September 20, 2019 Show with Dr. Norman De Jong on “Esther: The God Who Is Silent Is Still Sovereign”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown, Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. Who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Friday on this 20th day of September 2019 and I'm thrilled to have on the program at the request of reformed fellowship a Brother who I have not yet interviewed who I am really looking forward to interviewing.

His name is dr Norman de Young, although if you look him up on the internet, it would be spelled as if you were pronouncing it de Jong de.

New word.

J-o-n-g Norman de Young and we are gonna be discussing his book Esther the God who is silent is still sovereign and Dr. De Young has served as professor of Christian education at Dork College and Trinity College and is an ordained minister in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and author of numerous books and his latest book on Esther Which is a reformed fellowship Bible study is our discussion today.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the first time ever to iron sharpens iron radio Norman de Young.

Thank you very much. Happy to be with you. It's great to be with you, too.

Dr. De Young and let me give our our listeners our email address right away in the event that they have questions for us. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris A-r-n-z-e-n-a gmail .com.

As always, please give us at least your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Before we go into the theme of your book Esther the God who is silent is still sovereign. We have a tradition here on iron trip from Zion radio whenever we have a first-time guest. We would like you to give a summary of your salvation testimony.

Which would include the kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in if any and what providential? Circumstances our Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you.

Well that covers a bit of ground. I can refer back to the time when I was in grade school the eighth grade graduate. I was asked to give a little speech as a Valedictorian and I at that point in my life already Was firmly convinced that I was a believer that I belonged to Jesus Christ.

I was raised in a very strong positive Christian home. My parents my grandparents my descendants for a long ways down we're all believers and I continued that I wanted already at that time in my life to become a minister of the gospel.

Wow, a lot of things happened in between some of which were interesting some of which were.

Unusual.

But it wasn't until I was 58 years old. I had been a professor at Trinity Christian College for 13 years a variety of circumstances. Convinced me that it was time to go off to seminary and become a pastor.

Wow, that's kind of late in life. Yes. All right. I was older than all my professors. Wow, you sound like my friend pastor Tony Vega. Do you know pastor Vega? No, no, I don't. Oh, yeah, he entered into the ministry older in life.

He is a PCA Pastor of these days and also Who comes to mind a brother who is with the Lord right now? I'm sorry. I said Tony Vega. His name is Lou Vega. Apologize apologies to Lou Vega for calling you Tony.

Okay, Lou Vega is from Cuban descent. In fact his family fled Castro's communist Cuba right before it became Overwhelmingly dangerous and deadly.

And.

The other brother that I was mentioning who is with the Lord now Orthodox Presbyterian pastor, dr. Robert J. Cameron. I don't know if you ever knew or met or Dr. Cameron at the time, I don't know how many African-american pastors the Orthodox Presbyterian Church has now, but he was one of only two I believe when he Switched from the PCA to the OPC and He entered into the ministry originally in the Reformed Episcopal Church when he was an older man in his late 40s, I believe maybe early 50s, he had owned a trucking business and.

He.

Believed the Lord was calling him to enter into the ministry and that's what he did. But I'm sorry that I I Sidetracked your own testimony. So forgive me for that.

Well going back from the time that I graduated from college I had really focused on becoming a Christian school teacher. I had been raised in Christian schools. My family tradition was solidly for Christian schools and.

I.

Felt called to become a school administrator and then a professor training teachers. So I was privileged to write some books in the truth teaching for a change which are still in.

Print.

And which are translated into other languages. So I felt I was doing Something good in the kingdom. But I was also always leading Bible studies. Earliest time I wanted to get into the scriptures and understand what God's Word was saying.

So I had been leading Bible studies in teaching young people and It was natural for me then to finally say All right, the Lord has opened the door so I can actually go off to seminary and it's a long strange route.

But I'm very comfortable with it. I will praise God.

Reformed Fellowship, the Book of Esther, and the Question of Canonical Status

Well, I'm going to read an endorsement From H David Scheringa Who is the Christian Renewal magazine contributor and North Star ministry? consultant. He is Or should I say he has written a really powerful Commendation for your book.

Dr. Norm de Young does it again and his venerable experience as a professor and minister continues to shine through. He continues to shine through in this compact study of Esther Debunking popular ideas about the book.

He skillfully guides the reader through an Esther specific literary theological analysis yet comparing scripture with scripture that uncovers true and creative insights. His engaging prose arouses irresistible curiosity as to the suspense purpose and meaning of this unique book of the Bible.

One that contains no direct reference to God but distinctively proclaims good news. The young reveals such not only with respect to the unexpected and surprising workings of Divine providence for God's people in dark captivity back then But also for the church living in a pitch-black culture on this side of the cross discussion what discussion questions follow each chapter to facilitate a readers or groups mindful processing and Heartfelt appropriation of each movement in this enthralling episode of redemptive history.

That's quite a powerful endorsement.

David.

He was for a long time the director of crossroads prison ministries. He's very Knowledgeable. I really appreciate very much that kind of an endorsement.

Well, you well you mentioned a prison ministry, let me just take a quick moment to announce to our listeners Something that they might find fascinating.

On.

Monday October 7th. I'm actually for the very first time ever interviewing a prison inmate from his prison cell or from a Room somewhere in the prison. He is spending a life sentence for murder and he was in a cult when he was participating in that murder and Is now a born-again Christian and not only that.

While in prison he earned his doctorate in theology. So his name is Ron Luff. He has written a book called faith gone astray in reference to the cult that he once belonged to. But since you just mentioned that prison ministry that just popped into my head.

And I thought that might be interesting to some of our listeners.

Well, I have been involved in prison ministry one way or another Since 1987 and I have encountered a number of very very godly people In prisons who are just being transformed by the Word of God. Amen.

And it is such a tremendous mission field. God works in mysterious ways sometimes but. Back in March of this year I had opportunity to give a lecture in a prison in Florida because one of the prisoners there had been reading my Esther book and had made some contacts so that I was invited and the number of men that showed up there for that lecture was just Amazing and they were the most godly men I had met in a long time.

Beautiful beautiful ministry. Wow, praise God. And by the way, I want you to Explain to our listeners what Reformed Fellowship is or who Reformed Fellowship is.

Well.

Reformed Fellowship goes back to 1951. And if you have at all Familiarity with the Christian Reformed denomination. Yes. Oh I was raised in that so was my wife. So was my whole family.

But in.

1950s early 1950s there was a controversy brewing especially at the seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan and there were two strains or two sides competing with each other. There was a progressive or liberal side that published the Reformed Journal.

But there was also a conservative side that said no. We can't go that way. We have to stick to the text of Scripture and that was the group that is Reformed Fellowship so since 1951 they have been Defending the biblical faith and hoping that the church would stay true to it.

Yes.

It's a tragedy to see what happened to the Christian Reformed denomination. Although there are or is is a better way of phrasing it. There is a remnant of Biblically faithful folks there in ministry and in congregations who are members and My friend dr. Joel Niederhood who's been a guest on this program.

Was or is a holdout? He's holding on fast remaining in that denomination, but many have gone into other Denominations due to the liberalism that seems to have overwhelmed the denomination although not completely as I said.

And many have joined the United Reformed Church of North America and other denominations is is Reformed Fellowship still within the CRC.

Not really they are. Not a denominational organization there. What you would call parachurch? They published the Outlook magazine. They are member some of them are members of the United Reformed. Some of them are the solid Christian Reformed people who are staying in the denomination and Sort of fighting to preserve it.

There are others who are Orthodox Presbyterian. I've been writing for them now for about four years every issue and I've been Orthodox Presbyterian along with a number of others, so it cuts across denominational lines, but it's committed to.

Biblical interpretation. Well before I forget a friend of yours sends his greetings pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church Square. Well he was thrilled to hear that I was interviewing you today.

And he said please send my regards to Norman de Young and he refers to you as a delightful brother.

Well, thank you bill. I know him well, but you mentioned Joel Nader hood. Joel Nader hood is a godly man that I have had a wonderful relationship with. Ever since I became pastor in the OP in fact I we were able to start a new congregation in Portland Park, Illinois and Whenever I had to be gone I would call Joel and ask if he could possibly fill the pulpit and he did a number of times.

What a gifted brother. Yes, yes, and by the way Bill Shishko's specific phrase for you is that you are a gem. Well we thank the Lord for Bill Shishko and his new Church plant that he is overseeing that it is called the Haven in Deer Park Long Island, New York, and it is under the oversight of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church denomination and specifically the Bohemia Orthodox Presbyterian Church, and they sponsor this program and they Are a client of mine actually for a program of their own that bill hosts a visit to the pastor's study so oh I am quite thrilled and blessed by my longtime friendship with Pastor Bill Shishko that goes back to the 1980s When he was a fairly new pastor at the Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Franklin Square, Long Island.

Yes well this book Esther is a controversial book and Even as David Scheringa mentions by the way am I pronouncing his name correctly Scheringa Scheringa was he as he even said that you debunk Myths or ideas false ideas about this book.

Why was it first of all? Your mission to write a book on Esther. Oh.

Simply because the Reformed Fellowship Board asked me I had done a series for them in the magazine of The Outlook on Ezra about a year in a couple of months and then They said why don't you follow that right up with Nehemiah?

Well, okay. Sure. I had never done Nehemiah, but I enjoyed that and Produced another series of articles for them. We got finished with that and they said well Why don't you go right on and do Esther next books in the Bible?

Excuse me. I don't really know anything about Esther. I'll have to do some research and get back to you so I Spent quite a bit of time to prayer. Quite a bit of time trying to figure out. How do I approach that book?

Knowing that Martin Luther said it doesn't belong in the Bible. You ought to get rid of it. I Read through it. So I finally said, all right, give me time and I will put together a Proposal as to how I want to approach it.

And they said, all right. So the first chapter in the book, which is the introduction is really my proposal to their board and I started out there by saying Esther is a part of the Old Testament. It's part of the Word of God if it's God's Word it's true and it has a very specific purpose for being there.

Esther is also an historical book you have to treat it as I had my background my College major in history. My doctorate was in history historian. I Said I have to figure out where this book fits. When I started doing a chronology, I found out, you know, Esther doesn't follow Nehemiah.

It comes Before Ezra and it comes immediately after the book of Daniel. Chronologically you have to place it. The Bible isn't organized. The Old Testament especially is not organized chronologically so I Approached it that way and I said, okay, I need to construct the chronology that takes me all the way.

Time of Isaiah who's prophesying about Cyrus? Take that and put it all the way through the time of Ezra Nehemiah Once I presented that to them to the board. They said that sounds very good full speed I'd be lighted with the book once I got into it.

Praise God.

Well, can you can you tell us there are a wide range of people who listen to I interpret Zion radio. There are probably the majority judging by at least the correspondence. I receive the majority would be studious reformed Christians and even pastors and even Seminary professors and so on but there are Not only brand-new believers there are people who I would Guess are unregenerate, but the Lord is drawing them.

There are people in other religions outside of Christianity. We have Muslims that occasionally contact me. There are members of Groups that we would call cults that sometimes contact me Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox and a wide range of people outside of the Christian faith, so Let's try to be as clear as possible about some of the things that Christians might take for granted or basics like for instance, could you start with who was Esther and Why was she such a prominent figure that we have this book in the canon?

Called the book of Esther.

Well, this may sound strange But Esther is a crooked stick That God uses to. There are who think of Esther as this beautiful ravishingly beautiful Queen of Persia who saves God's people from extermination.

If you're going to understand Esther You have to see it against the background of the book of Daniel. I Had studied Daniel for a number of times. I presented Bible studies I would guess maybe eight ten times to different church groups.

Daniel is a favorite of mine because it's so clearly and so powerfully Brings the message of God's sovereignty. God's sovereignty comes all through the book of Daniel and Daniel and his friends are truly God-fearing young men.

They're units they've been castrated to serve in Nebuchadnezzar's Empire but they will not do anything to violate God's law and Then God deals with them in such marvelous ways.

God.

Presents through the book of Daniel a number of appearances of the pre-incarnate Christ. He shows up there in Nebuchadnezzar's dream as the rock cut out of the mountain not by human hands. He shows there in the fiery furnace as he shows up many times.

So the book of Daniel is very Messianic.

Now.

That is the book immediately preceding chronologically preceding the time of Esther and Then you have to see Esther against that backdrop and you see Tremendous contrast. Esther is completely Contrasted with the book of Daniel.

There is no reference to God. There is no time for prayer. There is no sign of repentance. There is a totally secular picture. You can read the book of Esther as though it were a secular and some people do.

They're fascinated by this beautiful woman and they make all kinds of stories about. This beauty book of Esther must have pictures of Jesus Christ in it. Let's find it and then they fabricate pictures Resemblance to it.

Then I say okay. Why is this book in the Bible? What is there about? Esther makes it important. God obviously had. And then I start asking that question. No other book of the Bible Makes any reference to it about all of those things and yet it sits there the book of Esther sits like a sore thumb Just waiting to be analyzed.

I'm hoping that Give an honest and we do have a listener.

Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania who asks is One of the reasons that Esther was Doubted to be truly divinely inspired.

That there is no mention directly of God himself in the book something that is by the way, we have another listener.

Oh before I forget Susan Margaret you've won a free copy of Esther the God who is silent is still sovereign. I love that subtitle, by the way. That is probably the best subtitle of a book that I've ever seen in print.

But.

Make sure we have your full mailing address so that CV BBS Cumberland violet Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV BBS comm So that they can ship it out to you and we want to thank again reformed Fellowship Inc for providing us with these three copies and We have a listener CJ and Lindenhurst Long Island, New York.

Who asks. I hope this is not too far afield from what you are discussing today but I Wanted to respond to what you just said about the Orthodox Jews hating the book of Daniel. Is it true or is it just folklore or urban legend that Orthodox Jews do not read Isaiah? 53 in the synagogue, I'm totally ignorant.

Okay, well we thank you CJ for that question and of course since it's a messianic prophecy People have said that the Jews try to Do a lot of Eisegesis in order to make it not point to Christ. But I'll have to do some further investigation myself.

I have heard that myself, but I don't know 100 if it's true or not CJ Excuse me. So you're getting a free copy of the book as well. So make sure we have your full mailing address we're going to our first break right now and If anybody else has a question, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and as always please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with more of Norman de Young and the book of Esther.

I'm pastor Bill Shishko host of a visit to the pastor's study and I am so thankful to be part of the advertising Family right here on iron sharpens iron. If you live on Long Island, or if you're visiting the metropolitan New York area I invite you to join us for worship at the Haven on Sundays at 4 30 p .m.

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That's nine zero eight nine nine six. Seven six five four. Tell pastor done that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on iron sharpens iron radio. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in our guest today on iron sharpens iron Radio for the full two hours with a little less than an hour to go is dr Norman de Young and we are discussing his book Esther.

The God who is silent is still sovereign. And Before I go to a listener question, we just have greetings to you dr. De Young.

From.

Myron Rao the president of reformed fellowship or president of the reformed fellowship board and Myron Rao says thanks to dr. De Young for so nicely explaining what reformed fellowship is. We much appreciate our relationship with dr De Young and how the Lord continues to use him even in his advanced years.

So thank you very much Myron for a wonderful tribute to our guests today.

We.

Have.

Grady from Asheboro, North Carolina, who was One of the most loyal listeners to our interpreters on radio and a very generous contributor to this program financially Grady asks Who is credited for writing Esther about what time period in Jewish history?

Was it written? Well the.

Authorship of st. Augustine living around came to the conclusion that Ezra was the author of Esther and part of the reason he came to that conclusion is because the books of first and second chronicles at the same time period and include a lot of information that corroborates what Esther is about.

And then the writing style in Corinth and First and second chronicles is also very similar to that in Esther and I Have a strong hunch is living at about the very same time as Esther. The same is true for Nehemiah.

So they are writing during the time around 450 years before Christ.

The.

People of God the Jews are no longer under Babylonian captivity. They are now living in the Persian Empire and the Persian Empire goes from 539 BC up until about 330 BC when the Greeks take over. So in that period of time Ezra is a very skillful historian.

He's also one of the best Bible teachers and he is writing about all the events but in his own book. In the book of Ezra. He never once mentioned that. Even though he lived during the time of Esther's reign.

He knew Mordecai well. He knew all about Haman and about Purim.

So.

It's a mystery, but I'm inclined to believe that Ezra is the author of Esther. But don't put too much money on it.

Our Orthodox Presbyterians permitted to gamble. We have we have a listener. In Cork Ireland, we have Mary in Cork, Ireland. Who has a question or series of questions have to enlarge the font of her email because it is very microscopic.

Okay, it says Hello brothers isn't it interesting first of all how Haman is a descendant of the Malachites and Mordecai a descendant of Saul and so the same old conflict arises once again as I can see.

As I can see that although God's name is not mentioned in the book of Esther his Fingerprints are seen all over it. I have learned that God has strategically placed this book in the canon between two exiles the first in 538 BC and Ezra's return 458 BC as.

After the book of Malachi there will be 400 years of silence. Where there will be no direct word from God until John the Baptist will announce the coming of the Lamb of God. Therefore God by an act of his mercy and grace is preparing them for this time of silence.

It will be a time of persecution where the Jews will be attacked the temple desecrated and the empires will resist and oppose them but the people will have the scriptures and Be able to look back and remember this time of history and see how God was there all the time with his people moving behind the scenes.

They will recall God's providential acts in Esther while they wait for the next message to be given it will be it will give them assurance that God will protect them as his as He is greater than any Empire and despite all opposition.

He will save them. They will be able to take great encouragement from the book of Esther. Sorry, if this is very long, but what are your thoughts on this. Sounds like Mary could write her own commentary on Esther.

Mary has it very straight and she has a good chronology. There is at the very same time as Nehemiah Nehemiah is sent to Jerusalem by Artaxerxes in order to rebuild the city and to Repopulate the city.

Malachi comes there in a real sense as a critical or a prosecuting attorney and. Saying you people you're really not worshiping God the way you want to. And I'm warning you the Messiah is coming and he's going to come like a fuller's soul he's going to come with.

Great deal of difficulty for you. You have to shape up. So, you know, Mary has it straight.

I appreciate very much her comments. I have no criticism of it. My only criticism is I think Mary's showing off. Just kidding Mary that was very insightful and quite brilliant. And perhaps you should write your own commentary.

One other thing I would add to Mary the idea of God's sovereignty Runs all through history. It comes through so powerfully in the book of Daniel and then immediately after it. It seems as though it's not on the surface.

But God's hand is there in every one of these events. I marvel and Mary might probably knows this too that the casting of the prayer Is controlled by God in such a way that it matches up almost perfectly.