Mormons & Walter Martin

Non-rockabodas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it. Are you gonna bark all day?

Or are you gonna bite?

Delusional is okay in your worldview. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay.

It doesn't really hurt.

Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men lauding them for their courage.

Going to all the world and make disciples not going to the world make buddies not to make brosives, right? Don't go in the world make homies right disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle Nick.

That's a joke master.

When we have the real message of truth.

We cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy.

Always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you. Yet do it with gentleness and Respect. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of apology a radio coming at you guys from Phoenix, Arizona.

Which is actually unusually not so hot today. Yeah, it's been great. Which has been wonderful. I am Jeff Durbin. They call me the ninja and you're watching apology a radio. Livestream broadcast it is also available for everybody at Apology of studios .com.

You guys can download and listen to I think over 200 radio shows and episodes podcasts. Whole host of issues some of the greatest theologians scientists scholars in the world today. Have joined us in some amazing episodes.

So we're grateful for those. I am again the ninja that is over there. Zack attack. What's up, everybody? He is Zachary Conover. He's the director communications at and abortion now calm. How are things going with an abortion now calm bro phenomenal man?

It's so exciting. Do we have any plans for the future some things that we are working on for an abortion now?

We are working on quite a few things. So not just our local outreach here, which we're at every single week. But also up-and-coming. We're gonna be speaking in a prophetic way to our local legislature here regarding the protection of unborn children in the state of Arizona.

Well, let's introduce joy real fast. Let's get more into that. Just everyone knows what's happening to be prayerful about that and they can join with us if you're in Arizona in particular. Yes, please partnering with us in this so that is joy the girl right there.

Hello. How are things going with sheologians?

Good good, you know, there's like a little bit of There's always like a lot of love coming our way and then just like a little bit of Dislike, right. It's fine. Every once in a while. Someone comes. Yeah, and they're like, I don't like the way they're shaking things up around here.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah friend abortion now. Yeah, we like kind of a mix, you know. You get you get so you got a lot of love and yeah, get a lot of hate. Yeah, but yeah summers very good at.

Social media interaction. Yeah, so sheologians calm. Mm-hmm. Sheologian calm. That's the website.

Awesome, man. I love those. I listened to the episodes on feminism and that's how you get equipped. That's right.

So you can also go to apology of studios comm if you're there and getting all the episodes and TV shows. If you guys are All accessed getting all the training you're going to apology Academy. You'll notice that we just updated the sheologians portion so you can get connected with sheologians Also with their apology of studios comm so you guys can get all that stuff all you to your listening satisfaction and desire.

So Zach, let's talk. Yeah, let's talk. Locally we need to sort of start preparing people for what is coming. Yeah in terms of our effort to speak prophetically to the local magistrates. What are we doing in Arizona for the next part of the year?

Well real briefly.

Arizona is unique in terms of having a law on the books already that would criminalize abortion. So it's unique and there's only a handful of states that have current legislation. It's never been overturned never been rescinded that actually prescribes Criminal offense to this act whether it's done chemically surgically.

But it prohibits the act itself. And unfortunately, our legislatures have listened to the Supreme Court and just accepted that as the overriding principle over this state Law, so our goal is to make a lot of noise Surrounding that and just make people aware of the statute.

Arizona statute 13 -3 603. Which makes it very very clear our homicide code in Arizona state law Includes an unborn child at any stage of development. If you kill someone even under that classifies so unborn child any stage of development.

That's homicide murder first second, you know third degree. So our role is to speak prophetically to our local magistrates, which we're gonna be doing that very soon. We're gonna call them to Essentially enforce the law that's already on the books, right?

And so first it comes with making everybody aware of it. Hopefully getting the local churches in the area to join on board with us and to take up this mantle to inform our legislatures That they are responsible.

They need to enforce the law. We're not being lawless in telling them what they need to do. We're actually trying to obey the law and make sure that they not only obeyers on a state law. But also the law of God that's right commands us not to murder and to preserve life.

It's interesting because we've been we've been sounding the alarm on this for some time, but what helped a bit. Recently was an article by azcentral talking about the fact that abortion is illegal in Arizona right now 13 -3603.

That's right.

Yeah, that was kind of a it was a welcome surprise to see. I mean azcentral. I mean, that's local news. They publish it. And so for all the naysayers that say well, you're crazy. There's no such law.

You're making it up, right? You're misinterpreting it. It was like well. Finally, we've got a little bit of support from somebody who's not a church, right? Because that's just the way that it is. It's illegal in Arizona to have an abortion but again, we've been listening to the faulty premise of the Supreme Court and also I've been listening to really a Wrong view of how law works in this country.

Yeah. And that is. That's a misunderstanding of the way our nation was founded and set up and what the role of the states are.

That's right. The Supreme Court is not allowed to create legislation there are constitutional documents say that that is in the hands of Congress. It's not in the hands of the Supreme Court. And not only is it a faulty premise when they said that it's potential human life.

That's factually an error. But it's a faulty premise to say that the state's now need to yield to that opinion. They don't and we're gonna try to be putting pressure righteous godly Controversy pressure upon our local magistrates.

So that's what's up with that. So I'm gonna encourage everybody go to apologia studios .com. If you haven't been there yet, go check it out. We have again lots and lots of radio shows. You got Shia logans on there.

You've got apology a TV apology after show and you've got apology Academy. You can get trained by Dr. James White's you've got John Samson. You've got Douglas Wilson. You've got just so many people there that are just huge gifts to the church.

So go check it out also want to encourage you if you're right now watching this live stream on YouTube. Don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel. We are putting out content Constantly now so things have shifted a bit for us.

We're tightening things down and actually put it producing more content to bless the church and proclaim the gospel. You want to thank Daniel and Carmen for that just producing content and getting out for you guys to be an encouragement to you so subscribe to the channel and Keep a lookout for all kinds of cool stuff coming in the future.

We of course have next week with Jeff Durbin restarting very very soon. We're excited about that. We actually have our first guest all set up and but that's a secret. It's a secret right now, but we'll let you guys in on that as we get closer to it so that is what is the what's going on with the update, so let's sort of dive in today to Your thing, okay, let's talk which I don't even know what it is.

I have an important article that I would like to talk about and discuss. I Can't read the title of it because it includes an expletive. Okay, but I'm just gonna set you guys up. So this article is about Jesse.

Who is a macaw or parrot? Ah, I love macaws and I'm terrified of them, right?

So I saw this and I thought not only is this weird.

But Jeff likes birds. So if let's talk about it. I have two Quaker parrots. I want an African gray. Do they eat oats? They do. I don't know. Quaker parrot do. Quaker parrot. Oh. Of course I should have known coming from Zach that was there something to that.

No, I had always the dad joke. Yes, Zach always got the dad jokes. Okay, so this macaw escaped her home and She sat on a neighbor's roof for three days. This happened in London. So there was a macaw sitting on someone's roof for three days the owners Were unable to get her down and so like a few like animal welfare groups Mm-hmm also joined her in her attempt to get this parrot down off of her neighbor's roof.

Oh, that's awesome. And eventually Firefighters the London Fire Brigade was called with their ladder, so they the firefighters Firefighters who train to save people's lives from burning buildings, right and pull cats from trees.

Yes, and parrots from rooves, apparently. They were instructed To bond with the parrot before they attempted to grab it off the roof. I'm so great by doing that they they were supposed to say I love you to the parrot.

So the parrot did respond with I love you, but then What the firefighters discovered is that this parrot definitely has a potty mouth because a string of expletives is what? Specifically F off Wow to the person trying to.

Apparently this parrot did not want to be rescued. I love you and then So they were also the firefighters attempted to tell her to Come but in other languages. So English Turkish and Greek so this parrot knows three different.

Languages who own this bird just a trilingual parent. A very angry professor, right? Yeah.

Yeah, someone who's very smart and Doesn't care.

Call it call it. Angry birds gives no cares.

Anyway, so all this production comes together. They're speaking to this. They're literally speaking to this parrot this bird in other languages. They're telling this bird. I love you firefighters and.

Then the bird just flies off and goes on another roof and eventually returned home.

Of its own accord. Yeah on its own time right. On its own time. Look I want to come home when I'm ready.

That's right. Yeah, he just wanted to chill on a rooftop right a little bit. Stellar.

Asked me to go to the Arizona bird store a couple of days ago. So candy never like, okay, we'll go look. We're not buying a bird. Really cool store.

They have like a room that you can walk into. With like big hoops that they're all like the birds are just out in the room.

And so it's like very cool there, but also slightly terrifying. It's terrifying more more than stinky. Isn't it terrifying?

Yes, there's just flying there.

And you're not allowed to like touch any of the birds unless you like have the help of someone who works there.

Yeah peanuts, but when I was in there.

There was an African gray that I was just looking at. I was like this bird is amazing and loud and The bird starts to like inch towards me like it wants to like get on me and I was like that's against the rule.

There's a lot of birds in that room, I guarantee you've never been in a room with so many birds.

I'm uneasy towards things that can like peck me. Oh, yeah, and those things are I mean.

Their beaks and their Little claws are yeah. No, it's scary.

I love them to death and I really want an African gray like I Need to get an African gray before I die, but you just don't want to ever get on their bad side. Exactly, but the macaws are what get me though.

I'm not so afraid of the African grays. The macaws are so enormous big. Yeah, yeah and so anyway stellar saying like I want to go to the store and we're like Oh, we don't have time. We're like, all right, fine.

We'll go so we go to the store the whole way there. It's like forever. It's like a long drive to my house and we go to the store. He goes we get some peanuts. A bag of peanuts to feed the macaws. We walk into the macaw room and it is this big room with just birds everywhere.

Just free roaming, right? Well, they know when you come in with a bag of peanuts, they're smart. I know that he has snacks for me so they all immediately like perk up and like look at you and Stella has in his hand this one macaw flies across the room just.

And just scared where it was that he just goes running out of the room. Stellar just runs.

I'm like, no, no, no, no get back in here strangely some things with wings, too. Oh, yeah, weirdly off-putting because they look smaller and then when they start to do their thing, you're like, oh my gosh.

Yeah.

Stella was like my. Call you later.

Thank you for watching the show for today guys, we're gonna go ahead and that's a wrap. That's a that's 10 jet dad jokes in the first 10 minutes and we apologize. So, um, yeah, it is it is terrifying and oh, have you ever seen the ones where when they they they get depressed or lonely or something or they've been abused and Someone drops them off at the bird store and like now they own them the ones that pluck themselves.

Mm-hmm, so they pluck all their feathers out. Yeah, and if they pluck it deep enough, they never grow back, right? So they'll be bald for life. They get at the root. Yeah, they'll be bald for life. So sometimes you go in there and you'll see one that's like seriously 25 years old.

He's plucked all of his feathers out and he's his beaks all broken and stuff. And so it's like yeah, it's the most like decrepit right? It's like And they're like, they're like go ahead. Give a peanut.

You're like, I'm not coming near that bird. I'm not touching it. He's traumatized. Yeah, it's just I see his eyes. Damaged bird just trying to get the beat him. Not put my hand near that thing. So, um, yeah, anyway, Jesse got home safe and sound.

Well, there was a happy ending to the story. That's just a little unexpected though, but those firefighters ruffled her feathers a little bit.

I'm sorry, everybody. I'm sorry about what's happening on the show today. Please forgive us pun masters. Consider it a gift to the free world.

Yes, they share these things. All right.

So before what we're gonna do today is I'm actually going to play some audio from a very very famous debate between dr Walter Martin the author of the kingdom of the cults the Founder of the Christian Research Institute.

And it just was a huge early Christian Research Institute was an amazing gift to the church. Such a blessing to have the Christian Research Institute. Dr. Walter Martin started that Actually was over in the East Coast when he first began and he moved to California because he wanted to be into the hotbed of where the cults and religions really were so that was the purpose of moving there.

I Unfortunately cannot recommend the Christian Research Institute any longer. Hank Kennegraf was the Bible answer man for a long time. He moved from California to I think Like North Carolina or something like that.

I'm not not sure why that was done but he did and that's not the main problem the main problem is Hank Kennegraf has now converted to Eastern Orthodoxy and I know he claims that nothing has changed really with this theology fundamentally.

But believe me if you know Eastern Orthodoxy, you know, they teach about the gospel. If you know what they believe, you know that there's no possible way for Hank Kennegraf to say that he believes everything he believed before.

It is just just not true. And I honestly think dishonest to claim that. So I can't recommend Christian Research Institute any longer. I'm sad to say that but with that said dr Walter Martin was an amazing man of God.

I'm in fact in ministry today though and began ministry through As a major as a major part the inspiration of dr. Walter Martin's ministry I was just telling the team here before we started it was really it's something I reflect on at times in terms of what God Did in my life and how he was sort of just being gracious to me and helping to equip me.

I wasn't raised in a Christian Church. So I knew nothing about the faith and when I first came to faith in Christ I was reading the Bible and I was seeing with Jesus as God. But I was even afraid to say it because I didn't know if I was right about that.

I was seeing it and I was telling Zach that I went to like my third Sunday going to church I was talking to my pastor and I was like, yeah, cuz you know Jesus is God and he I was like looking at him. Like what's he gonna say to that?

He was like, right good. Yeah, right. I was like, okay good. I got that down. Oh.

That's what I thought.

I was sure this said that.

So.

Anyway, I go to the Christian bookstore like every day after school. I'm just sitting on the floor reading books and I remember that the first Christian book I ever read was The King James Only Controversy by Dr. James White.

I only found that book because there was a fight taking place in one of the aisles over Translations of the Bible and they were trying to get me Into it with him and the guy was like you need to read the KJV.

And so the owner of the bookstore came and gave me the King James Only Controversy. So that I because he overheard it happening see how God just took me. But like the first book I read was dr White's book and it was all over a controversy.

I happened to walk into what if I wasn't there in that moment in that time To see that fight and the guy didn't overhear it to give me that book and that's why we believe in Providence. You see I'm saying so then it was another time I was in there when he just came up to me same guy and he gave me this long cassette tape box with all cassette tapes of dr. Walter Martin defending the faith against Baha 'i against the Watchtower against Mormonism.

Did you say cassette tapes? Cassette tapes. And so all of my early training and doctrinal instruction came By way of listening to the Christian faith Defended like there were very few tapes in there. There were actually lectures and sermons from just more Martin application.

It was all fights. It was like Walter Martin was you know at a at a church and and Jehovah's Witnesses were coming up to the mic and trying to challenge him and I was just listening to him going to the Word of God and Defending the faith in such a coherent and bold way and that inspired me to do the kind of ministry that we're doing right now.

Because that changed my life hearing the truth Come against error was so powerful to me. It marked me for good and I could never shake it loose and not in a suggestive weak way.

Yeah, right. A strong bold proclamation of the gospel against error, right? That's right. That's so rare.

It is it is and and and to see just such conviction on top of such historical connection. Like that was what got me to is when I got to hear about the early Christians and the church fathers from Walter Martin like when somebody would bring up some random thing about God and the Trinity or whatever and try to diss the Trinity Martin would not just go to the scriptures, but he'd go back to church history.

And that was something that just inspired me. I was like, oh this this faith this is something that God has been growing in history for 2 ,000 years and now I'm a part of this and It just created this love in me for the church itself in history and the church fathers and and prime.

You know pre merely my love for the Word of God just just grew and it was through the ministry of dr. Walter Martin.

Yeah, powerful things. One of the things that I found particularly helpful a lot of his stuffs on YouTube for free, too I mean examining other other worldviews Is when he pretend he steps into the shoes of whatever worldview he's examining.

Yeah, and he says this is how they would present using the scriptures to Support what they're trying to teach you and then this is what you have to be prepared for. I think that's particularly helpful as he assumes the perspective of the person of the opposite worldview that comes to you trying to put scripture forward as their Their foundation, but of course they have other traditions and things that run alongside that but that's very helpful to hear it that way.

And then he stops and he says, okay now I want you to think about everything. I just told you okay. And now we're gonna go through and take it apart one thing at a time and compare it to scripture.

Yeah, it wasn't something about if you get the opportunity to watch Interactions with Walter Martin on YouTube and not just listen to him. I do have to say that I love the like sort of. Like music of the time and the dress.

Like the way that he's dressed is just very like seventies. Yeah, it just adds to the enjoyment.

I don't know. I'm with you. He feels like this this this classic devout fiery 50s Baptist preacher right like the dress and yeah totally totally and. Yeah, so if you guys get a chance, we would encourage you go check out some of Walter Martin stuff.

He was mentored by Donald Gray Barnhouse who was the pastor the minister at 10th Presbyterian Church, I believe it's called and in Philadelphia and Donald Gray Barnhouse is obviously reformed. And so Martin was kind of a mixed bag.

He was essentially reformed and when he would really come down to nitty-gritty and defend the gospel. You would hear all the all the solid biblical reform stuff there. There were little areas where we would have some disagreements with Walter Martin.

The areas, you know of eschatology in one sense. But solid man of God a man to be emulated and honored for his labor for the gospel.

And if you don't have kingdom of the cults or kingdom of the occult, right make sure you get those.

Yeah, I was gonna say he really did he did. He's responsible for some huge resources to specific groups of people. Well, he saw he saw groups of people and he thought like I need to Create something that can reach out that can that can be passed on given to others so that it can be a resource for them.

Yeah, did that such detail. I mean just the research and the detail that goes into the examination.

Yes before dr. Martin wrote kingdom of the cults There was no resource like the kingdom of cults for the Christian Church to be able to examine in the light of Scripture these different religions beliefs and so you have to just understand just the Compelling nature of the kingdom of the cults when it arrived in the hands of the Christian Church.

It was this one-stop resource to understand. This is what this religion teaches about God and Christ and salvation and this is the and it was solid stuff and they would say this is the Biblical response to that and you could just as a Christian have this resource where you can flip it open and go.

I had some. Watch the Jehovah's Witnesses show up in my door. What do they believe and how do I talk to him? I could spend you can spend two hours reading through that which is the longest chapter I believe in the kingdom of the cults and then you could sort of be ready to talk to him and say okay now I Understand.

And this is let me say this was probably the thing that makes.

Me.

What I am today in evangelism, of course the Spirit of God Convicting me and challenging me working on my heart trying to love people that that of course is premier. Please don't think anything other than that, but it was dr. Martin's love graciousness respectfulness and Boldness that I found to be this consistent.

Oh, that's biblical, right? It wasn't just fiery sort of like smash them and this is the truth. You're an error. It was measured you can tell he was he cared for them. He loved them and then one of the things that got me was one of those cassettes in there was about witnessing to the cults and it was like seven steps to witnessing to the cults or something like that and There was a whole portion in there where he really Challenges Christians like this has to be because you love them and you want them saved.

It can't be just to win win with fancy theological footwork. He says it has to be not and this is my newfound philosophical knowledge. And so I'm gonna I'm gonna terrorize you with it. You have to love the person or don't do it and that's what got me as a young man.

Was I have to love these people? Yeah, and I say oftentimes like when I was really young I'm really glad that's YouTube wasn't around and recordings weren't around because I'm sure there are many moments where I was Not honoring Christ in terms of how I was engaging somebody and it was Walter Martin's instruction that really helped me to see no I need to repent of that.

I need to love these people. However, don't get me wrong. There were moments Necessary biblical moments of Walter Martin lays the smack. Oh, yeah, right like Jesus and Paul where it's necessary. He wouldn't and that is I think you have to balance those things as a Christian go.

Okay, I'm talking to this guy in the street who's who's loving and gracious asking questions. We're just dialoguing. I can't try to take that guy's head off. I had to call him with love and grace To a bold proclamation of the gospel, but you also have the people who are cultists who are Propagating falsehoods who are warring against the truth.

You do have to handle them in a different way in Moments in terms of their denial of the truth and how they work against the truth. So you have to sort of balance those things and Walter Martin really I think showed me how to do that.

That's one thing I think about from my own experience and ministering to people. Are you know doing that kind of? Were a confrontation every time I've ever failed to do it every time I've ever been afraid to do it.

It's not because of a lack of information. That I don't have about what they believe or what I believe. It's a lack of love for people. Yeah, that is what where we fall short and that's where we stumble.

I think is we just don't have enough love. I don't have enough love to reach this person at the moment.

And so let me ask you guys that so when you think about like in the past Times where you you had an opportunity to share the gospel with somebody and you didn't you know. Or you know, you had a desire maybe to like reach a particular group or segment.

But you've never actually sort of gotten to it. What do you think is the thing? It's a good thing for everyone who's listening right now. What what is what is holding you back? Like what are the barriers in terms of boldly proclaiming your faith and the gospel to somebody?

What are the barriers that that stop us? What do you think?

Anything you would say I'm gonna go with pride. Why. Yeah, I think that that'll When you really break down a lot of the reasons That you could give to not speak with someone. Maybe you feel like you don't have time or you don't.

Obviously, that's like Exalting considering yourself before others. Obviously, there's it's okay to keep a schedule, you know, that's not what I'm saying. But I think also when we say like, oh, I just I feel like I don't know enough information to speak to that group Of people that's not really out of love for them.

It's not I. Typically, it's not out of love for them. Usually when when you say I just don't know enough to talk to that that type of person the person who's in that group what you're really saying is I don't want to look stupid and I want to have all the answers so that I can like save face so that I can keep my reputation as An evangelist or an apologist or whatever?

And that's really putting yourself before other people which is Just results in self exaltation, which means that you you are just like Shining the little idol that you've created of you. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's good. I would also say we have a tendency to make excuses which I've done in that moment. Like there are other things going on in our lives, you know, even in that moment someone comes to your door.

You're like, well, I have this thing to do. I can't talk to you right now, right? But at that moment what's more important than that person's eternal well-being well. And also I brought that person to you many times you can.

Schedule an appointment with them. They're willing to come back. So there's that's what I mean. Like there is it's it's very fair to say I don't have time to talk to you right now. But it's also very fair to say that like if you don't make an appointment with that person then perhaps you.

Perhaps you intentionally didn't make an appointment with that person. Yeah, because for what whatever reason.

Yeah got to love people and I want to say I just was reminded as I actually pulled up the live stream right now as You guys are watching. We have very interesting audiences. A difference on in audiences from our Facebook channel to our YouTube channel.

Let me just say very different comments are different. Also. Yeah.

It was like it's almost compared to Facebook. It's like a it's like a post apocalyptic. Yes.

It is so we love you and we're grateful for all of you. Truly we are. Can I just respond to something that has been said in the comments. And we're happening live right now. So I did see some of your comments and I I got to say this guy did see it come up a few times.

I.

Mean this with so much love and humility, but I but I just gotta say it firmly It's so important for us as Christians to be Stronger Minded than the world. It's so it's so important for us as Christians to to actually hold to higher intellectual and rigorous standards Than the world we say that we follow the one who is the embodiment of truth.

Jesus says in John 14 6 I am the way and the truth. He's the embodiment of truth. God says come let us reason together. God is the God of logic. He's the God who is consistent. God cannot lie. God cannot engage in common in logical contradiction.

That's not what he's like. God walks in the truth. God is the truth. And so with that Christians can't be the kind of people that have such small minds and such a lack of Discipline they're not we're not willing to actually investigate and know is this really the truth or do we as Christians today?

Believe anything we read on the internet like oh, it's on the internet. So it's true now I know that we wouldn't say that but is it true? How many of us have gone onto a website and read something about essential oils and we've gone This is the cure for all things and cancer now by mind you I'm very crunchy and I have essential oils in my bag.

But truly like we just go to our website. We read something written by some random person. We don't even know and we just go that's true. This is essential oils will cure your broken arm. It's like wait a second.

Like hold on just a minute now. Like there's so many things we need to do to firm up our commitments to like strong rigorous intellectual thoughts with that man, oh man that I see something this week that just Blew me away.

Somebody said that why is our set colored with red? Don't we know that that's the devil's color?

Oh my.

That that's Satan's color red and. So that of course then they said this they said look at the red on the set. These guys are clearly demonic and they said and why is there a pagan symbol on the wall?

And what I say to that is some of the Trinity. I love you, and the Lord loves you but please Firm up your commitments to rigorous thought. Jesus owns the colors. He created the universe in the world and there is nothing in Scripture whatsoever.

Nothing nothing nothing that associates the color red with Satan. Now there are artistic renditions artistic renditions of Satan as horns and red. I mean I think of the movie legend with Tom Cruise. Right, like that's the the premier example of like the long horns and the fangs and you know.

The wings and and oh, that's the devil. He's red. You realize that that is not Biblical because in the Bible talks about Lucifer. He's a fallen angel. He was glorious and beautiful. If you saw him today, he'd appear as a bright light.

He would be an angel of light. He would not be Red so as a matter of fact watch what if we lit up the set with bright white lights? Then somebody could say according to the Word of God the devil appears as an angel of light.