Is Grounding Your Children a Biblical Punishment?

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The idea of just like sticking them in a room by themself in functional prison or whatever as a form of punishment like the issue is they

00:11

You're just feeding their sin warning the following message may be offensive to some audiences these audiences may include but are not limited to professing

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01:45

Welcome to Bible bash where we aim to equip the Saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions You're not allowed to ask where your host

01:52

Harrison Kerrigan pastor Tim wallet and today will answer the age -old question Is grounding your children a biblical punishment now

01:59

Tim as we kick this episode off and and discuss Grounding and as a punishment for children, what

02:05

Bible verse do you have to sort of set up the conversation for us? Sure. Yeah, if he says 426 says be angry and do not sin.

02:12

Do not let the Sun go down your anger Okay, so so how does that apply to?

02:19

This discussion around grounding your children. Yeah, I mean I was trying to think about what kind of verses to bring up as it relates to this topic, but in general

02:29

Grounding there's there's plenty of forms of grounding and grounding often is a type of disciplinary Action, which essentially results in delaying reconciliation.

02:39

So there's a lot of bad things that happen when you delay reconciliation so This is a good verse, you know, don't let the

02:47

Sun go down your anger meaning you need to Give no opportunity for the devil to be at work and be reconciled quickly with your accuser and all that okay, so the assumption then there is that grounding, you know, you're essentially there there's not reconciliation yet until the

03:07

Like the period the grounding period is over and and so because that's not Over until the very end of it.

03:14

Typically if you're gonna ground a child, it's gonna last longer than a day and so You're essentially you're as a parent.

03:23

You're essentially letting Letting unresolved sin go on. Is that what you're saying?

03:29

Yeah, I mean so a lot of this depends on what we're even talking about when we're talking about what grounding is so it may be right helpful to read a definition of grounding in order to get an idea for The variety of things that can fall under this heading, but you know issues think yeah.

03:44

Yeah as you think about grounding In general, this is just just a short description of grounding

03:49

So grounding is a disciplinary technique used by parents and guardians to manage their children's behavior It well, so notice that So it is something that the

03:59

Bible never mentions. Okay, like it at least in a direct way Okay, but it is a it is, you know a disciplinary technique used to manage children's behavior

04:09

It typically involves restricting the child's freedoms or privileges as a consequence of their misbehavior

04:14

This can include confining the child to their home limiting social interactions taking away access to electronic devices

04:22

Entertainment or other activities they enjoy The aim of grounding is to teach children responsibility and self -discipline to encourage better decision -making in the future

04:29

It's often used as punishment for breaking rules exhibiting disrespectful behavior or engaging in activities deemed appropriate by their caregivers

04:36

So again this framework, I mean You have like the concept of grounding and then like a timeout or something like that You know, all those things are, you know falling under similar kind of categories, but basically you're just like One typical grounding scenario is basically just to say hey, yeah, you know, you're stuck in the house.

04:56

You're stuck in your room You can't go anywhere. Can't talk to anyone You know, you're you're you're in the doghouse basically for a while.

05:04

Yeah, it's that kind of thing To where yeah, I I mean, I think some of that in there is fine, but then

05:12

In general grounding is questionable So when you say some of that is fine, do you mean like hey, it might be one thing to say

05:20

Hey, you're grounded from your phone For example for a week or something like that as opposed to like hey, you're grounded.

05:28

You're grounded. You can't leave your room We're not gonna see you, you know, unless like I guess we're eating a meal together, you know

05:35

Or we're going to church or something, you know, something like that other otherwise you're gonna be in your room alone

05:41

For X amount of time are you is that what you're thinking of when you're yeah,

05:46

I mean it's like if If you're just simply taking away, you know video games from the child or something along those lines as a result of bad behavior

05:55

Then I mean, I think that's largely neutral And but then I do question the implement implementation that many parents use when they're even talking about this kind of thing

06:05

So there's a wide variety of problems with the way in which this is carried out in general

06:11

But something like yeah All right Taking away privileges that certainly part of that's certainly a tool on a parent's arsenal

06:18

Part of the problem is that when you're isolating children isolating people for long periods of time away from you know

06:24

Other people away from the family away from social interactions that kind of stuff I mean all you're doing is you're confining them to their prison, right?

06:34

Yeah and letting them stew, you know on their bitterness like so like what you're what what often happens in these kind of situations is you're just Isolating a child making their life miserable functionally.

06:46

I mean it is like, you know treating them like they're in prison or something like that Restricting their you know access to people and and all that but put the put the orange jumpsuit on.

06:56

Yeah Yeah, now all you're eating is gruel. Yeah, I mean there's a sense in which there's you know, biblical

07:02

Reconciliation ought to be a very quick thing. It's not like a hey, you're you know, I'm mad at you go away

07:07

Right that kind of thing like I'm mad at you You're I we're gonna isolate ourself and you from everyone else so that you can appropriately feel your punishment or something along those lines

07:18

I mean that that is the opposite of pursuing quick reconciliation and In what you're doing is you're giving the devil an opportunity to stir up within that child's heart

07:30

You know a lot of feelings of bitterness and frustration and everything else. So yeah, I think that There that's a general problem with grounding

07:40

In the way that it's carried out in particular is like the idea of like isolating the child from people now

07:45

I mean like if they're like the issue is I mean if they're if Their friends are irresponsible

07:53

Like Making them take a week from those particular friends isn't necessarily a wonderful solution.

08:00

Anyways, do you understand what I mean? What explain that explain it a little more? Well, I mean if it's like a bad friend, it's a bad friend

08:07

You know the Proverbs says a lot to say about your friendships, but then taking a break, you know It's implying like hey eventually you can go back to your bad friends is that What you mean, right

08:21

Hey this week this week away from your prison friends oughta oughta do the trick

08:27

You know every time you go hang out with those friends you guys end up smoking weed, you know But so they're not good influence on you

08:33

So, you know, you're not gonna be able to see him for a month that this is how you're gonna behave It's like well, I don't really know that's the answer Do this particular problem like in that way, you know, so so part of us along those lines

08:43

I mean, I think the idea of taking away privilege like taking away their privileges When this is carried out like in real life, it often gets really weird and really arbitrary really quickly meaning meaning like they're

08:57

Good punishment shouldn't be Just these fits of anger that a parent has to where they just randomly assign some sort of arbitrary number

09:08

If that makes sense, you know, like yeah. All right. Well now I'm really mad So a lot of what's happening is the parent is mad and they're just trying to think of some

09:17

Vindictive way to get at their kid or something, right and it can be entirely arbitrary I mean like the kid may have no idea like how

09:25

What the number is gonna be this time and most of the time the numbers are so unrealistic and ridiculous and stupid

09:31

Anyways that the parent will end up caving on it. Anyways, if that makes sense So it's yeah, cuz they're so hard.

09:38

They're so hard to enforce and you you made a dish a rash decision Yeah in the heat of the moment kind of thing.

09:44

Yeah, you made a rash decision in the heat of moments like, okay Yeah, you're gonna be grounded from video games for six months, you know, and then the kids like yeah, whatever, you know,

09:51

I Hate you, you know, sure. Sure. Yeah, definitely. I'm definitely grounded for six months

09:57

You know to be you know to be fully transparent I mean, I there are plenty of times where you know

10:04

I would I would get grounded for something and then just you know Because I was a heathen and I wasn't you know,

10:09

I wasn't a Christian. I wasn't saved I didn't really care and I would just sneak, you know sneak behind my parents back and and Just do the things

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I was grounded from anyway, and then a lot so I said I was even more disobedient you know,

10:23

I was even more disobedient and then my and then some, you know, sometimes my parents would find out and it would be like a well

10:31

That's over I guess Yeah, so I think in general when you're thinking about punishments that you're going to enforce

10:39

If they don't need to be arbitrary They don't need to be reactionary. They don't need to be vindictive, right?

10:46

They don't need to be vindictive They need to be enforceable like so the whole point of a punishment is that you're going to actually enforce it

10:53

And you're gonna remember what it is, you know, so just signing assigning these arbitrary numbers

10:59

I mean it just like no one even knows like you don't even remember what the parent who does this kind of thing

11:05

Typically doesn't even remember that they did it So, I mean in general and that's just the best way to Provoke your children to anger.

11:13

It's just to in a fit of anger You know a sign of like some sort of punishment.

11:19

That's just like way over the top, right? Like punishment doesn't fit the crime or whatever way over the top is purely vindictive it's purely meant to punish them like it's just you know, probably often given in anger and Then impossible to enforce

11:34

I mean so a lot of that is just characteristic of the grounding phenomenon, right?

11:40

So yeah, so and then you're grounded for a month As you scream at the top of your lungs what the what the punishment will be.

11:49

Yeah, that is the stereotypical way This thing goes down, right? Stereotypical way it goes down as you're grounded for a month and then you know, maybe about a week later

11:58

It's like hey, can I go back to the thing now? I guess you feel bad enough, you know, it's in it or no

12:04

You know you ask again, you're gonna get grounded for two months, you know And then you know and then generally it just like it goes on and on and on it's like you're grounded for six months now

12:13

What did we say last time, you know, you know? Yeah, and then and then it gets so unenforceable that it's like it's just already, you know, yeah

12:20

Yeah, so I mean, yeah the nature of biblical punishments are that they need Like they need to be reasonable

12:27

They don't need to be vindictive they need to be enforced like whatever you say you're gonna punish them you need to do right

12:33

I mean you can make a foolish vow like Jephthah or whatever and then if you do you need to recant and repent or whatever else

12:40

But I mean in general what you need to enforce what you say. Yeah, it shouldn't just be some arbitrary thing The the child should have some sort of understanding of what the rules are.

12:50

Anyways, if that makes sense Mm -hmm. Yeah, like meaning they should they should they should have an indication of what is going to happen.

12:58

They do certain things It shouldn't just come out of your mind in a fit of anger or something. So, you know, those are all things that are features of You know biblical parenting in general and I mean

13:11

I just think that isolating a child like sticking them in the room so they can sit there and think about it or something like that all that does is just Delay reconciliation treat them like a prisoner and you're given the devil opportunity to you know

13:24

Plant a seed of bitterness in that child's heart So it's gonna be difficult to overcome for sure.

13:30

So in your mind, is there any difference between a grounding where you're saying?

13:36

Hey, like, you know, you're not gonna leave your room for the next week unless it's for school or for eating or for chores

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You know, whatever the exceptions are is there a difference in your mind between that and you know

13:48

Say you have a child that is just totally Like there's no they're so overwhelmed with anger

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Or you know, like they're just they're just totally losing it. There's no talking to them right now is sending that child, you know to their room for a few minutes to calm down and Just like removing them from the situation

14:13

For the purpose of being able to go and sit down and talk to them and explain, you know

14:19

Explain the situation Are those are those different in your mind or those the same scenario, you know the grounding for the week versus the

14:29

Removing you from the situation because there's no There's no getting through to you right now in the current state you're in.

14:37

Yeah I mean if you're there, I mean things have gone, you know, probably gotten pretty far down the road Right.

14:44

Yeah, like if you if that's where you are You've you know Probably failed at a lot of areas of parenting in general to where I mean that kind of thing really should be a last resort kind of tactic

14:54

To use anyways, but yeah I mean, I think the in the first instance Like the issue is this is a human being created the image of God and the

15:02

Bible says it's not good for man to be Alone, like he has a responsibility, you know He or she has responsibilities to other people

15:08

And like the idea of just like sticking them in a room by themselves and functional prison or whatever as a form of punishment like the issue is a

15:16

You're just feeding their sin, right? Like you're you're causing them to sin by isolating like, you know

15:23

The Proverbs says the one who isolates himself seeks his own desire, right? so like the so part of it's that like they have responsibilities to other people that you can't just Get rid of does that make sense?

15:35

Yeah, yeah like so like like hey, I'm gonna make you sit by yourself for a while It's like well, they need to be an other centered human being anyway

15:44

They don't need to be a self -centered So I I could think of very few situations where that is ever gonna make any kind of sense at all whatsoever

15:52

Just to cut off all their access to the outside world or something like that's That's not really the answer.

15:59

Okay, but then you know if you're in a fit of rage or something. Hey, you need to go you

16:06

Need to go and pray about what's happening right now And now like you can say that in a very calm way with the intention of coming in there and giving them a short period of time to go pray and Then come back in there to re -engage

16:20

But that's very different than what's what most people are doing when they're grounding like that. That's not what's happening

16:27

Right, yeah the purpose of the hey step away from the situation pray

16:33

Take a few minutes. That's all you know, and then like we're gonna come back together

16:38

So that we can talk about this fix it and fix it the whole the whole point of that is Reconciliation you're just telling them to remove themselves from the situation temporarily

16:49

Because there's no there is no reconciliation because they can't even listen to what's being said, right?

16:56

Right. So I mean that that's those are two different things But then the whole idea of doing something like that would be hey you need to go pray and I'm gonna go pray, right

17:07

Right. Yeah, so you need to pray I'm gonna pray And then we're gonna come we're gonna talk about this again

17:13

Because like the idea is we don't want to let the Sun go down in our wrath, right? Right. We need to quickly reconcile this because this is not a good situation and this is you know

17:23

Totally unacceptable in that way. But I mean like in the worst kind of case I mean you have the parents who were sending the child to the room for a week while they have all their stuff in there

17:34

They're like, all right fine, I'll go to my room Don't want to be around you anyways, you know, so I mean that's you know

17:44

You could be kind of shooting yourself in the foot, right? Yeah I mean if you want to create like a moody teen who doesn't like social interactions and doesn't want to be around anyone

17:53

It's just totally self like the foot, you know when who isolates himself seeks their own desire well I mean if you train them to isolate themselves and learn to it's easier to be by themselves than around other people because You know other people are what they are difficult then don't be surprised of what you get for sure

18:08

So do you think I'm gonna ask you this question and I want you to take it very seriously,

18:13

Tim Is it Abusive to ground your children.

18:20

Remember you take take this seriously. This is serious Tim. Yeah, I have no idea what that word means. So Yeah, I mean

18:29

I I It's bad It's bad parenting, you know, it's definitely

18:36

I I think is just it certainly is destructive to a child's

18:44

Sanctification to do that, you know So you're leading a hindrance, yeah, you're leading him into all sorts of sin by doing that kind of thing now

18:52

I mean, you know if we're just using grounding in the sense of like hey taking away privileges or whatever else like simple privileges not just like this

19:01

Isolate and in prison kind of thing long term and an art was setting arbitrary limits and all that I think there's some you know, there's obviously you

19:13

There's obviously I think some sort of biblical use of that kind of thing to say hey, yeah Well, I'm gonna take away privileges, but it shouldn't be a reactionary way.

19:21

It shouldn't be way out of proportion It shouldn't be done in anger and emotion in a non -enforceable way But then you know in general,

19:28

I mean, I think it's a little bit better to let them earn privileges instead of just arbitrarily Ban them sent from certain, you know privileges for undisclosed amount, you know

19:38

Undetermined or indeterminate amounts of time or something? Yeah, it seems like I mean it seems like God did that with you know with the

19:47

Israelites in the Old Testament, you know like I mean he you know

19:52

He exiled them from the promised land a couple of different times and then brought them back eventually and You know, obviously like with the

20:03

Israelites when they left Egypt they he revoked certain You know, he had he had given he had promised that he would you know, allow them to enter the land but then

20:16

It wasn't you know The people who the Israelites who left Egypt that got to inherit the promised land

20:22

But it was her children that got to inherit it, right? And so it seemed and then there's a lot of you know There's a lot of other examples along the way in the

20:29

Old Testament where it seems like God is Taking away these sort, you know, I don't know if I've ever heard anyone call them, you know, the

20:36

Israelites privileges But then he's taking away certain Gifts and things that he has given to them prosperity and wealth certainly peace

20:47

You know and given them like war and pestilence as punishments from time to time But then the dip but then the difference with God is, you know, obviously he's not doing that He's not doing any of this in like a uncalculated

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Uncontrolled Emotional way, right? He's he's doing it in the perfectly just way

21:07

Is that yeah. Yeah. Am I looking at all that, right? Yeah, I mean there's definitely blessings and cursings that come from disobedience

21:15

Obedience and disobedience within you know, the context of the Bible and that way and you know God will chase in those whom he loves.

21:22

So I mean he'll often, you know, give them trials He'll give them difficult circumstances and all that, you know, so all those things are certainly true

21:30

And it's not done in some capricious way. It's not done in some You know fit of anger or fit of rage or you know in anything along those lines,

21:38

I mean in general I mean if there are things that they're doing that are destructive, right? if there are things that they're doing that are destructive then

21:47

I mean I think it's better to like let them earn certain privileges and you know

21:53

Certainly like the more responsibility they show the more privileges they get. Okay So, I mean

21:59

I think like the idea is like if you can imagine the seesaw analogy In general like just imagine like a parent and a child standing on the opposite on the opposite sides of a seesaw

22:10

But when they're little you're both standing, you know at the very base of that seesaw holding hands or whatever, right?

22:17

So there's no freedom. There's no responsibility there. You're right there with dad mom But then as you back, you know as they get older You should be backing up a little bit on the seesaw or whatever and giving them more freedom like freedom distance

22:31

Responsibility right privileges, but then when they break trust Then you step back in closer and remove some of those, you know freedom responsibility and provision

22:40

But like the issue is you're gonna let them earn it back, right? Like because the idea is you want them at the end of the seesaw and then when they're growing up when they're grown up to Get off, right?

22:52

Yeah, yeah, it's time to quit playing with seesaws. You're 32 I Mean the idea is like what you what you're trying to do is yeah

23:01

I mean when you violate trust and you know, you lose some privileges and you lose some responsibility

23:07

Can't you because you've shown yourself to be? Untrustworthy, but the issue is like you you don't want to just sit in that as some kind of indefinite punishment forever, right?

23:18

Like the issue is I want you to earn this back, right? Yeah, the point is you're supposed to grow up Like the ultimate goal is for you to be an independent adult, okay

23:28

That's the ultimate goal. So this is like the issue is yes when we take a step back It's because I want to take it or when we take it, you know

23:37

We have to take it step closer to each other It's because ultimately I do want to take a step back again.

23:42

It's like the issue is not just your You have violated trust and you know,

23:48

I'm gonna keep you in a prison Chains and bondage make your experience miserable and then finally,

23:54

I'm just gonna turn you loose on society at the end of it or something I mean like the goal the goal of all this is like very redemptive and a lot of what's happening in grounding is not

24:04

There's not some kind of I'm Like a redemptive goal. Like it's not really aimed at reconciliation.

24:11

It's not gained it like character growth, right? It just turns into arbitrary random angry fits of punishment kind of thing

24:19

So what about and and hear me out on this one Tim you've been you've been mentioning a lot throughout this episode the sort of arbitrary nature of punish of Grounding, you know where it's like hey, you're grounded for the next month and it's like well,

24:37

I don't you know What was the calculation that got you to a month, right?

24:42

All right. Well, what about instead of that? We just use you know Biblical time frames instead so, you know, you know what

24:51

God made the world in in six days. So you're grounded for six days Or or you know, if maybe if it's a little worse, you know what?

25:02

You know God let it rain for 40 days and 40 nights so you're grounded for 40 days and 40 What what about something like that?

25:11

Does that fix the arbitrary nature of it in your mind, or is it still too arbitrary? Well, I think you

25:16

I think there needs to be like something communicated to them like as they come the front end

25:23

Okay Okay, like here's what happens when you do X and then it's clear in their mind what's gonna happen if X it happens, right?

25:32

Yeah, like meaning like this isn't like this is I don't know that the biblical numbers are really the point

25:40

Like the issue is like I thought you would like that Trying to communicate to them like the rules ahead of time so that when they violate them

25:51

They know what's going to happen is a lot better method of parenting in general

25:58

So like it's not just like random up in the air who knows what's gonna happen. Who knows what you're gonna do

26:04

You know, it's not that kind of thing But then like the goal like so, you know, that's it would be better to not have arbitrary numbers

26:11

Sure, it would be better to like communicate that on the front end But then you do have to think about what are you what is the objective in this is the objective in this just to?

26:21

All right, you did something wrong. Now, you're gonna be miserable for You know like indefinitely forever.

26:28

I mean, I think it's better to have quicker Punishments, you know kind of thing over and against like these extended kind of you know

26:36

Long -term propositions were basically the whole point of them always say we're not good.

26:42

You know, you're not good with us We're not good with you. You're not good with other people, you know, you're just isolated and so I think to the extent to which

26:50

You can make it a you know, a quicker easier thing like that And not just like an end, you know, not just this extended ongoing misery

27:01

Right, it's like your whole childhood is like one form of Okay You know like you're going in and out of like different forms of misery, you know your whole childhood

27:12

Over and against just like dealing with things quicker Moving on. Yeah And then you know having a clearer path of like, how do we resolve this?

27:23

Right? So how do we use all this thing? So, you know you'd be in the goal is like hey,

27:29

I want you to Have more privileges that less privileges, right? Right?

27:35

Yeah, I want you to be more independent not less independent Right, right.

27:40

Sure Okay. Well, I think that's a good place for us to wrap up the conversation and you know, obviously this is this

27:48

This is one of those things that pretty much everyone has dealt with or is dealing with it

27:53

You know, whether you're the child in the scenario who is facing the punishment or you or you're the parent

27:59

You know looking at your children asking yourself and you know looking to the Bible Asking, you know, how do

28:06

I raise my children? Well, how do I you know teach them to fear the Lord? Well, how do

28:12

I teach them to interact in society? well and be independent, you know independent human beings like you're saying and and You know,

28:22

I I think I think most parents they they kind of just look at grounding as one of those like it's just a given

28:28

It's just what you do, right? And and I don't really know. I don't really know where that came from exactly but but it makes sense what you're saying, especially, you know thinking through punished through punishment and discipline with children in general as a

28:42

Hey, there needs to be reconciliation as soon as possible The point of this is not to make the child miserable or in other words, you know provoke them to wrath

28:52

Right, the the point is to teach them how to be responsible and teach them that in society there are rules

29:00

You know God gives us rules to follow and we have to follow them

29:06

We can't just ignore them because we don't like them or we don't want to follow them or we're we feel too lazy to follow

29:11

Them or we think we're better than those rules or whatever. It is The point is to teach them that that's not the case and that they have to they have to play by the rules

29:21

Right and and in so doing they'll be responsible and so doing even more importantly, they'll be honoring the

29:27

Lord And and so that's certainly that's certainly something to think through as for parents and for children thinking through, you know

29:36

Maybe maybe that'll help some children understand Why why am I getting all these punishments in the first place?

29:42

Well, you know Hopefully it's because and it should be because your parents love you and want to train you up in the way that you ought to walk

29:48

So that you won't depart from it when you're older So but with all that being said we appreciate you guys for listening to the podcast for supporting us week in and week out

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