Christian Nationalism, Warren McGrew, Warning Against Slander & Gossip, Leftist Twisting of Language

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November 3, 2022

A wide variety of topics today as the title indicates, possibly prompted by the first cool and rainy weather of the fall here in Phoenix!

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00:32: Well, greetings welcome to the dividing line on a cool and windy Day here in Phoenix.
00:38: It's the high today is only give you in the low 60s. I'll be honest with you. I remember many a
00:45: Christmas of the mid 70s, so You know, I'm sitting here looking at this camera and I'm realizing it's it's it's not flat
00:54: It's it's tilted over this direction. I don't know why But that's new
01:00: No, no, it's new it's been bumped probably the legs or something.
01:08: I Am yeah, I'm looking right at it and he's over there someplace and see this is this is what
01:17: I deal with Regularly, okay Anyway, remember you smashed your head on the
01:28: Again on the front of the RV But Twice first time you went down.
01:34: I mean the first time you were you were on the ground. Okay, you you and I've pulled this thing 20 ,000 miles.
01:42: I've hooked it up unhooked it I've never done that and he just gets around it and smashes ahead against the front of the
01:49: RV. So I'm not sure that he's really in a position to judge what's level and what's not right now
01:58: There You go Anyways, so it's uh, it's a cool
02:04: Breezy day here. We might have some more rain coming in And that that's great,
02:11: I think that's wonderful I'm looking forward to I told a friend in st. Charles That I would really appreciate because he said they've got beautiful weather right there
02:19: And I said I'd appreciate if you get rid of that before I get there Because my weekend in st.
02:24: Charles each year is my getting into the Christmas spirit Time and so if it's like here, that's not gonna that's not gonna help much
02:33: You know a warm breeze and the palm trees does not do much to get you in the
02:38: Christmas spirit though Look at this. Look at this sweater. I've got on I mean There you go.
02:45: Yes, sir. So will you be doing Christmas lights in the RV? Yes Okay, already already have one string and I ordered the little tree for it today.
02:55: Oh, okay Yeah, I would have been surprised if you didn't yeah. Oh, yeah I you know, I'm thinking ahead last year got everything got scuttled.
03:03: So this is your chance to really do it. Yep Yep. Yeah, I got some little LED lights
03:09: Last month. I haven't pulled them out yet because I didn't get him till I get back and then I got the little little
03:15: LED Thing and I'll just tape it down Just tape it to the top and that way it doesn't fly all over the place when
03:23: Yeah, super glue for everything Hey gorilla gorilla tape man gorilla glue gorilla tape.
03:29: It's all it's all good It keeps things where they're supposed to be and you're bouncing around in an
03:35: RV. So yeah, so that will be the first weekend December We're gonna be doing the Doctrine of Trinity and this year we're gonna be talking about the current controversies
03:45: You know I was going to do this. Sorry I'm still signing these there are people who still have the 1998 edition of these of these things and I I Want to you know someday
04:06: I'm gonna pull some of the some of the quotes out of here just to go Yeah, see, you know, it's interesting so many people
04:15: Thought this was so great for so long and now huh, I guess you didn't notice these things
04:20: So we'll be talking a little bit about How do we know the Doctrine of the Trinity? Is it something that developed over time?
04:28: That that is the majority view in I guess what we would call broadly
04:35: Christendom Um But that's certainly never been my position and I can't see how it could ever be the position of anyone
04:47: Who would hold to solo scriptura? Those are some of the questions we'll be we'll be looking at we will be looking at the doctrine itself, obviously as it is revealed to us in Scripture and I have found over Coming up on four decades of ministry now next year will be our 40th anniversary for Alpha and Omega Ministries looking forward to that If we remember it
05:14: When you when you got rich and I in charge you're remembering these things that you know We may realize that the week after and go.
05:21: Oh, man But I've realized over 40 years of ministry that the people who are the most deeply
05:31: Blessed and rooted in truth are those who are rooted in Scripture Not in some dedication to a particular tradition denomination anything like that, but are rooted in Scripture itself and then can see
05:53: You know if if in their confessional tradition they see Biblical truth great fine, but there's a there's only one direction to go here.
06:02: It's not it doesn't go both both ways Can't go both ways not and leave
06:07: Scripture in position of ultimate authority While making those last comments,
06:13: I just realized that I Did not queue up and I apologize and did not in fact get a chance to even work through again
06:23: And Rich and I have been busy the past couple of days Not really doing anything on social media, but getting our fingers and hands dirty and You know using a half -inch you know just working on stuff nuts and bolts and and I was putting the tonneau cover on the on the truck and that kind of stuff and so When doing that I'm generally don't have a phone nearby to be monitoring social media or anything like that It's actually been sort of sort of nice.
06:58: Let's be honest with you anyway, I So I almost hesitate to respond to it, but At the end of the last program everybody was saying you need to look at this and I wanted to 80
07:12: Robles, I guess posted something because I had responded to a
07:19: Twitter thread I think Tuesday morning as I recall about Christian nationalism and Mere Christendom and these issues, okay
07:35: And obviously I've listened a lot to what? Doug Wilson has said about mere
07:42: Christendom Which is a little bit different than mere Christianity I have criticized the mere
07:53: Christianity concept for a long time But again, it's all a matter of definitions.
07:59: What is mere Christianity? We're not talking about C .S. Lewis specifically Though he's not irrelevant
08:10: I Have been a strong critic of the kind of taking a position
08:19: Where you minimize the Christian faith you get as small as you possibly can
08:26: How do you do that you limit the definitional aspects of the faith down to The Trinity and The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and what you're trying to do is you're trying to create as large
08:49: A group that can agree Mainly, I mean even when you think about that think about when you talk about the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus in the mere
08:59: Christendom model Those are totally historical statements.
09:04: You can't ask the question Why? Why did Jesus have to be truly man and truly
09:13: God? Um Could Eutychianism have worked? Couldn't Historianism have worked?
09:18: Apollinarianism so on and so forth. No, you can't all that stuff is Out there.
09:24: It's a place the idea is That you want to create the biggest
09:32: For most people political bloc you can And hence the gospel is right out
09:42: Because you're not gonna get a whole lot of agreement on the whys and wherefores of the gospel and so the whole idea being
09:55: We we can create this fictional big blob of people But there's really nothing to hold them together there's there's they're not pulling the same direction they're not going toward the same goals
10:07: All because you leave the gospel out and so I have criticized that for a long long time and I I remember back in the late 90s when the
10:18: ECT stuff happened. I wasn't the only one criticizing that stuff back then
10:25: There were a bunch of folks that joined together to say yeah, this isn't this isn't good and So Doug uses the term mere
10:38: Christendom. Now, what he's is he talking about? He's talking about Seeking to When you when you talk about well right now a phrase
10:49: I hadn't heard repeated over and over and over again
10:54: Christian nationalism. Well, we talked about that a Couple days ago and a couple programs ago and I said at the time
11:02: I said again, what's that? How do you how do you define it? Okay, there's books come out
11:09: Great haven't had a chance to look at yet. But we'll come book comes out And when I hear Christian nationalism,
11:15: I just go you mean blesses the nation whose God is Yahweh You mean
11:23: Sin is a is a rebuke to any people is that are we talking about?
11:28: The command to disciple the nations and To proclaim
11:35: Christ Lordship Far and wide and to say that the standard of judgment
11:42: Act 1731 is going to come from Christ and obedience to his ways and his purposes
11:49: Is that what Christian nationalism is is that saying to a nation? That if you want the fullness of God's blessing if you want your citizens to experience the fullness of happiness and joy then they need to live the way their
12:07: Creator intended them to live and Who is their Creator? Christ, right?
12:16: So Jesus the maker of all things obey Jesus's commands and Your people will be happy and your nation will be blessed.
12:27: Is that Christian nationalism? Well, I would assume in a
12:33: Secular world that's Christian nationalism because you're literally saying to the nations that Christ is
12:40: Lord and he's the maker of all things and therefore you cannot ignore him and you cannot just simply put him in the
12:47: Category of one religious leader amongst our religious leaders because there's an empty tomb There's an empty tomb
12:54: Everybody else's there's still bones in them their tombs. And so This is sort of a basic idea that okay
13:06: Most of my adult life I had never really been challenged to think about Again myth of neutrality, church -state, wall
13:17: They're gonna be neutral toward us we're gonna be neutral toward them and And of course it was silly
13:24: Of course it was silly But we didn't even think about it because there was
13:31: In essence a functional neutrality going on at least we didn't figure that the state was gonna be coming after us
13:37: We we know now that was pretty naive and dumb, but that's where we were So is that Christian nationalism is is that just simply
13:47: Taking seriously the the call to Call individual men women boys and girls and Those are the only options out there to faith in Christ to repent and believe and to bow the knee to his lordship, so that's where the certain elements of evangelicalism immediately jump ship because they don't believe that's part of What repentance and saving faith is anyway?
14:20: Is it that and a recognition that especially today? Where we have so many amazing issues facing us
14:33: That the answers To all those questions will be found only in Christ and in his truth
14:46: Or is there something more to it than that Because I'm well aware of the fact that there is they're very complicated questions
14:57: When you say we want to actuate Christ's law in a society
15:06: My understanding when I for example a couple years ago read the mission of God by Dr.
15:14: Joe boot preached at Paula Gia last Sunday. In fact When I read his discussion of what he called
15:24: Christian libertarianism and what it would look like to see a
15:33: Post -millennial Concept taking shape What was central to all of that was you this can't be forced outside of the changing?
15:45: hearts and minds in other words Until there's a majority of people who have truly been regenerated
15:55: The idea of making Application of law just isn't going to function you say to the you you present to the people
16:08: The benefits of obedience To God, but if the majority of people are still in rebellion against God What's that gonna?
16:20: What's that? What's that gonna do? you you have to have there has to be a major work of the
16:26: Spirit of God in bringing about true regeneration in a very large portion of the population
16:34: Before you can even start talking about these things and I guess what it was what happened was there was that Graphic where you have all these big muscular arms coming together and I forget what they all were but It included
16:52: Roman Catholicism. I think it said crazy charismatics or something wacko Pentecostals.
16:57: I forget what it was, but Anyway, um and I made a comment that that basically was like oh
17:10: I remember it was the comment that I've made on the program over and over again. And that is as we are pressed into a smaller and smaller cultural neighborhood we will be
17:26: Brought together and this would certainly be the case like if we all end up starting started getting put in the gulags together
17:36: Where there's gonna be a very strong Reason to start minimizing the specifics of the gospel
17:46: To try to create as broad a consensus as you possibly can and that's always the first casualty
17:55: That's always first casualty because the gospel if you really understand it biblically is so utterly destructive of human pride and yet So many versions of that gospel are
18:21: How do I put it? Designed to maintain
18:27: Man's free will and pride and so on and so forth. And so the gospel gets
18:35: Shoved off to the side. We're never gonna agree on this So we've got to put out so that we can get all these big muscular arms together
18:44: And Unless the gospel is in there to define
18:52: It's not going to be Christian nationalism, you can call it religious nationalism.
18:57: You can call it what you want, but it's not Christian because it doesn't have the gospel that changes hearts and minds and hence will
19:08: Crash and burn spectacularly and Church history shows this
19:13: We we've tried it in the past but we again lost the gospel and you ended up with a massive nominal claim to being
19:30: Christian and Yeah, there were There were great benefits to be obtained from obedience to at least parts of God's law, but Without a changed heart, it can't be heartfelt obedience, right and It'll rot from the inside and it did rot from the inside.
19:57: And so my Positive hope for the future is completely based upon a massive outpouring of the
20:08: Spirit of God because I the nation's will be Desirous of the law of God they will they they will desire true and proper things.
20:19: What's the only way that can happen is If there has been a tremendous outpouring of the
20:25: Spirit of God in bringing about true conversion regeneration not mere baptism where Historically where you got
20:40: Infant baptism to the max you had gospel to the minimum and what did that produce if we can't if that's
20:53: Mere Christendom, that's not going to cut it unless there is True dedication to the things of God to the gospel itself
21:05: You're not gonna have anything called Christendom. So I Apologize to A .D. Reblis that I didn't
21:11: I Downloaded it But as I said sitting in the back of my truck sometimes getting on my knees
21:22: Attempting to get those those clips To the right spot to hold the rails in place.
21:30: You can put the tonneau cover up. That's not the best time place to be Listening to videos.
21:36: I mean I have done things similar to that I just didn't bring stuff along to listen to and and stuff like that.
21:43: So I Apologize if I have completely missed the the context of of everything there
21:55: But oh Okay, I pulled that down No, that's not what
22:02: I wanted I'm also looking for Huh? I don't see it in my in my
22:08: Dropbox. Um, yeah, I wanted to play
22:16: Something else here in a second, but I'll try to multitask here. It's probably gonna fail
22:23: Spectacularly. No, it didn't scrolled up to it immediately. Um Maybe I'm not even addressing the issues
22:32: Maybe that wasn't what was being discussed. Maybe why made the comment wasn't understood, but that's what
22:37: I was talking about. Is that Apart from see
22:43: I would see as A sign of the outpouring of the
22:48: Spirit of God well, they couldn't hear that but None of these these have you noticed these microphones just do not pick up that kind of it's thundering outside So I'm watching the video and I see a sign going back and forth out there
23:09: And we could and I see it on the on the radar too. We've got some we've got there's some
23:16: There's some orange in that one. So we may get some some good rain here in a second. Anyway It would it would be a sign to me of that outpouring of the
23:28: Spirit in bringing the true gospel to bear That we didn't have all those strong arms, but that there was a
23:41: Abandonment of so much of the errors that are represented by those quote -unquote strong arms and so again
23:54: Christendom without Christ is dumb Boom Christened It just it doesn't work and as I said,
24:09: I'm watching a guy trying to get into the winds blowing his umbrella all to pieces and It's it's it's coming down Real real good.
24:19: Like I like I said, there's orange and in them there in them there storms So that means it's it's coming down good
24:27: So if we all of a sudden disappear This used to be more the case here in Arizona You know that, you know as soon as the big thunderstorm hit you could expect the lights to go out at any moment
24:38: It's not not quite as bad as it used to be But if we all of a sudden disappear
24:46: That's what it was. I can assure you because she's coming down pretty good out there right now anyway, so that's
24:52: I will try to See if I've missed the point
24:58: Or if I've guessed correctly as to what the point was, but that's what I wanted to say about that.
25:04: Okay What What is so many twitch has determined that that we need to get
25:14: Doctrine of life to develop a new t -shirt based on what you just said The Christendom without Christ is just dumb the dumb.
25:23: Yeah, there you go t -shirt I'll stand by that I don't know who would who would argue against that at least
25:32: I hope so I at least hope most people would not argue against that but there you go
25:39: Sort of watching it's it's one thing for it to be raining raining really hard if I start seeing hail
25:44: That's when I start getting a little Little a little concerned but so far so you probably can't see any of this can you oh
25:53: Yeah, well I've got the whole thing up here and it do be raining pretty pretty well anyway
26:02: Thankfully I did find this and Over the past couple days
26:10: I Saw a Description and I'm not sure if this is the nice short one
26:27: Wow Again, I know you can't Can't hear this but Okay, here it is
26:35: And I need to send you the sound here. Sorry about that All right.
26:41: I'm hooked up to that now. I guess about a year ago. I Haven't paid attention to Warren McGrew in a long time
26:55: Warren McGrew young guy well younger guy the idol killer, you know all the stuff that You know, he was really going after total depravity and original sin and stuff like that and Then he started playing around open theism, but he didn't want to say it was open theism
27:15: He called it dynamic omniscience and then he interviewed an open theist who said no that's open theism stuff like that and you know, we went back and forth for a while and then you know,
27:27: I do that stuff if it's educational and then once it starts getting really repetitive, then we we move on and So I saw a video
27:39: That was put up and it's One minute and 43 seconds long
27:48: So the guy That Warren McGrew has on his program is called
27:54: Paul Vendretti Never heard him never heard him tried to look him up.
28:00: All I found were his own Websites, I didn't find any books teaching Nothing, so I have no idea where he's coming from or why he's on the program for that matter but the subject is
28:16: Penal -substitutionary atonement and it is not at all surprising to me
28:23: That the direction in which Warren McGrew has been going has continued on the path that I said it would be continuing with this
28:37: Denial of penal -substitutionary atonement and again if you are not aware
28:43: You know most evangelicals just Accept as a given
28:51: That Christ died so as to provide
28:58: Penal -substitutionary atonement the wrath of God for his broken law the wrath of God the
29:04: Father is fulfilled in the death of the Son and This is what provides the foundation of peace
29:14: The ability to have an imputed righteousness the need for an imputed righteousness is all associated with this doctrine of penal -substitutionary atonement and Most again most people just simply that this is the default this is simply what they've heard and So sometimes they're surprised to discover that there are other quote -unquote models now,
29:40: I don't like the idea of models Using terminology of models makes it sound like we have this
29:52: Mass of biblical data, and we have no idea what it means But we're gonna model it this way and model it that way well given how horribly poor
30:04: Meteorological modeling has proven to be or voting modeling has proven to be
30:11: I I'm not sure how useful the the term is but what happens is we send folks off to Bible College and Seminary and They They get taught by all these bright folks
30:31: And they get introduced to stuff that they they never heard of back home and in church when they were teaching
30:38: Sunday school or Sermons or whatever else and they find out there are other models.
30:47: So the Christus Victor model Christ as victorious over The powers of darkness
31:00: There's the the ransom to Satan model Where Christ pays a ransom to the enemy of our soul to free us from his control so that we can have peace with God and As we've taught on this program over and over again.
31:20: No one can No one well I was about to say no one can blame us for not having talked about that and then
31:26: I realized how many lies are being Told about me today. It's like I'll never mind that somebody could but no honest person
31:35: Could accuse us of not having informed people for a long long time of The fact that Those of us who hold to Something like penal substitution atonement.
31:51: We do so because of our view of Scripture and that puts us in a small minority and We have
32:00: Said over and over again That it took to the fourth century Before a full -length
32:08: Tome treatment of the doctrine of the atonement appeared from Athanasius and That means it was
32:19: It was not the central focus of Dispute and hence definition
32:27: That there were Men who were important in church history such as Irenaeus of Lyon vitally important in fighting
32:38: Gnosticism in the late 2nd century our primary source of information on Gnosticism until the discovery of the
32:45: Nag Hammadi library and other Findings last century that gave us many of the original documents of the
32:50: Gnostics And yet He held to what's called the recapitulation theory and again most evangelicals have never never even heard these terms before The idea that Christ had to live through each age of man to redeem each age of man, which is why
33:13: Irenaeus Amazingly said that it was an apostolic tradition Passed down from the
33:20: Apostles outside of Scripture The Jesus was more than 50 years old had to be so as to redeem old people
33:28: Now nobody believes the Apostles actually taught that today, but Irenaeus did and So You you've had all these different models and then
33:42: Those models continue on and you end up getting mixtures between those models and You end up with the
33:51: Anselm and Abelard and their discussions, you know in the medieval period in Regards to what the real nature of The Atonement is and the very fact that there is still this conversation going on Shows how late
34:13: In development What we have in reformed circles really is and that bothers a lot of people
34:24: People who want church history to Be a mirror Not mirror in the good sense of being able being able to show us what
34:33: Christians are like down through the ages But it just you want everybody in church history to look like you So that that affirms that you're right and everybody else is wrong.
34:43: Well, that's a fundamentalist idea and It's a false idea. It's not there's nobody that can honestly look back in history and And Find that everybody looks like them
34:58: It's just simply not the case and it wasn't God's intention. Anyways, be perfectly honest with you so The reality is all of these different models
35:11: Have elements of truth in them So there is clearly an element of truth
35:19: There are there are biblical texts and themes that refer to Christ as Victor as Defeater of death.
35:27: Yep, and there there's even an element to the recapitulation concept where Christ has to truly be man and he has to truly suffer and he has to truly experience temptation and and And stuff like that.
35:44: So there's an element of truth to that But it's when people say well, it's only this and when you when it comes to penal substitution atonement, there is a
35:55: Scholar last century C. H. Dodd, I think pretty sure is C. H. Dodd Haven't read
36:03: Dodd in a long time, but I think it was C. H. Dodd who Was so averse to the concept of God having wrath
36:16: Just did not believe that it was helpful or useful at all to speak of God having wrath
36:26: That that's why he Preferred the term expiation to the term propitiation because expiation does not make reference to the wrath of God Propitiation does to propitiate is obviously to turn away wrath
36:48: Expiation doesn't involve that and so he preferred that terminology
36:53: And a lot of people followed him in that There is in PSA, penal substitution atonement, an inevitably offensive
37:08: Element of a recognition of God's wrath and holiness
37:14: You can't you can't Factor that out. You can't soften it.
37:19: You can't get rid of it and so especially Looking at Modern Christianity trying to fit in and get along with a
37:32: More and more secular naturalistic anti -biblical society you can see where the where that would be pushing where that would be going and So you can see why people would reject
37:47: PSA for those reasons So there is a history behind all this and I think it is important for people to know where all this came from and what those conversations were and I mean,
38:01: I'm not I'm not sitting there going I'm not gonna sit there and say You're gonna become an atheist if you don't
38:07: Know as much about church history as if you had read You know the origin of Christian doctrines by Burkhoff or something like that But it's it's helpful if you want to know where your terminology came from and Why there is such a strong emphasis upon these things in in your understanding of Scripture Takes us takes us back no matter how hard we try to avoid it to what we all remember it took place with dear blessed brother hunt
38:46: All those years ago now when on KPXQ radio here in Phoenix when he gave me a
38:56: Completely traditionalistic interpretation of John 6 that had nothing to do with the text. I said Dave that's just your tradition speaking and he said to me
39:03: James I have no traditions and We all have traditions
39:12: All of us have traditions and the only way To be able to honestly say that you are saying that when you present
39:23: God's truth That you are able to say thus saith the
39:29: Lord is if you do the proper exegetes exegesis and hermeneutics so as to detect your traditions and of course if you embrace the idea that you can't in other words that Those traditions actually have to function above Scripture.
39:48: There's no reason for you to believe in sola scriptura any longer Because you you don't believe it your traditions are
39:55: Your ultimate authority and you're you're stuck with that whether you recognize or not
40:02: So anyway, all of that to get us back here to this clip.
40:07: I'm going to do the audio So don't worry about switching the video but I I listened to this
40:18: Brief clip Matt Estes Posted it. So thank you Matt for putting that up there.
40:25: I downloaded the whole thing, but I was there was no way I was gonna have time to Fast forward to it.
40:30: I didn't get it queued up before him but again,
40:36: I Can't even start to explain who Paul Vendretti is I followed the links.
40:43: I did do the Google and it was like There was something Where he was going after Hank Hanegraaff Okay, whatever
40:53: But this was an amazing Snippet so let's let's take a listen listen to it hope it works here and Here we go.
41:05: If you believe in PSA the fine details of the hypostatic union matter not at all
41:10: All that matters is that Jesus have a physical body with blood in it
41:15: So that God the Father in his wrath can spill the blood Now this is a provocative thing
41:21: I'm about to say but in penal substitutionary atonement Jesus of Nazareth is really nothing more than a bag of blood that's stapled to the second person of the
41:30: Trinity That the Is the deep discussion from Warren McGrew in response that I would think now
41:42: I have that's only 28 seconds. So I Would I would think that almost any
41:50: Orthodox Attender of church let alone theologian would hear that Statement now, maybe there was just a whole bunch that came before this.
42:07: I Can't imagine what it would be but that's just some of the most inane
42:15: Absurd Filled with animus
42:22: Blather I think of I've ever heard a Bag of blood stapled to the second person of the
42:30: Trinity That's what penal substitutionary atonement means well, that is just When you use that kind of argumentation and maybe that's what happened to Warren He was just so stunned that he couldn't enunciate any meaningful conversation
42:47: But it is interesting Maybe and this is possible
42:55: Mr. Vendretti Venedretti, sorry, it's a very small print over there
43:03: Maybe the problem here is that he's only responding to Some of the what shall we call them?
43:18: Oh Well, there let's just there have been remember that most of you don't remember back in the 80s
43:27: There was a Intra fundamentalist controversy Where John MacArthur got into a bunch of trouble?
43:38: Got into a bunch of trouble and for years. Well, even to today. I saw somebody going I still see people going after MacArthur to today
43:46: In fundamentalist circles about this saying MacArthur denied the blood What John said was
43:56: That it that the blood of Jesus is not some magical thing You know that's sitting in a vial someplace and God takes a little dropout for each person to get saved or some strangeness like that The giving the shedding of blood was the giving of life
44:15: It was Substitution of a perfect life and hence all of the
44:25: Importance of Christ being Dianthropos the God -man of being truly man of Truly suffering of not being a
44:36: Gnostic You know the Christ Spirit leaves as the body dies on the tree
44:44: Dualism and all the other stuff that people have come up with It is vitally important that Christ is truly the
44:53: God -man why because The people of God are united to Christ in the sovereign election of the
45:03: Father So that his death becomes their death it's not it's not
45:11: A Magic blood time. It's the giving of the perfect life in behalf of those who are united to him.
45:19: And so It's still penal. God's law is being fulfilled and It is necessary that it be fulfilled and when you don't have that as a part of your theology you end up with what you've got in Islam Where a law can just simply you know
45:38: That sins gone no atonement's been made the law remains broken sins gone and If you want to see how that plays out
45:51: In debate in a mosque in front of the Qibla in A majority
45:58: Muslim audience then go watch the debate. I did with Shabir Ali at the
46:03: Al -Bukhari Mosque in Wow, it's coming up on a decade ago That just hit me.
46:09: It's 2013 That's 2013. I want to cry
46:14: I Wow, that was
46:21: That was an amazing night I have a picture from No, no, that was in Erasmus a suburb of Pretoria.
46:34: I Remember My dear friend and I afterwards we started
46:42: I think that's the night we started the tradition of going to McDonald's after debates there in South Africa Because by the way
46:49: McDonald's tastes the same wherever you go in the world except for Italy except for Italy you buy a quarter pound of cheese in Kiev well, maybe for after the war.
47:01: I don't know but when I was in Kiev you buy a quarter pound of cheese It tastes exactly the same but not
47:09: Italy and in South Africa does too and that night we just sat there talking about what an amazing thing it was to be able to Stand there that close to these individuals and talk about My need of an alien righteousness a righteousness outside of myself and where does that come from?
47:28: it comes from that penal substitutionary atonement and without that you end up with The Muslim view and I'm not gonna take time to narrate the
47:39: Hadith on that right now about the 99 man who killed 99 people we've done that many times in the past, but Maybe it's just you know, when you hear someone, you know, he said
47:49: I'm gonna be provocative No, it's just that was just being dumb That was just that was just I'm going to ignore the very substance of the vast majority of Everything that has been written on this subject from a believing perspective since the time of the
48:10: Reformation and create I'm just gonna I'm gonna soak this baby in kerosene and light it up and Let you see her burn.
48:21: That's that's what that just was and the response from Warren McGrew was
48:27: Mm -hmm Yeah, yeah, it's fascinating that Craig would deny these things but it's not it's not at all shocking knowing his presuppositional commitments there
48:37: But if you study if you study what the early church had taught about these things I mean
48:42: Gregory said that which Christ did not assume he did not heal And so if we're to take these words from a faithful member of the of the body of Christ to have any merit
48:51: If all he is is flesh and blood then he didn't heal our soul. He didn't heal our mind He didn't heal these other attributes.
48:58: And so in PSA, it really seems to me that the incarnation is
49:05: Has it has almost hardly any? meaning or merit to it other than just to make a bloody pinata it
49:19: How do you how do you respond to something that absurd Union with Christ The fact that Christ needs to be the
49:28: God man that makes a bloody pinata The the fact that the Sun what what pinata has ever voluntarily given himself in obedience to the
49:39: Father You're just you're just left going Why do these people waste their time and hours?
49:50: It's Stunning it's it's it's something that can be beaten and spilled and that's all it is
49:56: There's no human Healing there's no there's there's no actual redemptive merit there anywhere to the degree that you would have with the restored icon model the restored icon model
50:08: Oh The restored icon model well icon image definitely used maybe this is in reference to something related to restoring the
50:20: Imago Dei well, there is that's part of Reforms to teary ology
50:28: But it's also a part of Reforms to teary ology that that Imago Dei was greatly marred by sin and With federal headship was marred in the fall of Adam and we know these are things that Don't fit well with those who struggle with original sin federal headship, whatever else it might be.
50:53: I don't know And it seemed it seems to be really troubling that we would say that that Christ assumed these things
51:00: And it seems to me in Scripture at least But then have to deny those in order to get to an atonement theory that comports with our presuppositions
51:08: It it seems rather him what they call that Ham -handed ham -handed. Thank you.
51:13: Yeah Ham -handed. Well, if you want ham -handed What is ham -handed is to refer to Jesus as a bloody piñata or a bag of blood
51:24: Staple to the second person in the tree. There's that is ham -handed That's I I vote to have that made the new definition in the dictionary of ham -handed
51:37: Wow, there's just so much stuff out there these days on These issues it's
51:45: Wow Anyway, I did want to get to one other thing and I'm noticing that my time is going by Let me just make a quick quick statement we had a
52:02: Tweet today that a number of people have noticed
52:08: I just want to recognize it in passing and and Point out how this process has been going on for a number of months now
52:18: Um Quote inseparable operations is necessary from the doctrine of simplicity
52:24: Denying inseparable operations implies a denial of simplicity a denial of simplicity implies atheism
52:32: This is the kind of Thinking That worked well during the
52:42: Inquisition and Is what allowed the Inquisitors To to view themselves as the very
52:53: Instruments of God as they whipped flayed Racked and tormented the heretics the the term implies is
53:11: A very very dangerous term You can make the argument that That the adoption of Aristotelian metaphysical categories in your study of Scripture and the doctrine of God Implies a movement toward the
53:32: Aristotelian God who is if there even was a single God is anything but the
53:39: Yahweh of Scripture and so you can do that you can make that kind of an argument and Say see that's why
53:51: I'm gonna have nothing to do with such -and -such a person and I've seen a couple people today
53:58: Things have been sent to me some public some private We just need to cancel
54:04: James White we just need to stop responding to James White we just need to you know just Put him out put it out.
54:12: We're done with him. He won't he won't submit to our Magisterium Um One person did say we have the exegetical
54:22: Arguments, let's just make them and the rest of us are like, please Finally, that's it.
54:27: Please. We've been waiting. We haven't seen it yet. But please try
54:32: And I was gonna try to get to and I and I will Got a queued up try to get to The continuing response to the
54:43: Baptist dogmatics stuff because at least There we can get into a claim.
54:49: Here's the exegesis. Okay, good. Let's see what it looks like But a denial of simplicity implies atheism that you need to understand they they get to determine what simplicity is and Anything less than their understanding and their metaphysical construction is a denial of simplicity and That way that way you don't have to worry about You know allowing people to have differences of perspective and no you just Now remember this is not a doctrine that until two years ago if you had stopped 99 % of evangelical pastors outside the door on a
55:37: Sunday morning. They would have gone what? Inseparable who simple what what but it's now the be -all and end -all of all things and men
55:50: Who never preached a sermon on this they never taught a Bible study on this named it They didn't teach in systematic theology.
55:56: They didn't no idea are now comfortable canceling others and Saying no, you can't can't trust that guy anymore all the bases of a doctrine that they know in their heart and soul was never a part of their understanding of Christian theology
56:15: Until very very recent very very well, we understood it implicitly
56:22: Okay, you anybody who claims they they know anything
56:27: Aristotelian implicitly The best you can do is laugh
56:35: But so yeah here When the history of this particular situation is written
56:44: I hope people will remember and recognize Who Insisted on the division and the cancellation and the separation
56:58: And it's pretty clear. It's pretty obvious a denial of simplicity implies atheism I guess they would say well, we were just ignorant of it before we didn't deny it.
57:09: We just had no idea It's so central the doctrine of God you didn't know it So you weren't worshipping
57:16: God all this years, were you? Just just be honest. Just just be consistent
57:22: Anyway, yeah, there you go. That was that was fascinating One other thing along those lines
57:30: I Want to there is a concerted effort in certain parts because this program has been on for so many years and Has as wide an audience as it does
57:48: There is a concerted effort In certain areas to cancel us to Tell students pastors teachers, whatever
58:03: That we are no longer reliable. And unfortunately what I'm seeing is there's a lot of lying going on in The process a lot of misrepresentation a lot of straw men and Just a reminder if if you don't speak the truth
58:19: God's not gonna bless it and you you will be held accountable for the words of your mouth and the movements of your fingers as well and There are those who are saying
58:35: For example that there are people Who've reached out so so for example, well, why didn't you why don't you go to California and do this this side of the other thing?
58:47: I won't name a name, but there was someone at a seminary that did reach out to me a couple weeks ago
58:53: It was right as I was going to get our new tow vehicle Which I used for the first time today,
59:01: I pulled the fifth wheel today two miles ain't very far we've still got some adjustments to make to Make things work.
59:11: Well, but excited at the progress And excited at how much work rich has to do before I leave next
59:20: Right, yep. Hey, you're the you're the you're Tim the tool man Pierce So you do you want do you want me working on that hitch?
59:30: No, you know the look on his face just now No, no The fact the matter is
59:40: I've had to do some of that stuff on my own out there on the road and So far, it hasn't fallen off a cliff.
59:48: So don't you know, but anyways, we got some work to do on that But it was right as I was
59:56: Picking up the truck and had long drive back. And so I said to this individual I've got hours in the truck be glad glad to talk
01:00:06: I had a conversation with somebody else same area, but he's on my side Generally, I guess he would say we had a great conversation.
01:00:16: So it worked out really well and and So I was more than happy to do it and this individual would represent the other side of this conversation, okay
01:00:28: I said, let's do it and Then he got back to me. I forgot there's this big thing going on and I'm just gonna be really really busy and Could we do it later on and I wrote back said sure let me know when and I've never heard sent back since that was a month ago
01:00:43: So I was the last one to go. Sure. I You're busy. I am too. But like I said, it's a busyness that allows me to talk
01:00:52: Never anything more today. I hear from that general area About someone who's reached out to me and I refuse to talk to them.
01:01:02: It's just a lie. It's not true This is not true Tony Arsenault Wanted to do some type of a
01:01:11: I don't know mini debate type thing and I'm like, well I understand a mini debate type thing, but I'm more than happy to answer whatever accusations you're making about The Holy Spirit and the knowledge of the
01:01:23: Holy Spirit and something I even wrote a little article and there's been no further conversation there and I haven't been pursuing it because My initial thought was there was an accusation being made that I had spoken an untruth and nothing came of that So Don't believe everything you're told
01:01:49: Sadly there there are some who are Sometimes Institutional Survival Causes even true followers of Christ to say and do things that Honestly, it's one of the reasons
01:02:11: I'm thankful that we have a small ministry we've had a really outsized impact for how small we are, but I don't have to worry about the mortgage payments on Millions and millions and millions of dollars worth of property and I recognize that people who do can sometimes do things that in the eternal scheme of things
01:02:39: Because that million -dollar property ain't gonna mean anything eternally In the eternal scheme of things just are embarrassing and so When you
01:02:54: When people start repeating rumors, it turns into slander and it ends up being
01:03:04: Falsehoods, just be careful what you're saying to others and That will be very very good for you.
01:03:10: Was there something you were adjusting the camera? So yes We haven't seen this for a while.
01:03:15: I didn't know if that you know that up there Yes, we're gonna use as a mirror to comb your receding hairline or just what?
01:03:22: At least I have one to comb anyway, so I would too I just I just know when to give up on it
01:03:29: Not ready for me. Not by a long shot. Anyway, you know, it seems to me I Answer the phones here.
01:03:37: I'm the only one that answers the phones. I make sure that wherever I go This phone is tied to the master number.
01:03:45: There is an 800 number where you don't have to pay for the call the
01:03:52: Last week I saw On a YouTube Video that was
01:04:01: Going after us on this subject and I saw in the comments talking about how hard it is to get ahold of us
01:04:09: How hard it is and it's like you know what? Yeah I don't put our email address up there and the reason
01:04:17: I don't put the email address up There is because what I get is entire books written out where somebody's sat there for hours and hours at their keyboard writing a book and That's what they throw at me.
01:04:31: Well, they sent they print those out and send them to the PO box, too. Yeah, too and they
01:04:37: They seem to think that that's a an effective method of communication I got back to the old -fashioned way of you know
01:04:44: What I made it easy for you to make a call you pick up the phone and we can talk you have a question you?
01:04:50: have a comment you want to talk about something I answer the phones and People call me
01:04:55: I've talked to them all the time I've received And you've hanged you've hung up on a few people too that hasn't been known to happen
01:05:03: But it has to get pretty extreme to get that way. But um You know, it's like during the show here.
01:05:09: It's voicemail, but I've received two three different calls during the show But at least there's a voicemail there that they want nowhere to get coogies that are nice as mine.
01:05:18: Absolutely not the The point I'm trying to make here is is that when somebody tells you that we're hard to get a hold of?
01:05:26: We're not hard to get a hold of not at all But if you don't actually want to talk to us, but you want to write a book in email it's hard to do and That's what
01:05:39: I find the vast majority of these people they want a one -sided conversation they want to dump regurgitate all their thoughts out and be done and you call you're gonna get a two -way conversation and I But again on this subject
01:05:56: This phone has zero Never not once rang on this subject not yet That's because we're answering all the questions maybe that is the case
01:06:10: I don't know but probably not probably not Yeah, no, I just want folks to understand that I am being sent things.
01:06:19: I'm seeing things That just clearly indicate to me that there is a coordinated effort to Try to get people to stop listening and Thinking about the issues that we're raising and You know, that's not how
01:06:41: Christians do things but Christians do that it happens. It wouldn't it's not the first time but it's certainly
01:06:49: Amazing this time. Okay. One other thing I wanted to get to Again, I'll just do
01:07:00: Audio is there was a Woman dr.
01:07:06: Dowson co -director of the gender clinic at Children's, Philadelphia Who is being interviewed by someone?
01:07:13: I don't know if the person interviewing them was Positive or negative toward them.
01:07:18: I couldn't tell But I'm gonna have to queue up where this starts so Because it says watch again.
01:07:27: So give me just a second here. Oh good. I want to make sure I understand the Full range here.
01:07:33: So puberty blocking drugs followed by the cross -sex hormones It's my understanding they can prevent the full development of the penis and the breast and can even result in loss of fertility
01:07:44: The questions about fertility. These are important ones that we discuss with Patients and families early on and often
01:07:54: So we have to certainly have discussions prior to starting puberty blockers and prior to starting gender -affirming hormones testosterone or estrogen
01:08:06: You know, what's interesting? Let me let me just stop for a moment Gender -affirming hormones,
01:08:13: I I've got admit with the
01:08:19: With the midterms coming up in less than a week
01:08:25: I Am so deeply Troubled by listening to Americans speak and Recognizing the fact that a
01:08:42: Large portion of our society a very very large portion of our society Has absolutely no concern about using language in a meaningful fashion and Being able to recognize when language is being abused
01:09:01: Gender -affirming hormones Those just simply are the male and female hormones
01:09:10: They're not affirming something the a
01:09:18: Weak -minded people are easily controlled by someone who can use the language deceptively
01:09:27: Reproductive Therapy reproductive rights Reproductive health care.
01:09:35: No, it's a murder of unborn children, but we're gonna call it reproductive health care Any God has given us the ability to see through these things.
01:09:47: You have to numb that ability through years of public education
01:09:55: Television films media To destroy
01:10:01: The natural ability we have to be able to see these things and to recognize these things. I was watching
01:10:08: I Was watching some political ads How can you not
01:10:14: I? mean right now everything on any of the stations
01:10:21: Any of the channels you'd be watching it's just political ad after political ad and The attack ads
01:10:30: From both sides, but especially the left. This is this is the essence of leftism. It has been since the
01:10:37: Bolshevik Revolution You might even go back to the French Revolution once you had some form of secularism
01:10:46: Where there's just no concern for truth and a willingness to abuse language but I'm watching these attack ads and they
01:10:55: They are Absolutely not intended for a thinking human being they are intended for emotional beings
01:11:04: Who can only emote they can't think they can't analyze sentence structure argument but They're dumb enough
01:11:13: To be moved by pure emotion That's that's that's what it's all about That is a sign that we are a long ways from health in our society when when the
01:11:30: General attack as today would have been laughed off the air in the 1980s
01:11:35: For their utter lack of meaningful content. That's That's yeah, and just listen to the language of this woman it is astonishing
01:11:54: Assisted reproductive technology in other words We'll rip the ovaries out of the woman and cut off her breasts
01:12:02: We will castrate the boy, but hey 20 years from now. We might have a way of Using a
01:12:12: Petri dish to give you a kid That that's that's the evil this is this is not stupidity this is not idiocy it's evil
01:12:25: I'm watching right now my daughter Clearly having an absolute blast
01:12:35: Raising her firstborn Male son, okay, so she she has a son with her husband from Previous situation, but this is the first baby boy.
01:12:50: She has given birth to and She's obviously having a blast for a couple of reasons
01:12:58: One of the reasons is all the rest of the kids just love him and are so helpful with them and Seeing them bonding and seeing him starting to giggle and laugh at them and stuff like that.
01:13:09: It's just that's the joy of Parenthood and and family and she's nursing this child and Some of those beautiful special things.
01:13:21: I remember when our kids were born was when my wife is nursing that child and You know, there's that bond that exists between mother and child
01:13:34: And I think about 14 year old girls who because of tik -tok videos are having their breasts cut off and Then you hear them as 18 year olds and 20 year olds going.
01:13:47: Why did anyone let me do something? So stupid as that and you go because they wanted to destroy you
01:13:59: They wanted to make it so you could never have these experiences. That was their purpose. That's their intention
01:14:04: That's what this woman is all about Though she probably has kids herself. The hypocrisy of it is astonishing
01:14:14: But There is you know, that's why I will not Look at these men wearing wigs and Shooting up with estrogen.
01:14:26: I will not call them women. They're not women That is an insult to my wife to my daughter
01:14:34: It's an insult to all of them to take that honorable title of mother wife woman and Apply it to a pretender.
01:14:49: That is none of those things. I Won't do it anyway language language represents what we
01:15:00: How we see the world you change language and you change the world You're also evolving
01:15:10: You know, I also want to take a step back for a second to say that You know transgender youth in their families just like everyone else may
01:15:21: You know are aware of the fact that there are other ways to build families beyond catch that There are other ways to build family you see they
01:15:33: The the focus has been to destroy The entire concept of family and who defined that family for us
01:15:43: Jesus did in Matthew 19 a Man shall leave his father and mother cling to his wife to become one flesh.
01:15:50: That's what God blesses Because that's what God created and we know from Scripture.
01:15:55: It was Jesus that ordained those things, right? And So if you hate
01:16:01: God and hate God's ways and hate God's law These people are so committed to their rebellion and hatred
01:16:12: That they have spent decades Decades preparing the way
01:16:22: Laying the foundation you can't get this level of evil and insanity just overnight you had to start the corruption of the universities and the educational system a
01:16:39: Long time ago to get someone to sit in front of a camera and Twist and destroy the language
01:16:49: The way we have today Who was the ditzy Starlet she's been in a lot of movies and Hathaway What was she on the view or something?
01:17:03: again where she said abortion is Another word for mercy if you didn't see the little
01:17:19: Filmette from lure called the procedure. Did you see that? Oh It's very it's only four minutes
01:17:27: See the the brilliance of that featurette and I retweeted it and said we need to take this viral
01:17:35: The brilliance is it works really well and You might say it's it's all emotional it's based upon facts.
01:17:42: It's a it's a testimony of a Ultrasound technician who watched the second trimester
01:17:53: Destruction of a baby girl and Watch the baby as its arms and legs are torn off pulling into a trying to get away and pulling into a ball and it's just It'll make you lose your lunch and make you cry
01:18:07: But it's super effective because it's it's done really well, and it's it's short enough to keep people's attention
01:18:13: Remember, this is this is the same world where when I went on the CNN. Dr.
01:18:19: Drew show years ago The producer told us in the green room If one person talks for more than 15 seconds the audience tunes out
01:18:29: Okay, so you got to do things quick It Illustrates the depth of the evil and that you can have starlets
01:18:45: Sitting there calling that mercy That is a twistedness that is very very difficult to even begin to imagine and if that doesn't show the absolute withdrawal of the hand of restraint,
01:19:00: I Don't know what does there's judgment on a level that's truly amazing truly amazing.
01:19:10: Well, anyway, there you go. I Wanted to touch on that and Go from there
01:19:20: We will I assume Probably have to do two early programs next week
01:19:31: Probably I'm not sure what your schedule is like Monday Wednesday because we have a church function
01:19:38: Thursday Friday Saturday Kelly and I are gonna take Two of our grandkids up with us to the
01:19:49: To the leadership get -together retreat type thing wherever it is That'll that should be a lot of fun it's fun when your grandkids start getting old enough that you can do stuff like that with them and have fun with them and and Things like that.
01:20:04: So we'll have to go fairly early Which means a bunch of nasty stuff will get dropped on Thursday of next week
01:20:13: If we have the internet I could always do something from up there we'll see but We will press on from there.
01:20:21: Thanks for listening the program today. Hopefully it was challenging Edifying something along those lines.