Charlie Kirk WILD Pro-Choice Debate | Debate Teacher Reacts

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What is the unborn? Is it a human being or not? Charlie Kirk was making a point about the deleterious side effects of ending the life of the unborn, and one of the ladies just said, so is having a kid.

00:13

Did I just hear that? She wishes that her mom aborted her? Is that? Did she really just say that?

00:18

He's dropping some important ideas that they need to wrestle with, and they're just not doing it. Things get wild on the

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Whatever podcast. Charlie Kirk sits down and defends the rights of the unborn in a crazy debate, and we'll get into that in just a moment.

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If this is your first time here, welcome. My name is Nate Zala, and this is Wise Disciple, where I'm helping you become the effective Christian that you were meant to be.

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Make sure to like and subscribe to the channel if you haven't already, and for this video, guys, do me a favor and share this one around.

00:53

We're going to get into Charlie Kirk's methods, his performance, and I'll bet that there are some things that we can glean from this that will help us as we get out there and have the same kinds of conversations in our circles of influence.

01:04

So share this one around so we can get the word out about it. Let me ask you this. If you knew for certain the baby, would you agree it's a baby?

01:11

Is that a good term to use if it's in a womb? Is that a baby? I think most people would say fetus. Probably a fetus, yeah. Okay, so what does fetus mean in Latin?

01:19

I think a fetus is a growing child. It's a development child. You're right, Molly. You know it means a little human. Using fetus is nothing more than a cope for what you know it is.

01:26

It's a baby, right? Obviously not if we're here debating it. I don't think it's as subtle as you think it is. Well, you don't have to use the word fetus. It makes people feel better.

01:31

It's obviously a baby. No, I mean, obviously you wouldn't take, like— Okay, so Kirk comes out swinging, all right?

01:37

Great point about the word fetus, although I don't think everybody is guilty of using the word fetus as a cope.

01:44

That's what Kirk just said, and because he presumably just met these people for the very first time,

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I don't think that he can speak knowledgeably about who's coping and who is not. So I don't think this is really a great approach to take as a debater.

01:58

It kind of, sort of comes across as smug and condescending, you know? It's possible that many people on the pro -choice side of an argument are there because they fully believe they are the ones who hold the righteous view.

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They're arguing on behalf of women's rights, and they fully believe that the unborn is not a human being until some arbitrary stage of development.

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Of course, that's all garbage, but they are completely ignorant of that. So the best way to deal with this is to just immediately get at the heart of the issue, which trades on definition of terms, and that's where Kirk should stay focused.

02:33

You know, a fetus that just has, like, a heart and, like, their brain isn't fully formed, and be like, that's the same as, like, a one -month -old.

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Like, we obviously see differences between development from then and there. So, but then how about 30 weeks? That's where it becomes a lot more contentious, but the point being is that we don't look at a fetus from its beginning stages and be like, yeah, that's the same thing as my, like, three -month -old cousin.

02:50

Hold on. That's—a nine -month -old is not the same thing as a one -month -old, right? So you can go—the progression of development continues.

02:55

The question is, when does it start? Yeah, that's a million -dollar question. I agree with that. Do you think conception? Of course.

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That's the only answer. Most women, I don't believe, even know that they're pregnant before six weeks, so, like, around, like, these—the heartbeats and stuff like that.

03:07

Yeah, but the knowledge— Okay, notice that non -sequitur, right? Charlie Kirk wants to have a conversation about when the unborn is a human being.

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That is a great thing to do in a conversation like this. He says it's at conception. This young lady says, but wait a second, a lot of women don't know they're pregnant at the moment of conception.

03:27

So? So, therefore, what follows from this, the unborn is not a human based on the mother's awareness of her own pregnancy?

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That—this is a change of subject, and it must be identified as such immediately. Knowledge of your pregnancy doesn't mean that you're not pregnant.

03:43

No, no, no, that's not what I'm saying, but I'm saying, like, practicality -wise, there are many instances of women who act—who have miscarriages without even ever knowing, because it might just present as, like, a very heavy cycle that month.

03:52

That's fine, but it doesn't make it any less a life, right? Sure, go ahead, Miley. No, but do you mourn that miscarriage in the same way you mourn, like, an abortion, like a conscious choice?

04:00

Not the same way. No, it's not the same way. No, but it's still—it's still a tragedy. A miscarriage is a tragedy, but an abortion— Even if she doesn't know about it?

04:06

But an abortion is an act of human will. A miscarriage most times is not. Now, sometimes it can be a miscarriage because you drank alcohol and you didn't know you were pregnant, or you might have taken a drug that has side effects, but—

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All I see is this young lady in the background here wearing a toy soldier helmet.

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Is this from, like, the upcoming Nutcracker Ballet? Like, what is—what is this podcast?

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I'm not familiar with the whatever podcast. I just—I don't understand. The—the—it seems like this, to me, is trying to be unbelievable with Justin Breyerly if instead of Justin Breyerly, it was hosted by Jerry Springer.

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You know what I'm saying? But yes, a miscarriage is a tragedy. Yes. I have a question. So, do you care about the children once they're born?

04:51

I'm gonna— Whoa! Wait, wait, wait, whoa! What happened to the conversation about when the unborn is a human being?

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Kirk said it was at the moment of conception. There was no substantive response from the pro choice side.

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And now we're just moving on? Now we got another question for you? No! We need to continue to have the conversation about when the unborn is a human being.

05:13

That is the first thing that we need to establish. If you can define that clearly, everything else in this discussion will make sense.

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If you do not define that at the outset, a lot of this is—it's gonna be a tennis match, you know?

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Kirk will say some interesting things, you know, he seems to be a smart guy, right? Then the ball goes over the net to the ladies, they'll say things, and then the ball goes right back over the net, but there will be no true clash.

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That's my prediction, if we do not take the requisite time to define terms. I care a lot about them, yeah.

05:46

So, how—so, if a—if, say, a woman got R -worded or something, or even if she just got pregnant and—

05:54

Grid 1 Motorsports donated $200. Life is not subjective, and we know this because you are killing it.

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Why is it so easy for you ladies to kill kids, if your comfort and lifestyle more important than the life you give?

06:07

Anyway, my question, what was I saying? Oh, you were saying if somebody was—someone forced sex upon themself, it's the word you're—

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Or even, like, not even just that, but say, like, if the mother, like, was homeless or something, say, like, she didn't—

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You see how we can veer into these interesting scenarios from the pro -choice side of the fence when you do not define terms, right?

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Like, if you do not define when the unborn is a human being, you can spend so much time getting lost in all kinds of what -if situations, right?

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Homelessness, you know, it's like— But when you define terms at the outset, the unborn is a human being at the moment of conception, and here's why.

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Now, all of a sudden, the question of a woman being the victim of someone forcing themselves on her, and then she gets pregnant, right?

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Which, by the way, is grotesque, it's horrific, it's completely unacceptable, and the one who does something like that should face the full penalty of the law.

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But even if that were to happen, it doesn't justify ending an innocent life. If it's an innocent human life that we're talking about from the moment of conception, which is not only the

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Christian position, it's the position of many purely from a biological perspective.

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There are biology textbooks that will still tell you that life begins at the moment of conception.

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If that's the case, it doesn't matter how horrific the scenario, the end result will be the murder of an innocent child.

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That's why it's important to get these definitions out there before you slip into these various scenarios.

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And have a good life. Do you still think that child deserves to be brought into the world just to suffer? Well, so it's not a guarantee of suffering, number one.

07:49

The answer is yes, the life should be brought into the world. There are twice as many people on the adoption waiting list. Let me ask you guys,

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I'm just curious, how many abortions do you think there are a year in America? Tens of thousands, I assume. Any other guesses?

08:03

What if I told you there was over a million abortions every year? That wouldn't surprise me at all. But you went from tens of thousands to a million.

08:08

I mean, there's billions of people on the board. Yeah, there's 340 million in America, that's right. No, but do you think... As far as like reported ones, even just reported data is going to be incomplete.

08:16

That doesn't count Mifepressinone, which is the chemical abortion that people get at home. It doesn't count Plan B, right? And even if abortion were illegal, for example, we stopped gathering data on who procures abortions, there would be so many.

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There's so many now, even in a state where it's still legal. In Texas, it's gone down dramatically. No, they're still happening. It's just not being accounted for.

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Women are just doing it to themselves. Right, it's a 90 % abortion reduction rate in Texas. I don't want to dwell on that too much, though. So there's a million abortions every single year.

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And there's twice as many people on the adopt... There's 2 million people on the adoption waiting list. So there's really no such thing currently, there could be, but currently of an unwanted child.

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So there's 2 million people wanting to adopt, and there's a million people that have abortions every single year. So there's twice as many people that want to get a child.

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Now, there's a longer conversation about making it less bureaucratic without allowing bad people to adopt kids for bad reasons.

09:00

I'm perfectly open for that conversation. But to answer your question, I don't love the premise. It's a really good question because a lot of people have it.

09:07

I don't necessarily believe being born in poverty is a death sentence or is a reason to terminate...

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But abortion is a death sentence. So I don't think poverty should give you a death sentence. Would you say abortion is...

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Powerful. Powerful response from Charlie Kirk. And actually, you know, that's what it looks like to provide substance and remain respectful in a conversation like this.

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Notice, these ladies have no response. They began with a premise that, let's face it, many

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Christians have been faced with in their own conversations on this issue. And for many Christians, asking them about adoptions and, you know, victims of violent abuse that lead to pregnancies, these all have been conversation enders for Christians, right?

09:55

But Kirk brings some facts and they have no response. Now, notice they're going to move on again, right?

10:01

And I would not let them. In a conversation, I would gently press, right?

10:07

Hey, I define the unborn as a human at conception, that they're alive at conception.

10:12

I didn't hear a definition from your side, right? And then you asked me about abortion rates, you know,

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I just gave you some stats. Before we move on too quickly to another subject, would you mind giving me a response?

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And then just let them wrestle, right? The best thing that can happen is when you bring someone to the moment where they cannot answer a question that you ask.

10:34

For some people, it's life -changing. Murder? Oh, of course. Do you think that people who procure abortions, women specifically, women who procures an abortion should go to jail for getting one?

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Absolutely. Yeah. They're the moral equivalent of Auschwitz. Really? Yes. Um, I know millions of women are basically the same as like Nazi death camp guards.

10:50

Women are victims. They're lied to. 90 % of women do not see an ultrasound before they have an abortion. They have no idea what's happened to them. They're the victims here.

10:55

It is the abortionists that are doing this. But let me ask you, and I mean this, have you guys ever seen an abortion on a video? Wait, no, I'm sorry. If women are the victims here, why should they be jailed?

11:02

Well, I don't believe they should be jailed. You just said they should be jailed. How is it that you can believe that abortion is murder, but a murderer shouldn't go to jail?

11:08

I didn't say that. The doctors, the abortionists, the people that call themselves doctors, the people that put women under general anesthesia and go into -

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But the women are asking for it. They are doctors. They're medical professionals. Are you going to just discount the accountability of the women in that situation? My current perspective is because the women are not given what is called informed consent, that the women should not be penalized.

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They should not be, um, they shouldn't be penalized. In fact, they should be given grace from a system that has lied to them and has misled them.

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They are not given the full picture of exactly what's happening to them. Informed consent has not happened, so these women are the victims. The abortionists -

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One second. The abortionists are the ones that know exactly what's happening. And if you haven't seen a video of an abortion, I'm not going to say anything too graphic.

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It is one of the hardest things to watch. The baby fights, the baby struggles, the baby dodges, the baby avoids, they break the neck of the baby, they euthanize it to the spring.

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It's not a joke. And then they tear it limb from limb through their - This lady with the purple hair is laughing?

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Really? What's funny about this? What's funny about what happens to the unborn when they're murdered?

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I fail to see what's funny about that. What I do find interesting is, this is why

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I said earlier, it's not a good idea to say things are a cope. The very same ladies that are not given informed consent by doctors -

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By the way, great point by Kirk there, you know, that they are victims, in Kirk's opinion, because they are not given informed consent.

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These are probably the same ladies that he's talking to, you know? Kirk is probably talking to ladies who have had these procedures in their past.

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That is absolutely a likely factor for the people that he's engaging right now, and it's probably true for you as well if you're getting out there and engaging others, you know?

12:48

This right here is an example of the large -scale ignorance in our society when it comes to this issue, and both men and women believe these lies from the culture, and then they go and do horrifically wicked things, believing that they're righteous when they do it, and that's a problem.

13:23

That's right, and so when - So this is not a formal debate by any stretch, okay?

13:44

This is what it looks like to have a real conversation with folks who are on the other side of the issue, right?

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Pro -life, where the Christians are. Pro -choice, where the secularists are. I want you to notice this is why these kinds of regular conversations are very often unhelpful, and they get absolutely nowhere.

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Notice these girls, these ladies, they keep going round and round and throwing scenarios out and questioning

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Kirk about his views, and Kirk is being gracious, you know, and he's answering their questions, and hopefully there will be some time set aside where, you know, he can ask them some pointed questions, but he's making some really great points, and they're not responding at all.

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There is no substance coming from their side. They are just literally - It's almost as if they have a list of things right in front of them, and they're like, okay, check that off, now

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I'm going to go to the next one. That's not a real conversation, guys, and if you let someone bop around the way that these ladies are, you'll never get to the heart of the issue.

14:46

Okay, it has to begin with this question. What is the unborn? Is it a human being or not?

14:53

If you say it's a human being, when is it a human being, and why? Those are the fundamental questions that must be asked first, or else, yeah, we're just going to keep bopping around and then dealing with every hypothetical issue under the sun, and we'll never get to the fundamental presuppositions that shape both opposing sides, and that's where the true clash lies, and that's exactly what needs to happen in these kinds of conversations.

15:21

Without getting into that, no infant should be terminated because of health risk to the infant. Okay, that's insane. It's like you're going to kill the baby because the baby has health risks.

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Not just health risks. These are medical - Hold on, Down syndrome.

15:33

Should we abort Down syndrome kids? No. Iceland has. They said if you have Down syndrome, you're done, so that's not a new phenomenon.

15:39

They've gotten rid of Down syndrome. If you have a DNA test of Down syndrome, they abort the kid. I think that's cruel and unusual. That is. Okay, we agree.

15:44

I think there are frivolous reasons to procure abortions, but I don't believe that just because there are frivolous reasons to get them, that means it should be outlawed.

15:49

But should murder be outlawed? Yeah, but like you were saying, even though you believe that those women have a hand in committing the murder, and infanticide basically of their own children, they shouldn't go to jail.

15:59

They have not been given informed consent. Do you have that opinion with people who are addicted to drugs? Do you think only drug dealers should go to jail, but not people who actually try to buy drugs and consume them?

16:06

It depends what drug it is. It depends the category, the class. Is there a single drug where you would say that somebody who is buying and consuming drugs that they are addicted to should not be going to jail, but only their drug dealer should be going to jail?

16:14

I mean, I think fentanyl and heroin potentially, but it's a completely separate issue, because a lot of people know the informed consent of heroin and fentanyl.

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It's not like we have PSAs. We have billboards. Stop using fentanyl. Stop doing fentanyl. How many times have you heard that? Have you ever? But they have a chemical dependency now that prevents them from being able to make that choice.

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How often have we ever had an honest conversation with women in this country saying that having an abortion increases the chances for depression, anxiety, medication dependence?

16:35

So does having a kid. Having children carries all of those things. Did you hear that? Did you hear that,

16:42

Kirk? Charlie Kirk was making a point about the deleterious side effects of ending the life of the unborn, and one of the ladies just said, so is having a kid.

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So it's exactly the same, guys. Murdering an innocent life has the same side effects as giving birth and raising that same life.

17:01

It's the same thing, guys. Amazing. I hope by now you're seeing the strategy here.

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This is not just a video for us to react to. This is more like training, right? And I hope you see all of this could have been avoided if we would have spent some time on the fundamental issues first.

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Hey, real quick. I'm so grateful that you're watching. If I've earned the right to get your sub, I'd love it if you would just click the like and subscribe button.

17:29

It would really help me to get the video out to more and more people. I really do appreciate you. Just risks.

17:35

You think having children... You think having children is... No, don't mischaracterize me. No, that's not true at all. I'm not going to say that having a child necessarily gives you depression.

17:41

It can come with it. Like postpartum depression, for example. It's temporary and short -lived and obviously...

17:48

Not always. That's temporary and short -lived. That's not permanent. You think years of living with postpartum depression can simply constitute a temporary medical issue?

17:57

Let's theoretically even grant... So you're saying because of potential postpartum depression or financial burdens, the moral answer is allow women to go...

18:04

No, that was never my argument. This had nothing to do with morality. This was a completely separate question. I'm only saying that I feel like you're trivializing and downplaying how serious...

18:11

This has nothing to do with morality. What? This has everything to do with morality.

18:19

What are we even arguing about this for if it has nothing to do with morality? We are arguing over whether people have the right...

18:27

Hello? That means the moral right to end the life of an unborn human being in the womb.

18:34

Kirk should clap back on that one. Questions like postpartum depression can be when you want to write it off as like a temporary medical issue.

18:40

When it can be years -long battle. Look, having children is a serious choice. So what percentage of abortions, according to the

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Guttmacher Institute, are not rape, not incest, and not life of the mother? What percentage would you say? Probably the vast majority. 97%.

18:50

Is abortion now birth control? Yes or no? No, I don't think so. I think it's situational to each and every...

18:57

Molly, do you think that birth control... It could be called birth control in certain situations. Because you're talking about over a million abortions, but there's tens of millions of women that are on birth control, that have

19:04

IUDs, that take birth control pills. So obviously, that's not the only reason why. But it's a form of birth control. Is it not?

19:10

These ladies do not understand the point that he just made. What he just did, he's undermining the what -if scenarios that have just been thrown his way.

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The vast majority of these procedures that we're discussing here in this video have nothing to do with the scenarios that these ladies just threw at him.

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Because the vast majority of these scenarios are done outside the scenarios that were just presented.

19:36

So why the fixation on these scenarios? And I get it.

19:41

The ladies are amped up, right? They're in adversarial mode, okay? They just completely missed his point.

19:48

Yes, this is a form of birth control. Anyone who is objective can see that.

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And if I were Charlie Kirk, I would not let these ladies keep moving on and changing the subject so quickly.

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I'd say, hey, hey, let's slow down, okay? And just force them to sit longer with the implications of the truth that he's dropping on them.

20:08

He's dropping some big, important ideas that they need to wrestle with, and they're just not doing it.

20:17

So - Birth control, sure, but you acknowledge that it's not the predominant form of birth control. Well, I didn't say that in all honesty. I said it's birth control.

20:22

Yeah, but we're not disagreeing with the category. I'm talking about the prevalency of it. If it's birth control, then why would we allow it to continue if it's not?

20:28

If you put the rape incest life of the mother which we can debate - I didn't. But no, I'm going to put that aside for a second. Then why should we allow a horrific procedure to continue that has such heavy and dire consequences and results in a child not being able to live outside of the womb?

20:41

Because that's the most - You're loading it so much by saying a horrific procedure. Most women who procure abortions actually report being happy long -term because they made the choice because there's many different reasons why women get abortions.

20:49

Some women aren't in a financial position to have a child at that time and actually decide to have children later. Well, how'd they get pregnant? What do you mean? They had sex unprotected or an accident.

20:56

They want the orgasm without the responsibility. Do you think the majority of women are having orgasms and sex? Are you serious?

21:01

Have you seen the studies on orgasm gaps between men and women? I'll be honest. So they want all the pleasure. They want all - But you want all the loose lifestyle but none of the responsibilities.

21:10

Now you're framing it like the punishment for having - Hold on, it's a punishment? No, no, no. The way that you're framing it.

21:16

No, it's not a punishment. Oh, you want the loosey -goosey parts of sex with the orgasm. But you don't want the responsibility of a child. It's like, yeah, some people want to be able to have sex.

21:22

Okay, no, you articulate it perfectly. I'm going to be able to have sex how I want. And if I have to go put a dagger through - I'll have someone put a dagger through a child for me then so be it.

21:31

Bam! I mean, right? Bam!

21:37

Look at the lady with the red hair there. That is a direct hit. Now here's why what

21:45

Charlie Kirk just said is so effective. Okay, this lady with the glasses who's been doing the primary talking this entire time.

21:51

She just got done saying that women should be able to have pleasure without being punished for that.

21:57

That was her way of framing the discussion in a manner that is advantageous to her position, right?

22:03

Kirk just took that and reframed it right back. He took her words and then he restated them in a much more clear and unambiguous way in order to make the point.

22:14

I think for, you know, anyone who's on the fence with regard to this issue, that what he just did is extremely powerful.

22:22

For those who've already made up their minds, you know, like these ladies and others, right? They won't be swayed. But for those who are open -minded, okay?

22:30

They're seeking the truth on this issue. What Charlie Kirk just said outperformed the lady's original comment.

22:35

Well done. Sure, I guess. No, that you're being morally clear. And basically it is, it's my body.

22:41

I can do whatever I want with it. Even though, let me ask you a question. Even though, like I said, most women don't regret their abortions at all.

22:46

Like the vast majority of women say, report happiness and being okay with their decision. I'm sure you think that they're lying or they're indoctrinated.

22:52

So, but if it's not your DNA, how is it your choice? If it's not your DNA, why is it your choice? It is. No, it's, it's the baby has its own

22:58

DNA. And then it forms into, yeah. It has its own unique DNA. That's not yours. It here. It's part of your

23:04

DNA. Oh, so should the man then be able to have veto power over abortion? Well, the point is the man isn't the one incubating the child.

23:10

So I thought it's, if it's about DNA. If you, if I never made the DNA argument, you did. The argument that I was going to make was, or I was going to ask you the question.

23:16

Do you think another person has a right to your life and your body? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

23:22

This is frustrating. Kirk asks great questions. He makes great points.

23:28

You know, this, this last one about DNA, obviously these ladies cannot substantively give response to that.

23:35

But I mean, the point is a baby has its own unique DNA in the womb.

23:40

So what are we really talking about? Are we talking about my choice? My body? I got that backwards, right?

23:47

These ladies do not give any kind of substantive response. And then they just try to move on quickly. Boy, Charlie Kirk, I think he, yeah.

23:59

This is actually a very helpful video because I think it showcases what very often happens to us as Christians who get out there and we try to engage other folks, okay?

24:08

Folks, they don't answer our questions very often. They quickly change the subject and we just follow them down these new rabbit trails, okay?

24:16

No, friends, don't let them change the subject. As a matter of fact, I want you to do me a favor. Share this video with someone engaging others on this issue because we cannot let folks change the subject on us the way these ladies are to Charlie Kirk.

24:29

I think he's letting this happen. I think he's being gracious, but he should not, he should not at the end of the day do this.

24:37

He's probably trying to let them know that there's answers to all the questions that they're throwing at him.

24:42

There's answers to all these scenarios. But still, if he can just press them and keep them on the fundamental issues and questions, this would be a much better debate.

24:53

Another person have a right to, well, technically because abortion was legal when I was in utero, someone did have a right to my life and body.

25:01

And my mom chose life, praise God. So did all your moms. Yeah. Are you glad that she didn't have an abortion?

25:06

No. So you would rather be dead? I don't know. I mean, life can be difficult. If she didn't exist, you would not be able to even know.

25:12

Did I just hear that? She wishes that her mom aborted her? Is that, did she really just say that?

25:18

You never, you never materialized. A couple people wanted to come in really quick. It looked like you wanted to come in.

25:24

I'd like to give you an opportunity to speak. Then I think you had more pixie than Molly. Go ahead. Go ahead. Um, it was just back.

25:30

It's backtrack, um, just on what he was saying on not wanting to have the responsibility. Um, I think that's really, I don't really think that makes sense because I don't think sex is just for reproduction.

25:39

Um, it's just like asking you, you know, like every time I'm not trying to bring in your wife, but you know, every time you have sex with your wife, it's purely for reproduction.

25:46

I feel like that is very inaccurate. So, I mean, it's hard to expect everyone who isn't in a marriage to just not have sex just because they don't want to get pregnant or just because they don't want to have that.

25:55

Wait, did you make, did you even make the argument that sex is purely? No, I don't think you did. Angel's making a good point and I want to give her credit for this, which she's saying, and it can be misunderstood that I was saying sex is strictly for reproduction.

26:04

What I was saying is that everything in life has consequences and choices, right? And at times the mainstream predominant narrative is that sex comes with almost no downsides.

26:11

And we're going to give you either the technology, the procedure or whatever to try to limit those downsides. Um, but the difference is that when my wife and I have sex, if she results to be pregnant, which she did is that we live with that consequence, which happens to be a positive consequence, right?

26:25

A huge blessing. Now I understand what I'm saying is very, very radical and very unpopular, but the ideal should be far less people having premarital sex and trying to have sex within marital guidelines or the very least monogamous guidelines, okay?

26:36

So that if there was to be a pregnancy that that baby could be loved and cared for and brought into this world. I understand it's a hard ideal to even grasp and comprehend in a world where everything is very sex positive and sex abundant, but it's an ideal that I defend nonetheless.

26:50

I mean, I don't think there's any. Some great points here, you know, and this is the kind of wild worldview gymnastics that we have to engage in to deny the reality that sex is connected to a loving marriage and a loving marriage is the safe environment for the production of new human beings.

27:09

You don't need to go to scripture to make that argument. You could say that all by itself and hold your ground in a conversation like this.

27:16

On the other hand, as Christians, we need to recognize that this issue runs much deeper than even what's happening at this table, okay?

27:26

This issue, marriage, speaks theology. The deeds that we perform as married people in God's kingdom speak theology to the rest of the world.

27:36

It speaks of the design and the desires of our creator and the command that he gave us, right?

27:44

To be fruitful and multiply. That's why he gave this command. To leave father and mother and cling to your spouse and become one flesh.

27:53

And that is a much deeper conversation to be had still that I don't think many

27:58

Christians are having when they talk about sex and marriage. I think that's in contradiction with being sex positive but also wanting to help prevent unwanted pregnancies.

28:04

I would just say to those women and those people having sex that you should be using birth control and family planning methods to make sure that you don't have any unexpected pregnancies that you don't wanna have to skip the abortion part altogether.

28:14

I don't think anybody loves their abortion. I only said that people just don't regret them. Are you guys familiar with what's happening with the chemical abortion craze that's going on right now?

28:21

The pill? No, not the pill. That's different. I'm talking about where they're mailing chemical abortion packets.

28:26

Oh, yeah. Where women are bleeding out and emergency room visits are up nearly 300%. No, you guys should look into it.

28:32

It's a very serious thing. But why is that? Because it's becoming harder. It's because women don't have access to safe abortion.

28:37

So they start resorting to these sorts of methods. There's no such thing as a safe abortion. Let me be honest. Really? There were millions of women that got an abortion but you're gonna say that none of them were, all of them died after?

28:47

All the babies did. But did the women? Is it unsafe for a woman to procure an abortion? But it doesn't -

28:52

Answer that question. Is it unsafe for a woman to procure an abortion? Once again, this conversation does not matter.

28:59

It just does not matter one lick if you begin by defining terms, right? What is the unborn?

29:06

Is it a human being? Is it a human being at conception? If not, why not? You see how safe abortions and whether women have access, it doesn't mean anything if the procedure itself is the murder of innocent human beings.

29:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. I've seen enough. Okay. I think Charlie Kirk did a great job.

29:28

So I'm not familiar with him as a debater. I do know that he likes to go to colleges and kind of do the

29:35

Steven Crowder thing and sit outside and have conversations, important conversations with students and things like that.

29:41

And then of course, you know, TPUSA is a huge deal. So I, you know, I don't want to at all sort of downplay his influence.

29:50

I've just, I've not seen him speak before. I've not seen him debate. He seems though, now that I've watched him, to be somebody who has experience in debate.

29:59

If I'm right, he just, he allowed himself to be led around by these ladies into the various rabbit trails they took him on.

30:08

Presumably, again, to show them that there are answers to every one of their questions. However, my advice, if you want to get out there and you want to, you know, be like Charlie Kirk and do what

30:18

Charlie Kirk does, stay in control of the conversation. Don't follow people down these rabbit trails.

30:25

As a matter of fact, don't let them change the subject on you at all. Begin with the definition of terms and then let that guide the rest of the discussion.

30:34

Or else you will never truly clash in the areas that you need to on this issue. Okay, well now it's your turn.

30:41

What do you think? Did you see this full exchange? How did Charlie Kirk do? Let me know in the comments below. Very fascinating discussion.

30:49

The whatever podcast. Yeah, I don't get that podcast at all.

30:55

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31:07

Well, then we should read the Bible together and I'll show you how I do it. We're doing a Bible study right now for free for the Patreon community.

31:13

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31:24

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31:30

This is going to be an important video. I need your full attention. Huge news.

31:35

The hugest with regard to the channel and the Wise Disciple ministry. Okay, so hopefully I'll see you