Jihadi Attack in London

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James White director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 973 4602 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 -877 -753 -3341. And now with today's topic here is James White.

And good afternoon. Welcome to the dividing line a jumbo edition today. Mainly so that we can have sufficient time to cover the topics appropriately without having to rush and maybe Even open the phone lines toward the end of the program.

If we have time to do so and if you would like to Become involved so much has happened since Tuesday. It's amazing how much has gone on the past two days that would require our taking some time to consider these things from a biblical and Christian worldviews specifically we have the Amazing events in London.

We had the same day the homily by the Pope on the subject of atheists and everyone is redeemed. And we likewise have the issue of tornado and God's sovereignty and sin and Young women who should not be pretending to be theologians pretending to be theologians such as Rachel held Evans.

All at the same time and then we add to that the re-raising of an issue from last July in regards to Tyler McNabb and His swimming the Tiber River. So lots of things to talk about on the program today.

Hopefully be able to do so in a meaningful fashion. That will be of assistance to you in our Listening audience. I have a I hope this plays because sometimes it gets the replay thing. It doesn't want to replay it again.

I Want you to listen? To this gentleman. He is Michael. Word that where'd it go? I have far too many Too many. There he is it's too many too many browser windows up. Yeah, let's see. Where is the name here Michael?

Adebolajo Adebolajo. Michael Adebolajo is the man who? Was seen yesterday in video from London with his arms covered in blood holding a meat cleaver and a knife. Having just dismembered a British soldier decapitated a British soldier after running into him with a car that obviously probably took him out and then they did their deed right there on the sidewalk on the street actually in London and I want you to listen to what this British-born citizen Of Nigerian descent who was born as a Christian well.

Quote unquote whatever that's supposed to mean you don't get born as a Christian, but that's what the that's what the Media is saying. Listen to what he says because I did not hear the media Play what he actually said.

They could have it's not that long. It wasn't a matter of time. It was a matter of editing and they didn't want you to hear everything that he had to say and Here's here's what he actually said hopefully.

We must fight them as they fight us. I Apologize that women have to witness this today, but in our lands our women have to see the same.

So there he was and what most people just didn't understand at the beginning. Was the recording starts when he's saying surat Ataba? Surat Ataba, what's that? That's surah 9. Surah 9 of the Quran. It's the last of the surahs in Most traditional lists to be revealed and it's the one that radicals love the most.

Because it talks about jihad and it talks about fighting the infidels wherever they are and I'll go just to post it in channel a little while ago a article showing a picture of Anjum Chowdhury from 2007.

He's using a Bullhorn at some protest outside of a police station and who's standing directly behind him looking very unhappy but Michael Adebolohu. He had become involved with the Anjum Chowdhury radical Islamic movement.

I can guarantee you that he heard all about surah 9 and I'm sure he probably heard surah 8 ayah number 12 as well. Remember when your Lord inspired to the angels. I am with you so strengthen those who have believed.

I will cast terror into the hearts. Of those who disbelieved so strike them upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip. So there you have surah 8 ayah 12 and I'm sure he heard Anjum Chowdhury talking about those things and the people in those particular groups and movements.

Talking about those things and so he and another Took it into their own hands to act these things out yesterday on a street in London now. How are we supposed to think about this? It's shocking to see a man staying there with hands covered in blood we we don't see that very often especially when you realize it's the blood of a human being and They just knelt over that body and was were dismembering it.

Sawing the head off in public. Now the amazing thing to me is people were watching. One I think 48 year old woman did try to help it. She was a little bit late obviously. But they're even police there the police wouldn't approach them because they were not armed.

I'm not gonna get into that but oh my goodness. Thank you leftists for making us a Victim culture, but anyway When you see that man when you see Michael standing there my gut feeling is given how Few sound Christians there are in the UK.

There are some great Christians there, but let's face it. The real Christian Church is a very very very small minority in the United Kingdom. The vast majority of the Church of England and things like that is dead in the doornail and has been for a long long time.

Okay long long time. I don't have any reason to believe this man has ever really known the gospel if he did So is only in a cultural fashion not with real knowledge of what the gospel is and There he stands.

He has been given a false religious system. It's a religious system with the Holy God a law and hellfire, but no mediator and there he stands. And I just want to ask each one of you in the audience What do you feel when you see him standing there?

I'll be honest with you The first thought across my mind is anger. The first thought across my mind is He needs to be punished. The first thought across my mind is why was no one able to help? That victim before these people so savagely ended his life.

But I had to catch myself out as I thought about this yesterday because what we should see when we see that man. What we should think about when we see Michael Adebolajo standing there is. We should see the Apostle Paul Standing with garments on his hands garments, he was holding for his fellow religionists who out of tradition and blind ignorance Had just brutally murdered a Christian man named Stephen stoning is a Stoning is about as bad.

It it it it's more of a community method of execution. Because no one can necessarily say who threw the exact stone that caused death. That's why the community does stoning, but It's bloody. I don't know if you've ever seen it.

It's it's done really horridly in Islamic lands, they actually dig a pit and put you in it up to your waist and and that way you can't really move and and they do it that way and it's just it's it's bloody and it's horrible and Paul had just witnessed that.

Paul had just witnessed that. And I would imagine he There probably wasn't a day that went by in the rest of his life. He did not think about that. He certainly spoke about it in his epistles he talked about being a persecutor of the church and the least in the kingdom of God and all these things because he probably thought about I thought about someday he was going to meet Stephen and What was that encounter going to be like?

Well, of course in a glorified state it'll be one of perfect unity and love but When you when you look at that man as Christians we do not have the luxury. We do not have the luxury to hate. We must think about what his situation is and realize that every single one of us.

You know that song. There's there's one line in it that I don't like it's theologically but it's a beautiful song and At one point it talks about it's talking about the cross and it talks about. I hear my own voice crying out amongst the mockers.

I Would have been one of those Standing there. I would have been one of those holding the garments or maybe throwing the stones. The reality is that We prove ourselves to be Very self-righteous and to not really understand the extent of The grace that had to be extended to us to save us.

We look at him and go. Oh, it's just us. If it were not for the grace of God you likewise would be capable of Such barbarism. No, I never could know you and you don't know your own heart. You don't know your own heart.

Yes, you you could have and that's the first thing to think about. Yes. There needs to be law there needs to be order. What he did was horrific but as a Christian Your first thought cannot be for retribution.

I would suggest that we must Pray for this man and pray that God will deliver him from the deception of the false religion to which he is committed now. I started thinking. And we got a lot of people very angry by doing this but I really think this is absolutely necessary incidents like this are then taken by other evil men as a License to commit more evil.

That's the nature of human evil and I have seen pictures online of Young British thugs wearing ski masks. Getting ready to go mess up some Muslims as if somehow they have the righteous duty and Right to commit another wrong.

To make right a further wrong a first wrong. You know what? I mean, and that disgusts me as well and I started asking. I I wonder What the Muslims have been saying about this as I got up this morning.

I mean we're far enough behind England that we sort of catch up on the end of their day as we get ours started and So I popped over to the Muslim debate initiative and Discovered that era. Had posted a video and I'm going to play their video and interact with it a little bit here at the beginning is Homs it sorts ease and then Adnan Rashid and Adnan got a haircut.

I noticed since our debate He was looking he was he had a lot of hair going there for a while. But all of a sudden maybe it's getting warm or something. I don't know but He's got himself a haircut going here.

But Here is a brief Muslim response to what happened There in London.

To proceed Allah I want to comment on what happened today in London in Woolwich where two men Killed a man with machetes. I want to condemn this act. It's an act of criminality. I also want everybody to know very clearly and Indecisively that these men do not represent any community or any religion.

This is a statement regarding the acts of criminality which took place today in Woolwich. Two men who Conducted these acts of criminality are not for our community. They do not represent us in any shape or form and I want to highlight That the far right is going to take full advantage of this situation and they're going to spread a lot of hatred about Islam and Muslims.

This is something we have to be careful about. We condemn all acts of criminality whether they take place in this country or in Syria or in Japan. So we have to be clear on this that these two men do not represent us in any shape or form.

Thank you very much. Okay.

Now I have been trying and I Guess this is the best time I Guess in a situation like this would at least help us to force force ourselves. Think through this. I have been trying To get the two sides Christians and Muslims talking in the most meaningful fashion possible.

It's one of the reasons that should be Raleigh and I are writing the book that we are we're focusing upon what really matters. But the reality is we have people on both of our sides who just don't really want to get with the program.

Let me start off addressing. Let me just address Adnan. I don't know Hamza Hamza was gonna be on unbelievable with us a few when I was over the last time and he didn't make it maybe next time. He'll be able to and we'll be able to meet but seems like an interesting fellow.

He was the one that was I responded to last week the brief comment. He made about The Quran is self-interpreting and and process becoming Roman Catholic because of that which will be addressing more of it later on.

Let me let me just address Adnan's the note Adnan. Here's what we need from you. I I hear what you're saying and It does concern me that there are people who will take this kind of incident as a Signal to engage in violence against the Muslim community against people who would never do What Michael Adel Belaho did?

I fully understand why your community is concerned about this and should be I I get that that's two wrongs do not make a right and I hear you. I hear you. You need to hear What we need to hear from you, Adnan.

First of all When you mentioned Japan or Syria, we're not sure what you're referring to because what we are hearing is that in Syria The Primarily Muslim opposition to Assad is murdering Christians right and left.

Why. Why is that why why is the Middle East becoming the most unfriendly place in a planet to Christians? I mean Christians are fleeing lands that they've lived in for millennia, and it's 99 due to Muslim Oppression and my concern Adnan is and I've expressed this to you, you know this.

How do we know who a Muslim is? Now, by the way, let me just I forgot to mention this. I mentioned it briefly, but let me throw it in here. Think about this Adnan all the media are suppressing. Well, okay the vast majority of the media every clip that I've heard if I hadn't gone looking for it.

But the vast majority is suppressing the reality that that man stood there talking about in Arabic Specific citations from the Quran with blood on his hands. Now, why are they doing that? You might say well They're doing that so that they don't start a race war or something.

I don't know. Okay, I'm not really not sure. That's why they're doing it because I can guarantee you one thing if that was a non-muslim standing there Quoting Bible verses having just killed somebody they'd play him quoting the Bible verses.

I assure you I Assure you they were the double standard there is amazing. But what we need to hear Adnan and I've expressed this to you is. You said those men are not a part of our community. We need better information as to how you're defining that.

We need to know that you all are getting rid of these folks that you're marking these folks out. That you are giving we need you to explain to us the theological basis upon which you can say that that person who has said La ilaha illallah.

Well, Muhammad and Rasul Allah is not a Muslim. We need to hear that when when people on our side do things like this. We're very clear in explaining why that is not a Christian Activity that person isn't a believer.

Can your mosques? Engage in ecclesiastical Excommunication if not, why not and if you are we need to hear it more clearly because we're not hearing it from our side. It just we don't see the distinctions that we need to see at least those of us who actually want to see them and understand them.

I Recognize there's a bunch of people all over the place that don't care. They don't care at all, I know I'm not one of them I'm talking to as a person who does care. I want to make the proper distinctions.

How can we do so? How can we do so talk to us about? Well, I'll give you an example and I've used this example. I'm trying to be fair. I am trying to bend over backwards to be Not objective because I'm not objective.

I'm a Christian apologist. Okay. But as a Christian apologist, I must be truthful and I found it fascinating and troubling That a few weeks ago after the bombings at the Boston Marathon word came out Concerning Fais Muhammad down in Sydney and so I contacted a Muslim friend of mine in Sydney and you all know who that was.

Anyways, I said, hey, who is this guy and Has your community said anything about him? And very quickly I got an email back. Yeah, we sure have. We sure have here's a link to You know one of our leaders Talking about this man, and it didn't take me very long to find A section where Fais Muhammad was actually preaching that Islam was not being preached in any of the mosques in Sydney.

Now how many of you I'm talking to you Christians now. How many of you Christians heard that how many of you heard anything in the mainstream media about the fact that this guy Was running around saying that Islam is not being preached in any of the mosques in Sydney and that the mosques in Sydney themselves Had precluded him from preaching within them.

I hadn't heard it. I had to go looking to the Muslim community To find that information now put yourself in The Muslims shoes right now. Do it. I'm telling you you got We are Christians. We have to be truthful.

We have to be consistent put yourself in their shoes some nutcase From a Baptist Church and believe me. I've met a lot of nutcases in Baptist churches. Some nutcase who has some Past connection to a big Baptist Church in Texas.

Okay. I'm just making this up on I'm not referring to anybody specifically some nutcase Goes out and does some horrific thing. Kills an abortion doctor. I don't know. I don't know what the parallel would be there really isn't a parallel because one of the problems here is the Intimate necessary connection of politics and religion within Sharia within Islam.

That's one of the real problems and we don't have that outside of some odd forms of theonomy Within within the fabric of of Christianity, so it's really hard to make a direct parallel but somebody comes that goes out does something horrific and all of a sudden You because you happen to be a member of a Baptist Church in Texas are now painted with the same broad brush as this individual even though The reality is the guy had been kicked out of the church Excommunicated you can find videos online of him saying the Gospels not being preached in any Baptist Church in Texas.

But you're still being held accountable for what that guy did. Would you be frustrated? Would you think it's just grossly unfair? Yeah, you would. You would I? Sure would so. None of that offers a Solution to the situation and I'm saying to Adnan.

I'm saying to Hamza. I'm saying to Abdullah. I'm saying to Abdullah Al-Andalusi. I'm to Lakonda all of the men that I know in the Islamic community and have had debates with you guys need to give us and I know you said oh, it's we do it all the time.

It's a yeah, but we don't hear. We don't hear clearly The Distinctions that you are making we need to hear it more clearly. The world needs to hear it more clearly and I hope and pray That none of you Will be the victims of violence because of what this man has done.

You know that my prayer for all of you is that you would come to know the Lord Jesus Christ. That he would be gracious to you. You know, that's my prayer. I'm always honest about that and So I do not want to see you come to harm in any way shape or form and I fully understand your concern for your community that that's what could happen because of what this man has done, but you see I've said this over and over again.

I'm gonna say it again my deepest concern is That the differences between you folks The dividing lines between the Anjum chowder ease and those who eschew this kind of violence. Those dividing lines from my perspective seem really thin in this sense and that is the sources from which you must draw to make your case against their Interpretation of surah 8 12 and surah 9 29 and 9 5 and all the all the other References that that Anjum chowdering his followers can quote with blood on their hands.

The sources from which you must draw to provide the exegetical context to not interpret those texts the way they do comes from a mass of documents and oral traditions that I just don't think are consistent enough to actually answer the question and That to me is the great issue in Islam.

How are You going to stop these people who believe that violence rather than the changing of the heart is the means for the promotion of Islam given That they can quote Hadith Just like you can and I know they can't.

I know they can't what is it within Islam that allows you to be victorious in This internal strife. I know you want to be I Appreciate the fact that you want to be but looking at the sources themselves.

Can you be that's the question. That's the question. Wow start off heavy. Start off heavy. Sorry. Had to be done as soon as I saw him standing there and I had to search my own heart there's a there's a natural just.

How could anyone and I don't want to be trite in any way shape or form? I really don't but there is a reason why I say theology matters and As you see that man standing there calmly Rationally. Not even threatening the person with the camera.

But with blood all over his hands. He honestly believed he had just done God's duty. He honestly believed he had just done something God wanted him to do. It also happened to be a political statement.

That's what happens when you combine the two together and if that doesn't tell you about Part of the Tragedy of the collapse of the gospel in the United Kingdom. Well, it should. It should. Says he was 15 or 16 when he got into studying Islam and became a Muslim.

What was he hearing? What was he taught before that? Don't know. But it certainly wasn't enough to keep him from becoming what he became and what a tragedy that is. So Adnan Abdullah Sammy all you guys.

I wish you well, I hope you do not encounter any violence as a result of all this. But help us out put up some videos. Not just condemning but explaining why giving the arguments we'd like to hear them.

You say oh, we've got all that internally. Yeah, well may I suggest you're not doing a really really good job explaining to the rest of us Why that is we need it. We need to hear it. We need to see it.

So I Hope you'll do that and I hope that you hear me when I say that my prayer is for your safety and for You to understand that no true Christian is going to wish upon you harm. But any true Christian will pray that you will come to know the true and living Jesus Christ.

That's why I debate. That's why I've debated each one of you and will continue to do so Lord giving strength in The future that's our way of saying inshallah. Now shifting gears. This is this is a big gear shift.

Almost feel like we should do a break there or something, but I'll skip it and just pretend that This we had a break. Welcome back to the vying line. How's that? It didn't really work. Well Sort of makes you feel a little better but Big news of yesterday very big news.

We I Could tell early on that this Next pontificate is going to be really interesting. Really really interesting. This is not Cardinal Ratzinger at the helm in Rome any longer. No. It isn't I Do not think That Cardinal Ratzinger would have spoken the way that Francis the first did he just likes to go.

He just doesn't like to follow the teleprompter. Shall we say if you know what I mean? He's his own guy lives in his own place. You got it. You got to give him credit for all that stuff. But the reality is There's good evidence.

This guy is not nearly as conservative not nearly as historical in his view of things and I think the world's gonna see once again that what we've been saying all along is true and that is that Rome may say oh we are the Church of 2 ,000 years, but the reality is the only way to accept that the only way to believe that is to buy into the idea Is to buy into the idea that whatever this guy says Goes and if the he croaks and the next guy comes along or retires, I guess now is another possibility.

And the other guy says something different. Well now that's it and you just just go with the flow. Don't worry about this this objective truth thing this thing this you know, it's the same truth for generation generation thing.

It's just a personality cult now and you follow this guy and whatever he says goes. Now I had said during John Paul II's reign That it seemed like once each year. He'd throw out a bone to the liberals say something sort of off the wall on the left and then The next year he'd throw a bone to the conservatives now.

I gotta admit it would be really hard to keep something as diverse as The Roman Catholic Church going to go in one direction. It's because despite they're wanting to think of it as one big old ship. It's actually like a flotilla.

Okay, and and he's running around trying to keep this flotilla going the same direction and ain't easy to do. It isn't easy. I understand as soon as I started hearing this guy talking and I started seeing some Some references to some of the people he was close to down there in South America and all and I'm like, hmm.

This could be interesting. Well, yeah, I got interesting got interesting yesterday. Now I really wish this would format correctly. I hate these websites. This is the Vatican website radio vaticana .va and For some Crazy reason I'm gonna see if I can drag it.

Oh good and drag it onto another screen. It's wider. And I can now read the whole thing good. I Technologically advanced so he starts talking about atheists yesterday and Let me just quote a few of the things he said the Lord Christ Created us in his image and likeness and we are the image of the Lord and he does good and all of us have this Commandment at heart do good and do not do evil all of us.

But father, this is not Catholic. He cannot do good. Yes, he can he must not can must. Because he has this commandment within him instead this closing off that imagines that those outside everyone cannot do good is a wall that leads to war and also to what some people Throughout history have conceived of killing in the name of God.

That we can kill the name of God and that simply is blasphemy to say that you can kill any of God is blasphemy now, okay, I Don't know that he's I'm not sure what that means. He Understands was taking place in the history of Israel and the conquering of promised land and stuff.

But that's not really what he was addressing. I will I will agree that The command of God we're all create an image of God and Therefore if we are in his image we are to do good. We can't do it. But that's because of our fallen nature.

It sounds like he's saying that we can in some way. Now, I don't know if he in the back of his mind has some kind of prevenient grace concept going on I don't know. He didn't say. Maybe he'll write a book on it.

Maybe he won't. I don't know this is one of the problems and having an allegedly infallible leader is that you have to interpret the allegedly infallible leaders infallible teachings and You must do so infallibly, but that would make you infallible and since you're not infallible.

You can't do that well, you get the point but Yes, I would I would agree that man has the commandment within him to Honor God give him. Thanks, but according to Romans chapter 1 that's the very thing that man refuses to do but he goes on The Lord has redeemed all of us all of us repeated twice With the blood of Christ all of us not just Catholics everyone father the atheists even the atheists everyone and This blood makes us children of God of the first class.

Now, let me stop just there for a moment. But no, no, no, let me finish reading it. Then we'll take it apart. I'm sorry. I apologize. I'll probably forget what I was gonna say, but that's okay. We are created children in the likeness of God and the blood of Christ has redeemed us all and we all have a duty to Do good and this commandment for everyone to do good I think is a beautiful path towards peace if We each doing our own part if we do good to others if we meet they're doing good and we go slowly gently little by Little we will make that culture of encounter.

We need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. But I don't believe father. I am an atheist but do good. We will meet one another there now. Let me say there really is not anything overly shocking about this.

As far as Roman Catholicism is concerned what I mean by that is I've said many many times before and I'm not the only one that said it. I'll bet you Bob's in Genesis said this that the vast majority of Roman Catholic prelates leaders The the priesthood etc, etc Are either Universalist or minimally inclusivist if you don't know what inclusivist is universalist course person, please everyone's gonna be saved inclusivist that basically believe that any religious expression will ultimately find its object in God and therefore Believing in Buddha can also be considered by God believing Jesus same same thing as the same object.

So I'm You you hear this from priests all the time. But you didn't hear from John Paul the second you didn't hear from from Benedict you didn't hear it from Ratzinger now obviously for many Roman Catholics, they're going hey, I Thought that I received the body and blood of Jesus in the Eucharist and if you're an atheist and you don't take the Eucharist then how can you be redeemed because.

And I understand your struggle. I feel for you it's about time you stop talking about this 2 ,000 year old church thing and realize that It don't work that way. It never did. It's it's been a myth all along all this unity infallible leadership blah blah stuff.

Just just historically it's naive and and I'm sorry for you to have to discover it this way. But that is the reality I can guarantee you innocent The third or all the Popes at the time the Reformation.

I Would I would the Pope that came up with the papal syllabus of errors. I can guarantee you they did not talk this way. They did not talk this way. They did not talk about how even atheists Have been redeemed by the blood of Christ and that they are children of God of the first class.

They didn't talk like that and for good reason. You know the Pope had defined the fact many many many years ago in unum sanctum that well It's absolutely necessary for the salvation of Human beings they be subject to the Roman pontiff and there have been all sorts of wild and crazy Interpretations placed upon that over the years since then especially in the modern era.

But if you're honest, you know what he meant by that at the time he spoke it now I realized that being concerned about what words meant in their original context is a little bit naive today is not very not very popular not very common.

I Get that but I still happen to think that it's extremely relevant especially as as an author myself I'm pretty well convinced that I am the final infallible interpreter of my own works. I just think that's sort of how it works.

And we pretty much know what the Pope meant by that back then and if you want to play around play games and say he Meant something else. Well, you can you can come up with that theology matters again folks I have been one of Many people but we are in the small minority.

We don't have the biggest voices. We don't have the biggest ministries, but you can go back to the first book. I wrote Called the fatal flaw wrote it in 1989 some of you listening right now. Like Milwaukee truth, I don't think you were around in 1989.

Maybe you were. I don't know. I Think he might have been in diapers in or something like that. I know he's Listening because he just tweeted that he's listening. Some of you may not have been around back then but in 1989 I wrote a book called the fatal flaw and I Started writing it came out in 90 and in that book I made the argument that The sacrifice of the mass cannot be a representation of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Because it does not accomplish That which the Bible says the sacrifice of Christ accomplishes and I very honestly admitted That this is an argument that cannot be made by non-reformed Protestants if you believe in a universal atonement That does not actually save anyone but makes men savable.

You are not on the same page with me in my response to Roman Catholicism. You're left with other forms of argumentation that I believe are inherently self-contradictory and in essence You end up with synergists arguing with synergists you're all on the same page.

Anyways, you may not like that, but that's the fact that's the fact and Rome has for a long time in many of her statements many of her statements spoken in this type of language spoken about the idea that God has a Universal salvific will in the sense that he really really really there's there's no No, no divine decree.

He's just doing his best save everybody and That the death of Christ is intended to actually accomplish that but it doesn't it fails. But it's intended for that. Intended so. This is nothing new but The past Popes have been significantly more Nuanced and careful.

I don't think Francis first cares about careful. I don't think he cares about careful. I think right now he is Absolutely frightening. The old-line leadership in the Vatican to death. Just like he doesn't like to go out with his security and he doesn't like to stay in the papal Where the Pope's supposed to be and all the rest that kind of stuff.

Yeah, the Popemobile and all that stuff. I By what he might say next. Because he just seems to sort of go with the flow and when you're infallible. Going with the flow is scary. Especially when you end up contradicting the last infallible guy who happens to still be alive.

It's sort of tens. You know. To give the lie to this this infallibility stuff in toto.

So what do you think Benedict said when he heard?

What it what Francis said. That's really easy. Remember what what do you say. Where's Benedict from. He's he's he's German. He said octa leave. It's exactly what it's. I can guarantee you that he did.

He slapped his forehead and said ah. He couldn't believe it. That's what he did and We've been pointing out these problems for a long time. But you know most of most of my first Work in Roman Catholicism was during the years of John Paul II so you had you had the consistency of leadership at the top there.

Now that you start, you know Having multiple popes rolling through now, we're starting to go. Well, he used to say that and now he's saying this and now he's saying that and I think this guy is going to be a treasure trove of Really interesting statements that it was going to be keeping the the boys over at Catholic answers up late at night.

I I think that the the absolutely best Efforts that they can put out are going to be have to be expended in explaining. Well, I know we used to say this and the Pope just said this and it's I Think you know we ought to do.

We ought to take up a collection and send a case of Advil over to Catholic.

Answers. My question for them is so so so who's back? Do you have today? Right? Yeah, who's back?