Shadows to Substance Conference 2023 with Pastor Andrew Rappaport

Oh Andrew yes, sir my man Andrew Rappaport It has been such a blessing to get to know you a little bit better these past three days

That's because there was someone here other than you that was a punching bag You know

I've never seen a Presbyterian and a dispensational come so close together It just go if we're both gonna get ganged up on let's just do it arm -in -arm and support each other

But we're at the shadows to substance conference We're finishing out day three final day you your session your sermon was today

We've had great theological conversation after hours as well. We just got off the stage on a question -and -answer

But tell us first and foremost tell us a little bit about you and your ministry And then let's get into what you talked about today sure names

Andrew Rappaport Ministry I work for is called striving for attorney ministries. It's a discipleship ministry We also have part of way we disciples through podcast and we disciple podcasters

So we have the Christian podcast community, but we do we come in churches and do weekend seminars. We have a really strange model

Greg Most parachurch ministries are in you know they go to churches to help themselves

So they they want big churches where there's some money and people that will be active in their ministry

But the biggest area that we need help in is the small churches those churches that are under 50 people

No parachurch ministries helping them and so we have a model where we get our monthly supporters to help us

So we can go into those churches You got the bivocational pastor who would love to see the church grow love to get materials in his in the hands of people

But no one's doing it. We go to those churches. We go in for a weekend We try to train people up get them excited about the word and then leave some materials behind And so you see an event like this at the conference here this local church is gonna be sparked because of this

Yeah, they're gonna be encouraged. That's what we try to bring to a local church Can I tell you how important that is that work you're doing

I feel like For the first five years that I went to church in my 20s I was under a bivocational and he would have worked 45 plus hours at a

Ford factory And then you know come to church and do all the church function It is insane how much pressure those guys those churches are under so I appreciate you doing that and obviously he undersold himself

I mean globe is a global ministry He's an author podcaster and we're gonna link all that stuff up for you when this goes live

But what was your talk about today yours was? Well, I had the the topic of dealing with the offering of Isaac from by Abraham.

What a good topic though Yeah, especially for a guy that is is more as we've joked Dispensational I think he

I think he wanted to try to get me to Say something against my beliefs and and I thought the scriptures would come out different somehow

But no really what is because we're talking about shadows We're talking about substance sure and a lot of a lot of people think that Isaac is a type of Christ Isaac is a shadow of a future

Christ Sure, and as I just can't say that but there's a lot of similarities there

And I think really what I wanted to do was show that Abraham we refer to him as a man of faith and yet There's a lot of things in his life that we go.

I don't see a man of faith there. Yeah Yeah, you pointed those out. Yeah, I mean he's a he's a guy very much like us.

He fears men rather than God and he Struggles just like we do impatient impatient taking things in his own hands when he has a promise.

Yeah, and You know we look at him as a great man of faith Well guess what that's an encouragement to me and hopefully everyone else to say if Abraham could learn this lesson.

Maybe I can learn this lesson Now granted I'm not gonna live as long as Abraham But he was a hundred when he started finally getting the lesson so there's hope

Right and just to be clear too when you say I can't say that you explained it very well in your session

You're saying look at I don't want to go anything in my personal conscious or beyond what the Bible says

And you said something and let me let me tell me if I'm saying it right I think you said I would rather you know

Be before the throne and God say you didn't say enough, then you said too much correct Yeah, and boy if more pastors and people who evangelized took that and I'm not saying shut up Or don't say anything or be timid about your faith

You're saying make sure you're not out there saying thus saith the Lord correct if thus saith the Lord is not being said right

I don't want to go beyond what God says and then say God said this But do you have any issue if another believer seems to think that Isaac is a shadow?

Of Isaac or I mean that's a tertiary issue where you just go, okay? You see that but I'm not gonna preach that from the pulpit

Yeah, I think like Greg said when we were doing the discussion. He had a good point I'm a you know in private conversations with another brother go.

Hey, you know there's look This is this looks like that type of Christ, but do you preach it at a pulpit? There's a difference when we preach it at a pulpit right yeah, because when we're at a pulpit and we're preaching

We're we're saying this is what God has said yeah And that's different than just you and I sitting in jettering and maybe thinking rolling stuff around and I did that right

I? Mentioned in the sermon I had some sanctified imagination something that I believe But I can't support it in Scripture, and that's that's how

I would word it Yeah in a way of just saying in my opinion So it's really clear

I'm not saying this is what God says and because that's a mistake a lot of people do you get a lot of guys that Well, they they preach illustrations they preach

You know well even movies. Yeah, but they they'll say things that people then hear them say and they think something's in Scripture Yeah, that's not there.

Yeah, absolutely so what are some of the ways that Either Abraham or Isaac are a shadow of Christ Well, I there's a like I said a lot of similarities both you you have

Isaac Having two offerings, and this is one of the things I had mentioned right yeah It's not in this in the text, but I believe in my sanctified imagination that Isaac offered it

Isaac willingly Yeah was Willing to have Abraham sacrifice him so you have that you have the point of yes

Someone brought up carrying the wood you have the fact that they it seems they might have been you know on the same mountain, right?

There's so much there that we could go look at this it must be God. Yeah, but not everything that God does is

You know just say oh look You may disagree Presbyterian I As a dispensationalist

I believe everything points to the glory of God I can agree with that statement Yeah But so I'm not gonna say everything points specifically to Christ Okay, and then that becomes where we see a distinction then because I'm not looking for Christ in every text of Scripture right?

I'm looking for God's glory in every text of Scripture now when we see Christ. That's for God's glory

But yeah that does we have to be honest that that does make a difference in how we are going to trend or interpret

The Bible sure because if we're looking for Christ, and I see this situation with Abraham and Isaac I have to find

Christ in it I'm looking for this to be a type of Christ looking for right now Now you're now you're kind of reading the

Bible through that lens of looking for Christ because I agree you can't You're not going to find shadows or specific

Christ in all texts But you will in everything see glory glory to God right and and me being a good

Presbyterian in light As I said Right you have the the regular principle of worship

Yeah And I talked about that I and though I'm not really hard and fast on that principle when it comes to worship

I am hard on that when it comes to interpretation. Yeah, so when it comes to Scripture I I want to be say what

God says God's Word says and don't go beyond that that's good I'm probably inconsistent with my worship.

Yeah probably me too, so We've had a couple days together.

I know this is just gonna be a snippet. I know we talked offline We do want to have you back on for a full episode because not only are you a wealth of knowledge?

But a wealth of experiences your background I know we touched on sometimes when we go out to eat that you had a Jewish upbringing

Jewish yourself we talked about some of that and I find that very interesting so over all the years of ministry you've been on How has some of those experience affected your life?

Maybe your upbringing your ethnicity? How you know what led you to where you are now, and you got three minutes to do that That's an hour -long question

Ask a pastor to be quick Two areas one I would say one area. It really has helped me as an interpretation of Scripture Okay The reason being is because there are areas where I approach it with the understanding of what a

Pharisee would think yeah There's things we talked about the other I think last night about you know that area in the scripture where Jesus says you know

The son doesn't know only the father knows and people go. Oh see Jesus in his humanity doesn't know son in his deity

He does oh, this is such a good example. Please. Please repeat what you're gonna But I think I know what you're gonna say because when we look at this right

This is a Jewish idiom it's a Jewish idiom that refers to a marriage and the idiom is to live as if any moment is

The time so when I come to that passage and you look at the context it fits the marriage Sense it has that it is explaining to live life expectantly as if now is the time so the idiom works because that's the purpose of it and Where people start interpreting the idiom is because they didn't know it's an idiom

Well wasn't there some stuff to you of how the father prepared the house Yeah, things like that to you in the Jewish culture the father would the son would prepare house

He doesn't know when he's gonna get married. He goes. He's works on house when the house is ready He's just waiting when the father says it's time he goes in and that's the respect then he's gonna leave.

Oh look at this So so yeah, it's an idiom there, and you can kind of see that with your yeah

And so so once in that sense when it comes to interpretation. I think it's helped me to understand the Jewish culture

Yeah, that's still this Like you look at the Pharisees and you look at modern

Orthodox Judaism, and it's the same thing Yeah, the the other way that really helped me is and I didn't realize it

I remember when I was in college, and I turned to a friend of mine, and I said you know I'm so jealous I wish that I had

Your life growing up in a Christian home not having to battle not having to keep your faith hidden And I really thought that would be better, and he looked at me and says you know

Andrew I'm jealous of you like for me. Why and he said For you your faith is clear

Yeah You knew that when your parents found out they were gonna bury an empty casket you knew you you're gonna be cut off from your

Family my plan was to be able to take over the business for my father And so there was a real sacrifice there for you because it was clear -cut right.

Oh, yeah Yeah, and they did go you know I mean for people that know my testimony my parents when they found out two years after I Became a

Christian they went casket shopping Yeah, something happened in our family that they decided not to buy the casket

But my dad told me we went casket shopping Yeah, and you better stop this and I was like I'm not going to and he said well

Then I'm not paying for college, and I looked and I said well That's why I'm in ROTC and my dad never wanted his boys in the military because he almost got killed in the military

And so when he realized I already took steps to like I knew what

I was doing Yeah, and and he he did decide to continue paying my education which gave me a different battle

I never thought of but because when it came time for me to sign up or not for Army I had to make a decision and though I wanted to I felt after my father paying for my education

It would dishonor him. Yeah, I've done that so I chose not to yeah So those are all things that we like that's a little tease because when you come back on we're gonna spend a lot more time

In that because I'm very interested Just with your past and even the few things you told me over this weekend kind of started to get my

You know get something going in my head and go gosh I'd love to have you on for an extended period of time and talk about some of the

Sacrifices because and I'm not gonna expose anything here what we were talking about privately But just the relationship issues with the family the things that the sacrifices you had to make

And the fact that I am always a little bit jealous of people with Jewish heritage that are

Christians They can understand it So we're just grafted in as Gentiles like to have the richness of both of those knowledges

I think is so fascinating, but we're gonna save that for another time and guys We thank you so much for listening to another snippet from the shadows deceptions conference pastor

Andrew Thank you so much for being on brethren being gracious with your time. Thanks for having me and I love disagreeing with you

We're such fun Yes, but we agree on more than we disagree. But in the things we agree on are the important ones, right?

Yep guys Thanks so much for watching and as always the chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy him forever Godless be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at dead men walking podcast for full video podcast