Mormonism With Haps

All right, we are live. Welcome to Reformed Ex-Mormon. I am Pastor Brayden of this YouTube channel and also Pastor Brayden from Valley Baptist Church out in Hagerman, Idaho. Today, we are doing something that we don't normally do.

We have a guest with us today, a good brother in Christ, and it's a true joy to call him a brother, Haps, here. And what we're doing today is we're just going to be discussing some stuff about Mormonism, just letting the conversation lead and guide how this format and everything should be set up, and just really kind of just diving into the cult that is Mormonism and just everything that comes along with it.

So Haps, I'll let you introduce yourself and talk what this purpose of this video is for right now.

Well, hello, I am Pastor Haps Addison with Olive Branch Ministries, and I'm also a teacher of world religion, cults, and apologetics. And me and Brayden are also the host of Open Air Theology with Jeffrey Rice also.

And I'm teaching a class right now down in San Diego on, well, just that, world religions, cults, and apologetics. And so this is for their school of ministry. We'd like to say hi to all you guys, and so we want to discuss Mormonism.

And Brayden right here is one of my closest friends. He's up in Idaho and his wife makes awesome pizza, by the way, awesome pizza. We got to cook for you the next time we come up. That's not true. We'll just make more pizza.

Pizza's always good. We'll just make more pizza. So, you know, can I ask you a few questions, big guy? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. What is Mormonism? Where did it come from, originate from, I mean, who founded it, and why?

Could you give us just an overall overview on what Mormonism is? Absolutely.

The Origins of Mormonism and Joseph Smith

So maybe to start out with just that first term of Mormonism kind of encapsulates a possibility of a multitude of sects that are within the Mormon mindset that has spanned and came from Joseph Smith in the 1800s.

Mormonism is most commonly thought of as the mainstream LDS faith and religion that comes out of Utah that's organized there in Utah. But Mormonism itself also includes the 100 plus sects and divisions that have come from that teaching of Joseph Smith.

And they all claim to be the one and true only Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the mainstream LDS church. And when I say church, I do not mean as a Christian church, but as a religious organization that is recognized such as the state.

I think that biblically they are not a church whatsoever. But the Mormon faith, the mainstream one that everybody usually is familiar with and comes in contact with is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

And they prefer to be known as LDS now. That's always changed throughout the years where sometimes they were very okay with being called Mormon. Sometimes they want to be called Christian. Sometimes they don't.

And right now they're in this swing where they want you to refer to them as their totality of the name Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I've even had some that say that I shouldn't refer to them even as LDS.

But this mainstream of the Mormon church comes from the 1800s by a gentleman named Joseph Smith, who grew up in varying different circumstances between his mom and his dad and different church backgrounds.

And he has claimed as the first official, the recognized official first vision statement by the mainstream LDS church is that Joseph Smith, being 14 years old, very, very confused about which church is the true church as they supposedly were all teaching that they had the fullness of the truth in it.

As the story goes, Joseph Smith read James chapter 1, verses 5 and 6. And from that, he figured that he needed to go pray about which church is true, which is a wrong application of that text. But regardless, he goes into the woods that's nearby his house, prays.

He said that he felt a power of darkness coming over him. But then there was a sudden light that had descended from the sky that was brighter than the sun and the stars. And being seeing this light, the darkness fled away and he saw two personages within that light.

So he saw what he would say is the father and the son and asking the father and the son what church he should join. He was told that all the churches, they drew near to him with their lips, but their hearts were far from them and that all their professing creeds were an abomination before the eyes of the Lord.

So in the official account of this, according to what LDS people would read from their stories that Joseph Smith then runs back to his house after receiving this revelation that he ought not to join any church because they were all false.

They were all an abomination in that way and that he shouldn't join any of them. He runs back to his mom where he says that he has found out that Presbyterianism is not true. And as you would know with Presbyterianism that you and I are going to have very similar creeds and confessions, and especially that of we're saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, according to God's word alone and on all glory be to him alone.

And so this is one, the founding idea of Mormonism is that during the 1800 years between the death of the apostles, the death of Christ until Joseph Smith, that there had been a great apostasy where the priesthood keys and authority thereof of the church had fallen away with the death of them.

And that through this, there was no true church on the earth and that they would call that the great apostasy. So they would say that they are in the final dispensation. So they are dispensationalist by nature in that type of thinking of God working with different groups, different time periods.

And so, yeah, so they would say we're in the last dispensation right now and that there is a restoration of all the Old Testament stuff such as prophets, temples. They wouldn't mention sacrifices, they wouldn't mention those kind of things, but they would say that those keys and priesthood authority that was on the earth at the time of Christ and before has been restored in the work of Joseph Smith.

There's a lot of other doctrines and history there, but I think that that's kind of a quick rundown of what Mormonism is, what the claims are, that they are the holders of the true church because they have the proper authority and priesthood thereof to be administrators of those things.

So they, correct me if I'm wrong, but they believe they're of the order of Melchizedek, right? Yeah, yeah.

Priesthood Authority and the Melchizedek Order

Melchizedek priesthood. Yeah, so they have what they would call the Aaronic Priesthood and the Melchizedek Priesthood, which they would claim that they have a restoration of those things and that that is what is needed to perform baptism, do the Lord's Table or what would they call it, sacrament.

That's what they would call those things and to do temple work and all those different things that they have in their beliefs is all dependent upon them having this proper authority, which they would claim is the Melchizedek and the Aaronic Priesthood that is given to different age groups as they grow up and are introduced into those things.

And so, yeah, they believe that they're Melchizedek Priesthood.

So who was the successor of, what's his name? Yeah, Joseph Smith.

Brigham Young, Succession, and the Move to Utah

Yeah, so it's really interesting. So looking at that history right there, the mainstream LDS church that everybody is familiar with, Brigham Young would be that successor. And the claim is that shortly after Joseph Smith's death, after he was taken into prison for burning down a printing press that had printed articles about how he was an evil man and that he was doing polygamy and polyandry and taking people's wives and destroying the community, all those kinds of things that were true claims.

They burnt down that printing press. Joseph Smith went to jail for those things. And he was murdered there. He shot back with a gun. He was shot at. He tried to get remorse from the Freemasons that were in the crowd because he had taken some of those rituals that he had learned in the masonry and applied them into the LDS temple.

And so he used that wording, my Lord, my God, which to our ears, that sounds like, oh, what an awesome last thing to say. But the history with that is that that's a plea unto Masons to help you. And so he had stolen what the Masons had done in their Masonic rituals, apply them in his temple rituals.

And so now he is this fellowship essentially with the Masons, and the Masons are mad, rightfully so, because he took their secrets. And now he's trying to use the language to get their help from them by saying, my Lord, my God, which is that's the universal cry to Masons to help somebody.

And so there's a lot of miss viewing of how this story is told by the LDS, the mainstream LDS, but he dies that day. And after that, there was Brigham Young and another successor that came in and spoke why they should be a prophet.

It was essentially an election in that sense. And as the story that was told to me goes, is that when Brigham Young spoke, that it was clear that he had the appearance of Joseph Smith and the voice that he was using, it sounded like Joseph Smith himself.

And so they said that it was obviously that Brigham Young was in the spirit of Joseph Smith, kind of like they would look back at Elijah or John the Baptist and Elijah and say, oh, yep, Brigham Young was this prophet successor.

But the issue with that that a lot of people don't like to admit is that Emma Smith, his wife didn't think that she did not follow the mainstream LDS church afterwards. There's a lot of interesting stuff that happens with that.

But from that event, truly, there starts to become a chasm inside that religion where there are groups that schismed off of those things. And so the claim by the LDS for the Christian is that, look how many denominations there are.

That's a testament to them that there is no true church on the earth other than themselves. And so they say, well, look, we are the only church that's the true church because there's only one Mormon church.

And you have to remind them that there's over 100 sects of Mormonism that all claim that one same authoritative principle that they are claiming themselves. And that argument for denominations in the Christian realm is Nolan Lloyd just by that fact itself.

And so Brigham Young was the main successor of the mainstream LDS stuff, and he kept on advancing some very evil doctrine therein and moved the entirety of the LDS to Utah for the most part. And that's kind of why that that cradle in Utah of how highly populated Mormonism is, it comes from Brigham Young moving people to that area.

And I heard that it was just a blood trail all the way from the East Coast to the West Coast, slaughtering Indians, slaughtering all kinds of people, you know?

Violence, Polygamy, and the Mountain Meadows Massacre

Yeah, I think the prime example of that is what's called the Mountain Meadow Massacre, something to definitely look into. The LDS would try to wash their hands of it, wouldn't want somebody to look into it, wouldn't want to be associated with it.

The reality of it is that Brigham Young has hands very much in that dealing, how that was handled, and it resulted in the highest numerical value of a mass murder here in the United States. So when you talk about mass shootings and all that kind of stuff, the LDS religion has the highest of that.

Now, these are all facts. These are absolute historical facts that you just can't deny. Now, let me ask you this. So Brigham Young, if I remember correctly, aren't you a direct descendant of Brigham Young?

Yeah, so I am related to him. But I think a lot of LDS can claim that because this man had over 50 wives. So it's not hard to be a descendant of Brigham Young in that sense. Yeah, he had over 50. I don't know the number off the top of my head, but the argument goes is that many of them were very old and they couldn't get remarried and yada, yada, yada.

And that was to support them. That's not true. There were some older wives, but there were absolutely very, very young wives and misuse of power. So when you think about the sinfulness of man, there's always three things that I think that you can see within our hearts, right?

And those things is that every man wants to have power. Every man wants to have money and every man wants to have sex. And so you see those three things in almost every single cult that we talk about and that you see that very predominantly, especially the early LDS days.

You see, yeah.

The Mormon View of God, Jesus, and the Trinity

That really goes back to the garden, the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life, you know? Yep, absolutely. Uh, so the, um, when it comes to, um, the LDS church and the, you know, what, what is, what are their doctrines?

You know, exactly what, what exactly do they believe that is so unorthodox? That's not like Orthodox Christianity. Could you help us with that?

So there's a, there's a multitude of things. I think the very first thing to begin with is the way that they view God. Um, just as, as a, as a quote from Joseph Smith himself says, um, it says, um, we have imagined and suppose that God was God from all eternity, which that is what the Christian view is.

But he says, I will refute that idea and take away the veil so that you may see. You have got to learn how to be gods yourselves and to be kings and priests of God, the same as all gods have done before you.

And so the idea is, is that there's an infinite regression of gods at that just, um, just as our God is our father, that he had a God that was his father. So that would make him our great God or a great grandfather God.

And it would just go back ad infinitum. And then in the future days, it's going to be ad infinitum forward as well. And so there's some logical issues with that as well as many scriptural proofs that have issue with that.

And so I would say that that's probably one of the most chief errors that they have is is a view of God that is contradictory to scripture and is putting them outside the realm of Christian. The second thing is how they view Jesus Christ.

They, they, this is an interesting issue because they would say, yeah, Jesus was divine by nature, right? And it sounds right to the Christian's ear. But the issue with that is that they believe everybody is divine by nature.

They all believe that we're children of God. And so when a Christian says that a Christian saying that Jesus is the one and only God, the second person of the Trinity, who is the word that became flesh and dwelt amongst us, the LDS is saying that Jesus is, is the offspring of sex between our heavenly father and a heavenly mother, and that those Jesus is our eldest spiritual brother.

So he came into existence is what they would claim. And because he came into existence underneath a heavenly father and a heavenly mother, that he partakes in the divine just as equally as you and I do.

And so that through they, they would go on to say that, um, that Jesus, when he became flesh is the same way that we've become flesh. And they would say that, um, that, that Jesus is a member of the Godhead, but not in the sense that a Christian does.

So a Christian says that a member of the Godhead and speaking of the Trinity, that they're co-eternal, um, that they are, uh, distinct, um, but not, not divided in that way. They're undivided in that way.

And so, um, when they, when the LDS talk about Jesus, they do not see him as the one and only God from all eternity to eternity who became flesh to pay the payment. Um, their, their view of Jesus Christ is that he was divine by nature in an equal sense to you and I, that he was a man who elevated himself up to Godhood, that it was after his, after his resurrection and ascension, that he became a God himself.

And so he's now a separate God from our God. And there's a multitude of those gods in their minds. And so, um, that, that's a huge issue. A second issue with the view that they have of Jesus Christ is the atonement, according to the, the, the book of Mormon, as well as some other verses, um, in their doctrine is that they would believe that the atonement happened particularly, uh, specifically in the garden of Gethsemane, where he bled, uh, where he had drops of blood coming off of his face.

They would say that that's when he took the weight of sin upon himself. And, um, the, the final portion of that was paying death. And so they would say that the cross was just a means to the ends. It wasn't that, that's not where he suffered for us.

He suffered in the garden for us, not in, on the cross, which is highly problematic when we see the verses like first Peter chapter three, uh, verse 24, I believe it is that he himself bore our sins upon the cross.

Um, a multitude of verses that come to our minds when we talk about the atonement of Jesus Christ. And so there's a different view of how the atonement worked in the LDS faith. There's a different view of who Jesus Christ is.

His character is being his work in, in, in the idea of the LDS. And then there's also, uh, the view of the atonement and its application to us. So as a Christian, we say that we cannot save ourselves.

There's nothing that we bring to the table in our salvation. That's what we mean when we say by grace alone is only through what he has done for us. The LDS, I have very fundamental teachings about this.

Um, they, they'll try to claim that they believe that they're saved by, by grace alone, but you need to remind them of articles of faith three and four. This comes right from their website right now. But articles of faith three and four says this.

We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel. So you might ask yourself, what are the laws and ordinances of the gospel?

And it says that we have to be obedient to it. So right there, that, that, that should already see the clear divide between the orthodox Christian view and the LDS view. But articles of faith four kind of goes into this a little bit more.

Says we believe that the, the first principles and ordinances of the gospel are faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ, second repentance, third baptism by immersion for the remission of sins and fourth, the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy ghost.

Also, if you go to just the LDS website and their overview of what the gospel is, this is what they have defined the gospel as the gospel is our heavenly father's plan of happiness. The central doctrine of the gospel is the atonement of Jesus Christ.

The prophet Joseph Smith said the first principle and ordinances of the gospel first are what we just read right there. And then we would see that right after this on the overview, it says in its fullness, the gospel includes all the doctrines, principles, laws, ordinances, and covenants necessary for us to be exalted in the celestial kingdom.

The savior has promised that if we endure to the end faithfully living the gospel, he will hold us guilty before the father on the final judgment that's through Nephi 27 to 16. So again, their view of the gospel is that of a required obedience from the person itself and that Jesus just made it so that we could be obedient to those things.

So the LDS view that going to church on a Sunday is not one just out of worship to God, but one out of necessity for their salvation and exaltation. They would see that it's necessary to partake in the sacrament, necessary for baptism, necessary for going to the temple, necessary for doing all these good works.

Second Nephi chapter 25 verse 23 in their own doctrine in their book, it says that you are saved by grace after all you can do. And then in the book of Moroni, I believe it's Moroni chapter eight without turning there immediately.

It says that if you deny yourself of all and godliness, then his grace is sufficient for you. You know what?

Let me just interrupt you. I've heard that in a lot of charismatic churches. I've heard that in a lot of works-based, obedience-based and it really, so you know, what I'm hearing from you right now is one more thing.

Yeah, please go. Trinitary, do they believe in the Trinity?

A Different Gospel and a Different Spirit

So they would say yes, but that's their definition of the Godhead that the father has a body of flesh and bones. The son has a body of flesh and bones and the Holy Spirit will receive the body of flesh and bones one day.

And that they're all three separate beings, not separate persons like how the Trinity is typically defined, but three separate beings in one in purpose, not one in essence, one in purpose. A plurality of gods.

Yeah, the plurality of gods that are in council with each other to make sure that their purpose is being done accordingly. And so the issue with that is, I mean, John chapter eight, verse 24 is that I think one of the most explicit places that you can take an LDS person to show that they are not Christian.

It says, Jesus says unto them that you must believe I am. If you do not believe I am, you shall die in your sins. And so that's the name of God in the Old Testament used over 6 ,000 times. Um, that right there is saying Jesus, Jesus is saying, if you don't believe I am the one and only God, the self existing one, you shall die in your sins.

And the LDS do not hold that view. They, they say that he is one of a multitude of gods, um, that came into existence that, and you can get really down in the rabbit trail with those things with the LDS person.

But that is the fundamental differences. I would argue between a Christian and a Mormon is their view of God. Jesus and the gospel, um, is completely different. Let me get this straight.

Yeah. Different Jesus, different gospel, different spirit. Yep. Absolutely. And so by that definition right there, that is a cult, right? Yes. Yep. I mean like 100 and it, and it guys, cult's not a bad word.

It's just, it's not a bad word. It's not a derogatory word or anything like that. It's just an identity. It's how we identify those that have a profession of faith, but not a possession of faith. The ones and for all faith that was given to the church.

Yep. And that's, that's us as, as the believers and everything. So they have this, um, appearance of godliness, but they deny, uh, its power. They, they have, uh, a belief in the father, son, the Holy spirit, but completely different than what is, uh, breathed out, breathed out in scripture by the Holy spirit.

And I always, I always like using this analogy with anybody I talk to that doesn't have faith in, in the true one and only Yahweh of the Bible, right? If I told you I had faith in Jesus Christ, I think everybody that is listening and watching this would say, Hey man, that's awesome.

Praise God that you have faith in Jesus Christ. But if I told you that the Jesus I'm talking about is actually, he goes by Jesus and he's my cashier down at my Kroger store down the, down the street from me.

He's really, really nice. Love him. He always double bags my ice cream for me to keep it nice and cold. Um, I have a lot of faith in him for my salvation. Everybody's going to say, stop what you're doing, run away, go to the cross, right?

Go to that Jesus. And so that's really what we see here is we, we have two different Jesus's. Yes. They, they look at the, they look at the Bible and they think that they have Jesus in there. But the issue with this is that the, the, the Pharisees saw the same Jesus that you and I are talking about right now.

And what was their accusations? They bought it, brought against Jesus. According to John chapter five, John chapter 10 and John chapter 19, is that you being a man and made yourself out equal to be with out to be equal with God.

You being a man who made yourself out to be God and you being a man and made yourself out to be the son of God. Those three terms are the only accusations that the Jews could bring against Jesus because they were charging him with blasphemy.

And why is it that it was blasphemy to them? It's blasphemy to say that you're the one and only God, unless you are the one and only God that is saying it. And so Jesus never refuted those things. People fell at his feet when he said he was the ego me.

He said that you would die in your sins and they often sought to stone him to attack him for those claims. And so the Pharisees rejected Jesus, the Jesus that you and I believe in the same way that the LDS are rejecting the Jesus that you and I believe in.

They do not see him as the one and only God who came to take away our sins and that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone. They deny those same principles that the Pharisees themselves denied Jesus as.

I think a clear example of that is in the Gospel of Luke when Jesus is lowered through the roof or not Jesus. So the paralytic man is lowered through the roof. Jesus is in the room. The paralytic man is lowered through the roof and Jesus says, seeing his faith, seeing him, he says, your sins are forgiven you.

And the Pharisee says, who are you to forgive sin that God forgives sin? And he said to them, unless he doesn't rebuke them for saying that he is God to forgive sins. What does he say? Is it easier for me to save for your sins forgiven you or get up and walk?

And he looks at the paralytic man and tells him to get up and walk and go home. It validates that validates the forgiveness of sin, which yes, only God can forgive sin. We see a multitude of terms that are used for God and they are all applied to Jesus Christ.

And I think a clear example of that is in Isaiah chapter 44 verses five through eight, I believe it is. And in there it says, there's no God other than me. There's none before me. There's none after me.

For I am the rock. I am the savior. I am the king. It uses these terms. And guess what are all those terms? Who are they applied to in the New Testament? Christ, the one and only God. And that's the, that's the issue that the LDS have is that they're taking those terms and the definitions they're in and they're altering them, changing them.

And therefore they have mutilated the view, the biblical view of Jesus Christ and are outside the camp of Christianity. Therefore they have a false gospel are to be accursed, called and beckoned to, to repent and believe in the gospel and come back to a biblical understanding of Jesus Christ.

And therefore they are in a cult until they do that.

Man, I know I live right behind an LDS church and, and they're just some of the nicest people you'd ever meet in your life. Oh my gosh. You know, they, you know, I, I have my guys, you know, over here at the house.

Hey, Pastor Happy, you know, come outside. There's, there's some, what is it? Sisters out here, or is that what they're called? Sisters? Yeah, and then the little kids are called elders. Go figure. It's just, everything's upside down.

You know, it's messed up. Yep. It's all messed up. The little kids are called elders, but anyways, the sisters are out back and, and I mean, out front and my guys are out there just giving them the gospel and they're just not having it.

Yeah. It was just like, Hey, we just want to give you the gospel. No, no, no, no. Just read. I think they, they'd open it up. They just put it right in your face and it just read Nehemiah 5 or something like that.

Yep. Is it Nephi? Yeah. Nephi. Yep. Nephi. Nephi. Yep. Yep. You know, as we were going through Utah, me and my wife, we went through that town. Yeah. Yeah.

A town called Nephi. Yeah. I think you almost drive through all the book of Mormon names. When you drive through Utah, you got Nephi. We were tripping. You got them all.

Yeah. That's pretty great. What I would like to do is, so this will be part one. Yeah. All right. And so this is just giving everybody an overview of what the Mormon Church the Church of Latter-day Saints is.

What are some of their core doctrines with that? What's the history of? This movement this cult. America. American cult by the way. Yep these. Most people don't understand that the United States is the bedrock of cults.

Most cults start out of the United States and they have for a couple hundred years.

American Cults, Restorationism, and False Prophecy

Yeah, there's a multitude of them that started in the 1800s. A mold. Yeah.

Yeah, like was it Jehovah's Witnesses? Yep.

Mormonism. You have seven-day Adventists that come out and for that time you have Christian science. Yep. You have a lot.

Dispensationalism. All this kind of stuff all these thought all these doctrines came out and they were. There was what's called doomsday doctrines. Yeah, and so this was like ramping up towards the Civil War here in the United States.

It's all these doom Doomsday cults started and they started off by saying hey, you know. It's the we're the one true church. You got to follow us and every single one of them including if I'm correct and including Joseph Smith they were all giving prophecies.

Yeah.

Well, that's the that's the wild thing about it is that you you you have a multitude of doctrine that has come about in those days and it's it's the responsibility and upon the shoulder of the church to Seek if these claims are true or not, and that's part of that is a that is a biblical exhortation I mean we are told that if a person comes and preaches a gospel contrary to the one that you have yet received Let him be accursed in Galatians chapter 189 so the issue with that is is that we have to first know what the gospel is and we have to be able to Identify if this is a contrary to the gospel and those things are always with a focus each one of those those Religions that you have just brought up and doctrine that has come out of those 1800s.

They have an emphasis of the United States. They have an emphasis in the last days. They have an emphasis of this Second coming of Christ, which the Christian says come Lord quickly would come. Yeah the Christians the Christian says yes, we want Jesus to come absolutely, but that's not Nor should that be?

We are not. How would I word that that that that's not the core doctrine therein? That's not the founding of our churches by any means the founding of our church is what it was done on the cross Christ says I will build my church.

No one will destroy it that the gates of Hades will not Prevail against it. Yeah, that's the wording. Thank you. Matthew 8 16 18 there, right? And so that the church needs to be established upon the hill of Calvary and there alone and focusing upon the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for their doctrine and that's what they need to use to identify and Accuse these false doctrines of the heresy there is.

Yeah, and and guys went when I said Dispensationalist, I wasn't referring to them as a cult or anything. No, I was saying all these doctrines started here in the United States. Yes, they started at a specific time and it was something called the restoration movement when everybody was saying Oh, we got to get rid of the creeds.

We got to get rid of the confessions and. And we God's gonna restore the church and bring back all the Apostles and prophets and the spiritual gifts and and everybody was all having these new revelations that just weren't lining up at all.

Yeah.

It was a lot of that that hyperfuturism reading of a text yes that results in that kind of stuff and it. Yeah, yeah. Those are those those claims like dispensationalism is I think is a great example that if this is true Then then we need to look in the Bible and and that's the our conclusion.

But we need to understand that that was a doctrine that came about in the 1800s never written down in any creed confession or church Father in any way or articulated in the way that it is by dispensationalism today.

It's it's important to notice those things for sure now that the LDS They also believe that and and they try to prove this to if I'm correct that they are one of the lost tribes of Israel. Yeah, the lost in tribes.

Yeah, so they would go to that.

Is it Ezekiel 37 text where it's the the two sticks that are put in the hand and it becomes one? They they say that stick of Joseph is Joseph Smith. That's being talked about in there. And that that Joseph Smith is the restorer of Israel in that way and so they they participate in what would be called these these different priesthood blessings and Ordinances.

And one of those that are within that realm of ordinances is that they receive a blessing. From a priesthood holder where they're pronounced. What tribe they're in and so I can't remember what anyway.

Yeah, so it's it's just interesting how that all works out and and their views of those things. And so, yeah, they would they would believe they are a part of the twelve tribes of Israel and a very physical and literal way.

So, um, just one last question, you know, I know you got your Labor Day and it's today Labor Day.

Isn't it? I think yeah. Hey, yeah. Yeah, happy for you.

So, um, so again, this is gonna be part one part two. I if you please bless us with The the testimony of Christ in your life and what he has done and how you tie into all of this the dangers of Mormonism and kind of like that that.

Like we're all in the same game, you know. Like just all roads lead to Christ and they're just another denomination in Jesus Christ. And his church and the apologetics. And I really like to key in on that part the apologetics part of How we can lead these people to Christ?