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July 27, 2022
BRIAN BORGMAN, Founding Pastor of Grace Community Church of Minden, Nevada, who will address:
“PASTORAL THEOLOGY”
& announcing the 2022 Northwest FIRE Regional Fellowship in Prineville, OR!!!
Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.
It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris Arnzen.
Good.
Afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity Living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on the 17th day of July 2022.
I am thrilled to have as a first-time guest someone With whom I have been familiar for quite a long time. Due to a very close mutual friendship with dr. Conrad and Bayway Who I have had the honor and privilege of calling a very dear friend since 1996 When he came out to the United States for the very first time to preach At the church where I was a member at the time while still living in New York Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Merrick Long Island and that was dr. M. Bayway's very first American speaking engagement, and I had the privilege of being there.
I can recall very vividly that we had over 500 visitors over the three-week. I'm sorry the three-day conference and That does not include members of our own congregation. So that was definitely a memorable event.
We aired commercials for dr. M Bayway on a radio station for which I was employed and the phones were ringing off the hook because we included in those commercials a clip of dr. Conrad and Bayway preaching and He is certainly One of my very favorite preachers in fact, I would call him my favorite preacher alive on the planet Earth and Because of that shared friendship.
I have known of Brian Borgman founding pastor of Grace Community Church of Minden, Nevada For quite a long time, but this is the first opportunity that I have had to Interview him and I'm ecstatic over it.
He is going to be discussing pastoral theology today, which is also the theme of the 2022 Northwest Fire Regional Fellowship in Prineville, Oregon and we'll be talking about that as well. But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to iron sharpens iron radio pastor Brian Borgman.
Thank you, Chris. Well, first of all tell our listeners about Grace Community Church of Minden, Nevada.
Well in Grace Community Church, we had three other families six 1994 and God has been Incredibly kind to us over these past 28 plus years and we're a confessional Baptist ministries out and just a Wonderful church.
Praise God for that. And if anybody wants more details on.
This fine church that has a fine reputation Across the country and dare I say even globally Grace Community Church of Minden, Nevada. The website is GraceNevada .com GraceNevada .com and God willing we will be Announcing that again towards the end of the program.
Well, I have already mentioned that you are going to be speaking along with Bruce Ray Who is my guest in August on this program. You are going to be speaking at the pastoral theology conference, which is actually the 2022 Northwest fire regional fellowship in Prineville, Oregon.
Tell us about this fellowship event.
Yeah, so, you know fellowship of independent reformed evangelicals general meetings this year Actually makes it a significant amount of time with my Polonians is sort of well. Praise God and.
For more details on this conference You can go to events entrusted word org events entrusted word org and you will find out more about the 2022 Northwest fire regional fellowship. And I also want to take this opportunity to thank Christopher Cookston of Prineville Community Church In Oregon for the generous financial support that he has provided and For being just such a dear and encouraging brother in Christ.
Well As I've already mentioned that today we're going to discuss a bit about this Theme that you will be addressing at the conference. But before we do that, we have a tradition here on iron trip and Zion radio whenever we have a first-time guest that we Asked that guest to give a summary of his or her salvation testimony including the religious atmosphere if any that the guest has been raised in and What kind of providential circumstances are sovereign Lord raised up in that guest's life that drew? him or herself To God and saved that person.
So why don't you tell us about your your salvation testimony, brother? I.
Would I would love to Chris the into a Catholic home German Catholic Catholic Church, I. Was baptized this same church? My dad was baptized in and my mom grew up a hunger. There's been just sort of a Heinz 57 78 or 79 right in there.
My mom walked into a Christian bookstore my mom being a Christian fan in there and and there were. The NIV was probably was an NIV Stack of Bibles that that caught her attention and she picked it up and this is no joke.
She picked the dietary laws in Leviticus. And The Lord actually used just an insatiate all of a sudden he started reading her Bible. Bought a Bible. Started reading it voraciously. Had met some shuns.
I mean everybody in our my dad's side of the family was gathers a day while he was there's up and down, California. And he was listening to my mom's UPS truck and came across Dr. J. Vernon McGee and through the Bible radio.
Oh, yeah.
I worked for WMCA radio in New York a Salem media affiliate and They were airing J. Vernon McGee's.
Program far after he was in glory with Christ already. This is about 1978 79 and My dad did not feel the freedom to read the scripture to my mom and my mom said why don't you go see the priest. It was not a bill, California, and my dad went to go talk to him.
I always thought it was the father right? Oh, yeah, one of my favorite authors of all time. Used a rile to help my dad and my dad went to talk to this priest and the priest said to my dad Steve the Bible is God's Word and you need to read it and So my dad felt the freedom having the priest and my dad came to faith in Christ.
And so my lawyer. Yeah, my parent my parents had gone nuts. So I'm I'm maybe 12 felt like everybody else. My mom and dad sat down with me one night and they said We want to start going to a church that reads the Bible or teaches the Bible told them that I was born and they said God gave them wisdom and grace and they said that's fine.
But what we want to do is we want you to go to church with us one week and then we'll drop you off at Mass the next. Well, it seems fair. They said you have to go to church, you know, brother I I wouldn't the message the sermon on the rich man and Lazarus from Luke 16 and God really began to Create a hunger in my heart to read the scriptures.
I'm trying to find like any and Finally one night. I'm reading my Bible because my mom gave me a Bible and I just thought if I do one more religious thing and I get I'm in chapter 5 and I read unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and the Pharisees you will not enter the kingdom of heaven and I was my mom and dad and sister and my mom could see at this time I'm 13 she comes into my bedroom with confess every, you know, because you know, the Catholic mindset is you know I got to do.
I thought maybe Confessing to my mom would be the the silver bullet and my mom sat there and she lived even Chuckled a little bit which I thought was completely inappropriate as I was buried. But you need to understand that God loves you more than we ever could amen and As I as I sat there and listened to her tell me that I really I sensed Shoulders, I began to just devour the script.
I don't know if that was the exact night that I was once I started reading the word. I never never looked back. We ended up going to a church that taught the Bible and had real Christians in it Loved us and we were in that church for a number of years and I am really thankful The Lord ended up saving my sister as well salvation.
Well, praise God now. Which is especially appropriate since our theme is pastoral theology. Tell us How when and where you knew that you had a call from God to enter into pastoral ministry.
Yeah, as I was about 14 years old my Bible every morning every night and At about deep desire could not have articulated it to you in any, you know in any way that That would reflect. You know, it's a fit.
I just knew that I wanted to serve the Lord and I Went and talked to my pastor that he knew year-old. Zealous or on doing, you know everything I could. We I mean we did all kinds of mine and neighbors.
She also she went to the same Catholic Church that we had gone to her nephew was a Southern Baptist pastor in Texas and And she put me in touch with him and This man was an in calling looked like he helped me think through What it meant to come in this now, but I if you can preach to me now.
My pastor and I. I preached my first sermon at age 15 and.
Wow, I think Spurgeon did exactly that age as well.
Well, I can guarantee this Spurgeon sermon was way better than mine.
Well, I'm sure Spurgeon sermon was way better than most pastors who have reached the age of 80.
And and what ended up happening is I I and he let me preach in the evening service about once every three months friend and I ended up Organizing youth rallies. Young people that would evangelistic sermon Seminary at that time.
Theologically I was very, you know, I'm talking, you know 1617 years old. My my theological hero at that point. I was You know, I would read a lot of Charles Finney sermon virgin and so did not have a logical speech.
Yeah, that's made evident in the fact that you loved Finney.
Yeah. Really in God's providence. Some of the colleges I was considering I think would have been disastrous for me and in God's providence, I ended up going to Biola University being a Bible major there and.
And and it was there started to get better theology obviously than what I had been getting. It you know, I had from seminary in Portland, Oregon. Decades and in fact even direct me into the area of church plan praise God.
Well, we are going to go to our first station break right now. And when we return we will enter into our discussion on pastoral theology which as I already mentioned is also the theme of the 2022 Northwest fire Regional fellowship in Prineville, Oregon at Prineville Community Church where Our mutual friend a friend of both myself and my guest Christopher Cookston is the pastor and he's also a supporter of this program and a dear brother but if you have a question for Pastor Brian Borgman.
Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris ar n z e n at gmail .com as Always when you're submitting questions, please give us your first name at least Your city and state of residence and your country of residence.
If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous. If your question involves a personal and private matter and I could see that if you're discussing anything under the theme of the pastorate that there will be possibly people who have personal and private questions because they may be there they may be a pastor themselves going through a Theological transformation and they're not ready to identify this publicly yet.
They may know that it will anger the fellow elders or the congregation or the denomination that they're in. Or you may be even a member of a church where you are Sensing that things that are being taught and applied and Lived on in a congregation where you are a member are not quite Matching up with what you believe the scriptures to teach and you don't want to at this point identify who you are because you don't want to Immediately become vilified wherever you are a member.
Well, we would understand that those are very valid reasons to remain anonymous and So therefore we'll grant your request should you make that request? But if it's just a general question on pastoral theology Please give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence.
Don't go away. We'll be right back with Brian Borgman and pastoral theology right after these messages from our sponsors.
James White of Alpha and Omega ministries here excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of iron sharpens iron radio and I Are heading to Washington DC for the g3 ministries regional conference on the theme Just thinking about the Bible.
The conference will be held Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th. And I'll be speaking along with Stephen Lawson Josh vice founder of g3 ministries and Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker co-hosts of the just thinking podcast.
To register visit g3 min org. That's g3 min org and click on events. Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington, DC. So join me and Chris Arnson September 15th through the 17th in Washington DC to the g3 ministries regional conference.
Register now before they run out of seats at g3 min org. That's g3 min org. Stop by the iron sharpens iron radio exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while you're there.
Such a blessing to hear from iron sharpens iron radio listeners from all over the world. Here's Joe Riley a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show. He really loves hearing interviewed.
Dr. Joe. More craft.
I'm Joe ready a faithful iron sharpens iron radio listener here in a toy in County Kildare, Ireland. Going back to 2005 one of my very favorite guests on iron sharpens iron is dr Joe more craft. If you've been blessed by iron sharpens iron radio, dr More craft and heritage Presbyterian Church of coming Georgia are largely thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.
Heritage Presbyterian Church of coming is in Forsyth County a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area. Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church Unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards and dr. Joe more craft is the author of an eight-volume commentary on the larger catechism.
Heritage is a member of the Hanover Presbyterian built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great Protestant Reformation of the 16th century.
Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers Scripture alone grace alone faith alone Christ alone and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.
For more details on heritage Presbyterian Church of coming Georgia visit heritage Presbyterian Church calm. That's heritage Presbyterian Church calm are called six seven eight nine five four seven eight three one.
That's six seven eight nine five four seven eight three one. If you visit tell them Joe Reilly aren't. Sharpens are in radio listener I'm a toy and counts go there or sent you.
Have you noticed the gap that exists between the Sunday morning sermon and the Sunday school classroom or the small group study? So often we experience great preaching from the pulpit, but when it comes time to study God's Word in those smaller settings.
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Much less it's hard to find curriculum that will actually teach people how to study the Bible. Hi there. My name is Jordan too. And I am the executive director of the Baptist Publishing House. Our ministry is dedicated to providing local churches with sound Bible study resources.
Our quarterly curriculum is titled the Baptist expositor and for good reason we are Baptist and we exegete the scriptures. If you want to have a curriculum that teaches your people how to study the Word of God I invite you go to our website download a free study.
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Hello, my name is Anthony Vino. And I'm one of the pastors at hope reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York and also the host of the reform rookie Com website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the iron sharpens iron radio show like I do You can now find it on the Apple's iTunes app by typing iron sharpens iron radio in the search bar.
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I'm pastor Anthony. Video and thanks for listening. When iron sharpens. Iron radio first launched in.
2005 the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.
This is Darrell Bernard Harrison co-host of the just thinking podcast and the NASB is my Bible of choice.
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Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order and I would love for all of you listening who have Authority in your church to order Bibles for your pews or underneath your chairs if that's what you're using.
Because that would be a great way to say thanks to the publishers of the New American Standard Bible For renewing their advertising contract with me. I just got the wonderful news Just a few minutes before the program today started that Pike Lambeth Renewed his contract with us for advertising a contract that we really depend upon To exist and not only did they renew the contract they actually increased Their spending from the last time they advertised with us.
So we are thrilled so please go to nasbible .com. Nasbible .com Order books for individuals for yourself or Bibles. I should say NAS Bibles for your individuals yourself. And even for your entire congregation if you are a pastor a deacon or somebody with authority in your church to Replace your pew Bibles or your chair Bibles with NAS Bibles.
That's New American Standard Bibles. We thank the publishers of the NASB in Far deeper and greater ways than I have the capability to articulate in the English language. We are back now with our discussion with Brian Borgman pastor of Grace Community Church of Minden, Nevada.
We are going to be discussing pastoral theology which is also the theme of the 2022 Northwest Fire Regional Fellowship in Prineville, Oregon, in fact, you just heard pastor Christopher Cookston Prineville Community Church endorsing the New American Standard Bible along with other men and the ad for the NASB and.
I.
Am Looking forward to this discussion a very important one indeed. And in fact, let me also just say That one of your colleagues in ministry and also a mutual friend of yours and mine John Sampson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona Who is a avid listener to this program and financial supporter He wanted to extend to you his greetings in Christ and was thrilled that you are on the program today.
Yeah, I have to sadly announce that I can no longer endorse King's Church in Peoria, Arizona Because I just learned that one of their elders is a boozer. I'm just kidding folks. That's actually his name.
Andrew Boozer is one of his elders teaching elder. But I know John well enough where he would not be offended by that joke. Anyway at all, right. One of the most hilarious Men I've ever met in my life, and that's not an exaggeration.
The issue of pastoral theology. I think that in our day and age That is an area that is largely overlooked. Not necessarily in the study of it, especially when you're talking about reformed men and churches.
But sometimes even those who may study it very deeply and thoroughly and frequently Are not applying it very properly and so Tell us first of all What is a good? definition of Pastoral theology in regard to what would be the subcategories that would fall beneath that as areas that would be properly identified as Parts of good solid biblical pastoral theology.
Yeah, so that We end up coming that have been considered one of course and the other is is called theology. I don't think I don't actually don't like Practical theology because all of our theology should be practical in one way or another but pastoral theology is Basically theology the practical theology of biblical truth to the life of the to the life of though when I think oral theology I think of someone who is skilled Not only in preaching but in just bringing the Word of God to bear on the life of the church the the ministry things like Homiletics, you know others.
It's a pretty broad now. We already have an anonymous listener.
Who says Greetings brethren. I happen to be a fellow reformed Christian and I know that those who are reformed Have a trademark where we are tenaciously clinging to objective truths rather than Subjective.
However, the whole concept of a calling into the ministry at sometimes Puzzles me because it seems to be the only thing where there is a relative connection to Subjective truth that is a person is receiving in his mind and heart What he believes is a call from God to enter into the ministry.
Now, I know that the Bible clearly outlines the qualifications and requirements that Must be fulfilled in a candidate for ministry. But at the same time there seems to be something that could almost be categorized as charismatic in the way that a person Personally applies what he believes a call into the ministry is.
Can you please explain where I may be off on this?
So that actually is and I would let me just make a number of observations that. But the other is much that means work. I think Dabney ends up, you know, you kick off these. These qualifications you could go into the ministry.
I think that that Dabney's approach brought men into the ministry that should not have been. But then if you look at Spurgeon of mine Spurgeon is almost so mystical that that he may have precluded men from the ministry who should have been there, but didn't have necessarily a.
Mystical is no doubt about a sunny. It seems like you really have the gift of gab and then you go. Oh, well, the church has confirmed it. I'm talking about actually the elders of the church. Recognizing that this man has gifts this man has abilities this man is morally qualified and so both.
Amen, and in fact, I can remember especially when I was a.
Young Christian. There were members of my family I was raised Roman Catholic just as you were and There were members of my family Who were very impressed with my biblical literacy Compared to them because they weren't students of the scriptures at all as most Roman Catholics are not and I can remember Hearing on numerous occasions from my mom and my sister that I should enter into the ministry and I always responded Because I know what that entails.
I have no interest in entering into the ministry because because I Know that I don't have the calling because it's more than just public speaking. You really have to understand the weight and the severity and the awesomeness of that responsibility because you are watching over the souls of men women and children and Not that any human is Responsible for the eternal destiny of another human at the same time.
There is an enormous weight to that is connected to The pastoral ministry and and of course I would equate that with the eldership That should not be taken lightly by Anyone who thinks that they have a calling.
I'm sure that there are many people who believe they have the calling wrongly just because they perhaps are even brilliant and their ability to exegete the scriptures and their gift for scripture memory and They may be really Compelling orators, but but those things by themselves do not make them qualified to be a shepherd.
Am I right?
Yeah, absolutely, right. When I was a very yeah Dad one time said to him that is that now if you know, the guy can stand.
Yeah, a man that has no oratorical gifts at all would possibly however Be qualified for a ruling elder position where he wasn't preaching, of course. Teach the ability to teach is one of the qualifications, but that doesn't necessarily involve.
A.
Enormous gifts for oratory. I mean obviously you have to be. I agree with that a hundred percent. I think that's right.
Well, we are actually going to our midway break already. This is the longer break in the middle of the show. So please use this time wisely please write down as much of the average the the contact information as You possibly can provided by as many of our advertisers as you can so that you can more frequently and successfully Respond to our advertisers.
Keep in mind folks. We cannot exist without our advertisers. We need the financial support that comes from them. That's one of the reasons why I have been leaping for joy after hearing the good news that the New American Standard Bible publishers Have agreed to renew their advertising contract.
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So thank our advertisers. And also send in questions to Brian Borgman on pastoral theology the Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least city and state and country of residence.
Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages.
Attention all men in ministry leadership. You're all invited to my friend Chris Arnzen's iron sharpens iron radio free pastors luncheon. Thursday, September 22nd 11 a .m. To 2 p .m. At Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania.
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Iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been sticking with or Switching to the NASB.
I'm dr. Joseph Piper.
President and professor of systematic and homiletical theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylors, South Carolina. And the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm pastor Chuck White at the First Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York.
And the NASB is my Bible of choice.
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Here's a great way for your church to help keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air. Pastors are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio.
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I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.
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Solid-ground-books .com your very first stop for all your gift-giving needs. Visit solid-ground-books .com frequently and purchase generously. Always mentioning that you heard about them from Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio before I return to our discussion on pastoral theology with my guest today Brian Borgman pastor of Grace Community Church of Minden, Nevada.
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Last but not least if you are not a member of a Christ honoring theologically sound doctrinally solid biblically faithful church. Like Grace Community Church of Minden, Nevada, no matter where on the planet earth you live I may be able to help you find a church.
Even within minutes of your home as I have done on many occasions with listeners in our audience spanning the globe. So if you are in that predicament of not being aware of a biblically faithful church near you.
Send me an email to Chris Arnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address. Or should I say? conclude in that email. Your request if you have a friend or family member that is in need of a church as well.
It's Chris Arnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line and That's also the email address where you could send in a question on pastoral theology to our guest today Brian Borgman Pastor of Grace Community Church of Minden, Nevada, that's Chris Arnson at gmail .com.
Chris Arnson at gmail .com. We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania. Who wants to know can you? Contrast preaching from teachering it seems that many in the non-reformed world preach and may have very eloquent speakers without substance and.
In the reformed world you very often although not in every case Have teachers who are brilliant, but their presentation of the gospel is more appropriate for The classroom of a seminary rather than in a church there seems to on some occasions depending upon the church and pastor more of a professorial approach To opening up the Word of God and I say that knowing full.
Well that some of the most powerful and passionate preachers on the planet are reformed. I am just saying that I have witnessed this far too often from churches and pastors identifying themselves as reform.
What is your reply to this.
Yeah, that's a great question. Seminary in many years. Dosco. And then the related nouns. What you end up. Fine. Now they're not exact. Proclamation ends up having tactic instruction. But the overlap ends up being not not just in terms.
But I think that the idea Chris ends up being that as we in our preaching there needs to be instruction, you know you. That that should be if a person is up there and it's all heat and no light. Then it hasn't done people any good.
And definitely include. But even then I would that even if what we're deep. Action, in other words, you know, there should you know, so that it. Well, yes. You know. And and I would say to send to bore people with the Bible.
I would say academic approach where you're just disseminating. Because God's words the most amen. And I I would assume that you would agree.
That there are many Good solid preachers out there that are not as nearly loud and robust and Powerful as Al Martin. Very few people could live up to that. But they may have more of a soft-spoken approach, but they're still nonetheless passionate.
They still may be at times even weeping in a sermon appropriately when the subject would would in very logically produce such a reaction. Wouldn't you agree that this is not a contest about how loud you could be but the the key would be the manner with which you preach.
Something should Reflect how urgent you are for your here is to embrace what you're saying.
Yeah, there's no simply by you know. People I would Write and and sometimes even in some way in a sense defines our earnestness.
Amen, in fact when you mentioned the name William Hughes who I've had the privilege to interview on this program one of the finest sermons I ever heard was by William Hughes at Al Martin's pulpit in Montville, New Jersey when he was a visiting preacher from the UK.
And his message the title Is still etched forever in my memory. Do you want Jesus or Barabbas. And I can't just remember being totally Blown away by that message. And you've also reminded me by mentioning Al Martin that I've got to get in contact with him if you wouldn't mind giving me his contact information off the air because I have recently interviewed a Church of Christ.
A former Church of Christ minister and a university professor who is actually going to be on my show again on Friday. David Lawrence a part of his testimony of coming to the Reformed Faith was hearing a sermon by Al Martin.
I want I want a pastor Martin to know that deep blessing with that. We have somebody with a who has a question who we've been mentioning already Pastor Christopher Cookston of the Prineville Community Church in Prineville, Oregon.
Who's also the host of the? 2022 Northwest Fire Regional Fellowship on the very theme that we're addressing today a pastoral theology. He asks a related question really to what you just Answered. How does a pastor preach to the needs of his congregation with winsomeness?
Precision and effectiveness.
Yeah, that's a great question to question and would probably ask why does Brian continually put cream in his coffee?
I do as well.
But to the needs of the people being I was just having a discussion. One of the things we need to be uttered to do what Chris is. We need to flowing from one of the things that reminder for us. You know, I love my Bible.
I love to exegete the scriptures. I love theology. I love teaching doctrine all of those things but an emphatic requirement that I need to apply the Word of God, you know. Nation you can't say it's been that when we when we are committed to as a good pastor.
You have to know your people you have to you know to quote Al Martin. Yet when you when you read for instance, like we're going to be doing at the conference first Thessalonians. You see the way that Paul is applying truth to the Thessalonians.
He knows them. He knows what they're going through. He knows they're suffering just he knows the Eric would sit that we know our congregation. We know our people which means we must spend time with them and then load in our application.
But just Thessalonians to we're like a nursing mother. Loving and courage. We're trying to bring the Word of God to bear in a way Establishes that when our motive is not to just simply get them to do what we want them to do.
Our motive is not, you know I just want you to be more deeply committed to give more or whatever. But our motive is just love. Right the goal of our instruction is love. You know from a pure heart, I think that the idea then is as a shepherd I'm going to pre in a way that first of all is loving which means I aim for winsomeness but also With application that does good to to the people of God.
Amen. And what this question by Pastor Cookston reminded me of. Especially in regard to specifically Preach to the needs of the congregation. I've had conversations with some of my longtime very dear independent fundamentalist Baptist friends and Not all of them.
I don't want to broad brush but there are some Which has really earned the reputation of this for the whole group and people shouldn't broad brush at any time. But some of them will hobby horse on scandalous sin.
When they are preaching very animatedly and loudly, they'll be preaching against the damnable wickedness of homosexuality Adultery fornication Drunkenness Scandalously provocatively dressing. You could go on and on with the things that Have become a hallmark of fundamentalist preaching.
And although those things might be.
More.
Properly the frequent topic of messages when you're doing open-air evangelism, especially maybe in the inner city and I'm not saying they're never appropriate behind the pulpit of a church because you could have people privately involved in those sins, but that is typically those are typically not the sins of congregants in a fundamentalist church.
They need to be hearing about the sin of pride and other things that might be more frequently Present in a congregation that would be under that Description. Wouldn't. Am I making sense here?
Yeah, I I totally agree with that. That's why I'm an advocate of consecutive expository preaching. Consecutive expository. And you are in the text and here's here's the beauty of it. Chris the the entire book of Romans or the entire book of Deuteronomy right is the same so the the and then seeks to faithfully apply and.
The glorious thing could never plan that, you know, the Spirit of God is pleased to do made made plans. Amen. And.
Well, let's move on. What would be one of the other more critical areas that you'd like to us to address today?
Well, I will tell you that I think so much of tackle things when you're dealing with with pastorally think one of the ology Ology, but whether that's feeding them it needs to be in a much bigger than so I have an elders meeting Little perspective of the glory of God the gospel of Christ in a very real sense preparing people for eternity and so I would just say that that making sure that our pastoral theology is robustly in a sense not lamely.
Amen, and we're going to our final break right now. If you have a question for Brian Borgman, I would strongly urge you to send it in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.
Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Give his first name at least city and state and country of residence. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Brian Borgman and pastoral theology right after these messages.
James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of iron sharpens iron radio and I Are heading to Washington DC for the g3 ministries regional conference on the theme Just thinking about the Bible.
The conference will be held Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th. And I'll be speaking along with Steven Lawson Josh vice founder of g3 ministries and Darrell Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker co-hosts of the just thinking podcast.
To register visit g3 min org. That's g3 min org and click on events. Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington, DC. So join me and Chris Arnzen September 15th through the 17th in Washington, DC to the g3 ministries regional conference.
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Brian Borgman, we have a question from Ronald and Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island New York and He asks. I have heard this area addressed on iron sharpens iron radio before but I was wondering what today's guest Had to say because I know there are differences of opinion on this Even amongst those that identify themselves as Calvinist.
I was wondering if the ordinances of the church are only to be provided and performed by those who are pastors and elders and Also, I was wondering if you would also include Diaconate or just members in good standing who happen to be male to provide the ordinances.
Yeah, that's a good or to be administered only the Commission of Christ seemed to be a little bit of ambiguity in that Statement in a sense. Give a look at administered. Yeah. Well, let's try to actually make this more precise.
Let's say a.
Father who has been well known in the church and community as being An upright and outstanding a member of the body of Christ obedient and so forth. His son or daughter Is asking for baptism. The church allows him to baptize the son or daughter.
Would that person who was baptized require being baptized again by a pastor or elder or deacon.
No, I mean my opinion would would be that that's a Valid Christian that well, you know what we're talking about of a given church and somebody applying for membership and and they had a godly father, you know in there that would not be an issue to us.
Well Robert has a.
Second question also involving something that he has heard discussed on this program Robert says. I have very rarely seen reform Baptist churches providing the elements of the ordinances whether they be baptism or the Lord's Supper in Nursing homes and other places where a person might be home bound.
I was wondering what your opinion of this is because it seems to me if baptism and the Lord's Supper are Very very important albeit non-essential for salvation that we would not want to deprive people who cannot Attend the corporate gathering of a local church.
Because they are physically hindered from doing so. And I'm not saying that it would be necessarily appropriate that one person like a pastor goes alone to the nursing home or the house of a person physically uncapable of Attending church, but perhaps a small gathering of members so that they would be fulfilling the requirement.
Especially in regards to the Lord's Supper of where two or more are gathered. What is your opinion?
Yes, so would be 11 a number of times when you come together as have any. Any fundamental objection, you know having it's not a privatized communion service pretty common. It's not a is of leadership as well.
By the way, I'm sorry, I believe I referred to our listener as Robert. His name is Ronald. Thank you so much for the the question. Excellent questions plural. I should say Before I go to any other Listener question. I want to make sure that you have several minutes To summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners regarding this topic.
And perhaps you even have another element of pastoral theology that we have an address that you want to include in today's broadcast. I already know that I want you back on the show very soon to either continue the same topic or address another issue, but if you could Give us your summary of what is most essential regarding our discussion today.
Yeah, I would I would love it. If if our listeners the the needs to be reportants of it. Lacking speaking and then also Bible through, you know. The issues of pastoral theology. If I could recommend an old one I would say essays ology for ministry ology does is pastoral theology from my theology for the life of the.
Amen, we have time for at least one more question from a listener. Another listener who? requests to remain anonymous. What sins in your opinion from a biblical point of view? Would forever bar a man from Re-entering into the pastorate after he has fallen in some sort of wicked way.
Yeah, it is only deeply violates it violates the Congregation heavily involved, but I do think Congregation and can be done secret. It's a violation. It needs to watch over his life. But I do think that there would be sins like the two that I mentioned and something has arisen very sadly.
In my estimation and I'm sure yours even amongst professedly reformed churches and denominations where they will permit a man To be ordained into the ministry even knowing this about the person They will identify as being a chaste Homosexual.
They will say that they do not physically participate in the sin. But they identify themselves that way because that is their attraction. In my opinion that person should never be Permitted not only into the eldership, but even in the membership if they are professing to be an ongoing homosexual even in the Thought life or the desiring of the heart.
What's your. Yeah, I would yeah, I would agree. You can be not a practicing homosexual. We turn that you know, I mean and then be in the Christian ministry.
So amen, and we're out of time and I want to repeat your website for Grace Community Church of Minden, Nevada. I hope and I'm been pronouncing Minden correctly Grace Nevada calm grace Nevada calm. Don't forget about the website for the 2022 Northwest fire regional fellowship October 5th through the 7th that website is events dot entrusted word org and also, don't forget about the website of Prineville Community Church in Prineville, Oregon, which is the hosting church of the Northwest fire regional fellowship.
That is Prineville community church org. Prineville community church org. I want to thank you so much pastor Borgman for being such an extraordinary guest. I want you back very soon. I want to thank everybody who listened and I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives That Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.
Well, thank you.