Suicide

Welcome to have you not read a podcast seeking to answer questions from the text of scripture for the honor of Christ and the

Edification of the Saints before we dig into our topic. We humbly ask you to rate review and share the podcast.

Thank you Welcome to season 3 of have you not read? I'm Dylan Hamilton and with me are

Michael Durham Chris Giesler Andrew Hudson And David Kasson. Yes, we have five people on the mic today

It's gonna be a good one, but I'd like to start out since we're going on season 3 here, and we've had our little break

I'd like to touch on each host each member and see what we'd like to thank the

Lord and Praise him for that happened this summer whether area of personal growth or learning or something you saw

You know in your children or your family life that you you'd really like to lift praises to Michael will start with you I'd like to thank the

Lord for just a lot of different expressions of faithfulness that I've seen This summer

I think especially for my family in the church Just thankful to see God's faithfulness a lot of answered prayers and ways

That God provided and guided and and helped that we didn't even know that we needed but as a good heavenly father

He knows our needs and I'm very grateful There's been a lot of answers to prayer in my home.

Just a lot of situations that Maybe in previous summers

You know things that are it could be troubling and difficult and this this year not so much

Kind of a reprieve on some things and it's still we're learning to not fear but to trust the Lord My kids are getting older.

I'm getting older. I don't like either one of those times but they are they are blessings and Thankful for God's provision for health

Mostly just health for my wife and my children health and safety and in vibrancy and Opportunities for us to be together and to grow together in Christ thankful for the church

What God's doing here at Sunnyside seeing that God's bringing us through some difficult things and some new things which

I'm thankful for and it kind of reflecting on the last nine years where God has brought us and just thankful for Every part of it and then

I just personally Growing in some areas You know learning more about the value of work learning more about being content

The precious jewel of Christian contentment that was a good book Read some biographies

Growing in my appreciation and understanding of prayer. It's been a good summer

I'm thankfully not the man. I was in May. Amen to that Chris. I am thankful to God for a restful sustainment,

I think With our kids we have these like mile markers. Everyone's like, oh, they're doing this they're doing this this summer has been

It seemed a little bit different and that it seems like where you can think of things as mundane

Let's just get it and out of the way. It's been more of a intentional Focusing on the daily, but not in such a way that it's cumbersome

It's been restful and it's just been I'm taking these opportunities this summer this time that I have with my kids

Training and teaching and fits and all this everything and it's just been

We're gonna let God Use this opportunity. We're gonna let God use us I think for me a verse that keeps coming to mind is the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God and I have a temper, but this summer has been

Just grace upon grace when those opportunities for anger would come up God has sustained me in it and I am grateful for that and I'm grateful for my wife who just takes everything in stride

And so it's been there's been you know things that we would like to have gone other ways, but it's still been

God's sustaining us restfully through it and just very grateful for that. Amen, Andrew It's amazing.

We all always have different experiences, but we're thankful to the same one who gives us these things.

I retired in 2022 around September from the

United States Air Force this summer has been the first summer of Retirement to be home with my family.

Now. I'm also taking I also took some college courses during the summer But there was a period of time.

I'm so thankful for the time that I was afforded with my family Doing homeschool with them

Taking care of work projects at the house that needed to be done. It's quite remarkable how a busy life with extracurricular sports and Lots of tugs on your time the things that get put on the back burner that should not be

So I'm thankful to the Lord to be able to do those things that he gave me that time to do that We also got to do the

There's a couple in the congregation that develops a children's portion of a summer reading program

So I was able to go through that with my children and it was very wonderful this year to be part of doing that Present with them instead of it being my wife while I was away being able to read have them read it to discuss it what a wonderful thing to check off the boxes with them and and Just participate with them as a is a great blessing

Sometimes in life, you don't know what you have Until it's gone and then sometimes when something else leaves you see what you really have

So we were not doing any We were doing competitive soccer with those children.

We're not doing that this year I don't have work outside the home like I used to and now

I just have school So the things that got cleared away Helped me to see what God has given me and I'm thankful for that.

Amen, David well, this has been a very busy Travel season.

I'm in the travel industry and summer when most people are off a lot of kids are out of school

Business is good business was very good over the over the summer. But of course, that's a double -edged sword

So I was gone all the time. I have worked pretty much every weekend Since since about May so spent a lot of my summer working and I have not been to Sunday service

Very much at all. I think I've been able to count on one hand the number of Sunday services

I've been able to attend that has made me so thankful for Wednesday night a

Wednesday night prayer meeting and we have dinner and fellowship and a short lesson and just time of just You know eating and feeding each other, you know spiritually and then in praying for one another and You know, it's not that it's not as apparent in a small church

But in a large church the people who come on Wednesday nights really want to be there You know

Some people go through the motions and come to church on Sundays But the people that come on Wednesdays really want to be there and it is it's a joy to be

Surrounded with people like that it is so I love seeing you guys there It means a lot to me and it is often the only fellowship that I get during the week

So thankful for a good job, and I definitely glad that the summer is just about over and a lot of that Fast pace is starting to relent just a little bit over the summer

My wife and I really wanted to serve the teens in our church

We wanted to provide more opportunities for them just to get together. And of course, I'm thinking that'll be awesome

You know, I'm coming up gonna go play putt -putt or sit around the fire or you know come over need food or let's watch a movie or you know anything and and of course

I had I had a great time with it and You know, Amy loved it too. She's her one of her gifts is hospitality so opening up the house for this and Just allowing a bunch of kids to come in and come and go as they please and even if people couldn't show up like when

It started quote -unquote they were coming towards the end. They come in late and the first words out of her mouth is great.

Welcome We're so glad that you're here. Are you hungry? Foods there and that's that's the kind of welcome that they would get in our in our home

And and that's the environment that she creates so thankful for her and our daughter did a bunch of summer stock

Drama and plays and I've just watched her blossom and grow come out of her shell and become very expressive

Very confident not to mention she's doing kickboxing as well so, you know as as she gets a little older and Boys become more interested.

I'm thankful for kickboxing. Yeah, I'll say that said out loud So be be aware any young men

She's got quite the kick and then in I'm able to spend a lot of time in Dallas with my side of the family my extended family and that is a huge struggle and I don't just mean like politically or It's it's we're on opposite ends of spectrum there

You know just socially worldview everything spiritual is is very very it's polar opposite and It is a constant struggle but I'm able to rebuild some of those relationships my mom with my dad my brother my sister their families and I'm thankful for that.

No matter what happens. They know that I I love them and that they love me and Perhaps I'll have an opportunity to you know, talk with them more about things that really matter things of eternity

But it's nice to at least have that interaction with them. So and that's what

I got to do over the summer Amen, well Heather nine. We've had a soul added to our family between last time and through this break a little

Charles Hugh Hamilton came into our lives Safely due to the Lord's intervention and a wise doctor's decision

And my wife Heather and I are very very thankful for that We are praising the Lord for the Lord's provision do a couple of wild occurrences and wild weeks in the summer which is the main portion of my my work during the year because I'm heavily seasonal and he has he has blessed us nothing short of Abundance, so we're very thankful for that and we know that he's proving his faithfulness over and over and that's what he's showing us

That's what he's telling us. Um, and we are becoming more and more Open and understanding of his

Communication through those through those means mostly through the to the church body who's been so generous

And as we're going through Philippians in a Sunday school class There's a lot of parallels between the faithfulness of that church to give

And what I see here at Sunnyside to other church members Who are in need and without asking at all and it would just it just shows up and I'm very thankful for this body

And what they've done for all of us but thankfulness has a tie into our subject today and you were that were the lack thereof and so I'd like David if he would

Do introduce our subject for the day because of your personal contact with the subject. Sure.

So disclaimer if there is But there are younger listeners.

This is a very serious topic I don't think we're gonna say anything that that can't be dealt with with Scripture But if there are younger listeners and all parents do use discretion also over the summer

We've gotten several questions. We have inputs not even from our own church even from some of us here but we did receive a very nice note not every piece of correspondence we get is is so It's so amiable.

We have some haters and we like you guys So if you if you have piercing questions, we don't shy away from them

But we're very appreciative of this listener who wrote in it was dealing with the topic of suicide many of us have been

Touched by this personally Some of you that are listening have had family members people.

They're very close to you friends who have either contemplated it attempted or even succeeded and This is a very serious very serious topic is very sobering but it is something that the scriptures do address so in this case

This listener just appreciated the things that we had said things we had talked about the interaction we have with each other our friendship our love for one another even when we disagree on topics and This listener had said that they had struggled with this issue and that just listening to us helped and it was

Incredibly encouraging to me in particular years ago. Well back when

I was in the Air Force I was an aircraft commander on a on a c -130 and we were overseas in in Africa and You know when you're in you're in your early 30s

You're an officer you fly planes across the ocean. You are bulletproof I mean you you can take on the world and you have and that that was that was

That's how I felt and that's how everybody else around us felt we were blind

To people that were struggling. I'm one of the people that I was responsible for one of my crew members was

Struggling with some personal issues deep things with he and his wife and it got to the point where he couldn't do his job

We knew that he just could not focus on the mission And what we were doing was dangerous the places where we were going were very dangerous and you you had to have all your stuff

Sewed up ready to go and he just he just wasn't any and he knew that and when we took him off the schedule

He understood But it was time We're gonna have to send him home early because he had some things that he needed to deal with he could not be in a

War zone and we wanted to take care of him. But the night before he left I sat down with him talked with him and this was

Nearly 20 years ago, so you could get away with stuff like this, but I asked him if I could pray for him

And he said yeah. Yeah sure and he wasn't really a man of faith, but I think he appreciated it

So no his boss his commander just prayed with him and then he left the next day

We were there for about another week and then we got the planes back from Africa across Europe and into North America and the last night before we got back to Tucson we were overnighting in Albany, New York and our commander

Mike came to us and said that that he had killed himself he had

Been back in town for a couple of days the problems with him with he and his wife. We're not getting better I think she that she was gonna leave him and then he had taken his own life and we were in shock

We knew he's had some problems, but that's it's not like his story was unique We hear that stuff all the time, you know people splitting up people getting back together people

Cheating on one and I just it was it was all over the place So a marriage breaking up wasn't unusual but to have somebody that close to us take their own life

It was a shock to us It was a very dark day and all of us came to his funeral and I carried his funeral bulletin this little program in my

Bible for ten years and I wondered I struggled with What more could

I have done what else could I have said Could I have prayed for something else?

Could I have prayed harder could I've pleaded with him? I don't know and I've struggled with that for for nearly two decades

He was in my charge. He was one of mine and We lost him and for someone to write in and tell us how much

It meant to him or her as they were struggling with something similar and that we helped them Meant a lot to me personally as those who believe in the sovereignty of God that God is in control that We have a loving father who

Knows the number of hairs on our head a sparrow doesn't fall to the ground without him knowing it He knows the end from the beginning.

No one resists his will he he knows the future because he causes it, you know, God is

Sovereign he is in control and we can rest in that but we still struggle with these with these issues and I wanted to bring that topic to you guys today.

I wanted to hear your thoughts and What can we do to people that what can we say?

The people who are dealing with this issue either themselves or within their families or people that they know What does the scripture have to say about this topic and I put it back to you well, this is a theme that I think

Of course is very weighty. I think that There are a lot of people who have thought about suicide have perhaps been on the brink of it and are likely

Either too scared or too ashamed to talk about it with the people who are the closest to them and Very often

Some of the people who are close to them are also the ones who could be most helpful but it it is a kind of Betrayal in the mind to say

I've been thinking about this or I've had been having these thoughts or I've I've Considered this or these these thoughts come to me about suicide if you say that to people who are close to you then there is a feeling that You're saying something to them.

You're not enough. You failed me somehow and Somebody who has thought about suicide or is dealing with Very self -focused depressed thoughts will shy away from Saying these things because then all this will just make them think even worse of me or I'm gonna cause even more harm than I already have by making them feel bad and this is symptomatic of sin sin thrives in the darkness sin thrives where there is no light and I just want to say if you listening to this podcast if you have

Had thoughts about suicide then it's not something for you to To wallow in or to think about only on your own or to beat yourself up about It is something that you need to talk with your elder about talk with your pastor about talk about this with somebody who?

Can help you somebody who can help bear your burden remember that Jesus wants us to bear one another's burdens and we are to love one another as he has loved us and There are some burdens that are too big to bear.

We are entangled by them We are caught in these trespasses as Galatians chapter 6 says

Therefore we are to look for help because we sometimes we are entangled in Trespasses that are too big for us and we can't get up on our own and others need to help us and God knows that so there are many people who are

Born again love Jesus and are ready to love you to help you Now we need to think about what does the

Bible have to say about suicide? It's not a word that you're going to find in the Bible if you use a concordance and so on There are passages that talk about it more obviously

Such as the story of Judas Iscariot who went out and hung himself or King Saul who fell upon his own sword

Now those stories can help us understand a little more about why suicide happens why people kill themselves

But there are a lot of other passages in the Bible that also Can help us understand what it is

We ought not to leave the sin of suicide in the dark

Where we don't talk about it and let it remain mysterious and ill -defined and confusing

We need to bring that out into the light of God's Word and see what it really is because First John chapter 1 tells us that That if We walk in the light as God is in the light

We have fellowship with him and the blood of Jesus his son cleanses us from all sins

So we need to bring things out into the light if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness

So in confession just means saying what God says about it. So if I'm having thoughts about suicide Well, that's those are sinful thoughts that's not to that's not to Spur me on and say well,

I guess since I'm having sinful thoughts then I should just give up No It's I need to bring these thoughts into the light of what

God says about them so that I may be forgiven and cleansed and delivered So that's what we're hoping to do

With this podcast is to bring that into the light now we know that When God spoke to Adam and Eve, he told them that if they were if they sinned in the day that they sinned

They would surely die and this tells us that death is not

Non -existence Death is a separation Because in the day that Adam and Eve ate

From the tree of the knowledge of good and evil when they decided to determine good and evil for themselves rather than listen to God They indeed did die.

They were separated from God they their relationship was was now distant

It was there was sin between them and God their sin had made a separation between them and God There was separation between but the both of them

They hid from God tried to try to hide from God and they tried to hide from each other Adam blaming

Eve their relationship to the created order changed. There was separation all over the place now when we think about sin being

Leading to death because we sin there for comes death the very notion of choosing death

Embracing death is very serious. This is a full embracing of sin Right death came into the world because one man sinned all men died because all men sinned but to embrace death to lay hold on death and to think of it as some kind of solution is to choose good and evil for yourself and decide

I'm Going to determine what's good and evil rather than God but truly grabbing both hands on to that which is

Not only not a solution. It is the exact opposite a full embracing of all the consequences of sin so it's obviously not something that we ought to do when we look at the

Ten Commandments the Ten Commandments are structured as a Akaiasm where you have concentric parallels moving in from the outer

Commandments all the way to the center and at the very heart of God's covenant with Israel We find this commandment thou shalt not kill thou shalt not murder.

That's at the very heart of it. It is the it is the central most important point of the whole covenant description

Thou shalt not murder What is suicide? well, it is self -murder and There are many reasons why

People may want to kill themselves why people do kill themselves, but at the heart of it

It is a turning away from God. It is a determining for oneself

What is good and evil and it is a severing of oneself from the world which

God made? From the people who God has put into your life and an act of defiance against the

God who made you So it is certainly a sin What else should we say about it?

What else does the Bible have to say about it? How does the Bible help us understand this particular sin suicide?

Andrew I see a lot of notes over there. Well, whenever we were well when I was contemplating or meditating upon this topic

My first thought was that you know The suppression of truth and unrighteousness has its consequences and that that brought me obviously to the language found in Romans 1 18 through 32

I'll read a smaller portion or maybe I'll read the whole portion.

I think we probably have time for that I'll try to make it Succinct though for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness

Of men who suppress the truth and unrighteousness because what may be known of God is

Manifest in them for God has shown it to them for since the creation of the world his invisible

Attributes are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made even his eternal power and Godhead so that they are without excuse because although they knew

God they did not glorify him as God Nor were thankful but became futile in their thoughts and their foolish hearts were darkened professing to be wise they became fools and changed the glory of the incorruptible

God into an image made like corruptible man and birds and four -footed animals and creeping things

Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness and the lust of their hearts to dishonor their bodies among themselves to exchange the truth of God for the lie and Worshipped and served the creature rather than the

Creator who is blessed forever Amen for this reason God gave them up to vile passions for even the women exchanged the natural use of what is against nature

Likewise also the men leaving the natural use of the woman burned in their lust for one another men with men committing what is shameful and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was

Due and even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge God gave them over to a debased mind to do things which are not fitting being filled with all unrighteousness sexual immorality wickedness covetousness maliciousness full of envy murder strife deceit evil -mindedness

They are whisperers backbiters haters of God violent proud boasters inventor of evil things disobedience of parents undiscerning untrustworthy unloving

Unforgiving unmerciful who knowing the righteous judgment of God that those who practice such things are deserving of death

Not only do they do the same but also approve of those who practice them So with all of what the word has said there in verse 21 because although they knew

God they did not glorify him as God nor were thankful but became futile in their thoughts futility and thought

Manifests in different ways we see One of the conclusions of futility or vanity as being nihilism

Where nothing is worth it. Anyway, if if there's no point then why bother?

but Connected to that. You also have the idea of hedonism, which is today we eat and drink and for tomorrow we die

So they're really connected the idea of like if it doesn't matter then let's just please ourselves

But Really? Are you doing away with? that nagging thought in Romans 2 it talks about the internal witness even among the

Gentiles Accusing and excusing the things that are against law or of law

How do you escape the accusing of that internal witness? I?

Think the self has to eclipse God There's a nihilism if the self eclipses

God because there's no answers in the self and If on the other side of it, okay

Fine nihilism. I'm gonna live for the experiences hedonism all for me all for me either way the self entirely eclipses

God to the point where You're searing your conscious you're you're shutting out.

You're turning the music up so loud That you you can't hear the knock at the window of your car to let you know, there's a problem, right?

that's the situation where many times even people who would ascribe to holiness to spirituality to Meaning in life and so on and so forth.

Why would they commit suicide? Because the self is so large in their own mind that they find no escape

They can't see anything outside of themselves And Andrew you know you read

Romans 1 which is usually Something that that people would read. So this is this is life.

This is community. This is what happens in society without God this is the Degeneration and it's it's filled with violence immorality and idolatry and just it's chaos so someone who's contemplating suicide there's like I I'm not part of this chaos.

I'm I'm just hurting. I'm in darkness. I'm in despair Why does Romans 1 speak to that person?

Well, so in verse 22 Sorry in verse 21. You also have the phrase their foolish hearts were darkened in Isaiah a passage that you could point towards is let me read it for you

Standby while I pull it up one quick question of clarification there. Would we say that this is community or Life and a culture without God or under the wrath of God, right?

Like it is that this is a consequence That's that's my position. These are the consequences of suppressing the truth

Because this foolish heart being darkened in Isaiah 5 20 and 21. This is a woe pronounced

There's a woe woe to those who call evil good and good evil who put darkness for light

This this is and light for darkness. This is the the concept. This is the woe that's being pronounced upon them

Yes, it's definitely still God's World. Yes, and and so it's really not life without God It's when

Michael as you had said from their perspective their own self Eclipses the knowledge of God then you have that lack of thankfulness and you have you're under the wrath of God God has given them over to the natural consequences of of a debased

Mind and and you know, some of us as Christians are like, well, yeah I mean, that's that's what happens when you live like that and and when someone has suicidal tendencies as Christians our first our first instinct is usually its compassion you know, it's you say oh, you know, that's there's there's something new certain seriously wrong and and I think what we're trying to Communicate is that sin?

Needs to be called out Because there is a solution to that.

It's you find you find it in the mercy grace

Forgiveness and cleansing in Christ. So these kinds of verses should make you flee

To the person of Christ and his finished work. That's where you have not just salvation in the in the general sense

You have truly being saved from your self Yeah, so we were discussing prior about hardening and mercy and I think that's a great jumping point to talk about Hardening and mercy upon the same vessel.

I just said different times Yes, the wrath of God we see for those who are suppressing the truth and unrighteousness and they're exchanging the the glory of the

Creator for for idolatry idolatry of the self included in that idea God is

Expressing his wrath in turning people over to these mindsets This does not mean however that somebody who is

Experiencing the wrath of God because of their sins and they're going headlong Into all manner of things that are deserving of death.

It does not mean that there is no hope for them Amen, I mean the list that we read here in Romans 1

That those who practice them Know that they're deserving of death and then approve of others who practice them

This is very similar to the list that Paul uses in the letter to the Corinthians such were some of you

Such were some of you the wrath of God was abiding upon them and yet in the midst of that We see the mercy of God the grace of God reaching down Pulling them out of the fire

Transforming them saving them Paul himself was a murderer. Yeah, he was a murderer and Yet God saved him the chief of sinners.

And so we see that there is there is hope for those Who are given over to these mindsets and again, the hope is not that We might find the right formula to say to them

Oh, yeah, but that we have we can appeal to God himself who is free to Show mercy where he will have mercy

Christ is the only hope right? So outside of the gospel Psychoanalysis and you know going to see a specialist who's secular.

What do they have to offer? more of the same That's the particular challenge, isn't it?

Because if if somebody is focused upon the self very often the the modern psychoanalysis says let's focus more on the self

Exactly, right? That's that's not going to that's not going to help somebody by having more and more obsessed with the self

That's not going to help somebody be delivered from These these very sinful tendencies.

I think there's an idea of okay Suicide is somebody crying out for help or attempted suicides or people crying out for help

We hear that language. Yeah, I Understand that I understand that to a point there obviously are very desperate

Obviously, they are in a lot of hurt and there's a lot of problems there. However, suicide is not victimhood.

It's villainy It's a sin against God is sin against the self. It's a grave It's a grave grave sin and do we see that it is there is need for help out?

Well, absolutely, but what is the help the help is that this person needs a savior? Yeah, I think you know in our

Society when you talk about people calling out for help and how are we defining it? most of the young people that I know are on antidepressants

They're on some type of medication and the reason they give us anxiety

You know some of the thoughts of suicide is that well, I just I need something to help me

But what are they what are they doing? They're suppressing that internal witness and that's the world's answer is well, we'll help you get rid of that voice

What we'll dumb it down for you. So you don't feel anything Take the edge off and we had talked about this before I had read a verse from Proverbs 31 and it's it's a mother talking to her son who's to be king one day and it says

You know, do not give your strength to women know your ways to those which Destroys Kings it is not for Kings.

Oh, let me know. It is not for Kings to drink wine nor princes intoxicating drink lest they drink and forget the law and pervert the justice of all the afflicted and Then they keep going

Give strong drink to him was perishing and wine to those who are bitter of heart Let him drink and forget his poverty and remember his misery no more

But it doesn't does nothing to fix the problem It's just people have these problems and their answers will give me something for it.

Let me take this wine Let me do this thing. Let me just eat drink and be merry because tomorrow we die. So it's all pointless

You've got those two ditches. You've got I'm old. Let's just in it. Well, we've got well, then I'll live it up Hmm And those are

I think the the world's solution to getting rid of that internal witness and it doesn't just come in the form of Substances, right?

Like here's 12 more rules for life More than the original 12, right? Like we're talking about psychoanalysis

I figured we'd have to throw him in there at some point But then I mean that's a form of like secular legalism not not to the the levels that we see in the broader society but it is taking taking on this either routine or these laws to give to oneself in order to build oneself up and again the

Center of all those things is itself like you're talking about. Yeah Yeah, this I thought about Jordan Peterson at the day preaching through acts and I got to Peter Visiting Lida and there was a man there and Nia's who had been lame for eight years and he says to him

Aeneas Jesus the Christ heals you rise and make your bed.

I thought I'm thinking Jordan Peterson's favorite verse right here But if you ever if you ever heard him if you've ever heard his blasphemous readings of Scripture interpretations

He'd look at that and see all kinds of restorative wonders in the man Getting up taking responsibility for himself making his bed and so on and totally miss the

Savior. Oh, yeah Yeah, cuz he's just looking at the Jungian archetype, right? Exactly just characters.

So let's let's think a little bit about Suicide like patricide like fratricide homicide homicide is murder now

What does Jesus say is at the heart of? Murder, here's what the

Mosaic Covenant says thou shalt not murder Yes, and amen But Christ comes as one greater than Moses and he comes and he fulfills the law

So it's it's more there's something superior in the righteousness of Christ.

There's something greater and more at heart More penetrating in the New Covenant than in the old.

So what does he say is at the heart of? murder Hatred hatred.

That's right. He gives examples right about what you say with your Mouth why is that because out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, right?

So let's apply this to Suicide and Jesus says at the heart of murder is hatred.

So what is it the heart of? Self murder is what? Self -hatred right?

How would that manifest? Based on the way that Jesus handles it on what you say

About yourself and to yourself and this is not the psychoanalysis thing about you should only speak positively

Or the charismatic speak positive things into existence and so on and so forth. But let's just think about this.

What does Jesus say? to The Pharisees in John chapter 8 about the nature of the devil.

He was a murderer from the beginning Murderer from the beginning you are of your father the devil and the desires of your father you want to do

He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth. You see how

Jesus instantly connects murder with deceit Because there is no truth in him when he speaks a lie

He speaks from his own resources where he is a liar and the father of it coming back to what is at the heart?

Of murder hatred. How does it exhibit what we say now? Please listen to this somebody who is dealing with suicide suicidal thoughts

What are you saying to yourself? What are you saying to yourself that is? Affirming this and driving yourself to it

Remember that the Satan is as a lion roaming to and fro seeking whom he may devour and just and this destruction

The original destruction of the garden came by lies Came by lies what thing what things are being said?

What are you saying about yourself? If it's driving you to Towards suicide.

It's not what God's saying about you. It's not what's God saying you are saying something that is false

So would we say that there's no neutrality in the contents either? Where yes, because because we're talking about Romans 1 in the context of Romans 1 we're suppressing the truth

That doesn't mean that there's nothing else There that means we're being filled up by something else and it says later on that we swallowed the lie

Yeah, so if we're suppressing the truth, we're swallowing lies if we're not suppressing the truth, we're We're getting rid of lies where we're dispelling those in our in our minds and preaching to ourselves true things instead of lies, right?

Correct, and I think and I've noticed now We're gonna bring up another topic here kind of fold it in because I think that very often

I think Christians may understand though they lament and they pray for families whose there's a father.

There's a mother. There's a child Who was lost and obviously a rebellion against God and then they commit suicide and we all just grieve but then there's grieving when somebody who professes

Christ somebody who is in the church who is a Christian brother or sister and then they

Commit suicide that person commits suicide and now on top of grief. We have all kinds of extra

Anxious questions, don't we? Oh, yeah. Yeah, and when we're thinking about that I wish I just want to bring in James 3 the same thing that we talked about from John chapter 8, but James chapter 3 speaking about the tongue

Right verse 8 says no man James chapter 3 verse 8. No man can tame the tongue It is unruly evil full of deadly poison with it

We bless our God and Father and with it we curse men who have been made in the similitude of God in the image of God Verse 10 out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing my brethren

My brethren these things ought not to be so so we have this situation where Somebody who is who's blessing

God and saying things about God's holiness and his righteousness His his immensity, you know, what a glorious God what a perfect word the scriptures

We all know that Jesus Christ is the only Savior Saying all sorts of wonderful things about God and then yet in the case of the self cursing the self who's been made in the image of God just unleashing all manner of vitriol against the self and sometimes this is given a spiritual facade of spiritual sheen to it because after all shouldn't we exalt

God and Show him as holy and good and perfect and that just shows us how sinful we are

And how lowly we are and how we can never measure up and then the person uses this model to completely curse the self while blessing

God my brethren These things ought not to be so I'm telling you from experience

When I've had my bouts with suicidal thoughts That is what's going on.

Can't ever measure up won't ever be able to succeed Can't do enough. I mean based on God's standards.

Look how holy he is. Look how perfect he is There's just no possible way. I can ever be of any kind of use.

I'm always going to get it wrong I'm always gonna lead people astray never going to measure up That's my brethren.

So just just a thought I'm gonna turn over to David But what is this blessing of God are we not to make much of the

Savior? Isn't he a good Savior? Isn't he bigger than I am? There's a deception that I'm living with There's a mind trap that I'm in if I think my sin is so big

That there's there's no hope. It's the weight of being that image bearer, right? Of course, of course, but the the resulting

Conclusion is not the ending of self It's the turning to the one who bears that image rightly not to think awfully low thoughts about myself

That's not holiness right thinking less of myself and more of God. That's That's that's holiness.

There's true godliness there we we should say About ourselves what the

Bible says about ourselves. Amen. We should agree with what God has already said about who we are

That is neither Debasing ourselves in a way that God has not done and that is not exalting ourselves and in a way that the

Bible also speaks against When we call ourselves image bearers

That's agreeing with what the Bible says. There is a nobility there

There's honor there and that's why sin is so horrible because of what it does to the image of God and we can say we can agree with what the

Bible says about how we are redeemed About how we had the old heart taken away in a new heart has been put in its place how we are a new creation and we can rejoice

That yes, this is what I once was But thanks be to God I am

NOT So when we you had said before that too much focus on the self

Eclipses God and and takes those thoughts that are already there that we all all have had

And there there are some they're more susceptible to it. We talked about some of those people in history earlier

Charles Spurgeon William Cooper There are some people that are a little more susceptible to that and it can too much focus on the self can

Exacerbate that and make those even even more powerful. But what is the solution?

It's the same for all of us. It is to agree with what the Bible says about who you are

Your need for Christ and then you agree with what the Bible says. This is who I am

Now in Christ and there is a there is a triumph there.

There's a joy. There's a strength there walking by faith not by sight

I'm thinking back to your what you're talking about elevating of self if we're thinking that our unrighteousness

Can outdo the righteousness of God? Are we not elevating the creatureliness to a place that ought not to be as and like in Romans 1 in a different way?

It's a it's kind of a backdoor way of doing it But it pushes me back to segments of the podcast cultish who who've gone over Crowley and the brag was the most wicked man on Earth right and to a certain degree when you're having those thoughts you're thinking you can out wicked

God's righteousness And kind of replace that and bring the creaturely up to where it ought not to be

Yeah, where you're and it can be you're so in the throes of sin. There's just no way out

The consequences and the circumstances because of my sin are things that I can't possibly live through or continue on There can be other thoughts of Yeah, this is just too overwhelming

I'm just never going to be able to make it through and so on but all of these things are An exaltation of the self over and against the glory of God who spoke everything into existence

It gave us breath to breathe said to the oceans thus far. No further said to the mountains Here's where you are how high you're going to be when we don't think enough of God We tend to think way too much of our own sin and suffering

But you think of there's two thoughts one is we haven't seen the end yet, what are you doing?

Turning off the movie in the middle, you know, why would you do that? We've read the reviews.

We've been promised a wonderful ending See the whole thing through but the

You think about see first John chapter 3 talks about Cain murdering Abel This is an example of someone who does not love murder is an expression of hatred

Right in Hebrews chapter 12, it speaks of the blood of Abel crying out from the ground We read about that also in Genesis chapter 4 the blood of Abel crying out from the ground

What is the blood crying the blood is crying. Is there any justice? Right, and it how can these things be?

How does how can this possibly be allowed to continue? That's what the blood is crying from the ground

This is very often the cry of the person who is contemplating suicide, how can this be how can this be right?

How could this be allowed to continue on? there's a great cry of injustice coming from the heart a sense that things are not right and They need to be set right, but I don't know how they possibly could be set right

That is the same cry as the blood of Abel, but when we come to Hebrews chapter 12

If we come to Christ What does it say verse 22 says but you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the

Living God the heavenly Jerusalem to an innumerable company of angels to the

General Assembly and Church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven to God the judge of all to the spirits of just men made perfect to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant and to the blood of Sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

It's a genuine cry Abel's blood was a genuine cry Justice how can these things be?

How can this be settled and solved a great cry from Abel, but the blood of Jesus speaks better things he says

Here is justice. Here is satisfaction. Here are things made right when we look at the cross

When we look at the cross of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God who bore on the cross not only our transgressions

But also our sicknesses and also our sorrows Well, it makes me think of you talked about what we say to ourselves the true things are false things right if you're speaking false to yourself and then you amplify that in a culture that speaks nothing but false things and We read some statistics about suicide and it being mostly male or in different things like that But I don't it's in it's in both sexes and it's not a surprise

Because our culture says woman you're not worth anything unless you're climbing a corporate ladder

Man, we have no use for you. You're toxic. You're not good in the workplace. You're not good at home so there's no place for you like it's just constant lies from anywhere you go and then you have your

Conscience, you know accusing you of sin. And so for me one of the encouragements is

Philippians 4 8 just like what you were saying About where where does our hope lie?

What are we thinking? What are we saying? And if Philippians says this finally brothers, whatever is true

Whatever is honorable. Whatever is just whatever is pure. Whatever is lovely. Whatever is commendable if there is any excellence

There's anything worthy of praise Think about these things and that encompasses

So much There are beautiful things in the world that we could meditate on there are true things in the world there are good things and then on top of that God's Word and the blessing of salvation and the true things that he has said and that he has done and the bigness of his

Death on the cross to pay for our sins that we're struggling with it's so much

Bigger than the sins that we're struggling with but we have to save them. We have to preach them to ourselves

Chris you had talked about that. This culture is is filled with lies and You had talked about how they tell women one thing

They're only worthwhile if you fill the masculine role men You're not really worthwhile at home or anywhere and I thought immediately unless they're becoming women then they're very valuable

Killing yourself. Yeah, it it is the major push that that I hear for What they call gender affirming care for young transgender kids is if you don't

Give them the care this medical care this transition the surgery and hormones that they need they'll kill themselves

So we have to keep telling them the lies so that they don't kill themselves their self -identity is so fragile that they don't have the constant reinforcement from all of you and all society and all of media and Government and there's and and everyone in their school and everyone on on the book of face or whatever social media is is current now

Then then they're gonna kill themselves if your self -identity is that fragile the problem isn't with everybody else

But they tell us we have to keep giving them the lie that we all know is alive But if we don't we don't keep lying to them, then they will kill themselves

And what we've just said is that no you call it out You call sin sin you call it what it is and then you feast on truth who you are as a creation of God who you are as an image bearer and who you are in Christ and who

Christ makes you when you are united to him There's your solution not more surgery or hormones or whatever other lie you want to want to feed into them because I Think of someone right now who was a that was the face of the the transgender movement in a particular airline and They had not just everybody telling them how great they were

But they had the entire company telling them how great they were. They still killed themselves

It's tragic. It's horrible because they fed them lies and that whole line of argumentation

It just is a good example of the way in which Jesus identifies the the devil as a murderer slash liar these things go together because the whole approach of Helping people down that path of transitioning as they call it is actually

Helping them step by step kill themselves when you're cutting parts of yourself off and taking body destroying substances those are steps towards suicide and It is in concert with a whole brainwashing

Approach of saying first of all, there's a denial of God is just assumed but The utter rejection of who

God made you to be so I'm going if I'm a man and transitioning to a woman I'm killing myself by saying

I'm not a man. I'm gonna become a woman. I'm gonna cut parts off I'm going to ingest and put horrible drugs into my body

These are all the steps to suicide and by helping people down that path and saying if we don't do this

They're gonna commit suicide. No, you're actually helping them You're actually helping them. Yeah, so that makes me think of a couple things we talked at the beginning about people crying out for help or feeling like they can't talk to anybody a lot of the people who

Go through transitioning when they recount it. So they'll say doctors will tell the parents

Would you rather have a dead child or a transition child? So they're they're pushing the suicide but then the people who come out of that and Detransition they said

I needed guidance. I was confused about puberty. My body was changing.

I needed Guidance and you told me a lie So there's that and then also there's been studies done on this because I've I've heard this like people close to me will say well

You can't talk about it because they'll commit suicide if they're homosexual they're

Transitioned or whatever you can't talk about it because it'll make them suicidal if you don't accept

They did a study in one of the countries that it was either Sweden or Norway We're one of the most

Affirming countries that there is and the suicide rate stay the same because it's not that Affirmation they can't accept themselves because it's it's a lie

There's a reality you can't escape Isn't it interesting to how? We've had medically assisted suicide set up, you know conveniently before all this happened we shoved them right into a billion -dollar business of Transitioning and right into another billion -dollar business of self -assisted suicide after that I mean the the incentive structure there for everybody in the medical in quotations

Medical field on this are to get ever ever deepening and ever worsening levels of lies

You see these people see the evil of materialism when everything is fungible Yeah, yeah

Humans can be fungible and turned into money You know, that's interesting the fungibility of gender or the social construct that they like to talk about but yet we still see people who are

Not okay with being hypocrites in their mind. Not that I'm Promoting transgender or transitioning but these people at least are

Recognizing that there is something external that Demonstrates the internal truth that they're trying to escape.

It's not just a social construct. You can't have just a social construct and These people are transitioning in the same

Realm, they're mutually exclusive People are very prone to in denial of God Misinterpret the systemic oppression against their sinful ways as oh, it's the state.

Oh, it's the culture Oh, it's this or that. No the reason why you can't sin and Sin freely and do whatever you want

However, you want it and feel perfectly fine about it is because you're made in God's image and if you have any degree of Checking your spirit and frustration in your life that you can't just keep on going on in sin

And you gotta get down on both knees and thank God that he is frustrating you. Hey, man, you're self -destruction, right?

Amen Yep Well, unless anything anybody has anything to add I think we've about wrapped that up and we can move on to what we are going

To recommend for content like we usually do but we're gonna give you guys a preview

Or at least a warning that at the end of every at the end of every month Hopefully starting in September we will have a separate segment and we haven't really nailed down a name yet But you'll know it when you hear it where we will be each person will pick a book and they'll be they'll be given a month to themselves where they can present their book or content that they have consumed and the rest of the roundtable gets to interrogate or Prod and poke or whatever.

You might want to call it cross -examine if you've already read the book as well about this book Why it might be edifying why it might be something to avoid for other readers because I think there are books out there

We can all agree that for some readers thumbs up for others Hold on and we can kind of work through these and recommend them as we go along But we'll be doing that once a month and we'll let everybody give a heads up to to who's up that week and what the book might be

Hopefully ahead of time that way if you want to preview it yourself or if you want to come into it cold That's up to you, too

But just letting you know that's coming in the next next few months But Michael, how would you what would you like to recommend for content this week the attack of the hideous mutant snowmen by Bill Waterson?

Calvin Hobbes no I hope we will be reviewing and yes, that'll be my book for the month.

Okay My recommendation is Spurgeon on the

Christian life Alive in Christ is the title by Michael Reeves. It is not so much a classic biography

It does have a biographical sketch of Spurgeon's life obviously but kind of goes through the various topics on the

Christian life how Spurgeon lived how he acted what he said how he preached and taught and It was extremely edifying from beginning to end and Was very thought -provoking especially on Matters of prayer.

So it's it's part of a series of smaller Sketches that deal with the the theology of you know,

Mart Lloyd -jones or you know other Christian Leaders in the past, but this one was on on Spurgeon by Michael Reeves.

I don't think I've read a lot from him before But this was this was an excellent read

Chris, what about you? So I recently listened to a Lecture series.

I was gonna say college, but it's actually a high school class George Grant did a lectures on Modernity and he was talking about the

French Revolution and I didn't realize how much was you know tied up and there's things that lead into the

French Revolution and kind of its godless revolution compared to What our war for independence was it was really interesting to hear him talk about different figures from history and how much of that?

philosophy has carried over and Into our country how we started and what we kind of look like now how that philosophy still seems to be

Continuing so that's a George Grant Lectures on modernity the

French Revolution. All right, Andrew Throughout this summer when I had time to think about some things I started watching a series by some well -known

Church of Christ podcast on YouTube that they were having a debate with a gentleman who was a

Baptist about the what is baptism which you know what you want to dig deep into what you believe

Encounter something that goes against it that they also claim to be biblical So it was a

Very important time this summer that I got to meet with my elder and discuss some questions.

I had about you know the Ramifications of what it means to be someone who's

Church of Christ how it differs from baptistic Understandings of what believers baptism is so we get to talk about that But he also supplied me with a great book called believers baptism.

It's by Schreiner and Wright. I would recommend that now it's not about Baptist theology versus Church of Christ theology.

It's about believers baptism, which is exactly how you should approach it It's not just about one topic

It's the totality of of what believers baptism is and so been very appreciative to be reading that that's a collection of essays

Isn't it? It is it the there's an essay in there by Stephen Wellum, which is worth the price of the whole book

David how about you? I had already decided that this was the book that I was going to be bringing tonight so Well, you this is this is it.

It's by Kevin de Young Do not be true to yourself And I was thinking about that that title as we were going through our our discussion this book is

Basically a series of speeches and initially given to high school students as they were graduating. It is incredibly important To prepare your teens as they become young adults and go out into the world

Especially as they go off to college is that if that's where they're going it is to give them a Christ centered

Worldview a focus on him not frozen follow your heart not

Disney It is a it was it's a short read But it's one that I think that you should take a little bit of time with Read it yourself.

And if it's some right for you and your family, maybe some of you can hand to your teen As they exit

Exit your home and if I can say one more thing about the topic that we just discussed

Yeah, you don't focus on yourself. You focus on Christ Agree with what the

Bible says about who you are who you were and who you are now But if anyone is struggling

Anybody knows anyone who's struggling our church our elders our deacons

Really I think anybody in our congregation would be willing to talk to you, but I promise you

They're gonna be pointing you towards Christ They're not gonna be asking you to be more true to yourself

Amen. Well again on sort of the same topic JC Ryle wrote thoughts for young men and some of the statistics that we looked at before we started

We noticed suicide was particularly high in young men And we also know that destructive behavior is particularly high in young men in our current era and a lot of that can sometimes

Be due to joining the wrong gang. I like to think that men are born gang members

It's just whether you're with the righteous or the wicked gang because right here right now. I consider you all gang members

I don't know who the leader is yet. We'll have to fight that out, but we are all a part of the same gang here and Ryle actually goes in deep with that putting yourself underneath spiritual authorities in your life and Joining the right gang because in Liverpool where he was that there was rampant gang activity

Especially it being a highly immigrant city from all three Gaelic countries They would gang up and be problems throughout the city and he took a lot of young men under his wing and it is a

Very pastoral book. It's very short very to the point and and he tells you where you are to find your gang beginning

But Jesus and those who follow him and I recommend that for any young men struggling with purpose

Struggling with direction not that you are going to be given your path But he gives you principles to follow so that you may find them in your walk with Christ I know we were thankful earlier in the episode, but I don't think we can get enough thankfulness

So what do we think before this week Michael? I'm thankful for the book of Philippians Studying the stuffing out of Philippians right now for our zeni school and I came across a quote from Matthew Henry He says whatever we have the comfort of God must have the glory of and that's been rattling around in my brain

So thankful for that. Amen, Chris. I am thankful for God's Clarity when you ask for it and you ask for wisdom you ask for guidance

And he gives it it's a it's a wonderful thing grateful for the job that I have and Clarity there, you know day in and day out working providing for family sometimes like what am

I doing? You know and you're like, well, I've got children and grandchildren. I want to give an inheritance to I got to make some money

But money's not everything So grateful for God's wisdom from his word and not everything in an inheritance is money

That's true godliness with contentment is great game. It's great. Amen I'm faithful to God for some series of events.

My mother passed away in September of 2020 my daughter was born in September of 2021 in 2022 in September I was

Diagnosed with appendicitis and spent a couple days in the hospital not having contact with many people

My daughter's turning to that time. I missed her birthday I'm thankful to God that he has preserved me to this point to be able to celebrate with my family the birth of my daughter my seven year gap between my middle and what we thought was going to be our last child and now

The blessing that God has given us another seven years in between that so life is beautiful.

It's precious and thank God for it Amen, David. I am thankful for my high school crew

One of them texted me on Sunday and Said Dave.

Oh, we're sorry. We missed your birthday and It's like it's it's okay.

You guys are busy. It's it's alright. Thanks for the text. No problem we have this group text that that goes on and these are some of these guys

I've known since first grade and all of them are godly husbands and fathers and And they are examples to me they wanted to go out and and these guys are executives,

I mean they're very important people I'm the I'm the blue -collar one of the bunch, but it's fun to Be with these guys because you would never know like how successful they are and they're just good

Men and I am thankful for their friendship. I'm thankful for their example and we we went out and had a had a meal and it was just the five of us around and I am

I'm thankful to God that they were good examples to me in Junior high and high school and they planted some seeds that took a while to grow to fruition

But I am thankful that God used them in my life and I'm thankful that despite the distance and time and years and changes in family and jobs that we have a

Friendship that's built on something that is eternal and we'll always have it. Amen again

I'm thankful for the the generosity of the church Heather and I have gone through a weird

Situation over the past couple weeks and the church has been extremely generous to us and every way you could imagine

And it just shows me their loving heart for the brethren and we're overwhelmed

By that because we have not known it in such a way before and so when you get that it's different The world seems different now

Where's this unity and all the churches before and you kind of have that like mindset? But it's like that's not how you need to think about it but just being thankful for when you have it now is where we've come to and just an amazement of God's mercy upon us and protection and provision and situations where it's completely out of our control and We don't know how to even yet process it how to take it in So we're thankful for his

Generosity through his Saints and we hope that all the fruit is born here and it is

Abundant and it is something we can look back on and point at and be joyous with one another about how generous

He has been through his Saints And that wraps it up for today