Debate aftershow, Slick, Rappaport, Evans, & Purtscher

So yeah, I set that up and next time I'll set it up ahead of time. Someone's talking in the background that Matt. Hey, how you doing. Good good good good. Good so I it was it was a good debate and. Yeah, yeah, I.

Don't think they had a point.

No, I agree with you. They didn't have any real point and what they were saying, you know the singularity issue. But they didn't refute the idea of the doctrine of the Trinity. What was really interesting and Andrew was right to bring it out is that they weren't arguing our position.

They weren't arguing against the Trinity to argue against a triad. Well, they're not in the debate. So they're not arguing and they Admitted they weren't attacking the doctrine of the Trinity but a triad three gods.

That's not a position. So why are you you are arguing with us? So yeah, that was.

It was unfortunate for them. Matt. Can you see people? Texting in the chat.

Let's see hello, and blessing says Remy and as usual the one is keep thinking about God only equals father alone and Christian says amen. Tina says hello. Remy says all anti trends argue three gods. Yep.

So yes, I can see it in the text there. Got only nine people will just be on for a little bit. Atomic apologetics. So do you do quantum apologetics or just I? See most one is the Unitarians have to strawman the Trinity in order to have a chance at a debate and that's I think there's wisdom to that what you just said and the problem is that they they if they have to misrepresent the doctrine, then they're either not understanding it or they're strawmanning it or they are Incapable of arguing against it.

And so either way, they're just not arguing in our position. Isn't that right Alex? I Didn't see it now. It's time to call someone a heretic and that'd be you because he's. I thought it was fine. Yeah, I don't think.

I don't think they did a good job. Oneness yeah oneness versus a Trinity it was monarchy in this um, but we didn't get it. Yeah.

You know, it's funny. James White's debating the oneness guy tomorrow. Dale Tuggy.

I'd like to debate these guys too. I'd like to get us a real serious debates. I want to do some real in-person debates. That's what I want to do.

It's a good format and I think It's so much different than seeing the person online compared to in person, you know, yeah because you got that screen. You're in another state, you know. It's just a lot of a lot different.

Yeah. That's right. Now I'll take your word for it. I guess you won.

Well, I I don't know I mean it was Andrew and I against two guys and. So, you know, I I Don't think they developed their position at all. I don't think they did it very well.

Yeah, well I've just been yeah, I didn't watch it so I can't really comment, okay, that's good.

Atomic Apologetics is telling you who he is Matt. It's John from I believe his name's Wilkins or Wilkinson from Washington. Andrews friend. Okay Andrews friend from Washington. Oh, wait, he's got a bunch of chickens.

John I haven't talked to him in a long time. They see the other guy from FEMA region 10. Yeah, okay.

That's right. Well, good job. It was a great debate. I'm hearing something in the house here and I'm the only one in the house.

Charlie how you doing? Yeah, I'm cooking. I can see that I've been in that kitchen.

Yeah, I didn't I didn't have an air fryer then now I'm using the heck. This thing is great.

I know I'm about to get one myself. I heard really good things.

Getting a what? Air fryer air fryer. Yeah, I want to get one.

I've been hearing good things about them. I'm sold on it. This one burns up. I'm running right out and getting another one.

Good, huh? Oh, yeah. Yeah, Matt. Why don't you give your your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ? Why don't you gift us air fryers?

Sure, I have these little gift certificates for air fryers that are like this and. You can do one kernel of corn at a time.

Well, you know. You can make my wish list include it.

There you go. Nah.

I'm gonna wait till this one gives up the ghost.

Yeah, I'm gonna research them. I want to get one. I'd really do so.

I'll send you the link of the one I was looking at. It's pretty good for different.

Yeah. So join us for the debate. Charlie, did you see the debate? Yeah, I just pulled these babies out. That looks good.

They're still crackling. Did you think. Do you think an atheist said broke into your house? I heard a clunk.

I think my air conditioning or our heater is making some noise. I'm gonna have somebody come over take a look at it. I know somebody will. And then I'm looking down in the Sun down there the cats behind me and there's a light that's coming from the near the tail and it's going and making these these things on the Floor over there like what the heck is that over there and because his tail was going in front of the light so.

Yeah.

That's good, well, yeah, I don't really. I just want to say hi to you guys. I have nothing really to contribute at all here. That's that's a usual.

Virtualized and allegorized and mystified the verses that are problems for.

Cats I missed that cat. Yeah, he's even bigger now. When you saw him, oh, yeah, he is. How many pounds. Well, I measured him last time was like 19, but he goes up and down so he's supposed to be 20.

That's as big as my dog. Yeah, he's. He's big. All right. Well, I'll bounce out. I love you guys. I'll check out the debate later. All right, sounds good. Bye Alex. Bye Joanne.

Yeah, the guy who almost killed me on the fire that is right.

I'm gonna say how do you not know me?

Now I got it been a while. So I've talked to you. How you doing? I'm good been busy. You know, yeah.

Wife's doing great. Yep. She says hi.

You still work. Third shift.

I'm still working. Yeah, mostly doing knock shift right now. With the job that I'm in now. Which by the way, I'm a CNA now, so I'm just doing nursing assistant stuff. Helping out those who are with dementia and all that.

Matt when you get to that part and part in your life there I can help you out. All right. Yeah. Probably come as sooner than later.

There's a question Matt. Pleased to find the differences in oneness Monarchianism and monotheism. Oneness says that.

Oneness is also monarchianism, but there's there's a little bit of a differences in oneness and in monarchianism. So oneness can be Consecutive or or a static in that it's consecutive view of one. It's any kind of a well, it's Kind of the same with monarchianism mono one arch a ruler one God one thing.

It's very synonymous. They're using interchangeably. Modal monarchianism is one of the views that oneness used to hold in that the father became the son who became the Holy Spirit. That's modal monarchianism.

Static monarchianism is also held by some oneness people that says that God Is the Father Son and Holy Spirit at different times not that he's changing view. I mean not changing. Not becoming but just manifesting differently and that it's just the one person doing it not changing forms as they would say.

What are differences there? This guy.

So Matt, I'll apologize to you you're typing at the top of our document I'm like at the bottom trying to get my closing the closing in there. Yeah, you got a whole bunch of good stuff in there that I think we I think I'm pretty much captured a lot of what you.

But Advantage is something like that. I can be typing stuff out. You could be typing stuff out, but I said at the top Yeah, yeah.

That's all right. Yeah, I see you text me said typing notes in the chat and I'm like and you meant the chat and.

That's exactly what it was. That's what we agreed on but yeah.

Yeah, and I said I said I'm typing at the closing.

That's fine. It was fine. Oh. Yeah, oh. Your wife's on the fringe with dementia. This guy come on.

So Matt do you have this? This stream set up where I could share it on our channel as well. Just put the link in. I don't care. No, no, no where we could stream right. Stream it on on our channel. We could stream it on both channels.

I don't know if you if you paid for the.

Gifted, I don't know if you have that feature, but what I'm confused. So When I know I know what you mean, I mean an additional destination, yeah, yes, no not additional destination I.

Would be actually able to stream on my destinations.

Yeah, you can do your own thing. Yeah, I don't think you have it.

I'd have to. I'll show you some time. But it's a stream yard. I don't know about it's a feature in stream yard That allows you to stream on. Most of your guests can stream it on there on their platforms as well.

Happy birthday, John. Oh, thank you. How do you know 180?

Close 53. Wow, that's up there. And and do you want to explain why you your titles your name today is the guy who almost killed you on i5.

You Matt will be able to tell you that story.

We were going back to the airport one day and let's just say that the lanes came together in the freeway and There's a big truck here and something elephant over there and he's like trying to figure it out and it.

We ran out of room and he hit the brakes just in time. And I mean we probably We we probably were it within just a hand width between cars and it was pouring down rain.

Typical Seattle, you know weather and it was bad.

John don't don't feel so bad because there was a time we were celebrating Matt's birthday and.

We we had to drive. Who bought lunch. I wonder.

Matt did cuz he he what you know, he paid for the whole thing for his birthday, but Matt managed to. We hit black ice and Matt managed to get in an accident with all four people who were staying at his house.

It's right. Yeah. It was just the police officer was like we're like, hey, can we get going and he's like well I gotta take a statement and Matt's like look all the people I hit are staying at my house.

Excuse me.

Do you have. I Think I was the only one that squeezed through without a scratch.

That's true, I think. You got that you left a little bit earlier and that's why that's right.

I couldn't figure out why nobody got home.

So there was like three or four cars and you got ahead and you went through and then we hit you know. There's a lights, you know the brake lights you see and you can see the cars moving sideways and I went.

Oh, I took my foot off the the gas just you don't want to hit brakes, you know you're just coasting you're tapping really lightly and couldn't do anything and Just side swiped one car very lightly and then bounced from there into another one very lightly.

We all three pulled over and it was the two guys Drivers staying with it.

So, there you go. So so, you know from from the debate, you know here's the thing that the guy said at the ending and it's so it's so sad that You know, he just did this and tried to walk away with it, but he made the claim That there was a textual variant and he claimed that there was a variant in Matthew 28 19 and 20.

Where he was saying that it doesn't say That that to be baptized in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. But in my name and the only textual variant that I can find in that passage is whether the word. Amen Is there? in at the end of verse 20, I Do not see any other textual variants that he could be referring to.

And and see this is the thing that you can end up having is someone just makes makes a statement. You know kind of like he did with the Alpha and Omega. Oh, let's see Jesus is referred to as the first and the last well but the Revelation was said Alpha and Omega not first and last right?

And and this is the thing that you see people do and and unfortunately, they they get away with it because You know, they in there when they're in their circles they get away with it because they're they're not being challenged.

Yeah, I don't see the variant there either for that out there.

Yeah, and see they see it sounds like oh look this is this is what the Bible says. But you know how many people have the the the apparatus to go and look at at variances? You know.

But you know you did Voice it was a good point that they weren't arguing against a Trinity. They were arguing against the triad or you know, it is word triad, but that you know, why are you debating? You're not debating against us.

You're debating against somebody else. We're not we don't hold of the position that you're refuting. We would agree with you that that position is false. So that was a unfortunate thing on their point.

But at least they were nice guys though. Yeah, they're very nice guys. And I think you know, really what it was. You know Matt you had this in your notes and you know, I'm the type I want to go through passages scripture because they're arguing.

I mean, they're supposed to argue that their position is biblical. And yet they're talking about what early church fathers believed. They're talking about illustrations. None of that matters. And and that's why you're the question that you had in the notes was you do do you acknowledge that the Trinity is defined as one?

God. Once they denied that. It was like okay debate over. Yeah. Yeah, they didn't. They weren't arguing against our position and let's see things they weren't arguing for their position either.

They you know, they tried but it didn't really make any sense. You know, it just didn't make any sense.

So what they tried in the opening. In the opening? He had a presentation and I wasn't gonna you know. The one question I would have for them is I would be curious if how many debates they've done. I believe this may be the first or second time.

I've done a debate with a partner, you know a two-on-two debate. I I think I did one very early on when I was brand new to debating but the the thing is like if I'm thinking they probably haven't done a lot of debates because their their closing statement was pre-written.

A Closing statement is really it's supposed to be addressing what was said in the debate. They were running the clock like when I was asking questions, I mean you and I both were very short in our answers.

Couple of my just said one word. Yes.

Yeah, I did do God. Oh. Who's this speaking of God, you know, like like you may not like the answer. It doesn't mean I'm not answering but but they were kind of running the clock. Yeah, which? You know, I kind of called him out a little bit on that.

But yeah, I mean, I think that you you were trying to be respectful of the time. I mean you mentioned where the the you know, okay. Hey, I could talk more on this, but we don't have time for that so.

Yeah, yeah, and it's true and and I would be willing to I'd like to do what these guys is. Just have a slow one-on-one conversation where we go. Let's look at what you're saying. And look what I'm saying and we go back and forth.

We examine the logical ramifications of this. One of the things I've noticed about some people in the other position is they don't want really want to use logic. They they'll just dismiss it as its philosophy platonic philosophy.

It says whatever they don't want to do any real critical thinking. I'm not saying these guys wouldn't be the case like that, but I've noticed that is the case with a lot of people. But it'd be interesting to see.

Because you have the the issue here. What I was trying to get to we didn't have enough time is so Jesus is praying to who. The father but he's one person. So, how is he one person praying because that's an historian ism.

Which is the the the functional person of the flesh is praying to the functional person of the father. Which is God but that you don't have a true incarnation there. I mean you connect the dots with that and that would mean you don't have a true atoning sacrifice.

And this is why it's so important. So I was trying to get through that a little bit. But you know, I think it was pretty obvious that that the position, you know. Who was he praying to. Was he praying that the flesh is praying to the spirit the father?

Really? And the next question would be was he indwelling it himself? But why was he praying out there and what you brought up about the baptism? Well, he's out there right they could throw his voice. Yeah.

That was. Because because he said well he would. It's like when you enter a room your voice you you you could your voice could be heard from before you enter the room, but. The difference is that the voice of Jesus what they're kind of saying is Jesus is not coming from Jesus's mouth, right?

Yeah, there's a disparity there and confusion a nation of personhood and that's why. That's what I see mostly as difficult with the oneness people is we've got to get into the issue of what does it mean by personhood and really hammer that back and forth because that's I think is where.

It's one of many problems, but that's where I think a big issue is we just talk to them about it. Okay. Well, that was pretty interesting. Yeah, I thought it went. Well, it was nice. So it was good. No one cares.

Looks like I was muted and talking to myself what drove me nuts as they retreated to allegory so. Quickly and so often it would drove me nuts. Yeah, I guess they did.

They did. Well, like every time. Yeah, that's. And Charlie. I mean, that's why I felt it necessary to point that out. So that people would recognize that. You know, this is just bad harmonetics. It's not.

Yeah, everything is just oh, well, it's. It's mystical when it needs to be. I mean clear passages that are meant to be literal. You know. And and they just go oh, well that's that's that's an a you know allegory that's spiritual.

You know, that's lame.

Well, you know what are you gonna do. And they tended to want to look at a lot of the New Testament. Through the spectacles of the Old Testament instead of the other way around. Yeah, I was always taught that you use the New Testament to clarify the Old Testament.

And they were. They had a backward way of looking at things when it fit their purpose.

Yeah, I agree it did but the other nice enough guys and I thought was a good a good overall debate and We'll just see how it goes and in the future and stuff like that, so there we go.

Okay. Yeah, I mean I would I'd want to sit down with a Matt if I like if I sat down with him I'd really like to sit down and Work through harmonetics with them You know. Because that's that's the big area I think that.

That that was lacking I think in the debate is that they they didn't even recognize the problems that they were making. And the connections they were trying to draw. You know. Yeah, like the the word had to refer to Christ everywhere.

Just remember. Remember, they said they were both raised in a Trinitarian atmosphere. That doesn't mean anything.

Well, that does mean something if you're raised in that atmosphere and. Still getting the definition wrong.

Yeah, they said they understood it because that's what they were raised in that atmosphere.

I don't think they ever really jumped in to understand it and latent flowers was a grew up Calvinist. Wow. It's it's the same thing I mean just like I said this at the white Calvinist Conferences. I grew up Jewish but growing up Jewish didn't give me an understanding of Judaism studying the Talmud did.

Right. Mm-hmm. You can grow up anything. It doesn't you know it it just means that you. Know you heard it, but you didn't understand it. Yeah the time the times I've heard latent.

He's mischaracterized a lot of Calvinism. Correct and fights against. And whoops on the straw man. He's constructed rather than the authentic. Well, you know, I would agree that today Calvin would probably slap a lot of people upside the head who claimed the title of being Calvinist, but.

But yeah, no, yeah. Hey, it is what it is. At least they didn't go off and play drinking games and stuff. What's that other? Jerk, what a shameless black eye he puts on. Yeah, well handling the Word of God that way and now just.

Yeah, I want. Well, never mind.

Can you print any debate with late? I?

Didn't watch the one with Layton. No, I watched too many of Layton's.

Yeah. Last night last night was James White and Layton flowers. Oh, no, that's good. Oh Yeah, that was that was quite the debate last night about John. Yeah.

So Wow and. And Layton was willing to take that on knowing. Of course he was.

John Actually got to the passage. He never got to the passage. He always now he never does. I.

Said it on a project slide last night. My prediction was James would work through the text and Layton would work through. You know some parables and jump to every other passage. But the text and from from what I saw online it sounds like that's exactly what happened.

Well, can't say it wouldn't be unexpected that's for sure. That's why I've watched too many of his things and I just can't stomach it. He's a super nice guy so, you know. The link in the private chat is.

Well, I I'm on my phone and and I don't know how to use this new phone. But if you email it to me Charlie at carm, I can get it on my computer when I go back downstairs. That'd be perfect.

Appreciate that if you go to first move the headsets given out.

These first looked in church in Houston, Texas. You could get it there. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm gonna get going guys. Okay, I got a wife I.

Stayed and talk. Or when you shut it down. Oh, go ahead and shut it down. Like I say, I'm on a new phone that I don't know how to use and it's burning me up because It's a present. It was meant to be a nice thing but until I.

Until I whip it it's gonna explode my little brain early. Welcome to the 20th century. Oh, I mean 21st century. Oh That's right.

Brothers thank you. All right. God bless you guys. Okay.