What More SBC Issues with Justin Peters

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Andrew Rappaport where we provide biblical interpretation and application This is a ministry of striving for eternity and the

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01:19

All right, well welcome to another edition of the rap report I'm your host Andrew rap report here with my trusty sidekick

01:28

Bud the wiser, how you doing, bud? I'm good, sir. How are you good? Hey today?

01:33

We're gonna talk about something that nobody else has been talking about in Christianity, let's talk about what's going on with the

01:39

SPC. We've got a scoop you guys scoot No one else is talking about this. So and then to do that we brought in some big guns, didn't we?

01:47

Oh, yes Yes, we brought we brought the man who who who sits on a throne of pride

01:53

No, literally because the name of his scooter is from a company called pride. So the the one and only

01:59

Justin Peters. How are you, sir? Guilty as charged not only do

02:05

I sit I ride You know, I I don't know how many people have seen you on your scooter riding around and nobody picked up just I remember when

02:15

I picked up on it when we were at a Shepherd's conference and Someone was asking me to take a photo and as I'm sitting there waiting for them.

02:22

I just happened to notice pride right there on the handlebar And you lean forward and I would oh it even says it on the back of the seat

02:32

Yeah, and nowadays, you know that term pride that's but that conjures up a whole other set of you.

02:38

Yeah Hey, you know, this is your month. Yeah No, we're past that month now now you that was last month.

02:46

That was last month. Yeah So now you're safe for a whole nother year, yeah Don't ride around wearing bright colors

02:54

Justin no kidding. Yeah, I'm sending the wrong message a rainbow sticker on the back of my scooter

03:03

You know what if we put a rainbow sticker on the back of his scooter he wouldn't even be able to see it So we could do that bud we could do that so so, you know, we scheduled to talk about the

03:16

SBC and I forget Justin if it was you or bud when we said well, let's Let's we couldn't figure out the timing.

03:23

We'll record a little bit later. And one of you were like, well There's probably more to talk about This stuff keeps breaking like I mean, we're gonna we'll air this in a couple days and yet Maybe by the time we air this everything we say

03:37

I'll be old hat because something new will be happening within the SPC But we've we've talked with bud and I we did a podcast on this

03:45

You just recently Justin had your previous pastor Jim Osmond on on your podcast and on your

03:52

YouTube channel And you did an episode on the SBC bud has been like cranking out article after article

04:00

The one that has gotten the most traction, you know Well, at least before the one that got the most traction was a satire one on from Lifeway selling sermons

04:10

That was pretty funny And the one he just recently wrote is getting a lot of traction

04:16

We we had all of us were on apologetics live and we were doing we're again talking about some of these things

04:22

So we were addressing this again We're gonna take a couple new things that we want to look at and and address some of the things that that's going on But folks this is important and you say well, hey,

04:33

I'm not SPC. Why is this important? This is important because one, you know, the SPC is and maybe you guys know different But it's the only

04:42

Denomination that I know that started to go toward a liberal bent that at least had a conservative resurgence for a period of time

04:51

Though it looks like that resurgence is over and this being right now the most conservative and largest denomination a precedent denomination this is gonna say how a lot of churches are gonna go if The the was there six

05:08

Major seminaries from SPC, right Justin, right? Yeah, six. Oh, okay So if they all go woke and go liberal it tells you where these churches are gonna go.

05:18

There's 44 ,000 churches represented by the SPC So About right or was that before they claim?

05:28

Yeah forty something thousand they claim 16 to 18 million members, but I guarantee you the

05:35

FBI couldn't find about 15 million of those Way inflated numbers

05:46

Massively inflated now, there's nowhere near that many SPC. Well, they count baptisms right or better yet.

05:51

They know not even that they count They they'd make the they'd make the

05:57

DNC blush with shame because they count people that are dead they count People that have been on church membership roles that haven't been to that church in half a century

06:07

I know I mean mom the church that I was reared in First Baptist Church, Vicksburg There was an article a few years ago in the local of Vicksburg, Mississippi paper about First Baptist Church, Vicksburg And the article said that there are 3 ,000 members of First Baptist Church, Vicksburg, Mississippi Well, that's the church.

06:24

I was raised in on a good Sunday on a good Sunday There's 300 people there on a good one and yet it boasts 3 ,000 members

06:33

So and that's typical of the SPC. So that's why I say these numbers are massively

06:39

Inflated. Yeah, but I think the concern we have is that this is this is the influence that a lot of these

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Future pastors future church planters are having and this is going to affect even the churches outside of the

06:54

SPC This is gonna be what people think of with Christianity going forward. And I think that's why this is so important I think that's why it is important for us to to address yet again.

07:04

What's going on and So just let me let me start off with we'll start off with what we discussed

07:11

Apologetics live and then what you and Jim talked on your podcast some of the issues of Concern just in case this is the first episode people are listening to bring people up to speed with what what's the concern?

07:24

That's going on right now with with Ed Litton the president of the SPC. Why is it a concern?

07:30

And then you know, we do want to tap in from there I want to tap into this SBC voices article that that We have and then we'll wrap up with some of the stuff that bud has brought out in his latest article

07:42

So Justin why don't you start us off? sure, so Ed Litton is the newly elected president of the

07:48

SPC and A couple weeks ago someone found a sermon that he preached on Romans 1 and realized

07:56

Wow this sounds a lot like a sermon that JD Greer the former president of the

08:02

SPC preached on Romans 1 he found it and Watched both of them and did a mash -up

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I guess you call it when you take clips of of each sermon you put them together and Ed Litton plagiarized large large portions of JD Greer sermon not only the general outline not only the major points not only the sub points but the phraseology the jokes and in even personal illustrations and So when someone found that then others started looking and sure enough, it's it wasn't just that sermon

08:39

It was sermon after sermon after sermon after sermon after sermon and now I mean I've lost track of how many

08:46

Examples of plagiarism that have have been found by others.

08:51

I found a couple myself and And it's not just that he's

08:57

I mean he's actually taking personal stories that JD Greer said happened to him and Claiming those stories as his own he literally looks his congregation in the eye and Straight -up lies to him telling them this

09:15

Illustration this anecdote that he supposedly experienced himself and he didn't he's stealing it from other people

09:23

Well, wait a minute The I guess the first question is are they actually original with JD Greer because we do know that one of these stories

09:30

He comes from Ted Tripp And that that JD Greer says is his own personal story

09:37

But as you pointed out on a previous episode on I've did a K you pointed out that Yeah, JD Greer doesn't remember where he saw that temple, but you remember where you saw yours, you know

09:50

Ted Tripp remembers where he saw his you know So there's things there that that do indicate that maybe even the personal stories of JD Greer's are not personal

10:00

Stories of JD Greer, but ones he's getting from somebody But let me let me give you the challenge the challenge that Ed Litton is saying is it's he's not lying to his congregation he's not

10:12

Plagiarizing because he had permission Beforehand from JD Greer to use the sermon.

10:19

So is that really plagiarism Justin? Yes It is plagiarism and he is lying.

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Let me let me say that real quick because JD Greer gives you Illustration of being in Drivers Ed and the

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Drivers Ed instructor had this break and all that and Ed Litton takes that Exact same story and claims it as his own.

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So that is straight up flat -out lying now Specifically to your question. Is it plagiarism if is if you have permission from the original source to use his material?

10:49

And then you you present it as long as you have permission some are saying well, then then it's no longer plagiarism

10:54

Well, yes, it is Plagiarism is plagiarism Irrespective or of whether or not you have the permission of the original source, for example

11:06

If I had been I went southward honor ironically the same seminary that Ed Litton went to I went to Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary I was there probably about 10 years after he was so we weren't there at the same time but as a seminary student if I had gone to one of the

11:23

My friends, you know down the hall in the men's dorm, Fort Worth Hall and said, hey, hey

11:28

Lance It's a friend of mine from seminary. Hey Lance I got this paper coming up and I know you've already written a paper on this.

11:35

Hey, I'm really in a bind Can I use your material and he said yeah, okay sure which

11:41

Lance would never done that But if you said yeah, sure you can use my material And so I took his material and basically copied and pasted it maybe changed a phraseology here and there

11:51

But it's basically Lance's paper and I turned it in with my name on it is that plagiarism absolutely it's plagiarism

11:57

It doesn't matter if I had Lance's permission if if I had been discovered doing that I Would have been

12:04

I would have not only been given a zero on my paper. I would have probably been kicked out of Southwestern seminary so yes, it is still plagiarism even if you have the permission of The original source absolutely and just to note and you pointed this out with your video with Jim this kind of behavior since the world is watching the world's one even be that would not even be tolerated in a secular

12:30

University No, so don't lose sight of that fact, right? Yeah, I think it's irony here.

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I did my undergraduate when I left High school and I graduated high school. I went to I went to junior college for a year

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But then I went to Mississippi State University and I got a degree in economics from Mississippi State if I had done 1 % of the amount of plagiarism that just that we know about from Ed Litton forget being kicked out of a

12:58

Theological institution I would have been kicked out of a secular godless Institution Mississippi State University.

13:05

I would have been kicked out. I would have been kicked out of the University I would have been kicked out of seminary

13:12

Well that doing 1 % yet Ed Litton is the president So yes, please

13:18

Let me bring this in because let's talk about how he became president Because this is one of the things

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I kind of think interesting like everyone's kind of forgotten about that now But just before the elections they were doing some things

13:32

That were you know, basically it came down to a runoff between Stone and Litton Muller didn't even make the the cut

13:42

Yeah, I was so I was wrong. I actually thought Muller was gonna be gonna be the president but You know, so they were doing some things before the vote to stone with women crying and telling stories and This is what brought out the world is watching comment

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So could could you go over that because because I think When we say, you know

14:07

Bud said the world is watching When we look at what they did to try to make sure that stone didn't get the votes and now we look at how they're

14:15

Handling this I think we see hypocrisy here Because you especially with what we're gonna say later about how these things came to light

14:25

You know, could could you go over kind of what brought about the you know, what was the shenanigans that were being played?

14:31

Before the election, you know, and I But I know you were watching all this too with you know, hold the woman crying and and all this

14:41

Well, I go ahead Justin. No, no, actually I was gonna say I just I kind of know the basics of that But buds, but would be better to speak to that than I well

14:50

The thing I would just want to add to your focus your emphasis on what the big scandal is right now is with the plagiarism

14:58

My observation if you back up from this is is what we're seeing is

15:03

Sort of a and I don't mean well it is kind of a pun a litany of problems Because it started out with before the convention occurred

15:13

Discovering that Lytton cope reaches with his wife. Yeah, that's right That's kind of a problem and at the moment the convention is ongoing now

15:21

It's subsequent to the first election where it turned out to be a a runoff There was an issue with his doctrinal statement regarding the

15:29

Trinity on his church website and it was heresy It was partialism to be specific in the course of the runoff vote you have that being wiped off the church website because of a messenger came up to the microphone asked a question actually of Al Mohler where Lytton had gotten his doctorate degree

15:50

Asked him over. What are they teaching about the Trinity and because Lytton's website has this heresy on it

15:57

Lytton Mohler deferred to Lytton who did not address it But just sort of in an ex cathedra kind of papal move had it wiped off the website

16:05

So you've got issues with the egalitarianism with his wife preaching. All right Now we've got issues of we're not really that focused on doctrine.

16:14

It's okay. We just had a statement. We put it up there Who cares well, there are people that do care the

16:20

Lord cares the world may be watching and they don't care But the faithful believers do so you got the co -preaching with his wife.

16:28

You've got the heresy statement on The website. Well now this is just a continuing fruit of what

16:35

I would argue is is unfaithfulness to the word You just kind of see this.

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I think it's gonna progress. I want to see repentance I want to see him do the faithful thing repent and bear

16:48

Their fruit consistent with that repentance. I don't know that we'll see that but that's kind of the summary

16:53

I would add to what your observations were. Yeah, so then bring us up speed of how you know with this whole claims that they had with You know mishandling themselves sexually

17:06

With this woman who is crying and all that because I mean there were shenanigans that they were playing

17:11

Covering stuff up and trying to make stone look bad, right? Yeah, and a lot of that ties to these apparently positionally leaked letters that came from Russell Moore And my goodness, that's another that's a two -hour show to kind of yeah exegete all that nonsense but yeah, all of this was being positioned so that Mike Stone was implicated in a in a cover -up of the ongoing sexual abuse scandal and I That doesn't carry weight.

17:42

I mean just on the surface what he did as president He had been president of the Executive Committee.

17:47

They're responding to investigations it had been brought to them and he was overseeing that and the

17:53

EC was responsible for adjudicating that in some way consistent both with scripture and with the the

17:59

SBC's polity and so for folks who may not be completely filled up to speed with You know

18:06

SBC and Paul the politics there so Russell Moore was Part of the an ethics group of the

18:12

SBC and he was president. He steps down just before this

18:18

Convention he steps down and somehow leaks letters and emails implicating stone in having known about For like 20 years.

18:30

I think it was knowing about some sexual You know a cover -up of of a sexual sin

18:38

And you know, they end up having some poor girl up there crying, you know about how this this abuse hurt her

18:45

You know, one of the interesting things stone had said about it was so if this was like 20 years ago Why did

18:50

Russell Moore do nothing these these leaked letters and emails from Russell Moore?

18:57

Seemed to indicate that Russell Moore knew he's claiming he knew about it for like 20 years right, so Stone's argument was well, why didn't he do anything?

19:06

I mean, he's saying that stone knew but stone saying he doesn't but clearly Russell Moore would have

19:12

If he's the head of if he's the president of the Ethics Committee, why did he do nothing? Right, and this is what you end up seeing that they shifted all to stone now

19:21

This is gonna come into play for this reason I think because the whole thing against stone was these leaked letters that were from Russell Moore No one knows how it got into the public how it got to you know media just kind of leaked out there

19:36

Okay, and I think that's gonna be different when we look at the argument that people are making for Ed Linton Here what he did was out in public

19:46

You know, I mean these one of the things we know is these YouTube videos from JD Greer and Ed Linton they were

19:54

Public well up until a few weeks ago, right Justin 140 of them 140 some of them disappeared and some came back

20:05

Yeah So he took down 143 videos, I think Yeah, and so this is public information.

20:13

So this isn't like Something that is private that's being leaked. This is someone who is noticing the videos

20:20

Noticing these same lines In fact, Justin on one of your previous dedicate podcast when you were dealing with this

20:26

You even pointed out where you wanted to go see whether Ed Linton was going to address that in his most recent sermon

20:32

So you listen to his sermon and he made something made some comment about well, you know

20:38

Jesus being a crutch Jesus is my iron lung and you went. Oh, that's kind of strange Where did you find that when you went and searched for that?

20:45

Yeah, so the the plagiarism thing really kind of blew up Saturday a week ago.

20:52

So whatever that date was I can't do it in my head right now. So a week ago this past Saturday and And people were really talking about it well literally the very next day

21:03

Sunday morning Ed Linton got up in his sermon in his sermon and had this line where he said

21:10

He was talking about having conversation with a friend of his and his friend said well Jesus is just a crutch for you.

21:16

And Ed Linton said I told my friend though that Jesus isn't my crutch. He's my iron lung

21:22

And I thought well, that's a pretty catchy thing to say, you know, it's um, that's pretty neat I've never heard that before and so I just given the plagiarism that people were finding

21:32

I just googled it sure enough. It's a line out of a book by a lady named Nancy Hicks That I've never even heard of before but some kind of you know, female

21:43

Christian speaker on Has written a couple books kind of like a

21:48

Beth Moore type best I can tell but so I mean literally the very next day

21:53

After everybody was talking about his plagiarism. He plagiarizes again So he's he's pathological

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He is absolutely pathological He there had been

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I mean there's Dozens and dozens of examples now, but wait, but wait, we can we got we should have to cut him a break because We can't say he's the one the pathological because he explained this.

22:20

He's not the one writing his sermons He's got an eight member team that gets together and they all do a little bit of research and they somehow cobbled together a

22:33

Sermon and that's what he does and he even admits this is how he does each of his sermons

22:38

He doesn't write his sermons by his own admission. He doesn't write. Oh, yeah. I mean that is stunning to me that is

22:46

He is so seared in this. It's so normal for him that he doesn't even have the thought in his head

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You know, I probably shouldn't tell the whole world that I've got a an eight -member team that helps me write my sermons

22:59

It's perfectly normal for him. And so he just does it That is um, as I told you

23:05

I was when y 'all heard me say this before when I sit under a man who's preaching I Want to know that that man has been in the word that he has done the work

23:15

That he has studied to show himself approved that he has wrestled with the text that he's gotten the meaning, right?

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And that that has impacted him the Word of God The word of the Word of Christ dwells richly within him per Colossians 3 that is

23:30

His heart and mind is saturated with the Word of God It's impacted him then and only then do

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I want to hear what that man has to say about the text So now I'm curious with this.

23:41

This is gonna be out of left field a little bit But so when we look at a guy like Ed Litton who is paid to be a pastor of a church

23:49

Who isn't working on his own sermons? He's got eight people writing the sermons They're either they or him are plagiarizing these sermons

23:57

Even after getting caught now making excuses for it Who do you think is more dangerous?

24:04

to the Christian community someone like an Ed Litton or someone like a Benny Hinn who is upfront about what he believes.

24:11

He tells you he believes in word of faith and and little God's doctrine He doesn't hide it. He doesn't try to cover it up Right Ed Litton was on his website having heresy there up until he got caught with it

24:24

And this is a I don't know if you'd be ready to answer this to think through it but Be curious with you your background in studying word of faith

24:31

Who do you think is actually more dangerous to the because I know we've talked about this in the past Justin about you know when you look at the

24:37

Muslims or you look at Word of faith and and you know that word of faith is more dangerous because they're they're preying on Christians But here you got someone that is really within the more conservative

24:49

Christian community Versus someone that is kind of on it, you know seen as not in the

24:55

Christian community by most Christians Which do you see would be more dangerous to the Christian community than an

25:00

Ed Litton or Benny Hinn? well I suppose it would be The parameters that you put on the

25:07

Christian community because of professing Christian community at large globally I would say

25:13

Benny Hinn. I would say Kenneth Copeland Joel Osteen Joyce Meyer and that group Now if you narrow that down to the

25:20

SPC then I would say Ed Litton because Most SPC people are not listening to Benny Hinn a few would be but most are not now that number

25:32

Becomes exponentially greater when you broaden those when you go outside of those

25:37

SPC parameters and you open it up to you know all the charismatic saw that kind of stuff so but specifically

25:43

SPC yeah, I would say Ed Litton and because of the the horrific example that he's giving right now and Aside from that not only the horrific example the horrific theology in these sermons

25:59

I mean people have pointed out if you're gonna if you're gonna plagiarize somebody at least plagiarize somebody that knows what they're talking about Yeah but in this in this sermon he actually said that and this is plagiarized from Tim Keller who's no bastion of Doctrinal soundness, but he said

26:18

He said Homosexuality does not send you to hell. Do you know how I know that because heterosexuality doesn't send you to heaven

26:25

That is one of the most mind -numbingly dumb Theological statements

26:30

I have ever heard outside of word of faith. I mean that is just I mean that is that is

26:37

Theology 101 bad you would have flunked out of theology 101 class in Vacation Bible school you would have flunked out

26:44

Just unbelievably bad and then he to make matters worse. He said the

26:50

Bible does not even have a word for homosexuality I'm like man.

26:57

What are you talking about? The Bible doesn't have a word for it Arsenicoytai there's your word first Corinthians 6 verse 9.

27:07

That's that there's your word It literally means men bedding men. I don't know. What do you think that describes sounds like homosexuality to me?

27:15

I mean and this is a guy who's president of the SBC and Claims in his interview that he does the work in the languages.

27:23

Are you kidding me? Yeah, maybe maybe he never heard of the words. Maybe he never heard of the word

27:29

Sodomite or read about, you know, Sodom We're gonna say but oh, well, I was gonna say but this is the problem the theology that they have is not biblical

27:37

It's cultural. Yeah, and so as those winds change, we've we've got a Well, we got to keep the people in the pews happy to hear something.

27:46

That's nuanced But also we're concerned about the world watching and what the culture is doing.

27:51

It's crazy I mean the problem that just I just can't get past is those people sitting in that pew under Ed Linton They have no idea the best they know is not who produced the sermon.

28:02

They're hearing just who's performing it Unbelievable, it's just that's right and bud to that point.

28:11

I would also say Okay, if if if my pastor or your pastor

28:18

Andrew if you had gotten up folks that are coming to your fellowship that any of us who go to a doctrinally sound church

28:27

If our pastor had gotten up and said what JD Greer said and Ed Linton plagiarized JD Greer essaying and made it his own, but if they had said anything like that Every member in our churches would have been lined up outside the pastor's door.

28:42

No, they wouldn't I'll tell you what would happen Justin if I was preaching at something like that and you were there I'll tell you exactly what would happen if I was up at a pulpit

28:50

I'm preached that you'd ride right up in your scooter while I'm still preaching and you'd stick your finger in my face and say

28:57

Yeah, that's wrong Yeah, you wouldn't even wait till I got to my door

29:04

Yeah, that's basic stuff. I mean the vast majority of everybody in the churches that we attend

29:11

Would have recognized that as heresy in the fact that JD Greer preached this sermon in January of 2019 and he did get flack for it at that time.

29:21

So took some flack for it rightly So yeah at that time from some others apparently nobody in his church

29:27

But then then Ed Litton a year later plagiarized the same sermon

29:34

Having known that there was some flack on it, right? I mean like oh my goodness So so instead of correcting

29:40

JD Greer, he goes that's brilliant. Can I steal it? I mean I you borrow it You know, it's just unbelievable

29:47

So bud, let me ask you you brought this up earlier Does it do do you really believe that the SPC really cares that the world is watching?

29:55

I mean in Justin's in what Justin had done on his video and what one of the articles you did Newsweek is

30:01

Newsweek. That's pointing pointing out that he's not only plagiarizing but getting rid of videos and things like that Do you think the

30:08

SPC really cares that the world is watching or do you believe more that that's just a line? They used to try to silence stone so that they can get who they wanted elected

30:17

No, I think in the context of that specific convention that occurred on two days I think that line was used as a political ploy and sort of a cliche to Minimize any dissent against any of the resolutions that they were going to be facing that were being brought to the floor minimize any dissent

30:37

Emphasize we're all in this together kind of thing and unity unity unity Without regard for doctrine without regard for truth and and the world is watching means

30:47

Oh, we've got to do something that is going to be favorable in the eyes of the world Oh, well, good job.

30:52

Look what you've just produced I mean you've produced a guy who preaches with his wife who has heresy on his website and now is stealing his sermons

30:59

Well, the world is watching, but I don't know, you know, if if repentance is going to be forthcoming

31:06

I think you've seen Litton's church sort of close ranks around him to protect him from further scrutiny

31:13

And I think that you've seen the SPC elite not not wholesale

31:18

But a number of well -positioned SPC years come out in support of him. I mean

31:23

Danny Aiken, you know He's essentially redefining what? Integrity and transparency and humility means it's what

31:31

Linton has just done in light of this scandal. No, that's not right Yeah and I want to get to that just right after we explain to Justin how he can get a better night's sleep because he looks

31:42

Like he needs a better night's sleep. Look at him. He looks like he hasn't gotten enough sleep, right bud I think what the reason he hasn't gotten a good enough sleep is he needs a my pillow mattress topper

31:52

That's what I think he needs right Justin you'd love it because it's made right here in the

31:58

United States. You like that America Yeah, I mean so we're there a sponsor here at with the rap report and with apologetics live

32:09

And so not only could you get yourself a good night of sleep. You'd be supporting this program as well

32:14

But I will admit I I've I was willing to to Have them as a sponsor because I absolutely love their products.

32:22

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32:27

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32:33

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32:47

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32:53

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33:02

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33:33

Justin looking like he had a good night of sleep, you know He looks a little groggy there.

33:38

I don't know He was too much celebrating for 4th of July, you know

33:44

He lives up there in the land of the free where they practice were allowed to do fireworks and things like that You know,

33:49

I don't know about that. It was like the Western Front at my house last night. It was crazy Yeah dogs, it was good because the dogs were all scared and they were under the bed

33:57

So they left me alone, but never well, you know, I will admit that moving from New Jersey to Pennsylvania You know,

34:04

New Jersey fireworks are not allowed I moved out here and man everyone and their brother was setting off fireworks

34:09

I I didn't get to see any of them, but I heard him from every direction You see

34:15

Justin wasn't have that up in Montana because it's like isn't what's your nearest neighbor like 10 miles away, you know

34:22

My nearest neighbor is less than 10 feet away. Oh Well, then be careful with those fireworks you're setting off So so by the there was an article you sent to us to just and I From SPC voices.

34:40

How should add Litton's? borrowing sermons situation be handled now

34:45

Justin just with that title It kind of gives away the position that that the the author here

34:52

Adam Blosser has I think we've already made this clear, but we just want to emphasize this.

34:58

Do you think this was borrowing a sermon? No No Stealing a sermon.

35:04

I mean, I mean he in people say well he had permission but again, you're you're getting up in front of your people and you're preaching that material as though it was your

35:15

Own and it's not It's not in fact when you look at these mashup videos.

35:20

It's almost cringeworthy Embarrassing how bad Ed Litton's delivery is it's so Artificial and wooden now, you know why it is because he's just he's just reading a script.

35:33

That's all he's doing I mean you can you get a Trained monkey to get up and do that.

35:39

I mean hire some You know, I can get up and I could read. I don't know.

35:45

I could read a book on a brain surgery and I could probably read it really well and it might look like I know what

35:52

I'm Talking about I have no idea what I'm talking about. I mean anybody can get up and read something

35:58

It is just it's so fake both both Greer and Litton are reading it I pointed that out on the podcast we did a couple weeks ago on this

36:06

They're both reading it which tells me I think both of them are borrowing it from someone else stealing it from someone else

36:12

Paying for it. I'll say Greer's doing that I know he's doing it some and how much I don't know

36:17

We don't know but but the thing is at least what you're pointing out at least when

36:22

Greer does it He's got his note notebook in his hand. He's reading it but he at least seems to read ahead and then you know kind of be a little bit more dramatic in his explanation where it just kind of is looking down reading it and Talking about it and it's like when you compare the two you really see that not only not only is it a bad sermon

36:41

Not only is it not an original sermon, but Ed Litton can't even do a good delivery Or at least J .D.

36:46

Greer can do that Yeah, let me let me just insert this this was too hilarious. You guys will know

36:52

Don Green from his association with John MacArthur, but Don Green early this morning posted this and Here's the quote it says

37:02

I have a small favor to ask from the seminaries of the Southern Baptist Convention if they continue to support

37:08

Ed Litton in his plagiarism scandal, and here's what green asks He said could you at least change the name of your institution from?

37:17

theological seminary to school of the performing arts So this article goes, you know, they read a little some historically the

37:38

Adam puts it this way Adam Blosser says I don't like the way the concerns first came to light

37:44

None of us should be prowling the Internet seeking someone to devour. I've been guilty of doing that before It wasn't right.

37:52

It isn't right now. We've already have an adversary who seeks to steal

37:59

Steal that's first three mentions to steal kill and destroy When Christians seek to devour one another they imagine that they are they?

38:10

image the devil not Jesus But legitimate concern shouldn't be ignored just because they came to light by illegitimate means

38:19

I want to address that part of it Actually, I should read the rest that paragraph because he says that's the same argument

38:27

I made to friends regarding the Russell Moore letters You don't have to like the leaked letters to read the letters and be concerned in the same way

38:37

You can be concerned about a pastor misusing someone else's sermon material without affirming that the person who set it out to destroy him now

38:45

Here's the thing that I find interesting the Russell Moore letters that he references were designed to attack and devour a

38:54

Person right a couple of people. Yeah, right that that was there was a political Maneuvering behind that that wasn't to call people to repentance.

39:03

That was Purposeful and it was underhanded. That's not you know, when you have here someone that notices

39:10

Hey, here's a two guys preaching the same sermon and they both were and are the

39:16

SBC presidents Um, hey, is this a concern here and people are saying and but you just said this earlier in this show

39:23

You want you want repentance and and you said this before we aired but repentance for Ed Layton would look like Resignation as well.

39:32

Yeah be but the thing is the the assumption here is what you know that this somehow came to light in Illegitimate means but you know what?

39:40

I don't see in here. What's the illegitimate means? I mean the illegitimate means with Russell Moore's letters. Well, yes, we could say that's illegitimate private communications or communications that were in that may never actually been

39:52

Communicated to people that were somehow written and said that they were communicated but there's no

39:58

Trace of it and then it leaks to The public that's different than something that's in the public these videos these sermons were public information

40:07

The fact that there's not just one but as Justin said several sermons where you can see this we're even

40:15

Illustrations personal illustrations are being retold. That's public information.

40:20

I don't see what's illegitimate about this that they could say that he doesn't like the Concern the way it came to light because the interesting thing is they supported the

40:30

Russell Moore letters Oh, well, we don't like how it came to light, but it's the content however here he's

40:37

Focusing not on the content But oh, well, it's the way it came to it came about it legitimately.

40:43

Yeah I don't think there was any point for him to make those the to make that an issue

40:49

Illegitimate means it has come to light. I'd be very cautious about critiquing the

40:54

Lord's providence the content in this revelation of This behavior is just as valid to look at maybe as Russell Moore's is

41:04

I don't have a problem with either one what I have a problem with is Not recognizing that truth never fears the darkness

41:12

Truth never fears the light and integrity never fear scrutiny. So the scrutiny that's going on here

41:19

It's not only in light of the of the plagiarism. It's also in light of you know

41:24

The egalitarianism and the heresy on a website. It's in light of all these things it bears scrutiny

41:30

Now if there's an integrity there, then why would you worry? The scrutiny is not a fearful thing when you're the president

41:39

President of the the SPC and you're you're representing pastors across the land integrity matters when you're when you're up there saying the world

41:46

Watching then integrity matters, you know Yeah, I mean it's it's it's back to what we said, but on our show

41:53

You know the the problem right now at the SPC is if they don't have a thing of integrity matters They don't have a thing of truth matters.

42:00

They don't have a thing of of theology matters They're they're they're you know tagline right now is you know, the narrative matters and I mean here in this article from Boyster He's saying

42:12

I want to be clear pastors should prepare their own sermons But as Justin said Lytton doesn't do that by his own admission his own admission

42:19

He doesn't do that and I might point out not that this is the primary issue here. But but his article when he talked about He quoted

42:27

John 1010 and ascribed that to Satan, you know that we have an enemy as Satan comes to destroy, you know

42:35

That's in context. That's that is not talking about Satan. It's talking about false teachers and hirelings, but right whatever anyway,

42:42

I digress but Never let the Bible get in the way of theology

42:48

Well, maybe I'll go ahead bud. No, I was gonna say I'm thankful that what what? Blosser has written here

42:55

You know not in a vigorous way, but he he admits that Pastors should be pairing their own sermons.

43:02

So he acknowledges that now he calls what Lytton did borrowing not Plagiarizing so we're softening sin there.

43:09

I mean it's sin Yeah question and yet he says it's the adversary who seeks to steal not at Lytton Yeah You know, but but you know, let

43:20

I mean maybe maybe you know Justin what these guys need is is they need to get a good logos Bible software?

43:26

That's that's what they need They need they need to start studying the Bible instead of the culture and and they do better And so maybe what we'll do is hey

43:34

Ed Lytton if you're listening instead of getting other guys to write your sermons Go to to BIT dot

43:40

LY slash SFE logos and upgrade your logos or get a logos and get fry -free books from striving fraternity along with the discounts that you can get there and You'd help us as we're trying to help you

43:52

Ed Lytton to Improve your your Bible knowledge And can

43:58

I throw something else in here, too? Not to pile on but but actually this is a

44:04

Something we need to discuss in a way in a way I feel a little bad

44:09

Badly to be grammatically correct for Ed Lytton because He's the one that's taking all of the the heat and the scrutiny right now

44:18

But here's the thing plagiarism is a cottage industry in the Southern Baptist Convention Yeah, it is it is

44:27

Rampant not only is it rampant it is not only is it overlooked. It's Promoted in the

44:34

SPC go to Rick Warren's website right now What is it like pastors calm?

44:41

He has all of his sermons available Complete with outline PowerPoint slides full manuscript

44:48

That you can get he encourages pastors to preach his stuff and you can get them for I don't know

44:56

Five ten whatever dollars per sermon download same thing with Ed Young jr

45:02

Go to his website right now same thing there same thing with James Merritt former president of SPC Same thing that here you have some of the largest churches in the

45:12

SPC and they are openly promoting this They're making thousands upon thousands of pastors

45:21

SPC and otherwise are going to these websites that paying for these sermons

45:26

Downloading of printing out the the outline and the manuscript and getting up on Sunday morning and doing exactly what

45:32

Ed Linton does So in a way, I kind of feel badly for Ed Linton because he's taking all the heat The fact of the matter is this is the worst -kept secret in the

45:40

SPC Yeah, and this is this unfortunately is very common and you know, but and I addressed that as well on the previous podcast

45:48

We dealt with the SPC And so, you know what, you know in the little bit of time we have left

45:53

What I'd like to do Justin is I want to talk about this article that bud has written bud hat has an interesting take

46:01

And I think that this is son is very interesting For folks who who don't who you know haven't gone out and read it yet.

46:10

It's it's called the SPC's wrong brand of Blackman and I will have that linked in the show notes as well

46:18

But the reason this is so interesting is the fact that let's set up the scenario

46:23

Now we were talking about this before we started recording and Justin. I you're I know you used to be in SPC I never have been but you know, we're saying is there is there a way to get rid of a president?

46:35

I don't know that and I don't think any of us here did No way to get rid of other than maybe a math 318 scenario but there is a scenario of who takes over like if Ed Linton was to step down who would take over and You you were looking at the bylaws on this so if Ed Linton steps down who takes over well

46:54

They elect a first and second vice president. So if the president Has to go away or resigns the first vice president moves up to the presidency

47:03

The second vice president moves up don't know if they replace those two until the next convention

47:09

But anyway, there's a succession in there for that. So if Ed was to step down right now

47:15

Who would be the one to take his place a gentleman named dr. Lee brand

47:20

Who was a dean and vice president of mid America? Theological seminary

47:26

Baptist Theological Seminary in Memphis and a former pastor. I think he's a pastor for 18 years, but Lee brand

47:32

So Lee was elected first vice president. Okay. So now let's let's just follow some some trends that you have in your your article

47:40

There there are some on in the SBC those that would be in that what we'd call woke. They're really asleep

47:47

They haven't woken up to the truths of the Bible yet, but they would argue and you even have a video of One said individual that it, you know says that we should if we're gonna be properly woke

48:01

We should be looking to have People of color taking over positions

48:09

That would be You know, we're black should get that position. Let's play that that clip real quick Let me just play that now and this is

48:19

Danny Aiken president of southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. Yeah, so here it is white

48:24

Christians Need to learn above all things. I think to be good listeners

48:30

Over the last several years as I've tried to help build a culture for racial reconciliation and kingdom diversity

48:37

Which is a core value of southeastern seminary I've come to understand more and more that my perspective is not the perspective of My african -american brothers and sisters or my hispanic brothers and sisters my asian brothers and sisters

48:53

They really do see life differently. They're operating out of a different paradigm a different context

49:02

That's very different than mine and I didn't really realize that until I stopped talking

49:08

And began to listen there. I think one of the things that white evangelicals in particular have got to do is become better listeners

49:15

In addition to that we've got to be willing to surrender power Which is again not

49:22

Indigenous to our nature as I often say not only do we need to invite ethnic minorities?

49:29

Into our room and to have a seat at the table We even need to be willing to surrender leadership at the table if we're really going to make progress and really help

49:41

Our brothers and sisters understand we see them on an equal playing with ourselves Okay, so according to that he we would we would rightfully say that You know, hey here you have is as I think you've put in your article kill two birds with one stone, right?

49:57

it's like You know, they could appeal to the conservatives saying look we're going to take plagiarism serious and ed linton should step down And they could appeal to the woke and say hey, look we're putting a black man into the position as president

50:10

Now, I don't know if they've ever had a black Sbc president before yeah, they have okay so but but according to danny akin, this would be shown he should be praising because this would be

50:20

Stepping down and giving that position to a black man. What why are they not doing that?

50:26

Why do you think bud? Well, uh this particular black man Is not woke

50:32

Oh, this guy is anti -crt So he does not fit the narrative so he's not really black

50:39

Well, he must be a white supremacist Yeah, um, that's how they define white supremacy right if you're not woke yeah, yeah, um, so yeah

50:49

And that's what I kind of postulated in this article is look you've got an opportunity To uh be biblically obedient you've got a an admitted morally compromised man in ed linton who is admitted to plagiarism and lying and Fabric, there's just a multitude of resources out there about what this guy's done, but he's morally compromised

51:08

Okay, we've got to get rid of him We can do the biblically obedient thing and discipline him and whatever mechanism the spc could do it um and in his place

51:17

Bring oh, wow a black man. It's like a perfect storm. It's like god could have arranged this or something and Yet they won't do either one of those things

51:27

Because slack man in question who would be in succession Is not woke. He's he's not playing the game that they're playing with the racism card in fact what i've been seeing from some of those that are supporting linton through this is they're they're arguing that the

51:43

The only reason that conservatives are really going after linton is because they're trying to get a more conservative guy

51:50

To take linton's place. They're trying to get rid of linton to get the conservative guy in there And and that kind of you know, i've always said this you know

51:59

People will tell you how they think and these supporters of linton are telling you exactly how they think it's it's exactly what they did

52:05

With these russell moore letters that were leaked. It was it was a gamesmanship to try to to get stone out

52:11

That's the game they play and that's why they think everyone else is going to play the same game. They play right? Yeah, and this guy was endorsed by the conservative baptist network

52:19

So that's another strike against him his anti -crt and he was on the conservative side

52:26

That network endorsed him. Yeah, and so You know, this is where I do think you know

52:32

It it shows that the woke aren't really woke woke is not about the color of the skin

52:37

Or what they claim they're about they're about the political agenda And so, you know justin you and jim osmond on your show

52:46

And and on when we were on apologetics live uh had some strong views about churches in the sbc and this is the thing that I see is that it really

52:56

It it almost doesn't matter who is the president Because it just seems like there's there's so much rot in the sbc throughout that You know the the you know

53:08

Kofi had said this on apologetics live that we had done with him and he asked this question. I think it's an excellent question

53:14

What are you going to spend your time on? I mean if you if you listen to the last episode of the rap report I hope you did.

53:20

I hope you shared that with a lot of people because that was scary I know it was long two hours But you have to know that this government that we now have is targeting us as christians

53:31

And I just i'd have to say to pastors out there Where are you going to spend your time? Are you going to spend your time fighting for the people in your congregation that they're well equipped

53:41

Prepared for the persecution to come that they're out there evangelizing the lost in this in this world where everybody is in a fear they're either in in great fear of a virus that won't kill them or they're in great fear of Socialism taking over and we're the only ones with an answer.

53:57

The bible has an answer to this So so this is a time to be evangelizing or are we going to spend the time trying to save?

54:03

A losing battle. Are we going to try to save the the the sbc and spend how much time how much energy?

54:11

to try to to turn that ship now now justin you and and jim had a

54:16

You know an excellent idea for a strategy of making a statement, uh for churches if they're gonna

54:22

You know to leave the sbc In such a way to make a clear statement rather than just leaving one by one.

54:30

Could you you go over there? and uh I'm, sorry. Did I interrupt you but no go for it. I want you to go over that.

54:35

Okay, so, uh yeah, jim and I jim osmond and I were talking and and he said what needs to happen is not just a slow, uh church by church here and there trickle out of the sbc

54:47

And by the way that that is already happening I just preached a couple weeks ago at a church that is leaving the sbc

54:55

After this past convention they're discussing that was before all the plagiarism came out. But anyway Uh, he said all the churches that have had enough

55:03

And it is a matter of conscience that they have now realized the time has come to get out of the sbc they need to To somehow get together and write a formal declaration of independence if you will and choose a date jim said choose the date that the sbc came into in existence, which

55:25

I think was uh, may the 12th 1845 And uh, so pick that date for next year and say this is going to be our exit.

55:35

This is going to be the Brexit if you will the baptist exit the brexit

55:42

Or begs it or what? However, you want to Suspensive Uh, and and just So I have this this well -crafted

55:56

Document manifesto And all at once on that date next year all at once all these churches

56:03

Maybe hundreds if not thousands of them leave And that would make a huge huge statement

56:11

Yeah, I I think that that would that would be a thing especially if they're saying on this date that way Hey, like we realize we're gonna lose a lot of the southern baptists in in the churches and all that money

56:22

And you know the reality I don't think they would care I think the the sbc elite would say

56:28

Good riddance now. We have control now. We don't have to deal with it. Yeah I I think you're

56:34

You're rank and file sbc person sitting in the pew. They're they're not woke.

56:39

I don't think most of them are but the Certainly the powers that be are the leadership is all the seminaries are um

56:48

Yeah, and it's I think it's not I think what we're seeing honestly and I say this as someone who used to be sbc

56:55

Please understand i'm not now, but I used to be Um, I think it is painfully obvious that the sbc is not headed for the judgment of god

57:04

It is already underneath the judgment of god god is judging the sbc

57:12

The ship is going down and god is the one who's sinking it I really believe that and I take no joy in that i'm not gloating here

57:21

I don't have a dog in the fight. You know, i'm not sbc. I'm not going to the conventions but I I mean just in looking at it when what you see going on with the the the

57:31

Top of the top echelon in the sbc engaging in plagiarism espousing horrific theology that for a first year

57:39

Bible college student would be able to rip apart in a in his sleep uh

57:45

You you're seeing Uh female preachers and all of this stuff and softening on homosexuality

57:53

It's under the judgment of god and god is sinking the ship. So why? I know there's good guys in the sbc

57:59

There are there's good churches in the sbc some good pastors and some of them are my personal friends

58:04

But why hold on to a ship that god himself is sinking? Don't don't be drugged down with it.

58:12

Let it go that's That's where I am on it Yeah, and I mean, I understand the argument some have for trying to trying to right the ship

58:20

But I would rather see everyone just say hey, let's let's pull all these guys out of these seminaries and and put them into conservative ones and Just why why bother with the battle just start training them, right?

58:32

I mean the the reality is I think I think that this ship sunk under the the leadership of You know the mullers

58:40

Endeavors and these guys who just they wouldn't stand up to their own sbc people. That's the reality they they

58:47

I think that's where you know, they stood up to them when they wanted to get control But once they had the control they went with the 11th commandment thou shalt not speak against an sbc

58:56

Uh, you know and in fact the matter is let's face reality denominations are purely a man -made construct.

59:03

Amen There's nothing in the bible about denominations that is purely a man -made construct god does not need

59:11

The svc or any other denomination for that matter To build his church. This is this denominations are foreign to scripture.

59:19

They're completely man -made and as such Given enough time they all go this direction every single one of them

59:27

You know, I remember talking to my seminary professor once and uh about this subject because you know, we are always independent

59:33

And I asked him, you know, it seems like denominations always go that way Very interesting take he had

59:39

It was in light of also discussing, you know, there's some excellent commentaries that I have on my shelf

59:45

Written by liberals people that aren't saved. They do excellent work with original language and textual work

59:52

And we're discussing this and his answer was that pastors Real genuine pastors have a heart for people.

59:59

They want a shepherd They want a disciple and so their their whole mindset is to study the word of god

01:00:05

To teach the word of god to disciple the the people of god. That's their focus But see the guys that get into ministry as a career.

01:00:14

They they really don't care about the people so they'll get into studying languages or getting into denominations where they can

01:00:22

Rise up the political ranks and make some big bunny And and so he was saying that the reason this always keeps happening is the guys that really don't care about the truth

01:00:32

Are the ones that get into the denominations a lot of times because they're more in it for the politics of it

01:00:38

Rather than the truth of it where the pastor the local church pastor Is concerned about the truth of and the people learning the truth

01:00:46

And so I think that's a lot of that is why that plays into it so You know, it's it's you're right denominations are not biblical uh, you know, there there is we will have some some announcements of something that uh coming up that uh,

01:01:02

Won't be a denomination but but gives them the benefits. There are benefits of of being in a denomination. I see that even as an independent

01:01:09

Uh, you know person that's not non -denominational Uh, I don't you know, there are benefits of a denomination in the sense that hey if you're you have a pastor

01:01:18

That's you there's some means of going over his head if you if you need to to bring it other people in to resolve issues uh legally

01:01:26

I could see the issue that there's benefit if you know, the government is you know starts making laws against You know, well the denominations pull together resources to kind of fight that stuff.

01:01:37

Okay, I can see all that But it shouldn't interfere with the fact that you got to give money to support things that go against what scripture says

01:01:47

Which is really what's happening with the sbc as they're going woke. They're starting to promote things that are against the bible

01:01:53

And and you got to support that with your money and I know that there's those that are saying well We can support the missionaries and then still fight and we're not supporting the the general cause

01:02:03

Yeah, that could be but you know overall you're still giving that support. Uh, so I like the idea that you guys have come up with Uh give a certain day and everyone just signed on to say we're all leaving on this day um

01:02:15

And that's going to be that's that was from the that was from the mind of jim. Osmond. I can't take credit for that So but uh, you don't want to plagiarize that idea.

01:02:23

Yeah, nope All right, well just backfire rather quickly wouldn't

01:02:34

Justin it's always great having you on a lot of wisdom you have Anything you got coming up?

01:02:40

Anytime recently, I know for folks that want to they should be downloading and uh following your Diddy k podcast just on any podcast app search for justin peters in case you don't know how to spell diddy k

01:02:52

I mean Bud, you know, this guy is so creative with the name of his ministry

01:02:58

You know rattles ideas for a name of ministry. Let's call it justin peters ministries

01:03:03

Yeah, so he comes up with and I said look you can't call this the justin peters podcast. You got to come up with a name

01:03:09

Okay You know 18 And gotten some creative idea, but no, yeah

01:03:17

It works. But so what does he do? He says? Oh, let me come up with something. That's greek like how many people you know Spell greek, you know, okay, but did a case the name of his podcast now, at least you won't forget it

01:03:28

But uh, you could always search for justin peters. It's the diddy k podcast Uh comes you're coming out almost weekly with with stuff.

01:03:34

It's not twice. I'm going up here and just uh Possibly today, but maybe tomorrow. Yeah. So what else is what else you got coming up?

01:03:42

Um, i'm headed to uh, lakewood bible chapel, which is kind of like a suburb of uh, denver Uh, not this sunday or not this weekend rather but next weekend friday through sunday

01:03:53

July, whatever that is the uh, what's that going to be? I don't know i'm not good at math But uh, so not this weekend, but next weekend and um, yeah several several things coming up my preaching schedules on my website.

01:04:05

I'm uh, gonna have a revised edition Second edition I should say of my book do not hinder them coming out.

01:04:14

Uh soon lord willing I should have an updated version of my clouds without water seminar coming out.

01:04:19

So lots of stuff You know when you said lakewood you got me nervous there Although I would love to see you preach a different lakewood church

01:04:27

What I would not give for 10 minutes with a microphone at lakewood church in east of texas

01:04:33

Wow Beth moore has one up on me there because she's actually preached at lakewood church.

01:04:39

So yeah, but I have not She's probably been invited back and I don't think you would be So with that, let me just let folks know that uh on July 12th that uh coming coming up that this week

01:04:56

Uh, it'll be monday night at seven o 'clock We have a lagos seminar taking the bible seriously with andrew rapaport is the title but it's mostly going to be uh lagos

01:05:07

Lagos trainer. He's going to show people how to use lagos and Even if you have lagos, so this is for bud and justin you guys have lagos

01:05:16

But what you need to do right now is start figuring out what things you want to buy Because if you attend the event and for some time afterwards you can earn up to 20 80 % off on every sale and so but you do have to register i'll have the link in the show notes the ever bright

01:05:32

Uh link and we'll we'll have it up on the i'm sure we'll have it up on the website as well Uh, and I think that's good for a couple of days

01:05:39

I think like two days after the event that you can put your list together and start Getting what you want to get so I do encourage folks to take the bible seriously sign up for that register for that and uh, we look forward to seeing you there so you can uh, really start to getting uh,

01:05:56

Better handle on your bible so that you don't have to be Well, like ed lytton and well bud

01:06:02

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