Is Kanye Truly A Christian? with Steven Bancarz

Apologia Studios

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:00

All right, welcome back ladies and gentlemen to cultish entering the game of the Colts. My name is

00:05

Jeremiah Roberts I'm one of the co -hosts here. I am here once again as always with Andrew super sleuth

00:10

Andrew the super sleuth of the show What up super excited for this episode? We are here with Stephen Bancars.

00:16

How are you, man? I'm good. I'm good good So this is awesome because we're you're here with us in studio

00:22

You flew all the way out from Toronto Canada just had to get away from the cold You brought some of the cold with you brought the rain.

00:28

You brought the rain the rains down It's actually the latter rain. Yes It's the new wine.

00:34

Oh boy falling on us right now. We're gonna get a couple YouTube comments just on that But no, this is awesome because the very first episode of cultist we ever filmed you you joined us via Skype and we talked a lot about the new age and the occult and You have an extensive background in that now just real quickly for anyone who's listening for the first time

00:55

Just give a quick two -minute version of like who you are. What's your background? What are you all about? Yeah, I came out of the new age movement

01:01

I used to have one of the largest new age websites in the world hundreds of thousands of views a day making me 40 50

01:07

Grand a month. It was my career Was a guest author on the largest new age website in the world.

01:12

I was really entrenched in this stuff I really knew my material and Had a radical experience with Christ got born again four years ago.

01:21

I've been in full -time apologetics ministry ever since then and now

01:26

I'm exposing the very worldview and deception that had allured me and By God's grace.

01:33

It's bore a lot of fruit for his kingdom and drawn people out of the new age movement as well And yeah, we talked about that on the cultish podcast.

01:41

Yeah a year ago roughly a year ago. That's awesome Yeah, so what when now this is interesting because when we filmed we definitely wanted to do feature episodes together but I never would have visualized or just Foresaw the fact that you would be in studio and we would be talking about Kanye West So, well,

02:02

I guess how do we get how do like why are why is this important to us? Why are we talking about it? So you have a you have a large following You've got a bit a

02:10

YouTube channel with around 200 ,000 subscribers. You're right up there. And so Kanye West released an album recently

02:16

Jesus is King and it's created a lot of discussion just within the culture But also within the body of Christ and within the

02:23

Christian culture about what it is. This is this something that he's Got some sort of a cherry motos.

02:29

Maybe he's trying to make a profit off of the Christian you know just trying to profit off of Christians voting with their wallets like what's really going on here and so you did two videos kind of talking about it and Believing just being really you received it.

02:43

Well, you're excited about it, but you received a lot of Backlash from certain people that didn't quite like your perception on the album

02:55

So just just tell me just real quickly. What what's the whole? What is it about this whole Kanye thing that really kind of caught your attention?

03:03

Like why did you do the videos right? Tell me a little bit your motivation behind that. Yeah, I think I identified with Kanye in one sense of knowing what it's like to Make a profession of Christ and have nobody in your corner

03:16

Defending you when I got saved in the online world I had you know a joint following of a bit a million people and I just had people calling me crazy and Trying to debate with me telling me to kill myself and I and then

03:27

I had Christians Arguing with me in the comment section telling me why is your hair long if the

03:32

Bible says it's a shame for men to have Long hair. Do you read the KJV Bible? What did you do with all your money and and then

03:40

I had videos made about me on you know Fairly large channels about how I was a New World Order shill a paid shill how

03:47

I was, you know under the spirit of Aleister Crowley how I was part of Babylon how I was a

03:52

Satanist and Teaching satanic doctrine how in my testimony video. I had onion paste under my eyes maybe because I was trying to Pretend that I was saved to lead people astray because I was a hired agent an actor and so I've dealt with all those claims

04:08

I've had my past used against me. I've had Girlfriend's social media accounts used against me in these videos.

04:15

So when I saw all of these charges brought against Kanye I was optimistic at first and then I was like Okay, why are people skeptical if we're gonna be skeptical, you know, that's great.

04:23

Let's be cautiously optimistic Let's give time to watch to see how this develops and pans out. That's fine

04:28

I was a little hasty in my judgments. I made admittedly But I saw people that were coming at this with 100 %

04:36

Certainty that he's a wolf in sheep's clothing that he's a false convert. He's a false prophet. You name it

04:42

That's much different than thing. I don't know whether he saved or not. I'm gonna withhold judgment. You're making a positive judgment

04:47

He's 100 % guilty and it wasn't just that it was if you don't see he's guilty

04:53

You're either a hired agent as well, right? You're part of it or you or you lack spiritual discernment Hmm and you need to be exposed along with him and I had never been exposed to anything like this since I got saved

05:03

Not like this. So I was like, well, wait a minute. You're saying I'm a shill. I'm a new world or a plant I'm a reprobate.

05:08

I'm an occultist just for suggesting that maybe Kanye saved Well on what basis do you make that claim right and then

05:14

I was seeing all these charges brought against Kanye Well, he did this. Well, he said that well look at this video over here and the evidence it presents and I watch it and I'm like I've seen every video of Kanye post conversion

05:25

I've watched to both interviews that Adam Tyson has released publicly about him. Yeah, I've heard what he has had to say

05:31

I've heard his witness I've read all the lyrics to the album and So I have a context by which to interpret some of this other stuff that these charges that are being brought against him

05:39

And I'm thinking Have we lost it as the church where someone can be for example accused of Preaching a false gospel and a false

05:53

Christ and you ask them why and they can't point to a single thing He is just an

05:59

Vacuous empty accusation and I have positive and evidence that he didn't do that I can say in big boy

06:05

TV interview, which I watched He says that the reason people don't want to come to Christ and they want their own version of Christianity is because they have sin

06:12

In their life. They don't want to repent for not. Everyone's gonna make it through the gates You have to accept Jesus as your

06:18

Lord and Savior. It's either paradise or Fahrenheit heaven or hell, right? Yeah, and then you have

06:23

Adam Tyson preaching the full counsel of God at his Sunday services And I'm thinking

06:28

Kanye does not preach a false gospel, right? There's not any evidence for that There's there's what he said about Mormons and TD Jake's and prosperity, right?

06:35

There's but here's another thing. Let's come on that real quick Yeah, there's a difference between preaching a false gospel and Preaching a true gospel and thinking other people have it when they don't

06:46

So Kanye has the gospel down He thinks Mormons and Roman Catholics preach the true gospel to when they don't he's mistaken about what they believe

06:54

Yeah, right, but that much that's much different than being mistaken about the gospel itself Right, right And so I was assessing some of these claims a claim this video is getting passed around with 10 ,000 views

07:05

Kanye's on tour for the devil. I watched it for two minutes because people kept referring it to me and I was like, okay

07:10

I'm gonna give it a chance. It's this pastor saying No one can say Jesus is Lord But by the

07:15

Holy Spirit and so he named his album Jesus is King because it's Satan's way to avoid saying Jesus is Lord And he says this he says he hasn't said

07:23

Jesus is Lord yet. He can't say it I'm daring him to say it and I'm like he has a song called

07:29

Jesus is Lord. It's the last track Yeah, I was just thinking that yeah at Sunday service October 27th.

07:34

He's up there singing it. Yeah, Jesus is Lord So I'm like, yeah, he said it three days earlier It's a track off his album.

07:40

If we just do two seconds of research. Look at the track list We would know that's false information Why is this being passed off as discernment as if this is what being vigilant and testing the spirits means?

07:50

Yeah, and so for me, it's not a matter of defending Kanye and being a Kanye apologist Whether he's saved or not for me is off the table.

07:57

That's not That the angle that I'm approaching this at. Yeah, my angle is I take offense and problem with Weak charges unfair charges or false charges being used to justify a certainly guilty verdict

08:12

Right prior to crossing it cross -examination. Yep prior to the testimony of witnesses and the testimony of the man himself, right?

08:19

and because that's when you start contradicting and forsaking the law of God going against New Testament and Old Testament law and when this stuff starts getting passed off as Biblical discernment when skepticism and suspicion gets equated for discernment

08:35

They're not the same thing, right and if that's where we're at in in the church right now You know looking for a little symbol on an album cover or something and using that to invalidate hours worth of publicly professed testimony of Christ I'm sorry, but we need to reassess how we approach these things and make sure we're doing it biblically.

08:55

Yeah Yeah, and one of the things I want to say too is that when I have made a post

09:01

I want to give context for it for any of us who follow us on our social media how I started seeing a lot of the

09:09

Discernment like conspiracy theorists and discernment and stuff like that and I made a kind of Intentionally inflammatory posts and I was a little heated when

09:17

I want to give people context So and I use the word discernment mafia So the context was is that I had just watched one of the

09:22

Sunday services the one in LA at the forum Adam Tyson gets up there and His feet you've preached for 15 minutes and priest a full council of God in between that whole

09:32

Sunday service and What a next thing, you know, I saw in one of my Instagram stories were people talking about Oh, here's this oval shape and they're there all of a sudden

09:42

They're on I and they're channeling these demonic realms and it's all deception they're making hand signals and all these things are very vague and Arbitrary and assuming us one assuming the intent of the artist and essentially trying and convicting them in their own mind and so I wasn't even saying that necessarily to defend

09:58

Kanye, but My perception of that was that they're calling Adam Tyson who's on stage preaching the full counsel of God and saying this is totally a work of Satan You're calling someone who is an elder someone who's a pastor

10:13

You're calling them a minister of Satan or the fact that they don't even have any Need a level of discernment

10:19

Being in that context a lot more than you do being just looking at these random clips together someone who spent hours and you've talked about it who if you got also if you go to apology of studios and look at the interview that Jeff and Luke did

10:31

Talking with Adam Tyson and knowing what he believes doctrinally and he spent time personally like hours with him

10:38

Knowing that he can get a conscious go. This is an opportunity priest the gospel That's why I reacted that way

10:44

Because and like us and in a sense you are and I said if the Apostle Paul got saved today

10:50

No, if the discern no, I said if the discernment mafia were around the first century

10:55

They would have labeled the Apostle Paul as some sort of shill and and somebody in invading the church and they probably would have taken footage from his past prior conversion of when he's killing

11:05

Christians and what it would he use that Against them. So and that's part and I you know, and I again

11:11

I was a little it was a little mostly mostly charged when I use that post But that's really what we want to have in this discussion.

11:18

We're not here to be to necessarily defend Kanye We're not here to be advocating and Connie apologist

11:23

There's legitimate with concerns that we have and we want to delve into that. But the question is how are we approaching this issue?

11:31

What is the aspect of? determining even Like we're show about cults and even like cultish and fringe movements.

11:39

How do we look at? Certain things like conspiracies or things that are together. We're not denying those things exist

11:45

We're quite we're questioning. How do we bring to the surface? These sort of accusations or what are

11:51

Connie's true motives? Like how do we look at this holistically? That's really where it's all at Yeah And I think as well when we're looking at the or what we've heard

12:00

Stephen say there's there's things that he's talking about like charges That have been brought Evidence so we hear

12:06

Stephen talking about physical evidence that he's actually heard from witnesses who actually know Kanye But on the other hand we have people with symbolic evidence

12:14

That's not physical or tangible in this reality and if they know something knowledge has to deposit truth it's saying that they actually know what the truth is of the situation and Well, how

12:26

I think what we need to do is attack it presupposition early Well, how do we even know what truth is? Right if we talk about discernment if we talk about justice if we talk about any of those things those are actually reflections of attributes in the character of God And he actually gives us a way to understand who he is in a reflection of his word

12:44

And he gives us his law on how to even bring up a charge against anybody in the first place Yeah, so if what they're doing is actually in contradiction to the gut to God's law in God's Word Then what we can say is do they really know what the truth is, right?

12:57

Yeah, and they will say some people will say well, you know I'm just testing the spirits. I'm just being vigilant and You know,

13:04

I'm being noble like the Buryans Or I'm being skeptical like the disciples were first skeptical of Paul, right?

13:12

But why did they start believing Paul because Paul had a witness, right? Why were the the

13:17

Buryans called more noble than the other Jews cross -checked into the Old Testament they cross -checked them Yeah, but what's interesting about the

13:24

Buryans is that it says that they searched the scriptures daily Which means that they had been exposed to the preaching of Paul and Silas daily

13:31

Which means they actually had all of the content in front of them and they were they had actually been exposed to something right, and there's a lot of people who

13:41

I've seen on you know in ministry and just in comment threads of YouTube videos and Facebook posts all over social media where they are trying to take the

13:50

Buryan approach of Testing everything against the scripture, which is great But they haven't been exposed to the content like the

13:57

Buryans were right, right? they were exposed to teaching hours and hours and hours of their teaching and then they were taking that to the scriptures versus Watching none of Kanye's interviews versus hearing nothing from his witness and then pronouncing a premature early verdict against the law of God With certainty exactly and what people will do is so I just want to comment on this real quickly is

14:21

What I've observed that goes on in the body of Christ is that Suspicion is automatically equated with discernment.

14:28

I think if I can be skeptical about something that means I'm being discerning about something Right, the disciples were skeptical about Paul.

14:35

They were wrong. They were wrong in their discernment, right? But I can be skeptical about the air

14:40

I'm breathing. That doesn't mean I'm being rational, right? I can be skeptical that there's a world of physical objects in front of me.

14:47

That doesn't mean I'm being discerning In fact, there's times for skepticism would prove I have absolutely no discernment.

14:55

For example if I wanted to say Paul Washer's not a Christian Right. I'm skeptical.

15:01

He's a Christian why because the Bible says there's going to be false prophets in the end days Why because even

15:06

Satan can masquerade himself as an angel of light even Satan could quote from Scripture You know Even even the elect can be deceived and all of these verses test the spirits be vigilant and sober -minded the devil's

15:16

You know prowling around like a roaring lion and I can use all these verses But if I actually examined his ministry and his teaching all of these verses were incorrectly applied to Paul Washer But I didn't know they were incorrectly applied because I hadn't actually examined his ministry yet Right, right in order to discern anything to discern means to properly judge what's in front of you

15:39

But I have to actually have something in front of me before I can discern at all And it reminds me as well of in Psalm 82 6 where the

15:47

Bible is talking about unjust judges well, a lot of unjust judges and What they do is they circumvent the law of God so we can have testing the spirit

15:56

Testing the spirits and having you know, make sure you look at all of this information in order to test it all correctly

16:01

But if you don't have the correct foundation even test all that from you're still gonna come up with an improper conclusion

16:06

That's right. You know in God. What does God say about the unjust judges? He says they're gonna die like all men and be judged by God.

16:13

Mm -hmm. That's that's a scary thought. Yeah, and so there's this idea of due process that Nicodemus brought up when the

16:21

Pharisees so basically in John chapter 7, this is kind of a an interesting passage because The officers started to believe in Jesus and the

16:29

Pharisees were like have any of the teachers of the law Believed in Jesus and Nicodemus steps in and he's like, wait a minute does our law permit us to permit us to judge a man without first giving him a trial and hearing what it is that he

16:41

Does and so Nicodemus knew hey before we can pass judgment. We're not going to judge by appearance off a couple

16:49

Headlines that get snapshot and passed around social media Let's give him a fair trial search the entire fruit fruit basket before we pass a verdict, right?

16:58

Right Nicodemus was holding the Pharisees to this standard and the Pharisees out of their hardness of heart Wanted to forsake that and were willing to suppress the truth of Scripture to do it their response was

17:09

Haven't you searched the scriptures? there's no prophet that arises out of Galilee when Nahum and Jonah did and maybe

17:16

Elijah too and So they were willing to suppress the truth to reach the guilty verdict or turn a blind eye to the truth

17:23

Not just to not examine they failed to examine But they're also willing out of a hardness of heart to ignore blatant truth

17:30

That's right in front of them in order to pass this guilty verdict, right? And an analogy for that would be some clips

17:37

I've seen get passed around of Kanye whether he saved or not once again Irrelevant, but it's like are these charges true and when they're demonstrably false

17:44

Demonstrably false and they're left up there for the world to see in What sense once we know they're false now, we know that there's preaching that goes on at these

17:52

Sunday services For example preaching has gone on there since about May when he claimed to have been saved.

17:58

There's a quote that gets passed around online of Khloe and Kim Kardashian on Jimmy Kimmel saying there's no preaching there

18:05

It's not some religious thing that switched up when Kanye had a conversation with his father and now there's preaching there

18:12

And September 13th on the view Kim says there's preaching there We have access to these full sermons right

18:18

Adam Tyson preaching and but there's still videos that are left up Saying there's no preaching that happens there

18:24

And in what sense is that not Pharisaical like John chapter 7 where you're suppressing the truth or willfully ignoring the truth in Scripture to pass a guilty verdict out of a hardness of heart

18:34

Right if we have knowledge that this charge is false I have to take that down and edit the video if I want edit that part out

18:41

But to leave that up to me signifies a pharisaical hardness of heart Yeah, for sure. And then there's a part of me too

18:47

If you guys listen to the very beginning of this episode We played a clip of Connie on his interview with a big boy

18:53

T I'm big boy TV and he was talking about I was gonna laugh because he mentions the name of our podcast

18:59

He says a couple of the early Sunday services Yeah they definitely seem kind of cultish with all the white clothing and stuff like that and I remember we made a post on our social media probably a couple months ago asking people like what do you think of it?

19:11

What do you think of what's really going on? I honestly thought maybe there is some sort of potential religious cult going on here

19:18

Uprising or maybe this is just some sort of publicity stunt because it's just Kanye always doing something and I'm also viewing through the filter of someone who's kind of watched and followed his career at least since 2005 and you know seeing

19:29

Some of his outbursts whether there's certain interviews or jumping up at the MTV Awards I believe in interrupting

19:37

Taylor Swift and just seeing that whole persona About him so almost kind of putting him in a positive light was almost a level of conviction for me

19:47

Because again, none of us only only at the end of day only really God knows what's really going on where Connie's heart is at but Seeing the fact

19:56

I never for once even thought that it would be a legitimate thing that he's legitimately saved

20:02

But then after you almost after hearing The interviews with Adam Tyson and listening to a lot of his talks and especially just Listening to the content within that album that like there's more distinct and correct like Theology and he even asked

20:18

Adam Tyson He can just double -check to make sure that the lyrical content is biblically accurate

20:24

Like people don't know that or even the fact that even in the song God is he changed?

20:29

There's one of the lyrics which says this ain't about no damn religion and he changed it He went back and he adjusted it says this ain't about no dead religion because he was convicted about it

20:38

I shouldn't have said that word like in that lyric and so for me There was a level of conviction where I didn't presume innocence.

20:46

And so again, I'm not trying to be the Connie apologist I'm saying that we have to look at the whole situation.

20:52

We have to look at holistically and biblically about it so real quickly, let's talk about a couple of Like on that note, let's talk about some of the concerns.

21:01

We do have that are legitimate and are biblical so one of the things I would say is There's an aspect where you think about to Stephen like the first six months that you were saved

21:11

What were the things that you were into? Where were things like Doreen virtue has been on our program?

21:18

Things that she was into the first couple month a couple months or year that she was saved People will look at that and say no, there's no way that's definitely like a false convert, you know

21:26

So I would say like one of the things too is there's a level of He's learning a lot, but he's still a brand -new convert.

21:34

So you do have to be careful of that and like one of the biggest things too is One of the ways that cultish movement starts or cult start is there's they don't operate under authority

21:45

So there is a concern right now where you know, Adam Tyson has talked to him about he's not his ecclesiastical pastor

21:53

But if he continues if he operates where he's not under church or pastoral authority and let's just say all of a sudden he starts

22:01

Theologically going towards modalism where he denies the Trinity it starts doing something that kind of pushes towards something cultish

22:08

Theologically where you're dealing with something essential about the deity of Jesus and let's say he starts getting off kilter there

22:14

That could be very quickly dangerous and volatile, but that's a concern

22:19

But again, just because we have a concern and you guys can jump into this doesn't give us precedent to try and convict him in Abstentia of our own minds because honestly,

22:29

I don't know. I don't know the conversations that Connie has had Maybe he's in contact with a pastor now and not do it and figuring that out

22:37

I don't know but again, I can't establish something just in conjecture I could have concerns

22:43

But that doesn't give me a precedent to try and convict him to say oh he's gonna start this whole thing So you guys give me a give me your thoughts on that Yeah What I'm thinking is that any charge that has to be brought against has to have two to three independent lines of testimony

22:57

Right when we think about that we're thinking about physical tangible evidence not things that are not rooted in reality like thoughts and Subjective thinking about symbols right, so God's law is a safeguard

23:13

God cares about justice. It's a reflection of his character So, how can you cross -examine somebody's thought process?

23:22

You really can't so the charge shouldn't be brought up in the first place Like you said God knows his intentions of the heart right people don't so the question is is

23:34

Why why do people want to instantly go there? Why did why do they want to go so fastly to subjective?

23:43

Symbolic interpretation of some of something in order to circumvent the law of God What's what's the appeal?

23:51

Yeah, I think that there's well, there's a desire that people have to feel correct and there's a desire people have to Have special secret knowledge that other people don't and that's always been a temptation for man

24:05

It was the really the first temptation in the garden. Yeah, it was a temptation for me in the occult and Within Christianity, you know within hyper charismatic movements

24:15

There forms of you know, strange outshoots of Christianity this desire for secret knowledge special knowledge that gives me intellectual superiority or over another person right and I feel like What I've observed is

24:30

There seems to be some trends Behind some of the most outspoken, you know accounts and and forms of social media

24:38

Pertaining to to Kanye and a lot of them they they forsake the gathering of the brethren. They aren't involved in a local body a lot of them have like Hebrew roots elements to their walk with Christ or seventh -day

24:51

Adventist elements like they think that worshiping on a Sunday is pagan and the every holiday celebrating it is pagan is an abomination and that's that same camp and These people

25:02

I've interacted with some of them and some of them have been hurt by Christians and they've been hurt by the church

25:07

And so now they want Jesus, but they don't want the form of Christianity they had before They want a form of Christianity that makes them feel like they're justified in their pain

25:17

If you will they're justified and maybe they're unforgiveness or their resentment or contempt toward mainstream

25:23

Evangelicalism which hurt which hurt them, but now I can adopt this position. That's empowering where I'm Intellectually superior right?

25:30

I'm in the know right now and I can justify my rejection of them because there are false prophets

25:36

They're deceived. They're the blind leading the blind the ones who hurt me. We're blind. Mm -hmm, right? They aren't in the know like I am and So when

25:43

I've been pressing some some individuals online about their their evidence They're very quick to be they're very fast to speak and fast to anger

25:50

Mm -hmm, and that's not evidence of operating in the spirit, right? that's not evidence of cooperating with God, but there's this kind of like echo chamber where it's almost like there's a difference between raising valid concerns and Saying something without having investigated it right for the purpose of hearing amen brother from your echo chamber and receiving the applause of man and Getting power and identity and security from having people pat you on your back for being uncompromising in your wielding of the

26:19

Word of God And I can't prove that that's going on in certain individuals But that's a pattern that I've seen yeah, and and like Jeremiah said there

26:29

You know, there are some things that are concerning there's some things that are

26:35

Bothersome that Kanye has said that you know, and the Bible says this and I believe it's first Timothy 5 24

26:40

The sins of some people are obvious conspicuous, right? Well, the others are revealed later, right?

26:46

And so being cautiously optimistic cautiously Skeptically skeptically optimistic after having researched and actually done a full fruit examination.

26:55

That's wisdom. Yeah, that's great but there's a difference between that and saying he is 100 % certainly involved in the

27:02

Illuminati on the basis of this and then it's like, okay, let's go investigate that For example the the

27:09

Joel Osteen He spoke at Joel Osteen's church reason we could talk so many different trails, but Some apparent evidence that he's involved in the occult and that this is some kind of like an occultist scheme by the world elites first of all,

27:22

I would rule that out as a possibility a Priori Because of what

27:28

Kanye has said in his interviews. What do you think the could you clarify what a priori would mean for the listeners?

27:36

Prior to consideration and now so I think I have an in -principle reason to reject the

27:42

Illuminati theory on the basis of things Kanye has said and done in in post conversion interviews or post profession interviews where he talks about things like Having as many children as possible.

27:54

It's God's will right thing Wants Jesus in schools Jesus in the country.

27:59

He's anti -abortion He's anti -democrat He's a staunch capitalist who has encouraged encouraging people to go be by land to be private owners of land anyone in The woke community the discerning community will know that agenda 21 is a heavy

28:19

Pseudo Marxist Depopulation type agenda that apparently the world elites want to start working toward Kanye opposes them on all their major tenants

28:27

It's opposite. Okay. Yeah pro -family pro -private land pro -capitalism Anti -democrats have as many children as you possibly can that goes against the world view and plan of the

28:36

Illuminati according to any conspiracy theorist Mm -hmm and so when we see these weird symbols and then we have to interpret this against the backdrop of The fact that he's contradicting them on every single major tenant he tells people unless you've received

28:48

Jesus the Jesus of Scripture You're not going to go to heaven and he says and I say

28:53

Jesus Christ because I don't want you getting it confused with Green juice. I don't want you getting it confused with Yeah, yoga.

28:59

I don't want you getting it confused with but I'm a good person, right? He's like try saying that when you get to the gates You didn't accept that Jesus as your

29:05

Lord and Savior, but I'm a good person So we know he's referring to the Jesus of Scripture And so when it comes to we have to use that as our interpretive context

29:12

For seeing some of these things like a temporary hand sign held up. I'm not gonna hold up in the camera now

29:17

I'll get accused of being something but right Right, but there's interpretive framework, which is his testimony and the testimony of his witnesses now

29:25

We're gonna examine the charges in light of that, right? And so when we actually examine them, they don't prove out even if we didn't have that background background information like for example the

29:33

Joel Osteen Um The stage in the shape of an eye it's been in that shape since 2012 when they rebuilt the stage

29:42

They did that for acoustic purposes the lines in the stage and the shape are meant to help reverb sound waves out

29:47

So it's acoustic design. It's a basic theater design. So unless we want to start calling basic theater design satanic

29:54

We have a problem here. Yeah, and even that article it's just it it implies the fact that somehow

30:00

Kanye and his team secretly sort of built up this set themselves and thus now they're making some sort of a prop

30:07

They're altering in this sort of secret Deception into the church. But again, just a little bit of research like how long it take you to research that I just googled

30:17

Joel Osteen's church stage and I saw pictures of it looked like an oval from before he was there So it's like but that's why is that our standard of investigation to bring a charge like that against someone whether they're saved or not?

30:28

That the false charge that can be debunked in two seconds of a Google research yeah, and that's one of the things that I I was noticing too is that I did that post and a lot of people got

30:39

Really worked up about it both on our Facebook and Instagram pages when I talked about the discernment mafia And again,

30:44

I'm not talking about people for example, even though I don't there's areas in which I don't agree them theologically Justin Peters I have a tremendous amount of respect for the man

30:53

I think there's a lot of good that he does and I think he in a lot of ways I actually really am thankful for him how he's really dealt in many ways

31:00

I think very level -headed Lee with his sort of concerns on a many levels. It's felt like a breath of fresh air

31:07

Compared to a lot of this sort of tenfold hat discernment, which I'm gonna fairly call it because it's just it's really it's bad and all honestly, it's embarrassing because on a level where you're claiming to be a

31:19

Christian and You're claiming to know Christ but then as soon as you go to discernment and trying to determine truth you automatically become a

31:28

Gnostic and Almost sort of that worldview that came out of the New Age or the occult

31:33

You're adept you're adopting a New Age Gnostic occultic mindset with trying to discern this because you're appealing to secret knowledge

31:41

I've said I saw multiple people that I was interacting with I have the screenshots again You want to talk about witness and testimony people who were saying how

31:48

Jesus has given me private revelations He's given me secret knowledge about what's going on with Kanye said therefore

31:54

I'm in the know I know and you don't and in any of these things that I kept on getting tagged over and over again

32:01

I'm this stuff and as soon as I have experienced the same thing as soon as I just started the law of God it

32:07

Allows for people who bring accusations to cross -examine and as soon as I was cross -examining

32:13

Any of these things that they were tagging me and immediately I got lost last I got lashed out at I was called a wolf

32:19

I was called a Freemason That possibly even we were plants for the CIA. I mean and all these things just for Questioning their operative thinking and there's something that's a real problem when we look at that so again.

32:32

We're talking We're not saying that you have to believe you have to accept our point of view that Or even they had to believe that Kanye is saved you want to be concerned you want to be caught you you want to be?

32:44

Concerned but you want to do and we but you want to look in the way, that's rational and deal that level -headed Lee Yeah the

32:50

Bible says this in Ezekiel 36 27 it says the the God that God takes our heart of stone and replaces it with a heart of flesh and he causes us to observe his statutes

32:59

So the law of God is his statutes right Deuteronomy 19 15 2 to 3 independent lines of testimony

33:06

Deuteronomy 17 6 2 to 3 independent lines of testimony. It's a safeguard It's a protection even for the person from sitting against somebody else, right?

33:13

You know what? I mean, so God himself incarnate Jesus Christ in Isaiah 9 It says that the government will be on his shoulders

33:20

Jesus Christ cares about law he cares about justice you as a

33:26

Christian being a little little Christ in a sense a Follower of Christ should want to imitate that right, you know, and if we want to circumvent the law of God That that's a it's a scary position to be in when you're in the discernment ministry to try to push those things aside

33:41

Just to put your agenda into it, right like I don't have to examine any of his own testimony

33:48

I don't have to watch a couple hours worth of what Kanye has said about his own conversion his own testimony

33:53

I can assume guilty until proven innocent Something that won't even pass in a courtroom full of unsaved

34:01

Reprobates the presumption of guilty prior to examination doesn't even pass in man's court

34:06

Why would you think that would pass in God's court when Jesus is on the throne dudes? Exactly. So our duty as Christians when we read the

34:13

Bible, we want to know our Savior. We want to love our Savior, right? We want to get to know him personally and we do that by reading his words

34:19

So my question for anyone that would be involved in that intense discernment camp is do you know your

34:25

God? Like do you have you sit back and thought about that because that's acting totally contrary to his nature in his law

34:33

Right and that that worries me for any of you guys. I want you to know him. I want you to love him and And yeah,

34:39

I mean right and once again, there's that distinction between I don't know whether he's not saved or not

34:45

I have maybe I have a personal opinion. He's not but if I'm going to publicly condemn him and pass 100 % certain guilty verdict and My charges are either weak or insufficient right to get there and I and by the nature of the charges

35:02

I'm revealing I have not Examined the testimony of his witness or of him

35:08

I Have then you do have to ask the question You know, what is my motive here?

35:14

Am I really being motivated by the Spirit? Right, you know Is this something that the Lord has laid on my heart to do and say or is this me?

35:20

Doing my best to try and serve God while operating in my flesh Where am I trying to serve the Lord in the Lord's way? Right because Jesus says this he said then this is serious to me

35:29

And this is why I most often don't speak about Ministers and stuff online unless I've really delved into their ministry, right?

35:37

Jesus says, you know, we will give an account for every idle word. We speak Every useless word that we speak against another person.

35:45

We're gonna get a more he cares right by our words We will be justified by our words. We will be we will be condemned He cares about what we end up saying about other people because here's what time what happens you stand before him on Judgment Day and you have a servant of the

35:57

Lord called of God and you're standing next to that servant and Jesus is like you were speaking idle words and untrue words slander false witness

36:07

Contrary to my standard of due process and you know, I'm not Calvinist So I would say and you impeded the ministry

36:15

I wanted to perform through that individual's life for the good of my kingdom and the people that Work were called to listen to him.

36:23

And so now you're gonna have to give an account For those people who did not receive edification and maybe salvation through the ministry

36:32

I want to do to that individual because of your false witness and the idle words you were speaking Contrary to my law contrary to proper investigation research.

36:40

I'm not going there. I am NOT gonna go but I'm not gonna do that Yeah, yeah And so let's talk about just a couple of the things that were brought up as far as the different Conspiracy theories or just sort of these formulated accusations that these there are these occultic and masonic

36:57

Accusations against Kanye. This is just for example, so you made this post

37:03

I gave you the idea talking about Connie's record and Your opening sequence of what you said was so like you like you said you loved it

37:12

You said that's cool made me laugh nice for days after that's weak What did you say at the beginning is your are you are you rooted in tinfoil hat conspire like a user it was like is your skepticism of Kanye West rooted in paranoid tinfoil hat conspiracy causes you to reach

37:31

Unjust conclusions contrary to the law of God. It was like the most loaded question. You could possibly ask someone that's funny

37:38

Yeah, yeah, that's an example where it's like this is this obviously hasn't been investigated and this was used as like a knockdown argument

37:44

Oh, yeah, and they had no aunt and people had no answer and they said oh, well, let's take a look at the album cover

37:50

It's got the number AR 33 1a which is it which is on The record if you look up the album

37:55

Jesus King And so this is definitive evidence that there's some sort of secret Masonic code and it has like the number 30

38:03

You know 33 or has a secret symbol and it's also blue and gold and so people use that But we if you go if you follow social media

38:11

We made this post talking about how this is literally it mimics a record You just do a little bit of research back from the 1970s

38:19

I think it's kind of cool and it's it's from the original glorious Church of God in Christ by Ruby Shelton and He talks about and the cool thing is too is that his name is

38:30

Ruby And so in a sense he's for paying homage to the past saying that ye recognizes ye

38:36

And so it's really just this homage to this old gospel album And that's a factory print code on that's what happened with all records

38:44

Yeah that's all that it is and but all of a sudden people to have this assumption of guilt and they take those colors and they

38:51

Associate it that this is definitive guilt and just for example, I will show this so I'm sort of I bought this hoodie almost as a joke and if you

38:59

If you guys are watching this on YouTube channel, because I mean with me question just questioning a lot of these people online

39:05

There's a media this association that all of a sudden Apologies studios were Freemasons. So I kind of jokely bought this thing on Amazon for 24 bucks

39:13

So there literally would be people who would take the fact that I'm wearing a blue hoodie talking about Jesus King But somehow

39:21

I'm secretly associated with the Freemasons and I'm defending Kanye They'll spin this thing together and that's that's the problem with this whole level of reasoning and this is where it gets cultish

39:32

With discernment is that people it's almost that a lot of the and I'm not saying conspiracies don't happen

39:37

They do and I love that stuff. We've got a couple of cool episodes coming up about particular things regarding Epstein and stuff like that I mean, that's a big thing all the different Epstein didn't kill himself memes, but almost there's a level of a lot of this

39:51

Conspiracy theorism is really it's almost like a mind -altering Narcotic where if you constantly deal with paranoia and are looking at this stuff all the time

40:01

That you just live in this level where you can't rashly look through anything I mean, I've seen a couple of these videos of talking about the great

40:08

Kanye deception and They're playing this paranoid like exorcist music

40:15

Trying to convince you of something the guy looks like wide -eyed like he's just terrified He's about to have a panic attack and it's like dude

40:21

That's not like if you look like here's the thing if you're in a court if you're in a court of law Right and you are a prosecutor

40:28

Are you allowed to bring in your boombox and hit play and play a bunch of exorcist music as you make the case to try?

40:33

And convince the jury would you be allowed to do that like no and I actually saw video.

40:39

Sorry, but I actually saw video It was accusing Kanye of using marketing techniques to promote his album

40:47

Doing different, you know designs about when to release an album or just basic marketing techniques how to name it how to color it

40:55

How to take Dominion in the marketing realm how to just be effective doing what you do Like but that same video of course used a lot of editing and you sensationalist music to try and communicate a point and people up For their agenda as well.

41:08

And so it's ironic and it's hypocritical and like you said the number I just want come on this real quick the number it's a pressing plant code and then on the right side of the album

41:16

It says number 33 and people say well, why does it say 33 rpm? Well rpm means rotations per minute 33 45 and 72 are the most common vinyl record speeds and so That's something where you have one of the primary pieces of evidence used to justify this idea that you know, he's a

41:35

Masonic actor Planted by the Illuminati on the basis of this evidence. You see this guy comes out with a record store in Detroit He's like this isn't our in our old artillery record, you know gospel track that Here's what the numbers mean.

41:49

It means nothing conspiratorial and That takes two seconds of research, right?

41:56

So It's yeah, it's it's like where where is your fear of God Rooted in those conspiracies.

42:02

Do you have a fear of God or do you have a fear of man? You know if we rightly fear God We will be guided by his law because we fear not the one who can kill our body

42:10

But who can destroy our soul and send it to hell Right. Yeah, but if you fear man, all of your thoughts are gonna be rooted in conspiracy because it's about this world ruled secret society

42:23

Whatever, but I believe that Jesus is King that all authority on heaven and earth was given to him and he says go therefore

42:29

You know, he is the actual true King. I don't believe that there's these secret societies, you know controlling everything

42:38

So where my question is, where's the fear of God or is it more of just a fear of man? Sure.

42:43

Yeah, and even even the fact that if you look at whatever is going on with Secret societies the new the

42:50

Illuminati the Knights Templar the Masons Skull and bones or all these things like at the end of the day if you approach this from a

42:59

Christian world view You're supposed to begin with the fact that in the beginning God Right Genesis 1 1 that you have a

43:07

God who spoke the world into existence and he works all things According to the pleasure of his goodwill

43:13

So God has purpose and intent with whatever is going on behind whatever Kanye's motive this guy who's so high up in the sphere of a public figure and He knows what's going on and at the end of the day like I don't know his motives but even if you look at what happens like the

43:32

Bible talks about and we were telling us before the show in Philippians when Paul talked about he's in jail

43:37

There's people who are out there preaching the message for ulterior motives

43:43

And some of them even to try and discourage him while he's in chains But he says at the end of the day though Christ is being preached and for that I rejoice so I don't know

43:54

What his motives are? But again if you look at some I've seen that even YouTube comments of people that were in the new like New Agers like you came out of the

44:04

New Age and there's a YouTube comment on the section on the song God is and Someone they said like this is really

44:12

Persuading me to embrace Christianity and then then it says parentheses edit He goes I decided to give my life to Christ if I don't

44:20

I don't know if I'm gonna be able to live any longer Like and I just got like teary -eyed, but I gave all the glory to God like in that moment like praise the

44:28

Lord So even though if I don't know Connie's motives the fact that he if he is giving glory to Christ talking about worshiping

44:34

Christ And you look at the all of those Lyrics and especially the one the one that kind of really got to me when you talk about and this is another thing too

44:41

Is that like I follow his career? He's always someone who's hasn't been shy to voice his opinion Like you just named the interview.

44:50

What's the name of the one interview that was done a couple years ago? Where he's talking about he's he's da Vinci in the flesh sway the universe.

44:56

Yes. Oh my goodness That's I'll get it all out go on that more and more in a second

45:01

But he's always someone that spoke in his mind But when he is talking for example He is very public effect the issues with mental health and his bipolar that he had and there's a couple of videos if you look

45:12

Up online to where he was doing a concert recently from one of his previous albums And he just had this great mental breakdown on stage where he just ranted and kind of walked off Just a couple of songs and people just thought he was it's it's a public record.

45:27

He went to the hospital He had this mental breakdown But I remember there's a level of just believability when he's talked about Jesus saved me now

45:35

I'm saying Like there's a level like that's heavy even if Like even if Kanye has bad motives there's a level of the gospel like when you first got saved when you have like that video that you have it's like 800 ,000 views and there's a level of Clarity this mental clarity when you saw all the creation

46:00

That was giving like glory to God and you understood that it was the real

46:05

Jesus of Nazareth Testifying to you so at the end of the day that even if Connie in that let's just say he has bad motives

46:15

It's what he's seeing but doesn't negate the fact that what he's singing about is definitively true when someone embraces the true

46:25

Gospel of Jesus Christ and knows the real Jesus and now there's Nazareth as a personal Lord and Savior there is

46:32

You have a new mind you're given a new heart like that's a reality and that's true regardless of what

46:38

Kanye's motives are Yeah, I want to comment too on his bipolar. Yeah, because so for me, there's a bunch of there's different categories

46:45

Some people are saying I don't know whether he's saved or not. I'm gonna be cautiously optimistic. Let it pan out great amazing

46:52

There's some who are saying he's 100 % a false convert and then there's others who are saying he's 100 % an

46:59

Illuminati puppet now if the only the only option on the table for me is That he's as far as the skeptical camp goes is that he's self -deceived about his own salvation

47:09

God's moving in spite of his self -deception He'll be the one who says Lord Lord, you know and then depart from I never knew you but this idea that he's like a satanic

47:17

Illuminati plant on the basis of claims that can be explained with two seconds of research

47:22

I'll talk about the dome structure in a sec. Yes, that's a big one In fact, if you look at our episode, we we posted that picture particularly just to get your attention, right?

47:32

Yes, but as far as the claim goes that he's like an Illuminati satanic puppet when he's pro -family

47:39

Pro private land have as many children as you can keep Jesus in the country Jesus in the schools

47:47

Anti -abortion Trump supporting anti -democrat like all these things go against what any conspiracy theorist will tell you is the

47:55

Illuminati agenda But also what about his bipolar disorder if I'm one of the quote world elite working in some deep state a cultic

48:02

Agenda, am I gonna get someone who has? Clinical bipolar disorder to do my bidding for me

48:08

Can I rely on someone like that if I'm the Antichrist and I'm or I'm someone who's gonna end up working for him and I'm laying the foundation for the

48:18

Antichrist under like a pre -millennial dis be eschatology Am I gonna pick someone who's bipolar who can flip on a dime and tweak out and reveal all the information

48:28

He's not supposed to on a dime who's known for having mental breakdowns and walking offstage Is that someone

48:34

I'm going to call to be the front -runner of an Illuminati agenda someone? Someone who is mentally unstable the answers the answers obviously no right now

48:44

I mean, it's silly and then the other question is if he is in fact an Illuminati puppet and in a

48:50

Satanist I heard someone say he's a hardcore Satanist Yeah, and he sold his soul to the devil already and he said it and this this this it's like well, that's his past life

48:58

You know, Jesus doesn't judge you for the sins of your past life and neither do I and if we want to start playing that Game he died for them.

49:04

Yeah, exactly like the measure you meet against others will be measured back to you So if you want to start pointing to his past, that's a reason to invalidate his profession if that starts happening to you

49:13

What are we gonna find? Yeah, but the point is is that They will point to certain things in his life as evidence that he is like an

49:24

Illuminati end -times world elitist puppet and The question comes up if he's actually willfully participating in that can

49:34

Satan cast out Satan Jeremiah brought this up to me where it's like we do know this We do know that someone who is self -deceived about their conversion and ensnared by the devil and blinded by the goddess this world

49:45

You know 2nd Timothy 2 25 2nd Corinthians 4 4 that someone who's under either the effects of Satan or the oppression of Satan can bear good fruit for God's kingdom and do mighty many mighty things in his name and Say to Jesus Lord Lord and say

49:59

I never knew you But if someone is willfully serving Satan right and cooperating with Satan and is now bearing good fruit for God and causing people to give

50:07

Their life holding altar calls for people to come give their lives a thousand people coming up. There was a

50:12

Someone who went to a Sunday service recently said that Kanye didn't speak. He just came up to sing

50:18

Jesus as Lord He was very humble. He was in the background There was an altar call a thousand people came forward to give their lives to Christ if that's a deliberate

50:24

Satanic effort by someone who is willfully serving Satan in a part of the Illuminati can Satan cast out

50:29

Satan can a kingdom divided against itself stand exactly. No in which case at best he's self -deceived about his own conversion

50:36

Maybe there's things to be concerned about that allow us to reach that conclusion. Yeah, but the Illuminati puppet thing.

50:41

I'm sorry There's not there's no evidence for that Yeah And one of the biggest problems too and this is honestly just it's embarrassing and it's just terrible

50:48

Discernment with with dealing with all this is that you are using someone's past To charge them in the present

50:57

About something that's completely separate from that. So just if you want to look at something that's blasphemous And I'll say it like I would say it's blasphemous, but I cannot use it against him this particular instance so in the easiest to her a

51:10

Kanye would have this moment where you would have someone dressed up as Jesus come out on stage and he would do this whole

51:15

Sort of dialogue interaction and I was so uncomfortable even just watching it In doing research for this and you act in this there weren't

51:23

I think it's went in one of the concerts in Seattle in the Jesus tour There's a guy the guy who comes out as she is they're doing this dialogue and there's got there's people in the front row

51:30

We're filming it and there's like Kanye dude. This is not right. This is like too far Like they're honestly scared of what he's doing but at the same time that that This is the problem too is that they're taking these clips

51:42

From time from like in the past or one of his award shows where he's got like these angelic wings

51:49

You know trying to say that he's part of this like grand deception, but you're spinning all these things together but the reality is is that You can't you're spinning this all together in abstentions in an assumption of your own mind

52:02

And trying and convicting him right but at the end of the day you're doing it via private revelation

52:07

Whereas the public revelation talks about someone who comes to know Jesus and it says and such were some of you

52:14

Who can bring a charge against God or like God is the one who justifies and so at the end of the day if Kanye is legitimately converted and let's just say he's a baby

52:23

Christian and there's gonna be times where he's gonna say still like There's been times where I have I've said stupid stuff

52:29

There's times where I've had people that I've been very close to I've hurt I've had falling outs with people that I know and love and care of I've I've said things that I wish

52:38

I could have taken back That I've had to just like give to the Lord, you know There's times where you use that your people are going to he's gonna say dumb stuff, you know

52:48

But you can't use that past like against him biblically you have to look at the present situations

52:55

Yeah, so I loved it Jerry because I was actually just gonna go into that Bible verse Yeah You can bring a charge against God's elect because that goes in with me where I'm at with Kanye is that he's professed

53:05

Christ I have no physical tangible evidence to even bring a charge against this man

53:11

Yeah, there's there's issues like what like you said what he said about TD Jake's Mormonism even going to talk with Joel Osteen but those are those are more areas people can grow in but if I know what

53:20

Jesus Christ did for me on the cross the Wicked person that I that I was that he died for God in the flesh that he died for How how then could

53:32

I bring a charge against a man without actually having this evidence? Because it's almost overstepping the sacrifice of Christ yeah, and that's a scary position to be in who who is anyone to try to Overstep the boundaries of Christ's sacrifice for a person when he's already said

53:51

He's told the devil and hands -on the song told the devil. I've been I'm going on a strike

53:57

I've been working for you my whole life told the devil when I see him on site so he says his entire life prior to his profession, which

54:04

According to his testimony was the beginning of May the very end of April that everything

54:10

Prior to that moment was working quote working for the devil his whole life. Yeah, so he's already publicly acknowledged that yeah

54:17

That's of the devil. Did I say I sold my soul? Yeah Did I you know make some claims about the universe speaking through me and did

54:26

I adopt some weird? You know pseudo new age Ideas about how fate works about what is and isn't operating through me.

54:36

He said he has said some weird new agey stuff, right? And actually yondi the album that he was going to release.

54:42

Yeah, you know, there's a song on the album called the law of attraction There's another song called alien or something

54:47

It's like there's some new age themes in that album, but he says I was gonna release yondi Jesus Christ did the laundry

54:54

Yep. So once again, we can't go to yondi and say well he wrote about this this this this at the end of 2018

55:01

The question is does he stand by any of that now? Yeah, he's publicly renounced it. Yeah Yeah, and even for example you know you look at even his album

55:09

Jesus and the song like I am a god and it's almost like I was just this is a weird thing.

55:16

So I was really wanting to know as someone who followed Connie's career and Just knowing like a style of music.

55:23

The guy is incredibly talented Just the amount of things he's been able to compose and put together. He's very gifted

55:29

I would say that even he's like God is the one God has made us all very creative That's just part of the

55:34

Dominion mandate like to work till and subdue The earth and his his one is like through artistry like through he's gifted through fashion and Like, you know, cuz

55:44

I know you're a big lover of shoes You got some cool looking extra shoes that Ross the other day and they're not for 30 bucks.

55:49

That's Yeah, you're not gonna be showing up in preacher sneakers. Yeah, I know but But they just started following us on Instagram So maybe we'll hear the plug if you guys want to check out an awesome

55:59

Instagram account preach your sneakers I always get a kick. It's funny kick out of them or kicks. I don't know pun intended.

56:05

Oh, that's good. Oh, man But yeah, I mean he is someone who you're looking through his entire career

56:12

And I was even listening to some of this music prior to the album being released because I just want to kind of get

56:17

I Wanted to filter the old versus the new and even like the song like it's the song like I am a god like I Believe like there's levels in which he meant what he said and it's like an almost a level like that song that's legit for me

56:32

It's like legitimately terrifying Because there are a lot of people who think that about themselves

56:39

But you compare that With Jesus Christ the very last part of the very last song in the on the album

56:46

Where it says 40 is funny when I first listened to the the very last track on it I kept on thinking something was wrong with my phone like why is it stopping at 40 seconds?

56:55

Like what the heck I kept on like starting in again like oh, it's only 40 seconds now Realizing I think what he was trying to imply and say is an artist that That basically

57:06

Jesus must increase and I must decrease because he could have made this huge grand finale But it's very simplistic 40 seconds every knee shall bow every single tongue shall confess

57:17

Jesus is Lord right which unfortunately the sermon guy was wrong so right so let's do this We have a lot more than we can unpack.

57:23

There's a couple things. We also need to discuss one of the other legitimate concerns that We have especially there's there's levels to be cautiously optimistic.

57:33

There's levels where you can be legitimately concerned not because of Spinning this whole all these narratives together trying to find a shape or a triangle or something like that There's very vague and arbitrary, but there is a reality that in ministry

57:47

I even kind of being on any level in the public sphere, and you know you have a large following You know our podcast we have a couple of episodes that really like we hit the top of iTunes in a couple different categories a couple of times there's levels in which anyone has that temptation when you're in front of the camera to be in the public sphere to make it be prideful and Have it be all about you when you're talking about someone who's who's really big

58:09

So if you look at the level of celebrity that he has I mean Kanye West who's been

58:15

Won multiple Grammy Awards. He's married to Kim Kardashian There's just the level of publicity you get being with him

58:23

So even though though if Kanye has the best of motives There's a lot of people out there who want to be a preacher

58:32

For the sake of fame like we were talking about there's a sort of preacher industrial complex right now of guys with expensive shoes like skinny jeans and like they that Especially like crew cuts that they have and they all they all just kind of go through this mold and like there's a lot

58:46

There's a lot of them that Want to be these like famous Instagram preachers Where it's kind of like why wouldn't you want to kind of be with like Kanye West and let's just say

58:55

Kanye has the best of motives, but they're Not doctrinally solid like a lot of them are not and we're gonna we're gonna probably talk a little bit about Joel see in the next episode there's levels in which

59:06

People this could gather people with the wrong motives and could have undue influence on Kanye Which could go really bad really fast given all the different things

59:15

He wants to do like producing Jesus King part to dr. Dre, which we could even talk about to the whole level is so interesting

59:23

There's that go ahead with what you're I wish I would say this too is that You know all things we've talked about and there's things we haven't talked about which we need to like like the dome

59:31

Where does that originate from? Yeah that You know There's this this clip of him at Coachella and he's worshiping in a circle and they compare this picture of the circle to a new

59:40

Age rainbow circle and saying well, this is new age and this is a cult Well that first of all, he wasn't saved then he never claimed to be saved then

59:48

So that's part of his old life that falls under the category of quote working for the devil So we can take that off the table as evidence

59:53

But my question is this is that you know when it comes to someone like Justin Peters Right when it comes to someone like Adam Tyson who is an adjunct professor at Masters University Who is an alumni of Masters University who has a

01:00:09

Doctor of Ministry degree and a Master's of Divinity degree who has spent? Countless hours

01:00:15

Ministering to Kanye discipling him having Bible studies with Kanye being flown out by Kanye to Wyoming to have

01:00:22

Bible studies with him Having Bible studies at his house having meetings two three -hour meetings where Adams going through the gospel and Kanye has his phone out taking pictures of You know

01:00:35

Romans 1 17 and you know Romans 3 and John 14 6 because he wants all these scriptures

01:00:43

He's so enthusiastic about what he's reading that he says, I want to go to Masters and take classes myself He said this.

01:00:49

Yeah, and then he's like, hey pastor. Can we have you come preach these Bible studies at Sunday service and Adam Tyson is like,

01:00:55

I don't know if I'll be a good idea. Well, can you come preach then? I want you to preach for an hour He's like you don't want me to preach for an hour.

01:01:01

You only a preach at all Why why not because I'm gonna preach the gospel and it's gonna change the dynamic of Sunday service

01:01:07

He's like that's what I want. I want people to hear about God Hmm right so for someone who has had this exposure to Kanye Has all the theological training who has real -life experience discipling people protecting his flock from real wolves

01:01:21

Identifying real converts from false converts. He's a counselor as well. We have Justin Peters who's in a discernment ministry for a living

01:01:29

Neither of these two men they're exposed to all the same information. We are Yeah, his theological gaffes his pricey merch being sold at his events and none of these people aren't coming to a conclusion

01:01:40

That he's 100 % Unsaved on the basis of those things, right? Yeah, right.

01:01:46

So my question would be what did what do I want to be careful? I say this Why would we think that I mean,

01:01:53

I'll use myself hypothetically Why would I assume about myself that someone who hasn't this isn't true of me, but who hasn't

01:01:59

Discipled anyone who's never had any real -life ministry experience

01:02:05

Who's never shepherded a flock who has 2 % of the exposure to Scripture and theological training that these two men have?

01:02:13

What do I know that makes me? 100 % certain that he's a false convert so strongly that anyone who disagrees needs to be exposed

01:02:21

What do I know that these two men who discern teach preach live breathe the

01:02:26

Word of God fool for a living one of whom? Has spent dozens of hours with this man to you spending zero with him

01:02:32

What do you know that? They don't know when we've all been exposed to the same content. Mm -hmm, and there needs to be this intellectual humility upon realizing

01:02:41

Hey, let's listen to the testimony of witnesses before we pass judgment because he's optimistic God's moving in his heart

01:02:46

He thinks he is yeah, that doesn't mean he is doesn't mean he's not doesn't mean that he's saved doesn't mean that if he is Moving the devil can't come and steal the seeds later

01:02:54

But the question is if we're gonna claim something so pat pat like positively and passionately to the contrary

01:03:00

What do we know? What have we been exposed to that Adam Tyson who does this for a living reaches each breeds breathe sleeps the

01:03:08

Word of God? seriously for a living and is Pastoring a flock. Yeah discerning false converts from true converts for a living

01:03:16

Yeah, seriously, right versus someone who knows a couple Bible verses about end times out of context and You know has never spoken to Kanye sat with Kanye or even heard anything he said post conversion

01:03:28

There needs to be this intellectual humility I'm not making an appeal to authority to Justin Peters or Adam Tyson to save but it's like well

01:03:36

They're authority scripture, right? Yeah, we need to be mindful that there's very very credible men of God who are seeing all these same things the meeting with Osteen you know

01:03:45

Adam Tyson's like there's some people we're not in theological agreement with and it's concerning and But that's there's a difference between something being concerning and something being sufficient to establish a guilty verdict

01:03:55

Yeah, two totally totally different things and one more thing. I'll say real quick is that you know within like Communities that I'm involved in online

01:04:05

Like I do have some loose ties to some discernment type ministries that are pre -millennial and that are concerned about end time stuff

01:04:12

Yeah And at best a brother who I really respect has released a couple videos on this saying we need to be careful

01:04:19

There's some things that are concerning. I'm not sold. Let's be careful. Let's not hop on the bandwagon. That's amazing But there's nobody in my circle of influence youtuber

01:04:28

Instagram or people who their account is end times based people in real life ministry I go speak it like here the watchman and times conferences for example.

01:04:36

Yeah people who write books on this stuff for a living They aren't coming to the same conclusions that these

01:04:44

Spurious YouTube and Instagram accounts are about him being a wolf in sheep's clothing These are people who are actually biblically qualified right who have their face out there

01:04:53

Who are walking the walk and talking the talk who have reputation in ministry who have people can who can vouch for them?

01:05:00

They have references because they're actually in the public. They're not hiding behind a screen you understand

01:05:06

Yeah, like people who are actually reliable in this very field of discerning Mm -hmm, they aren't on this boat on this ship of Kanye is a

01:05:13

Freemason Illuminatis But they'll write books about how the Illuminati and deep state occultists are influencing things.

01:05:19

So Just want to throw that out there awesome So this has been I I feel like we're just kind of like getting our gears going and I'm super pumped to kind of jump

01:05:26

Into part two of this discussion So I Steve appreciate you coming here and really having kind of really important conversation

01:05:33

I hope you guys will really appreciate what we brought up here in part one So if you like this episode go ahead and listen go ahead and comment

01:05:41

I'm sure you'll definitely be commenting on this episode I don't have to tell you but let us know what you thought about that about this discussion

01:05:48

Go ahead and leave us a review in iTunes. Let us know what you thought Also, we need your support here to continue to produce more content here at cultist

01:05:55

We have a lot of things in the pipeline Multiple different episodes episodes about Epstein stuff on seventh -day advances and we're jumping into that Hebrew roots

01:06:04

Which you mentioned we have an episode like that in the works right now as we speak There's just so many things but we cannot do this without your support

01:06:12

There's all all this work and all this whole stage and stuff. There's a lot of people work hard for that So if you go to the cultist show comm go to the donate tab

01:06:19

You can either support us monthly or donate one time We need your support there and we're just gonna pray and trust the

01:06:25

Lord with that all that being said We'll jump into part two of discerning all things Kanye West conspiracies