Responding to a Black Hebrew Israelite | Apologetics Live 0028

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This is Apologetics Live with Matt Slick and Andrew Rappaport, part of the

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Christian Podcast Community. All right, we are live,

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Apologetics Live, and we're glad to be out here. We have some open

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Q &A, so if you have some questions and want to get them answered, anything apologetically, whether dealing with the

00:47

Bible, whether dealing with atheism, Mormonism, Jehovah Witness, anything that you want, we'll be up for discussion.

00:56

We may have a friend come in and talk about what we're going to start off with.

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I'm going to start off with a response that I'll have to an email that I got last show.

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So last week when we were doing our show, I had someone that emailed, and we're going to respond to that email and show you the importance of doing original research.

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Not a lot of people do that because, well, it takes time, it's harder, and we're going to show you the importance of doing that.

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Now I'm Andrew Rappaport from Striving for Eternal Mysteries, host of the Rapp Report podcast, that's

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Rapp with two Ps. And so you can go and listen to that, go to any podcast app, get

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Rappaport, put it in with Rapp with two Ps, Andrew Rappaport's Rappaport two are going to show up. Rappaport Daily is a

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Monday through Friday, two minutes. So if you like short daily stuff, that's for you.

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Go get that. You can get that on a regular basis, Monday through Friday.

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If you prefer something longer, well, we have the Rapp Report, that's about an hour long each show, and we will do more of that, going to do more things on that, that we can't do in two minutes.

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So go out and check them both out. Now Matt is not with us at least yet, probably, maybe not tonight, we're going to see.

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Matt, as some of you know, is been packing and trying to get himself, basically get himself ready to move.

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And so hopefully we will have him back. But by the time he gets back, as he gets his move underway,

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I will probably be in the Philippines. So we're going to be having one or two of us for May.

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We're going to see, we will have some special guests that are going to be coming in. While I'm gone, Dr. Anthony Silvestro is going to be coming in.

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So that will be really exciting, especially for those of you who particularly like creation science, because that's his expertise, and he's going to focus a lot on that.

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So that may be something that you want to check out and make sure that you're listening those weeks.

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And if you're not aware, this show is a podcast as well. So if you go and search on podcasts for Apologetics Live, you can get the audio of this every week as they drop, usually they drop the next day.

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So I want to give time, at least to start going to share screen here, do do do do do here we go.

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So I got this email and see, I'll close that down so it's not as distracting.

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And I want to read this so you can see this is the email that we got. And I'm not taking it out of context because I know how, well, how the black

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Hebrew Israelites or they call themselves now Hebrew Israelites like to respond and claim that people are taking them out of context and fun things like that.

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Let me just do this real quick so I can get my I can see the chat here.

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Okay. All right. There we go. Excuse me. So and I see that the author of this got this email is here in chat or at least watching.

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He's welcome to join and we'll see if he can defend his arguments after we show the arguments.

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But here's what he says. I want to I'll read it to you. So he says, I have seen the founder of this website debate my fellow

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Israelites, and I would like to take the opportunity to prove why so -called black people are

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Hebrews. I would like to display why the so -called black blacks are true

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Hebrews and show legitimate sources for the theory and dispute the

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Samaritans never left argument. Now, first off, I don't know the

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Samaritans never left argument that so I didn't make a either of these arguments. So he wants to challenge me on something

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I didn't say. Okay. But I find that this next part kind of interesting. I expect a detailed essay in response.

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Otherwise, I consider my stance as an Israelite true by forfeit.

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And mind you, and my mind will never be changed. Okay. So here's something that you get with folks.

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And I want to point this out so that you can see how people end up arguing. All right.

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Let me bring this back on to me. So excuse me. So the thing that you see here is he makes an argument that if I don't give a detailed response, in other words, if I don't give a response that satisfactory to him, then he's right because it's not detailed enough and his mind can never be changed.

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So what's the argument for truth in his mind? Well, himself, because notice it's if it's not detailed, a detailed essay.

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So if I wrote like 15 pages of absolute and utter nonsense, but it's very detailed, would that prove that he's wrong?

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Actually, no, it wouldn't. I tried to illustrate that to him by just basically giving him a quick response and telling him eventually that if he doesn't, if he responds to me, if he responds to this email, then that proves that he's trying to convince himself he's right and therefore

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I'm right. That was the argument that I ended up making with him is to say that if he responds, that proves

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I'm right. That's a bad way of arguing, by the way, but it's it's something that people will do because, well, they lack an actual argument.

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Now. I'm going to show let me click back to sharing the screen so you could see what his argument is here.

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Now, let's let's see what this detailed argument. He was very upset with me that I responded quickly.

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I gave him an answer. I basically told him he was a joke and not worth my time because I actually have things to do.

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Obviously, he doesn't. Now, he thinks that this was a very detailed argument that he made.

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He says, now I will prove that Adam was black. And he's going to base it all from this book.

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What? I guess I can't. There we go. He's going to base it all on this book. Biblical history of black mankind.

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Now, I want to show why doing original research is important.

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He believes that this work that he put together, all from one source, mind you, from the biblical history of black mankind.

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He's going to make all this argument from there. OK, he's going to give some videos, by the way, you got to love when a place calls themselves

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Real History WW dot com. I mean, that's got to be classic. If if a group has to call themselves

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Real History, it usually means nobody else is saying this because they can't support it any other way.

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So it's kind of one of the things like when people have to claim their own intelligence.

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Right. So let's just look. This is not going to take very long to debunked.

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It's actually in the very first sentence. Now, this is one that I'm going to spell out some of these things for those who are listening on podcast.

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So in this book, Biblical History of Black Mankind, chapter one, page five, he says that C.

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McGee Livers states that who is Adam? OK, so this is from that resource and it says, quote,

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The Hebrew word for Adam, A .D. A .M. is Adham, A .D.

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H .A .M. That's going to be important. He's adding the letter H in there. That becomes important and is phonetically pronounced

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Adham, A .D. H .A .M. Now he goes on to say in biblical days, a name said a lot about an individual.

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According to Brown Driver Briggs Hebrew lexicon, page 10, the word

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Adham means dusky. Taney to have dark skin, thwarty, shadowy, it also means mankind.

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So notice here what he did. He says that Adam really should be pronounced

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Adham. Well, here's what I would like to do if we can just go to well, let's go to the

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Hebrew. Let us start. For those who can see on screen, I have my logos up here.

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We go to the word Adam in our English. We'll right click here so that we can get the word that that is there.

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And we'll do a quick word study on this. And what do you know? It comes up as Adam, A .D.

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A .M. No H in there. So what we could do very quickly is click on the

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Brown Driver Briggs. And as you can see, for those who are watching, here's the Brown Driver Briggs.

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So you see exactly what I'm pulling up. This is what this gentleman didn't do. Notice, if you will, in his email, it just says

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Brown Driver Briggs lexicon page 10. That's interesting, because what we end up seeing is when we go to Adam, the actual word we see here, it means man or mankind.

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So definition number one is a man or a human being. Definition number two is man or mankind.

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Definition number three is first man. And definition number four is a city in Jordan in the

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Jordan Valley. Hmm. Nowhere does this say anything about shadowy, dark skin.

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None of that. That's because this is the actual word Adam, which is how you would pronounce it.

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Not at home. You see, what he did here is he fell for a very simple trick.

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And he thinks this guy is so scholarly. He didn't check the work. If he would have checked

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Brown Driver Briggs, he would have realized that this guy, McGee Livers, who wrote

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Biblical History of Black Mankind, he would have realized right away that the guy's telling falsehoods because that's not what

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Brown Driver Briggs is saying. Brown Driver Briggs is saying that the word Adam means mankind.

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Now, he goes on to add the letter hot for the H sound when he goes to his when he's going to his thing here.

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And for those who can see if not, I'll spell this out. But notice he's saying A .D. A .M.

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should be pronounced A .D. H .A .M. Giving himself a new word. And that word can mean now that word happens to mean not dark skinned, but just dusty.

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OK, or from the earth. So what he does is this gentleman, whoever wrote this book,

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Black Biblical History of Black Mankind, what he's done is done a bait and switch.

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He does something that sounds really good, that Adam in English should be at home.

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But if you again look at this, let me show you, this is an Aleph. That would be your

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A sound. This is silent, a silent vowel. This is your

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Dalif for your D. Here is the A and that's the M. So Adam.

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OK, when you have this, so these are going to be basically.

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What you have for the letters, you don't have an H sound and H is let me see,

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I could probably pull this up real quick because we'll give you a quick I bet. Here we go. I don't think I left it up.

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Here's the alphabet. So here's your Aleph. He's arguing that this letter is in there, the hay.

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Do you see a hay anywhere in this word for Adam? No, you don't know.

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You know why you don't? Because it's not there because that's not how you would say

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Adam. And so what he's done here is he has done fell for a bait and switch.

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He fell for something that, unfortunately for him, he's believing is legitimate.

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And it's not so. I feel bad for the gentleman who is trying to argue this way.

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It's a bad way to argue. You should not be arguing. You should do original source material.

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OK, and when you do, you end up seeing that things like this are not legitimate.

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Now, if if he wanted to come in here, I know he's in watching and he was commenting earlier.

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And I don't know. So he's still commenting, but he's not in here now.

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Obviously, it's easy to get in here because we got three other people who are in. But this is what I want to show you with this is.

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Excuse me. When we do this, I want you to recognize how easy it is to disprove these arguments, because Brown driver

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Briggs does not say that Adam means shadowy, dark skinned or any of that.

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OK, and that is an easy way for anybody.

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How to be able to just if someone mentions they have a source, go back to that source, don't accept what's the name of this book again?

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Biblical history of black mankind. Don't accept that as if that's all you need.

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OK, because. What we end up seeing is when people do that.

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They don't go back to the original source and you may be fooled into thinking something.

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As this gentleman was, he's fooled into thinking that Brown driver Briggs actually teaches what he thinks it teaches.

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And this is why I would say that the guy is a joke, because he hasn't done basic, I mean, basic stuff.

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We didn't I didn't even have to get past the rest of this email. The rest of it was just as bad. But the reality, because it's all based on that, that assumption, and yet the assumption is false.

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So what that's the thing I want you guys to see, it is important to do original research.

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It's one of the things that makes my job difficult, because that's what I do when someone gives me articles. I don't just take their word for it that someone else said what they said.

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I go and research that. That's what you do when you're going to do original research. You're going to find that there's a lot of times that these sort of things you can easily pick up are wrong.

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OK, and so this is important to do. Now, unfortunately, this gentleman doesn't want to come in here and discuss this, but we're going to see if maybe he will later.

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He's probably so, you know, he said this took him so long to respond, so long to type up and therefore

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I needed to give him a detailed response. I didn't need to go much more detail than that.

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Right. The basis of his argument is based on a falsehood. I just showed you

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Adam means man, mankind. It doesn't mean dark skinned.

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OK, so we're going to add in I added in manager a one.

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Let's see. Let me bring your volumes up. Where are you? All right. So you can unmute yourself.

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Let's see. I don't know if I can unmute you. There you go. Do you have any questions for us tonight?

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He muted. I just unmuted you. You remuted yourself. So go unmute yourself there and see when

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I'm when I'm doing both host and both roles here. I'll unmute you again here if I can.

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Let's see if that works. There you go. So manager one, do you have any questions for us tonight?

18:34

OK, I think he said no. He doesn't have any questions. Shake your head if you said no, because he said it quick.

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And we didn't hear the first one. And I just want to make sure

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I will try to watch the chat if you end up having a question. There were a bunch of folks chatting away in the inside chat here.

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I'm going to add Kat, you were in next, so you can unmute yourself. And I know you mentioned something about a

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Bible earlier. It's hard to read two different chats when I'm also trying to read my own screen to talk about this stuff.

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So how are you doing, Kat? I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. Oh, well, yeah,

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I guess I could say that to you now. I'm ashamed. OK, yeah. Well, no, I wanted to ask because today was the first time somebody posted a scripture that was automatically generated.

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And it was from the, what is this called again? Lexham English Bible.

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It was Isaiah 28, 10. Well, yeah, no, really, it was just 10.

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And how that read was for it is blah, blah, upon blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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upon gaga gaga upon gaga a little here a little there and I initially thought the person was being disrespectful to the scriptures until they pointed out it's actually a translation of version of the

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Bible which is a little different from like in the ESV for it is precept upon precept precept upon precept line upon line line upon line here a little there what verse were they looking that up in it is

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Isaiah 28 10 and so my concern was not really what the scripture itself is saying but for me to see a

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Bible where it is is translated as blah blah upon blah blah I just wanted to know what if anything you knew about the

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Lexham English Bible because it seems a little disrespectful in my opinion and I could be viewing it totally wrong yeah so excuse me the

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Lexham is the only familiarity I know of Lexham I first came upon it when it came to the to log us

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Bible software and that's what they use and yeah I just I just looked it up to confirm that's by the way what we were talking about earlier what we do when we do original research you say it go check it out and yeah it's in verse 10 and verse 13 that's a very interesting interesting translation that they did

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I'm not too familiar with the original translators here that did the translation

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I know I don't know the only time I ever hear of Lexham is tied to logos so I don't know if this comes from the logos scholars

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I'm trying to dig that up right now who it is I don't know in the footnotes it says specifically for that scripture

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I'm reading in this context the Hebrew expressions and I don't know how to pronounce it

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TSAW TSAW and QAW QAW are likely meant to sound like baby talk but they could mean command upon command and roll upon roll so I don't know like I said

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I I got a little you know I got a little um hair on the back of my neck went up and I kind of you know blah blah scripture does not say blah blah blah blah so yeah they're saying that this is for a smoother translation let's let's do this oh thank you

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Charlie for that link which let's see Charlie Charlie is quick with the links he's awesome he is the link information resource king

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I am convinced that Charlie knows I'm convinced that Charlie knows the the quorum site better than Matt's like I'm just convinced of this because he has those links for quorum faster than Matt can get them at times seriously so let's see if I could share screen and I will share that Bible I should probably make this larger for folks who are watching because it's probably kind of small all right so here this is in the

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English Standard Version and if we take a look at precept upon precept and look that up okay it is it comes up here as actually not used too many times most of it right here in this

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Isaiah actually all of them except for one in this Isaiah 28 so precept upon precept is nothing or worthless vanity destruction and so if you look here a large margin that for folks that they get an idea they can read this but as you see there it does say blah blah upon blah blah gaga upon gaga and so it does seem that the they're thinking and this is this other word here we can quickly pull that one up and it says that this means babble okay line upon line we actually which is interesting all right because if the word here means babble where it says line upon line if that actually means babble then maybe blah blah and gaga make more sense if precept upon precept is meaning vanity or nothingness as maybe you can see it's worthless as you can see from the word

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I think they're trying to emphasize my guess the translators maybe to emphasize its meaninglessness and it's babble now this would be really hard for those that are the

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Hebrew Israelite because they turn to this passage all the time to say this is how you interpret the

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Bible and they always focus on the here a little there a little because they say you have to grab a little here grab a little there that's how you're supposed to do your oh

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I have I wasn't sharing was I just noticed that yeah you weren't sharing at all well

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I could let me go back why didn't that share you know we'll hang out sometimes yeah it's glitchy when you get a chance also check out

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John one one that's a little odd in the lectern yeah in the

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LAB yeah but yeah but go ahead and show everybody this one okay now you want me to show everyone yeah whatever you want but I mean so here you see it for a while upon gaga and if you see that the meaning of the blah blah there is worthless or nothing and the gaga that they translated is babble the new

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English the English Standard Version has it as precept upon action almost all translations I know do a precept upon precept line upon line here a little there a little the the

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King James would be similar so that's kind of interesting isn't this the verse that the black

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Hebrew Israelites use to determine other scriptures correct they will use this one part now this is the thing so let's let's bring up just for since we're talking about the

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Hebrew the fake Hebrew Israelites since they don't want to be called black because they say they're not black we'll refer to them as fake

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Hebrew Israelites because they're not Hebrew Israelites so we'll look at the

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Holy King James Version we'll make that a little larger so it can be seen and for precept must be upon precept precept upon precept line upon line line upon line here a little there a little now they focus just on this the here a little there a little and they will argue that's how we're to interpret scripture we take a little from here take a little from there that's how you interpret well that's really bad because if you look at this it's saying it sure looks like it's saying in English at least you build one precept upon another precept one line upon another line and you know looking because I haven't actually looked into the

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Hebrew here until today with this but you know maybe this is a better translation because it if the word is nothingness then what this would be saying is for nothing must be upon nothing and nothing upon nothing babble upon babble babble upon babble here a little there a little now when you read this in the context right you see that for a stammering lips it's gonna talk about nonsense people that try to use doctrine and they created of non now that's the context there which is

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I think kind of interesting that the Hebrew Israelites always want to go to this because if they actually read the now we understand they focus just on line upon line or sorry on on here a little there a little they focus just on that to say hey you're supposed to grab a little bit of the

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Bible here and a little bit there and slam them together we call that proof texting by the way when you grab different passages of the

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Bible out of their context slam them together that's called proof texting that's not how you're to interpret that's a bad way to interpret they do that all the time and they argue for this so they say oh you're not supposed to read the

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Bible as if it's a novel that's exactly how you're supposed to read it so let's take a look

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John you said John one one yeah check that out see if that's a in the beginning of the word and the word was with God and the word was

29:05

God okay you're okay on their website it shows on their website this shows this in the beginning was the word and the word was

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God was with God and the okay never mind I told you mr.

29:26

I yeah I miss read it and the word was

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God okay okay so vocab never mind how he can come in so vocab go to apologetics live .com

29:40

there is a link to join there that you can join us I was hoping that vocab would come in I should give a shout out to let me try to read this full belly bear full belly bear gave $4 .99

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in a super chat he says he's currently reading your book vocab so vocab you have someone that's out there reading your book and I actually need to get a copy

30:02

I should ask vocab it when he gets in here how do I get a copy for folks who don't know while he's we wait for him to come in vocab is probably

30:12

I don't know anybody who has researched fake Hebrew Israelites more than vocab

30:19

Jason Manning just gave a $5 super chat vocab needs the got the

30:25

Google Hangout link how about freestyle with Andrew so let me just I will just drop the link in here there you there's a link vocab or anyone else that wants to come on in how do

30:40

I get that to go away so vocab Malone has probably done more research than anybody

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I know with the fake Hebrew Israelites I know that they love to challenge me because well

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I'm actually an Israelite they don't like that you know and the way you you can tell someone is by their from their genealogy you go and you ask who's their father and their father and their father and so on and so on and so on and when you can trace your line all the way back then that's who your your genealogy is so I don't know if this is vocab or a or a

31:23

Hebrew Israelite they're coming in with some Hebrew is their name and the font is way too small for me to read so you could just unmute yourself looks like I am okay so I am

31:36

I'll just call you I am you can unmute yourself or not there we go what's your name

31:51

Javier Javier how are you I'm doing great how are you good what's your background

31:57

I'm a Christian live in California currently in college all right now help me out because the font is way too small for me to read this in the screen what's the

32:11

Hebrew I could see it's Hebrew but I can't read that no it's just the name of God yeah okay so the

32:21

I am I was like okay all right so do you have any questions well just listening to you guys talking about the other version okay okay well if you have a question you can just unmute yourself and jump on in vocab is here by the way full belly bear just gave a $1 .99

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super chat saying haha fake Hebrew Israelites now vocabs probably gonna get on my case for calling them fake

32:57

Hebrew Israelites and tell me I gotta be nicer or something vocab how you doing brother

33:03

I am doing all right can you guys hear me good yes okay is that a flying spaghetti monster hat or something no this is a he's called the lookout guy so back in a day

33:20

I used to be a amateur graffiti artist so this guy's got really big eyes and a couple spray paint cans so he looks out if you're doing graffiti art that's who that is since you asked well

33:35

I figured if it wasn't that it's gonna be some I thought it'd be some pop culture reference I wouldn't get it John would come in here laughing

33:41

I don't get pop culture but so vocab before you came in I was responding to an email that I got last week and the gentleman or I'm assuming gentleman was in the chat so he was watching my response but didn't come in to respond he basically was arguing that the word

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Adam that we would say in English is properly pronounced at hot at home and means dark skinned dark or shadowy and it can also mean mankind so we were going through the

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Hebrew there for the word Adam to show it actually just means mankind so first off before let's let's give folks a little bit about you and where can we get your book it's on Amazon and it's also on a website called the book patch calm those are the two places give it he's gonna reach for it give the title of the book

34:43

I don't know what you did with your lighting but man it made you look like you were uh it's uh called

34:50

Barack Obama versus the black Hebrew Israelites and I'm trying to adjust my lighting is it better now oh yeah before you look like it actually

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I don't know what you did with the lighting it was really cool because it just what everything behind you is white right angelic yeah

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I mean you look at when you had yeah if you turn if you turn at the camera where you had yeah but there's there's the book it's got a nice glossy cover and it's called

35:22

Barack Obama versus black Hebrews alike because there's a movie scene that was like Obama's biopic and there's a brief scene where he argues with some

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Hebrews lights in this in this biograph biographical pic that was on Netflix and so I said that's a good title for the book

35:39

I have not seen that video it's just it's not it you know it's an actor so I don't know if it happened but he did walk through Harlem when he was at Columbia so it's hypothetical that it could happen which that means

35:51

Obama is the earliest apologist against Hebrews lights well

35:58

I don't know about that because I think they I know that I've been arguing with him for longer than he's been president but I don't know

36:05

I'm just kidding hey we just got a super chat from soldier for Jesus Christ 999 and it says

36:12

God bless you brothers in Jesus Christ so a lot of people want to give that extra 99 cents or just wanting to save a penny so so you've done some vocab

36:23

I think more research on the fake Hebrew Israelites than anybody I know what got you studying this particular group out well so they they first appeared on my radar when they started showing up in my kind of in my neighborhood in my old city which is

36:45

Columbus Ohio and they started busting into churches in the middle of services there and my friend who was in the neighborhood

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I had moved to Phoenix already he told me about him and he said do you know who these guys are and I did not know them at the time but I looked them up and found out and I said whoa this is because this is about a decade ago

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I said this is some religion you know and so I just kept it in my mind you know but I'd never saw them or ran into them until one day in Phoenix I did see them so I said let me go talk to them because I actually know a little bit about them and it was just a wild conversation

37:27

I recorded the audio and I said maybe people be interested in this even though I don't think anyone knows who these guys are so I uploaded it and everybody wanted more they wanted answers you know and so I was like well let me give you some resources so I'd go around and look for resources and I realized there's not really very many resources on these guys what do

37:47

I do so I said well I'll just do it until someone else steps in and then

37:52

I kind of just ended up getting stuck there well were they when you say they're busting into churches were they busting in to african -american churches or white churches or either dominantly historically black churches they would come in tell everyone they're

38:09

Israelites and they need to keep the law and if the congregation didn't accept it which they never did because you can imagine they would curse them out in their fake language and then they would leave right before the cops came okay now you brought up the fake

38:23

Hebrew language so let's talk about that because they do I remember one of the first times

38:30

I had someone on the street try to tell me I don't know Hebrew they did it because they gave this long paragraph or so in something that sounded sort of Hebrew but not really

38:45

I couldn't I could not discern any almost no words Lashawan Kodosh yeah that's what it's called it's called

38:55

Lashawan Kodosh most Hebrew speakers cannot make out what they're trying to say so where did this come from well this is something

39:05

I never usually do but I'm since I'm writing about this I'm gonna see if this makes sense if I read something that I'm working on writing and I think it will explain it the main difference between Lashawan Kodosh and modern

39:21

Israeli Hebrew is that the former does not possess the vowels o e or u nor does it have consonants that produce the sounds for V the one vowel that Lashawan Kodosh has that is not present in modern

39:38

Israeli Hebrew is an I as in pie or kite which is only produced in the

39:43

I in the 16th letter of the Hebrew alphabet proponents of the Lashawan Kodosh dialect assert that this letter can only be pronounced as an

39:52

I in other words they believe and then I've got a I got a little chart here

39:57

I'm working on that kind of breaks down the way they pronounce each each letter and I'll just read it to you here because you'll you'll see this is this is their alphabet pronunciation what

40:08

I'm reading here ka -ya -ta -cha -za -wa -ha -da -ga -ba -a -tha -sha -ra -ka -ta -za -pa -ay -sa -na -ma -la that's their alphabet blah blah blah blah and so their dialect comes from the fact that Lashawan Kodesh means holy tongue but since one

40:35

Westers this is the certain type of Hebrews like who uses this they pronounce it Lashawan Kodesh similarly they pronounced a popular greeting

40:43

Shalom as Shalawam or Shalom with regard to their salutation one of the groups who broke away was called the house of David they went underwent some evolution and they used to do

40:57

Shalom back in the mid 90s but then they realized there was a Vav in there so they switched to Shalawam and later to Shalom that's hard to say

41:05

Shalom over time then they basically admitted this group particularly this is one of the split -off camps that they didn't know

41:12

Hebrew and so now they just say Shalom so a lot of times when one of these groups will break off from the one

41:19

West variety their language will undergo some kind of change as well like G -O -C -C they're the only ones who call

41:26

Jesus Yeshaya whereas everyone else calls him Yahawishai but yet they're still a one of us

41:32

Hebrews like group it's a common thing they do since none of them know Hebrew they'll make these weird changes sometimes when they break out and some of them just become pragmatic

41:41

IUIC even though they hold a Lashawan Kodesh they say well nobody knows it so we'll just call them

41:46

Christ like everybody else and their name is actually Israel United in Christ they don't even use the Lashawan Kodesh even though they still hold that it's valid so it's it's a it's a big mix -up thing but there's a lot of Hebrews alights who aren't involved with this and they either want to learn real

42:03

Hebrew or some of them actually learn real Hebrew but those are not the guys you encounter on the street you know now this this form of or dialect of Hebrew we see

42:15

I think the earliest we see it is for in Harlem in like was it the 60s yeah and there's some debate about that because Abba Bivens is now understood to be the originator of it in some way but up until recent times everybody thought a guy named

42:32

Arya was the originator Arya had some kind of vision or dream it's a little bit unclear you have different versions of the story and they're all oral usually from former members sometimes from current members and it basically is he he saw a black man or a black angel speaking a language he didn't understand and he said what's that and he said that's the language of your forefathers and then he had the

42:55

Lashon Kadosh alphabet basically from that but it's come to light really the

43:01

Abba Bivens was bringing out this language although it wasn't really in full force at the beginning stages of the camp and so that was slightly before so it's unclear exactly when it fully developed because this group the one

43:15

West variety of Hebrews lights these are the guys on the street these are not all Hebrews lights but they're the most militant and visible prior to that they had broken off from a group called the commandment keepers and the commandment keepers fancy themselves related to the

43:28

Ethiopian falashas and they actually engage in trying to learn real Hebrew and so this is sort of actually a devolution where now you have this

43:37

Lashon Kadosh and it's just one more way to say we're not affiliated with the Jewish stuff basically because then they call modern

43:44

Israeli Hebrew they call it Yiddish which we do have a Yiddish and it's a mix of Hebrew and German I grew up hearing that in my household but and and that's this is one of the things a lot of people may hear if they encounter these guys on the streets and there's they'll hear people say well

44:06

Hebrew went out of convention people didn't speak biblical

44:11

Hebrew and they spoke a Yiddish and therefore no one you know the people who claim they're they're

44:19

Jewish and claim that they speak Hebrew today really don't speak Hebrew because nobody knows what it sounded like and and they claim that you know they have the proper pronunciation and therefore everyone else is wrong one of the things that I there's some truth to this that the majority of Jewish people spoke would speak a

44:43

Yiddish dialect and not a not Hebrew as they do in Israel today speaking a

44:50

Hebrew and I the thing that people have to understand though is in synagogues the rabbis still spoke

44:59

Hebrew they would still read in Hebrew because that's what the

45:07

Torah would be in that's what the you know when they're reading from the Scrolls it was in the same Hebrew so they've been doing that in the synagogues all along and so they would have the pronunciations having passed down so it doesn't have to be the common tongue of all

45:24

Jewish people for it to be lost completely I mean it's kind of like people would say that traffic like with with with Latin taking over with a church when people would speak

45:38

Latin and therefore to then argue that we can't know what Greek sounds like because no one speaks that anymore that actually be a better argument than the

45:49

Hebrews try to make but because not as many people spoke Greek but Greek was still spoken and so you can figure out how to pronounce it

45:58

I think when they try to make this case that the Hebrew language speaking it died out until they kind of revived it is just not a good way of arguing because we have rabbis and synagogues for centuries who have been speaking it and therefore they would be able to keep the pronunciations so I don't know if you have any thoughts on that well

46:26

I mean the history is is good to explain and break down because most of them sort of have a caricature of Jewish history especially in the modern era and a lot of it is based on a revisionist history that's partially of their own devising and they they generally just don't accept it and so you know one time

46:57

I brought some of this up and I said you know the first teachers at the old commandment keepers school and even aria there's a old picture of aria this is again the guy who's credited a lot of times with bringing out lash on kadash there's a little picture of him at a bar mitzvah now his father was bringing him there who was also involved with the commandment keepers but that's significant that shows there's a rabbinical

47:25

Judaism influence on the early days of even the modern Hebrew Israelites so we brought out you know all these guys that you look up to they learned whatever

47:36

Hebrew they knew from mainly Ashkenazi Jews in the United States or from their grammars sometimes but a lot of time from like exposure to rabbis and Jewish synagogues and when we bring that information out and kind of explain why that's an argument partially against their position because one one group of people are retaining the language and the other one is not they actually one of their main defenders use this elaborate analogy and forgive me

48:12

I give you get a partially wrong give the short version it was something like this the folks who

48:19

I think in Japan who had originated jiu -jitsu and if someone knows please correct me if I'm wrong they essentially over time forgot how to use it in the finer points of it and it was sort of a lost art with the place in which it originated but it was still practiced in Brazil and so then when the people

48:44

I think it was the Japanese again excuse me if I'm wrong wanted to regain the knowledge of their own art form that they had originally invented apparently a lot of them came to Brazil and studied under people like the

48:58

Gracie's Brazilian jiu -jitsu to understand their own lost art form he actually used that as an analogy to say so we had this language we didn't retain it but this other group of people who are ultimately imposters they retained it and so we're picking it back up for them but it doesn't necessarily mean we are not the people and they are if that makes sense that was an apologetic yeah well it's

49:28

I want to clarify some terms because first people who don't deal with these guys on a regular basis may not know and I want to do two things you've mentioned a whole bunch of groups

49:37

I want to get to that because that's gonna be a longer thing but define for folks what an

49:42

Ashkenazi Jew is when and they make that distinction so you know

49:48

Andrew correct me where I'm wrong but here's here's the way I would put some of these things there's a such thing you might call scholars that study this called modern

49:59

Jewry J -E -W -R -Y and it means we've had a spreading out diaspora diaspora and so because of that people all the way back from the 70s the 130s all the way back you know the first or second century has spread out all over the world and went different places the short version is those who kind of went through Europe and stayed there for a really long time those are

50:32

Ashkenazi Jews so they have a similar phenotype that means a display of their genetics the way they kind of so -called racial characteristics that look similar to Europeans but in a lot of times in the

50:45

West that's when we're cussing the scene knows we have a big nose and dark curly hair and you know why we have a big nose by the way right

50:55

I mean I'm Italian so I can't really say nothing bro I mean you have a big nose cuz air is free okay

51:03

I don't know the reason why we have them but uh you know Mario and Luigi have big noses for a reason in their caricatures but but so you when you when you look at that the thing is we're we're kind of limited a lot of times

51:18

I think in a perspective of water and what modern -day Jewry is because we see primarily especially in pop culture the

51:25

Jerry Seinfeld's the Larry Davids the Larry Kings people of Ashkenazi Jewish descent but there's a few things to remember about that as far as the ethnic features it's a mistake to say first century

51:39

Jews look like identical to Ashkenazi Jews and it's also a mistake to think that Ashkenazi Jews are the only kinds of Jews because they're

51:48

Sephardic Jews that's mainly Spaniard descent and some of their traditions and other things are different it's not an identical there's

51:56

Yemeni Jews there were Iraqi Jews they're almost all gone and if you look at Iraqi and Yemeni Jews they don't look the same however when we do a lot of genetics we see matches between these different groups and there is at least one group in South Africa slash

52:16

Zimbabwe who had matches up especially in the male priestly clan of this group in Africa called the

52:23

Limba and everyone was surprised when they showed that these folks had up to 50 %

52:29

Levant DNA on them on the men's side there's sort of a shock but and they have traditions a kind of match but ironically a lot of them are

52:37

Christian the Limba people but they look different than Ashkenazi Jews and somewhat to the

52:42

Sephardic and definitely to the Yemeni and definitely to the Iraqi and then you got Moroccan Jews so folks in North Africa you know the closer you are to Levant generally speaking even though there's been some

52:53

Arabization it appears the more likely it is you look as if that's the main thing but look probably to a first century

53:02

Jew from what we can tell and the reason why we say that is because there's something called bio forensics they go and they take first century adult male

53:11

Galilean skulls and they can get a general idea and they look pretty close to Iraqi Jews and again they're almost gone now there's

53:19

Iraqi Jews is now sort of a thing of the recent past they're almost left but it's the reason why

53:27

I had to look at this stuff is not because I had a deep desire to know some of those things it's because I had to deal with Hebrew Israelites and so it's countering their truth claims now ultimately it's the gospel what is the gospel who is

53:41

God but along the way you know you defend defend move on because their obsession with who are the people of the book it doesn't become your obsession but you need to have some facility to answer it if you're sort of specializing this

53:59

I'm not saying everyone needs to do that you know I'm not I'm not saying I'm just saying for me it has to become something that I'm you know learning constantly about and so I hope that was helpful to what you're asking

54:12

I want to I want because you just mentioned it's about the gospel so let's get into because someone had asked in the chat what it is they believe and this is gonna be hard because for folks who are listening or the the thing you have to understand and I think vocab is gonna could do this if you haven't figured already he's mentioned several different groups the thing that I think makes this so hard to research these guys is they're not a single you know group think type of and there's some things that they almost all have in common but very little they're like all over the board when it comes to their theology and what they believe and it's gonna depend on which group you're talking to but could you go over at least some of the basics of what they would believe that would be different than what we might believe and now some will say they're they're

55:06

Israelites some will say they're Israelites that are Christian they'll claim

55:12

Christ but not all will yeah that's a minority position we'll say we're

55:17

Christian sometimes they'll say that's minority position they'll say we're the original Christians or something like that but yeah most don't accept the deity of Christ some don't right so could you go just give it like an overview of at least some of the main things maybe that they would all pretty much agree with and then where we would see some differences and and then where would we differ from them when their

55:44

New Testament acceptors if they accept the New Testament most of those guys are close to a

55:50

King James only position or heavily favorite that's a common thing almost all of them that I've ever met because it's a big deal most of them reject any other modern -day claimants to being ethnic

56:08

Jews you know so whether they're Sephardic or Moroccan or Yemen yeah I mean they reject all everybody most of them have some form of ethno ethnic hierarchy built into their system so some it's very crass and base and it's like this

56:25

ISUPK for example will say you're gonna go into hardcore slavery

56:30

Esau and the other nations will be there with you you know the Arabs and the Asians and the

56:36

Africans will be there with you and you're gonna be in hardcore slavery and that's you're gonna be your lot for the rest of eternity something like that others say no no no you guys are gonna be brothers with us in the kingdom but we'll have a relationship that's sort of like husband -to -wife they've been give different offices of position and leadership and Judah out of Israel always must lead and that's why

57:00

Gentiles cling to the garments citing an Old Testament passage of Israel for entrance into the household of faith so they basically when they have that view they replace

57:12

Christ as the mediator and they put Israelites in the place instead but they'll say you can be our grafted in spiritual

57:19

Israelite brother but a lot of times they don't let you teach and it people always focus and I understand you know they'll say white people well most of these groups though they have a whole othering system othering you know where you kind of do a xenophobic maneuver to put someone over there well as I mentioned

57:39

Asians Indians like East Indians you know Pakistan you know that they're all

57:45

Arabs as well you know people of European descent and some other groups too so it's not just you know white folks or whatever it's it's whoever they other but at the hierarchy is a standard feature of there's a softer version and a harder version but it's a standard feature of all the groups a rejection of the

58:07

Trinity I know of one exception and they're a group that looks closest to Christianity and they're not influencing you know the guys out on the street necessarily when it comes to the deity of Christ a lot of times they haven't thought carefully through it mainly because it's not a very important issue to them and some of them will say yes but you got to understand there a lot some of them are you know theistic meaning they actually have other gods in their system in a way kind of like a

58:34

Jehovah's Witnesses schema and it's a little unclear sometimes what they understand by divinity in terms like that when you ask them about that and so that's it that's issue and in salvation by work some of the groups are crass where yeah you're earning your salvation others are a little more sophisticated where essentially it's more like alchemy you know they're like no no we're saved by grace but then you must do the works of the law or you don't retain that grace you know or some weird hybrid version so as they spread out some of these groups are getting mildly more sophisticated and so you got to kind of ask them what they mean and see what's going on and sometimes they do this

59:20

I'll give you a example dialogue and this is the last thing I'll do because I mentioned several things that are kind of held in common the

59:28

Christian might say to the Hebrews like are you saying that the Bible doesn't say that we're justified by faith apart from the works of the law and the

59:35

Hebrews like might say what do you mean you've just got to have both we just read that and then the

59:41

Christian will point to Romans 3 28 and say well it says right here therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law or works of law and he was like might say yeah that's the works of the sacrificial law you guys don't understand that works the law is talking about the sacrificial law and they'll say what do you mean by that about that well for example

01:00:01

Christ is our Passover so we celebrate Passover but we don't have to sacrifice the Lamb or things like that so they have these strange thing they'll say oh the laws done away with and a lot of times when they read it they'll actually supply the word of sacrifice they'll say so you know the law is obsolete the law of sacrifice is obsolete you don't say and they'll do something like that and they're basically saying you don't have to kill animals anymore so interpretation of Scripture is a big problem that they have throughout you know you mentioned the othering they do one of I one of the things

01:00:38

I think when it comes to logic I find so interesting they will try to argue you mentioned line of Judah being important they will have groups they'll say the

01:00:50

Africans that were in the slave trade and came to America are from the line of Judah those that are in Jamaica I forget who were there they basically argue that the tribes were taken by the slave traders and and dropped off at different locations by their tribes

01:01:14

I find that to be one of the funnier things that they try to argue and not all of them argue that but those that do

01:01:22

I find it so interesting because when they do it's like wait are you telling me someone who is kidnapping somebody from another country and his major concern is to keep the the tribe together as they ship them across the ocean to sell them as a slave like that they're gonna make sure that they keep all the tribes of the same together it's it's like just logically that's not gonna work so give me a second

01:01:54

I've got a great quote on that man I hope I can find this I gotta okay while you while you do the quote let me let me some someone mentioned in the chat about your the reference you you quoted someone else referring to jiu -jitsu and so someone was asking if you're giving a little bit of a correction

01:02:12

I can confirm it so jiu -jitsu was founded in in Japan there's a

01:02:19

Japanese jiu -jitsu and there's a Brazilian jiu -jitsu Brazilian jiu -jitsu is really from the

01:02:27

Gracie's at least the way the the the story goes from the

01:02:32

Gracie's I forget which which Gracie was that physically could not compete he just sat and watched as they practiced jiu -jitsu and he was really practicing they're doing a

01:02:43

Japanese jiu -jitsu and he would watch it but he couldn't actually compete because his health from a child was told he wouldn't be able to to do exercise and there was a time where you know no one could teach the classes so he started teaching but because he just was observing he actually had he noticed different things of the techniques to improve because he was watching it and not practicing it he picked up on different things and that's actually what started what's known as Gracie jiu -jitsu or Brazilian jiu -jitsu it became

01:03:18

I guess when it came to America they they were calling it Gracie jiu -jitsu because it was the Gracie family and it kind of became synonymous almost with Brazilian jiu -jitsu just because of the fact that you know people were calling it

01:03:35

Gracie jiu -jitsu in America even when it wasn't specifically from the Gracie's so there's a there was a back sometime

01:03:43

I think there was a difference between the Brazilian and the Gracie's but I think that's pretty much just mangled up now and people don't

01:03:50

I mean there's people refer to him interchangeably and so but yeah there

01:03:56

I don't know that they lost it thank you Jason it was Hilo Hilo Gracie was the one

01:04:03

I'm gonna assume that Jason does some jiu -jitsu so I was also going to kind of point out since we're talking about black keepers of lights um when

01:04:15

I first started learning about them and doing the research on them YouTube is not exactly the safest place to do the research

01:04:23

I found out um because you will hear a lot of racial insults and slurs and it is quite embarrassing and it's pretty bad

01:04:37

I mean there are some groups out there that are pretty harsh when it comes to speaking with other

01:04:45

Jewish people or even even like other black people

01:04:50

I mean they if another black person does not agree with their their theology I mean they are completely given all sorts of insults well because it's pretty bad yeah most of the training that I've seen that they get is on YouTube and there's tons of stuff on YouTube and yes when it comes to someone when someone like me who

01:05:15

I will say I am an Israelite I am Jewish they really have a problem with it and they get very irate and yeah it is the language can be very very racial someone was commenting in the chat stuff that and I've heard this myself that someone would say that we're you know eventually we the white people are gonna be the slaves of these folks to put it the way the one guy you know it's so interesting

01:05:45

I called out one guy for his language because he was claiming he's an Israelite and yet he's using foul language

01:05:52

I called him out on it and the leader they have like a hierarchy and the the one leader was telling to watch his language but we got the video of their video they put it up online and when we walked away they were screaming like what the one guy was going

01:06:06

I can't wait for the the race wars to start popping so we can get these crackers being our slaves and raping their women and and that's really a you know you end up with some of the groups they are so not only racist

01:06:20

I mean hyper racist but their view is is really a revenge for something that none of them actually suffered

01:06:28

I mean none of them were actually slaves in America but it's like this they want to get this reverse you kind of a reverse justice as if that's somehow is gonna that they're somehow going to be the slave owners and the interesting thing with it is nowhere in the

01:06:51

Old Testament you see where the Israelites are gonna be you know as a part of God's blessing that they're going to be owning other people as slaves and so it's one of the things that they they say they're they're they're

01:07:09

Israelites but you know it's one of the things that I would see different you know they don't quite follow let me just give a quick shout out to Jason Manning who says he gave a $2 super chat

01:07:20

Andrew rapport and vocab freestyle freestyle has to do with some hip -hop and vocab can do that maybe you don't want to hear me rapping rap report rap report as close as I get to rapping that's right there in the name but um actually this is where more the doctrine comes and you said something that none of them suffered they believe in reincarnation so they did suffer it oh really yeah yeah they believe that Jesus is

01:07:54

Adam Solomon Isaac and I forget who else for example some of them even believe that so they they believe that he's

01:08:05

Solomon and not David interesting it appears so it appears so Wow and they used to teach one of their one of their teachers who's now dead a guy named

01:08:19

Masha they taught that he was King David reincarnated and so when he broke away and started his own school he called it the house of David but that's important to consider and then

01:08:33

I found this quote that was relevant you mentioned about the transatlantic slave trade it's a very short quote but it's very interesting this is

01:08:39

General Yohanna speaking he's the leader of the ISUPK which is the

01:08:45

Israelite School of Universal Practical Knowledge listen to this quote quote slave traders sailed for months and days to get to specific points they knew what people they were taking specifically the lost tribes of Israel end quote so they actually think like Esau you know whoever the slave traders were essentially is you know working in this wicked way where they they know who they're getting yeah which is which is

01:09:19

I mean I just don't picture guys that are involved in slave trades caring about that right and then another thing that I always find interesting is when

01:09:31

I when I'll talk to someone was everyone who is an Israelite were they part of the

01:09:37

African slave trade and I've had a couple of them that will say yes if they were a slave that means they're part of the

01:09:45

African slave oh yeah and when they say that I just turn and say okay so you're telling me you have a brother and a sister or a brother and a brother or a sister and a sister and one of them is an

01:09:56

Israelite because they were captured and taken over as a slave and the other wasn't that's well their heads their bets if you ask them that some of them have thought about it will say well there could be some remnant left among the

01:10:09

Hamites and so that's why some of them are doing missions to Africa now but you know you mentioned about there's no place where it says

01:10:16

Israelites were on slaves there are passages they use for this and uh you know if you haven't heard these it can be tricky so Isaiah 14 is probably the most common one for the

01:10:28

Lord will have compassion on Jacob and will again choose Israel and will set them in their own land and so sojourners will join them and will attach themselves to the house of Jacob and the peoples will take them and bring them to their place and the house of Israel will possess them in the

01:10:46

Lord's land as male and female slaves they will take captive those who were their captors and rule over those who oppressed them so that's a key proof text there they say what do you mean we are gonna have slaves so they'll point to the ones and there's some other ones like that that they'll point to such as Revelation 13 9 10 this one's especially egregious the

01:11:10

Isaiah 14 1 could be a little more challenging the Revelation 13 1 though actually it's not gonna translate it as well as far as for their purposes in the

01:11:21

ESV because the ESV is more accurate here to to the the grammar but you still get the idea

01:11:27

Revelation 13 10 says if anyone is to be taken captive to captivity he goes if anyone is to be slain with a sword with a sword must he be slain and the

01:11:40

KJV rendering of it makes it sound like you hypothetically could look at it as oh if anyone enslaved they'll now be enslaved and if anyone captured they'll now be captured but uh that is talking about on a lot of interpretations depending on your interpretation of eschatology but that well even if you want to make it more general you don't have to get into the eschatology basically saying during times of persecution whoever

01:12:11

God is deemed and predestined and foreordained to experience certain levels of trials and tribulations and persecution that's what they'll experience that's that's what the passage is actually about it saying

01:12:24

God knows who experienced what and it's God's will who will suffer in what way it doesn't have anything to do with if you captured somebody now you'll get captured but that's how they render it yeah and let me uh there's a guy

01:12:40

Israel rise that's guy that sent the email I'll challenge him to come on in go to apologetics live .com

01:12:46

there's a link to join you could join and if you think that you can argue make better arguments because he's he's saying he wrote the he's uh he's gonna eat

01:12:57

I guess he's gonna email you but he's got a more legit argument but you know there's the thing

01:13:06

I find interesting about this vocab is I've had for I forget how long a couple years all of these guys that were telling me they want to debate me and they wouldn't they wouldn't show up I don't know if you remember the the debate that I did sort of debate and and folks you go striving fraternities

01:13:25

YouTube channel and look up black Hebrew Israelites you'll see two debates out there one the first one was really to show that none of them were willing to show up and debate and I basically debated all the guys that said they would debate me and they all showed up and we showed an empty chair and I debated an empty chair but it did get you know someone to show up and I did actually get a actual debate and I think it went well because he really didn't make his points well and I didn't quite know who he was but you actually knew of him actually

01:14:00

I think you called me at like 2 in the morning to talk about it once did I I do not

01:14:08

I do not remember to be honest who was it it was let me I gotta look up his name now if you show me

01:14:14

I don't remember I'm so sorry no well you I remember you called me at like 2 in the morning and that was uh that was when it was what he it was you who else was on the calls you it was there two others oh

01:14:31

I can't remember who and it was an accidental Skype call and you guys were just talking about that guy that I had debated

01:14:39

Zodak I think was his name Zadok yeah

01:14:45

Zadok okay okay well you know we're on West Coast time sorry

01:14:55

Zadok Zadok been Israel yeah yeah yeah he debated that's good that's good um he's um he's not a one -wester he wouldn't say the thing about hardcore slavery in fact here's his analogy well

01:15:14

I think I already gave it didn't I where I gave the husband -and -wife relationship that's his relation that's his analogy for the

01:15:22

Israelites and other nations at the at the end of days so he wouldn't have a hardcore slavery position he actually does

01:15:31

Christian hip -hop so he's been in churches and stuff and goes on tours and stuff and I don't think most of the churches know what's going on with this theology so I've made a couple of videos where I try to let people have a chance to know what he teaches and believes but yeah so there's a fellow

01:15:54

Andrew here he's a from a land down under and he said he's got a question about slavery so let me that's my friend

01:16:01

Andrew Graham I I know Andrew that's me yeah well my ceiling is up lately then

01:16:11

I'm dead otherwise I'm well but my question

01:16:17

Abraham was had Eliezer as the first slave essentially how do they reconcile that what do you mean exactly

01:16:29

I'm I don't how they reconcile what the war what would they have to say about that they have anything to say about that my guess they would say that's how it should be okay okay essentially so this was interesting ask them is slavery wrong and if it's one of the guys who believes in hardcore slavery for the other nations they can't actually say objectively morally that you know chattel slavery or Bruce they can't say it's wrong it really just depends who's doing it to who yeah although we know in Abraham's case because we see the relationship with Eliezer in fact he was gonna possibly become the heir that uh yeah it wasn't that it wasn't like antebellum slavery but that's what they know saying yeah that's that's the order of things that's the order of things okay and I thought it was gonna cuz

01:17:21

I mean it's it says as it says as you know in the Bible it says it's one of the conversations that he has with God he's talking about how his

01:17:29

Elias was gonna get everything that's mine and I is where Isaac isn't gonna get any well

01:17:36

I don't have a kid yeah yeah so that's not you know that's nothing like antebellum slavery you know yeah in the south you know yeah so we understood but yeah

01:17:50

I just thought I'd try and figure that one out thanks all right so so we got Israel rise came in you can unmute yourself and we could see if you could make your argument better by way vocab he tells you to go to Hosea 1 doesn't say anything else he just told you to go to Hosea 1 well

01:18:10

I have a question Israel rise you said all praise and glory to you how is shy why do you say

01:18:21

Israel which is modern Israeli Hebrew pronunciation but then you say you how was shy which is

01:18:26

Lashawan Kodosh which language or version of Hebrew do you hold to why are you why is your name modern

01:18:33

Israeli Hebrew but you're using you how is shy because you're mixing two different forms of Hebrew because if you believe

01:18:42

Israel is the correct pronunciation for Israel then you shouldn't be using you how a shy that's what

01:18:50

I'd be very very interested in Israel rise I've unmuted him he keeps muting himself

01:19:00

I guess he doesn't want to talk or try this again oh did you understand my point what

01:19:06

I was trying to say Andrew yes because you how a shy is what they call Jesus you know

01:19:13

Yeshua right and so that's how Lashawan Kodosh would do it but so yeah he's not gonna answer he just wants me to he

01:19:23

I don't think we're gonna sit here and read all of Hosea 1 he's saying read all of Hosea 1 and he dropped out well someone could look at Hosea 1 if they'd like and we could talk about it

01:19:38

I don't I don't want to someone else could read it I could eat a rolled taco real quick or something here's the problem you could read

01:19:46

Hosea 1 but just saying Hosea 1 is not an argument because the issue is what about Hosea 1 how is it he's interpreting

01:19:57

Hosea 1 what's the argument he's made what's he saying that we should find in Hosea 1

01:20:02

I mean we could go a lot of different places that Jason Manning I think got it right he said he tapped out that's a

01:20:11

Brazilian to just be term so he came in and tapped out he didn't even he didn't get very far vocab isn't that where they name the kids yeah well

01:20:30

I think I think vocab your first question must have scared him he said that he when he came before he came in in chat on YouTube he was saying that he could provide a better argument than you but what was the he was saying it was an argument for what for the hardcore slavery is that what he was saying

01:20:50

I'm not sure yeah I can read them out real fast

01:20:55

I can read them just like that what they say or how they say it the world Lord that came to Hosea to sign her free

01:21:03

I don't know that that'd be that that's yeah so I'm not sure what his argument was and that's that's you know this is they give this as a learning thing for folks and sometimes

01:21:20

Christians do this as well and this is a bad thing to do do not think that just by shouting out a citation of Scripture that that is always an answer to an argument okay if if I just give you a citation that is not an argument if we're having a discussion and you say well look here this is gonna answer it and you give a citation and that's that directly answers it that might be one thing but a lot of the times we end up finding is that people give citations and the real issue is it comes down to how you're interpreting that passage or what you're seeing that how that passage applies to this and if you just give the citation that's not that's not a refutation and a lot of people do argue this way and it's a bad way to argue the citational by itself is not enough you have to give an argument and and that's why we're struggling now with his because we don't know what his argument was we only know

01:22:19

Hosea one what about Hosea one the idea that he's trying to say

01:22:28

I think he's talking about the lineage and such because he's saying in Hosea 1 8 it says when when she we know mercy she conceived and bore son and the

01:22:39

Lord said call his name not my people for you are not my people and I am

01:22:44

NOT your God I think he might be saying that's evidence or proof of some kind of temporary rejection for Israel and so that's proving that they would no longer be clearly identified as the

01:23:03

Hebrews lights and I think he would want to go to the other part of Hosea to say look but then there's a time where God is calling them back to himself or saying they're his people again maybe he was so I maybe he was saying something about this is a prophetic in regards to Israel losing their connection to to God and then getting it back it might be but of course here's the thing with this this needs to be interpreted in light of Romans that's that's and that's what they don't like to do because when

01:23:39

I go there and I show them they'll say so wait you're trying to tell me the guys who were not as people and now are are

01:23:47

Gentiles I say well what else are you gonna do with Romans this and that's where they get into this weird thing where a lot of them take the word

01:23:56

Gentile in any kind of scripture that indicates something positive towards Gentiles and guess what they do they say that simply means is scattered

01:24:05

Israelite in a Gentile state of mind lost Israelites is what they're saying it means whenever it's contextually helpful though but they don't do it all the time they'll say and if you laugh at that they'll say well don't you believe the context to determine the interpretation now

01:24:22

I'm giving you some of the more sophisticated guys arguments because a lot of the guys don't do that but I try to say here's the best because because here's let me make some predictions

01:24:33

Hebrews lights are gonna grow and like every other religious movement as they go on they change one of the things that causes these groups change is substantial interaction with Christian critics when that happens some of the groups will develop more sophisticated arguments and they'll do things like ripoff

01:24:52

Jehovah's Witness arguments ripoffs Islamic arguments that are helpful ripoff actually some perhaps in some cases yeah even maybe the anti -missionary movements among you know

01:25:05

Jewish people things like that and every now and then develop some of their own Oh tap into Hebrew roots movements first and then and then take

01:25:14

British or Anglo -Israelite movements and then flip them around so they've got a lot of resources actually to get a whole cadre of more sophisticated bad argumentation my point is that's gonna happen because I'm seeing their changes in the past three years where some of them becoming more sophisticated so here's my point it's true there's silliness that goes on but watch out people don't always join religions or whatever it is they're getting a part of strictly for intellectual reasons there can be powerful emotionally and morally felt needs that the religion satisfies and the intellectual arguments almost become a afterthought but it catches up to where those intellectual arguments aspect of it become more sophisticated over time so my point is they're gonna do this and you'll see it and we'll just have to kind of be ahead of them and constantly shutting each one down like a game of whack -a -mole but I just encourage people to watch out because you may think they're the eisegetical underdog and they are but these groups can creep up on you and we just got to be prepared that's that's sort of what

01:26:27

I see in the future and so the apologetic community should be aware at least those who are engaging with this well you know this is done that pill often known as Taylor when

01:26:37

I talk about Islam you end up having this a lot where logic when you get them to a point where logically it doesn't make sense they just they don't care

01:26:47

I mean they'll throw logic out the window you're seeing this I mean here you know this guy that came in that sent the email and I'm just looking back as I was trying to see if he gave an argument and he ended up saying

01:27:01

I'm gonna email vocab and even more legit argument now that's interesting if we if we parse that because what he's saying is the email he sent to me is not legit he's gonna send you vocab one that's more legit but yet the one that he sent me is based on taking one word

01:27:22

Adam and and instead looking up the Hebrew for adhum and saying they're the same they're two different words so that's like me saying you know that the word

01:27:35

I'm traffic of two words that are close save and slave that they have you know that we could just use them interchangeably because they only one letter off they'd have a huge difference in meaning and so that's his argument so maybe he'll send you a more legit argument but let me ask you this when you're saying the the more scholarly how do they deal with it

01:28:06

I mean a key verse that they that they have is the Deuteronomy 28 passage

01:28:12

I think it's a 50 it's the last verse but I think it's 58 or 59 that's the key passage now you're saying that some of them are going to you that we should look in context but if you look at that passage in in context

01:28:28

I don't see how you could possibly get to the point of where they try to argue for this being a prophecy well

01:28:40

I mean I wasn't necessarily saying academic although there's a couple guys who tried to dip into academic sources every now and then but sophisticated like more steps because a lot of times

01:28:53

Hebrews lights are used to catching people in the street and being able to drop them in a metaphorical sense with one punch so when

01:29:04

Christians have responses you know they become over time more adept at being like oh I need to have a counter response to this it's taking them time but they're they're getting there and then they start borrowing borrowing all their arguments some of them even rip off Christian apologetics and just change a couple things because consistency is not a hallmark of the religion

01:29:24

I think though what the guy was trying to say with Hosea 1

01:29:30

I texted a friend about this and and it and it makes sense just briefly what they try to do is to say

01:29:38

Hosea 1 & 2 are clearly referring to Israelites so then when Romans 9 quotes those texts

01:29:44

Romans 9 has to be referring only to Israelites and that is the proof text they use for the method of turning the word

01:29:55

Gentile sometime into an Israelite instead of allowing Paul to define his terms where he's clearly saying those who are not my people will be by people the

01:30:04

Gentiles they go back to Hosea and say no this is only the context here of these folks being

01:30:10

Israelites so when Paul quotes it that means it's saying these are Israelites and so it's a way to basically say

01:30:17

God is saying there in Romans 9 the Israelites who are far off are now gonna be part of the the proper body because a lot of them basically view that that's what's happening like that's what they're doing right now they're sort of fulfilling that prophecy so I don't know if that makes sense it's all it's almost like they retcon it for the nerds and audience who know what retcon is but I think that's what he's probably trying to do with Hosea 1 and 2 does that make sense answer what

01:30:42

I'm trying to explain or no well it's the first time I'm hearing it I'm trying to understand it in their perspective and I can see that it would

01:30:49

I think fit with their perspective right there I think it would fit with the context no of course not because you you have to not allow

01:30:58

Paul to define what his terms and in and follow his own argumentation of all the

01:31:04

Pauline letters but even within that little Romans 9 through 11 pericope and but that's that's one of the ways they they do it is like limiting the interpretation based upon the understanding of Hosea that they would utilize and then saying this so this is just another way to talk about lost

01:31:23

Israelites Gentiles the proof is Hosea 1 and 2 did it Paul's doing the same thing as in Romans well let me throw this out for folks to when it comes to interpreting scripture one of the key there's two key things when we're gonna interpret scripture the first is context

01:31:39

I think a lot of people understand that you have to read it in context the context defines the meaning of words the meaning of phrases if you say something that is an idiom that you're gonna see that from the context if I say

01:31:53

I'm so hungry I can eat a cow you don't think I could literally eat a cow you're gonna recognize that as an idiom because it doesn't make sense but you know just those words by themselves but there's a second thing that vocab just mentioned that's a second most important thing when it comes to interpreting scripture and that's called authorial intent what did the author mean by what he wrote and if you heard what vocab just said it's well what did

01:32:23

Paul mean by his words Paul knows the meaning of his words Paul had a meaning for his words our job is to understand what

01:32:32

Paul meant by his words not to say what does this mean to us today or how could

01:32:37

I use Paul's words to make an argument that I wish the Bible said when you do something like that and you take the

01:32:44

Bible and you you try to see how it fits into something that you want to believe you do not have

01:32:50

God's Word you have man's word to give a paraphrase quote that's translated from John Calvin Calvin had said something about that if if you twist

01:33:02

God's Word you have nothing but man's word and that's what these guys have they have man's word which with with a lot of wishful thinking and vocab you really hit the nail on the head what

01:33:15

I find with many of them it is an emotional thing this is why when you try to argue with them and bring out the text of scripture and a lot of times you sit there and try to explain context and they really don't care they don't care a wit about that it's more an emotional thing for many of them it's something that they're trying to have a superiority

01:33:38

I want to say or other groups of people that's that othering you were mentioning well folks who study this as far as what you might call black religion in America recognize that one of the common features is to respond to historical white racism or white supremacy encroachment upon societal issues and the second is to have a properly framed sense of identity since if you have what looks like to be some kind of Christianity that says it's okay if you're black and we're gonna make you sit up in the balcony or it's okay if we say you can't read the

01:34:27

Bible unless your master is present and that kind of thing happening having a response to that and so if you look at for example the nation of Islam it tries to answer those questions and so it gives a response to those questions to those struggles to those challenges and then adds another component which is not only that but the doctrine is wrong and then there will come a doctrinal critique element as well and so Hebrew -Israelism does that as well and so you know we've got a document that's part of our founding document in the

01:35:03

United States that has slaves as essentially counting as three -fifth a person, court decisions that say black folks are property separate but equal but it was never equal and always just separate and you look at this and it's laws and there's redlining which is if you're black you cannot move into a certain area and this is actually done by city planners

01:35:29

I mean this stuff really happened and then sometimes there weren't little red lines and maps but there were invisible lines you couldn't cross and if you did you got in trouble like the 1951

01:35:37

Cicero riots where 4 ,000 white folks attacked one black family moving into an apartment in Cicero it happened in 1951 it's it's unbelievable you have all that happen and then someone says see this book that's important this book's about you your descendants of the people spoken about in here in this book and guess what it doesn't just teach you to quote love everybody like you've been taught this teaches you that you're better than everybody and in the future we'll build a nation in which you rule over them and the way we can get there is by returning to God and our culture how do we do that by keeping the law statutes to commandments in order to begin to raise up our nation and then when we do that God will come back and do the rest and then instead of it being

01:36:34

Gentile heaven like it is now it's gonna be Gentile hell and Israelite heaven and that guy's name that just came in here reflects that Yisrael rise and in Lashon Kodosh it would be

01:36:45

Kwam Yasharallah Kwam Yasharallah means rise Israel when do Hebrews lights out on the street say

01:36:51

Kwam Yasharallah one main time they say it other times but there's one main time where the

01:36:59

Hebrews lights out on the street say Kwam Yasharallah so the rising of Israel it's whenever they get a member of another nation to bow down and kiss their boots that's when the

01:37:09

Kurais of Kwam Yasharallah are generally offered forth and it's a sign to them of the vassal relationship that should be proper and so it's happening it's starting to happen is sort of the way it is which is the opposite what it's been happening to our people prior to this so you know theology is one thing but this is different than Mormonism because there's other factors involved that aren't quite as present in other religions because some of the questions being answered are different and I just encourage apologists to understand that if they're gonna get involved with this and I think we should always be open to learning new facts about history and learning new ways to be empathetic without empathizing for people's bad doctrine and so I just mentioned that to say there's a lot going on sort of and that's why the religion's growing it's not shrinking well

01:38:09

I think I think it's grown because there isn't there is a a lot of hard feelings very

01:38:18

I'm trying to think of the right word but it's an emotional issue with the whole issue of racism on and this guy do you think feeds into it it says this is the same superiority that we saw in Nazi Germany where they could then suppress other people because they're superior they have this right to do it because they're better and so that becomes something that I think is appealing for many of them

01:38:46

I don't think they're doing it because they've they've studied the scriptures and they see this clearly taught

01:38:54

I think that they want it to be true because it makes them feel superior it makes them feel better about the the life they have in America and they're gonna have an even better one and everyone's gonna be subjective to them well they might just simply say yeah and that's what your people have been doing to my people for the past 400 years yeah so it wasn't my people because my people never did that you know well

01:39:22

I mean people in the 40s were slaves people in the 40s were slaves yeah

01:39:28

I mean honey well there were Jewish slave owners if yeah there were Jewish slave owners yeah

01:39:34

I mean it would either were there were some it would but my family wouldn't have been like if tracing my family back we weren't in countries where that were slavery

01:39:43

I mean if you go far enough back but I would I wouldn't have been my family wouldn't have been in America during the slave period and we would have been in countries that didn't have slavery so I did you so when they when they say that well you're responsible

01:39:57

I'm like how well reincarnation ah so so okay so let me ask you this so with the real if the viewer reincarnation do that would they argue that everyone reincarnates of the same melanin can't you can't jump ethnicities and in fact most of them teach you can't tribe jump either really if you're

01:40:22

Levi you've got to stay Levi although there's a little bit of debate about some of them about that particular issue can you tribe jump but all of them agree you cannot jump ethnicities it doesn't mean you're gonna look the same or anything like that but you can't jump ethnicities so let's see so so you have

01:40:36

Adam and Eve and well well so we're all the spirits born before Adam and Eve were created well if you study and this is again

01:40:52

I've I've just simply had to study this like for example this is a book on Cambridge it's called the forging of races and I'll just read one thing from the back of the book fixing his attention on the changing relationship between race and theology in the

01:41:08

Protestant Atlantic world between 1600 and 2000 Kidd shows that while the

01:41:14

Bible itself is colorblind its interpreters have imported racial significance into the scriptures and so you look during the age of empires and you find that the hermitic hypothesis and the curse the curse of Cain all very significant and in a lot of a lot of interpretation and even pop pop understanding of the

01:41:42

Bible in certain ways so those sometimes those interpretations got really bad and and the thing is

01:41:51

I've had to read this stuff you read commentators and you're like oh my gosh you know where they basically say there's no way this is not everybody this is some but you see this there's no way the

01:42:02

Africans could have come from Adam and Eve and they start developing no longer you know monogenesis for everybody they'll have different sources for different people groups and the reason is is because you know suppose of the

01:42:19

European in a shock that the inferiority of the African during the colonial era so even the missionary sometimes would posit these folks must have come from somewhere else basically or they would actually sometimes mix and match evolutionary concepts even

01:42:33

Christians and the thing is the the thing is this stuff is it's in the records when you start reading it it's really saddening so they would do things like that my point by saying all that is some of the

01:42:45

Hebrews like to do the same thing where you just mentioned Adam and Eve some of them have

01:42:51

Adam and Eve being proto Israelites and progenitors for Hebrew Israelites but not for anybody else and some of them get pretty bizarre with how they accomplish this

01:43:05

I'll just share this and in fact I don't know if you guys heard this last week here in Phoenix Hebrews are light thought his wife was having affair and so he killed her two of his three daughters and his brother who was his camp leader

01:43:21

I spent significant time with that camp called Yahashua's servants in Phoenix or Yahushua's servants in Israel depends which day you ask them and they taught me this interpretation

01:43:32

I didn't know where they were going for it until the end and I was like are you guys serious here's what they teach part of the sin of Eve and Adam was intermingling with the other nations in some way some of them will say that and then when they hide among the trees remember it says

01:43:51

I hid among the trees they teach the trees are the other peoples the other nations and you'll say wait a minute and here's the way it works they'll say well

01:44:02

Adam and Eve are one strand of people but there were other people present for example that explains where how

01:44:07

Cain got his situation where there is already people present other nations but Adam and Eve are sort of a direct line to Abraham but they're proto -israelites that's a word they actually use they use the phrase proto -israelite these guys who get into this interpretation and you if you laugh at it they'll say oh well don't you understand that the

01:44:26

Bible identifies sometimes trees or bushes as people and you'll say what and they'll go like like a tree planted beside the water is a man who you know and they go to places where they can kind of show that some kind of similar metaphor and they'll say so go back here in Genesis these trees are actually this sort of Adam and Eve's of the other nations and Adam and Eve are hiding among them and my point is they'll had now this is the one

01:44:56

West interpretation these are the guys on the street if you talk to like other

01:45:01

Hebrews lights there they'll say that's crazy you know they're not they're not gonna agree with it they have strong disagreement however they still will call them their brother they'll still say they're their brother they'll say their behaviors off or their tactics aren't good or some of the theologies wrong but they'll still consider them a brother in some meaningful way to them well see

01:45:21

I mean the thing that I mean this is where it gets confusing because this is let's say the reincarnation view if you have

01:45:30

Adam and Eve then okay which did Adam get reincarnated as an

01:45:38

Israelite or a Hispanic or you know Arabian or you're right because you have two people unless like you're saying they believe there were more people on the earth or I guess the other way would be if they start believing in things that Mormons believe that God created all the spirits and is just giving them bodies and then when they get that body they stay within that tribe and that ethnic group

01:46:02

I mean I I'm guessing that's how they'd have to argue it seems like a strange argument and you know if they're going to and this is the thing that I always do when

01:46:11

I get guys that say like you're saying they're gonna say well trees or bushes can refer to people okay if you're going to make that argument that a tree can be you have to show why in Genesis 1 2 & 3 this is actually

01:46:29

Genesis 3 why a tree is actually a person because I Genesis 2 well 1 & 2 when

01:46:39

God creates plants they're really people they would probably must say oh these are the other people groups maybe but the thing that would be a problem is then you must be consistent then every tree must be people was the fig tree that Jesus cursed that's exactly that's where they get into they'll try to say don't you believe in context or that's where they might bring in line upon line precept upon precept to show that this is a proper interpretive method or sometimes if they're frustrated they'll say you know what this is why

01:47:14

Gentiles shouldn't even be picking up this book this book's not even for you anyway it's not given for you to teach it's not given for you to interpret you're not a spiritual people you're a carnal people you know you think you know something but you can't interpret this book anyway so just you might as well just put the

01:47:29

Bible down go have a bunch of sex and do whatever you crazy Gentiles like to do and just wait for your slavery because that's all you got to look forward to again these are the one

01:47:39

West guys on the street and the reason I mentioned them primarily is because those are the guys you're kind of running into because you know

01:47:45

I saw you street preaching and stuff like that that's a kind of guy out there but Zadok for example he would disagree with a lot of this and he would say vocabs at it again he always takes the bad seeds of Israel and he lumps them on all together and that doesn't make any sense because Hebrew is a light is simply an ethnic designation what kind of person takes an ethnic designation and then starts talking about religion he was like is an ethnicity they could have all kinds of different religions something like that and of course that claim of course is circular for him to say

01:48:21

Hebrew is a light is an ethnic designation it's based upon his understanding of a religious claim so even him saying that it's it's circular no like no no no because you saying that is assuming what we're talking about which is the

01:48:32

Hebrews light is an ethnic designation strictly because that's what you're holding to as part of your religious claim it's not a religious claim why do you say a religious claim because you're using the

01:48:42

Bible to try to justify the make that's the main way you're giving your justification for this belief that's a religious claim proper so that's that's kind of how it is but if like Zadok watches the show he'll say this is why people don't trust vocab because he always tries to lump everybody in together and and all that kind of stuff although I try to be careful because there's no sense in lying or giving people bad information you know

01:49:05

I'm saying but you listen to your average Hebrew is like they say the term Sunday Christian and they literally just mean all

01:49:12

Christians so like if you know as far as being careful we were very far ahead in that category you know

01:49:20

Sunday Christian describes all Christians well I had I had and I think you saw this some of the video on this when

01:49:26

I was out in New York City I had been I basically we had someone that was doing some open air evangelism and we were training them and helping them and so he's up there and he got a black

01:49:37

Hebrew Israelite and so I started to kind of mouth to him ask him this a because it was for me it was training him and then all of a sudden his buddies came in and I realized okay time for you to come down and I'll get up and deal with this because it there's a specific way to deal with them in the especially in the open air like that and and he was gonna get overwhelmed because they'll come in a mob mentality you got to identify one and and just deal with the one and try to get the others to be quiet and show that they're being rude because that's what they'll do they try to out shout you and it's a common thing now the interesting thing with it was when

01:50:16

I took that and then I did a podcast about that incident and played some of the video clips and you hear the audio you hear the way

01:50:24

I'm trying to teach people how to deal with these guys on the street we actually had a group and I'd have to look up and I probably still have the lawyers thing somewhere and I could probably tell you which group but we actually got a letter from an attorney telling us to take that down because I stated that some groups believe that that they'll they'll enslave whites and rape our women and and this group doesn't believe that it was it sound like Israel is like ICCC I think or something

01:51:00

I you I see yeah okay I would love to see that letter please okay please please please

01:51:06

I had a similar situation where when I began my doctoral studies at Talbot which I've had to discontinue for now hopefully one day

01:51:13

I get back there because this thing is kind of taking over my life but uh when I was first starting and um

01:51:21

I did like one interview I didn't know it was gonna be such a big deal and I talked about what I was doing and stuff and studying it and whatever the melanated

01:51:29

People's Council of Elders I don't know what that is sent a very long professional legal like looking

01:51:39

PDF document email to Talbot's Dean basically threatening legal action against Talbot if I was allowed to proceed with my prop with my doctoral project because it was racist and they were quoting me giving time codes from the end it was unbelievable and I had to talk to the

01:51:57

Dean and he was like well actually I had to talk to the president but long story anyways he said

01:52:02

I've never seen anything like this we've never had a situation where you know like a student was threatened by the is bizarre right why

01:52:14

I mean we got we got a letter to the ministry telling us we had to cease and desist we had to pull that down because their group doesn't believe that and basically our attorney said well you know if you if you listen to the podcast and he gave the the timestamps he said some believe this and then and I said the attorney

01:52:37

I said if you want we got video that's on a YouTube channel of a Hebrew Israelite where they're saying exactly what

01:52:44

I said they say now I didn't say they all believe that and so and this is where you're saying we do have to sometimes be careful and someone like Zadak will you know call you out if you if you say this but unfortunately this may be more the majority that you're gonna see on the streets believing this maybe not the majority of them but right and that's difficult to see no one really truly kind of knows the numbers but as far as on the street yeah that's who you know you know kind of see and but yeah

01:53:15

I want to see that letter that's anything I don't see I'll send it to you they've got into some of that some of the groups are starting to get into a mild

01:53:23

Church of Scientology tactics like that because we've had some other situations like that and so you know it's basically this is not a group most apologist

01:53:34

I think want to get involved with basically it's not it's not real fun unless you think stuff like this is fun and you basically have to like really want to be beaten up and torture yourself to enjoy with this group yeah it's like you know you just have a certain vibe it's like it's all good bring it on you know like the way

01:53:59

David Wood feels about you know hardcore that he deals with like he's perfectly happy you know and so I I kind of have a similar mentality

01:54:11

I'm like all right it is what it is guys so I listen to videos where they're talking about me and stuff and just shake my head and laugh every now and then they say or do something that genuinely bothers me but it's few and far between yeah so we're gonna we're gonna be wrapping up and I know

01:54:29

I don't know if you if vocab you see the inside chat here but John's gonna do an after show

01:54:35

I don't know if you want to join that or not usually that's more of an open discussion where anyone can join in the free for all really

01:54:44

I am okay to join but maybe some other time here's why remember I was reading you the stuff that I was writing

01:54:51

I am behind on that and I have to get back to the writing and I wanted to come on for a little bit with you guys but I gotta

01:54:59

I know you want to come on for an hour you've been on for an hour and a half and I know I still got a I gotta be teaching tomorrow to Good Friday service and I'm still not done so I know

01:55:11

I'm gonna have to do that I'll throw the link out for a hangout on the council's website

01:55:17

Facebook page and I'll just see if anyone wants to join in if no one joins in and hey if you could drop the link in the chat the outside chat if you want and also my channel is premiering a little 12 -minute interview about with Jeff Durbin about Jesus being the

01:55:34

Messiah and so I want to be able to be free when it premieres so well listen before you before you go vocab give it you know how can folks get ahold of you find out more material

01:55:45

I mean they can go get your book mama vs. hero Israelites yeah if you just type in yeah

01:55:52

I'm working on a second one but will it ever get finished you know working on it not if I keep getting in here yeah okay the only thing that I want to say to you is a

01:56:07

Mohammed was why yeah white prophet power you know that is the funniest video ever that was the most hilarious discuss

01:56:22

I mean this they didn't know what to do they were just like no it was quite a day all right guys

01:56:31

I gotta go all right well okay coming in and for folks as we wrap up just thank everyone who came in and fortunately the guy who wrote that email

01:56:41

Israel rise didn't rise to the occasion to actually stay in here

01:56:46

I mean we didn't even get to hear his voice vocab asked him one question one question and he bailed he tapped out you could probably figure out why that might be if you were here for the beginning and you heard me read his email actually go through the

01:57:02

Hebrew and you realize that the arguments he made just are not logical valid there it's it's basically he was trying to do a form of a fallacy of equivocation sort of but doing it on on the sounds of words so but folks if you if you're interested in finding out more of the podcast we have here the shows we do we have a podcast called apologetics live you could subscribe to that it's free you just go click on the link so you can listen to everyone they download to your podcast app and we thank vocab for coming on yeah

01:57:44

I hope I hope everyone gets to see vocab really knows their stuff in this then and that's why earlier today when

01:57:50

I was gonna respond to this I shot him a quick text to say hey you want to come in because as I think you guys saw he he can address these things much better than I can for sure this is not an easy topic or group just to research because they don't have things written down they don't have like one clear belief system they're so fragmented it's so difficult so you know really if you could find out how to help vocab in getting this out here because this group is growing it became more known after that recent incident with the the kids who were at a

01:58:32

I think it was a Trump rally forget what it was and but they got national news because supposedly this

01:58:40

Christian high school group was going after the black heroism lights when you actually watch a real video it was reversed but the thing that we see is that this group is growing and there's not a lot of people that are willing to do the research like vocab said it's not something a lot people want to study it's not something easy to study so if you guys can help support a guy like vocab in what he's doing it is a benefit to all of us who end up having to deal with these

01:59:10

Hebrew Israelites as they continue to grow so go check out the work he's doing get his book that will help him that'll help you

01:59:18

I'm gonna go I have not gotten my own copy but I plan to order it tonight because I clearly need it

01:59:24

I deal with them a bunch but folks this is a ministry of striving fraternity we put this on we hope it's helpful educational to you

01:59:33

I want to encourage you to go check out the rest of the podcast on the Christian podcast community we have a growing list and it's gonna be growing a lot more we have several podcasters that have already applied and want to join so if you're paying attention to the

01:59:51

Christian podcast me you're gonna see a bunch of new podcasts coming out on that feed and in that in there you could just go to Christian podcast community org and you can see all the ones that we have there and it's gonna be a growing list and so we appreciate that if you could support us by by downloading and listening to them by hitting the subscribe button on whatever app you have go search for them and add it to your library and so want to encourage you to continue praying for Matt slick as he's out trying to take care of packing some of you may or may not know his wife is basically can't do any of the work in packing up their home he's trying to do the entire thing himself while still working while doing everything that he's doing and so they're gonna be trying to be moving

02:00:42

I think the date now got pushed out because they just weren't ready there's some some things with their health insurance that becomes a problem if they move too early their deductible starts all over so they're having to stay there until that can get figured out so hopefully

02:01:00

Matt and I'll both be back next week we'll see but if not if you're watching this live or listening to it tomorrow from when we do it live is resurrection

02:01:10

Sunday I hope that you will think about and put in the forefront of your mind the fact that Christ rose from the dead but he didn't just rise from the dead for no reason he rose from the dead which vindicated that he was

02:01:23

God Almighty who came to earth as a man died on a cross as a payment for our sin paying the price that we owe that we could never pay

02:01:34

God himself paid it on that cross and he died was buried as he predicted

02:01:40

Jesus Christ said that he would raise himself from the dead three days later and that's exactly what he did dead people do nothing when they're just a man they rot but when you're

02:01:52

God you can raise yourself from the dead vindicating that he was God and that he can offer to you the forgiveness of sin if you repent that means to turn away in your mind and you're thinking turn from trusting yourself as a good person turn from your good works and turn to the what