January 18, 2021 Show with Dr. Latayne C. Scott on “Crisis: Crucible of Praise–Finding Grace in the Midst of Adversity”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com. This is

Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 18th day of January 2021.

I'm always thrilled to have back as a returning guest someone I have known going all the way back to the 1990s before I even had my own radio program while working as an account executive for WMCA 570

AM, and at that time they reopened in Rutherford, New Jersey, and they also moved later to Hasbrook Heights, New Jersey, where I was an employee there for 15 years, and now they are located in New York City, which is where they originally started in the early 1900s, but while working as an account executive for WMCA, I had developed a very close friendship with the in -house talk show host,

Andy Anderson, host of Talk New York, which was later renamed Andy Anderson Live, and I urged

Andy, after discovering Dr. Latane C. Scott's book, The Mormon Mirage, which she wrote because she is a former

Mormon who converted by the grace of God to biblical Christianity, when I urged Andy to interview her, he quickly discovered why

I urged him to interview her, because he started to truly love interviewing her as well, and then when

I got my own program, I made sure that I had invited Latane C. Scott back on the program as often as possible, and as I said, she is a

Mormon convert to biblical Christianity, and she is the author of over two dozen books, including

The Mormon Mirage, which I mentioned earlier, and the multiple award -winning

A Conspiracy of Breath, she received Pepperdine University's Distinguished Christian Service Award for her writing, and is

TSU's author -in -residence, along with Dr. Stephen Collins, founder of Trinity Southwest University, and chief archaeologist of the

Tol el -Haman, which is Sodom, archaeological excavations in Jordan, she co -wrote

Discovering the City of Sodom, and it is my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron, Sharp, and Zion Radio to discuss

Crisis, Crucible of Praise, Finding Grace in the Midst of Adversity, Dr. Latane C.

Scott. I'm delighted to be back, Chris. I'm delighted. And I want our listeners to know that if you have a question of your own for Dr.

Scott, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com,

and as always, please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, and I could obviously expect that there may be listeners who do have very personal and private questions they may wish to ask because of the nature of our discussion.

Crisis, Crucible of Praise, Finding Grace in the Midst of Adversity. Obviously, there are many circumstances in folks' lives that would be accurately defined as being a crisis or being in the midst of adversity that would compel someone to remain anonymous, so we obviously will allow you to remain anonymous if it is about such a personal and private matter.

But if it is just a general question about Latane's life, about her own crisis that led to this book, about a theological issue, et cetera, involving the subject, then please give us at least your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

First of all, Latane, I understand that this, in fact I know this is a republished work because I remember years ago back in the 90s reading

Crisis, Crucible of Praise cover to cover, and I'm almost certain we had Andy Anderson interview you on the first edition of that book, but now it has been republished by TSU Press, and I'm so thrilled that they have done this.

Tell us about the catalyst that compelled you to initially write the book to begin with.

Well, early in my writing career when my children were still small, I had written

The Mormon Courage, and Zondervan had put their money where my mouth was in publishing a book by an unknown writer, and a book which is, by the way, stayed in print for 41 years, which is one brief hiatus.

And Zondervan asked me to write some Bible studies, which I did, and then we had a circumstance in our lives, my husband and I, where our daughter, who at the time was 8 years old, we were living in Boulder, Colorado, and she developed a lump on her head that we went through the medical process of trying to figure out what it was at first.

The doctor said, well, it's just a, you know, a harmless cyst, and you need to go to a dermatologist.

We went into the dermatologist, and he said, yeah, you know, just a harmless thing, and he said, would you like for me to remove it?

And my husband and I are in the office, and we said yes, you know, because it was prominent. It was about the size of half of a golf ball on the top back of her head.

And we said yes, it's painful. She doesn't, you know, it's uncomfortable to comb her hair over it.

Yes, please do remove it. You're a dermatologist. Do that. And so he was kind of chatty, this dermatologist was, and all of a sudden, he stopped talking, and he just went completely white, and he said, there's no bone underneath this growth.

And he sent us over to a hospital where they did x -rays, and we found that she had what is called an eosinophilic granuloma, and it's a tumor that destroys bone.

And, of course, this was terrifying to have our sweet, angelic little Celeste in that predicament, and we said, what do we need to do?

And he assured us it wasn't cancer, and I said, well, I asked the neurologist, but is this cancer?

And he said no. And I said, well, good. And he says, no, but it's malignant. So malignant means something that destroys tissue and bone, and that's certainly what this was doing.

So anyway, the process we went through on that, and the way that our family faith grew, and how

I answered the questions and Dan answered the questions of our son and other people, and how we, you know, what we went through with that experience,

Bonnevin asked me to write a book about that, and what I discovered about praise and prayer during the time of crisis.

Well, I was in the middle of writing this book, and two things happened.

My mother suffered a major stroke, and just a couple of weeks later, our daughter, the same one who had had the tumor removed off the back of her skull, fell and hit the other side of her head against a brick wall, had a closed head concussion, and nearly lost her life through that.

The eosinophilic granuloma did not threaten her life, but the closed head concussion did.

And our son, who was maybe 12 at the time, he said, Mom, why do you think all these crises are happening to you right in the middle of the time you're writing a book on crisis?

And I said, Well, I don't know, but maybe God's giving us some on -the -job training. And he said,

Next time, write a book about getting rich. So anyway, what came out of that book was a really in -depth study of what you need to do, or what proved to be effective and soul -strengthening for me and my family in the midst of these horrible circumstances.

And people have come back to me and said, You know, the book's been out of print for a long time. Would you consider republishing it?

And of course, I've had another whole set of crises in our family for the last ten years.

With a very ill husband. But this book, Crisis, Crisis, Full of Praise, is where my foundation is.

It's where my foundation is. It's where I figured these things out. So the next time that a crisis happened in my life,

I knew what to do. I didn't have to go searching for how does God work in crisis? How do

I praise Him? What do I need to know about prayer and the effectiveness? I had that set. And so it's very much a foundation on which my faith has been built.

And although I acknowledge, Cris, that God gave me the gift of faith. You know,

He gives gifts, and my gift has always been faith. He's made me trust in Him from my mother's womb.

And I went through, you know, quite a trial leaving

Mormonism and finding out that the God I was worshiping didn't exist. That was horrible.

And I've had a couple of other faith crises. But in terms of overall trusting

Him and overcoming those things, that's been His gift to me. I take no credit for it. Well, tell us,

I mean, you are a recent widow. Tell us how long you were married to Dan, and perhaps give a little bit more detail on Dan's entering into glory with Christ for eternity.

We did mention in previous interviews Dan's illness.

And I may be mistaken, but is this the first time you've been on the program since Dan went home to be with the

Lord? I do believe it is, Cris. Yes. So why don't you just tell our listeners a little bit something about that, since it definitely relates to the theme.

And there may be widows and widowers listening who could benefit greatly from what you have to say.

I, myself, am a widower. And even though it has been over a decade since my own precious bride went home to be with the

Lord for eternity, I still battle very deep and serious grief and mourning and depression.

And not everybody responds the same way to death and to grief.

And, of course, not only is everybody an individual, but the people that we lose are very unique in our individuals.

So there is no cookie -cutter explanation or description of how people, how and why people go through what they do.

All that we know as Christians, for certain, is that we do not have to grieve like those who have no hope.

We have a great peace and even a joy that would buffer the deep pain that we may feel, because when we know our loved one who has departed is with Christ for eternity, that certainly helps us through the pain.

And no matter what circumstances exist, even if someone loses a loved one that they are not certain of whether or not that person knew

Christ before departing this earth, we know that the judge of all the earth will do what is right.

If you could, tell us some more details about this. Chris, I'm glad you mentioned that we're individuals and we all process things differently, because that's very, very important.

One of the ways that I've been able to minister through Dan's illness is by creating

YouTube videos over the last year or so. And, of course, I started recording them when

Dan was still alive, and he had been ill at that point for about eight and a half years.

And I want to point your listeners to a YouTube channel which is called

Skin On, Skin In. And the idea is that I'm somebody who has skin on, you know,

I'm a real person who has been through multiple sustained trials and kept my faith in the

Lord, or I should say the Lord has maintained faith in me. And I have skin in the game because these things are vitally important.

And so I want to direct people to some of the videos that they want a little bit more detail than I'll be able to give here.

But essentially, Dan had, from the time actually before I met him in 1973, he had different health issues that would crop up, and often life -threatening health issues.

But then they would go away and he was like the Energizer Bunny, and he would just keep going. And about 20 years ago, he had a condition called

Guillain -Barré Syndrome. And if you have ever had a flu shot, if you read the fine print, it says you understand you can get

Guillain -Barré Syndrome. Could you spell that just so our listeners hear clearly what that is?

Sure. G -U -I -L -L -A -I -N, and then the second word is

Barré, B -A -R -R -E, also called, you know, GPS for short.

Its long name is Acute Ascending Polyneuropathy.

And he had this, when he had it 20 years ago, he was partially paralyzed in the hospital for several weeks, but he overcame that with very few after effects.

Then in 2011, he had a different variant of it. In fact, at our local hospital, they call him the

Guillain -Barré Rockstar because he's the only person they've ever known that's had three variants of this horrible disease.

This one, he went from walking into a doctor's office, going out in a wheelchair, and being completely paralyzed, intubated, and unconscious for months within 24 hours.

And this was a dreadful experience for him, of course, and a big challenge for all of that, but I always had the sense, based on how, what

I had learned about praise, which is knowing who God is, what he's done in the past, and being able to assume what he's going to do in the present and the future.

Because I had that foundation from this crisis book, I was filled, and this is going to sound kind of funny, with an anticipation of what

God was going to do. And no matter how bad it got, no matter how many times doctors told me, as when he got pneumonia while he was on the ventilator, the doctor said, you understand your husband cannot survive this.

And I said, you know, I have faith. And the doctor said, you need to get realistic. And I said, no, we'll see.

And so, he had so many different additional conditions happen, pneumonia, heart surgeries, infections, others, kidney surgeries, all these things happened during that nine years that he was suffering from Guillain -Barre.

And actually, Guillain -Barre was not the cause of his death. He had heart failure, which actually caused his death.

But through all those things, our family would start saying, when a doctor would say, he can't survive, we'd say, we'll see.

Because we had a sense, through all that, that God was doing something powerful. And to his credit, to his great credit,

Dan never lost his faith. He didn't understand why those things had happened to him. It was, I tell you, this was just a horrible thing, you know, to be in a motorized wheelchair for years, to lose his ability to live at home, because I could no longer care for him.

To go through this, the last part of his life, before I brought him home, to go through it in a nursing home with this

COVID crisis going on. I mean, it literally did, in terms of physical circumstances, get worse and worse.

Until, Chris, he died in my arms, me assuring him that his reward in heaven was waiting for him.

The Lord who held the keys of death and Hades was right there reaching out for him.

And he turned and looked at me at the last moments of his life. And I knew he knew what I was saying.

And he passed to my great joy, into the arms of the Savior, who could take much better care of him than I could.

Amen. Yeah, I had the privilege of having my own mom enter into eternal rest with Christ while she was in my arms as well.

And she was 70. And this was six weeks after being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer.

We were told she had six months and the Lord took her in six weeks. And I can still remember very clearly, the morning that my dad called me up and said, your mom wants her children, her children by her side.

She knows that she's going to heaven. So please get over here as soon as you can. And thankfully,

I got there before she departed this earth. Sadly, I was the only sibling that got there before she passed away.

But I had the privilege of singing Amazing Grace to her, which had become her favorite song that she played on a little portable tape recorder every day, multiple times a day.

And I told her that the day that she had longed for, because while she was dying of pancreatic cancer, and I thank

God for this in ways I can't even describe, but she was not saying, I want to live, I want to live.

She was saying to me every time I visited her, do you think Jesus will take me home today? I sure hope so.

That helped me enormously. And so I told her, you can let go mom,

Jesus is waiting for you. I know that, that he is waiting for you and you're going to Jesus.

And she kissed me on the cheek. And not long after that she died, just minutes later.

But I thank God that he blessed me with that incredible, precious memory and that I did not get there too late as my siblings did.

But we're here to talk about your story, not mine. Well, okay, we build each other up, you know, iron sharpens iron.

Amen. Now, you may have said this, I'm sorry, but how long ago did Dan enter glory?

It'll be six months on the 28th of this month. Wow, time really flies by fast.

Yeah. And you were married, how long, was it 40 years? 46 years.

Wow. Well, praise God for that as well. I'm going to repeat our email address, it's chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. And only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

We have a first -time questioner named Amy from, and I don't know if I'm pronouncing this correctly,

Trezevant, Tennessee, or Trezevant? Trezevant.

Trezevant. Well, I really butchered it. I live downtown. Oh, really?

Yep. Well, Amy says, how many times did you need to stop typing, wipe your tears away, ask

God to give you the strength without tears to finish the book? This may surprise people, but there's something about multiple and sustained crises that carries you above individual events, and I don't know how to explain this other than the more

I wrote about the Lord and what I learned about praise, about how to ascertain what's true about Him, He's the point of praise, how to investigate what

He's done in the past in a reliable way, which is, of course, the Bible, and how to assume from those things what

I could expect Him to do in my particular circumstance, that I was filled with increasing joy as I wrote it.

I go back and look at these things that I've written, Chris, and I have to be honest, and Amy, I'm sure you can identify with this.

Once I look back at everything we went through, I think, how in the world did any young family survive what happened in Chris' physical frame?

And I even look back at some of my journals writing from a year ago, when

Dan was so ill, so, so ill, and it was right before the

COVID thing had started, and he was entering into dementia, and just the difficulties of the physical conditions he had, one after another, and just piling on top of each other.

And I look back at things like that, and I think, how in the world did I survive that? But I know it's because the

Lord gave me, like, a gyroscope inside me, and it's the Holy Spirit, and it kept me from wobbling, you know?

That doesn't mean I didn't break down and cry and get frustrated. It doesn't mean that at one point, I remember this very distinctly, telling the

Lord, I don't think I can do this anymore. I've been doing this now for eight years. I don't think I can do this long -term.

And, of course, I'd already done this long -term, you know? What was I saying? But the

Lord gave me His peace of understanding, and in writing these things,

I got to affirm again the role of the powerful Lord in the life of an undeserving individual, me.

And I've often also thought about the fact that God put me through so many of these things, but He also gave me the gift of writing and speaking so that I can encourage others as they go through things.

And I can say, I've been there. You can do this. You can do it with God's help, because He is a faithful God.

Well, Amy, if you give us your full mailing address, your full name and full mailing address in Tennessee, you are going to receive a free copy of the book we are discussing,

Christ's Crucible of Praise, Finding Grace in the Midst of Adversity, by our guest, Dr. Latane C. Scott.

And guess what? Since you're a first -time questioner, you're also going to receive a brand new

New American Standard Bible, compliments of the publishers of the NASB, and also compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, which is cvbbs .com,

who will be shipping out both the book and the Bible to you once we get your full name and mailing address.

Thanks a lot, Amy. I hope you keep listening and keep submitting questions to Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio.

We're going to our first break right now. And again, if anybody else would like to join those that are already waiting in line to have their questions asked and answered, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with Dr. Latane C.

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We are now back with Dr. Latune C. Scott. And we have been friends for many years going back to the 90s.

And I've been so blessed by our friendship. She has written a book that has been recently brought back into print,

Crisis Crucible of Praise, Finding Grace in the Midst of Adversity. And, in fact,

I'm going to read a commendation for this book that was written by a mutual longtime friend of both

Dr. Latune C. Scott and myself, Dr. F. Lagarde -Smith, author of the best -selling

The Daily Study Bible and other award -winning books. Lagarde says,

Memorable, practical, neatly tied packages of insight and encouragement for praising

God even through the clenched teeth of personal tragedy, if necessary.

That's a really powerful commendation by our friend Lagarde. And if you have any questions, those of you who are listening, on finding grace in the midst of adversity, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com, chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

We have Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who has a question. And he asks,

Can you compare how you reacted to adversity in your life as a

Mormon to the way that you have responded to it as a born -again believer in Christ Jesus?

Joseph, thank you for that question. And also, I didn't thank Amy for her question. I really appreciate you both writing in.

My answer may surprise you. Since I trusted in God from my mother's breast, that's a biblical promise

I think was given to me, that I can appropriate that promise, that God has proved that promise true in my life, let's put it that way.

I have always had a sense that God was doing something good in my life. And even when

I was a Mormon and I had difficult things happen, my father was mentally ill, and we had some horrible circumstances with my father.

But I always had a hopeful sense, not because I was Pollyannish, but because I believed that God meant me good and not evil all the days of my life.

And, of course, when I found out that the God I had been worshiping in Mormonism was not a true

God, I still had the sense that there was someone out there who had the history, biblical history, that I had read about in Mormonism that could be trusted.

And so, again, going back to the important thing I learned in this crisis, and that is that you have to know who

God is. You have to be assured of His character. And I've never had a time in my life, and this was,

I guess, from God again, where I was suspicious of Him or didn't believe that God meant me well, meant good to my life.

Now, there was a circumstance, and I've talked about this openly too, that after I became a

Christian, I had one time when I had been out of Mormonism about ten years,

I was so desperate for fellowship with the God of the

Bible, which I had felt like I just had fellowship with a false God, why could I not have that kind of an intimate relationship, that I just wanted to die, honestly.

There was another time about ten years ago where I entertained the sudden thought that I think occurs to many college students when they leave their

Christian homes, what if everything, all these guys are saying about God not being there is really the case?

And I had to consider that. But through those things, I never lost my sense that God meant me good, and I kind of generalized from that that He, because of what

He says, He says He's not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance. And so I had that understanding.

So I guess the answer is, Joseph, not really, because I've always believed

God is a good God, that He means me good through bad circumstances. And of course

I was delighted once I became a Christian, and somebody pointed out Romans 828 to me, that God says that bad things can happen to you, but that He will work those circumstances together, and the

Greek word is synergeo, energized together those things, in the life of a believer, bring a good effect from bad circumstances.

And I've certainly seen that to be true, absolutely. And if you could expand on that a little bit, not to derail our conversation into an in -depth conversation about Mormonism, because for those of you interested folks, we have interviewed

Dr. Latane C. Scott on Mormonism a number of times. If you go to ironsharpensironradio .com

and you click on Podcast Past Shows, and in the search engine you type in Latane, L -A -T -A -Y -N -E, all of our interviews with Dr.

Latane C. Scott will come up, because I've never interviewed anybody else by that name. So you can find out more about Mormonism.

In fact, if you type in Mormonism, we've done quite a number of interviews with different guests on Mormonism.

But, just to elaborate a little bit, Mormonism, as you know, one of the very serious heresies and aberrant teachings of Mormonism is that they diminish

God and make Him too much like us.

Now, I'm not talking about, obviously, that precious truth that Christians believe, the

Incarnation of Christ, that Jesus Christ was fully man and fully

God, but the whole essence of God is diminished and made more man -like, it appears, in Mormonism.

And He is less, it seems from every time

I've heard Mormons speak and I've heard Mormons involved in debate, there is something less about their view of His omnipotence, if you will.

And there is a lot more man -centeredness in their understanding about how these things come to play in our lives like Christ's.

But if you could pick up where I left off there, I hope I'm making sense there. Yeah, I understand what you're saying,

Chris, I think. And if I don't, you're perfectly welcome to direct me back.

But I can only speak for what I understood as a Mormon and what was being taught when

I was a Mormon. And I say that because Mormon doctrine about their God is changing.

And I don't know if you realize how astonishing it is. Yes, I've heard how liberal they are becoming amazingly, and they're softening their views on homosexuality and other things.

Well, it's even more basic than that. You know, if God is God, you can't revise your opinion of Him and say, if you're a church that has supposedly direct revelation about the nature of God, you can't contradict what you previously thought.

But when I was a Mormon, I was taught that God, the God of dominance, the

Heavenly Father, was someone who had once lived on another planet and had gone through a life and death and resurrection and been given the gift of Godhood.

This mortal man had been given eternal life and Godhood, and he became the

God who created this world. That's what I was taught. And so, you might say, well, that diminishes

God. When I was a Mormon, I didn't see it that way at all. I saw great identification with someone who had gone through the same processes that I was going through.

You know, had fallen in love, you know, had wanted to get married, had gotten married, that sort of thing.

So that was, you know, I didn't see it as a disadvantage. When I was a Mormon, I saw it as a great advantage.

Well, of course, as you said, the truth of Christianity is that God did become man, but He didn't start out as man.

God, Jesus Christ, took on the form of a servant and emptied Himself. In fact, if I could butt in with this quote that I have,

I think, remembered by heart, by a Mormon so -called prophet,

Lorenzo Snow, as we are,

God once was, and as God is, we can become. And I'm probably not saying that word for word exactly as he said it, but the concept is certainly the same.

You got the sense of it. And he did say that. Lorenzo Snow did say that. And that's what

I believed when I was a Mormon. And so, I did not feel diminished by that.

I did not feel God was diminished by that. But apparently the Mormon churches decided that He was diminished because they teach much less about that, and much more now, the emphasis is on how you, as a human being, can become a

God. And that's something that's taught overtly in the Mormon temple, when people go through the temple to get their endowments prior to going on a mission, or prior to getting married.

So, yeah, that's true. That's a good point. Thank you. Well, Joseph, give us your full mailing address in South Central Pennsylvania, because you have also won a free copy of Crisis Crucible of Praise, Finding Grace in the

Midst of Adversity, by our guest, Dr. Latancy Scott. And as soon as we have your mailing address, cvbbs .com,

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, we'll ship this book out to you. I'm going to read a question from another listener and have you answer it when we get back.

We have Heather, a first -time questioner from Winchester, Virginia.

In this day, it is common for people to dismiss our crisis struggle if it conflicts with their worldview.

What is your advice if your crisis has been life -altering, but others do not consider your crisis or its cause valid?

And you could ponder on that question, and I'll repeat it when we return from the midway break.

And, of course, you can answer it when we return. And, folks, please be patient with us, because this is our longer -than -normal break in the middle of the show that we have every day, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show, because they are required by the

FCC to localize their programming, including Iron Sharpens Iron, to Lake City, Florida, geographically.

So they air their own public service announcements and other local things during this midway break, while we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

So I'm asking you to use this time wisely. If you're listening to this on a recording, please don't fast -forward through the ads.

At least don't every day fast -forward through the ads, because we depend upon our advertisers to exist.

So, therefore, at least once in a while, make sure you write down all of the information provided by as many of our advertisers as possible, so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them, which may mean purchasing their products, using their services, visiting their churches.

But when you can't do any of those things, at least reach out to our advertisers by way of email or phone call, perhaps, and thank them for sponsoring

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, at the very least, if, indeed, you love the show, and you do thank them for sponsoring the show.

So, write down as much of the information as you can, provided by our advertisers, and also, obviously, send in questions for Dr.

Latane C. Scott, on her book, Crisis, Crucible of Praise, Finding Grace in the

Midst of Adversity. That's chrisarnsen at gmail dot com. chrisarnsen at gmail dot com.

Don't go away. We're going to be right back with Dr. Latane C. Scott, right after these messages from our sponsors.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the

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James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new, beautiful facilities in Corham, Long Island, New York.

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Hi, this is John Sampson, Pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the

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Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the

Internet where folk won't be led astray. I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the Body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift, or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com,

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. Here's what

Gary DeMar, president of American Vision, had to say about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio recently.

Good to be back, Chris. I always enjoy our time here. I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for more than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air, so I don't have to brag about myself.

Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, airing live Monday through Friday, 4 to 6 p .m.

Eastern Time, at ironsharpensironradio .com. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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In Psalm 139, verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this.

I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made, and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well.

He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness, and the beauty in what

God has designed, and he has erupted into praise. In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust

God's design. And once we do, there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him.

When the whole world is searching for a solution, God, in his infinite mercy, has given us what we need to address this illness, which can be very serious.

Such is the beauty of his design. Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great

God like the psalmist did? May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.

Thank you. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted.

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And please never forget folks how vital, how crucial

Solid -Ground -Books .com is to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

They are a premier, a primary advertiser on this program and without their financial support that comes through their ad campaigns,

I seriously doubt we would continue to exist, barring a miracle from God financially.

So please, anytime that you are purchasing books, especially not only to replenish your own library, but to bless the lives of those whom you hold most dear, go to Solid -Ground -Books .com,

Solid -Ground -Books .com and they have the finest in Christian literature from the past and the present and always make sure that you tell them that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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When you purchase books from Solid -Ground -Books .com, always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Before we return to Dr. Latane C. Scott and our conversation on Christ's Crucible of Praise, we have some very important announcements to make.

I hope that you tune in the day after tomorrow, Wednesday. We've got what I'm sure will be a fascinating interview with Doug Wilson.

Doug Wilson is a very brilliant writer and controversial figure in the body of Christ, and I hope that you tune in because he has got a lot to say on a very timely current issue that I think, whether or not you agree with Doug on everything in other areas of theology and doctrine and practice, you may find this to be a very helpful and fascinating interview.

The theme will be The Gods of Civil Unrest and Jesus' Mobs. Obviously, this is a blog that was written by Doug right after the recent events in Washington, D .C.

So, I hope that you will listen on Wednesday to get a

Christian and biblical context for all of that, and I'm sure that if you love and know the

Bible well, you will see that Doug has provided that, not only in this article, but he will do that in our discussion.

So, I hope that you tune in on Wednesday. Also, folks, if you love this program and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves,

I'm urging you to please go to www .IronSharpensIronRadio .com, click Support, then click

Click to Donate Now, and donate instantly with a debit or credit card. If you prefer snail mail, like many people do, if you prefer mailing in a check the old -fashioned way, well, an address, a physical address, will appear on the screen when you click

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If you'd like to advertise with us, in fact, I just got an email seconds ago from a listener who wants to explore advertising on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

I want to give a shout -out to Thomas, and I want to thank you for your inquiry about advertising.

Well, you could join Thomas in sending us an email to ChrisArns and at gmail .com

and put advertising in the subject line. Remember, folks, I never want folks who listen, who want to give to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, siphon money away from the regular giving that they're accustomed to, to their own local church where they are a member, in order to give to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

In other words, don't curse or punish your own church financially by blessing us financially.

And also, if you're really struggling to survive, please don't put your family in financial peril and financial jeopardy by giving to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Those two things are commands of God, providing for church and family. And providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God.

But if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, and you love the show, and you don't want it to disappear, go to ironsharpensironradio .com,

click support, then click to donate now. We are in urgent need of your help financially because of the fact that our giving has gone down, very much so because of the hysteria associated with the coronavirus pandemic that has damaged the businesses of many of our listeners and even our advertisers.

So please help us make up for that lost income by donating as much as you can and as often as you can, as long as you are blessed financially above and beyond your ability to provide for your church and family.

Also, folks, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church, I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the planet earth, and I may be able to help you find a church, as I already have done with many people on our audience in all parts of the globe.

So no matter where you live, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, but I need a church. In the subject line,

I may be able to help you find a biblically faithful church. And you might be looking for a church even for a loved one who doesn't have a church, or where you're going on vacation.

Whatever the case may be, if you need a church, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, but I need a church in the subject line.

And that's also the email address where you can send in a question to Dr. Latane C. Scott on Christ's crucible of praise and finding grace in the midst of adversity, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And Latane, as you may recall, we have a listener, Heather, who sent in a question for you.

And I'm bringing that question back up here on the screen. Heather from Winchester, Virginia says,

In this day, it is common for people to dismiss our crisis or struggle if it conflicts with their worldview.

What is your advice if your crisis has been life -altering, but others do not consider your crisis or its cause valid?

That's an interesting question. And I know that I've had people, well -meaning, perhaps,

Christian people, throw placards at me when going through a crisis. And they may even quote biblical truths, but do so with a spirit or manner that at least appears to be indifferent.

There is no heartfelt compassion that you can sense, anyway, in what they're saying.

But try your best to hone in on Heather's specific question and answer it to the best of your ability.

Heather, the Bible says that each heart knows its own sorrow. And we are created as individuals before God.

We all process information differently. We all react to things differently. We, you know, just like a taste and smells that bother one person can be quite delightful to another.

So we're created as individuals, I believe, the Bible tells us, to reflect the different aspects of God.

And if I were you, I would go back and look at the biblical principles about your crisis.

For instance, if it's the death of a loved one, what does the Bible say about the death of a loved one? What if you are taking a stand and suffering greatly because of defending a stand that's biblical, that is despised by mainstream society, for instance.

And I don't know, Heather, if this is your issue, but I'll tell you that someone close to me struggles because she has someone very beloved to her who really wants to change his gender.

And the argument that the young man has toward my friend is, if you would get in step with society, if you'd get in step with reality, then you would know that what

I'm asking is not unreasonable. And this has caused her great sorrow, my friend great sorrow.

So it's very important, I think, to see if what you are holding up as a standard that's been violated, that's hurt you, is that a biblical standard, is it a personal standard, or is it a societal standard?

And if you have a biblical standard, like my friend can say, you know, Jesus cannot have fellowship with someone who loves and makes a lie, makes a lie.

And that's what becoming another gender is, you're making a lie real.

I forgot exactly how I got to that. The point is that is the standard that is being violated that has hurt you a personal one, a personal preference?

Is it one of biblical truth, or is it one that is accepted by the world that you can accept?

And that would help me, I think, Heather, in dealing with what

I assess as a crisis and what is not a crisis. Well, thank you so much,

Heather, for taking the time to write in. And since you are also a first -time questioner, you are also, in addition to receiving

Crisis Crucible of Praise, the book that we are discussing by our guest, Dr. Latane C.

Scott, not only are you going to receive that, but you're also going to receive, as a first -time questioner, a brand -new

New American Standard Bible, compliments of our friends at nasbible .com,

the publishers of the NASB, and also compliments of our friends at cvbbs .com,

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, who will actually be shipping those books, that book and that Bible, out to you at no cost to you or to Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio.

And we also want to remember to thank Dr. Latane C. Scott for providing these books that we have been giving away to our listeners.

And please keep listening to the show, Heather, and keep praying for the show and spreading word about Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio.

We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, and Bobby says,

In listening to the show today, I am very thankful that your theology, that is very much involved in how you believe

Christians should respond to crisis, is very unlike one of the most prevalent heresies going on in the world and the church today, and that is the

Word of Faith movement, that would say that any crisis or illness or negative thing that we are experiencing is always because we have a lack of faith, and it has nothing to do with God's design in their mind on how to actually bless us.

I am immediately thinking also of how this may have caused a shipwreck of a blossoming faith that may have been occurring in the heart and mind of our

President Donald Trump as he experiences such hatred throughout this planet and also has lost his re -election.

And I say this because there have been false prophets and prophetesses in the

Word of Faith movement assuring him that he was going to be re -elected, which we obviously know was false, and I tremble to think of how this may have brought a shipwreck of faith into his life.

If you could please respond how this is a very dangerous and damning notion to believe every time we go through trials, it's always because of a lack of faith or something else on our part.

I would like to address two things for your listener, and thank you so much for that comment.

The first thing is the Bible is very explicit about the fact that the ones the

Lord loves He disciplines. And so I've always considered He must love me a lot because He disciplines me so much.

But I go back to 1 Peter, and in 1 Peter chapter 4 it says, Dear friends, don't be surprised at the painful trial of your suffering, as though something strange were happening to you.

But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so you may be overjoyed when

His glory is revealed. If you're insulted because of the name of Christ, you're blessed, for the

Spirit of glory and God rests on you. If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal or even as a meddler.

However, if you suffer as a Christian, don't be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.

And he goes on to talk about judgment starting with the people of God. The other thing

I want to, and so I have always said to the Lord when something has happened, Lord, I am willing to accept correction.

I am willing to have course corrections in my life. I am willing to be humbled.

One of the things that happened with my husband and 6 million dollars worth of medical bills was that we lost everything.

We had a beautiful house. We had an RV. We had cars. We had other things.

And of course, when you go through something as catastrophic as my husband's illness was, you lose everything. But I always had the sense,

God is teaching me something through this. I get to depend on God. I get to see

His direct action on me. I get to see the love of my brothers and sisters in it. The other thing

I want to address that your listener said was about faith being shipwrecked. And it's so, that's one of those redundancies, because I'd actually written down before we start this interview the word shipwrecked, because I am seeing so many people whose faith is being shipwrecked.

And that means that you're floating along and you're doing well and you're carrying your cargo and then all of a sudden you're laid out on the beach and everything's lost.

And people's faith is being shipwrecked right now. And I urge anyone who's feeling like they're teetering on the edge of that, please go to my

YouTube channel, for which I get no money by the way. I'm not trying to sell anything. Please go to my

YouTube channel and listen to the things I recorded before my husband passed away.

And about why I knew God had treated us in a special and endearing way through terrible crisis.

You don't have to shipwreck your faith. You don't have to lose everything. You don't have to jettison the precious cargo of your heritage and your faith just because we're in a pandemic or because in the middle of the pandemic, it's happened to me,

I lost both my mother and my husband in the middle of the pandemic. You don't have to jettison your faith because circumstances happen that would drive others to despair.

In fact, you can find more joy and more peace and more direct action of the Lord on you in trouble than you ever can in peace,

I believe. Well, thank you, Bobbie. And you have also won a free copy of Crisis Crucible of Praise, Finding Grace in the

Midst of Adversity. Please make sure you give us your full mailing address in, where was that?

Hartsdale, New York. And thanks for listening to the show. And we want to thank

Latane again for providing us with these books that we have been given away, a limited number that we have.

And we want to thank CVBBS .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, for shipping these books out to our winners today.

Before I go on to another listener, you have a fancy book -learning word in the title of your book,

Crucible, which may seem antiquated also to some people just because they don't know what it means.

If you could explain why you specifically use that word in your title. In metallurgy, or the forming of metal from its raw elements, something is put into a superheated source, such as a cauldron.

And what comes out of it, the impurities are either burned away or they sink to the bottom.

And what comes out is the purified metal that's useful for forming things like weapons or bowls or any such thing.

And what happens in a crisis is that we are put in this superheated atmosphere. And instead of God trying to burn us up,

He's trying to burn away the impurity and to help us emerge from that crucible, and praising

Him and in greater fellowship with Him than we've ever been before. Not diminished by the crisis, but actually encouraged and built up.

And as I humbly say, we get to tell the story of how good

God was to us in that cauldron, in that crucible. Well, it's an excellent word and is a perfect picture of exactly what we're discussing today.

We have, and this is a very good question, and I think that perhaps it has more benefit to our listeners than even our listener intended herself when she wrote the question.

Because after I read her question, I'm going to expand upon it for both men and women.

But Angela in El Paso, Texas, I once fell in love with a

Mexican girl there. Just kidding. That's a very famous song. For those of you who don't know.

Marty Walden. Yes, right. And Angelica, I think

I might have said Angela. Angelica said, I've been wanting to find a lady that can mentor me.

My question, what should I look for in an older, wiser woman? How can I mentor a younger lady?

Thank you. I would love a copy of Latane's book to know how to handle life when it hits unexpectedly.

And a very good question. And after you address her specific question, I'm going to expand on her question myself.

I believe she had two questions. What should I look for in someone to mentor me? And what should

I become in order to mentor others? Yes, that's basically what she was asking. Yes, those two different things.

Well, my advice is don't ever go to anybody that's had a comfortable, pleasant life and ask them to mentor you or tell you anything because they don't know.

For what? It's just like one of my professors in college told me that if you want something done, go to the busiest person you know because they find time to get things done.

Don't go to the person that has a lot of free time on their hands because they have free time on their hands because they don't do anything.

So that may sound kind of hard -nosed, but go to somebody who's been through the crucible and has maintained their faith.

And truly, the only thing we end up taking to heaven is our faith. We don't take our possessions.

We don't take our followings on social media. We don't take our published books, anything else.

We just take our faith. And so you find somebody that has been through it and has implacable, unchangeable faith in the

Lord Jesus Christ because of their trials. And if you want to become a mentor to other people, you have to devote yourself to the

Bible because nobody, no human being's experience is normative. What I mean by that is you can't build your faith on any human being's experience, although you can go to somebody to encourage you as a mentor or you want to become a mentor.

That's really good. But you have to go to the Bible and see what happened over generations.

You can have somebody who commits a sin that we would think is innocuous, yet it affects generations of their progeny.

You can see what makes God angry with somebody. You can see what makes Him happy.

You can see what causes Him to sing and dance, so to speak. And if you can go to the

Bible and see those things, then you have something to tell other people because you can't say, do what

I do. Even Paul said, if you're going to imitate me, only do it as far as I imitate

Christ. I'm breeding a little bit into his scripture there. But the point is that no experience, experience is only for fellowship and for authenticity.

But the truth of whether or not something, how to handle crisis, is in the

Bible itself, learning the character of God, being assured of the character of God. And you are assured of the character of God because you see what

He's done in the past through generations. I mean, I'm on my, like, maybe 75th, 80th reading of the

Bible, and every time I get up in the morning and read a passage I've read, I've read all those many times, and sometimes many more times than that, and I'll say, wow,

I never knew that, or I just saw that. The Word of God is a supernatural book.

The Bible is a supernatural book with supernatural powers, and it never grows old, and it's never exhausted of meaning.

Okay, I probably went further than you wanted me to on that, Chris. No, no, no. What I was going to say or ask to make this even a broader application to both men and women,

I know firsthand how crucially important and valuable

Christian friendship is, and you don't know how valuable it is typically until you have been plunged into the depths of a dark, frightening, traumatizing, depressing trial.

I even know from my own walk with Christ that the worst thing that I ever did in my life was to isolate myself more and more from other

Christians, which I had done, unfortunately, over a decade ago, and turned to alcohol abuse as a way of self -medicating, and thankfully

I went to Heberon Colony Ministries, a recovery ministry in Boone, North Carolina, that the

Lord used to deliver me from that addiction, and thankfully, praise be to God, I don't even have the slightest temptation in that area, although always remembering that he who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

At the same time, I am just thankful that I am not tempted to return to that death style,

I almost said lifestyle. But one of the reasons, I believe,

I fell back into that serious sin, in fact a damning sin, a habitual drunkenness, is because I did not surround myself on a regular basis with Christian friends.

I might have showed up to church and gotten out of there as soon as I could, but as far as actively not only maintaining friendships and cultivating friendships with brothers and sisters in Christ, I had just become almost a hermit when it came to Christians, but hanging out in pubs and things and finding comfort and making new friends that did not know

Christ. So isn't this an extremely vital and important aspect of our walk with Christ, is to be surrounded by good, solid,

Bible -believing Christian friends? Absolutely, and being a member of a Bible -believing church,

I'll never be able to thank my church, the Mountainside Church of Christ, enough for the support, both spiritual support and actual physical support, they provided me over the last nine years.

I mean, my mom, who was not a member of our fellowship but was a

Christian, that I've never seen anything like that, because people would just say, you know, from the time

I was a young bride, you know, when I had children, let me keep your children for you, let me do this, let me do that, and a network of caring people in our community.

And, of course, the way to be a friend, the way to have a friend, is to be a friend and to sacrifice yourself and do things for other people.

You have to make the first move. I think a lot of elderly people, for instance, are rightly discouraged and depressed over this

COVID situation, but they all have telephones. As my husband Dan says, there's always somebody worse off than you.

You call that person and you encourage them and tell them you're going to pray for them, and then you do it. Write it down on a piece of paper, and you pray for that person.

That doesn't cost any money, and it only costs you time, and that's the way to have a friend, is to be a friend.

And I also want to clarify something that I said, so hopefully no one gets a wrong interpretation of my words.

I can remember one of the best sermons I ever heard from my former minister,

Mike Gadosh, who's actually the founder of Solid Ground Christian Books, was Jesus a friend of sinners and separate from sinners.

I don't want anybody to think from my question and statement that I believe that Christians must be isolated from unbelievers, that we are never to have friendships with unbelievers, that we are to be in some kind of a

Christian monastery where we're only surrounded all the time by Christians.

That's not what I intended to say. Obviously, it is very important to be in the presence on occasion with unbelievers, even for the stronger, more seasoned

Christian with great regularity, but we cannot leave behind or cut out those very crucial and vital friendships with believers.

And I just wanted to make sure I made clear so nobody misunderstood what I had to say, because there are people who only go to the

Christian Yellow Pages for every business that they want to use for whatever needs they have, and they only hang out with folks in their own church, and they're never out there developing friendships with unbelievers so that they can be salt and light in this world as Jesus was.

As I said, the title of that sermon was Jesus, Friend of Sinners and Separate from Sinners. He ended up being, of course, the

God -man, had a perfect balance with that. But we have to go to our final break.

It's going to be much more brief than the other breaks. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own before we run out of time, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

In fact, let me just read a brief question from an anonymous listener that you can answer when we come back with time.

As a segue to your other listener who sent in a question about older women mentoring younger women, should we approach younger women with humility and offer our services as a mentor to them, as long as we, of course, have examined our hearts, knowing that we are doing this because of what

Scripture teaches and not because of our own pride or exaggerated self -importance?

And we will have you respond to that when we come back from our final break. Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Dr. Latane C. Scott after these messages. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world.

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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

All hail the power of Jesus' name

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If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby we hope you will join us some

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Welcome back. And Dr. Latane C. Scott, you may recall before the break, we had an anonymous listener asking if older women should be approaching younger women offering their services as a mentor.

I'm assuming you might agree with me that you might not want to phrase it that way.

Hi, would you like me to be your mentor? Although I think it's appropriate to recommend other ladies that way,

I think it would be wonderful and actually obedient to Scripture if you seek to be under the mentoring of a godly woman and let me recommend this person.

But to say yourself, hi, I'd like to mentor you, that may come across as being bizarre and vain and arrogant.

But anyway, I want you to answer, obviously, because that's what our listener wanted your answer. I've never gone to a younger woman and said, let me mentor you.

The only exception to that was that when

I was younger and did not have the responsibilities of caregiving, etc., I would go to every woman that was baptized at our church and say to them,

I will give you a year of my life to teach you the Bible if you want it. And some of those women are, or the women that I did that with, are still

Christians today because they had a good biblical foundation. But I never said, I'm going to mentor you.

I would tell them that I can study the Bible with you if you want. And some turned me down.

One woman told me, no, I know the Bible well enough on my own. I said, great. But that was just my offer to you.

In terms of mentoring, one reality of being an older woman is the lack of comparative energy that an older woman has compared to a younger one.

If I wanted to be helpful to a younger woman, I think I would offer something like to pray for them or to send them a card of encouragement or something like that, with the thought that if that woman ever wanted to ask advice, that she could do that later, that I'm with you.

I think most younger women would take that in the wrong way if someone said,

I want to mentor you, because they would see that as someone older wanting to control them in some way.

Just my personal opinion. Yeah, I actually know about a, I'm not going to mention names, obviously,

I know of a bond of friendship, and actually a family bond was broken, sadly, when a fairly well -known preacher approached his son -in -law, desiring to be his son -in -law's mentor, actually stepson,

I'm sorry, stepson to the biological son of this individual's second wife after the death of his first.

And this person had been a pastor already for decades and basically said,

I really love your offer to help, but I don't need a mentor,

I'm in my 50s, I've been a pastor for decades, and that actually erupted into a very sad and tragic split in their relationship.

But, yeah, well, we have to do everything with prayer and humility. I usually only announce the first names of people and their city and state of residence, but in this case

I'm going to announce the person's full name. He happens to be Philip J.

Silvia, PhD, who is Director of Publications at TSU Press in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and he says,

I am Latane's publisher, and I want to thank you for giving her such meaningful time, airtime. She has such a solid faith in the

Lord Jesus Christ. Her faith -life experience pours from her books. She is a voice that needs to be heard.

Although today's program is about her most recent book, I hope your listeners will take the time to explore her other works, too.

So I just figured I'd give you that shout -out from Dr.

Philip J. Silvia. And, Dr. Silvia, if you want to give me your full mailing address in Albuquerque, New Mexico, I'll make sure you get a free

New American Standard Bible, because you are, as far as I can tell, a first -time questioner.

Although I know that I was involved in conversations with you when I arranged an interview with Dr.

Stephen Collins, one of your other authors, the archaeologist. But thank you for those great and encouraging words to Latane.

Well, Latane, we are almost out of time. If you could have several minutes of uninterrupted time to basically summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

Yes. This book that I wrote, Christ is Crucible of Praise, about a particular period of time in which

I had multiple and sustained crises, prepared me for the crises that came in my life.

And, in a sense, all of your listeners are going through a crisis now. The COVID and all of the things that are happening there, the political unrest.

And then many other people have things on top of that. Loss of loved ones, illnesses, financial problems, other things that aren't specifically just the disease and just the political situation.

I want your listeners to know, you may not be an author, but right now you are writing for the people around you the story of your faith.

The Bible says, if you can't keep up with the footmen, how are you going to keep up with the horses running?

This is your time. This is your great opportunity to show faith in the unseen and to repudiate the scene as having any effect on your faith.

This is the time where you have to be vocal and say, I'm doing this because of my faith in the

Lord Jesus Christ. Natasha Crane, who's another writer, makes a very valid point.

You can't just say, God bless you, in our society. You can't just say, have a good day or blessings on you or whatever, because the listener can assign that to any

God or deity they want. Be specific about the name of Jesus Christ and say,

I do these things because of my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. And why wouldn't you have faith in a man who could get up out of a grave?

Why would you not have faith in a man who could be at the right hand of the

Father right now and are singing for us? His name deserves to be said. And your children and your grandchildren and your neighbors and your friends are watching as you write the story of your faith.

And sometimes we're like that man in the New Testament that said, I do believe, help increase my faith.

And God hears that. He is so receptive to the weak and the downtrodden.

Tell Him, I feel weak and downtrodden. Help me have more faith. Increase my faith. And you increase your faith, you participate in the process of that by reading of His mighty works in the supernatural book that we have and telling other people, if God did that in the past, here's what

I'm concluding He can do in the present. And assure yourself of His character. Don't ever let the slightest hint of doubt of His character enter your mind.

Don't judge circumstances. Don't judge God on the basis of your circumstance. Judge your circumstances on the basis and on the foundation of a

God who says, I am a good God, I am loving, and I am kind. And filter all your circumstances through that certain knowledge of His impactful character.

Amen. Well, I want to make sure that our listeners have your website, latayne .com, and that's my guest's first name,

L -A -T -A -Y -N -E dot com. You can find out a lot more about Latayne and other books she has written.

I'd like you to also visit another website of another friend of mine,

Dr. David Murray. Yes, I know David. Yes, I know. That's why I was bringing him up. Dr.

David Murray is a dear friend I've known for quite a number of years. I've interviewed him a number of times on this program, and until very recently, before he accepted the call to a new pastoral ministry in a different state, he was, for a number of years, on the faculty at Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan, founded by another friend of mine,

Dr. Joel Beeky. Well, if you go to David Murray's website, headhearthand .org,

headhearthand .org, and if you type in Latayne's name into the search engine,

L -A -T -A -Y -N -E, a conversation, a written conversation, will come up between Dr.

David Murray and Latayne on her conversion out of Mormonism, which

I think that you'll find quite fascinating. That's headhearthand .org.

And I want to thank you, Latayne, for being such a wonderful guest, as I knew you would be from past experience.

I look forward to you returning to the program. I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.