Do Man Buns Signal The Fall of Western Civilization?

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Warning, the following message may be offensive to some audiences. These audiences may include, but are not limited to, professing Christians who never read their

00:05

Bible, sissies, sodomites, men with man buns, those who approve of men with man buns, man bun enablers, white knights for men with man buns, homemakers who have finished

00:10

Netflix but don't know how to meal plan, and people who refer to their pets as fur babies. Viewer discretion is advised. People are tired of hearing nothing but doom and despair on the radio.

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The message of Christianity is that salvation is found in Christ alone, and any who reject

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Christ therefore forfeit any hope of salvation, any hope of heaven.

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The issue is that humanity is in sin, and the wrath of almighty

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God is hanging over our heads.

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They will hear his words, they will not act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment, when the fires of wrath come, they will be consumed, and they will perish.

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God wrapped himself in flesh, condescended, and became a man, died on the cross for sin, was resurrected on the third day, has ascended to the right hand of the

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Father, where he sits now to make intercession for us. Jesus is saying there is a group of people who will hear his words, they will act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment come in that final day, their house will stand.

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Welcome to Bible Bash, where we aim to equip the saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions you're not allowed to ask.

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We're your hosts, Harrison Kerrig and Pastor Tim Mullett, and today we seek to answer the age -old question, do man buns signal the fall of Western civilization?

01:43

So Tim, why don't you kick us off by just answering that title question for us. What do you think? Do man buns signal the fall of Western civilization as we know it?

01:52

I think yes, yes. All right, that's the episode. See you guys next week.

01:59

That's the answer. Absolutely. I think they're the signal.

02:06

They signal the fall. I wouldn't say that they're the root cause. They're a symptom of the root cause of the fall of the

02:12

West for sure. Okay. So maybe fill out that for us a little more.

02:20

Is it the man bun itself or is it the long hair in general?

02:28

What's the main root of the issue there? Sure, yeah.

02:35

I think that there is a pervasive gender confusion that has taken hold of our society where our society is basically rejecting

02:45

God's purposes for humanity at a pretty fundamental level across the board. And this shows up in all the intersectional stuff.

02:53

This shows up in the gender role confusion kind of stuff. And I would say that the man buns are a symptom of the problem, a significant symptom of how far we've fallen as far as that goes.

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And the more that we have confusion along those lines, the more that we are setting ourselves up as a people who are ready to be conquered or pillaged as far as that goes.

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But then in terms of just the moral issues at stake, the question that you're asking is essentially, what's the issue with the man bun in particular?

03:23

Is it the long hair in general or is it the particular style of hair? That's kind of where you're going with that?

03:29

Yeah. Yeah, I would just say yes. Yes to both of them. It's the man bun and the long hair.

03:36

Yeah, it's both. Okay, so maybe there's some people listening who are probably thinking, what in the world?

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What are they even talking about? What's going on? What am I listening to right now? Right, right.

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Hey, we have a trigger warning for just that sort of person. Yeah, that's meant to be the filter.

03:54

They've been warned. They've been warned. Fair warning, so we're allowed to do whatever we want now. Yeah, after you put a trigger warning on, you can say whatever you want.

04:03

I guess that's the rule. Well, okay. I mean, why exactly?

04:09

Maybe help those people that are listening. Why exactly are we making such a big deal out of man buns and long hair?

04:19

Is it just like a preference thing? Maybe most Christians just don't like man buns and long hair, or is there more to it than that?

04:30

What's the thinking behind this? Sure, yeah. In the Bible, you have a series of passages which directly speak to issues related to clothing and then related to hair length in general.

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So you have some direct passages in the Bible that seek to address that. So there's passages like that.

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So in particular, I'm thinking of 1 Corinthians 11. 1 Corinthians 11 .14

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says, Does not nature itself teach that if a man wears hair long, it is a disgrace for him?

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So that's in Paul's letters in the New Testament. And then the Old Covenant Law basically says,

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For whoever does these things, which is to wear a garment, like if you're a man wearing a garment pertaining to a woman or a woman wearing a garment pertaining to a man, says whoever does these things is an abomination to the

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Lord. Because of these abominations, the Lord your God is driving them out before you. And so it seems like in both

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Testaments, those are just proof texts, basically, which indicate that God has some sort of issue with a man wearing clothing in particular.

05:38

And I think that would just very naturally extend to hairstyles pertaining to a woman.

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And then just that long hair itself seems to be an issue. So you have direct passages like that, which are addressing that kind of thing.

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And then you have a lot of examples in the Scriptures that would also speak into this kind of subject. So it's not just two passages like that, that you're trying to deal with.

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It's just the consistent example of Scripture that has a lot to say to that too. So you have the passages itself, which are relevant for our consideration related to even the types of clothing we wear and the hairstyles we have and everything else.

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But then I think there's a logic in the Bible as to why

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God is saying something like that. Meaning you can just look at the command and say, hey, well, that just seems pretty arbitrary and everything else.

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But then you could ask the follow -up question, well, why is God commenting on those sorts of things?

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And isn't He more interested in the heart than the externals and everything else? And so part of what you do is just you need to interpret the passages which are relevant.

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And then you need to essentially think through God's motivation in giving those passages and how that all applies.

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And then we're living in a society right now who basically are so far removed from that kind of worldview that it just seems confusing.

07:02

It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. But where do you want to go with it as far as that goes? Yeah, I guess just with that last thing, obviously you said basically we live in a culture that's kind of really far removed from all that.

07:16

And I even remember, maybe you remember this too, but I read that specific passage, 1

07:25

Corinthians 11, verse 14. And I remember going to you and basically asking, is this really saying that men can't have long hair?

07:38

That seems kind of crazy and just not a way that we think in our society.

07:47

And I'm sure probably most people who don't have an issue with long hair, they might look at a verse like that and either just throw it out altogether, basically saying, ah, well, who knows what that's supposed to mean?

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Move on. Or be tempted to say, hey, anyone who actually tries to enforce a verse like this is just being legalistic.

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So when it comes to that verse specifically, is this just like a, hey, look, that was then, this is now kind of thing?

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Maybe in their culture it wasn't really widely accepted. But then in our culture, it seems more and more like it is widely accepted for a man to have long hair and that be normal.

08:42

So are we just being legalistic with our application of what this verse seems to be saying from Paul?

08:52

Yes. Legalism in common parlance is any serious attempts to obey the

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Bible. Particularly where it's controversial.

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So I would say under that definition of legalistic, I guess we are. If that's what it means.

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You're giving everybody ammunition, Tim. Yeah. Call me a legalist if trying to obey the

09:18

Bible means I'm a legalist. So sure, yeah. No, I think the liberals are very adept at playing this kind of game with the scriptures in general where they basically just look at a passage and say, hey, that's time bound, culturally relative, and we know better now.

09:36

And that can be done in kind of a crude form where the logic of the liberal project is essentially, it ends up with people basically just saying that Jesus was a bigoted first century

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Jew, man of his own time kind of thing. And we know better now today than they did then, and the

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Bible's filled with a lot of cultural prejudices that we now find to be monstrous and everything else.

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And so the liberals are adept at playing that game. And one of the things that's amazing to me is that when you get to passages like this, conservative

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Christians, there's a few passages where this kind of impulse shows up with the conservatives. So conservatives, there's a lot of people who believe in gender roles and believe that abortion is wrong and everything else.

10:27

But there's a few passages like this, and this is one of those, where we just sound like crazed liberals at this point, and we're just saying the same kind of thing that they say, and that's always concerning in terms of just whatever you do, you don't want to use the same kind of trite arguments as a liberal would do.

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We'll do the same thing with capital punishment laws in the Old Testament and things like that, the angular passages, the things that the conservatives don't know what to do with, or corporal punishment of children.

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We just sound very much like that, and I think that's always a dangerous place to be. So whatever it is that you're doing, even if you're arguing that there's some kind of time -bound application or something along those lines, one of the things that I think you want to make it very clear is that you want to point people to what obedience looks like, even in that kind of arrangement.

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And we're not doing a very good job of basically doing that, even if there's an area where we wonder, was that a unique cultural application?

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But we're not doing the work of showing, well, what is the right application today kind of thing. And so what it feels like is that we very much are doing the

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Thomas Jefferson approach to the Bible, where you just cut out the parts you don't like, and that should be troubling. I think that kind of posture, we have to do something better with it, as far as that gets concerned.

11:57

But maybe you can repeat the question you're getting at now. Yeah, so I think you answered the first part of it, just mainly being, essentially, is this verse just kind of like a culturally -motivated saying that Paul is giving that maybe it applies to the

12:16

Corinthian church, but then it doesn't necessarily apply in the same way for us? Yeah, well,

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I think the reason why, what's happened is, and feminism is the culprit here, as it is with so many things.

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And as I've said in one of the shorter podcasts we've done, when I'm criticizing feminism,

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I'm not criticizing women. I'm criticizing an ideology, essentially, that both women and men share.

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And the basic idea of feminism is basically to blur any distinctions between male and female.

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So one of the things that happens is you're living in a society that is so pervasively dominated by feminism, essentially.

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And that whole project, basically, it doesn't see any difference between male and female in terms of their ontology or God's purposes or God's design for them.

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And so when you're living in a society like that, that sees no functional difference between male and female, as far as that goes, we don't even notice the obvious biological differences, very much, as far as that goes.

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But we're trying to blur the line. Basically, a woman is just, in our society, a better man. That's the way it works.

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But there's no difference between male and female in terms of their function, God's purposes for them. A woman can do anything a man can do, and better.

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But when you go that route, then we're at a passage right now that is pointing to a clear, creational difference that Paul is grounding in nature itself.

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Essentially, Paul's argument in this passage is that if a woman has long hair, verse 15, it is for her glory, for her hair is given to her for a covering.

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So a woman's long hair is meant to be a mark of beauty for a woman, and it's meant to be something that is praiseworthy for her.

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But then nature itself, Paul is saying, is teaching that if a man wears long hair, it is a disgrace to him.

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So what's happening there is that the Bible is giving a very clear difference in the purpose between a man and a woman, and how just something as simple as a hairstyle can either reflect the creative purpose

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God has for a woman, or it can be a source of disgrace based on nature.

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And this is why you can't just wave your hand and dismiss this as some sort of cultural relic, because there's an argument that's being made from nature, meaning

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God's design. God's design for men and women has some relevance to hairstyles, is the point.

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And now because we don't think in those terms that there's any difference between God's design for men and women, what that means is you look at a passage like this and you just don't know what to do with it, because functionally you're trained to think men and women are essentially the same kind of thing, just maybe with a little bit different parts.

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But then functionally, a woman can do anything a man can do, probably better, and that kind of thing.

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And so we're basically designed for the same purpose, we don't know the difference, and so then these things just appear completely baffling.

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But then God does have a purpose. There's a reason, based on the way God created us and made us as to why long hair on a man is disgraceful and short hair on a woman is disgraceful, it's based on His design for men and women, which is fundamentally not the same design, and He doesn't have the same purposes in mind, if that makes sense.

15:44

And just to clarify something that you had said earlier, when it comes to this passage, the enforcing of it, it's not legalism to hold men and women to these standards in general, any more than it's legalism to say, hey, we need to be loving the

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Lord our God and we need to be loving our neighbor as ourself, right? Well sure, yeah, and over and over and over again you can read the

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Gospel of John and the Epistles of John and you hear that, what does it mean to love God? If you love me, you will keep

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His commandments, and His commandments are not burdensome. I mean, you just look up, keep His commandments in the

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Bible and you're going to get a lot of references that are connected to love God. If you say you love God and you don't keep

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His commandments, you're a liar and the truth is not in Him. So whatever it means to say Jesus is Lord, means to follow

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His commands and follow His purposes and follow His design for the world and not fight it. And that's one of the things, the problem that we're living in in our society right now is we've rejected

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God's design for humanity at every conceivable way. And the man buns on the men is just a symptom of a like a metastasized rebellion which is ultimately signaling the fall of whatever

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Western civilization stood for. I mean, it was basically founded on a Judeo -Christian worldview that we're trying to chuck, you know, toss over the side of the boat as fast as we possibly can.

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But maybe it'd be helpful just to say, explain what I mean. So basically what I'm trying to say is that this passage in 1

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Corinthians 11, the reason why we have a hard time with this is because we don't have any understanding of the difference between men and women in terms of their design by God.

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And so then it just feels like it's just a purely arbitrary thing and, oh, it must have just been a cultural relic and, you know, a prejudice they had at the time.

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And, you know, maybe we don't share that. Maybe it wasn't really a big deal and we don't really understand the significance of it. And that's the problem, right?

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So, but then if you say, well, what is God's design? And this is where it gets really offensive. And so God's designed women to be pretty and God has designed men to be strong.

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That's the point, okay? So then, like, that's not all that God has designed women to do.

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And people go there with it when I say something like that. And that's mostly just because of listening comprehension problems, as far as that goes.

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But I don't understand why, you know, people do that kind of thing. It's just, it's kind of a childish thing that reflects poor listening skills.

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But what I said was God has designed women to be beautiful or pretty and God's designed men to be strong.

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And so, you know, Paul's frequent admonition to men is to be strong, to act like men. And that's because that's a created feature.

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The woman is described as a weaker vessel. And, you know, one of man's jobs is to protect his woman because men are significantly stronger than women.

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That's the way things work. Just, you know, every single athletic competition in the world would bear witness to that brute reality, as far as that goes.

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But then, you know, you look at, like, just read through the Bible and one of the things that you're going to find is that over and over and over again, women are described in the

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Bible as being beautiful. It's one of the main adjectives to describe women. And it's a pretty interesting thing.

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If you pay attention to it, if you have eyes to see and, you know, ears to hear, just read through the scriptures and notice how many times that the divine author comments, you know, does the ghastly thing, you know, exposes these women in the passage to the male gaze of objectifying them based on their looks, you know.

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But, I mean, it's amazing, you know. You think about it, like Sarah was described as beautiful. She was so beautiful that Abraham was afraid for his life.

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Yeah, yeah. The same thing with Isaac, you know, with Rebecca. Rebecca was, you know, so beautiful that he was scared.

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He was scared also. You know, Jacob's wives,

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Rachel and Leah, Rachel was beautiful in form and appearance, meaning she had a great body and she had a nice face, you know.

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That's what it's saying. And then, you know, Leah, her eyes were delicate or weak. She had pretty eyes, you know. But then you think through the whole, like, just read through the

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Song of Songs, and one of the things you're going to find reading through the Song of Songs is that over and over and over again, like 50 times, like the woman's described as –

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I'm just making up a number on the spot, but it's a lot. But, I mean, it's just beautiful. You're beautiful among women.

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You're the fairest among all women. Your neck is like a tower. Even in those descriptions, he says beautiful over and over again, even in the tower.

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Might be lost on our modern readers. Hair is like a flock of goats.

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Yeah. This might be more akin to insults in our day.

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I saw a picture of that one time that wasn't lovely. But, yeah, we've lost the symbolism.

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But the thing, though, is, like, over and over and over again, women are described as being beautiful. And then you get to 1

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Peter, and it's just like women are told, hey, don't let your beauty be merely external, but also work on the character of a heart.

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Because, you know, as the Proverbs say, you can put a gold ring in a pig's snout, and a bad character doesn't help anything, right?

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And so, like, the thing is, like, every little girl, every little girl wants to be pretty.

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And every little – I'm speaking in generalities here, but, I mean, every little girl wants to be pretty, and every little boy wants to be strong.

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And that's the way it works. That's the way it works. And that's the way God's designed them to do, and there's no way you can break it.

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Now, like, some women just, like, throw their hands up in the air and say, hey, you know, maybe I'm never going to live up to this, you know, subjective standard of beauty, whatever, you know, that men have.

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And, you know, I don't just exist here for men. And then they, you know, pursue feminism and try to make themselves as revolting to look at as they possibly can.

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But then that's a rejection of something that – like, that just proves the point. You get what

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I'm saying? Like, it's just – like, that's just proven the point. God's designed women to be beautiful, and He's designed men to be strong.

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And, like, a man can do the same kind of thing and just, you know, I'm never going to be this manly man, whatever else. And so He, you know, pursues effemacy with all

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He has. But then the point remains the same. And so then, like, if that's true just in terms of God's design of things, this is just part of why this is not just arbitrary.

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If that's true as far as God's design for men and women, it's fundamentally different. Which is obvious because men are looking for women who are attractive.

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And women are – you know, if you live – if the zombie apocalypse is right there, you know, like, a woman's going to want a strong man.

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She's not going to want the pansy effeminate guy with the long hair and who cries, you know, when he gets to the next round of the singing competition.

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You know, she doesn't want that guy to protect her from the zombie horde. You know, she wants someone else, you know.

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And so, like, women value different things than men because God's made us differently as far as that goes.

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And women – how many times have you seen, like, the beautiful girl married to the questionable -looking guy, you know?

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It's like, how did he pull that off? It's like, he has a lot of other things. Like, he has a lot of charisma and confidence.

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And, you know, he doesn't know that he should be embarrassed of his appearance, you know. But – as far as that goes.

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But, I mean, it's just women are looking for different things than men. And the psychologists, the sociologists would tell you. You know, it's just God's world.

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It's how it's designed. And so, just to – let me just say one more thing.

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And then we'll – just related to that. You know, have you ever noticed girls fight? Have I ever noticed them fight?

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Have you ever watched videos online or at school, remember? Like, girls fighting with each other.

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Where they're, like, clawing at each other and everything? Clawing at each other and grabbing their hair.

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I mean, it's just gruesome, right? I mean, it's just awful to look at. But then the thing is, it's just like – now, think about those girl catfights that are happening with all the scratching and the pulling of the hair.

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You know, you can picture those videos of the one girl on top of the other pulling her hair and kicking her and everything else. And it's just awful to look at.

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But, like, the thing is, long hair is like a liability in combat. Okay.

24:11

So, does not nature itself teach that long hair is like a shameful thing for men? Well, because men are designed for different things.

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So, think about, like – think about the way the world actually works. There's evil in the world that needs to be stopped.

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And you grow your hair out long, you're going to end up like that. That's why no UFC fighter has long hair. That's why no boxer has long hair.

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That's why – like, there's an example of Absalom having long hair in the Bible, right?

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And people will often say, well, I guess that means long hair is okay, right? Well, the problem was, like, narratives, they show you theology, they don't tell you theology in the same way.

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Meaning, like, what was the moral of the story with Absalom's hair? Well, do you remember what happened to him when he died?

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Tell us. He got his hair caught in a tree, and he was, you know, he was being chased by David's men.

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And he, you know, he has this thick, long, luxurious hair or whatever. He's riding off. His hair is so thick, it gets caught in a tree, and he's hanging there.

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And one of David's men comes up and, you know, spears him to death. And so, like, but that just – like, that's the thing.

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Like, that's – like, men are made for a different purpose and made for a different design than women.

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And so nature does, like, teach, like, in terms of, like, people's function in the world.

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Like, there are things. Like, that's a liability when it comes to – you don't want some big, long -flung mane if you're going to war, right, with other people.

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You don't want that. Like, you don't. Like, that's going to give your enemy an advantage.

25:45

But then, you know, men, like, typically lose their hair too, and they can't hold on to it in the same way. Or a lot of men do lose their hair and everything else.

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Nature itself even teaches that, you know, women – like, men and women are different, you know.

25:59

And, you know, like, long hair in women has been a universal symbol of femininity since time began because this is

26:07

God's world and this is how He made us. And so, anyways, there's just some thoughts on that. There's a lot more that could be said related to that too.

26:15

So if I could just kind of summarize real quick. Essentially, the reason

26:21

Paul is writing against long hair is because basically for a man to have long hair is essentially to reject the design that God had for him as a male.

26:38

Is that fair to say? Yeah, I've given some kind of, like, creational reasons why that's not just a purely arbitrary thing related to the biblical passages and everything else.

26:56

But then there's something – like, you're talking about rejecting of the design that God has for you.

27:01

There's something – let me – so, I remember when – let me give you an example about how it's a rejection.

27:09

So one of the things that's happening is it's, like, functionally it's practically doesn't fit the design

27:15

God has for men to be strong, women to be beautiful. But then, like, if a man wears long hair, one of the things that's happening there is he's signaling in a very overt – like, he's doing something that is fundamentally rejecting

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God's design for him in a way that – there are a lot of examples like that.

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So when, like, men started wearing their sister's pants, you know, I remember growing up, all of a sudden that became a trend.

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And when I was in my early college, like, guys would start wearing their sister's pants, and all of a sudden the skinny jeans came after that.

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But when men did that, they were basically fundamentally going to war against God's creation of male and female.

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So in the beginning, he made them male and female. God has designed men and women to be fundamentally different.

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And when you do that kind of thing, when you wear a garment pertaining to a woman, what you're doing is you're rejecting, like, these creational differences.

28:09

You're trying to intentionally blur those lines. And so when the guys did that, you know, you roll your eyes at it.

28:15

You think, how in the world can you even fit in those things? Like, what's wrong with you? You know, so, like, there's an eye roll.

28:21

You're kind of emasculating yourself. But I remember when Hillary Clinton came on the scene, like, as a politician, she was doing something very similar to that.

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And I remember, you know, even as a pagan, this stood out to me as being something, abomination about it, immoral about it.

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And, you know, she came on the scene wearing the pantsuit, right? And now every female politician wears the pantsuit and everything else.

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And what they're doing is something very, like, specific. And you know what they're doing. Like, what they're doing is they're basically trying to, you know, instead of wearing the dresses and all that, like, you know, old

28:57

Barbara Bush did. Like, one of the things that you find is, like, they're trying to present themselves as a man because there is an intentional effort to blur gender roles.

29:07

Does that make sense? And so when God says, like, don't, like, it's an abomination for, you know, people to wear clothes of the opposite sex.

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The point there is that, like, what you're doing is you're rejecting His design for you. You're rejecting roles.

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Like, your clothing, your hairstyles, they're saying something about, you know, how, like, your willingness to follow

29:30

God's purposes in that way. And so, and these are symbols that are designed to do that kind of thing, if that makes sense.

29:39

Yeah. So, it's essentially, yeah, that rejecting of God's design for men and women.

29:49

So, I guess, maybe help us out a little bit here.

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You know, obviously, it's one thing to say, all right, if you've got long hair, then you're breaking this command.

30:06

You're essentially, you know, like I said earlier, rejecting

30:12

God's design for men and women. But then it doesn't necessarily define how long is long hair.

30:23

So, what are we supposed to do with that? I mean, it's a pretty serious thing to reject

30:30

God's design for you. But then it's also hard to know, just based on a passage like this, exactly where is that point where you ventured from just, you know, a thick, full head of hair to now all of a sudden woman's hair, right?

30:50

So, how exactly are we supposed to know how long is too long? Yeah. Well, let me,

30:58

I'll answer that in two ways. I'll talk about how long is too long and then talk about the rejection.

31:04

Because I don't, with the rejection, I don't know that there's, in every case, you know, someone has long hair in particular.

31:11

I don't know that there's some kind of intentional rejection of God's design in that it's knowledgeable.

31:20

But I would say that functionally, you're living in a world that is trying to reject that. And so then these trends kind of become popular, if that makes sense.

31:28

Kind of as like a, like they're popular because they're rebellious in people's minds.

31:35

Right, right. Yeah, and everyone knows, you know, you see a guy in a man bun, that's edgy, right? And what edgy means is it's just like you're essentially, you're doing something that's suspect, you know.

31:47

Now it's just like, now are we just purely tossing off, you know, arbitrary cultural relic of Western civilization?

31:56

Or is it something like that is more than that, right?

32:02

And so is it just, is it something more significant? But I would say everyone who's doing that, it doesn't necessarily have some intentional overt rejection of God's purposes in mind.

32:12

But, you know, we need to talk about that. So like, how do we process that too?

32:18

But then related to the how long is too long kind of discussion.

32:26

Tell us, preferably in inches. In inches, yeah. Yeah, I mean,

32:32

I always hate those kind of questions because those kind of questions are kind of like, you know, how far can we go, you know, as a couple.

32:41

You know, it's like, well, I mean, I think you want to, my kids do this all the time. It's just like, I, you know,

32:46

I tell them, hey, don't get on the stage, you know. And so then they decide to, like at church or whatever, don't get on the stage.

32:52

And then they'll try to, instead of getting on the stage, they'll jump on the steps right next to the stage. They were doing that this week and it's just like, come on, you know, like, and then, you know, then it's like, then they're going to jump on the steps on the stage.

33:06

And then accidentally fall on the stage and be like, oh, it was an accident, you know, it's just like, well, yeah. I mean, you know, if you stay away from the stage period, you won't even have to worry about that.

33:14

I'll tell them, don't, don't go on the road. And they'll stand like, right, two inches from the road, you know, and then like put their head over, you know, it's just like, you know, that's just human nature wanting to get up on the line as far as that goes.

33:27

And I think, I think, yeah, I, I would say that,

33:32

I don't know. I mean, it's helpful.

33:40

I mean, I would say like in the extreme, I mean, it's like, these things are just easier to, you know, you have someone with weight, waist length hair, you know what you're talking about, you know.

33:48

And I think, you know, what you're talking about way before that, you know, I think, you know, what you're talking about way before that, like in terms of like where we're at, you know,

33:56

I think my grandpa used to preach on this kind of thing. And he, he was, he had a little bit of legalistic tendencies where he was, you know, he,

34:08

I think he defined it as anything below the ears. But I don't want to say that.

34:15

But I would say that, I would say that I think, you know, I think we all know, like, I think everyone knows, you know, for the most part, what we're talking about.

34:26

And like, I think we're kind of playing dumb if we don't, you know, like, I think we all kind of intuitively know.

34:34

I think whenever you're at that point where you're looking at a person from the back and you don't know what you're looking at, necessarily.

34:42

So I think if you want to know a good test for where the line is, like, if you just imagine yourself sitting behind someone in church.

34:51

And all you can see is maybe their neck, neck and slight bit of shoulders hanging over the chair and you're unsure, you know.

35:02

That's, that's what it is. That's too far. We've, we've gone to, we've gone into effeminate territory.

35:08

If you know, if you don't know, if you don't know what you're looking at from behind necessarily, you know.

35:13

Now, some guys can, like, the problem is some guys are so like, you know,

35:19

Cobra back and everything else that it's just like, you know what you're looking at, you know, like, you know.

35:25

And so, but then I would say just picture a more narrow shouldered guy.

35:32

I would say picture a more narrow shouldered kind of guy who without a whole lot of muscle kind of guy, whatever the line is for him would probably be the line for everyone.

35:42

Does that make sense? Yeah. Or if he can do like the, the messy bun trend or something that's going around, that might be like the.

35:50

All right. I don't know exactly where the line is, but this has got to be past it somehow. It's the same thing with, you know, and I've often noticed this with women, like, like, and I would try to give the same example.

36:02

Like often it's like, well, how do you know when something is immodest for a woman? Right. Well, the problem is that there are like women who are curvier than others.

36:09

Right. But then I, I, what, what generally happens is like with the women who are curvier than others, they get a lot more critiques on their immodesty.

36:18

But then, you know, you could like picture, you know, pixie boyish girl, body type wearing the same kind of scandalous, immodest thing.

36:26

But no one cares because it's just like you have a different body type and it doesn't, you get, you understand what I'm saying? Yeah. So, but then the thing is, it's just like whatever would be risque for the curvier girl as often is going to be risque for the more pixie girl kind of thing.

36:43

You know what I'm saying? Like boyish girl. Like it's just, and I would say the same thing along this lines is like the issue is not what, the issue is not can you identify this as a man?

36:54

The issue is like we're just zero in on the hair itself. When, when does it become confusing?

37:01

And I think we all know, you know, with it. So I don't know that I'm going to pull my tape measure out and try to tell you, but I think we all know, you know, that.

37:09

Would it be easier if we measured in cubits like the Bible normally measures things or? No one knows what that even measurement is.

37:18

All right. So not easier. Not easier. Yeah. Okay. Now here's the thing though.

37:24

I mean, I think here's part of why it's subject, part of why people react. Okay. And part is, is because like, there's one of the things that's happened and let me just let me have one more monologue here just to explain.

37:39

You have the floor. Yes. Yes. Just one more. Here's what's happening. So like, one of the things to realize is that Christians by and large, we're being trained by the world to have a very narrow view of communication.

37:55

That's pretty irrational. So I could, you know, if you were to, what's something that your wife made recently food.

38:04

Sorry, say that again. Tell me, tell me a meal your wife made recently. She made gumbo the other night.

38:11

All right. So if you were to come up, go up to your wife and say, Hey, you know what, what's for dinner tonight? And she said, gumbo.

38:17

And you said, Oh, gumbo again. What would she assume?

38:25

I guess he doesn't want gumbo. Now, but like, if you were to pull out your dictionary, right.

38:32

And say, Hey, honey, like, you know, Oh, gumbo again. What's the problem.

38:37

Right. Why would you conclude from,

38:43

Oh, gumbo again, that I didn't like your gumbo. It's not what you said. It's how you said it.

38:48

Okay. All right. So, but then like that tells you, that tells you something, doesn't it?

38:54

Like, I mean, that tells you something about how communication actually works is more to it than just the words. Right.

39:00

But then, like, if you think about how we communicate, we communicate in a lot of different ways.

39:05

And so, I mean, just, you know, don't actually picture this, you know, but just picture some, you know, meth girl.

39:12

You can, you can, because it won't cause you to stumble this way. Just picture some sort of meth girl standing on the street corner, you know, wearing a dress that's way too short and, you know, winking at you subjectively and everything else.

39:26

What would you assume is happening there as you pull up to the red light? This lady's a prostitute.

39:32

Okay. Now, but if she looked at you and said, how dare you objectify me, you know. What would your response be?

39:38

I would just, I guess, just throw my hands up in the air and say, I don't know anything anymore then. So, but like, and part of the rules of the game are, is essentially, like, you have this kind of play that's being run across the board.

39:53

Now, this feels like it's changing the subject, but it's not. Like, you have this play that's being run across the board in our culture, in our society where, you know, like, just to take women, for example, they'll dress provocatively, and then if anyone noticed, then they're mortally offended.

40:04

You know, how dare you objectify me and everything else. It's like, well, the problem is you're sending mixed signals here, right? Like, what do you want to happen here, right?

40:13

So, you're dressing in such a way as to attract interest. And then, you know, if a man in the workplace shows you interest, then you're mortally offended if he didn't happen to be the kind of guy you're wanting to show interest to you.

40:25

But you're advertising. That's what you're doing. You know, like, you're dressing in such a way that is communicating certain things, right?

40:31

And so, like, if a man walks around, and we do this all the time, you know, like, the opposite way with men.

40:37

So, if a man walks around, he talks with a lisp, and then, like, he, you know, has his wrist pointed up in a limp -wristed kind of form, you know, and he kind of presses around and everything else.

40:52

Everyone knows what you're communicating with that. Everyone knows, right? I mean, everyone knows that you're communicating that you're open to same -sex relationships.

41:00

But then, if anyone calls him on it, what happens? It's like, well, you don't know that, right? You don't know that.

41:05

How do you know that? He may just be feminine, you know, and everything else. It's like, well, he's flagging that he's a homosexual. Why shouldn't we just believe what he's saying, right?

41:13

So, why is it more charitable to assume he's not when he's acting like one, right? But then, like, you're living in a kind of society right now, if you make certain assumptions along those lines, like, if you do that kind of thing, then, like, there's always this plausible deniability.

41:34

And you have a society that's backing you that basically just says, hey, who knows what they're saying, right? Who knows?

41:40

You don't know. You don't know. You don't know what the girl's trying to say. You don't know what the sodomite is trying to say.

41:46

And I would just say, well, okay. But, like, we used to know that there's different ways to communicate and that our communication says a lot.

41:54

That's what we used to know. And so, as it relates to things like this, like, one of the things that's happening is, you know, if you want to communicate to the world that you're feminine, then what do you do?

42:05

You wear a sign of femininity on your head, right? You put your – you grow your hair out and everyone would say, hey, you know, he has girl hair, you know?

42:16

And then you put it in a bun. It's a girl hairstyle. And so what you're doing is you're sending a bunch of mixed signals, right?

42:21

That's what you're doing. But then the problem is you're living in a kind of society right now that basically says we're not allowed to notice.

42:27

And so I think that there's a lot of people who are caught up in the delusion and then they don't even know what they're doing. Does that make sense?

42:34

So it may not be a conscious kind of – it may not be a conscious, knowledgeable rejection of God's design for them that they're engaging in.

42:44

But that's exactly what Satan is doing at every single level. And the more that we do this, you know, you train men to be feminine in all their character traits and, you know, in their dress.

42:55

I mean, you just think about all the shows that are on TV. You know, you can't even watch like a singing show or something like that without seeing that at every single point, effeminacy in men is being, like, thrown in your face.

43:07

And then at every single point, masculinity in women is being praised at every single point. And this is just symptomatic of this larger project to get men to dress like women, to take their hairstyles as women, to talk like women, to act like women, to cry like women.

43:23

It's just a larger cultural project that's happening. And then it's to get women to reject femininity at every single point and to look like men, to dress like men, to, you know, be strong like men.

43:37

And that's why, you know, what is the primary thing that we tell women to encourage them now?

43:43

Well, you're a strong, powerful woman, right? It's just like, oh, come on, cut it. You know, cut it out.

43:49

Like, why are we doing this? You know, women are – men have two and a half times upper body strength as women.

43:55

What are we even talking about? Like, go sell crazy somewhere else, you know? But, like, that's not rational, you know?

44:03

But then, like, what's happening – so what I'm trying to say is there's different ways we communicate. And when you adopt a symbol of femininity on your head, essentially you're communicating something with that.

44:13

And, you know, if we call you on it, then at the very least you're sending mixed signals.

44:20

And I would just say you shouldn't be so indignant about it. Like, you're like the street walker on the side of the corner who's looking the part, dressing the part, acting the part.

44:29

And if someone comes along and says, hey, you know, how much, you know, then – and obviously a

44:35

Christian shouldn't do that. But you understand the metaphor. You can't – you'll forgive them for making that kind of assumption in the very least.

44:46

You should, you know, if you were sane. But – so that's part of what's going on. So as part of what you're saying, essentially there might be out there

44:55

Christians who are perpetuating this idea that long hair on men should actually be okay.

45:04

But then if they actually had all this explained to them, they would realize, oh, hey,

45:12

I don't need to keep my hair like this anymore. But because we live in a society that essentially wants to attack masculinity and femininity at every turn, you know, it's no surprise that even

45:30

Christians – and not only they attack it, but then the church isn't necessarily really ever talking about this.

45:38

I don't know that I've ever heard anyone talk about this subject, which is why when

45:44

I read the passage, I came to you and I was like, is this for real basically? Well, and it's so contrary to egalitarianism, right?

45:52

Right, right. Which is the air we breathe essentially. I mean that's what we're breathing.

45:58

So kind of in the same vein as with our discussion with Conley Owens, where he was basically saying, hey, look, there's a lot of faithful guys out there who are in violation of this principle that I'm setting forth that I see in Scripture.

46:16

Now, I don't want to go out and say all of a sudden all these really faithful guys are now false teachers, but then at the same time that doesn't excuse the sin that's happening there.

46:28

But then, you know, it makes sense that there's so many people violating it because nobody's really talking about this.

46:36

In the same way with the long hair discussion, there's probably Christians out there who have long hair, but then they've just never been shown any of this stuff and they've never really been trained to think this way.

46:48

So they don't even realize that when they have long hair that there's any sort of command or creational design that they're violating.

46:59

Is that kind of what you're saying? Sure, yeah. I think that we all have a conscience in us that we suppress.

47:15

And there's within all of us a desire at times to be edgy or to be provocative or to push boundaries.

47:25

That's just symptomatic of the human condition.

47:30

I can imagine different types of people in this kind of discussion to where you let your hair grow and you let it grow and it keeps on growing.

47:43

I can imagine a kind of person who feels a little bit internally like, oh, is this all right?

47:51

But then they go with it and they go with it. And they're kind of silencing that kind of voice that was there a little bit kind of thing.

47:59

And then after a little bit, it's just like, okay, they've successfully seared all that.

48:09

But I would say, yes, I think that kind of reaction might be, I think your standard red blooded

48:17

American male who's wearing your sister's pants kind of thing. The pioneers of that project definitely knew what they were doing, right?

48:27

Yeah. They knew what they were doing much more than people coming along afterwards and basically just like, now you have skinny jeans, which are not exactly the same as a style.

48:42

And something might be totally different with that than the other thing. But then what

48:48

I mean is I just think that there's people along the spectrum, like the pioneers are probably much more aware and then like the people who are just kind of caught up in it.

48:56

I would say that we don't have a framework of how men and women are different at this point. And so as our society is rapidly decaying at every single level, strange things have happened.

49:06

And so my dad, just to give you an example, my dad growing up, he told me, stand up straight with your shoulders back, right?

49:13

He told me walk like a man, act like a man, talk like a man. He told me these things and he applied it very specifically to the things.

49:25

He taught me the kind of things that if I ever ended up in prison, I wouldn't be easy prey.

49:43

You get what I'm saying? He taught me those kind of things to where you don't want to signal with the weight.

49:52

My dad taught me how to walk. He taught me how to walk in a way that didn't appear weak, okay?

50:02

And so it didn't just signal weakness. So he taught me how to stand, how to sit, how to walk, how to be assertive.

50:11

He taught me those kind of things. But then part of what's happening when feminism entrenches itself in a society like it has right now and all these things are blurred, you have society at every single level praising femininity and encouraging men to embrace it wholeheartedly.

50:27

But then someone like Jordan Peterson comes along and says, hey, stand up straight with your shoulders back, right? And everyone's like, whoa, profound wisdom, right?

50:36

Like make your bed, you know, whoa, profound wisdom. But it's like that's the stuff my dad taught me. And he's being a dad to people who have basically been trained to be women, right?

50:44

But then the thing is, it's just like these are just basic, like he's not a

50:50

Christian coming up with that. He's just basically as a psychologist, a behavioral psychologist looking around and saying these are the things that constitute success.

50:58

If you want people to take you seriously, you don't simper around, right, and cry at every minute.

51:04

And you dress in a way that commands success. You walk in a way that commands attention.

51:12

You talk. You do those kind of things. But then we're wired in such a way that when a woman sees those kind of things, she's typically attracted to that.

51:20

She's not going to be attracted to the guy who's slouching and with the poor posture and who looks weak and everything else.

51:28

And so like the thing is like those things are there and those things are real. And so I think that there's a lot of people in our society right now who like they just haven't had a dad come along and tell them like stand up straight with your shoulders back and everything else.

51:43

And so then, you know, for them, like they're living in a society that's brainwashing them, like the way to be popular, the way to be successful, the way to is to be weak, right?

51:53

And so they're pursuing weakness with their dress, with their hair, with their posture, with everything they have.

51:59

They're pursuing that. Then they don't have a lot of success with women. Right. And then what happens is it's just like, well, what do you think is the next step?

52:08

But then, like, you know, Satan's plan is obviously to make men like to make men unattractive to women.

52:14

And like that weak, pansy, spineless kind of man is not going to be attracted to the vast majority of women. But then, like, you know, the feminist who, like, you know, burns her bra and cuts her hair short and refused to wear makeup and lets her, you know, armpit hair grow.

52:29

It wears the earth tones, you know, like colors that wash her out, you know, even though she doesn't have the right complexion for that kind of thing.

52:37

Like that kind of girl is attractive to no one. Right. And so fundamentally what this project is doing is making men and women revolting to each other, essentially.

52:47

And no one's allowed to say the obvious. So I think that there's the point there is I just think that there's a lot of people who are like they don't have like they have no one to tell them how to survive in prison.

53:01

You know, assuming they get thrown in there for the sake of the gospel. But they don't have anyone to tell them how to, you know, my dad told me how to pursue women.

53:11

My dad told me how to walk, how to talk, how to, you know, that kind of stuff. And like, you know, and I appreciate that.

53:17

You know, he taught me just what it means to be a man. But then all those things right now are just viewed as, you know, that's just these, you know, archaic stereotypes and, you know, cultural pressure.

53:29

And it's just like, no, I think that there's something legitimate. So I think that there's a lot of people who are caught up in it and don't know.

53:35

They don't have the framework to understand even like why that this is just like out of left field.

53:43

Like, what are we even talking about? Because there's so many assumptions that are not shared between them and the actual biblical view of the world.

53:50

Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. And I think kind of going back to that verse in 1

53:55

Corinthians 11, you know, chapter 11, verse 14 does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair, it is a disgrace for him.

54:06

I know I've seen plenty of guys who don't have long hair on top of their head, but then they'll have the crazy bike biker gang beard.

54:19

Now, Paul is, he's not being specific in this passage in terms of what hair is long.

54:28

So, you know, so is having the long beard the same difference as having a long or, you know, long,

54:40

I guess this is like a weird way of saying, I don't know if this is the right way to say it, but like a long head full of hair.

54:47

Yeah. I think in the passage over and over again, you hear like, it's a head covering passage.

54:54

And so it's essentially saying that woman's hair is her head covering and it's designed by God to be a covering of her head.

54:59

And, you know, a man doesn't need to have that long hair as a head covering because that would be a sign of shame.

55:05

But then that's a very, it's one of those questions that does really cause you to teach, to think through the issue of nature and what nature is teaching at that point.

55:14

And so like the idea of a beard, a beard has always been a sign of masculinity since the beginning of time.

55:22

And so, like, you know, like everyone knows that if you, if you see a man, like, let's just be honest, like if you see a man with a full beard, what is the immediate adjective that comes to your mind?

55:34

He's obviously more manly than a guy without a beard with a baby face.

55:40

Right. Right. Right. And because it's obvious, like what happens, like what does nature teaching at that point? When do men grow their beards, right?

55:48

When they're men. When they're men, you know, like what distinguishes the men from the boys is the beard, you know?

55:54

And, and so like the thing, a thing about that, I mean, that's always been the case and that's been the case since time began.

56:00

I mean, you know, you just think about, you know, some silly movie like how to train a dragon or something like that.

56:05

And, you know, hiccups, lack of beard is a profound source of shame to his father,

56:11

Stoick the Vast, you know, like, but notice what's happening there. Like, you know, like that's a project to undermine traditional masculinity, isn't it?

56:20

Like the whole project, you know, but, but then like the thing is like the, the, the beard has always been a sign of masculinity because that's what nature teaches, because that's what distinguishes a man from a woman.

56:32

That's what makes a man a man. And if, and, and, and everyone also knows that beards aren't designed for beauty.

56:37

Okay. Definitely not. They're not. So now what's happened though is like. Could you imagine seeing a woman with a full beard?

56:44

A woman with a full beard with bows in it and everything else. Oh, a French braid.

56:51

So, but the thing is, so, but you're living in a society that basically, you know, if you want to get ahead in the world and be a CEO of a corporation and everything else and like the, you're encouraged to be feminine, right?

57:01

And so we're trying to praise the men for cutting off their beards and, and everything else. But then that's the thing that distinguishes the man from the woman, as far as that goes.

57:10

And then there's like a story in the Bible where like the men had their beard shaved and they, and it was such a shame to them that they wouldn't go see

57:20

King, see King David or whatever until their beards were regrown. And it's just like, we're so far from that.

57:28

But then the issue is like, you can look at it and say, oh, well, that's weird. But it's like, no, that's like nature teaching, like something that we've minimized to such a degree at this point in this society that we just, we've lost the lesson as far as that goes.

57:43

And so like, so like the beard is what distinguishes the man from the woman. And you're living in a society that praises femininity.

57:50

It does, and it rejects masculinity. And that's obviously a sign of that. I mean, it obviously is. I mean, no one can argue that, like, that's exactly what's going on.

57:58

Like, you might not like the implications of it, but you know what's happening. You know that we are living in a society that wants like men to be as girly as possible, which is why you have like, you know, even 15 years ago, whenever Pirates of the

58:13

Caribbean came out, Johnny Depp, you know, with the long hair and the eyeliner, right? Like we're doing everything we can to, you know, to fix the problems, you know what

58:22

I'm saying? To basically blur those lines, blur those distinctions, you know.

58:28

But the thing is, I mean, I think the standard, you know, the standard, you know, blue collar worker in flyover territory or whatever knows that like, ooh, that's weird.

58:39

Man bun, that's, you know, that's sissy and that's girly and that's weird and pansy.

58:44

And, you know, every, you know, every society has had like those kind of words where it's like, hey, you take too much care of your hair and all the men in the room go, you know, like that's a dandy or, you know, that's a sissy or that's like, oh,

59:05

I don't know. I don't know. That's not good, you know. And so everyone, you know, everyone has that.

59:12

There's always been, again, that kind of intuition in general, but. Okay. So my follow up question with that, then we've established beards are manly.

59:22

Sure. Yep. So let's say hypothetically someone were to have a really long manly beard and they paired it with a man bun.

59:35

Does the beard cancel out the man bun in that equation? Yeah.

59:41

I mean, it's, oh man, I don't know how to, I don't know how to, I mean, it's like, you know, it's the same thing as taking like a very attractive woman and putting a beard on her.

01:00:00

What would everyone think? That's disgusting. Okay. So like, did that mitigate it?

01:00:07

You know, I mean, did it mitigate it? You know, like everyone would think, oh man, like you, you're sending, like, what's happening is you turn it into a caricature at that point.

01:00:16

Right. You're sending mixed signals is what you're doing. The lower half of your face is a man's face and the upper half of your face is a woman's face.

01:00:27

Is that what you're saying? Right. I mean, and just do it in the, in the reverse. And it's just like, everyone knows, like, it's just like what you've done is you've created a parody essentially, as far as that goes.

01:00:39

So, so like the thing is though, like we pile those things up at every level. So you like, there are different ways that you can communicate femininity.

01:00:49

Right. So you can communicate femininity through your walk, through your manner of speech, through just a lack of emotional control where you cry and everything else, like for no reason.

01:01:00

And you're always weeping and like, like all the male singers on singer shows who are just like, you can do that through like overly, like just trying to intentionally pursue singing as high as you possibly can and songs and everything else.

01:01:14

You can do that through like your hair. You can do that with the kind of clothes that you wear.

01:01:20

Like, and so the more that you, you know, I think that there's plenty of things like that, that should.

01:01:26

Like, if you're sensitive to the game that's being run on you, like if you're aware of what's happening, that you're living in a society that's trying to make you a female and detestable to most women.

01:01:36

Right. Then you should like, you just have to have your eyes open. You have to ask, what are the ways that this is happening?

01:01:42

How is this game being run on me? But the more, the more that you do it, like there might be thing.

01:01:48

I mean, I could just tell you something silly. I mean, you know, the V -neck kind of shirt phenomenon and men.

01:01:56

You know, honestly, I have, I bought, um, I think my wife maybe bought me a

01:02:02

V -neck shirt at some point and it wasn't like a plunging V -neck. It wasn't one of those ones that goes all the way down to your belly button.

01:02:10

No, no. They make those by the way. It was a modest, it was a modest one, but then

01:02:17

I would tell you that. A gentle V. It was a more of a squared off V, you know, but then every time

01:02:27

I wore that, I was just like, man, I just, I can't do it. Can't do it. Can't do it. You know, and I tried to wear it, you know, and I maybe got to wear it about 10 times and I was like,

01:02:37

I'm done. I can't, I can't do it anymore. You know, but that's just the kind of thing that someone does who's sensitive to the project.

01:02:43

And so, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, you start multiplying those things, it becomes more and more and more significant to where, you know, but then, yeah.

01:02:51

So, the beard, the short of it though is, no, I don't think the beard mitigates it. That math doesn't work out, does it?

01:02:58

No, no, no. Well, it doesn't work the opposite way and everyone knows it, you know. Yeah, that would be gross.

01:03:05

You know. Ladies, don't try and grow a beard. You're a Miss America kind of woman with a mustache and you're just like, everyone's like, no, no, no.

01:03:14

You definitely are losing that pageant if you go out there with a mustache. You took away with your left hand what you gave with your right, you know.

01:03:21

It's just like, no, no, no, don't, just stop, you know. Yeah, yeah. No, no, that makes sense.

01:03:27

And just to clarify, too, for those of you listening, Tim and I, we are definitely not in violation of this command that Paul is giving.

01:03:40

We don't have any video up where you can see us, but I promise you, our hair is about as short as it gets.

01:03:48

Yeah, it fell out, yeah, mine started going, so. Well, I didn't want to say that yours was going because I didn't want to get mauled by any bears tonight.

01:04:01

Hey, you got to be careful, you know. Be careful with that, you know. We may call the she bears on you. The she bears,

01:04:07

I don't feel like getting mauled. One other question that I have,

01:04:13

I've talked a lot about for the guy who has long hair, essentially what he's doing, whether he realizes it or not, is he's rejecting the design that God had for him in creation.

01:04:29

He's rejecting that design from God as a man. Another aspect that you brought up was this idea of culture and how culture views what is masculine and what's feminine.

01:04:47

Some examples of that would just be Japanese culture or Native American culture where it seems like it was actually a manly thing to have long hair.

01:05:01

You see all the pictures and the paintings and the movies of Japanese samurai, for example, and they literally have man buns before man buns were cool kind of thing.

01:05:20

If you're living in that kind of culture, does that change the command at all that you get from Paul?

01:05:28

If you're the Japanese Christian reading 1 Corinthians, is this command applying to you in a different way because your culture legitimately views long hair as an actual masculine trait?

01:05:46

I think there's two things that you want to think about as it relates to that. I think in general, one of the things that you want to do is you want to say, hey, what are the symbols of masculinity in our society and what are the symbols of femininity?

01:06:00

Then be very cautious about mixing those kind of things. Obviously, at a certain point in history, everyone wore robes, right?

01:06:08

Right. Now, men wear pants and women wear dresses.

01:06:14

You can go the Steven Anderson route and say, well, Jesus didn't wear a dress, he wore a suit and tie.

01:06:21

Or like the emperor's new groove, it's not a dress, it's a robe.

01:06:28

It's a robe. The thing is, part of knowing the language of every culture is that you should understand what communicates femininity and what communicates masculinity in every kind of society that you live in.

01:06:44

When the women's liberation movement happened and everything else, post -World

01:06:50

War II and all that, women started wearing pants and then women started wearing pantsuits.

01:06:56

There was a reaction to that at the time that women don't wear dresses anymore, right?

01:07:03

You don't want to wear a garment pertaining to man pants or that. Now it's become normalized and now they don't communicate maybe the same thing anymore.

01:07:10

But I think most men would look back and say, hey, we appreciated it more when there was sharper distinctions in dress than what there are now.

01:07:20

Any guy is going to love when their wife wears a dress, that kind of thing, despite what anyone is allowed to actually say.

01:07:28

So I think whatever society you live in, those symbols might change as it relates to clothing to some degree.

01:07:34

But you shouldn't be the one who is basically trying to walk the bleeding edge of fashion blindly wherever it goes.

01:07:42

You should understand what you're chucking. So part of it is, yes,

01:07:47

I think there are things in every society that are going to communicate in certain ways. But then the problem is that societies are not neutral.

01:07:55

Because of multiculturalism, one of the things that's happened essentially is that we're told we have to uncritically praise every single culture.

01:08:04

Period. Okay? So every culture must be praised. You must view it in a positive, favorable lens.

01:08:10

But this is part of how the question is coming about. Are man buns a signal of the decline of the West or whatever?

01:08:16

Part of the thing to say is, yes, Western civilization was built on a Christian foundation.

01:08:22

And it's that foundation that we're trying to chuck. And the huge cornerstone of that foundation is, in the beginning,

01:08:27

God made them male and female. And they're different, right? So, I mean, you can go into a cannibalistic tribal situation where they're all naked savages running around trying to kill you and eat you.

01:08:40

And you have to be able to say, well, that's a bad culture, right? Like, if the gospel is going to shape that culture, you're going to come into that kind of culture.

01:08:49

And you're going to teach them to put on clothes. And that's not just some Western imperialist who are basically imposing their values on the pagans.

01:08:58

That's Christianity coming to reform the paganism of the tribal people.

01:09:07

Does that make sense? And so, when you think about cultures like the Native American culture,

01:09:14

American Indian culture, or whatever. You think about that kind of culture or Japanese Samurai culture. One of the things to realize is that I've had missionary friends who have gone to Japan.

01:09:25

And they'll tell me that there is superstition and mysticism over there. And demons are active and alive there in a way that's just abnormal in the

01:09:35

States, as far as that goes. And I would say that science did not arise from an

01:09:40

Eastern worldview that was built with this superstition. With all the distinctions between order and chaos.

01:09:48

And the tribalism and everything else. And spiritism and animism and all that.

01:09:55

Science didn't arise from that kind of worldview. And so, it's no shock to me that if you have a worldview that's fundamentally hostile.

01:10:03

And you don't have to treat it with kid gloves as if it's absolutely neutral and there's nothing going on. That they would mix up these fundamental things that the

01:10:11

West was able to distinguish between. Does that make sense? I mean, my goodness,

01:10:16

Native Americans came and scalped their enemies. Yeah, I don't want to live in that society.

01:10:22

I mean, you think about some of the stuff that was happening with child sacrifice in South America and everything else.

01:10:28

And you think about what's actually happening among Native American culture.

01:10:35

I mean, they were tribes that were committing genocide against each other. We're taught to view them as if they were just these peaceful people that basically had a neutral culture and we can't criticize it.

01:10:50

But if you're looking at it from a Christian worldview, you would say, hey, they don't have the light of the gospel.

01:10:55

It might be that they get a lot of things fundamentally wrong. It may be that they're doing the same kinds of things that our society is trying to do right now.

01:11:05

And God says that if a man wears a garment of a woman, that's an abomination to him. That's an abomination.

01:11:11

And he says these are the things that the nations were doing that you're going to drive out.

01:11:16

I'm coming in judgment because they're blurring gender lines at every single conceivable level.

01:11:21

And it seems to me without having to adopt some kind of simplistic manifest destiny or something like that kind of framework.

01:11:32

I think that God has often come in judgment of pagan nations who are doing that kind of thing.

01:11:38

And the light of the gospel has come to basically drive certain inhabitants of the land out.

01:11:43

Now, I'm not trying to say that American conquest of the Spanish Inquisition or something.

01:11:53

I'm not trying to say that everything that happened to get us from the conquistadors coming over and the pilgrims coming over and everything else.

01:12:02

There's a lot of different types of people coming over for different reasons. And I'm not trying to say that everything with the conquistadors and everything else is great and the

01:12:10

Trail of Tears and everything. I'm not trying to say that's great. But there's obviously some insights that Western civilization got from the scriptures and the distinctions between male and female that were good.

01:12:21

And now we're tossing them over the edge of the boat at every single level essentially. Just because these pagans conceived of long hair and men as a good thing is no evidence in of itself that these things are purely neutral.

01:12:43

I'm going to go with Paul. I'm going to say maybe Paul knows what he's talking about and go with that more than I'm going to lean on multiculturalism and everything else.

01:12:51

So essentially the long and short of it is culture should not be the primary thing informing us when it comes to what's masculine and what's feminine because cultures aren't inherently neutral.

01:13:09

And so it's much safer to just default to what the

01:13:16

Bible says and say, hey, you know what? I want to honor the Lord and I want to do whatever. I want to put myself in a position that will honor him.

01:13:25

And so I'm just going to all right. Paul says short hair. You know what? I wear short hair because I fear the

01:13:32

Lord. Well, and I think if you were to add up the sum total of all cultures around the world, you know, one of the things that you would probably find like throughout all time that women have always wanted to be pretty and men have always wanted to be strong.

01:13:45

And everyone has known since the beginning of time long hair is like a sign of femininity and there's no way to erase it.

01:13:52

And you might have an outlier here or there, but the outlier doesn't prove the general rule, which is obviously what nature is teaching.

01:13:59

Does that make sense? Yeah, I think that's a good stopping point for us on this episode.

01:14:06

So hopefully this has been an encouraging topic for you. And we hope you guys who are listening really think through what we're saying.

01:14:13

I remember when I first read this passage wondering how in the world is this supposed to be an actual command?

01:14:23

But then now I'm just, I'm just totally convinced of it, you know, after, after more study and, and, um, and getting

01:14:30

Tim getting to talk to you a lot about it and getting a lot of clarification on sort of the underlying assumptions that are supporting this command.

01:14:39

And so hopefully this is helpful for you guys. And so we want to thank you guys for listening and we look forward to having you on the next episode.

01:14:48

This has been another episode of Bible bashed. We hope you have been encouraged and blessed through our discussion.

01:14:54

We thank you for all your support and ask you to continue to like and subscribe to Bible bashed and share our podcast with your friends and on social media.

01:15:03

Please reach out to us with your questions, pushback and potential topics for us to discuss in future episodes at Bible bashed podcast at gmail .com.

01:15:14

Now go boldly and obey the truth in the midst of a biblically illiterate world who will be perpetually offended by your every move.