July 6, 2015 ISI Radio Show with Mike Gaydosh on “The Providence of God” Part 2

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon, Cumberland County,.

Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Monday on this sixth day of July 2015 after probably one of the most depressing and solemn Independence Day weekends that I've ever experienced in my life due to the recent horrific decision of the Supreme Court of the United States on same-sex marriage, which caused many to doubt whether or not we should be celebrating Independence Day, and in fact, many Christians did more than just doubt.

They, in protest, refused to celebrate. But that's not what we're talking about today. We are talking about the providence of God with our guest Michael Gadosh, who is the founder of Solid Ground Christian Books, and he is also my very first pastor of some 30 years ago.

He immersed me in the waters of baptism and was my very first pastor as a born-again Christian, and today, providentially, is also the 600th anniversary of the execution of John Hus, also known as Jan Hus, his execution by the Roman Catholic Church.

John Hus was burned at the stake with pages from Wycliffe's Bible translation, used as kindling for the fire, and Hus' last words before entering glory for eternity with Christ were, in 100 years, God will raise up a man whose calls for reform cannot be suppressed, and providentially, approximately 100 years after Hus uttered those last words of his, the great reformer Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the door of the castle church in Wittenberg, Germany, sparking the flames of the Protestant Reformation.

The Meaning of Providence and God’s Sovereign Rule

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to further discuss our conversation on the providence of God,.

Mike Gadosh. Good to be with you once again, Chris. I really appreciated the first time we were able to be together, and I'm very thankful that we are able to also celebrate John Hus and his life and his martyrdom.

What a blessing it is to be able to see the hand of God even again, and the providence of God, to fulfill that almost prophetic spoke at his time. And I understand.

That Solid Grand Christian Books actually has a biography of Hus that you make available. Yes,.

Just a couple years ago, we did a trilogy of reformers, some of the lesser known reformers, William Farrell, Ulrich Zwingli, and John Hus. And John Hus, we entitled his book, The John the Baptist of the Reformation.

And then Elijah of the Alps is the story of William Farrell. And then Ulrich Zwingli, The Patriotic Reformer. And so we have all three of those available at Price, and a memoir of John. Well, I'm sure that Laurie Jean Farrell is very honored that.

You've published a book in honor of her husband, William. That's actually an inside joke. Well,.

I married them. I married Laurie Jean, so I suppose that was appropriate for me to do that. But they don't spell the name exactly the same, though. Okay. One R, one L. And that was just an.

Inside joke for those of you who are listening. Bill Farrell was a beloved deacon of Calvary Baptist Church and then Grace Reformed Baptist Church following that, and may still be. I don't know for certain if he's a deacon there, but here's a shout out to both Bill and Laurie Jean.

But we started the conversation on God's providence, and it would probably be helpful if you, for those of our listeners who missed that interview, if you could define, once again, providence in a theological sense.

And I will also let our listeners know our email address if you have any questions for our guest, Mike Gaydosch of Solid Grand Christian Books. If you have any questions on God's providence or about his publishing ministry, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

That's C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. So if you could go.

Ahead with a definition of providence. The Baptist God's works of providence are most holy, wise, and powerful, preserving and governing all his creatures and all their actions. I'd like to add a few more things that I was able to dig up since we spoke last time by J .I. Packer.

He has an outstanding little article in the New Bible Dictionary, which is not new at all. In that article, he begins by saying, providence is normally defined in Christian theology as the unceasing activity of the Creator, whereby in overflowing bounty and goodwill, he upholds his creatures in ordered existence, guides and governs all events, circumstances, and free acts of angels and men, and directs everything to its appointed goal for his own glory.

He goes on and says many other things. Maybe we can look at those as we go along here. But that's basically what we're talking about. We're saying that God is in charge, God is sovereign, and the divine sovereignty of God is displayed in the hand of God, ordering all the events that take place.

And I think it's important, Chris, since you brought up the... I don't refer to them any longer as the Supreme Court, I just call them the highest court, our highest court. Truly, the Supreme Court, obviously, is in heaven, and so we rest in truly the Supreme Court, and our highest earthly court is the one that made the decision.

But we need to remember in chapter 21, verse 1 of Proverbs, and this is a perfect... The king's heart is like the channels of water in the hand of the Lord. He turns it. In that passage, he turns it wherever he wishes.

The he, in both cases, is not the king, of course, but is the Lord, who is the king of kings and the Lord of lords. And so, even though we are disappointed, even though we, in some cases, can be brokenhearted about decisions that are being made on an earthly level, we also recognize that the hand of God has not been removed.

His blessing, his hand of blessing, appears to be being removed from our country, for sure. He appears to be giving us over or turning us over as a nation to those things which man desires, every man doing what is right in his own eyes, which, of course, is what happened in Israel when they had no king.

That is, when there is no king that represented God, when every man did what was right in his own eyes, and that is precisely what we see happening in our country today.

Satan’s Schemes and God’s Glory in Romans 9

We actually have a listener all the way from Dublin, Ireland, Joe, who writes a question. In fact, I don't think Joe will mind if I give his last name, Joe Riley, who, as it turns out, is one of our most loyal listeners from back in the original years of Iron Sharpens Iron, between 2006 and 2011, who faithfully listened and even called in during the broadcast a couple of times.

And I'm thankful to God that Joe is once again listening to our program and spreading the word about it in Ireland. And Joe asks, can you please ask your guests to explain how Satan's schemes are used by God in his providence for his own glory?

And of course, the his is capitalized H, so obviously he's referring to God's own glory.

Yeah.

And that's an excellent question, which really dovetails off what you were just saying.

Yeah, I think that one of the passages that has helped me in this matter is the case that is described in Romans 9, and it is the issue of God raising up. And I believe that the raising up of Pharaoh is truly the raising up of Satan himself.

And when you look at the language that is used, for instance, in verse 14, we read, what shall we do? Is there, of course, Paul responds, may it never be, or God forbid, make a noito, for he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy.

I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. For the scripture, for this very purpose, I raised you up to demonstrate my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.

So then he has mercy on whom he desires, he hardens whom he desires. Well, those very words, when you go back and look at the original speaking of those words by Moses, it was through Moses, but it's here called the scripture, says to Pharaoh, for this very purpose, I raised you up.

Possibly not be able to apply that passage and those very words to the one who was behind Pharaoh, which is Satan himself. And so we have, for this very purpose, I raised you up to demonstrate my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.

I think when you look at the book of Revelation and you see how God's victory over the serpent and God's final culmination into the fiery furnace forever and ever, let us know that God is in charge. Even what Satan does, everything that he seeks to do to thwart the purpose of God in the end will ultimately bring glory to God.

The greatest injustice that's ever been done in human history was the only sinless person who ever walked the face of the earth was if there ever seemed to be a time when God was not in control, when it seemed as if Satan was the one gaining the victory, if there was ever a time when it appeared as if the evil one was the one who was going to get the last word, this is what we are told.

These words, Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs, which God performed through him in your midst, just as you yourselves know this man, delivered up by the predetermined plan and for knowledge of God.

You nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put him to death, but God raised him up again. And then in Acts chapter 4, when they go, they've been warned that they're going to be beaten and even put to death if they continue to preach and they come back to the people of God and they share with them what they've been told.

And what did they do? They cried out to God and they said, O Lord, it is thou didst make the heaven and the earth to see and all that is in them, who by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of our father David thy servant did say, why did the nations rage and the peoples devise futile things?

The kings of the earth took their stand and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord and against his Christ. For truly in this city, they were gathered together against thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel to do whatever thy hand to occur.

And now, Lord, take note of their threats. Grant that thy bond servants may speak thy word with all confidence while thou dost extend thy hand to heal and signs and wonders take place through the name of thy holy servant Jesus.

And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken and they were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness. Here in these two passages in Acts 2 and Acts 4, we see that of Satan in seeking to the work of the supreme work of God in destroying.

So we argue from the greater to the lesser, just as our Lord says not even a sparrow falls to the ground, the very hair fear men what they can do to you. And so you have there the argument from the lesser to the greater and from the greater to the lesser.

You have the greatest event in human history that God was fully in charge of and he is also fully in charge of all the smaller things as well, is in an almost infinite variety of ways, because we have a God of infinite wisdom who is able to take all of these things and put them all together in a way that will bring him glory and will bring good to his people.

You know, I don't know if you're aware of any biblical evidence that Satan knew that his plans to bring all of humanity to hell with him were going to be thwarted by the cross of Christ. I don't know if he was aware that he was actually aiding in destroying his own plans by possessing Judas and having everything fall into place for Christ to be executed.

But it's interesting that in Matthew 8, the demons seem to know something about their future when they cried out to Christ, what do you want with a son of God? Have you come here to torture us before the time?

They obviously knew that hell awaited them. So do you know if Satan was aware that his very aiding in the orchestration of Christ's death was going to destroy his plan to bring all of humanity to hell?

The Cross, Human Responsibility, and the Mystery of Evil

Yeah, I really don't know. I don't know that there may be somebody that has an answer to that. I don't know myself for sure. I would think that the answer would be no, that he didn't know, that he did not realize that what he was doing was actually ultimately going to fulfill the purpose of God.

He knew something, but how much he knew and understood, of course, the scriptures were readily available. They would have been available to Satan as well. Isaiah 53 would have been available for Satan to read, whether or not he would understand the spiritual fulfillment of that in Christ.

Psalm 22 and many other passages as well. I don't know. I don't know that the scriptures really make that clear to us. But one thing is certain, that all that God does, he does for a purpose. Now, at the same time, I think it's important not to go to a position of fatalism, where we would basically say, Que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be.

Which, of course, ultimately can bring one to hyper-Calvinism, where a person doesn't have to witness, because, well, obviously, whoever God has chosen to be saved will be saved, whether I witness to them or not.

And once we begin to fall into that kind of logic, which truly is evil logic, we are putting ourselves in a very dangerous position. I think it's important for us to remember, like, for instance, what Paul says in 2 Corinthians chapter 2.

You recall in chapter 5 of 1 Corinthians, he urged the people to put an immoral man out from their midst, committing an immoral act with a, I believe it was his stepmother. And he, apparently, they did listen to Paul in 1 Corinthians.

And in 2 Corinthians, Paul urges them to welcome him back into the fellowship, because he apparently had come to repentance. But now they had apparently made it, actually kept it, and had not allowed him to come back, even though he had repented.

And Paul urges them to welcome him back. And then he adds these, he adds the words, You forgive anything, I forgive also, for indeed what I have forgiven. If I have forgiven anything, I did it for your sakes in the presence of Christ, in order that no advantage be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes.

Now, here's the apostle Paul saying, we are not ignorant of Satan's devices. On the one hand, he'll push us to the place where we'll tolerate immorality. That's one extreme. On the other extreme, we're not willing to forgive the repentant, who have repented of their immorality.

And that's going to the other extreme, as we fall off the horse. So we have to be mindful of Satan's schemes. We have to be responsible for understanding how he operates. But in the end, we recognize that, in fact, now might be a good time to insert a couple of things that Pachris said that I think are really, really helpful.

Can I take a moment to just read those?

Absolutely not. Go, definitely, go ahead.

Okay, what I read is he directs everything to his appointed goal for his own glory. He then adds this, This view of God's relation to the world must be distinguished from seven absorbs. The weight of the world wounded up like a clock and then stepped away, and the world is just running by his net.

And another power, usually under no control at us, it's a control of a kind that denies the controlling power to be a rational being. And then finally, fate, the doctrine which denies the controlling power to be benevolent.

We believe that God's problem, it's not fate. We don't speak about a person having good luck. Very mindful of speak about luck, and we hear people talking all the time about Mother Nature, or the god, the golf gods.

Or if you're watching, it's very rare to watch a PGA event at some point, say the god smiled upon him, or the golfing god didn't smile upon him. Again, these are all ways that people are now talking about the providence of God, which are very ungodly.

And I'm sure that at least one of those categories would fit perfectly for Rabbi Kushner. A lot of people today, especially younger people, have no idea who that is. But back in the 80s, I believe, or early 90s, he was a much more well-known figure.

He wrote a book, Why Bad Things Happen to Good People. And the doctrines of grace would be on the polar opposite of that view, that God is actually ordaining and orchestrating things, even that we view as horrific, in fact, things that are horrific.

This is a difficult thing to explain, the theodicy, as it's called, how we reconcile the existence of unspeakable, brutal, torturous evil with a loving and merciful God being in control and sitting on his throne.

These are not easy things to discuss. And of course, in conversation with our friends, neighbors, and loved ones, the issues of the Holocaust come up. And of course, since 9 -11, when we had the horrific events at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon building occur, the hands of terrorists, we who believe in the sovereignty of God have to begin to address these things.

Now, if you could explain, first of all, how does God even hold these men, these evil men like the Nazis and like the Islamic terrorists, how does he hold them responsible if he is the one who indeed has preordained such horrific events, and why on earth would he do those?

Why on earth would he preordain such events?

Well, why and how God is going to ultimately bring glory to his own name through this ultimately depends on our faith entrusting in what God has said. In other words, we can't understand. We simply do not have the ability to comprehend.

But I have no problem with that because the Bible tells us that God's ways are higher than our ways, his thoughts are higher than our thoughts, infinitely higher than our thoughts. And therefore, the fact that we can't comprehend how God can bring good out of these evil events, again, I think the only thing that's helped me through the years is always going back, once again, as I said earlier, to the most horrific event in human history, the most unjust event in human history.

Now, because people have become so accustomed to that and people would tend to say, well, the killing of 500 martyrs at this point or 3 ,000 or 200 here or whatever, well, that's worse than us. Well, no, it's not.

Of a sinless way he was, these things, absolutely not. And how that can work out, frankly, we cannot explain it. No problem because when we look at the language of Paul in Romans 11, 33 to 36, how unsearchable are his ways for who has known the mind of the Lord or who became his counselor, who has first given to him that it might be paid back to him again.

For from him are all things. To him be the glory forever.

Amen.

I think that trying to understand these things, we need to realize that unbelievers will not be able to... We, as believers, struggle with it. We struggle with trying to understand how can a good God, how can a great God, a God who is both good and great, how can he permit, how can he allow, whatever the language you want to use, how can he allow these things to take place that are so evil?

There is, again, and I think this is very important. He says a lot in few words. God rules the hearts and actions of all men. And he quotes Proverbs 21 .1, which I just quoted earlier, the heart of the king.

Often for purposes of his own which they do not suspect. And he cross-references the words of Joseph to his brothers. You meant it for evil that men do only that which he has ordained that they should do.

Yet they are truly free their own and they are morally responsible for them. Compare Deuteronomy 30 verses 15 and following. A distinction must be drawn between God's allowing, and then he puts in parenthesis, or giving up sinners to practice the evil that they have preferred.

And then he quotes Psalm 81 .12 and following. Acts 14 .16 where he allowed nations to go their own way. And Romans 1 .24 -28 where it says God gave them up or gave them over to practice things that are unbecoming and that included homosexual.

Prompting his people to willing to do what he commands. Philippians 2 .13. In the former case, according to the biblical rule of judgment, the blame for the evil belongs entirely to the sinner. Luke 22 .22, that's with Judas.

Whereas in the latter case, into God. Where Paul says, I labored harder than all the rest and yet not I, but the grace of God. We're only able to go so far, Chris. We can only go so far as revelation will give us.

God has revealed these things to us, that he has ordained all of these things. He will bring it all to pass in the end. And I believe that John Calvin hit the nail on the head when he said that all of these horrific things, the Holocaust and 9 -11 and during that period and stuff, all of these men who have been responsible for the murder of so many, in some cases, millions of people, demands a day of judgment, a day of reckoning, when men will be held.

And I believe that just to varying degrees of glory in heaven, there will be varying degrees. The idea of, gives the idea that a person can live the way a Hitler lived and destroy the lives of millions of people.

And then that's the end. And he's treated exactly like the grandmother who was a nice woman, but who never trusted Christ. And she's going to also die. And she's going to also go exactly the same way.

There is no justice in that. That isn't a just, we believe in a just God who is going to deal in evil men, will be punished according to as their evil deserves.

We have to go to a break right now. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Mike Gaydosh of Solid Ground Christian Books, either on our subject involving providence or on Solid Ground Christian Books, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages.

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And before I continue my conversation with Mike Adosh of Solid Ground Christian Books, I just want to welcome as a new sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron, Thrivant Financial, the Carlisle, Pennsylvania branch, which is led by Mike Gallagher.

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And our email address here is if you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Mike Adosh on the providence of God or on Solid Ground Christian Books, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com. It's interesting, Mike, that you were talking about before how the Bible doesn't really give us a detailed explanation in regard to specific horrific events that have occurred and will occur in regard to their purpose, other than we know that it will ultimately bring glory to God.

We have the Apostle Paul in Romans 9, after explaining that he loved Jacob and hated Esau before they were even born or had the opportunity to do anything good or bad, he, Paul, foresaw that people would say, you will say to me then, why does he still find fault?

For who resists his will? On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, why did you make me like this? Will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?

What if God, although willing to demonstrate his wrath and to make his power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? So, Paul had the opportunity, obviously, to give us a more detailed explanation or answer, but he doesn't.

And obviously, you're right.

And I think that that's a very good point, because when you go back to the previous portion of chapter 9, he did answer the previous question. But when he finally pressed that question, it was at that point that he juxtaposes the word God with the word man.

That is, who are you, O man, you would question. You have no right to question God. But men do question God, and they question him continually today, because men have a very low view of God. Men have lost sight of the majesty of God and the glory of God.

I've just been teaching in our church through Isaiah, the book of Isaiah, and yesterday came to Isaiah 40. And I covered verses 1 to 11 yesterday morning in Sunday school. This coming Sunday, I'm going to deal with 12 to 31.

And Packer has a great chapter on the majesty of God, in which he talks about the fact that we have problems today because we have lost sight of the majesty and the greatness and the glory of God. And we feel, as you may recall, C .S. Lewis had a book entitled God in the Dark.

And that book is merely one of the articles in the book. The title of the book, God in the Dark, is an article in which an ancient man, a criminal, looking up to the judge. Modern man, everything has been reversed.

God is now in the dark, and God is the one that has to give an account of his dealings. And if God can give an explanation for why he has allowed certain things to happen, he might actually get acquitted.

But he says the whole point is, in the modern world, God is now in the dark. That is, God is the one on trial. God is the one who has to explain how he could allow the things to happen that he has allowed to happen.

You know, the last time we were on together, somebody asked a question we weren't able to get to. It had to do with Luke 13, and my use of Luke 13 to address the issue of, I just quoted from the passage where Jesus, some of the Galileans' Pilate had mingled their blood with the sacrifices.

Do you remember that question?

Uh, yes.

And it says, He answered and said, Do you suppose these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate? I tell you no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

Or do you suppose those 18 on whom the tower of Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem? I tell you no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

Now, I do not believe what Jesus was saying there is that there aren't times when God does bring judgment upon certain people, because certainly he does. And, uh, and, and, uh, but what Jesus was, Jesus, knowing the hearts of the people who are coming to him, he was exposing their hearts and letting them know, Hey, look, if you think that you are righteous and they are less righteous, and that's the reason why these things happen to them, you need to understand that you also need to repent or you will also perish.

And so I, I, I, I don't want to be misunderstood about that. In fact, um, a couple of things that I wrote down here, one of them was the incident that took place in first Kings 22. You remember that King Ahab had been warned by Micaiah not to go into battle because if he did, he was going to die.

So what does Ahab disguise himself as a common soldier thinking to outwit the enemy. But then we are told now a certain random in the joint of the armor down and take me out of the fight at an eve. And it says that the nobody was back the arrow and let it fly.

It found its way into the armor in the joint of the armor. That was a one in a million hit. And yet God directed it because of his judgment that had been given on King Ahab. And because of what God's word must come true.

You know, there's an example of quite a remarkable example. It happened during the civil war. A union general was at the battle of Spotsylvania courthouse during the civil war. When he was warned, there were snipers who were hiding in trees on the other side of a large cornfield.

It was almost a mile away. His last word, an elephant at this distance, I stood in, I stood in the very spot. And, you know, to those words, wow, absolutely right. The mile away by 50 years later, there's a plaque.

Well, the hand of God is involved in all of these things. And while we may not be able to understand them, we may not blame them to people. Why did God allow this to happen? Why did God allow my child to become sick?

Why did why did God take my child? All we can say is God has not made a mistake. He has never made a mistake. God has never done anything that was unjust, that was unrighteous. And God will bring good.

Romans 8, 28 is still in the Bible. God causes all things to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose. And all we can say to people is your illness, the death of your child, things that happen, people having accidents on their honeymoon, and he's been losing his beloved wife that he just married.

I mean, things like this happen every day, it seems. And we need to be compassionate. We need to be tender. We must not be cold. We must not be heartless as we explain these things to people. But we need to be able to draw near to people and say, look, God has...

And when you know that God has a purpose, it will help you greatly to be able to handle situations that at this point in your life, how long, oh Lord, will you forget me? The psalmist had to know that God doesn't forget his people.

And yet, you know, there are times we feel as if he has forgotten us. And the psalmist expresses those words in the way that he does.

In fact, this would be a great time to just pause for our last break. And this is your last opportunity to email a question for Mike Gadosh, to be read on air, that is, at chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com.