WWUTT 355 Q&A King James Onlyism, Contemplative Prayer, and Discernment?

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What do we need to know about a King James -only fundamentalist church?

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What is Christian mysticism and contemplative prayer? And how do we properly exercise discernment in our congregations?

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The answers to these questions and more when we understand the text. You're listening to When We Understand the

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Text, committed to the sound teaching of the Word of God. Find videos and more at our website www .wutt

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.com. Now here's our host, Pastor Gabe Hughes. Thanks, Becky. No baby yet.

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And if the baby does not come by Monday, that's the day that we are being induced. So pray for safety for the mom and for the baby.

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Safe travel for us as we go from here to the hospital as well. And thank you so much for your generous support.

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So next week, one way or the other, God willing, we're going to have baby number four in our arms.

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And I will have recorded some episodes in advance. So it won't be like the night before, like I do most of these episodes, but you'll still get

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Bible teaching as we continue our study of 2 Peter 2, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday.

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Also put forth a request last week to donate books to our church library.

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We're putting together a small library at our church. And so if you've got some books of a more reformed nature, it doesn't have to specifically be that.

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I've said, you know, Leonard Ravenhill would be a good contribution. A .W. Tozer as well. And those two men were not.

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We're not Calvinist. Also, Wesley, like Charles Wesley or John Wesley.

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I get the two mixed up. I'll take those also. R .C. Sproul, John MacArthur, Charles Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards.

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I don't know. I'm trying to think, you know, David Platt, Matt Chandler, Jared C. Wilson. Love those books.

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Also, John Piper, any of the nine marks books, the Mark Dever books. I'm just throwing out some ideas.

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Maybe you even have some ideas to some books that I'm not thinking of. But you can send those books to First Southern Baptist Church, 1220

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West 8th Street, Junction City, Kansas, 66441. And once again, as I said, we will take used books, newer used books.

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Appreciate it very much for thinking of us and contributing to our church library as we are working on expanding the education of our church congregation, the church that is behind supporting when we understand the text and making sure this material gets out to everybody in the world who listens and watches the videos.

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The emails that I have today come from all over. As a matter of fact, I've got a I got one from Canada here, one from Arkansas, and I don't know where the first one comes from.

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If you want to submit a question to our broadcast, the email address is when we understand the text at gmail .com.

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This first one comes from Emily. Hi, my husband and I are fairly new to sound theology.

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We were in the mainstream name it and claim it muck for about 10 years until God graciously opened our eyes a little over a year and a half ago.

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Amen to that. Your videos and podcasts have been very helpful for us as we grow and learn the proper way to interpret and and apply scripture.

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So thank you. We finally found a church in our area that is, for the most part, biblically sound.

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We noticed that they only use the KJV, but we didn't ask any questions about it at first.

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We've been there about four months and finally got around to asking the pastor if they believe it is the only inspired word of God or if it's just preference.

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He was very kind but did not but did inform us that they believe the KJV is the only preserved word of God in the

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English language. He gave us some literature and told us not to get bogged down in the research. He said our

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Bibles, we use the ESV, contain God's word, but they also contain errors and he doesn't advise studying from them.

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What are your thoughts? We have done much research and we disagree with him that our Bibles are not trustworthy.

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Is this enough that we should pause and really pray about staying there? We are technically still visitors.

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We haven't made any commitments. However, we live in a fairly small town and we'd have to drive at least an hour to get to another sound church.

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Again, thank you so much for your ministry and I thank you for your email, Emily, and praise the

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Lord for you and your husband being in more sound teaching today. Now, one of the things that I appreciate about the

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King James only churches is their devotion to the word of God and submission to its authority.

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No problem there in a King James only church. However, their enthusiasm is a little bit misplaced because they praise the

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KJV as the only divinely inspired English translation, which simply is not true.

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When it comes down to it, the ESV, which is the translation that I read on the broadcast, the

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New American Standard Bible, and even the New King James are all more accurate translations than the

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KJV, but that's beside the point. Preaching from the KJV is not a problem. If a church decides that's the translation that they want to use, that's fine as long as you can understand it.

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It's a good translation, but saying it's the only English translation inspired by God when the

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Bible says no such thing, that is a lie. What's worse is he's telling you not to test that claim.

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When the Bible says to test everything, 1 Thessalonians 5 .21, you had even the

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Bereans testing the claims of the apostle Paul in Acts 17 .11, and they were commended for that.

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What's concerning about fundamentalism of this kind is that it raises to primary importance doctrines that are tertiary issues.

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In the case of KJV -onlyism, doctrines that aren't even true, and that causes division. My guess is that if you delve deeper into that church's statement of faith, you're going to find things that you have to believe in that are tertiary issues in order to become a member of that church.

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For example, you probably have to believe in a pre -tribulation rapture, and you have to believe in a pre -millennial view of the end times.

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If you hold those viewpoints, fine, but I have a problem with a church that says you have to hold that viewpoint in order to become a member here.

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These are not essential faith doctrines, but that church has made them essential doctrines.

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And you may also find an extreme form of separatism in that church. They don't partner with or do ministry with any other kind of church that believes differently than they do.

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Many of their doctrines are probably right on point, but they have elevated the non -essentials, and that causes division.

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Telling anyone not to test any faith claim promotes groupthink rather than genuine faith.

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And the Bible says there must be factions among us so that those who are genuine will be recognized. 1

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Corinthians 11, 19. Since you are not members yet, if there are other options available to you,

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I would recommend that you explore them, even if it means traveling to another town. There might be something closer than you're aware.

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Or perhaps your love for sound doctrine may draw another doctrinally sound church to want to plant in your community.

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As always, pray about this. And don't just shut out your current pastor out of the conversation either.

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Talk with him about this. Let him know your concerns. And perhaps the Lord will move in the hearts of those that you worship with to be more open in realizing the

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King James version of the Bible. It's just not worth causing division over what translation of the

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Bible that we're going to read and study. You know, I've had some bad experiences with independent fundamentalist churches.

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We've had independent fundamentalists that have come into our church and have caused a lot of problems.

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They cause division in our own congregation. So I really think that independent fundamentalist churches can be a bad influence on Christian growth.

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If it's possible for you to find another church congregation, I would suggest that you do.

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Unless you're a member at the church where you're at, you know, you've got growth that's going on there. You're hoping to grow members of that congregation.

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Remain there if you're a member there. But when choosing a church, that's not one that I would recommend.

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So if it's possible to find another sound church nearby, I would recommend you do that first.

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This next one comes from Caleb from Canada. He says, Hi, Pastor Gabe.

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My name is Caleb, named after the Caleb in the Bible, and I live in British Columbia, Canada. I love your what videos and have been sharing them with my friends ever since I found them a number of months ago.

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So thank you for the great content. I also have a topic that I would appreciate to see in a video. A number of my friends have been getting into contemplative prayer or contemplative prayer, wherever you want to put the emphasis on the syllable.

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And I'm skeptical about it. I know very little about contemplative prayer or Christian mysticism.

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But as far as I can tell, it's not very biblical. And I think that it could be a danger to my friends.

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So could we please see a video on that topic in the future? And in the meantime, I'll do my own research to try and better understand what this whole contemplative prayer thing is all about.

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Thanks so much. Best regards, Caleb. Well, I appreciate that very much, Caleb. And we do have a video in the works that will be coming sometime in the near future.

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Shouldn't be later than February. So somewhere pretty close. We've got a video coming up on contemplative prayer.

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As for Christian mysticism, let me address that one first before I get to contemplative prayer.

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So the whole prayer practice comes out of Christian mysticism. And the whole mystic thing is really difficult to nail down because it's very subjective.

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It's all about having a religious experience and nothing is submissive to the authority of the word of God.

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And so therefore, since it's all about having an experience and it's a subjective thing, it's difficult to say this is what

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Christian mysticism is. The word itself, mysticism, means to conceal. So Christian mysticism is all about having that religious experience.

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And that varies and is different for every person. But it may include visions, speaking in tongues, having a mystical experience with God in some sort of meditative practice.

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And when it comes to how the Bible applies to Christian mysticism, it's only important for its ritualism and its symbolism.

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But the inerrancy of scripture or submitting to the full authority of the word of God is not a thing for Christian mystics.

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And this was directly confronted by Paul in Colossians 2, as a matter of fact, where Paul says in verse 18, let no one disqualify you insisting on asceticism and worship of angels going on in detail about visions puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind and not holding fast to the head from whom all the whole body nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments grows with a growth that is from God and holding fast to the head

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Christ who feeds the whole body. That's specifically talking about reading and studying the word of Christ.

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If you're not holding fast to that and growing according to the word of God, then you're just puffed up without reason by your own mind going on in detail about crazy visions that don't mean anything.

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And that's exactly what Paul is confronting there, this mystic concept. And there was likely a

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Jewish mystic that had come into Colossae and was trying to convince them that you need to follow this philosophy and you need to practice this mysticism in order to have true faith.

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When Paul is saying, no, don't listen to those guys. You have the true word of God given in the testimony of Jesus Christ.

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And that's what you need to hold fast to and read and study. In fact, he tells the Colossians, take the letter that he has written to them, go to Laodicea and share this letter with them.

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I've written a letter to Laodicea. So read the letter that I wrote to them. This is Paul encouraging them all the more to read and study what has been handed down by Christ to his apostles.

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Our faith needs to be rooted in the sound word of Christ and nothing else. And Christian mysticism and contemplative prayer is all based on subjective experiences.

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So how about contemplative prayer? And then that's a that's a more specific facet of Christian mysticism.

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But basically, it begins with a centering prayer, and it is a meditative practice that will focus on a single word.

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And the person may recite that word over and over again audibly, or it could be that they're just concentrating and I don't know, concentrating on the word or saying it over and over again in their mind.

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And that brings them to this this point of clarity, like they've they've flushed out their mind of any other thoughts, except for that word that they're concentrated on.

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So that way, the voice of God will be more easily heard in their own mind and receive guidance from God, and they will feel his presence because this meditative practice is a very important thing in Christian mysticism.

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But you will recognize that that way of praying is not found anywhere in the scriptures.

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Now, there is a lot of different things that we will argue about as Christians, like, for example, whether or not the

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King James Bible is the only divinely authorized version of the Bible in the

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English language. We'll argue about whether the earth is 6000 years old or six billion years old.

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We'll argue about whether Noah's flood was local or if it covered the entire globe. But if there is one argument that that is nonsensical in Christian thought, it's an argument regarding prayer and whether or not we should be praying in these contemplative ways or praying in tongues, yada, yada, yada, because the way that we're supposed to pray was clearly articulated by Christ when he instructed us in Matthew chapter six with the

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Lord's prayer. Pray then like this. Our father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

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Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us.

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Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. And then the addition in the

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King James Bible for thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. That's a clear prayer.

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Jesus prayed clear prayers, and so should we. If there's anybody who could have prayed in front of his disciples in some sort of divine heavenly language that they would not have understood, it's

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Jesus. And he didn't do that. He said not to go on rambling in meaningless words.

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Pray then like this and gave us the instruction of the Lord's prayer. Even when Jesus was under such duress in the garden of Gethsemane that he falls on the ground and he's sweating drops of blood.

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Even when he was under that level of stress, he still prayed clear prayers.

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Father, if there is any other way, let this cup pass from me, but not my will, your will be done.

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That's what the disciples heard him pray. Even in a period of stress, his prayers were still understood.

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And so Jesus has given us instructions on how we are to pray. That's how you pray. Not contemplative prayer, not praying in tongues, not any of this other nonsense that we try to delve into when it comes to having a healthy prayer life.

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Learn also about praying the scriptures. Let me just take the scripture that I gave you there in Colossians chapter two.

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Say, God, let no one disqualify me. Insisting on asceticism and worship of angels and going on in detail about visions puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind.

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But help me to hold fast to the head who is Christ Jesus, from whom the whole body is nourished and knit together through its joints and its ligaments growing with a growth that is from God.

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You take the scriptures and you pray that. And what you end up praying is the

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Lord's will. And your mind becomes more centered on what the

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Lord's will is rather than what you want. A religious experience in contemplative prayer, okay?

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And a passage that I often use in teaching people to pray the scriptures is in Colossians chapter three, where Paul says, if then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.

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Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth for you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

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When Christ, who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

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All right? So pray those four verses like this. Lord, remind me that I have been raised with Christ.

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So help me to seek the things that are above where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.

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Lord, fix my mind on things that are above, not things that are here on earth for I've died.

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Remind me that I have died and my life is hidden with Christ in God. And when

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Christ, who is my life appears, then I know I will also appear with him in glory.

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Why would you want to pray any other way? Except the way that the Lord taught us how to pray and centering on his word and on his scriptures, fixing our minds on the word of God, which is what we're supposed to be doing all the time.

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Anyway, Paul said this to the Philippians rejoice in the Lord. Always.

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I will say it again. Rejoice, let your reasonableness be known to everyone.

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The Lord is at hand. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with Thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

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So I got to take all of those thoughts there and condense it down into 90 seconds and come up with a video on contemplative prayer.

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Pray for me as I, as I attempt to do that. But Caleb, I hope that was helpful for you. Let me say one more thing about contemplative prayer before I go on to this last question.

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Contemplative prayer is not being quiet during prayer. Let me, let me give you an example of that.

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Say the pastor says to the congregation, let's all be still for a moment. Take a moment to pray by yourself to the

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Lord, and then we'll pray together. And so like, for example, before the Lord's supper, it's very common to do it there.

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So take a moment, pray to the Lord, confess your sins before God, and then we'll all pray together.

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And so he takes, you know, 30 seconds of silence. That's not contemplative prayer.

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And I've heard some people disavow that and say that no pastor should pray that way.

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They're contemplating. And the Bible says not to do that. I don't, I don't see any problem with that at all.

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A moment of silence as you come into prayer. I'll tell you that there are times when I have said to my congregation, let's pray.

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And the moment that I, I bow my head and my close my eyes to pray, man, I am choked up.

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Like it's, it's amazing to me that I get to come before God and pray to him.

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That the son, Jesus Christ has died on the cross. And he had, and that cross has bridged the gap between me and God.

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And now I have access to God, the creator of the universe, who I am not worthy of talking to, but I can through Jesus Christ.

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And he receives my prayer and sees me as holy because of what Christ has done for me.

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And when my mind gets to realizing that I get so choked up that I can't say anything.

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And so I have to take a moment to collect myself and pray to the Lord with my mind. Before I can utter words to lead my congregation in that prayer.

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That's not contemplative. Okay. That's not contemplating on a word and fixing myself on it until my mind is flushed out and cleared or whatnot.

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I'm thinking about the word of God. That's what my mind is thinking about. When I hit those moments that I am so caught,

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I can't find words to say. And so, so that's just clarity on what is contemplative prayer and what's not just being quiet in prayer is not contemplative waiting for somebody else to, you know, like when you're in a prayer circle and let's go around and pray.

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I'll pray. You start and dah, dah, dah, dah. And then it takes a while for somebody else to speak up. Don't worry. No contemplativeness is going on.

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Okay. One last question. I'm already over time, but I did want to get to this final question. This is from Joshua in Arkansas.

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He says, hello, Pastor Gabe. First off, I wanted to thank you for your video and podcast ministry.

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I have been tremendously edified by both as well as by interacting with you on Twitter. I hope this email finds you and your family well, and I understand if circumstances prevent you from responding.

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I have not responded to Joshua by email yet, but I hope that he hears this.

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In past years, I was what could be described as a cage stage discernmentalist, someone who saw only the problems in the church, someone who saw only the problems in the church.

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Let's put the emphasis on it that way, and was rightfully thought of as being overly critical of other Christians.

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Coming out of that, I have been encouraged by my pastors and mentors to have a more understanding and gracious attitude.

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With that in mind, I still struggle to encourage godly discernment at my church.

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I have been extremely blessed to have attended, served, and been served by a godly gospel centered church for the past four years.

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However, no church is perfect, and there are a few things in my congregation that I believe are detrimental to its growth, such as Beth Moore Bible Studies or Hillsong Bethel Jesus Culture songs sung in worship.

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I do not think that I am the sole right -minded person in my congregation or that it is all up to me to fix things, but I do not believe that God wants me to ignore these issues and I understand the threat that false teaching can grow into.

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However, I know that very few people would want to hear me out. I feel like there is a culture in my church of wanting to believe the best about people, so if we don't hear anything heretical in a

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Hillsong song or Beth Moore study, then it is all right. How would you advise that someone in my position, not being an elder or leader in my church, encourage discernment when it comes to the people that we listen to and the songs that we sing?

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Tough question, Joshua, and I want to pray for you also when we get to the end of this here.

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Let me clarify something first here before we go on, and I want to pick my words very carefully.

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A church is not a false teaching church if you occasionally see

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Beth Moore Bible Studies and Hillsong songs pop up in that church. A person can listen to a

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Beth Moore Bible study and hear sound teaching in it because they're applying their own hermeneutic into what she's saying rather than hearing it from Beth Moore's hermeneutic.

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Do you get that? Somebody can apply their own hermeneutic to Christine Kane's teaching instead of listening to it from Christine Kane's hermeneutic, which is false.

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Both Beth Moore and Christine Kane are false teachers, but a person can listen to what they say and hear their own hermeneutical approach to the scriptures and what they say and hear right teaching come from it.

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Okay, so that is why we need to be gracious when there are churches that you would listen to the pastor and you hear sound teaching coming out of the pulpit.

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They're talking about sin and repentance. They're talking about all things being given to us by God.

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It is not our will, but God's will that things are done. You might even hear a congregation that's not in any way synergistic.

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Our salvation is not what we do and what God does working in cooperation with one another.

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It's all God. By grace, you have been saved through faith, and there is no other way that we come to salvation but that.

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Everything that comes out of the pulpit is completely sound, but then you go in their church library and you find books by Rick Warren and Beth Moore and you're going, oh my goodness, this church is a false teaching church.

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It just means that there's a lack of discernment and they've got some growth to do, but that church should not be dismissed.

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There should not in any way be an attitude in us that looks at that and goes, oh, what a horrible church. Close their doors.

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Oh my goodness. They're a plague. Stop this. There needs to be some growth and there needs to be some discernment, and we need to be patient with how that happens.

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And I am wonderfully grateful for Joshua recognizing that he can't go all cage stage on this church in some of the things that they adopt as acceptable, but yet he also can't leave it be.

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So what do we do about this? And Joshua, I would like to read for you out of Galatians chapter six.

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So the apostle Paul says this. Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness.

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Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ.

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For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself, but let each one test his own work and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor.

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For each one will have to bear his own load. And all Paul is saying here is that we're not comparing ourselves to other people.

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I'm better than that guy, so I know I'm doing pretty good. No, you look at your own growth and sanctification, not your sanctification compared to somebody else, but you walk humbly with God.

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This walk that you have with Christ and the growth that is happening in you by his spirit in your maturity in the faith.

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Verse six, let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches.

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Got that? Do not be deceived. God is not mocked for whatever one sows that will he also reap for the one who sows to his own flesh will reap from the will from the flesh reap corruption.

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But the one who sows to the spirit will from the spirit reap eternal life.

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So this is emphasizing why it's so important to latch on to teachers that are in the spirit and not those teachers that are in the flesh.

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Verse nine and let us not grow weary in doing good for in due season.

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We will reap if we do not give up. So then as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

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So in those last two verses, Joshua, be patient and long suffering in the sowing that you are doing in your church, because I'm telling you now it's going to take a long time and there will probably be people that you will lose in the process because there are people that are going to look at this and go,

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I like Beth more and I like Rick Warren and I like all these other guys. So why are you getting rid of them?

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This church is changing and something's wrong. So I'm going to pop out of here and those who are not genuine are going to end up leaving that congregation.

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That's that's what's going to end up happening. I know it's going to happen because it happened in my church and I've seen it happen in other churches before.

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It's inevitable. These kinds of things take place, but they take time, especially when you consider the analogy that Paul is using here in Galatians chapter six.

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Let us not grow weary in doing good for in due season.

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We will reap if we do not give up season.

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So so talking about a long time to plant a crop and wait for it to grow and then reap a harvest as you are waiting for that crop to produce.

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If you know something about farming, then you'll know that your paycheck is a long time into the future.

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I as a pastor, I get paid every month. So the first of every month, that's when I get a paycheck. But a farmer is not going to get his paycheck until his crop produces and he sells it.

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He has to wait a long time and there's no guarantee even that he's going to get what he's hoping to be his reward out of that particular crop until the crop has produced and he's harvested it and he sold it off exactly what he's going to make off of that.

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And so the farming analogy is one of great patience and one of great care and daily work.

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The farmer constantly going out to his field, making sure that pests are not eating away his crops, that there's not a blight, that they're properly being watered and given the right fertilizer and nutrients in the soil, all of the constant labor that the farmer does so that his crop will grow and produce.

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And we need to have that kind of long -suffering labor of love in the congregations where we are planted and growing.

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Now, there is a growth of sanctification that needs to happen in your heart, which you need to focus on first.

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But then you are also considering the needs of your brothers and sisters in Christ spiritually.

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That verse 10, we often use to talk about how we need to do charity to one another. So then as we have opportunity, let us give charity to everyone and especially those who are of the household of faith.

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But we're specifically talking about spiritual matters here. As we have opportunity, let us reach out with the spirit of God, the truth of the gospel of Christ, sound teaching to everyone, especially to those who are of the household of faith, looking out for one another and making sure that the teaching is sound, rooted, grounded in the sound words of Christ and everything that is tied in with that analogy of farming, of it being a long -suffering work.

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There will be a harvest produced if we do not give up. I hope that is an encouragement to you,

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Joshua, and to everybody that we be long -suffering in these things, not flying off the handle every time that we identify, oh, oh, oh, something's wrong there, something's wrong.

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And I know better than that person does. And so they're false. And I'm going to tell everybody about it.

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That's not the way that we respond to these situations, but in love toward one another, issuing correction and realizing that the fruit that we hope to see in that person's life is probably going to take a while.

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Remember what Paul said about love in 1 Corinthians 13, when he was giving all the qualities of love, what did he say about love first?

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Love is patient. My friends, God was patient with us.

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And so we must be patient with one another. God is still patient with us. Believe you me.

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Let me pray for you, Joshua, and then we will conclude. Our great God in heaven, we thank you so much for the salvation that has been given to us in Christ Jesus.

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What access we have to our creator God, because Christ died for us and by his blood, we have been justified and made holy before God so that we might enter the holy of holies because of our high priest who has atoned for us and be able to pray to our holy

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God who will hear our prayers. If anything that we ask for is asked for in the name of Christ and God, what we ask for is the knowledge of your word revealed to us by your spirit that dwells within us.

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Help us to understand the things that we read and help us in the love of God to be patient with one another, guiding one another, teaching each other in the spiritual gifts that we have been given.

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Even if it's a gift of discernment, we are long suffering with one another that we produce the fruit of the spirit and thus grow in sanctification and holiness being shaped more and more in the image of Christ growing into the head.

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Who is Christ Jesus from whom the whole body is knit and joined together in love?

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What a blessing this is. What a blessing this work in the church can be. And so help us to be patient and loving with one another as you were patient and loving toward us and are still patient and loving toward us each and every day.

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Forgive us our sins and help us to forgive the sins of those who have sinned against us.

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Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever.

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In the name of Christ we pray. Amen. Gabriel Hughes is the pastor of First Southern Baptist Church in Junction City, Kansas.