WWUTT 910 Q&A Essential Doctrines, Signs of a Cult, and Hidden Treasure?

Friday Listener Questions: Essential Doctrines, Cults, and the Treasure in the Field

What are the essential doctrines of the Christian faith? What are some of the signs of a cult? And what is the meaning of the parable of the treasure in a field? The answers to these questions and others when we understand the text.

This is When We Understand The Text, a daily study in the word of Christ, that we may be blameless and innocent children of God, without blemish, in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom we shine as lights in the world.

Visit our website at www .wutt .com. Here once again is Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky.

You're welcome. Now being Friday, we take questions from listeners. Yes, we do. And you can submit your questions to WhenWeUnderstandTheText at gmail .com. This first one comes from Shirley, and she says, Hi, What?

Hi. After spending some time on your channel, there is no doubt you care about others. Aww. The strong essence you bring out in yourself is a force to be respected at Wacko. You allow others to find brief moments of harmony within themselves when they spend time on your channel.

Wacko is a high-quality, full-spectrum hemp oil helping to honestly educate people on the history, quality standards, and health benefits related to CBD. Mm-hmm. If you are open to discussing why CBD appeals to you specifically, I would be happy to send you information that is tailored to your curiosities, experiences, and needs.

Smiley face. You can learn more about our elixir on GetWacko .com. With gratitude and harmony, Shirley. No, thanks. I changed the name of the product. It's not actually called Wacko. I was gonna say. But I wasn't gonna prop it up for him.

Good. So.

I'm glad. But no, no, it doesn't appeal.

This past week, I've received three emails from this gal. Oh my goodness. And they're all different. They're not all the same email. Okay. But that was the first one. Awesome. Anyway, they want us to sell their hemp on what videos?

No thanks. Clearly, they haven't seen the one we've done on marijuana. Obviously. So anyway, like we said, you can submit your questions to when we understand the text at gmail .com. We're heading to Canada for the first two questions.

Christian Exclusivism, Essential Doctrines, and What Makes a Cult

Hello, Pastor Gabe and Becky. Hello. Question mark. I'm sure it's for the spelling. You got the spelling right. Perfect. Yep. This is Johnny from Canada. Greetings from Canada. Don't know if you guys get snow down there, but hope things are getting warm for you guys.

They actually are. Yes, we had a beautiful 70 something degree day on Thursday. I don't think it quite got up to 70, but it sure felt nice. Not quite, but it was close. I had my hoodie on, never had to put a jacket on or anything like that when I was working out in the garage.

Today is supposed to be close to 70. And then we're going to hit some 70s next week. Which is amazing. Also a chance of thunderstorms.

Which is not okay. Because about this time of year, we get the tornadoes.

We're getting closer and closer to tornado season.

Tornadoes and hail that can be up to softball size. Yeah, we can get some pretty big hail in Kansas.

But there have already been parts of the country that have, they've had tornadoes this year.

I hope it's not that bad around here. Might be a rough season.

We'll find out here. Anyway, Johnny goes on with his question. I want to ask, what do we do with exclusivism, particularly Christian churches that claim that their local church or denomination is the true church and all others will perish because they don't belong or believe?

We don't have any churches around here like that, do we? No. Just down the road in Topeka is Westboro Baptist Church.

Yeah, they have a reputation that goes much further than Kansas.

According to them, they're the only group of people that's getting raptured at the second coming. I've heard this more than a few times when sharing the gospel. This doesn't shake my assurance in the least.

But I tend to put this in the cult category when I come across it. I'm gentle in this approach and only ever told one person that exclusivism is a cultish characteristic. Exclusivism adds to grace, which I see to be a highly offensive attack on the gospel.

So I can at least say it is an error. But is it classified as a characteristic of a cult? I recently had an encounter with a coworker and was told because I wasn't a part of their church, I assume I was condemned because we don't believe what they do.

We will perish, which are no TV, no upbeat music, no dancing, no alcohol. And the most frequent thing brought up is because their pastors don't write their sermons, which is an example of actually possessing the Holy Spirit.

So because their pastors don't write their sermons, they're speaking from the Holy Spirit. Are they saying they're prophets and apostles? Sounds like it to me. But my word is the word of God. And if you disagree with it, then it's the same as disagreeing with God.

Yeah, that's what that sounds like. It's what it sounds like they're setting up there. So Johnny goes on. What should we do with something like this in terms of labeling? Question one B. And what makes a false gathering merely a church in error, heretical or a cult?

For example, we never or at least I have never heard anyone call the Catholic Church a cult. So what would we classify it as? You can use a KGV only ism and maybe a seven day Adventism as an example as well.

Thank you for your time. I've been itching to ask you this for some time now. Also, thank you for the work and ministry that you do and even your showing of your lovely marriage on the Friday podcast, which I find to be encouraging as well.

Oh, okay. So I think the best way to go about this here is to be reminded of what the essential doctrines of the Christian faith are. Yes, I have brought up CARM, the Christian apologetic research ministry that's headed up by Matt Slick.

When we were at G3. Yeah, we were just a couple booths away. That's right. Yeah, our booth was right next to striving for eternity, Andrew Rappaport. And then on the other side of him was CARM. So it was cool to talk with those guys.

I think one of them came from Idaho, which is where Matt Slick is at. And then I can't remember where the other guy came from. I don't think they both came from the same place. But anyway, so it was neat to have them at G3.

So I'm going to use CARM to look at some social aspects of cult-like behavior. But before we get to that, let's be reminded once again what the essential doctrines of the Christian faith are. Yes. So when it comes to a doctrinally sound church, what are the doctrines that that church is going to believe?

Now, of course, okay, maybe I shouldn't say a doctrinally sound church. We're just going to talk about the basic doctrines that should make up a Christ following church. Right. Because there are churches that we differ on some secondary issues with, but we still partner in ministry with because we agree on the same mains.

Right. Now, when it comes to summarizing what those essential doctrines are, I tend to use this acronym, doctrines. So I take that word, well, not as an acronym, but as an acrostic. So every one of those letters represents an essential doctrine that a church must believe.

The letter D stands for deity of Christ. So you have to believe in Jesus Christ and that he is God, that he claimed to be God, that he is the son of God. As we talked about this past week, going through the book of John, when Jesus referred to himself as the son of God, this was not like we might say we are sons of God because we're adopted into the family for Jesus to say this of himself and to call God his father was to make himself equal with God.

That's the way the Jews perceived it. And that's what they wanted to kill him for. They believed that he was blaspheming when he called himself the son of God. Right. So we understand that Christ is God.

He is one with the father, but submissive to the will of the father. He is God in human flesh who came and dwelt among us. And actually, incarnation is one of those essential doctrines. So I'm going to get to that here in a moment.

But basically, deity of Christ. We understand that Christ is God. This past week, I was listening to R .C. Sproul. And one of the things that Sproul said is that when Jesus referred to himself as son of man, which is the most common title that he used for himself.

Right. He wasn't merely making a reference to his incarnation and saying that he was associating or relating to man, God in human flesh. That wasn't merely the reason why he used that title. Okay. It was mainly because he was showing that he was the fulfillment of the Daniel prophecy of having seen one who had come from heaven, who was the son of man.

And so Jesus using that title, that also was a claim of divinity. It wasn't some secret code. When somebody asked him, who are you? Where are you from? He would say, I am the son of man. So he's saying he is the fulfillment of that Daniel prophecy.

Gotcha. So this is understanding the deity of Christ. He is God. And he sits on high as God seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Right. Interceding for us as our advocate before the father deity of Christ.

That's the letter D. So the next one in that acrostic doctrines would be the letter O, which stands for original sin. It is necessary for us to believe that we have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Romans 3 23. All have sinned. Everybody. There is no exception to that. Little babies. They haven't sinned yet. Nope. They're sinners too. They are born with a sin nature that we have all inherited from Adam.

And this doesn't mean we're being blamed because of the sins of Adam. It means we're all participants in the sin of Adam. We're all willing participants in his sin and rebellion against God. And so having been born in the sinfulness of Adam, we need to be born again in Christ Jesus.

If we don't understand that we have sinned and what the wages of sin are, which is death, Romans 6 23 and that the wrath of God burns against all the unrighteousness of man. If we don't understand those things, we have no need for a savior.

That's right. What's the point of calling upon Christ as savior? If you don't think you need to be saved from anything. Right? Because I'm good person. I'm a good person. Yeah. No. Why wouldn't God like that?

Good. Yeah. And that was what you shared in your testimony two weeks ago. Yep. Yep. I like me. I'm yep. Everybody likes me. Yep. Why wouldn't God like me? That's right. I was so fooled. So, so full of yourself.

So fooled. So, and I'm saying you were so fooled and so full of yourself. Sorry, I was trying to be cute.

Yeah. It didn't work. I'm just, I'm not there.

I'll leave cute to you and I'll, I'll be the, I'll be the goofball. You can be cute too if you want. I don't know how I can go through this seriously anymore. Sorry. I've lost, I've lost the serious tone.

Okay.

So we have doctrines. So we have the D and now we have the O and then we have the. She's taking over now. C. Go ahead. No, go for it. So the C stands for. D is deity of Christ.

O is original sin. C stands for canon. Now that one's complicated. I think of all the letters. And again, I just summarize this in these letters so that it's easier for you to understand. And remember.

And remember. Yes. C is the one that is the most ambiguous, but canon is basically just another word for Bible. So it's understanding that the Bible is made up of 66 books. We have the old Testament and the new Testament and that these books are the word of God.

Right. It was God having spoken through his prophets in the old Testament and through his apostles in the new Testament, even the words that we have written in red. If you have a red letter Bible, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, primarily the gospels.

There are red letters and other parts of the new Testament, but that's where you get the bulk of the red letters. Even that was written by the apostles. Right. There's so much credit that some people will try to give to the red letters in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, as though those letters are superior to every other word in the Bible.

They're the same as every other word in the Bible. All of it is the word of God. Right. Second Timothy 3, 16, all scripture is breathed out by God. Right. And so the apostles wrote down what we have in the gospels and then also the epistles, the book of Revelation, et cetera.

So these are the books that make up the Bible, which we know to be the word of God. And it is our guide in all matters of faith and obedience, understanding the mind of God, understanding what he desires of us, what we need to do to please God, understanding what the gospel is, who Christ is, what he has done for us, everything that led up to the coming of Christ, who is the fulfillment of all the law and the prophets, what he is instructing his disciples to do in this world, the call to go out and preach the gospel and to teach all that Christ had commanded.

Right. And of course, his hope and his promise of returning again and that he is with us always, even to the very end of the age. All of these things we get from the Bible and you can't get that from anywhere else.

Right. Much to Andy Stanley's chagrin. Yeah. Moving on. So what have we covered so far? Doc. Yes. Deity of Christ, original sin, canon, which is understanding that the Bible is the word of God, that is an essential doctrine.

And then the next one is the letter T, which stands for Trinity. It is knowing with certainty that our God is triune. He is one God. Monotheism, monotheism is an essential doctrine, and that's all kind of wrapped up in Trinity.

Right. We worship one God, not three gods, one God. That's the what of God. When we talk about God being one God, we're talking about the what of God. When we talk about him being three persons in one God, we're talking about the who of God.

And the who is father, son and Holy Spirit. So we believe in the Holy Trinity that our one God is three distinct persons, father, son and Holy Spirit, all fully divine, co-equal, eternal, but without division of nature, essence or being.

There are many statements of faith that have been written on the doctrine of the Trinity. And we believe in the historic confessions of who God has shown himself to be, revealing himself as father and son and Holy Spirit.

And it's the son of God, Jesus Christ, who has shown us the father. Right. We see the father through Christ. The distinctiveness of the Trinity was really kind of veiled in the Old Testament. And it wasn't revealed to us distinctively until we got to the New Testament, until the son of God came and showed us the father and gave his Holy Spirit.

Right. So all who are in Christ are filled with his spirit and know the father and worship the son as salvation is a Trinitarian work. We are predestined by the father. Our salvation was effected by the work of Christ on the cross and his resurrection from the grave.

And then it is actualized by the Holy Spirit that lives within us. Okay. So that's D-O-C-T. Trinity is the letter T. The letter R in this acrostic doctrines is resurrection. Right. And it is knowing that Jesus Christ rose bodily from the dead.

It wasn't a spiritual resurrection. Spiritual resurrection is of no use to us. Right. Because we live in this body and our body is going to die. So to know that we are going to be raised again, a spiritual resurrection would be of no use to us.

There is no conquering over the wages of sin if Christ only rose spiritually from the dead. Right. And not bodily from the dead. So his physical resurrection is an essential doctrine of the Christian faith.

Yep. Now, last year in the 50th anniversary of the remembrance of the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. And TGC and the ERLC teamed up and they did their Martin Luther King 50 nonsense conference.

One of the criticisms that was regularly made of Martin Luther King Jr. Is that he did not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. And at best, at best, his apologists have to concede that Martin Luther King Jr. At the very least said that believing in the bodily resurrection of Christ wasn't important.

You can believe he was spiritually raised from the dead and that's good enough. And he preached this during an Easter message. Oh, wow. It was an Easter that he preached this. Wow. But the tomb was empty.

The tomb was empty. It was empty. That is the testimony of the gospels. You are going against what God's word testifies about the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Wow. When you deny his bodily resurrection.

So he rose bodily. He was seen by more than 500 people in the 40 days between his resurrection and his ascension into heaven. Right. And he is the first to receive a glorified body. And we all, likewise, will receive glorified bodies on the day of Christ.

So this is an essential doctrine. D-O-C-T-R, the letter I stands for incarnation. So I alluded to this one back when we were talking about deity of Christ. Right. But the incarnation of Christ is understanding, according to what we read in John 1, that the word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Right. Philippians chapter 2. Christ, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men and being found in human form.

He humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. All of this wrapped up in his incarnation. And in fact, 1st John tells us 1st John 4 to buy this. You know, the spirit of God, every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God.

And every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. By the way, I skipped 1st John 2, 22, and we were talking about Trinity.

1st John 2, 22 is who is the liar, but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ. This is the Antichrist. He who denies the father and the son. So you see how essential the doctrine of the Trinity is. Yeah.

Whoever denies the Trinity is an Antichrist. So the oneness Pentecostals, even the Mormons, because they don't believe in one God. They actually believe in multiple gods. That's right. But anyway, those who deny the triune nature of God are Antichrists, the Jehovah's Witnesses.

That would be another group. So where was I? We were talking about the incarnation. But anyway, yeah, the essential understanding that Christ came in the flesh and he was fully man and fully God. That's what that was the other thing I was going to mention.

He was very man and he was very God. Right. Right. At no point did Christ cease to be God. Right. He stepped down from his throne in heaven and put on human flesh and was submissive to the will of the father fully in his human nature.

Right. He was fully a man, but he was fully tempted as a man. That's right. And everything. Yes. And he underwent death. He actually experienced suffering in his body and death in his body. As it says in Hebrews, he became like his brothers in every respect.

Right. And so, therefore, we worship a high priest who sympathizes with us in our weaknesses. Jesus did not transport his spirit somewhere else while he was dying on the cross. So he wouldn't have to experience that.

Right. If he did not experience suffering and death, then he was not obedient to the will of his father. So Jesus underwent all of these things on our behalf. That's right. First Corinthians 521. For our sake, he became sin.

I'm sorry. Second Corinthians 521. For our sake, he became sin who knew no sin that we might become the righteousness of God in him. So Jesus experienced all of this in his flesh. It is an essential doctrine to understand the incarnation of Christ.

And all this also tied up with he was the first to receive a glorified body. And so we, likewise, will receive glorified bodies as he has. That's right. Okay. Next one is, let's see, D-O-C-T-R-I-N.

That's new creation. Yes. So in this acrostic, the letter N stands for new creation. We were once dead in our sins and our trespasses in which we once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience, among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath like the rest of mankind.

That's Ephesians 2 verses 1 through 3. But God, being rich in mercy because of the great love with which he loved us, didn't leave us dead in our sins, but he made us alive together with Christ. By grace, you have been saved and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that we would understand the full measure of the kindness that he has showed us in his son.

Ephesians 2, 8 and 9, by grace, you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing. It is the gift of God, not a result of work so that no man may boast. And then verse 10, for we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared for us beforehand that we should walk in them.

So all of this is referring to our new nature. In our old nature, we were dead in our sins and our trespasses. In our new nature, we are alive together with Christ, and we walk in obedience in the works that God has prepared for us beforehand.

We are in these works being shaped more and more into the image of the son, Romans 8, 29. And as Paul instructs in Ephesians, also in Colossians chapter 3, that you put off the old self and you put on the new, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.

So a person who becomes a Christian will no longer walk in the deadness of their sins, but they are walking in new life, in righteousness, in the pursuit of Christ. That's right. Growing in holiness and desiring God as we continue in this world.

When a person, we talked about this past week when we were in John 10, but when a person makes a profession of faith, but you do not see any change in their lives whatsoever, then it was just a passing opinion.

They had an emotional moment, but it was not a genuine conversion. So it is necessary, it's an essential doctrine to understand the doctrine of new creation. The old is passed away, the new has come. Right.

Galatians 2 .20, I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives within me. And that's the understanding of the doctrine of new creation. D-O-C-T-R-I-N-E, it's like anytime you do the, you're trying to remember something in alphabetical order, you ever have to go through the alphabet in your hand, in your head?

No. Alphabet in your hand. Not really, but. Counting, I see, I count on my hand. A, B, C, D.

Anyway. What were you going to say? No, I was just going to say, I don't have to do the alphabet, but whenever I do words, I have to do the same thing.

Yeah. So, yeah. I've been talking so much that I can't remember what letter I'm on. So I have to go through. You're fine. Yeah. So the letter E stands for eschatology. Right. Or more specifically, end times.

So an understanding of the end times. Now, we are going to differ in opinions on the manner in which Christ is going to return, like the order of events, what's coming first, the millennial kingdom, some of those kinds of things.

That's all secondary doctrine. Right. The essential doctrine that we must believe is that Christ is coming back. Yes. He will return to judge the living and the dead. Yes. That is an essential doctrine because this is what we're looking forward to.

He hasn't already come and died again.

That's right. And the apostle Paul said that those who had preached such a thing, saying that the resurrection of the dead had already come, they were put out of the church. Right. So either claiming that Christ has already come, which is preterism, claiming that all these things that Christ had talked about, Matthew 24 and 25, what we read about in the book of Revelation, the full preterist is a heretic because they're claiming that all of this stuff has already happened.

Right. And that is that Paul put people out of the church for teaching such a thing. Yeah. So Christ has not come back yet. He is still to return. Right. And he says in Matthew 24, as far as lightning is seen from, you know, shines in the east and is seen as far as the west.

So will be the coming of the son of man. So everyone will see the return of Christ. Right. It won't be a secret. It's not going to be a secret. We're not going to be going, hey, what was that? There's not going to be headlines in the newspapers going, Christ came back.

Everybody's going to know. Everybody's going to see it. And when he comes back, that's it. That's the end. Yep. So we are looking forward to that event. Although we might differ on the details. Right.

And how that event is going to come about. So you have dispensationalists. You have historical pre-millennialists. You've got amillennialists. You've got post-millennialists. You've got pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib.

And there's, oh, you got pan-millennialists. Yep. Where it's all going to pan out. It's all going to pan out in the end. We will differ on these things. And it's good to have those discussions. Right.

Come back to the word of God. Challenge one another and our understanding of what the word says.

But also understand that that is secondary. Yeah. Those are secondary issues.

Now, we as a church, I think you fielded a question earlier this week. What does our church teach as far as eschatology is concerned?

Yeah. I was asked what we believe as a church. Yeah. And we just believe that Christ is coming back. That's right.

So, you know, whenever I cover those end times things, I might tell you what my view is. And then I'll give you an overview of what the different views are. Right. But there's not a requirement for people in our church to center on a particular eschatology.

Right. Related to the return of Christ. Only that we all agree.

And we shouldn't hold each other to that either. I think that that is unfair for someone to feel so strongly about theirs. That they're right and everybody else is wrong. And if you don't believe them, then you're a heretic.

Yeah, right.

That's not fair. And that's generally the extreme fundamentalist churches that might fall into that category. Okay. Of requiring people to have a certain eschatology in order to become a member there.

The thing that bugs me about that is it's almost as if they're saying not quite. I mean, you might have to interview them to hear what the specific reasons are for doing this. But it's almost as if they're saying you can't be a member of a church unless you believe this doctrine or this eschatology in this way.

So that's the thing that kind of makes me a little, you know, whenever I hear a church require you to hold this particular viewpoint of eschatology. But only that we all agree Jesus is returning. Yes.

Might disagree on the details, but we all agree that he's coming back. Yes. And then the last letter in this acrostic is the letter S. And that stands for salvation by grace through faith alone. Right.

That is an essential doctrine because that is the gospel. Right. Martin Luther said that the church rises and falls on a doctrine of justification by faith. And this is what's led the Catholic church to become such a wayward church is because they denied the doctrine of justification by faith.

Luther saw that that was the main issue concerning the Roman Catholic church, was that they had abandoned a doctrine of justification by faith. That doctrine is the basis of the entire book of Galatians.

That's the one doctrine that Paul is defending against the Galatians having left the doctrine of justification by faith. And they've added works now into it. Right. And they still probably believed in Christ and the gospel, but they also believe there needed to be more than that.

So, I believe that Jesus died on the cross, but I also have to do this, be circumcised in order to be saved. And that corrupted the gospel. Paul said it's a different gospel. And a person will be condemned if they believe in such a gospel.

And that Christ died for nothing.

Because then you're boasting in yourself like, oh, I got this done. Look what I've done. I've done this part. So, now I'm saved. No, you didn't do anything.

God did. Right. It is all the work of God from beginning to end. That's why it's a gift. It's a free gift. Yes. No strings attached. It's grace, right? So, you believe you were saved by grace, but you had to do something or make a decision in order to do it.

Then it's not grace anymore. It's not grace. You add a work to it, or you add something that you did, and grace is no longer grace.

It was... And praise the Lord for that, because seriously, I would be still...

Right. That's why it's the gospel. That's why it's good news. Right. Because even our best deeds are as filthy rags before a holy God. So, we would never be able to get there anyway. Even as a good person.

Even when you were a good person. I'm a good person. I'm a good person. People like me. That's right. Everybody likes me. It was Augustine who prayed, Lord, command what you will and grant what you command.

And so, the Lord does demand righteousness. But the wonderful thing about that is He also gives us righteousness. Right. He commands righteousness, and He gifts to us what He commands. This is the righteousness that we receive by faith in Jesus Christ.

We are clothed in His righteousness, and we are saved. That is justification by faith, by grace alone, through faith alone. That is the gospel. It is an essential doctrine of the Christian faith. Now, as I was going through this acrostic, some of you might be aware that Hank Hanegraaff was actually the originator of this acrostic.

Right. He's the one that came up with doctrine, and each one of those letters represented an essential doctrine of the Christian faith. But Hank Hanegraaff is Eastern Orthodox. He doesn't believe the letter S, and nor is the letter S on his acrostic.

I added that one. Right. So, doctrines, S, salvation by grace through faith alone. That is an essential doctrine, because it is the doctrine, as Luther said, that the church rises or falls upon. Right.

And Hank Hanegraaff, unfortunately, abandoned that doctrine when he became an Eastern Orthodox. But even in his acrostic, originally, it wasn't included in there. He didn't ever have the letter S. Right.

That was one of the things that troubled me about that acrostic, was like, well, where does salvation by grace through faith come into this? And because even before he became Eastern Orthodox, he didn't believe that.

Right. That was why it was so easy for him to come into the faith that he is in now, abandoning the truth of the gospel, which is unfortunate. Pray for the man. But we can no longer recommend the Bible Answer Man.

Right. Not a trustworthy guide. Coming back to Johnny's question, then he said, what makes a false gathering merely a church in error or a heretical church or a cult? For example, we never at least I have never heard anyone called the Catholic church a cult.

Now, I had a friend of mine who made a very funny joke one time. It was we were all kind of sitting around a table and we were talking about what makes a cult. And we were talking about essential doctrines and things like that in this conversation.

There was a friend of mine who had been quiet for the conversation for the most part, and he was not more mature in his in doctrine. OK. And so he was kind of listening to us. But there was at one point when the question came up, is the Catholic church a cult?

I remember that being the point where he spoke right up and he goes, yeah, it is. And we're all kind of looking at it. We're like, so where do you get an understanding that the Catholic church is a cult?

He goes, the head guy of the church dresses like a wizard, carries a magic staff and sits on a gold throne, you know, and he says all the pomp and circumstance of the Catholic church. I don't know. I don't know that I agree with the Catholic church being a cult.