Social Justice Cancel Culture: Alive and Well in the PCA

We are live now in the conversations that matter podcast. I'm your host John Harris. I'm sorry. It's 10 minutes late. I Am having some issues with my computer. I got to figure this out because the last few days it keeps freezing on me and I don't know why so it froze on me right as I was about to start and So that's what happened.

So pray that it doesn't freeze during the live stream so I'll be looking at it, of course later tonight, but With that said we're gonna jump right into it. I want to talk about what's going on right now.

In PCA circles, I'm sure that if you are a member of the Presbyterian Church in America and you're active online on social media and you're in chat groups all those private chat groups I'm sure are a buzz right now with a lot of things.

David French, Cancel Culture, and the PCA General Assembly

But one of the things is this Attempt to I think it's smear smeared that Garris who's been on the podcast before and in fact we had him on I want to say a Month or two ago and we were talking a little bit about this whole David French thing.

So I'm gonna give I'm gonna start from the beginning. We're gonna start at the David French stuff but then I'm gonna get to the current attempt to more or less cancels at Garris pastors at Garris and It should be good.

I think it's gonna be a good podcast. It is not the podcast I was expecting to do today. I was gonna do a news roundup I have a number of things saved up that I wanted to talk about from various denominations and just Christian news and we'll get to that next week at this point because I thought you know I really want to talk about this.

This is important and and Zach has been a good friend as far as I mean I don't I don't live in the same state as him. I don't see him in person I think I met him twice in person. But as far as Just I mean even the book I have it sitting here somewhere There it is even my books Christianity and social justice acts the one that published that and I asked him to do it and Didn't really give him a very long window to help me with that and he he was great I mean, he's someone I can call up and ask him about changes if I need to make them and it's just I don't know He's a nice guy and what's happening to him isn't really right and I agree with Jimmy starfish Zach Garris did nothing wrong and not not in an absolute sense because we all have sins, but what they're trying to Get him on isn't isn't wrong.

And that's what I want to talk about today. So we'll go through all of that Let's start. Let's jump into it and just start the story time. Okay, so we'll start the story off with Maybe two months ago There it was announced The PC announced they were going to have a special panel on It was it was on political and social topics and Trying to make sure that I'm trying to remember the name of the the actual panel.

I can't remember the name of it I know I remember the theme of it. It was attempting to de-escalate the Politicalization of the church and David French was one of the panelists who was going to participate in that long story short David French is no.

Well after it was announced and There were some conservatives who were upset about this David French was I? Assume disinvited so it the panel does not exist. It's not going to happen. They're gonna do I think Worship time or so they have some other activity that they're going to do at the PCA General Assembly and To summarize much of this came down to the fact that you know, David French is not It's not just that he's a leftist which I think he's proven at this point that he is and that he's subversive Which yeah, he is.

It's that he left the PCA and him and his wife essentially trashed the PCA.

So.

They've said all kinds of things against the PCA and Then they're invited back and it's not just that he leans left. But he's like really left like he was, you know supported the marriage equality act.

I think that was what it was called and that was like a year ago, right? That wasn't ancient history. He he's the one and it keeps coming up that he talked about How drag queen story hours of a blessing of Liberty?

I mean this guy is way out there and He's not the kind of person that you would normally put on a panel. That's for the PCA as I understand it and that's Why I think it was a good choice to they should have never really had him to begin with but they decided not to have him and You know, of course the thing about this is the left starts screaming cancel culture when this happens, right?

Every time Conservatives get a victory to roll back some even if it's a little bitty victory to try to just roll back a little bit of all the Negative stuff that progressives have infused into our associations denominations and organizations in Christianity.

They're called on the carpet for cancel culture attempts. I remember with Ed Litton. This was a thing, right? You're trying to cancel him by bringing up his plagiarism issues. JD Greer had a big deal about this that Conservatives are just as guilty of cancel culture.

They're cancel culture people, too. And I've tried to explain this before but the term cancel culture. It's like the term woke, right? It's a newer term. It can be used a little loosely, but it was Popularized in a context in which people were losing their jobs their livelihoods the ability to feed their family.

They were trashed with no opportunity for Really any kind of redemption? That's what cancel culture has meant that you're going to bring down the hammer of the regime approved narrative on to those who disapprove of that narrative and Make it so they are outcasts in polite society.

So they cannot participate anymore. They will be on the fringes, right? That's the whole point of cancel culture, it's not just canceling someone from an event it's not just Saying we don't agree with a certain position That someone holds or we don't think they should be in a position of authority Because they disagree with our statement of faith or something like that.

That's not really cancel culture. Cancel culture has an intent to destroy the person it has an intent to prevent that person from having any influence and I would say most of the time even in the future and I think most importantly cancel culture is fused with the arm of state approved and Regime approved so that you know the whole and when I say regime, I'm not talking about just a Biden administration, but we're talking about What's accepted in the media and in academia and other places of influence education?

That the narrative that they seem to be all on board with and they do seem to work in lockstep, don't they? It's using their influence to crush that person, right? Hopefully we're clear on that. Hopefully I don't have to explain it anymore.

Maybe we should do maybe there are pieces on this that have been written. I just haven't read them, but That's what we're talking about. We're talking about cancel culture. So what happened to David French?

Was it was he canceled from an event shirt? Is it cancel culture? Not really. It's more of a recognition that David French doesn't fit here David French by his own words and admission doesn't fit in the PCA and he left because And Zach and I actually talked about this in the podcast him and his wife were saying things like There's there's all these racists and neo-confederates and so forth deplorables in the PCA and so it's not a fit for them.

So, you know, this is the David French that was canceled from an event. This wasn't an attempt to destroy They and it didn't have the effect of destroying David French's Ability to Feed his family to work to operate.

He more than has that ability because he works for he's an op-ed writer from the New York Times, right? I mean, there's really nothing the PCA can do to harm him. Anyway in that sense. There wasn't any bringing a Regime approved narratives down on him because he was in a violation of them somehow in a way that would Make him give him the scarlet letter for years to come.

Nothing like that.

And.

That though is what's happening or starting to happen. Was that Garris right now? And so I'll explain that as the program Unfolds what I'm seeing. So leave your comments leave your questions in The comm box on Twitter or Facebook or YouTube.

Can't do it on rumble but on those three you can and we already have some comments coming in we have Civislee civislee, I don't know minded saying I have a PCA Re and leaving for Georgia on Monday and not only sent a strong letter to Brian Chapel But also made a video about it on my channel I'm not sure if this is Re David French or what Brian Chapel was the one who made the announcement.

David French is no longer coming to the PCA event. David French Ryan buys says was not even charging the PCA. It was simply a single PCA employee who made a very bad decision. And David French was not canceled by the PCA the event was canceled though, that's a good point, too.

I didn't even think about that. So that is true. They David French wasn't singled out and saying well, we're gonna still do this, but David French is out. They actually just canceled the whole event. So that's a really good point that I You know, I some people might not think that makes a huge difference.

I think it kind of does at least Somewhat now maybe that the intention was because of all the controversy surrounding David French, I don't know but Cancel culture is not boycotting. It's targeted harassment campaigns gay ops and docs.

So, yeah, I would say that that is stuff that goes along with cancel culture for sure. It's not just disagreement over something. That's the point. I'm trying to make Okay, a ruling elder ruling elders re I wouldn't serve with that man.

Okay, so a PC ruling elder. Okay, so if you're in the PC, I'd love to hear from you and leave a comment of what you think about what we're gonna Talk about on this particular Podcast so I explained the French thing.

I think in all the detail we need to explain it. It's really it's not the main part of this but I the only reason I'm bringing it up is because a Number of people have told me in the PCA that they think that the left wing of the PCA wants their pound of flesh they're mad that this happened that conservatives were able to rally and get that panel canceled and Now they want to exact some kind of revenge now.

There's no I can't point you to a source on that and I'm not saying that's even necessarily the motivation for everyone on this. I'm just saying this is what I'm hearing from people. I know in the PCA that they think that that's what's motivating.

What's currently happening?

So.

That brings us to this. And I wasn't gonna cover this. I didn't actually think it was big a big deal enough to cover but I'm realizing more and more it probably is so this was June 5th a statement came out from Grimke seminary and the statement to summarize.

Says that they are going to collaborate with people that they don't always necessarily agree with on everything and. That they've done this with a number of institutions. They have a wide number of institutions that they will collaborate with now, you know.

Of course, these are all Christian institutions. And can impress as one of them. So as American reformer, but along with you know. All sorts of other organizations and they're including Christianity today nine marks and the gospel coalition so you got some organizations that I certainly would not partner with that are part of this lineup and.

They say that it doesn't mean that we we don't you know. We put our stamp of approval on the entire organization just because we partnered with them in some way. But we still I think it's okay to partner.

That's basically the statement. I'll just read the last line here this. Let's see here do.

Okay.

Grimke seminary is committed to resisting unnecessary tribalism for the sake of the truth the health of the church and the glory of God and we will continue to serve alongside any church or Organization in service of equipping pastors and leaders for local church ministry.

So that's their stance. Okay, so they take a principled stance now, why do they have to take this stance to begin with? Well, I'm gonna show you a few things. But you might think to yourself. Well, this isn't a lot and I'll just say it doesn't seem like a lot.

There's some social media pressure against them for partnering with a certain organization. Much of the pressure though, isn't. It's like an iceberg you see stuff on Twitter. Sometimes sometimes it might be nothing but sometimes it's there's a lot of phone calls emails and Conversations happening behind the scenes that are Vastly more important than what you're seeing on social media, and I think this is one of those times Remember, they were forced into having to make a statement to defend what they were doing in the organization.

Of course is American Reformer. They were put into a position where they had to defend a partnership with American Reformer. And it's very loose partnership to be quite honest. It comes down to this. At the PCA General Assembly, which is next week American Reformer and Greenpeace Seminary had events and these events coincided with one another and Rather than conflict have conflicting events.

So people had to choose and they made the decision together to share resources to share a space and to share.

The.

Whatever I guess hors d 'oeuvres drinks those kinds of things are. You know, these got these cost money. Right, and they're gonna have a joint reception. It doesn't mean they have any speakers there who are going to address everyone.

It doesn't mean that there's a certain position. They're Promoting or a book or anything other than these two organizations are going to be together in the same place. And you can meet people you can meet faculty from Grimke seminary.

You can meet people that work for American Reformer. That's it. That's all it was. Well Stephen Wolf who wrote the case for Christian nationalism, if you don't know who that is, he is a figure that is.

Somewhat has been considered now controversial in the broader evangelical world. He tweeted out on X that he was going to attend this event or was planning on it. I don't know if he will go but that's what he said.

And This caused I think that's the genesis of the where this thing started. Just his attendance his mere attendance. Became a. Well, I'll show you a few things. Show you a little bit what I'm talking about this at least the publicly available stuff.

So.

Starting here we have Evan Robinson Evan Robinson who is on staff At a PCA Church and he says that Grimke seminary you are making a mistake by including cannon press and American Reformer as trustworthy resources.

They're not trustworthy and They teach things that are contrary to the gospel now as a serious charge by the way, including evil rationales for slavery. Now I want to point out something very very Important in my mind, but you might think it's very small that because they have.

Supposedly and this is allegedly okay, because they allegedly might have a different perspective on Slavery and And I'm not even saying what it is, but they just have a different ethical perspective. They are now teaching things contrary to the gospel.

This is a problem and this is I think the heart of the woke error in Christianity. Is this attempt to fuse? Egalitarian social justice.

Type.

Views with the gospel so that if you deny those egalitarian things in some way. Or those social justice things or you know. You you don't think a certain labor relationship or social arrangement is as bad as a liberal might think it is.

You end up becoming a pariah and not just a pariah because you have an ethical view. But you end up becoming a heretic because you've now denied the gospel and I'm just here to say an ethical disagreement on.

A.

Social issue. And I'm saying a basic ethical ethical disagreement does not automatically make someone a gospel denying heretic now. There could be ethical disagreements. We just talked about David French a little bit where you're denying certain things in the created order and they're very serious actually but you know when you're talking about a different understanding of what the Bible teaches on something the Bible speaks to and You're grappling with what does scripture say about this this ethical thing?

And you're not contradicting the created order. You're not Going against, you know, very fundamental things that God has designed and said are good. But you're trying to understand and apply the to the best of your ability what God actually does say about a social issue.

That doesn't mean that you don't have the gospel. Right, you can still be wrong about something like that too and still have the gospel. The gospel is the good news that Jesus Christ came and took our sins and it's really about his work.

It's not about our works. And so I want to point that out. Maybe I'm belaboring the point but this is a big problem and you have people like this in the denomination who are serving in pastoral capacities and that's a problem and of course, you know, you had people who like this tweet and You know Samuel Perry who contributed to Time magazine and writes against Christian nationalism.

He's in the SPC. He's not in the PCA, but he's a big I would say he's somewhat of a mover and shaker and evangelicalism and of course he likes this which You know just tells me where he's at where his His theology is that if he agrees with this you have a guy named Lamont English who also Liked this and and so I want to talk about Lamont English, especially as we move forward because that's gonna be very key to what's happening with Zach Garris.

But yeah, of course Samuel Perry made his own statement about Grimke seminary partnering with American Reformer to have a joint reception and he said it's pretty clear that what American Reformer gets out of its association with Grimke seminary is Legitimacy the appearance of being mainstream nothing but mere Orthodox Christianity here.

What's more disappointing to think about is what Grimke gets the dying? dynamism of Identitarian populism, so he's just smearing both of them. He's saying Grimke seminary is getting something out of this populist now so bad and American Reformer gets credibility and you know, I Maybe it's worth just saying reminding people the Grimke seminary is named after a slave, right?

Someone who was in slavery at one point and Grimke seminary, I don't know. I just I didn't I I'll say this I'm impressed that they stuck to their guns on this and good for them. I I'm somewhat surprised and I don't know a lot about Grimke seminary.

I'm just not used to seeing this kind of courage and I Just didn't see it happening. So good for them. All right, let's let's just go over a few more of the things that were being said. You have this gentleman Professor Charles, I don't know.

But he said as a concerned presbyter and concerned Richmonder I have a few questions. Does your seminary teach that American slavery was morally permissible? This is where we start getting into the Zack Garis stuff.

Grimké Seminary, American Reformer, and the PCA’s Social Justice Pressure

So Zack Garis had tweeted out that he was going to Grimke seminary for this Event, of course, he's not speaking at the event. He's only Joining so he's already going to the PCA meeting because he is a Presbyterian pastor out in New Mexico and so he's traveling there and He just want this is one of the events.

He's gonna go to while he's there. This is a very standard thing. It doesn't mean that he is necessarily even Like American Reformer wasn't saying we're glad to have Zack Garis here as far as I can tell me Maybe they liked his tweet or something that he just said he's going but he's just an attender.

He's someone that's gonna show up and he's showing up just for American Reformer and Grimke.

And.

Then it becomes well you have someone in the room who has bad views apparently on slavery and So does that mean you must endorse those views? I guess if he's showing up at your meeting and so they want to kind of turn the screw up on Grimke seminary to Disavow to make sure to distance themselves from American Reformer.

And you have David Cassidy who had a whole tweet thread. I'm not gonna read the whole thing but I'll just give to you what I believe the relevant bit is David Cassidy is a PCA pastor of a large PCA Church and He said he believed that it should be sufficient grounds for Grimke to end their partnership with American Reformer in the reception.

Their leaders thought otherwise, however, ironic that the PCA canceled their seminar and treated French shamefully due to objections from those who would support American Reformer and Even some of their most extreme voices including those in the PCA like Zach Garris who hold what might be generously described as a dangerous view on slavery all right, so you have now PCA pastors getting involved in this and.

And someone pointed out I'm glad he pointed out Lance Burkhardt said that Cassidy was a national partnership leader. The national partnership was a left-wing organization within the PCA and I Don't think they exist anymore.

They were it was mostly like an organization that Existed over emails as I understand it, but but this is what and he side be apparently Okay, so he thinks same-sex attraction is not a sin. There you go all right, so so David Cassidy weighs in and He he ties Zach Garris to American Reformer and then ties American Reformer to Grimke seminary.

But David French, I guess, you know that was that was shameful. Canceling the panel that David French was on. I think you're getting a clarifying look Through tweets like this at what's really going on in the PCA, by the way, and this is my Aside that I want to just say.

It really is a battle for power and it's like this in all the denominations and organizations that are fighting social justice. It's a battle for power at the end of the day who's going to control where the money goes who's hired what kind of.

Social.

Stances we take all of that and. In an organization like the PCA as that garris is a threat to the general order. Now they're conservative resistance in the PCA. For the last few years as I've been somewhat paying attention to it seems to be coalesced around the Gospel Reformation Network but what I've seen and I've talked about this on the podcast many times in the Gospel Reformation Network is.

There's some good stuff, but there's also I think a lot of weakness. John Payne who I think he's still running it if I'm not mistaken.

He.

Has in the past just Treated the left with such kid gloves even guys who legitimately are heretics like Scott Sauls. He's treated those guys with such kid gloves and wanting to learn from them and you know.

This is the way your conservative resistance works. It's also the way on the national level the Republicans in Congress tend to work, right? They're not Really a great example of what resistance looks like and they don't seem to be after power.

It's more of I think the understanding is that we're all gentlemen here and you have your turn I'll have my turn and we can get along and Yes, there's problems, but the problems generally are. Abstract we don't talk about the names really behind these problems.

We don't demonize them. We might demonize some positions, but we don't Attach those positions in the strongest terms that we'll use to attack them to the people who are actually promoting them in the organization.

Guy like Zack Garris is different. Zack Garris and there's a few other guys mostly younger guys. I would say that I know of in the PCA are. They understand I think what the battle is really over this is oh, this is power and There really isn't much of a gentleman's agreement that you can have.

With guys that are on the other side. It's it is a political battle and you don't want to think in those terms in a Christian organization and I get it. You don't want to you want to think that you're there for ministry and you should be.

But there is there is a political fight going on and it does mirror the fight that's going on in politics on a national level. So, yeah to take out a guy like Zack Garris, I mean he's he's more of a threat probably.

Long term he's a young guy so he could go places. But he could be more of a threat than even some of the guys in the gospel Reformation Network. The other Paul asks is it possible for Garris to get off the shame train and stand his ground or have too many mainstream church Associations smell blood in the water for him to fully recover.

What some people don't know what we're talking about yet. So I'm about to show you I'll just answer the question briefly by saying I don't think that he is.

I.

Don't think he's necessarily on the shame train. He did issue an apology, which I think I think I have that. If not I'll pull it up but I think. Much of this was for the sake of clarification and it's because of how the PCA works if you bring someone up on charges in the PCA.

Which.

That could potentially happen. Why not? Right? Then they are going to try to find something in the doctrine that You have violated to bring you up on those charges. We saw this with Greg Johnson and how for many years, you know, even people in the.

The.

Conservative wing treated him with such kid gloves it seemed like. But he he was brought up on charges and this it was a battle. It was a mess for years and then he finally just decided to leave himself.

Sometimes the process is the punishment. So if you can put out a clear statement denying whatever the charges are in no uncertain terms then I think it prevents those charges from potentially being brought or If they are brought that they might not be received at the presbytery level.

So that's my. That's my assumption. I think that the statement he put out was More to clarify than it was I I don't think that he's admitting that he was he's wrong about so many of the things that he said.

I know many of you are wondering what I'm talking about. Some of you know, but you know I wanted to answer that question since I saw it and I probably forget about it if I didn't so let's get into. Okay, well just real quick.

It's a few more things on the whole grim key event. With American reformer we have a just there's a lot of stuff like this. Like, you know who who cares what this guy thinks right? Like but I just thought he this is representative in my mind of some of the guys who are going after grim key, right?

Ray Whitlock Confessionally woke right? That's his title on X. He's Presbyterian. And he it says it even has his pronouns, right? Which I automatically tend to dismiss people I just do who have their pronouns on these social issues just because it's like you mean you're you've already capitulating when you start doing that, but He yeah, he was against what grim key did and of course, he's written for the Aquila report on On the PCA and you know, so you have guys like that.

Now, here's what happened, right? Let's get to the Zack Gareth stuff here. This is people are wondering what happened I know one of the tweets in this threads was deleted. So Here's the full thing. This is really it on on this particular screen, okay?

Zack Garris, he's getting tired. He's getting fed up that this event is being attacked and A guy who attacked it this event that grim key this reception that grim key is hosting with American reformer.

This guy named Lamont English decided to go after it and he says I agree with Reverend Charles here not super excited about being in Richmond at the PCA General Assembly with a bunch of Christian nationalists.

Some who believe American chattel slavery was justified interesting. So Zack, I think had enough Zack said, uh-oh. He's sarcastic. There's going to be people who reference Bible verses at the grim key event.

People who reference Bible verses, right? So This is the distinction between you know defending slavery. We are often told people like Zack and you know I get the same charge and a lot it's like if you're not getting that charge at this point you must be doing something wrong, but you this is the distinction between whatever that is and Defending the Bible's teachings about or concerning slave master relationships or slavery.

They're different. Defending what the Bible's teaching on these things is Different than just blank slate Defending as an open idea slavery. Okay, but. And that's what Zack's getting at here. Zack is saying There's people there who might quote Bible verses yeah, and you know, maybe there's people here who have believed like him that the Bible has something to say about this topic and we've tried to understand it and apply it to the best of our ability and That's all he thinks he's guilty of right?

And so that the the charge here. He's saying you is not matching what he actually believes. That's really what that behind the scene or you know underneath this since I've been watching these kind of debates.

That's what's going on. So then this sparks a whole back-and-forth Lamont English brother Allow me to ask you two questions then is interracial marriage sinful, right? So we're I guess we're leaving we're introducing now a different ethical Question and then was American chattel slavery absolutely sinful.

It's that's phrased intentionally that way. You know because if it's absolutely sinful in every respect at every level every stage. Every place then anyone who participated then would would be what they'd be in sin.

And that would include many Presbyterian heroes that would include people like Jonathan Edwards, right? We're about to find out what Lamont English thinks of Jonathan Edwards. It would include Obviously people like Robert Louis Dabney it would.

It would include though not just Presbyterians would include like the founding fathers it's the basis upon which I think that Much of American history has been lobotomized and It's the springboard upon which other egalitarian questions have been foisted upon us and to the demonization of traditional American heroes, so Zach Says no.

He says no to quest the second question. So he just doesn't even talk about the first one because you know. What does that have to do with anything? But no to the second question the majority of American Presbyterians said no it's possible to be anti-slavery and reject abolitionism.

We read that again. It is possible to be anti-slavery. So against slavery and also reject abolitionism. This is a possible position to hold. It's something I've been saying for a long time, but it's rare for people to understand.

Some people do understand it, but it's rare for those who are on the cancel culture trained to understand this position. Do you think Israel's chattel slavery of foreigners was absolutely sinful? He asked and and if you remember Israel's chattel slavery of foreigners could be perpetual, right?

So You could have people who were born into slavery and they remain in slavery and their their children are Slaves and this was not against God's law now if you were Jewish that wasn't the case there was a year of Jubilee, but for foreigners in this predicament or even foreigners who were Captured in war and that kind of thing.

And maybe that was mercy. They weren't going to be killed. They became slaves this is at least on some levels a parallel and now I Have been convinced that I need to do a longer Series of videos or maybe one long video on the topic of Slavery and American slavery in particular.

I've done some stuff in the past. But I have extensive notes and I haven't done a podcast on it. And I have decided in the midst of this that I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna do it soon I am planning on doing it this month.

And if you are a patron you will get a exclusive access to that so patreon .com forward slash worldview conversation, and that's where you find me and I'm just gonna I'm gonna release it to the patrons first and just see what they think because I know this is a it's a sensitive topic, of course, and I want to make sure that.

Not just the information's right, but the way it's communicated is to the best of my ability my limited ability that I have.

But.

Kind of rolling back into this conversation what we're watching here. You know this idea that you could be against Slavery that you don't want slavery, but also against abolitionism was a very common idea and some of the ethics that went into this for Christians were sourced from scripture including old the Old Testament.

You have a pagan slave system in the New Testament in some respects much worse than anything that you saw Really in the American South, but I mean they didn't have gladiatorial arenas right in Alabama, right?

You did in there in the Roman world. But you also had a system that God regulated in the Old Testament, and that's what Zack Garris is asking about so these specific features that Lamont English brings out that You know American shadow slavery some of those features are also similar or reflected in ancient Israel's Shadow slavery so Lamont English then responds.

He says hold on brother. I'm asking about American shadow slavery, right? And this is where you you see so often these guys Trying to say that ancient slavery Roman even Roman slavery, but certainly Jewish slavery.

It wasn't even slavery wasn't even really slavery you the only bad kind of slavery was America. You know It was a handful of places where the West was involved in the age of colonialism the Slavery of the Old Testament.

It's not even really slavery. It's just now they try to downplay it. They try to redefine it. They try to emphasize certain things to just really and I get it this is an apologetics issue, which is one of the reasons I need to do this because I have yet to see Good Christian apologists address this accurately and you get reamed out by atheists when you start doing that.

Because they they know it's not true. They know what you're doing and you're trying to redefine or minimize something that so It's best if we're just honest with what the Word of God says I think on these topics just go with what God Says on this he's perfect.

He's righteous and sure there are situations that Existed in ancient times that do not exist now. There's certain conditions that are different that would lead us to have different arrangements in certain ways.

I think of even polygamy for example being somewhat tolerated and regulated in the law and. And then you see in our context we've through centuries of development I must say in the West and Christian influence.

We have actually We have a more restrictive standard you know, unfortunately now we're going into homosexual marriage and stuff like that, which isn't marriage, but we've We've limited it to two people.