, ostrich in this head in the sand type deal. Yeah. I was just saying too, though, that that makes for an easy target for Christianity, because we don't have tenants or doctrines, say, like 25 to 35 % of the believing

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Muslims in this world, which is about three to 4 million people that believe, you know, it's okay to kill someone if they belittle the

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Prophet Muhammad. Now, that's going to be sticky for someone to hear that might be listening this and say,

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Oh, well, that's, I don't want it's even the word you use for xenophobic. Is that what you you know, anti Muslim, but gets thrown around.

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But that's the facts. Yeah, right. You do it. You do an international survey of almost 500 ,000 people.

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And they said, 25 % 25 to 35 % on some scale said,

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Yeah, it's, it's okay to put to death a woman who has had sex outside of marriage, it's okay to put to death a person if they belittle the

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Prophet Muhammad. You know, 15 to 18 % of them believe that, you know, bombings were okay in the name of Allah jihad, you know.

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So my whole point wasn't to get on the whole, you know, different religions and things like that.

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But you've got 100 ,000 Christians in in China that have been murdered. You've got all these

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Christians in Iraq and Saudi Arabia, tortured and murdered. And I think that's a little bit easier of a target for a non believing world.

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Just because Yeah, we're not going to come back and, you know, bomb you because you kill.

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I mean, we know, as believers that martyrdom might be part of our walk, right?

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I mean, you know, the blood of martyrs is really what watered the early church. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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And I mean, you know, here in here in America, I mean, even just the arguments that the the doctrine the theology arguments that we get in, you know, over here.

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And I know that's, you know, not as, as harsh as obviously getting your head chopped off, right?

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And all of that. But I mean, it is. I mean, the world looks at the church and sees that sometimes we can't even get along.

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You know, and it's like, I mean, you know, we're we are told to call out false teachers.

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Sure. We are, you know, we are given that given that appointment, not only call them out, but expel them from the fellowship.

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Right? Right. And, you know, but again, some people may just completely disagree and think that universalism is something that is supposed to be a part of the church, and that the new age should go ahead and be let into the church.

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But again, I mean, no, it's not biblical. It's not, you know,

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I mean, as much as you want to go into a works based theology. It's not right.

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You know, it's not biblical. It's not. Yeah, it's not how our faith is set up.

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You know, it's by grace, you're saved, not by what you do. You know, and that and that's what the

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American church is headed towards, you know, it's already there. I think it's there. It's been there.

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And, you know, I really think it has a lot to do with if you you know, you do a bird's eye view of the

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Christian church, and it really comes down to and this has been going on for a long time. This isn't like the last five or 10 years.

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I'm talking 5060 70 years in America, where the church, the Christian church, the believers has allowed the secular culture to dictate what the church does, right?

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And it has not dictated to the secular culture what the gospel says. Okay, if you go if you were to go down into a

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Southern Baptist church in 1950. Okay, the blacks were sitting on one side, the whites were sitting on the other side.

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Why? Because the law said the culture said segregation, yet when they would sit in those same pews, and they would read verses like there's no

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Jew, no Greek, no slave, no free, we have all been redeemed by Christ, we are all the church, right?

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What in there probably was some churches that were doing this, but why wasn't those churches being counterculture and saying no, we're not going to do what is legal, because it's not moral, just because something is legal doesn't make it moral.

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And just because something is legal doesn't make it okay to do or not to do. We have to do what the

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Bible tells us, right? You know, so we've seen this just escalate in the last 1520 years with with the culture wars, right?

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From everything from you know, what what is a life, right?

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Life at conception life at birth, you know, the whole life until it's 20 weeks, right?

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You know, yeah, the abortion issue, we've seen it in the gender issue where we've seen sexism.

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I don't even like saying the word gender. It's sex, male and female God created two sexes, male and female.

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Yes, there's outliers. Yes. In this fallen world, we have people that have, you know, cross chromosomes in medical issues,

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I get that that 0 .6 % of 0 .06 % of the population. Okay, we're not talking about that.

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I'm talking about how we were created male and female. This goes back to Genesis one.

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I mean, this couldn't be more simple when it comes to Christianity, but we've seen many denominations freely accept this, right?

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We just saw last week and you know, I'm going to mention names, you might like them, but TD Jake's, he came out and said,

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Oh, I've evolved on homosexuality and transgenderism. I have thought about this.

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And I've just seen too many homosexual and transgender couples that getting along and loving the

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Lord and serving in the church to say that it's wrong, right to say that it's wrong in the eyes of God.

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Yeah. So you have major pastors that have said you want to what the fight is too great.

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I don't want to keep fighting against the culture of the secular world.

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And I'm going to give in and let it acquiesce to gospel says right and and we keep seeing that over again with with major points where the world and the

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Bible come in conflict, right? And it's just sad to me, because now we're seeing it with not only

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COVID -19 but even with the racial divide in this church, you're seeing pastors get up and say things like, you know, we support

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Black Lives Matter. Now, first of all, that name is so disingenuous.

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Because if someone says I don't support Black Lives Matter, well, what kind of idiot are you? Of course, any regular sane person loves black, brown, yellow, white, right, right.

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But the issue with that is when you have mega pastors, right down to the local church, using that terminology, that if you

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Google Black Lives Matter, and you go to their website, and you see their platform and what they stand for, and what they represent and what they want to institute right in the

30:41

United States, you have no business using that terminology, because that terminology is linked to cultural

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Marxism. It's linked to, you know, everything from the homosexual agenda to the to the trans agenda, to defunding the police burning down, burning down buildings, taking down statues to erase history.

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And look at I'm not here to defend Confederate statues and the killing of natives and all that stuff.

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What I'm saying is there's a couple things that you have to understand. Those who do not learn their history are doomed to repeat it.

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Okay. And in some instances, we have to have reminders of what our past was. So we don't repeat it, right?

31:26

You know, I think Ronald Reagan famously said freedom is always one generation away.

31:34

Or maybe said tyranny is one generation away. Freedom, which or the you know, the lack of freedom is one generation.

31:41

I feel like George W. Once you get fooled, can't get fooled. What I was trying to say was, essentially, it only takes a generation or two to forget what the previous generation fought for, had or upheld.

31:55

Right, right. So I'm kind of looking at all of these situations, the social situation, the

32:03

Black Lives Matter, the rioting, the COVID -19 stuff and not being able to worship in the state dictating to you what you are and are are and are not allowed to do.

32:14

And I look at it. And when I see the majority of Christian churches in the United States, I just see them acquiescing to a secular culture, instead of standing firm in the culture of the gospel, and proclaiming that promoting that and exclaiming that right people, right.

32:32

And I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that a lot of these pastors are playing church, and they're not doing church, right?

32:44

And you're going to lose a lot of stuff. When you're a 5013 C, and you are tax free, and tax exempt, and you have to answer to, and when

32:54

I say state, I'm talking about government in the whole, whether it's federal or state level. There are some things that you have to tiptoe around.

33:01

Yeah, because you either don't want to lose that status. You don't want the you know, the local politicians and police showing up at your church on Sunday, you don't want certain groups showing up and calling you certain names and hurling things at you, you're going to be in the news, you're going to be on the in the paper, you're going to be on cable, you know, news shows.

33:20

And to me, I look at that. And I look at that as pastors and leaders and Christians caring more about what men think of them than what

33:31

God thinks of them, right. And I've said on quite a few occasions, I think, you know, when

33:37

I look at the choice, I'm going to stand up for what God wants me to stand up for. Because at the end of the day, when

33:43

I stop breathing, I'm immediately going to be in the presence of an all holy, all righteous, wrathful, sovereign

33:50

God. And you can I can tell you right now, I'm much more fearful and reverent of what he's going to say to me than what anyone down here what any man or woman could say to me, or what culture might call me.

34:03

And if I lose friends over it, so be it. Well, if I, you know, get banned on social media, so be it.

34:10

Yeah. If people say I'm not going to vote for it, so be it. We can't come over to Greg's house because we think he's a little kooky with the way he thinks about what the

34:17

Bible says. So be it. Yeah. You know, you Calvinist. If you've ever been kicked out of a

34:25

Bible study for quoting scripture, you might be a Calvinist. That's a great name.

34:31

Yeah. But so that's where I kind of see those things. What I mean, what do you think when you look at those?

34:37

I don't want to conflate COVID and Black Lives Matter. But those these two big things that are going on that are really causing destruction and kind of animosity and like a rift within the

34:48

Christian church. Right. I mean, I think, you know, the Black Lives Matter movement, um, just like you just said,

34:56

I mean, I, I don't I just, who wouldn't, you know, want to want to stand with someone that was being treated unfairly?

35:07

Right? Who wouldn't want to do I mean, that that just makes sense. I mean, acts 1726.

35:13

And he made from one man, every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth.

35:22

Boom, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place. You know, it's like, man, oh, man, like, like, what are we?

35:33

What are we saying? In the church, if we are becoming woke, you know, quote, unquote, you know, um,

35:43

I mean, it's like, just like you said already, I mean, inviting in the world and the secular view, rather than the biblical view of what we were supposed to be living out and believing in.

35:56

And, you know, I mean, yeah, show me a business that's being racist.

36:01

Guess who's going to be there standing next to you and never going to that place? Yeah. And standing up against racism?

36:07

Yeah, I mean, like, I mean, come on, like, who, you know, yeah. And if there's a person that I don't know, you know, would would stay away from something like that.

36:18

I mean, I would be surprised. You know, if the church was truly doing its job and how church discipline works, and how membership works, there would be no racist in the church ever.

36:29

Yeah, that person would either be excommunicated, excommunicated, expelled, or, you know, or brought into restoration.

36:37

You know, in Votie Bachmann talks so much about what you just said, we came from one man.

36:44

There's, there's no different races, right? We're all the same race. We're just different shades of melanin melanin.

36:50

Yeah, we have different melanin, melanin, melanin. I feel like Tommy boy.

36:56

Yeah, roads, roads, melanin, and then niner. But yeah, it's, it's, it's tough.

37:06

Because then you have Christian leaders. And once again, it's gonna sound like I'm just dogging on Christian leaders, but it's so prevalent right now.

37:14

You see all you see all the popular guys, you know, the Stephen Furtick's.

37:20

Yeah. And the Joyce Myers, and the small small stain, the small small stains.

37:27

And they use words like systematic racism, institutional racism. Well, show me show me the systematic show me the institutional and I'll stand with you shoulder to shoulder, and we'll shut those things down together.

37:39

Exactly. But for you to appease and to try to, you know, coddle a certain group of people by using these words that have very specific meanings in secularism to try to get people on your side and say,

37:53

Hey, look at me, I'm with you guys, right? I'm woke, right? Um, it's a form of virtue signaling.

37:59

Yeah. You know, I posted a meme to our Instagram page a few days ago. And I'm gonna paraphrase myself, because I can't even remember what

38:06

I really thought. But I just had this thought. I said, the reason why woke Christians virtue signal is be outwardly is because they lack the virtue of Christ inwardly.

38:16

It's just another form of false religiosity. Just yet another form of Pharisee religion.

38:22

Right? I don't have the inward virtue of Christ. So I'm going to outwardly virtue signal to everyone else because I want

38:30

I want to appease them. I want to be liked. I want to be popular. I want to keep what I have got to have those checks rolling in got to have those cool sneakers.

38:38

I got to make sure everyone's happy to get my PPP loan got to get my PPP loan. Oh, gosh, did you see that?

38:44

Jesus just might got like $12 million. No, she got 15 million. She got 12 million in the bank.

38:50

You know, I got three small businesses here in my county that can't get them. Yeah. And they're shutting down.

38:56

I don't know. We can talk about that on another episode. But that's that's a little crazy to me. It's unbelievable. And I just had this discussion with my wife talking about that.

39:05

Well, I'll jump back to what I was just talking to the second. But I said that kind of actions like the the

39:12

Joyce Meyer and the Stephen Furtick and Kenneth Copeland and the

39:18

Creflo dollar and the Joel Osteen that generate hundreds of millions of dollars a year tax free, right and aren't using it for the purposes they're supposed to be using it the whole reason while in 1920

39:31

I believe it was that the government said, Hey, look at churches, nonprofits, we get it, we're not going to tax you because all your money is going to help people.

39:40

You're the social net. Yeah, you know, pre Medicare and pre Medicaid and pre social security.

39:46

You're the social net of this country. We're not going to tax you 90 % of what you're bringing in goes right back out to help other people and job placement, food, shelter, job training, all these things.

39:57

Well, guess what? Those type of people I just mentioned now these mega millionaire churches type that put very little back into the community but take a lot.

40:08

They make a very good case for the progressives and leftists that say no, those should be taxed just like businesses, right?

40:16

And I don't know if I can really argue with them. Yeah, yeah. I'm not a progressive or a leftist. Right. But I'll tell you what they make a really good argument.

40:23

Oh, yeah. When I see a $250 million budget, 1 million of that going to missions, the rest of it going to the board, the pastor, right, the, the, the employees, and on personal items, you are running a business.

40:36

Yeah, you're running a for profit business as a guys as a nonprofit church. So they're doing us an injustice in the eyes of the world.

40:45

Not only are they, you know, bad doctrine and in defaming the name of Christ, but they're, the way they're acting is going to get themselves in trouble air quotes with the government, the government's gonna come in very soon and just start saying,

40:58

Okay, guess what? Yeah, all nonprofits churches, you're getting taxed. Right. So I look at these local littler churches, right that are struggling to get by, but still hold to that type of entertainment, emerging church, type of theology, like, you know, you got your little mini

41:14

Stephen Furtick's that want to be, you know, popular and have the next have the smoke machine, have the smoke machine, the $600 pair of shoes, all that stuff.

41:22

And I go look at, you're aspiring to be something that's going to bring wrath from the government down on you, because they're not gonna let that go on much longer.

41:31

Let me tell you, right, the government does not does not like it when they see someone making a half a billion dollars and they're not paying taxes.

41:37

Yeah, you know, yeah. And the and the people looking in on that, you know, I mean, Creflo dollar bragging about the next plane that he bought, you know, yeah,

41:46

I mean, it's like, which is so far removed from biblical Christianity. Yeah, I don't even understand.

41:52

Well, I do understand look at if you're a smart con man, you never want smart people in your audience.

41:59

Right? You don't want anyone that can expose you. You look for low level, entry level, weak minded, gullible people.

42:07

Now, people listening to this or watching this right now are going, Greg, you sound so mean. You're calling people stupid.

42:13

You're calling people dumb. Well, I'm not arguing. I'm not doing in a demeaning manner.

42:20

But let me tell you something. When when a pastor like Creflo dollar gets on stage and says

42:27

I need a $65 million jet or I cannot do my ministry. Well, if you believe that, then you know,

42:34

I've got I've got oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you Yeah, and I'm a real estate agent. I'll find it for you. You know, because that is just gullible.

42:41

Yeah. If that's the case, what did pastors do before air travel?

42:47

Yeah, you know, just there's a million different ways you can debunk that. But my point is, is a good con man will never put people around him or people in his audience or followers that actually think logically and, you know, critically think and can debunk him, right?

43:03

Or the con ends? Well, it's I mean, it goes back to the work workspace that I was talking about a little bit earlier.

43:09

I mean, you know, that that stuff puts people in bondage. I mean, it's like, what, what did I not do?

43:15

You know, yeah, all of a sudden, people become atheists, they become agnostic Gnostic. I mean, like, you know, they become, they just run away from Christianity, because they didn't get this breakthrough.

43:26

You know, I mean, there's, there's plenty of people out there that are there looking for that breakthrough and saying,

43:32

Why, you know, why has this thing not happened for me, but it's, you know, happening for this guy, you know,

43:39

I, I gave my money where he said to give it to right. And now it's not, you know, it's not happening or whatever.

43:45

I fasted three times a day, you know, three times a year or a week for the entire year or whatever.

43:53

And this thing is still, you know, I'm not, I'm not getting pregnant, or we're not having a baby or, or whatever, you know, which is so sad.

44:02

Yeah, they're running on a treadmill, because they're basically running on a treadmill against what the

44:07

Bible says in multiple places. Right? There is no one righteous. No, not one.

44:13

Exactly. Right? You like your good works are like filthy. Your righteousness is like filthy rags to God.

44:20

Okay, that that's scary. Yeah, it's not that I'm a sinner. I know that. But the fact that everything that I try to do in my own strength that I think is good, that I think is righteous.

44:30

Yeah, God says, Yeah, that's like, filthy used rags, right? And they'll never attain that in a workspace.

44:37

salvation. And it and it does. You're so right. It keeps people in this perpetual bondage.

44:43

Yeah, which you've had, you have denominations, and you have whole churches, non

44:49

Protestant, a lot of Catholic churches, profit off of writing people in that kind of treadmill, right?

44:55

And I mean, you know, I mean, gosh, I've heard so many stories about and I know this is a completely different topic and let's do it.

45:05

This is a special episode. You know, I met a couple people that just,

45:14

I mean, they, they were just like, I just, I just can't do enough, you know, right? And it's like, Yeah, you're right.

45:19

You can't. Yeah, you need, you need a Savior. His name is Jesus Christ. But you know, you obviously different, different frame of mind.

45:30

Well, it's sad. It's sad because work based salvation also takes away that blessed assurance. Yeah, they don't have any assurance.

45:38

I talked to a very devout Catholic, we had a good four hour discussion. This guy was going to be a priest.

45:45

Before he met his wife on like Catholic mingle .com. I'm not kidding you. She was gonna be a priest they met.

45:51

And they're like, they're they're Catholic mingle. They're like Catholic mingle or something like that.

45:56

Oh, there's Christian mingle. There's actually a Netflix movie called Christian mingle. But after three hours of talking with him, it was so sad because he basically just said,

46:07

I said he was very truthful. He said, I don't know if I will be in heaven when

46:12

I die. We'll see when we get up there. Because I could do something that offends

46:18

God. And if I don't ask for forgiveness through my priest, or if it's a mortal sin that I commit.

46:26

I don't know. And I just went, Wow, what a way to live life. Yeah, having absolutely no assurance of your salvation.

46:32

Right. You know, and, and that's a that's a big theme through a lot of major religions. I mean,

46:38

Mormonism, Jehovah Witness, Muslim, same way. Right. And a lot of a lot of those in Catholicism as well, too.

46:48

And one, I would say, yeah, that's, that's sad. But also, I would say it's just not biblical. Yeah. And, well,

46:54

I mean, it runs through a word of faith, you know? Sure. I mean, yeah, certain.

47:04

I mean, charismatic, certain sex of charismania.

47:09

Sure. Pentecostalism. And yeah, man, I mean, it's Yeah, anyway.

47:16

Yeah, word of faith is, excuse me, word of faith is so sad, because then it puts it right back on the person.

47:23

Well, you didn't have enough faith, right? Yeah, didn't pray hard enough. You didn't and it's like, yeah, you just full of unbelief.

47:30

Aren't you? Yeah, I love it. When people somebody said that to me once I you got you got something on you.

47:38

Because I love I love I love praying over people like you because you got so much unbelief. I was like, someone someone said that.

47:46

Yeah. It was it was within the past couple years. Really? I love praying for you because you have so much unbelief much unbelief.

47:55

Did you say? Yeah, I do. Like, because I'm a fallen human man.

48:00

Oh, man. Yeah. Where do I even start with this conversation guy? Yeah. Yeah.

48:08

Yeah. Anyway. So yeah, for me, if we're shifting into the like the black lives matter, what really bothers me is that Christians are now identifying themselves first on the color of their skin or what social economic group they belong to.

48:29

Instead of as followers of Christ, identifying themselves as believers in Christ.

48:37

And I know you and I both listened to Just Thinking podcast with Virgil and Daryl.

48:44

Yeah. And I think Virgil is going to come on the podcast for us here soon. He's awesome. And they and they and we'll reiterate what they said too.

48:52

But as Christians, you know, like the George Floyd thing, our first response should be sorrow for the fact that an image bearer of Christ died.

49:05

As a believer as a Christian, it's not Oh, a black person died.

49:11

Oh, a white person died. Oh, a second amendment advocate died. Oh, a, you know,

49:18

Methodist died. Oh, insert, you know, Indian. It shouldn't be that it should be an image bearer of Christ because that's what the gospel tells us right to love one another.

49:27

As we love ourselves. Right. And let me tell you something. We're a narcissistic people.

49:33

Social media has taught us anything in the last 10 or 15 years. Boy, do we love ourselves?

49:38

Man, I know everything. Boy, are we smart? Yeah, right. Boy, do we love ourselves?

49:44

I can't wait to put up something. I can't wait to put a couple paragraphs and tell people how people need to know my opinion.

49:52

I am right. It's like I have such a unique perspective. And it's like 800 of the same post.

50:02

On the news. Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, I mean, it's hard to come out with new content.

50:07

I mean, Solomon even talked about that in Ecclesiastes. Yeah. Oh, there's nothing new under the sun. Nothing new under the sun.

50:14

Yeah. So it hurts me to see Christians and self professing

50:20

Bible believing Christians who put their identity in either where they grew up their skin color, their economic status, right?

50:29

All of these other things, except of their identity being in Christ. Right? Because it says you've actually been crucified with Christ.

50:38

Yeah. And now our slave to righteousness. So the minute you were regenerated, and you came to Christ, and the

50:45

Lord opened your eyes, there was no longer that Jason, there was no longer that Greg, there was no longer that whoever you were crucified with Christ, and now your identity is in him.

50:58

Right? That's why we talk about the fruits of the Spirit and being more Christ like than always refining and sanctification.

51:04

And when we say, Oh, I'm a Christian, but, or I'm a blank

51:10

Christian. Oh, that irritates me to no end, because you're now stepping outside of the identity of Christ.

51:17

And you're going back into that secular culture that says, Oh, no, you might be a Christian, but it's more important that you're a blank

51:23

Christian, black Christian, Southern, you know, rich, poor, whatever adjective you put in front of Christian, just like how we you know, when you put adjectives in front of the word justice, that doesn't work.

51:37

There's just just justice, right? No such thing as social justice. There's justice. And then there's injustice.

51:43

That's it. Well, there's unjustice to there's three of them. But hey, don't confuse me. R .C.

51:48

Sproul does a great talk on the difference between justice, injustice and unjust. Yeah. And for anyone listening, just go look up on justice.

51:57

R .C. Sproul. It's about an eight minute clip. It's absolutely beautiful clip. But so getting back to my point of with the whole

52:05

Black Lives Matter, what what really bothers me about one Christian leaders using that terminology, because that terminology to a certain movement that is full of cultural

52:20

Marxism, full of communism, full of trans and homosexual agendas, full of death, chaos, chaos,

52:29

I mean, civil unrest, tearing down authority structures, right?

52:36

Defund the police. And look at I get it. There's cops out there. We're all human. There are some bad cops out there.

52:42

I will never sit here and say all cops all the time, right are great. I've ran into some personally that I just went, wow, right.

52:49

I don't even know why you carry a badge and a gun like I'm fearful for our society that gave you that because you either a have such a power trip or don't understand constitutional rights or have a, you know, chip on your shoulder because of something that happened 20 years ago.

53:03

And now you're going to take it out on someone who's going 10 miles over the speed limit or whatever it is. I get that.

53:08

Yeah. But the fact when you're calling for the actual authority and law to be torn down, that's what

53:16

Paul's talking about. Let's bring it back home to 13 Romans 13 where we started. He's talking about that law abiding.

53:23

Keep everyone in check. Try to keep things moral. That's what God instituted. Yeah. Right. They're, they're, they're peacekeepers is what they're supposed to be.

53:32

That's what, that's what Paul calls police officers. Well, they didn't call him police officers in his day, but they were, they were peacekeepers to keep the peace.

53:41

And when you're calling for that in a movement that says, Oh, we want to tear down the exact thing that the

53:48

Lord has instituted. And then you have church leaders from the pulpit and from Facebook saying,

53:54

I align myself with black lives matter, right? Not black lives matter, but the black lives matter.

54:01

Okay. I think that's the distinction where we get all turned around on. I'm okay with someone saying, yeah,

54:07

I think black lives matter. I think, I think that's a really dumb thing to say, because, uh, as a

54:14

Christian, every single unregenerate person and center matters. Yeah. Right.

54:20

But when you use that, that kind of buzz term, black lives matter instantly, the secular world knows exactly what you're talking about.

54:27

Okay. If I'm a mega church pastor and I get up in front of 2 million people on live stream and 10 ,000 people in my church, and I say,

54:36

I stand with black lives matter. Well, that secular person, the unbeliever watching that knows exactly what you are saying.

54:44

You're aligning yourself with. Have you seen the, uh, the meme of shagging a Bendigo with, uh, uh,

54:52

Nebuchadnezzar's statue and then black lives matter is, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

54:57

That was on my, that was on our Instagram feed. I posted that like three weeks ago. Come on, man.

55:04

But they're standing up. Everybody else is bowing. Yeah. You know, and they're standing up and you know, well,

55:09

I think it was, uh, the, the idol is the black lives matter movement.

55:14

The three standing Shadrach, Neshach, and Bendigo is biblical Christianity and everyone bowing as well.

55:20

Yeah. And you know, I had someone asked me, I think on Facebook, well, what is woke Christianity mean?

55:26

And when I define it, it's that those Christians that would prefer to adhere to secular, the secular culture above the culture of the gospel that would prefer to virtue signal than have the virtue of Christ that would prefer to be politically correct instead of being truthful.

55:44

Right. So woke is almost woke. Christianity has just started to evolve these last maybe six months, but it's really becoming a meaning of essentially what we've been talking about all evening, putting the culture of the world above the culture of Christ.

56:02

Right. Um, and adhering to that and bowing to that and saying, look at, uh, yeah,

56:07

I'm a believer. I'm a Christian, but Hey man, I'm hip. I'm cool. I'm with it too. I also duck, duck, duck, duck, duck, duck.

56:14

Yeah. Dr. Evil. I'm cool with this and I'm cool with that. And Hey man, we don't judge. Right.

56:19

Right. I would say the woke Christian loves the judge. Not lest you be judged verse. Yeah. They love taking that verse out of context and misusing it because that allows them to say,

56:28

Hey man, I don't judge. Right. You know, which we talked about that on a past episode. That's absolutely misinterpreted scripture.

56:35

That's not what that verse means at all. Read first Corinthians five and Jude.

56:41

Wait, what's, what's first Corinthians five? Uh, where Paul is talking about, um, uh, he comes back to Corinth and learns that a stepson sleeping with his.

56:54

Okay. Yeah. Other. Yeah. And nobody said about that was a test.

57:02

Oh, great. Yes. I know the Bible. I just wanted to dance around it.

57:07

Yeah. I didn't want to use the exact wording. Yeah. No, but yeah. So what's your thoughts about that too?

57:13

I know I just rattled on a little bit about, uh, the black lives matter stuff. Right.

57:20

I, I take my stance. Um, and our stance in the

57:27

Hamlin family is, uh, we want to, um, live biblically.

57:36

We want to love our neighbor as ourself and realize that the world is going to act like the world, you know, looting, writing, burning things down.

57:50

Right. Um, and saying, um, crazy things and gaslighting acting like these things aren't happening that actually are, um, you know, um, on the other spectrum, us as Christians, we have an obligation.

58:11

We have a, um, a handbook right there.

58:16

Um, our Bible to, um, to get through things like this.

58:23

And, you know, I, I just, it, it just, man, I don't,

58:29

I don't want to say, um, no, I'll just go ahead and say it doesn't matter.

58:34

Um, it just, it just kind of irks me when I, when I do see the, the woke, um, the wokeness of the

58:43

Christian church. Um, you know, we, we do have to watch out. We, you know, we, we do have to watch out with our words, because if you align yourself with certain things,

58:55

I mean, you know, uh, there's in some ways, um, uh, there's all of a sudden you need an explanation.

59:04

Um, and especially if you are a lead pastor and you do align yourself with a certain movement,

59:13

I mean, you, you, you know, there's almost no return in some ways.

59:19

I mean, you're going to, you're going to lose some of your congregation too. And it's not in the, it's not because you're so, you know, noble, you took this noble stand, you know, it's like, no man, like you pretty much walked away from, from what we are taught in the

59:38

Bible, you know, about some of these positions that we should hold to hold fast to.

59:44

Um, and, uh, yeah, but yeah, that's, I had this thought too, is shouldn't, shouldn't non -believers and believers alike know us by the fruits of the spirit, right?

59:58

So if, if you are known by the fruits of your spirit, love, peace, kindness, joyfulness, long suffering, all those things, why do you have to get up to an unbelieving world and then try to align yourself with the movement to try to prove that to them and to get approval and to get approval?

01:00:15

Why are you trying to gain that approval? Shouldn't they just know by your actual faith through the alive work that you have, like James talks about an alive faith produces works.

01:00:27

And those works are based in the fruits of the spirit. Why would you have to do that?

01:00:35

Right. And I think it goes back to that thing I said, where there's a lack of inward virtue when you have to out outwardly signal that virtue.

01:00:46

Hey, hey, look at me. Um, I've got whatever it is you're looking for. I got some of it and I just put up a

01:00:52

Facebook post to make sure that you're okay. Right. To make sure that you know that I have a, you know, a thought on this, you know, and like, what does it call?

01:01:03

What is it called? When you're, what's that? If you don't, if you don't put up a post,

01:01:08

Oh yeah. White, white silence is violence. That's right. That's right.

01:01:13

Come on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You've got to get with the culture. Yeah. You know, you don't say anything, then you must, you know, you you're obviously a racist, which is crazy because for me, when you call everything a racist, nothing is a racist.

01:01:28

Yeah. Right. I mean, literally, when you call everything racism, then nothing is racism.

01:01:34

So you are actually giving cover for the actual racist that do exist in the world.

01:01:42

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist. We're a fallen mankind. We have hatred in our hearts.

01:01:48

There are some people out there that by the definition in the dictionary think they are superior because of the color of their skin.

01:01:57

There's probably still a few out there. I've never met one yet. Um, they're floating around there somewhere.

01:02:03

I know some people that are have some prejudices and stereotypes. Yeah. That doesn't classify him as a racist.

01:02:09

Will Smith said it beautifully. He says, I have never met a racist in my life, but I've met lots of prejudice people.

01:02:15

And I think that's very wise for him to take those two terms and separate them, right?

01:02:22

You can have a prejudice. Oh, I think this person will act do or say something based on past experiences with a person that looks or earns the same amount or from this region, or you know what

01:02:34

I mean? And that's a prejudice. But I don't think that person says, I think I'm better than that person because of my skin color versus theirs.

01:02:42

I do know that there are some of those people out there. And like I said, show me that person and heck, we'll go down to the courthouse right now and figure out a way to, you know, if they're doing something illegal and racist,

01:02:53

I'm, I'm all for it. Yeah. Uh, I'm all for, you know, condemning them.

01:02:58

Yeah. Someone's gonna take that clip and go racist. I'm all for it. See, Greg Moore, Greg Moore, all four races.

01:03:06

Great. But yeah, no, man. Yeah. I mean, I, uh, I was in a band and, uh, used to tour and travel and I, I did see actual racism, like actual racism that, um, the other two guys that were in the band, um, were

01:03:27

African American. And I mean, I actually saw it in the South, man. It was, it was real.

01:03:33

It was like, man, I can't believe that this is going down, you know? Um, uh, but, uh, but another thing that would happen was the people that would be overly nice.

01:03:45

Like, like, Oh yeah. Yeah. I used to, I used to work with a black guy and, uh, you know, we, we were good buddies, you know, we were, we, we used to hang out, you know?

01:03:55

And it was like, why did you even just say that? Like, what do you talk, you know, like why all of a sudden do you got to tell us about that?

01:04:01

You know, like, geez, man. But yeah, there, I think there's two spectrums there, you know?

01:04:06

And I, and I see it a lot in the church. I mean, like, you know, it's like, just let's, let's just be cool with everyone that walks in the right.

01:04:16

Don't have to go out of your way, you know? Cause like that's, that's how my buddies felt. They felt like everybody would like run up to them because,

01:04:24

Oh my gosh, we got, we got black people in our church, you know, all of a sudden they're, you know, like,

01:04:30

Oh my gosh, I'm going to shake his hand and make sure he comes back. You know, it's like, they didn't want that. They were just like,

01:04:36

I'm here to worship God. Just like you guys, you know, I had a, I had a black couple.

01:04:43

Tell me that with a church that I had attended that said, they said the leadership made him feel so uncomfortable because it was like overly trying to be like, in literally some water, the pastor turned and introduced them to the one other black couple that was there.

01:05:00

Oh gosh. And it's like, it was almost like they were trying to be like, Hey, look at, we have diversity in our church, but it was what it really looked like was like,

01:05:07

Oh, black couple a meet black couple B. Right. I'll someone did that to me based on my skin color or I don't know.

01:05:16

Could you imagine if we walked into a church? It's like, Oh, you have a beard here. There's three other guys here with a beard.

01:05:22

Why don't you talk to them? Because you probably only talk about all beard stuff. You guys gotta be able to get along, right? Go pound sand.

01:05:28

I'm more than my beard. Right. And I, and I would think that minority same way. In fact, I know they do because I talked to them and they, you know, it's apps.

01:05:37

It's so demeaning. Yeah. And my point was too, was when you call everything, you know, racism, when, when

01:05:44

I sit down and talk to someone and say, look at maybe, you know, and I had this conversation with someone in person about the culture of victimhood, right.

01:05:52

And it runs rapid within the black community of you're a victim. There's institutional racism.

01:05:58

Someone's always out to get you this on a miss white privilege, racist. It's always there in the ether and you got to fight against it your whole life.

01:06:06

You'll never make anything of it because the white man's going to hold you down. Well, heck now the, the Brown man and the yellow man, because if there's white privilege, there's definitely

01:06:15

Jewish, Chinese and Indian privilege because they're all doing better than white people as a subgroup as a minority.

01:06:22

Oh my. But when you do that and I say, that's a horrible way to raise your children in a, in a culture of victim hood mentality.

01:06:33

And someone told me to my face, you're a racist because you said, well, it has nothing to do with race.

01:06:42

I would tell that to the people living in the hollers in Kentucky. I would tell that to the slums, the

01:06:49

Jewish slums in New York, anywhere where there's victimhood is being propagated as an excuse not to succeed.

01:06:56

I would say that's a bad thing. Right? And then you call that racist. Well, guess what? You've just now taken the, the word and all the weight of racism and you've lowered it to such a point that you've given a real cover for real racist.

01:07:11

Right? No, because we just hide out in the open then. Right. If you actually really, truly called racism what it was and despised it.

01:07:20

That's why, that's why we had white supremacy and Klu Klux Klan and all that on the run. I mean, you came in with, you held a hood in, in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

01:07:31

It was like, get out business wouldn't serve yet. Like you were shunned. But when you call everything racist, when you say, you know, uh, quoting scripture is certain scriptures are racist.

01:07:43

Well, guess what? Now that person who truly is racist has evil intent in their heart, who does want to either do harm or have hatred towards another person of a different skin color.

01:07:52

You've just given them can walk freely through a society because racist, racist, racist, right? It's like Oprah in the car.

01:07:58

You're you, you're racist. You're racist. You're, you know, and it does such a disservice to actual racism.

01:08:06

Well, I, I, uh, I was telling you earlier about, uh, Wody Bachman's, um, his sermon, uh, called, uh,

01:08:17

I'm pretty, I'm almost positive it was cultural Gnosticism. Um, but he, uh, he was saying the, the, the main quote was, you don't know what you don't know.

01:08:29

You know, like you're, you're, you don't know it, but you're racist. Like matter, like what you say, because you, and maybe it's, you're not woke, but maybe, you know, uh, but yeah,

01:08:44

I know more about you. Whoa, big bug. Um, I know more about you than you know.

01:08:51

Right. You know, um, it's like, yeah, which I would say is a form of prejudice, right?

01:08:58

Right. You don't even know it, but you're racist. Yeah. How do you know that? Because you're white, you're born into it.

01:09:04

It sounds prejudiced or because you're this color or that color, right. You know, but this all, I mean, we're getting a little into kind of the political sphere here when we're talking about virtue signaling and even like intersectionality and having, you know, what subgroup of victimhood can

01:09:21

I belong to? So I can be the biggest victim of all time. So therefore I get status within my community.

01:09:28

Yeah. Uh, which I see event, liberal Christianity, and even some moderate and some conservative sex of Christianity falling into this catering to the victim mentality.

01:09:42

You know, we, once again, when you see on Instagram and Facebook and all social media, you see leaders within the emerging church saying, we stand with you because we know how you're facing systematic racism.

01:09:56

And it's like, okay, what system let's, let's talk about that system, right? Let's not throw buzzwords and play words at a group of people.

01:10:04

So we can either what try to get their approval or show that we're, you know, I don't know, on your, on your side or whatever it is, then let's go fight the systematic racism through the gospel.

01:10:17

Right. They're advancing the kingdom here on earth. That's what you should be doing, Mr. Pastor, preach the gospel.

01:10:23

Yeah. You want to fight racism, preach the gospel. You want to fight, uh, you know, uh, an unjust court system, preach the gospel.

01:10:29

You want to, uh, fight racial divide, preach the gospel. You want to fight, um, police brutality, preach the gospel.

01:10:37

Like that's the answer for everything yet. We try to use a secular, uh, solution for a kingdom issue.

01:10:47

Well, Greg, you're supposed to go in your prayer closet and not come out.

01:10:52

Is that right? No, you're actually supposed to go in your prayer closet and then come out of there with, you know, your, your armor on and you go to battle.

01:11:00

Right. I mean, like that's, that's where we should be as, uh, you know, as Christians, as, uh, followers of Christ, man, that bug is huge.

01:11:12

You're not a bug guy. No. Stan, there we go. I mean, I'm fine, man.

01:11:18

If they're flying in my head though, it's just a June bug. Wow. As long as it's not a spider. I'm okay. I mean, you put it on a sandwich.

01:11:25

I'll chop it up. What is that? Is that a movie that I know?

01:11:32

No, that's my, I just came up with a character. He's a guy that eats bugs. Oh, just on the spot like that, dude, you need to get to second city.

01:11:40

You got some improv. I would love to be on second city. I actually wanted to do improv for a long time.

01:11:45

And yeah, but then I had a kid. No, I'm joking. Then my life ended.

01:11:52

No, actually my life is awesome, man. You do get a pretty good life going on there. So as we finish up,

01:11:58

I have to wear a mask at Ford motor company, thousand degree weather, but right. Uh, so as we finish up, you got any final thoughts or anything?

01:12:06

Did we cover? I mean, we talked a little bit about both. Let me check my notes here. I would probably say to people listening, um, delve into the, into the word.

01:12:17

Yeah. Get as deep into that and prayers. You can read the actual word, read what the

01:12:24

Bible says. Uh, don't surface, read it, dig into it. Look at the original

01:12:29

Greek, look at the original Hebrew, look at the original Aramaic in some texts, look at your concordances and your, uh, uh, and your study guides, like turn it over.

01:12:44

You can sometimes take two or three verses. I can sometimes take two or three verses and I will get an hour worth of, uh, searching and Googling and looking at and reading opinions on and praying about I do dude, dude,

01:12:59

I want that. I don't have it. You don't have it. Isn't that isn't logos expensive to have all of all of it.

01:13:07

Oh, I don't have the whole pro. No, I don't have the full program. Gotcha. Okay. No, I got a full program is legit man.

01:13:13

Is that supposed to be rad? Yeah, I should probably get that. Yeah. Uh, but I mean, that would be to anyone listening or watching, that would be my, uh, and because the more you immerse yourself in the word of God, the less you're going to feel the, the slime of this culture.

01:13:33

Does that make sense? Um, I can't remember who said it, but you know, even talking about like going to school and being in the world, you can't send your kids to Rome.

01:13:42

We can't go out in Rome every day and then expect to come back, not Romans. Right. So it's like, what kingdom are you actually living in?

01:13:49

And, uh, ultimately put your trust and security in God, not in a state, not in a mask, not in a movement, not in a skin color, not in promised economics.

01:14:00

Put your trust in God. Put your trust in Christ in Christ alone. What do you got for me?

01:14:05

Got a few, a few verses real quick. My first man. Let's go with, uh, let's go with Psalm one

01:14:11

Oh three. Okay. Through three praise one Oh three, one through three. Praise the Lord. My soul, all my inmost being praise his

01:14:19

Holy name. Praise the Lord, my soul and forget not all his benefits who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases.

01:14:29

Um, Isaiah 41 10. So do not fear for I'm with you.

01:14:34

Do not be dismayed for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help. I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

01:14:42

And finally, Deuteronomy 31 six, be strong and courageous.

01:14:48

Do not be afraid or terrified because of them. For the Lord your God goes with you.

01:14:55

He will never leave you nor forsake you. Awesome. And I'll make sure that we link those scriptures in the description for the episode when it gets put up, guys.

01:15:06

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01:15:15

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01:15:22

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01:15:32

That's at dead men walking podcast .com. So very easy. Google dead men walking podcast comes up.

01:15:40

And as always, guys, we we thank you for listening. Jason, do you have anything? Yeah, get it.

01:15:45

I mean, just get ahold of us if if you have any questions or if you disagree with everything that we said.

01:15:51

It's okay. We we like discussion. So yeah, and we're always learning right?

01:15:57

Yeah, man. I'm being saying and sanctify. Yeah, man. All right, guys. Have a good one.

01:16:03

you next time. Oh, they can still hear me.