November 30, 2017 Show with William F. Hill, Jr. on “How to Choose a Church & How to Leave it When Necessary”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us Iron sharpens iron so one

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour.

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Now, here's our host Chris Arnton.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth.

We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com.

This is Chris Arntz and your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 30th

day of November 2017 and I'm delighted to have back on the iron sharpens

iron radio program William F Hill jr.

He is the former host of the confessing our hope podcast of

Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylors, South Carolina, and he is also a

pastor of the Fellowship Presbyterian Church in Newport, Tennessee, which is

a congregation within the Presbyterian Church in America Also commonly known as the

PCA and today we are going to be Speaking on a very

important and I think a very practical and very common issue

That needs to be addressed and that is the issue.

It's actually two issues that will we be discussing over the next two hours that are related to the same

Theme basically it is how to choose a church and how to leave it when necessary.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio Pastor Bill Hill.

Hey, it's always a pleasure to have you on brother and in studio with me is my co -host the Reverend buzz Taylor and hello

Good to be on again.

And if anybody would like Great.

Thanks.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris a RN z n at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside

the USA and A topic like this I could readily understand someone

Desiring to remain anonymous.

In fact if you're mentioning a specific church

Well, obviously I wouldn't identify the church by name and I wouldn't identify you by name either

because Obviously if there's some kind of a problem in the church where you are and you're leaving or something

like that I wouldn't want to Identify either you or the church so but I can understand many of you

voluntarily wanting to Remain anonymous if it is about a personal and private matter in

regard to the topic.

But if it is not about a personal and private matter Please give us at least your first name city and state and country of

residence if you live outside the USA.

Well, first of all Before we go into the theme pastor bill if you

could let us know even though you've already done this We have new listeners

Joining the iron sharpens iron radio audience every day.

It seems.

So why don't you tell us a listeners about a fellowship Presbyterian Church in Newport, Tennessee?

Yeah, sure be glad to.

As you've already mentioned, it's a congregation of the Presbyterian Church in America.

They were established in 1985 having come out of the

PCUSA at that time and.

So I would encourage my friends those who

area we're about 40 minutes from there.

We are the only conservative Presbyterian Church in the county.

In fact in surrounding counties.

And so I came to the church in August of

this year after 18 years

serve God's

people.

So we're plodding on in the kingdom and trying to minister this community as best

we're able.

With the research that's what we're doing and that's what I'm doing now

with my wife.

I can't make I can't forget my wife.

I mean, she's right there next and I'm assuming

that one of the reasons you said that is she's actually next to you right now.

Actually, no, she's not.

She's actually in Sevierville somewhere doing something with her cell phone.

Anyway, she's been unhappy with our curtain carrier.

Well Pigeon Ford actually sounds familiar.

Is that the home of Dolly Parton.

Perchance.

It is

In

the

county.

Reverend buzz Taylor has something to say.

Isn't that also where gospel music television is isn't it Pigeon Forge, Tennessee?

You meet you you're probably right.

I don't.

You know, I as a guy who's it.

I like

that.

Ring to it, you know.

Yeah, that

seems odd that in a place like that which is I'm assuming is rural that you wouldn't have

more conservative Presbyterian Congregations out there.

That's interesting.

You mean

they have no other options

if they're Presbyterian.

Well,

that's true.

Well since Chris

brought it

up though, you

know, we could cut

this conversation short by saying.

How do you choose a church?

Will you get your local PCA directory out and you look up where you are?

Well, I have a I have a feeling.

Well, actually I have a sneaky suspicion that you wouldn't recommend that our listeners go to any PCA church

that was on a directory but anyway.

Yeah,

and even

myself I don't.

Wholeheartedly recommend every single Reform Baptist Church on the planet to people and

typically the differences would be more involved on How much

authority the eldership is given in the congregations and so on.

You typically a Reform Baptist Church will adhere to the 1689 confession and be fairly

similar to one another in Theology.

Yeah with some differences, but there is there is a difference between governmental approach as far as how much authority

elders should have in the congregation.

But that's for another story and another opportunity.

That's right and we are talking about as I will repeat now the first hour we're going to talk

about how to choose a church and then we're gonna be talking about in the second hour how to leave a church when

necessary and Actually my co -host the Reverend Buzz Taylor has never even had to think

about the second issue because every time he's left the church It's been involuntarily.

I.

Really comic relief I think.

But anyway, well Yeah, well

obviously There are a lot of reasons people choose a church and

we're gonna reign it in to a Sphere of people

who are really concerned about theology because we wouldn't have time To address every

issue.

That is a reason why people join a church because many of them are absolutely absurd.

Even the reasons why many evangelicals join a church is absurd and Or at

least at the at what should for what should be the lowest rung on the

ladder of importance?

But you even have people as you may know bill.

There are people out there who would agree with you and I very closely on theology, but still

will choose a church to join because It has many programs for their kids.

Because they love the music.

Because they love the band or the orchestra Because they love the building or whatever it is.

They will even forfeit being fed sound theology Even if a church

is in an is in reasonable driving distance to them in favor of a church.

Like the one I just mentioned and I'm assuming that you would be very disappointed in hearing from Family friends and

loved ones if they were making a decision based on things like I just mentioned.

How

many

times

have

you heard

it.

Really never.

Wow.

That's that's interesting.

Well you said the way you phrased it was Godly elders who are committed to

the true teachings of Scripture.

I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember exactly what you said.

But I remember godly elders came out first.

So let's start with that.

I'm assuming that that would be a number one priority that the elders are godly and

to tell you the truth, I would prefer.

And I could see myself likely going to and I don't have to make a decision like that.

Now because I do have a church where I'm a member who that has godly elders but if

I had a choice to make In regard to a Church that was

theologically identical to my beliefs but their

Their elders were behaving in somewhat of a nutty fashion.

Perhaps they were tyrannical dictators.

And I knew of a church that disagreed with me on some issues.

But they really truly believed and taught the gospel and the pastors or the elders were godly

men and they were faithful shepherds.

And they weren't missing some screws from the toolbox upstairs I

would prefer.

Going to the church that is less in alignment with me theologically, but the elders were godly and

faithful shepherds.

Would do you it would you agree with that statement that I just made?

I.

Do I do have a television set.

I realize.

We could deal with the

question of whether they should submit or not it just be

a blanket statement.

Well, you know these guys are elders.

Therefore you all right.

I know that I want to ask you about questions.

We should specifically be asking the elders of a church before you join it.

But but Reverend Buzz Taylor has a question that he's itching to ask.

Yes.

I just wonder how you would define or recognize if the elders or and a particular

elder is going Too far in his role of leadership or I'm

not an awarding it over to the people.

Yeah.

Isn't it good to ask people that may live in the area who you admire who you look up to

people of the same denominational structure or theological background.

To be that way to be overbearing let's just use that word.

I think that's probably is obviously always in front of you.

I've been I've been aware of

my own inadequacy for people

or I can be less than patient and Long -suffering in the

Lord and his kindnesses has been teaching me in my

current call dances that I might not want to

sheep overall.

How do you identify it?

I don't know those things where you just kind of know when you see

it

should be nosy.

Um, and and again that has to be parsed out those things.

We just kind of know it and and as you as you visit a church, and I'm not suggesting that you

join the following week

you begin to realize that these men actually care for your

soul and

They truly shepherd and

bump you along as pilgrims in this world and frankly

as one who's been doing it for about five years now.

Bumping someone in the right direction then coming down on top of them with that with a

stick.

People don't react very well.

And so.

It's a whole lot better and it

just got to do that.

Because you immerse yourself in the life of the church, you know,

I think it's.

By the way bill, I don't know if I don't know if you're conscious of moving your face away from the

phone or something like that.

But you have been at times fading away to inaudible.

Speaking where you're muffled really badly and we can't understand you.

I don't know if you're just.

I take that as the providence of which.

Pretty

sure I

can't

see

because.

Can't

submit

you

can't

voluntarily

submit.

They got their

own failing in

the right direction.

The

people.

Just to let you know, you're fading away right now.

So We're going to a break right now, I

don't know if you're home.

You could call us back as we're going.

Okay, we're going to a break.

We're going to a station break right now.

So I'd be good best for us to hang up and you call back if anybody would like to join us.

Okay, great.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own we already have several of you waiting and

We'll get to as many of you as we can.

But if you want to get in line our email address is Chris Arnzen and gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

God William God.

Willing.

Not God William God willing with William FL and more of our

discussion on Why or how to choose a church and how to leave?

Whenever necessary don't go away.

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Well, we are now back with our guest William F Hill jr

Former host of the confessing our hope podcast of the Greenville Presbyterian theological theological

seminary in Taylor, South Carolina, and he's also the pastor of Fellowship Presbyterian Church,

which is a PCA congregation in Newport, Tennessee.

We are discussing two themes today.

We are right now discussing how to choose a church and during the second hour God willing We will discuss

how to leave a church when necessary.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if

you're asking about a personal and private matter and I don't know if you heard me before the break

Pastor bill, but I said we'll be back after these messages God William and I meant to say God

willing.

Well.

We do have before I go to some more questions of my own I'll go to some of our iron sharpens iron

listener audiences.

Great audience questions.

I should say and I have to enlarge the first one because the font is

microscopic.

So I have to.

Let's see, we have David in Ada, Ohio.

David says I have.

I have always the Bible example.

I think he's missing a word.

I have always the Bible example of choosing a church.

Was I get but I guess what he meant to say was I have always thought.

The Bible or biblical example of choosing a church was to attend in the area

that you live in ie Galatians.

Attending in Galatia instead of traveling to Corinth today.

It seems people travel for an hour or more passing very good churches Along the way

to get to a church that has a better worship service ie a group of praise singers and a

band.

They talk about the worship service, but not about the preachers message.

Also, it is it necessary for a Calvinistic Reformed Baptist to go?

To to go such distances to attend a church they agree with.

What about just Christians worshiping with each other.

Instead of dividing according to theology.

Am I of Paul or Apollos?

Thanks.

Well, obviously our guest is not a Reformed Baptist, but he's pretty close.

Probably a lot closer than he cares to admit, but it's still pretty close

and in fact even over polity.

I Think that you and I and Reformed Baptists and Presbyterians

do have a lot in common with polity in regard to the local church polity where we part

company would be presbyteries and denominational hierarchies outside of a local congregation.

Because we believe in the local autonomy of the congregations, but if you could

we bet we could we did kind of touch on that already, but.

Is it appropriate for people to be passing by all these good churches.

Getting to a church that is not local to them I'm assuming the key

phrase there is you're passing by good churches.

Yep

written

on

this I

have

it on

this until

though to

worship

on

the Lord's

function

on Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday

Friday and Saturday and.

And if you're an

hour away, and

so I'm

often

concerned.

Solidly

reformed

or

solidly

church

that

we like a

little

bit

more

it

strikes

it

on the

altar

of

proper.

They're not about show, but they're all about the kingdom of Christ.

Drive

past

a few

Baptist

churches

to

get

other

choices.

I'm

gonna

be ministered to

maybe disagreement.

Okay, I know

you're

reformed.

Well obviously the choice is a lot easier to make especially if you are of an age

where you are pretty certain you're not going to have any more children and the whole issue of infant baptism

is not going to.

Come up unless it comes up in a sermon of course.

But it's not going to come up as far as a part of your practical life.

If that is an issue that it no longer applies directly to you.

I mean.

Yeah,

pragmatically

practically

right

I

mean what I

think

you

need to realize

that at

the end

of the

day

it

and I would be not but.

That's okay.

Well.

I.

Also in the reverse would much more likely join

a Presbyterian Church If there was not a reformed Baptist Church close by

over an Armenian Baptist Church exactly.

The.

Arminian is an Arminian Baptist Church situation

when we say

Arminian

work.

I could

not.

Well you know we have a first time that I can recall right now.

I Just realized this after reading the question.

I didn't really realize this when I first got the email.

But we have an email from the very wife you were speaking about earlier.

We have a quick.

We have a question from Gwen Hill.

I'm sorry.

And.

No, no she said that this is the wife who your guest was speaking about.

The does buzz said the five -foot -one -one.

She says I have often wondered whether it would.

I don't know if you're hearing me now.

But she says I have often wondered whether it would be helpful for members of a church who are thinking of

leaving to have a sort of exit interview which could address the concerns

or Conflicts of those breaking fellowship and vows of membership.

It would seem that open conversation might both show concern From the session and allow for

churchgoers to share their concerns, and then she says yes.

This is the wife of your guest today.

We'll have that we'll have you answer that it's an excellent question and we'll have you answer that when we return from our midway

break because it's.

We're already over the time when we should have departed to our midway break.

And if anybody wants to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name.

City and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA and don't.

Please only remain anonymous if you are asking about a personal private matter.

Don't go away.

God willing.

We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

Tired of box -store Christianity of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert.

Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

And how about the preaching.

Perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

Well, there's good news.

Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience.

Featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.

Call them at six three one nine two nine thirty five twelve for service times six three one

nine two nine thirty five twelve or check out their website at Wrbc

.us, that's wrbc .us.

I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in -depth study used by pastors scholars and everyday readers.

The NASB is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible translation.

The NASB offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages.

Which the NASB is known for.

The NASB is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible.

Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy.

The new topical reference Bible includes contemporary topics relevant to today's issues.

From compacted giant print Bibles find an NASB that fits your needs very affordably at NASBible

.com.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Sarnes and before we return to our guest William F Hill jr

In our discussion on how to choose a church and how to leave it when necessary.

Before we return to that we have some important announcements to make in regard to special events that are coming up

in the near future That are being arranged and hosted by our sponsors.

Well, first of all Marcus a McKnight the third attorney -at -law here in

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He's also a former elder in the church where I am a member Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

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Well now we are back To our discussion with William F Hill jr Who

is pastor of Fellowship Presbyterian Church, which is a PCA congregation in Newport, Tennessee and as I

said, we're discussing how to choose a church and Now we are entering into the phase of how to leave it when

necessary.

And we will start off this hour With a question from our

our listeners or I should I say our guests wife Gwen Hill and I will

repeat the question and it is an excellent one.

And I think that we our listeners should take this to heart.

Let's see.

I have to enlarge Gwen's question, too.

So, let me repeat our email address while I'm doing that our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

If you have a question of your own, please only remain anonymous.

If it is a personal and private question, okay, here it is.

I have often wondered whether It would be helpful for members of a church who are thinking of leaving to

have a sort of exit interview Which could address the concerns or conflicts of those breaking fellowship and

vows of membership.

It would it would seem that open conversation might both show concern from the secession from the

session and Allow for churchgoers to share their concerns.

So if you have an answer to your wife's question pastor bill.

Very

carefully

wants

you to

move to

another

church

that

preaches

the

gospel

and

and

and

maybe

the

reason

with

their

congregation.

But

yeah,

well, I

would

think

that.

Gwen's Suggestion would be excellent because for many reasons, but one of which

would be it may even prevent the person or family from departing because

they may realize after the conversation that this was an Oversight on

the part of the elders that they are willing to rectify.

It might be who knows It could be a host of things.

It could be that the very people who are leaving misunderstood something People are very paranoid

including myself at times.

I can remember especially as a new Christian I can remember sitting there in that pew and thinking to myself this

guy has like a private detective following me.

What's going on?

These sermons are about me.

And in fact, I remember even one time.

I mean it was in reality.

I Guess a sad Circumstance, but I couldn't help but find it funny When

this woman who was visiting the church got up in the middle of the sermon and

And said how dare you and stormed out of the building?

This was a friend of my late wife's and I ran out into the parking lot to ask the woman what was going on?

And she swore that my pastor Somehow found out

personal information And was bringing it up in the service my pastor later told me that he never

had met this woman before in his life and He didn't even know who she was but but it shows you how the Holy Spirit can minister to people

providentially like that, but that's just an example of People can be very often under

Misunderstandings because they never speak as the principles set forth to us in Matthew when you have

either a problem against your brother or your Brother has a problem with you.

We're supposed to be speaking to these people one -on -one first and if you don't get anywhere you take it to the

church, but Lack of communication can draw people to all kinds of erroneous conclusions.

Well, of course you meant the Lord the omniscient Holy Spirit, you know, I.

May not have known about it.

But but then again, maybe I did.

And What you know when I preach I'm preaching to a group of people that I'm shepherding.

I know their lives.

I'm troubles them I know what doesn't trouble them.

I know the sins.

People that aren't there.

Preaching to I mean, yeah, of course I was talking about you you were in the room and I know your life.

And

what

I

thought

was

an only

thing

about

wake at

night going.

Preferential

reason.

It's

not

a Doctrinal reason, you

know, but before we get to that.

I think that we should at least go through some of the questions that people should ask when they

are considering joining a church.

Because I think that that would be very wise for people to ask questions and

obviously Unless the person already knows this wouldn't you say the first thing that you would ask is

what?

Confession or creed does your church hold to.

Or what is your church's statement of faith?

And if you could pick it up from there.

Yeah.

Sure to become

dictator trained in

theology in them and

and listen to them and submit

to them even when

I don't agree with

sometimes.

Is he up there giving his own opinions as to what the Word of God says is if they're sharing his own experiences.

Or is he preaching?

Expositionally through the scripture is at

the end of it.

No, because you know, obviously if the man doesn't preach the Word of God is

he's up there.

You don't

need that you're

full to

the Word

of God

even you know

where beyond

that in prostration

circles in the PCA.

We have a confession of faith.

The larger and shorter catechisms the Westminster confession of

faith.

That's what our

Word of God

teach.

Well, I guess it depends on how strongly you hold to the regulative principle.

Some people might really be incapable of worshiping in a place where if they felt that

strongly about their conscience.

I.

May

not

like it.

I'm gonna ask a

question and have you answer it when we return and we're gonna go to a boy.

We're gonna go and we're going to

go to our final break, which is going to be a short break or shorter or at least.

And I'm also going to forward you a question.

In fact, I think I did already.

I did already have it right in front of me.

Yeah, Joe from Slovenia sent a question.

That was rather long.

So I thought I'd give you a chance to look that over but my question.

If you think this would be a wise question to ask Before joining a church, which is probably some

question that hardly anybody has ever asked my question would be.

Does your church practice discipline and if so When was

the last time you did it and if so?

Without being Overly detailed where you were violating confidence and so on.

Can you tell me why that occurred?

And if you could answer that if whether or not you think that's a Valid or good question or wise question

when we return from the break and if anybody else wants to join us.

This is the time for you to get in line and ask your question before we run out of time.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris ar n is e n gmail .com.

Don't go away.

God willing.

We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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Hi, I'm Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens.

Iron radio.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

This is the last 23 minutes or so of our Interview today went by like a bullet as I knew it would

and our guest has been will continue to be William F Hill jr.

The pastor of Fellowship Presbyterian Church in Newport, Tennessee.

We are discussing how to choose a church and how to leave it when necessary.

And now is your time to send in your email or forever hold your peace.

Our email is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

If you have a question for our guest regarding the topic and give us your first name.

City and state and country of residence.

And if you have to remain anonymous Please only do so if it's about a personal and private matter.

And before the break before we go to Joe and Slovenia's question.

Before the break I asked you do you think it's a good question to ask when looking for a church to join?

Do you practice church discipline if so?

When

was the

last

time you

did it

and

why'd

you

do

it

to

do

it?

I don't I lose sleep over it.

Frankly.

It's hard,

but but it's

necessary for there's

unrepentant.

Yeah, I think that not only will you Get a handle

On whether or not this church that you're considering to join considering joining.

Whether or not they even believe in it they may be they may be a moderate to liberal Modernist kind of

evangelical church that doesn't even believe in church discipline.

Or they could be the reverse they could be a an authoritarian heavy -handed church

that perhaps has disciplined someone because they Bought a car

without getting the permission of the elders.

You know, there are there are churches out there that have such a harsh an Extreme form of

Authoritarian eldership that if you got to go to the elders for practically any decision you make and it really

emasculates The husband in his own home if he has to run to the pastor's for permission all the time,

but I think and also.

I.

Think it's just a wise decision to know why they may even wind up putting you under

discipline.

If if you don't know that beforehand I want to let everybody and I'm not gonna take a long time to do this because they can go to an

interview I did in the past by typing in Grimaldi J.

I'm sorry G -r -i -m -a -l -d -i.

That's my former pastor's name Mark Grimaldi.

I interviewed my my former pastor my most recent former pastor on Church

discipline because he and my elders disciplined me.

I was under church discipline at one point for a Scandalously

Addictive addictive behavior or abuse of alcohol.

I was a drunkard seriously dangerous Drunkard as to the level of alcohol.

I was consuming and if they did not put me under church discipline.

I.

May not be alive today with air in my lungs and a beating heart to be doing this program and by the way just to

just to confirm and to let you know I was restored to full fellowship after repentance and

After going after going to a ministry in Boone, North Carolina Hebron colony ministries, which is

a drug and alcohol rehabilitation ministry.

So I just want I just want to let our listeners know that being under church discipline is not the end of life for

you if you if you Obey what the Lord has to say in the scriptures and you go along with the

discipline and you repent and so on Doesn't need to be the end of the road for you.

If you belong to cry Hebrews

13, let me do it all

in

the right.

He's gonna

bring

you to

a place where

you're

gonna

bow

the

knee and say

my job

that

that's not a

joke.

This is

not

something

that

what

they had

done

was so

obviously they

practiced

your

discipline.

They're not

a church without

it.

When I.

And of course you could have

a situation where the elders say well to be perfectly honest.

There's only 20 members in our church and God just providentially brought us Faithful godly people and we haven't had

the opportunity or the reason that warranted it yet.

So, I mean that would be an honest and legitimate answer.

All right, let's

go.

Let's actually

go to the next

question before we

run out

of time.

Joe in Slovenia, and of course, we're gonna have to adjust this you're gonna have to adjust it to a

Presbyterian answer but he says.

Dear brothers Chris and William some have argued that the second London's London Baptist Confession of Faith

is Too detailed for a whole congregation to affirm.

They suggest having different levels of subscription to the confession.

The first level being that all who have a credible profession of faith expressed in believers Baptism

meet the minimum requirement for church membership.

Faith in Christ together with a teachable spirit of unity in Christ is all that is required for church membership.

The second level would be full subscription for officers elders deacons meaning that they affirm and

teach every doctrine in the church's confession of faith.

If a church doesn't already practice these two levels of Subscription and one wanted to join but couldn't in good

conscious conscious But couldn't in good conscious conscience Totally

affirm all the articles fully would it be appropriate to ask for membership?

At the first level.

Is this an acceptable way to find and join a confessional church?

Well, obviously it doesn't really matter.

If he's talking about the second London Baptist Confession of Faith the Westminster.

Let me tell

you how we do it in the

PCA or require

people who are paying attention.

I.

Require

of us

each

other

because we

all

have the

same

interpretation, right?

It's all articulated

in our

confessional.

Amen.

Yeah, I when I became a member of Calvary Baptist Church in

Amityville, Long Island, New York where I was baptized if you have any bill, that's right.

That's where I was born and raised and Yeah, well, I've used to

pass that house nearly every week of my life.

Yes, they did.

That because it was such a obviously visible connection, but what

the Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville which is no longer exists because it merged into What is

now Grace Reform Baptist Church of Merrick Long Island?

But This is the first Evangelical Church having been raised Roman Catholic that I ever

joined and I did not believe in Calvinism at the time I was seeking membership and they told

me as long as you submit to the fact that that is what the elders here believe and You

cannot or should not or must not undermine or attempt to undermine that authority, right?

We will welcome you with open arms and within months within about two months the Lord opened up my eyes to those

things.

Let me let me ask our final question of the day that we have time for Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama

Asks, what is your guests opinion of church covenant agreements which members are required to sign?

There have been many interesting stories in recent years concerning congregations that refuse to let certain members resign.

In one case a member of the pastoral staff readily admitted that the leadership team intended to

chase down a certain former member rejecting that members resignation.

Only so they could turn around and kick that member out of the congregation.

In many cases the language of the church covenant appears calculated to protect the church from

Errant members, but not so much to protect the church member from the church leadership if you could

comment.

That's the last question we have time for.

Well, I guess someone might want to Escape discipline and they say

guess what guys?

I know that you want to put me under discipline for being an unrepentant alcoholic, but I'm gone.

I quit.

That's

the way

right.

No longer a member of.

So, where are you going?

I'm going anywhere right now.

I haven't

figured.

Billy

for you

spiritual

can't do that.

You can't submit to your authorities if you're not a member of a church.

That so it's.

It's makes no sense.

The Bible is explicit about that and.

But we are out of time and I knew that we would fly by in time before we finished what

we wanted to say.

But that's the way it typically is an iron sharpens iron.

I know that your website is fellowship dash PCA org.

Fellowship dash PCA org.

Thank you so much pastor bill.

We look forward to your return to iron sharpens iron radio.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior Than you

are a sinner.