Vetting Influencers in a Post 2020 World

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Welcome to the Conversations That Matter podcast. I'm your host, John Harris. We're gonna examine a clip today from a

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John Piper sermon on Hebrews 3. Kevin D. Young posted this last week and it caused quite a stir on social media and I decided not to enter the fray at that point because I felt like a foundation needed to be laid to say what

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I wanted to say. And I wanna do that now, I wanna lay that foundation because I am in the minority of people who

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I think were critical about this. And thought maybe this isn't the best way to approach

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Hebrews 3. I'm convinced it's not the best way. I actually think that this can do some damage. And I think that it reflects a kind of preaching that many of us have become accustomed to.

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And for those with sensitive consciences and with struggles, maybe with feeling secure and in your salvation, this kind of thing can be particularly hard to listen to.

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And I was one of those people at one time. And so I think because of that, I have a special heart to show you why

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I think this is off and to give you what I think Hebrews is trying to say, the author of Hebrews in Hebrews 3 and throughout the book, and to contrast that with what

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John Piper's trying to say and maybe give you a little bit of encouragement here. So we'll set it up, but I want you to listen to the clip first so you can hear what

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John Piper said. And then we will talk about all the things that I just mentioned, justification and assurance and keeping the law and sanctification, all of these things that Christians really should understand and know about.

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So let's start with the clip. Here's John Piper. And this was posted, like I said, about a week ago.

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Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart leading you to fall away from the living

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God. I preach that to my people. You can fall away from the living

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God. No punches pulled. Of course, if you're elect, you won't.

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But sitting there in this room right now, professing believer, you can fall away from the living God. John Piper can fall away from the living

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God. If I make shipwreck of my faith, I'm a goner. That's the way the New Testament sounds and it's right.

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And this overplay of justification and this overplay of security gives a tone to a church that is not quite right.

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Okay, there you go. Way to go, Kevin. But I'm continuing to read now

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Hebrews 3, 13. Exhort one another every day as long as it is called today that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

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For we have come, listen to this, the tense of these verbs. We have come to share in Christ.

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If indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end, perseverance is the evidence of regeneration.

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So that's true of daily exhortation. And it's true of weekly preaching.

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Somebody asked me at the beginning of my ministry, when are you gonna preach a salvation sermon? And give an invitation at the end.

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I said, every sermon I preach is a salvation sermon. Meaning I keep people saved every

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Sunday. Nobody's getting to heaven without the word of God. I'm a means of getting people to heaven.

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They get to heaven by hearing the word of God and believing it week after week after week. They have to be stirred up not to make shipwreck of their faith, not to have an evil heart of unbelief.

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Every Sunday is a salvation sermon, if it's a faithful sermon. All right, well, there you have it.

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I wanna talk about what you just heard before we get into the text and lay the foundation that I was talking about.

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Piper said that you can fall away, all right? You can fall away. So this potential exists for everyone in that room.

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And the reason I say everyone in that room is because he applies it to himself, which is something, by the way, you don't see the author of Hebrews doing.

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And I would ask you, do you see any of the apostles doing this? Do they say, you know, I can fall away. Does Paul say that?

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Does Peter say that? But John Piper wants you to know that there's this potential that's out there.

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And that's very scary, obviously. Like there's this potential that you could be someone who thinks you're saved and you're not.

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And if you're elect, you won't, he says. But then he says, it's confusing because then he says, you know, but I could do this.

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And he makes it so broad that, you know, everyone in this room. So I think that is a bit confusing for people, but I think in Piper's theology, this somewhat makes sense.

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He has a view of final justification that from Andrew Fuller that I think is probably motivating why he says what he says here.

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But he says that there's this problem in the church of overplaying justification and security, which

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I would ask you whether you think, do you really believe it's an overplay of justification? Justification and security are all over scripture.

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They're even in the book of Hebrews. Is it an overplay or is it a misapplication?

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There is misapplications going on where people are assumed to be justified that aren't or secure that aren't because they made a decision at some point, but not because they trusted in Christ.

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So there's incorrect theology, but an overplay of justification itself. And he talks about how he, through his preaching, and his preaching, presumably here, even the law, even so he's not giving a salvation, like he's not giving a call, an altar call type deal.

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He's not giving people the gospel and asking for a response.

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He's just preaching the law. He's preaching obedience and that kind of thing. That is keeping people saved, he says.

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Keeping people saved. And I think he's right about perseverance, like the evidence that you are in Christ from the standpoint of the fruit that we bear, not the root of our condition, but the fruit that exemplifies our condition is that we're walking with him.

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Not perfectly, it's a direction. It means that we are being, that he is at work in our lives and we will come to a final state of glorification and we will be in his presence at some point.

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But it is not obviously perfection. And Piper would agree with me there.

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So I think he's right about this, that if you are justified, you will persevere.

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But he thinks that preaching, and preaching even exhorting the law and so forth, that these are, that this is a means by which people will remain saved.

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So this is very, I think, disheartening for people.

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I know I was one of those people at one time. You would hear this and then you'd say, okay, I need to bear fruit.

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I need to, yeah, and I need to be exhorted. I need to hear more of this. I mean, this is a motivation for continuing to listen to this kind of preaching, right?

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Like I need to hear it because that's what's keeping me in. And then if you mess up at some point, then you feel like, oh no,

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I sinned. Am I even saved? I don't know, because what's the threshold? We haven't really been told. Is it okay if like 90 % of the time

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I'm not sinning, but that 10%, is that, it's like, where's the line exactly, right? I would suggest to you,

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I think there is a line in Hebrews, in Hebrews 3. I think it's talking about apostasy. That's what John Calvin says too, by the way.

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I consulted with him about this. And I think that you have to understand, for Hebrews especially, you have to understand what the

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Old Testament says. You have to understand what Hebrews is trying to say, the purpose of Hebrews. And I think when all of that is understood,

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I think what you'll find is that Hebrews 3 is actually not making the separation that John Piper is making here.

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John Piper is making a separation between believers that there's those who believe and will persevere through obedience.

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And there are those who presumably think they believe and will not obey and therefore will not persevere.

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They will fly off the handle. And the mechanism for, and this applies to presumably everyone who's in that room and Piper himself.

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So the two groups of people are really those who are gonna work hard and live up to a certain standard and produce these works that are consistent with salvation and those then who don't do that.

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And they don't get the benefit from this mechanism of preaching that will then encourage them to live a holy life.

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Now, it's confusing for some, and I can already hear the objections that like, oh no, Piper said things that he said, if you're elect, that you won't.

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That's true, he did say that. That's why I think it's confusing and it's not great preaching, to be honest with you.

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Because there are these safety things that he'll say, these orthodox statements that will, then that's the thing that if you wanna focus on that, you focus on that.

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But then they don't really jive with the other things he said. It's a universal statement that includes him apparently that anyone can fall out of this.

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And they need this stirring up from him apparently, from his preaching.

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And that's a salvation sermon, this law. So the law gospel distinction is just basically flattened.

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And it creates all kinds of confusion. That's my assessment of the clip you heard. Now let's talk about Hebrews a little bit.

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I prepared this, I wanted to just give you a little bit of, and this is just the first few chapters of Hebrews I didn't wanna go into the whole book just for sake of time.

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I hope these all came out. It looks like, okay, it's formatted a little weird here, but you can at least read it.

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So I divided two sets of verses here in the first four chapters into law and gospel, right?

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So let us fear and let us draw near, right? Directly from Hebrews to let us, Hebrews 4 .1

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says, therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering his rest, any one of you may seem to, and then it gets cut off.

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So let me go there in my Bible. I don't know why the formatting was off. May seem to have come short of it, all right?

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And so here's some other verses though from the first, from chapter two and chapter three.

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For this reason, we must pay closer attention to what we have heard so that we do not drift away from it.

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How will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, right, Hebrews 2 .1 and 2 .3.

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Then you have 3 .3, which is a quote of Psalm 95 .8. Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as they, when they provoked me.

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That's gonna become important in a minute, the they there. Who is he talking about? What story is he talking about? Because he is talking about something else, right?

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And then 3 .12, take care brethren, that there not be in any of you an evil unbelieving heart that falls away from the living

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God. So that's what you heard John Piper say. So I'm putting this in the category of let us fear. Like these are verses that there's a scariness to them, like we don't want to be someone who drifts away.

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We don't wanna be someone who has a hardened heart or has an unbelieving heart and falls away.

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So here's some verses from the same chapters, chapter two, three, and four.

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And this is in the category of let us draw near. So this is gospel related, okay. Chapter two, verses nine through 10.

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Jesus, because of the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God, he might taste death for everyone, for it was fitting for him, for whom are all things and through whom are all things, to bring in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings.

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Here's another one, chapter three, verse one. Therefore, holy brethren partakers of a heavenly calling considered

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Jesus the apostle and high priest of our confession. This one, is this 3 .16

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or 2 .16? I think this might be. No, it's 2 .16, so I have it out of sequence. For assuredly, he does not give help to angels, but he gives help to the descendants of Abraham.

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Therefore, he had to be made, sorry, like his brethren in all things, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

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And 4 .16, therefore, let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

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So the same chapters, you have these two themes, basically. Now you could divide it into other sub themes, but you have a let us fear, you have law, you have danger, watch out, and then you have gospel.

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You have, look, Jesus is the one that actually does this work.

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He is through him all things. He's gonna bring many sons to glory.

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He's the perfect author of their salvation through his suffering, right? It's focused on his work, and we can draw near with confidence to the throne of grace.

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So we don't have to, so if you feel like, oh no, like I could just any minute fly off the handle, and oh no, like what if I don't maintain this salvation somehow?

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There, like that actually is the lack of confidence. That is against confidence, right? But we should have confidence, right?

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So how do you rectify these things? And I guess the last thing I'll show, so I don't know, what do

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I wanna show next? So just the relationship of faith obedience. I think we'll get there in a moment, because a lot of this has to do with the passage that we were just, that Piper was talking about.

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So let's just briefly, let me just say this about Hebrews. Hebrews was written sometime when the temple sacrifices were still going on, but before 70

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AD, before Rome came in and leveled the place, and this was a time when you had a great persecution as well, okay?

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So you see these clues throughout the text of the book of Hebrews. And the author of Hebrews, we don't know exactly who it is.

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A lot of people think it's Paul, but whoever it is, they are writing to presumably, and this is from the context of the whole book, you see this, people who knew well the

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Jewish scriptures and who were part of that tradition. And there seems to be at least two groups, if not three, well, really there are three,

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I think, because you do have sections that talk about those who, they're unbelievers, and it's just obvious that they are unbelievers without a

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Jewish background at all. And then there are those who have a Jewish background of some kind, but they have not actually placed their faith in Christ for their salvation.

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And then you have those who are Christians who have placed their faith in Christ. And this, I think if you keep these audiences in mind and realize that this is this transitional period in which you have persecution and you have great incentives to deny

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Christ, and some people did do that, and then the book of Hebrews makes a lot more sense.

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There's a lot of, even the hall of faith, right? This is inspiring believers that you have a precedent before you of people who did not deny the faith.

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You stood firm and you ought to do that too. Don't apostatize, right? And that's really what Hebrews is, the author of Hebrews is trying to combat is apostasy and denying

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Christ. And this is something that happened throughout Israel's history. And so the main theme of Hebrews is

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Jesus is better. Don't go back to your previous ways. Even if it will help you escape persecution, don't go back to the blood of bulls and goats and the

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Levitical priesthood. You have a better priest, you have a better sacrifice. You have all of the things that Christ brings are so much better.

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And that's the point of the book of Hebrews. And so if you don't understand the book of Leviticus, if you don't understand some of the

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Old Testament passages that are referenced, it's hard to get a grasp on Hebrews. And if you don't understand the context, you don't understand that it's not like some of the other letters, the

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Pauline letters that are to churches or to specifically believers.

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Like this book does have Jewish people. So it's in a church setting, but you do have people that have been attracted to Christianity, perhaps even they've been baptized and they're taking communion and these kinds of things.

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But there are those who do not know Christ and that becomes obvious in the context of the book.

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And that will help, I think, make sense of it as well. So let's see, what should you do next?

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Let's read Hebrews 3, which is the text that John Piper was talking through.

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Hebrews 3, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider

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Jesus the apostle and high priest of our confession. He was faithful to him who appointed him as Moses also was in all his house.

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For he had been counted worthy of more glory than Moses by just so much as the builder of the house has more honor than the house.

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For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God. Now Moses was faithful in all his house as a servant for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later, but Christ was faithful as a son over his house, whose house we are if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

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Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says, today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as when they provoked me as in the day of the trial in the wilderness where your fathers tried me by testing me and saw my works for 40 years.

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Therefore, I was angry with this generation and said, they always go astray in their heart. And they did not know my ways as I swore in my wrath.

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They shall not enter my rest. Take care brethren that there not be any one of you an evil unbelieving heart that falls away from the living

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God, but encourage one another day after day as long as it is called today so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

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For as we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginnings of our assurance firm until the end while it is said, today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as when they provoked me or who provoked him when they had heard indeed did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses and with whom was he angry for 40 years.

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Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness and to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest but to those who were disobedient.

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So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief, bookmark that.

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Verse 19, that's the last verse, because of unbelief it says. Now, the beginning of the next chapter, I'm just gonna read for you the first three verses.

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Therefore, let us fear if a promise remains of entering his rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it for indeed we have good news preached to us just as they also, but the word they heard did not profit them because it was not united by faith in those who heard.

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Huh, that's interesting. Verse three, for we who have believed enter that rest just as he has said, as I swore in my wrath, they shall not enter my rest.

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All those works were finished from the foundation of the world. What's the issue here? What does the author of Hebrews say the issue is?

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Is it that they did not upkeep a certain level of obedience and therefore they drifted?

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You know, they had this level of obedience and they just lost it one day and there it goes.

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You know, and they could legitimately be in the truth, in the faith, so to speak, and then they lose it one day.

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No, it's not saying that. It's saying, and I'll just reiterate here, verse 19, they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

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Four, two, it did not profit them because it was not united by faith in those who heard.

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Four, three, for we who have believed enter that rest. So what's the dividing line here? What, who are the two groups?

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It's those who have faith and those who don't. That's what's, now, obviously those who have faith are going to bear fruit.

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They're going to have, there's going to be actions consistent with that faith in time, but that's not the basis for the faith.

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That doesn't keep them, those things are just results. Those are, that's the fruit of the faith. And that's why he says things like, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

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So the boast of our hope, what's the hope? Go back to verse three, for he has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses.

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By so, that's the hope is Christ. So if you have a hope in Christ, Christ was faithful as a son over his house.

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This figure that was greater than Moses, if you have hope in him and that hope, that's the dividing line, that if that hope remains, then that's legitimate faith.

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That's legitimate belief. And then he says, of course, we have become partakers of Christ if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end.

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So again, it's, the faith is consistent. The faith remains, the faith is there.

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If you don't have faith, if you deny what you say you affirmed, which is the context again, people who made a profession and then persecution comes, they deny it.

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That's what's called apostasy. And you have to understand the story that's being referenced here.

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This is Meribah in Exodus 17. And here's what it says.

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Then all the congregation of the sons of Israel journeyed by stages from the wilderness of sin, according to the command of the

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Lord and camped at Rephidim. And there was no water for the people to drink. And therefore the people quarreled with Moses and said, give us water that we may drink.

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Moses said, why do you quarrel with me? Why do you test the Lord? But the people thirsted there for water and they grumbled against Moses and said, why now have you brought us out of Egypt to kill us and our children and our livestock with thirst?

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So Moses cried out to the Lord saying, what shall I do to this people? A little more and they will stone me. Then the

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Lord said to Moses, pass before the people and take with you some of the elders of Israel and take in your hand your staff, which you struck the

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Nile and go. Behold, I will stand before you there on the rock at Horeb and you shall strike the rock and the water will come out of it that the people may drink.

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And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel. They named the place Massa and Meribah because of the quarrel of the sons of Israel because they tested the

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Lord saying, is this the Lord among us or not? All right, so this is one of the things the author of Hebrews does quite a bit.

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He draws on these Old Testament examples as illustrations of the kinds of things that they were encountering in their lives at that point.

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And he makes spiritual points based off of these things, obviously. So if you understand the message that is being communicated through Moses there, these are people essentially who are denying

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God. They are attacking his anointed or about to, like literally gonna kill him.

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And they do not have what? Faith. They don't have faith in God.

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And that's what the author of Hebrews is saying here is that if you do not have faith, then that's what marks that you're in trouble.

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So if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as when they provoked me. So if you have faith, if you do not harden your heart, then you are going to enter into his rest.

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And what's his rest? Well, chapter four talks all about this. It's not entering the promised land in a physical sense.

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It is salvation. It is the forgiveness of sins in Christ. It is this, and he parallels this with the

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Sabbath rest because there's types, there's shadows from the Old Testament. And he's taking these types and these shadows.

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And he's saying, this is the fulfillment of those things. That's what this was talking about. That's what this thing pointed to, these types and shadows.

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So you have to understand the parallelism here. So it's talking about apostasy. It's talking about unbelief.

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That's what's going on here in the context of the passage. This isn't a pattern of sin a believer has that they hate and they're working against and they have faith and they don't like their sin.

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Just like Paul had that, right? Like he had a sin in his life that he was working against and that is the sanctification process.

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Okay, eternal security in Hebrews. I just wanted to give you some verses here too, just to kind of give you, just to let you know that the author of Hebrews says a lot of things that I think are of great encouragement.

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Not, I'm not saying that Hebrews 3 specifically, Hebrews 3 does have warnings in it.

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I'm not gonna minimize that. But the whole thrust of the author of Hebrews is that Christ is greater.

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And he's greater in the sense of giving confidence to believers as well. So let me read you a few of these things.

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Hebrews 6, 19 through 20, this hope that we have as an anchor of the soul. Wow, anchor of the soul, a hope of both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

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Oh man, that's pretty, sounds pretty secure, doesn't it? I mean, he was greater priest, he's advocating for us.

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And this hope that you have is an anchor of the soul. Some of you need that. Some of you need an anchor for your soul after hearing what

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Piper said. Hebrews 7, 25, therefore he is able to save forever those who draw near to God through him since he always lives to make intercession for them.

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And if Christ is always interceding for you, I mean, and you're justified in him, you're not gonna fall away, guys.

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That would mean Christ is the one that's, Christ would have to stop making intercessions for you.

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And that's something that he's always going to do. Hebrews 9, 12 says, and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, he entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

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One time for all paid in full. There's nothing left to be paid.

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There's nothing left to be added to what Christ has done. That's part of, that's Hebrews 9, is try to communicate this, that the sacrificial system just went on and on and on.

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Christ is the final sacrifice. Hebrews 10, 14, for by one offering, he is perfected for all time, those who are sanctified for all time.

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The past, present, future, all time. One offering. And then

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Hebrews 13, 5, make sure that your character is free from the love of money, being content with what you have.

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For he himself has said, I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you. Wow, so if Christ is never gonna desert you or forsake you, if he's advocating as a high priest for you, making intercession for you always, then what is there to be insecure about?

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What is there to be worried about? If you sin, like why would he be making the intercession?

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Because if you sin, you need an intercession, right? Christ is making intercession for you. That should be an encouragement for you.

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And the author of Hebrews gives this to those who place their faith in Christ. And that's really the key thing is, and that's the whole thrust of the book of Hebrews.

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Are you placing your faith in Christ or in this sacrificial system that can't save you?

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If you get to like Hebrews 6, where it says like,

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I'm not gonna get deep into this, but it says, this is the, I don't know what,

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I'm kind of curious what Piper would say about this passage. I think I know, but for in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the

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Holy Spirit and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance since they again crucify to themselves the son of God and put him to open shame.

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For ground that drinks the rain, which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God.

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But if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed and it ends up being burned.

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Now, this is a reference to, again, you're talking to Hebrews, Jewish people here,

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Jewish believers, a mix of Jewish believers and those who are converting out of Judaism, but maybe they, in this case, this tense, this section especially, they haven't actually,

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I don't think become saved. If they have no fruit, and they, in this case, they re -sacrifice, it says, the son of God, then there's no hope, it says.

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Now, this is a scary thing, but I want you to notice something. The next verse, but beloved, verse nine, we are convinced of better things concerning you and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.

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Saying, I'm speaking in this way, but look, I'm convinced of better things concerning you. So who's he talking about now?

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He's talking about things that accompany salvation. So there's a group of saved people, apparently. They have things that accompany salvation.

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And then there's this other group. This other group isn't saved, guys. That's what he's saying. This other group isn't saved.

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There are those who have been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have made partakers of the Holy Spirit. What does that mean? Well, there's multiple interpretations.

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It could mean that they've been baptized or they've had a baptism ceremony, at least, and they've taken communion of the

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Lord's Supper. And I've read things that say that these are euphemisms for that, so that's possible.

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And then they deny Christ. Times of persecution, they deny it.

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And he's saying, look, if you deny it and then you come back and you try to re -baptize, get baptized again and say,

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I'm gonna start over here, he's saying, well, you can't do that, that you're again crucifying the

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Son of God and putting him to open shame. I mean, it's a mockery is what it is. So I didn't wanna get too carried away in that specific passage, but I did wanna just show you there are these things that are scary, but if you actually read them in context, then you have to ask yourself, does this actually apply to believers or are these people who are fakes?

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Are these people who they had a level of, I mean, it's like the sheep and the goats, right?

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They had a level of partnership in a physical temporal sense. They're sitting there in the church.

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They attended the members class and they're maybe volunteering for a ministry or something, but they're exposed later on and they're shown to be what they really are.

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That's really what's happening here because they don't have the better things that accompany salvation. Salvation wasn't there, even if there was a certain level of commitment.

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I mean, look, it says even made partakers of the Holy Spirit. Now we know the Holy Spirit can convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment.

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I mean, this should be scary. Like you should, what this should do is it causes you to examine yourself and say like, okay, did the

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Holy Spirit do a work on me, a work of conviction? And then, but it never actually resulted in true faith in Christ.

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That should be the question. Am I trusting in Christ or not? So that's what

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I get from the book of Hebrews. And let me see, I think there was some other stuff

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I wanted to share before we end here. Let's, yeah,

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I wanna share, I don't wanna reinvent the wheel totally. So I just wanna show you something. This is a post that I saw in reaction to John Piper.

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And this is from a guy named Adriel Sanchez, who I think is a PCA pastor. And I just thought he made a really good point.

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So I'm just gonna read this. Obviously I liked it here. And he is reacting to something else

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Piper said. So Piper said, what is the root bearing poisonous and bitter fruit?

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The root bearing poisonous and bitter fruit. Oh, what did I do here? I didn't mean to search that.

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Let me go back from Deuteronomy 29. A person who, when he hears the word of this sworn covenant says,

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I shall be safe though I walk in the stubbornness of my heart, feeling, so he, this is what Piper's conclusion, feeling secure in Christ without obedience to Christ.

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So you can't feel secure in Christ unless you have obedience to Christ. That's what he takes from this.

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And this is also, I think, quoted again in Hebrews. Let me find the exact, yeah,

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Hebrews 12. So Hebrews 12, 15, if you go there. And this was like right after that video was posted too.

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So I don't know if it was in reaction to it, but Hebrews 12, 15. See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God and that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble and by it, many be defiled.

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That there be no immoral or godless person like Esau who sold his own birthright for a single meal.

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For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it with tears.

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So look at the parallel here. You have Esau. And of course, what are we really talking about here?

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We're talking about salvation. Someone who has rejected that is gonna find it's too, there will come a point when it's too late, just like Esau sold his birthright and then it was too late.

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Once he sold it, it was done. And once you leave this earth, it's done.

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So don't be like that. So see to it that no one comes short of the grace of God.

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So you wanna make sure that the people that are in your church actually know God, that they have faith in God. All right, so I want to read for you though.

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I think this is better stated than what I can say it, the way I'm saying it. Adriel Sanchez says, with all due respect to John Piper, the issue throughout

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Hebrews and in Deuteronomy 29 is apostasy. He's right about this. Calvin, by the way, says the same thing. This really helps to shed light on the warnings in Hebrews six and elsewhere throughout the book.

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Here's Deuteronomy in context. Beware lest there be among you a man or a woman or clan or tribe whose heart is turning away today from the

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Lord our God to go and serve the gods of those nations. Beware lest there be among you a root bearing poisonous and bitter fruit, one who, when he hears the words of the sworn covenant, blesses himself in his heart saying,

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I shall be safe though I walk in the stubbornness of my heart. This will lead to the sweeping away of moist and dry alike.

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The Lord will not be willing to forgive him, but rather the anger of the Lord and his jealousy will smoke against that man.

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And the curse is written in this book will settle upon him and the Lord will blot out his name from under heaven. So obviously this is someone who's rejecting the true religion and potentially ensnaring others, inspiring others to do the same, to reject the true religion and saying, you'll be safe.

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That's fine. Ironically, Hebrews was written to Jewish converts who weren't being tempted by Baal, but a return to the types and shadows of Moses.

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This was a repudiation of Christ, in tantamount to serving the gods of the nations. This means the warnings aren't about Christians struggling with a pattern of sin or general backsliding.

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Can I say that again? This means that the warnings aren't about Christians struggling with a pattern of sin or general backsliding, both of which are problems, but a total abandonment of Christ.

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That is so key. And I see this all throughout Hebrews. It's apostasy, it's abandoning, it's not having faith.

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It's, you don't have the works because you don't have the faith. There's nothing real there. That's the problem. The author of the

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Hebrews draws on this and other Old Testament passages to describe the situation contemporary to him. He cites the root causing bitterness in 1215, but note also from the

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Deuteronomy text, a heart turning away from the Lord, God's unwillingness to forgive and the language of the curses of the covenant.

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Note also how Deuteronomy 29 continues. The whole land burned out with brimstone and salt. This is actually interesting to me.

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Nothing sown and nothing growing where no plant can sprout and overthrow like that of Sodom and Gomorrah.

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All the nations will say, why is the Lord done thus to this land? What caused the heat of this great anger?

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Then people will say, it is because they abandoned the covenant of the Lord, the God of the fathers, which he made with them when he brought them out of the land of Egypt and went and served other gods and worshiped them, gods whom they had not known and whom they had not allotted to them.

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All right, so this is a consequence. They burned land of Deuteronomy 29. What the author has in mind that burned land when describing those who have heard the word continually, but not mixed it with faith.

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Thus, it bears thorns and thistles, but it is worthless and near to being cursed and its end is to be burned.

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Problem with how Piper presents the warning passage is that instead of making it a call to Christ in genuine faith, he turns it into a general warning for people within the church who are struggling with obedience.

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This crushes sensitive consciences and it points those who are truly in danger of trusting in the wrong thing to themselves instead of Christ.

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That's huge. Are you focused on yourself? Are you navel gazing? Lacking obedience, then get to work.

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The result is a vicious cycle of confidence. When we think we're obeying and despair when we're struggling.

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By the way, this makes for so much pride. The refrain throughout Hebrews is that Jesus is better precisely because it was

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Jesus these professing believers were turning their backs on. If we don't grasp this, we won't understand the warnings.

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That's the whole point of Hebrews, guys, is to trust in Christ. It's convincing you, trust in Christ, remain in Christ.

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Don't apostatize. Understand how to navigate that when it happens, when you see someone apostatize.

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It's a full rejection is what it is. It's not the believer who wants Christ. That's not what's in mind here at all.

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And what I fear is with the kinds of preaching that you heard at the beginning of this, that it's not only confusing, but it's not faithful to the actual text.

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Piper gets off, I think, kind of over his skis and starts saying things the author of Hebrews himself isn't saying like, okay,

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John Piper, I myself, I myself, all of us, everyone in this room can what?

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Can apostatize? Or if you're elect, you won't, but everyone can, it's potential for everyone.

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And so you better make sure that you're what? Have faith in Christ or you come to church and hear me preach the law, which is apparently a salvation sermon.

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And that's what keeps you in. See the difference? The author of Hebrews is pointing people back to Christ.

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The author of Hebrews is pointing people to faith. John Piper is pointing people to hear my preaching and the commands and the exhortations.

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And this is what keeps you in. So of course this is gonna create hangups in people.

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And of course, I mean, I don't think he's intending this, but of course it creates a market for this kind of stuff too. I mean, it's that you need,

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I mean, you gotta have more preaching then. You gotta have more, it's nothing wrong with more preaching, but this is what's keeping you in the faith, essentially.

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The first verse, Hebrews 3, one of that chapter, consider Jesus, consider

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Jesus. That's what it says. The apostle and high priest of our confession. The apostle, the one who brought it to us, the sent one and the high priest, the one who advocates for us.

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And then the focus is on him. He was faithful. He has been counted worthy.

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Moses was faithful, but Christ was faithful as the son of his house. That's the focus of Hebrews.

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It's focused on Christ. And then what's your response to Christ? Today, if you hear his voice, don't harden your heart as when they provoked me.

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Don't do what the children of Israel did. Don't do what your ancestors did. That's what he's saying to them. Don't do what they did when the going got tough.

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I know the going's tough. Don't do what they did. And what did they do? Well, they tested

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Christ, God. They lacked faith. They demonstrated that they had no faith. And because of that, they did not enter into the

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Sabbath rest or the promised land. And the parallel is if you do this, you lack faith.

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You will not enter into the salvation, the justification that Christ has, the believer's rest.

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That's what four is about. So I think when it's framed that way, then it all routes back to Christ and away from you.

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You don't look to yourself and just keep evaluating. Is the fruit a certain size? I don't know. Am I hearing enough exhortations?

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I don't know. I mean, I'm looking at myself and I'm trying to like, am

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I, I don't know where I'm at. Am I going to walk away?

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Am I gonna apostatize? Am I, I mean, anyone could do it. There's so much deception. I was listening, by the way, just to make sure

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I offend everyone. I started listening to this Jonathan Edwards sermon that it wasn't expository in this sense.

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It was more of like a topical, I guess, but it was mostly, it was Hebrews three that Edwards was pulling from.

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And I got about three quarters through it. And I just was like, okay, I guess I'm good. It was about self deception. And it was so, it was just like, it was kind of a black pill in a way.

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It was just like, how do you even know if you're deceived? And it wasn't like,

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I think what Edwards was saying in general was true, but it was like, the emphasis was so, it was so heavy. Like you can so easily deceive yourself.

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Okay, yeah, you can. Believers deceive themselves, everything. Like give me the way out, right? Give me the way out.

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And if you just read straight scripture, if you just read Hebrews three, the way out is right there.

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Faith, faith in Christ. That's the point. That's what Hebrews is focused on. And so that's what I think, that's what good preaching looks like from the book of Hebrews.

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So yeah, obviously say these warnings, say, look, if you, like you can say with all full honesty and force, you can say that if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.

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You can say, they went astray. They shall not enter my rest.

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Don't be like them. There's this warning, this danger. Whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient?

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You can say that. You can say, if you're disobedient to God, if that's what marks your life, if that's who you are, if you are someone who is, you've turned away from God, and this is in an ultimate sense.

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And so you're not gonna enter his rest. You don't have belief, then you're toast.

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You could say that. You can say, if we hold fast from the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, examine to see, examine yourself.

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See if you still, if you have faith there, if you actually do trust in Christ, that's the question, right? You can be very, very,

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I think, direct and harsh, even if you wanna call it that with these kinds of things, but you're always gonna loop it back, right?

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That's the point. You don't leave people in the state of anxiety and needing more of what you have to offer.

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They need what Christ has to offer. That's what Hebrews is about. All right, I beat the dead horse.

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I think I've said my piece here, and that's why I look at that. And I see truth, by the way.

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I see some things that John Piper's saying that's true. He's right about perseverance. If you're justified, if you're in Christ, you're going to persevere and you're gonna have fruit and all of that.

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But I don't believe that the author of Hebrews was trying to produce anxiety in believers.

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And I think the effect of preaching like what you just heard is that. And that's what

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I think I've kind of gotten away from and I don't want, and I just don't see how it syncs up with what scripture is teaching in this passage.

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So there you go. That's the podcast. Hope that was helpful to some of you. And of course, you can always object in the comments or express your appreciation.

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Or if there's something I didn't see, you can say, John, I don't think you saw this. I want you to see it, whatever.

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But I appreciate all the comments that you do leave and share this around.

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Especially if you have someone, if you like what you heard and you have someone that does struggle with this kind of thing. Maybe they heard that clip and they are struggling with anxiety in this.

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Tell them to look to Christ, not to look to their own works, not to look to more and more preaching, but to look to Christ.

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He's the one that actually accomplishes justification. And ultimately, he's the one that we rely on to take us to heaven with him.

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And so I like the book of Hebrews for that reason. He is better. God bless and more coming next week.