February 21, 2020 Show with Conference Interviews featuring Ray Rhodes, Bobby McCreery, and Todd Friel

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February 24, 2020

February 21, 2020 Featuring Interviews from the 2020 G3 Conference with RAY RHODES, Pastor of Grace Community Church of Gainesville, GA, An Interview from the 2018 G3 Conference with BOBBY McCREERY, Founder of “To the End of the Earth” street evangelism ministry, AND A Discussion from the 2017 G3 Conference with TODD FRIEL, author, conference speaker & host of WRETCHED TV & Radio

00:04: Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown
00:10: Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron This is a radio platform in which pastors
00:23: Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today
00:30: Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another
00:38: Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation
00:46: To make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours
00:54: And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host
00:59: Chris Arnzen Good afternoon,
01:06: Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida Champaign County, Illinois and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming to iron sharpens iron radio .com
01:17: My name is Eric Nielsen and I'm sitting in once again for Chris Arnzen as we come to our final day of Conference interviews today.
01:28: We have interviews from three different g3 conferences Our first interview is with pastor
01:34: Ray Rhodes from this past January's g3 conference in 2020
01:39: Ray is the pastor of Grace Community Church of Gainesville, Georgia the second interview is with evangelist
01:46: Bobby McCreary of to the end of the earth ministries from g3 2018 and finally from g3 2017
01:55: Chris's interview with Todd Friel of wretched TV and radio to begin Let's listen in to this conversation that Chris had with pastor
02:04: Ray Rhodes here I am again at the g3 conference for an on -site interview at the
02:11: Georgia International Convention Center In Atlanta, Georgia, I'm here with pastor
02:17: Ray Rhodes of Grace Community Church of Dawsonville, Georgia And it's a delight to have you back on iron sharpens iron radio
02:24: Chris, it's great to be with you And why don't you let our listeners know about Grace Community Church for those of our listeners?
02:31: Especially you have not yet heard you on this program. Yeah Grace Community Church. We're about an hour north of Atlanta a book of church focused on expository preaching and the gospel
02:42: God -centered worship just a Fantastic church.
02:47: I'm thankful to have the opportunity to pastor there Great and I'm sure that we will
02:54: Repeat your contact information, but what's your website at that church? That's Grace Church Dawsonville org
03:01: Grace Church Dawsonville org and that's D a w s o n v i l le.
03:07: That's correct well, one of the latest things that I'm aware of in your ministry is that you have written a biography of Susanna Spurgeon Called Susie.
03:21: Why don't you let us know about that? Yeah, Moody publishers did that and it came out in a beautiful hardback doing really well
03:30: It's in being translated presently in three languages. The Dow's already out. It's in its third printing
03:36: Did you say the Dutch is already it's already out? Yeah, it'll coming out in Russian and Korean and that's the ones we know about at the moment
03:44: It's just done remarkably well by God's grace and good folks at Moody working hard So we surpassed all of our expectations within just over a year.
03:54: It's been out now and What was the motivation for you to write this book about Susanna Spurgeon?
04:03: I don't think that enough attention has been paid to by the body of Christ and Publishers and authors about the wives of great
04:17: Christian men But what was specifically the motivation for you to approach this autobiography?
04:23: I'm not this autobiography this biography of Susanna Spurgeon. Yeah, well back in seminary in 2013 and Love Spurgeon for a long time.
04:35: I think I read the first full biography of Spurgeon maybe 1990 So when I went back to work on my doctorate at the
04:42: Southern Baptist Theological Seminary choosing a thesis topic looking into Spurgeon Studying spirituality and his marriage actually and then when it came time to think about maybe doing a book
04:53: There was a lot of interest in a Susanna Spurgeon biography and I had uncovered so much information about her
04:59: I would I just was became fascinated with her life in ministry and there's only There's only been one other
05:06: Biography of Susanna Spurgeon was done in 1903 and it was about a hundred pages. So very small as helpful
05:12: It's a good banner of truth has republished that With one of her devotional books and so there's really not been a substantive
05:20: Biography of Susanna Spurgeon. So it's really a perfect storm the interest in Spurgeon sort of a revival again interest in Spurgeon over the last ten years and No one's done this before really and a subject that it has great interest and so Really was a blessing as an author to one have a topic that folks are interested in Secondly have a great publisher like Moody that bought into it wholeheartedly and Gave me the opportunity to dig deeper into the life of this lady that has not really been explored and I discovered some facts
05:56: That really floored me about Susanna Spurgeon. Why don't you tell us about some of these unexpected things you discovered?
06:02: Yeah, she was One of the things that surprised me was that she was so active physically
06:09: In her teenage years and her early marriage to Spurgeon. We tend to think of her Automatically as this invalid which she was for most of her married life
06:18: But she hiked the major Alps The mountain passes while Spurgeon's in his carriage with his publisher talking books and theology
06:28: Susie's out in front walking and she's often ahead of the group. Was that voluntary?
06:34: She loved it she You know, she used to walk to meet him during their engagement period several miles to the
06:43: Crystal Palace Where they where he first revealed his love for her and then they had a weekly rendezvous there
06:50: So she walked several miles a week doing that so I was surprised by that I was surprised by the how prolific of an author she was
06:59: She wrote five standalone books herself She's a major contributor and co -editor of them.
07:05: What was the massive four -volume autobiography of Charles Spurgeon? Which I have actually no, you got one of the four volumes.
07:12: Great. Yeah, I was given that by a A Pastor friend of mine who's believed now
07:22: Well, actually he just re -entered the pastoral ministry. He was retired from the ministry for a while but he gave that to me and it was interestingly enough when a
07:37: Episcopalian minister on Long Island died His estate was left to his adult children who found the enormous
07:53: Library that this man had accumulated Nothing more than a nuisance and trash and they were getting rid of it and giving it away and that was amongst the things in his library that my
08:06: Pastor friend who discovered this treasure trove and this Episcopalian ministers
08:13: Parsonage and he blessed me with that that great treasure. I was quite amazed by that It's a wonderful treasure banner of truth did a really good abridgment to volume abridgment of that book and Pilgrim publications
08:26: Did the full four volumes in two big volumes now, I don't I don't know that they are still
08:33: Publishing now, I'm not sure You can get it on eBay and whatnot the Pilgrim edition and you can find the four volume if you want to pay a little bit of money on eBay occasionally also and I also have a
08:46: Set of those four volumes and they're just priceless to me. I know that one of the books that she wrote
08:52: Although I can't remember the title But it was a book specifically written to visit people in their sick bed
09:01: And I can't remember the exact name of it. Do you recall the name of that? Well, she had yes I think
09:06: I know what you're talking about. She did three devotional books and The one I think you're referring to is called a cluster of Camphor yes, that's exactly and that's her and my view.
09:18: That's her best devotional work. She did two other devotionals. She did two books on the book fund the first one called ten years of my life and the service of the books fund and it's really the closest thing to an autobiography of Susanna Spurgeon we have because she put so many personal details into that and then a follow -up ten more years
09:38: Sort of an unknown thing to about Susanna Spurgeon her writing career actually started when she was engaged to Charles and He she would his date nights with Susie very romantic
09:50: He was they would he'd go over to her home and he would edit his sermons From for publication that week while she sat there quietly, huh?
10:00: Well one night he gave her a copy of some of Thomas Brooks work and he said go through and pull out of this book some important quotations salient quotes and She did and it became a book that you and I know now as smooth stones taken from ancient
10:16: Brooks And her name is nowhere to be found on the book, which would have been pretty Common in that era was women as names were not often
10:25: Used in books, but this would been in 1855 I believe But she says there's a love story between every page because she's working on this and then
10:35: Spurgeon gets it published And it's one of his earliest works as well smooth stone and banner of truth also
10:41: Has republished that book and it's available today Now I'm assuming it would be a mistake for someone to hear about this biography of Susanna Spurgeon and Say well that would be a great thing for my wife for my daughter for my sister
11:02: Exclusively right they might not even readily think well a man a brother in Christ Would benefit greatly from this as well
11:12: So I'm sure since you found this subject fascinating enough yourself as a man that Male readers would benefit greatly from this as well
11:25: I think so and I think that we need to read more biographies of godly women in history
11:30: It gives us you know as the Bible describes the churches of mothers and fathers sisters and brothers sons and daughters
11:38: And the body is incomplete without a love and appreciation for the whole of the body
11:43: You know you hear sometimes of churches that target certain age groups, and I just don't think that's a biblical concept
11:48: We we have a relatively young church But we're always praying God would give us some great more gray hair in our church
11:55: We need the wisdom of the aged and we know that that's an excellent thing to another refreshing thing to hear actually yeah
12:00: And we love that in our in our congregation, but yeah, so there's that just appreciating the sisters
12:08: Contribution and she was again as an invalid after about 1867 until her death in 1903
12:16: She gave away 200 ,000 books to poor pastors she served pastors wives
12:23: She kept a regular correspondence with ministers She actually planted a church after Charles Spurgeon died.
12:31: She left her home. It was under repair to go vacation down At a place called
12:36: Bex Hill on C. While she was there She asked a local or where the local Baptist Church was located, and he said ma 'am.
12:44: There's not one And that really bothered her and so she led the effort to plant a church that still exists today
12:50: Bula Baptist Church Bex Hill on C. and quite the woman she was she chose their pastor and sent him to plant that church and Supported it financially and through her influence
13:02: So just a remarkable story plus. There's a lot of Spurgeon himself in this book
13:08: I tell bring a lot about their marriage. There's actually Moody's doing a follow -up We're doing a book called
13:13: Spurgeon in love where we'll deal more specifically with themes from their marriage should be out about this time next year
13:19: So yeah, I think any pastor Any any godly man will will be as I was the more
13:26: I peel back layers of this woman the more I wanted to know because we tend to think of her again as this invalid sickly homebound and not really much to say to us today, but She put put me to shame in her invalid years and me and relatively good health
13:43: I feel like a lightweight compared to Susanna Spurgeon now in what ways would Spurgeon's wife
13:51: Susanna Perhaps surprise some of us Ways that she perhaps broke the mold of a
14:05: Or broke away from I should say the the stereotype that many
14:13: Christians may have of what should be expected of a Christian woman and wife that are not
14:22: Biblical requirements of a godly woman, but they may be Things that we have developed in our minds as just that stereotypes where where she may have
14:34: Shown more independence and so on Than one might have expected
14:40: Yeah, and you know Spurgeon always treated her as an equal. I mean he valued her counsel
14:48: And it's sort of a funny thing though where she you know Spurgeon did not believe in using instruments right and congregational singing
14:56: But Susie obviously didn't have a problem with that because even while Spurgeon's alive. She gave a couple of churches organs
15:03: But she specified that they only be used for your worship not for any sort of entertainment
15:11: Or anything like that So you can imagine they had a really happy marriage, but you can imagine that made for some lovely discussions in the
15:19: Spurgeon household So this occurred while he was still living yes, she did again after he died, but so yeah he was obviously very aware of that and I'm sure he chuckled
15:30: They had some lovely conversations about that, but just this whole church planting thing she did
15:37: You know sort of not expecting that from a Victorian right wife of a non -conformist pastor
15:43: But she was really out front with that She raised money when the tabernacle burned in the late 1890s her son
15:52: Thomas was the pastor at that time And she was very sickly, but she refused to listen to her doctor and others
15:58: She went to this burned -down tabernacle and just within a couple of hours people passed by and put money in her hand
16:05: And she raised I forget the exact amount now significant in today's dollars So she just pressed forward people ask her what she was going to do after Spurgeon died
16:14: And she said I'm gonna go back to doing what I was doing serving Christ through the book fund And she did that until she died and then she had a way in which that would continue on after her death as well
16:27: You you recall to my mind a funny story that I wonder if you could confirm
16:35: Was an accurate quote of Charles Spurgeon, but when you were speaking about his
16:41: Conviction regarding exclusive acapella worship right I had heard a story where someone approached
16:49: Charles Spurgeon and said is it appropriate for a church to have an organ and Charles Spurgeon said it is completely acceptable as long as the pipes are filled with cement
17:02: That sounds like him Because I do have a quote that's going to be in the new book that Where he's preaching he preaches obviously at churches that have organs so not not everyone shared his view even among the folks who loved him
17:16: And he made a joke about it at the church And not forget the exact wording, but he said this is an innovation as soon as there's an out of ation
17:26: We'll be better off for it So that sounds like a quote that Spurgeon would have something
17:31: Spurgeon would have said Now I know that I had interviewed you on this biography of Susanna once before Susie What's the subtitle again?
17:44: Susie the life and legacy of Susanna Spurgeon wife of CH Spurgeon What can you tell us about the responses that you've received since then because When I first interviewed you on it,
17:56: I don't think it was actually in print at that time. That's right. That's right
18:01: I think it was a in process at that time and I've been floored
18:09: Pastors wives contacting me Yeah And just showing up here people say
18:15: I read this and was moved to tears. I was so encouraged and challenged and So it's been overwhelmingly positive and and I feel it's very humbling to put something down that you're excited about and passionate about and to see the
18:32: Lord use it to Encourage someone else and and how well it's done and how many people are getting and still they sold out yesterday within a couple of Hours at noon table
18:43: It's it's in a Shepherd's Conference. They had they sold a thousand copies Wow at the
18:48: Shepherd's Conference It's I don't know. It just struck a nerve in God's providence at the right time.
18:55: I guess in history and and I'm moved by the response and I'm thankful I'm just a small -town preacher in North Georgia and I'm thankful the
19:06: Lord maybe used me in some small way to to bless others and a lot of folks get giving it to their pastors wives and Ladies groups that are using it for their ladies reading a study
19:19: It's been used in all sorts of ways and I'm thankful for that Thankful for you talking about I think you may not remember the very first book.
19:27: I published probably may have been 2008 or Earlier maybe on family worship.
19:33: Yes, so you're the first person I think that ever interviewed Wow way back yonder and Wow to see how the
19:41: Lord has worked in that over the years I remember that was through the connection of our dear friend and brother
19:48: Mike Gatorsh of solid ground Christian books that's exactly where I did three of those with him three family worship books and Was delightful and those are still people are still using those
19:59: I'm still getting responses from those early books and we missed Mike this year. He didn't make it to g3
20:04: Yes, I was hoping to see him, but it didn't work out I Was just talking during another interview about The importance of The wives of a man
20:23: Who believes he has received a call to the pastoral ministry
20:30: That if he is married that his wife Should really believe she has a calling to be a pastor's wife and If a man who has that call or believes he has that call is not married it is
20:46: Absolutely essential that he finds a wife That also shares that Call that that she is going to have as a dominant part of her life
21:01: The roles and responsibilities of a under shepherds wife and What do you think that That not only women in that position who are listening
21:19: And even men who are not yet married Who are believe they have the call to enter in the ministry?
21:26: What are those things that they should be? Looking for Or in the woman's case desiring to possess themselves
21:40: That Susanna Spurgeon Demonstrated in her life obviously
21:45: She is a individual a unique person, and I'm not saying that That people need to be cookie cutter duplicates nor could they ever achieve that but They need not strive to be a cookie cutter duplicate of a great woman of God, but at the same time
22:05: There are certain things. I believe that That someone could learn
22:13: From thing from Susanna Spurgeon that should be present in the life of a woman
22:20: Who is Going to be the wife of a pastor. Yeah And one of those is that she should share
22:28: A sense that this is what God's called her to do the worst possible scenarios if you're pulling against one another and that that will not work and and Susie in Susie situation she was married to a very unique pastor
22:47: Almost unsurpassed in all of history as far as his how popular he was he was one of those popular not only
22:54: Ministers he was one of the most popular people in the world. He was as well known as the
22:59: Prime Minister of England in fact Some people they ask a child said who's the Prime Minister of England said well. I thought it was
23:04: Charles Spurgeon so but early on in their relationship And Spurgeon saw a depth in her in which he believed that he could reveal his late
23:15: He had thoughts of her romantically, but didn't reveal those thoughts until he could see a depth in her that of love but One thing that happened early in their relationship
23:27: Spurgeon had her with them, and they was going to preach to this huge engagement. They're engaged at this point and Spurgeon had a tendency he becomes so laser focused on the task at hand he would forget his surroundings
23:40: And even his is a fiance so as they go into the building He just forgets about her and he goes to do his thing and she leaves and goes home
23:51: Upset with him and After it's all over it dawns on Spurgeon. Where's Susie?
23:57: And so Spurgeon then chases her down He gets to her house as quickly as he can after the service and she had a very wise mother who could have driven a
24:08: Wallet built a wall of division between them But brought them together, and she told she had reminded
24:13: Susie the man You're marrying is no ordinary man when he's just a pastor, but he's not even ordinary pastor and you should you need to support him with all your heart and when
24:25: Spurgeon got there the mother worked reconciliation But all that to say that led to Susie making a commitment that she held to for the rest of her life
24:34: That she would only support and never do anything to hinder Spurgeon in his public ministry, and he knew that he had a wife at home
24:44: Who would who was fully supportive who was not pouting and sulking even though sometimes she was sad she missed him
24:52: She was not trying to hold him back. In fact. She was encouraging him outward And and she was not only very lonely oftentimes very sick at home
25:01: Spurgeon makes sure she had everything that she needed and was cared for But she never turned away from her commitment to that and then she joined him in ministry
25:12: So she celebrated the things that Spurgeon did for example 1875 she's been sick for a number of years first volume of lectures to my students comes out he asked her to read it before it is actually officially on the market and She became so she was so excited about that She said
25:28: I wish we could give a copy to every pastor in England And he said why don't you make that happen and she did
25:34: Let me that in the sense that mrs. Spurgeon's book fund began through Volume one of lectures to my students, so she cheered him on she celebrated
25:43: Spurgeon was prone to deep depression She was committed to praying for him and reading him
25:49: She read poetry to him when he was really sad when he was feeling like he had been cold in the ministry
25:54: She read Richard Baxter to him He asked that so that he would be you know if you've read any
26:00: Richard Baxter especially the reform pastor right it's hard to get through page one of that without feeling deep conviction
26:08: So there was no hesitation. She was not the reluctant pastor's wife She loved her husband prayed for her husband joined him in ministry
26:16: Celebrated his accomplishments, and just would not allow anything going on in her life to hinder him in his ministry
26:22: Yes, it's amazing that he is known for battling Severe depression in light of the fact that he had such great popularity but obviously
26:35: He didn't have great popularity with everyone because of the conflicts he had in the downgrade controversy and so on that Brought to him great enormous grief and and depression
26:49: Yeah, and she said that was the that was sort of the straw that broke the back She believed that was what led to Spurgeon's early death
26:58: His friends looked back at the earlier music hall disaster that never left him He had effects from that for the rest of his life something like post
27:07: Stress syndrome, you know the disorder, but she believed it was the contrary because in that controversy
27:13: People he believed had been comrades with who had been comrades with him in the ministry
27:19: Abandoned him and in many ways he was not alone But he wept over some of his own students that he had trained that did not stand with him during that time
27:30: Wow Well, I want you to just summarize some of the most Vital things about the life of Susanna Spurgeon that you want left etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today
27:40: Yeah, well Susie wrote in one of her devotional books that one of the great things that every
27:46: Christian needs to do is to treasure great thoughts about God and As we heard at this conference one of the preachers said
27:56: I mean that will solve so many other issues if we will focus on knowing who
28:02: God is and trusting God and so Susie is an example of trusting
28:08: God through very hard times both with her husband and Being confined to the sickbed so often
28:16: In her own life and yet not quitting keeping the faith persevering to the end and And leaving a gospel -centered witness.
28:25: I believe her greatest legacy to us Chris is Charles Spurgeon We go into a
28:30: Christian bookstore. We order Christian website Charles Spurgeon still exists today in large part because he had a wife that gave herself to his legacy and Her support for him and if he had not had her
28:44: He said she was necessary to him. That's the word he used necessary I don't think we have the
28:51: Charles Spurgeon we have today had he not had the Susie Spurgeon that he had The wife that he had in Susie, so Praise God.
29:00: Well, I want our listeners to know that you can purchase this biography of Susanna Spurgeon Susie by Ray Rhodes at CVBBS .com
29:10: Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service who sponsor Iron Trip and Zion Radio and Why don't you remind our listeners about a
29:18: Grace Community Church in Dawsonville, Georgia and how they can get in contact with you? Yeah, there's the church website
29:25: Grace Church, Dawsonville .org and you can also find me at just Susie Spurgeon calm.
29:33: Oh great Susie Spurgeon calm and that's s u s ie Spurgeon s pu r g e o n
29:41: And of course moody publishers, you can get me through moody publishers as well. Great Well, I want you to also extend my warm greetings to a colonel
29:50: Kevin Gerard He is a colonel presently, right? He is that's right
29:56: And I have very fond memories of fellowship with him and interviewing him would love to have him back on the program
30:01: Is he still co -pastoring? He is he's a fellow elder with me there at Grace Community Church and indispensable to our church
30:07: So great. Well, thank you so much for being on the program today I look forward to future returns to Iron Trip and Zion Radio from you.
30:15: Thank you, Chris Always enjoy appreciate your ministry brother. All right. God bless you. Thank you I hope you enjoyed that conversation with pastor
30:22: Ray Rhodes at this time. We are going to take a break to hear from our sponsors Chris Sorensen host of iron sharpens iron radio here.
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36:09: Welcome back to iron sharpens iron radio I'm Eric Nielsen sitting in for Chris Arnzen and we are listening to conference interviews from past g3 conferences
36:19: The second interview is with evangelist Bobby McCreary of to the end of the earth ministries
36:26: And this is from the 2018 g3 conference in 2018
36:31: Bobby was based out of the Kula, Georgia And he has moved on and now is now in the
36:37: Atlanta area And so before the interview begins, I want to be sure to give updated contact information for him
36:44: The to the end of the earth ministries website is that to the end of the earth dot org?
36:51: That's to the end of the earth org. Now, let's listen to Chris's conversation with Bobby McCreary Chris Arnzen at the g3 conference on site here in Atlanta, Georgia and finally after much prayer and Patience, I am finally interviewing the very elusive and hard to find
37:14: Bobby McCreary Pastor of Harvard. I'm sorry Harbin's not not the pastor.
37:21: Oh, it's just evangelist evangelist at the Harbin's Community Baptist Church in Dekula, is that right?
37:29: Dekula Dekula? Georgia and I have been told to remember how to spell that by just spelling
37:37: Dracula and then taking the R out of it. That's it and It's an honor and privilege to have you here
37:45: Bobby. I first met Bobby McCreary at a conference in Pensacola, Florida and That was the
37:54: Jeremiah cry conference, right? Yes, sir. Jeremiah cries Herald Society. That's right and you were there because that is predominantly a
38:04: Conference made up of speakers not exclusively but predominantly made up of a conference featuring speakers that are known to be street preachers
38:13: That's right. That's right. We did we did also have dr. White and he kept remembering to remind us. Why do you have me here?
38:23: Yeah, well, that's not true, I mean the speakers are Predominantly at least if not exclusively reform.
38:32: Yes exclusively. Yes, and that might appear to be an oxymoron to a lot of folks that have a stereotype about not only
38:42: Calvinists, but also street preacher street preachers, they might think that a Person who's theologically
38:49: Calvinistic Would not care enough to evangelize the lost to be a street preacher
38:56: But obviously you guys defy the stereotype well, praise
39:02: God brother, I think a Lot of what I spend my time doing here at g3 is talking to pastors and saying
39:10: That's that's exactly what we do is defy that stereotype. I hope Uh interesting
39:18: University of Georgia where I minister twice a week there was one of these, you know, Pelagian abusers out there this year calling everybody names and he ended up getting arrested and a pastor friend of mine said
39:31: None of these kids are gonna want to talk to you now for the whole rest of the semester And it's funny because more came and talked to me after that But he said how are you gonna distinguish yourself from from this guy?
39:41: I said brother. I hope I distinguish myself from this guy every time I And it's interesting because you know, even a lot of students they came and said like They you know, they'll give me a hard time a lot of times when those guys don't come around for a year or so But after brother
39:58: Jed rolls in the next few weeks, you know, not my brother Jed But after he rolls in the next few weeks,
40:04: I hear a lot of thanks for not being like that guy You know and we can see a real difference
40:11: Knowing in your experience are most of the street preachers that you at least that you have encountered
40:17: Are they typically non Calvinist? So I would say what's what's
40:23: I think is dominated the street preaching culture over the last maybe century are primarily sinless perfectionist and Pelagians Independent fundamental
40:35: Baptist, you know get out at some they I love those brothers They do a lot of what
40:40: I might call them beer and cigarette preaching, you know It's kind of like if I don't drink
40:46: I don't smoke. I don't cuss. I'm a Christian kind of thing, you know Oh, okay Cuz I was puzzled there for me because I thought that you were talking that a fundamentalist standing there with a beer and a cigarette
40:54: No, no You know put down that beer center put down your cigarette, you know, well everything be okay
41:02: Then if you don't have those two things, no, you need it. You need regeneration, you know, I mean we're preaching
41:08: Christ But I think that's a lot of what's out there You know when
41:13: I'm here at the g3 most pastors I talked to they say tell me what you do I say I'm a street preacher and there some kind of look comes out.
41:20: They might try to disguise it a little but I say Hopefully not like the picture that comes in your mind when you first hear that And I've got a little booklet.
41:29: It's called the agency that transformed a nation by JC Ross It's the first chapter of Christian leaders of the 18th century and he talks about the 19th century
41:39: JC Ross 1800s Well, he's he's writing about the
41:45: Christian leaders of all he wrote about. Oh, I see. Okay, sir Yeah, and then an original publication was
41:50: Christian leaders of the last century Okay, and my friend Jeff rose from Jeremiah cry actually got me a he's a great rare book dealer
41:57: He got me a first edition of that So I always knew it as of the 18th century But the one that he got for me is of the last century
42:04: I was like this is so cool But it's the first chapter of that book and he talks about the condition of England prior to the preaching of Whitfield and Wesley those guys coming on the scene and how it was extremely high infant mortality rate rampant alcoholism and Bishop Ryle would make the case that Open air preaching was the the agency
42:26: He calls it that the Lord used to bring England back from the brink of maybe, you know, just sort of falling out
42:33: Almost of existence. It was in such dire straits and yeah, I know that the the Anglican Church at least in England Was very opposed to Wesley and Whitfield doing the open -air preaching.
42:49: Mm -hmm. Yeah, I don't think it's ever been a You know a widely accepted thing even within the church, you know when they threw
42:58: Whitfield out of the church, you know Probably you probably know as Chris a lot. He said now the world is my pulpit and So it's it's funny.
43:08: I think you know street preachers There's there's kind of a lot of club frustration going on because we feel like why doesn't the church, you know embrace?
43:15: Well never really has the establishment my dear friend Al Baker of Presbyterian Evangelistic Fellowship passed for many years and I Interviewed Al many years ago, and I was broadcasting it of New York.
43:26: Yeah, he said though He said I'll never forget this brother. He said the Lord Has never done anything great through the establishment because the establishment
43:36: It no longer expects great things from the Lord. And hmm, so, you know in that in that little chapter
43:42: Bishop Ryle really Sort of he believes that God transformed
43:48: England through open -air preaching. So when I talk to pastors here, I say Well, I hope you know,
43:53: I I refuse to labor with or have any association with really brother other than trying to evangelize heretics
44:03: People like Jesse morale or Jed smock. Yeah, Jesse is quite active on the internet and Facebook Yeah, anybody listening, please don't
44:13: Google them if you never Know who they are, but I'm already on their dartboard already.
44:18: So it's okay, but I refuse to labor with anyone like that and and So I I'm hoping that through it's the grace of God Who brought me to an understanding of the doctrines of grace and the importance of local church membership and submission to elders?
44:38: And those are the types of men that I labor with and in the harvest fields of the Lord. So I tell these pastors
44:44: I'm hoping maybe not in my life but maybe in the next generation there'll be a conference like this and someone will say
44:51: I'm an open -air preacher and people would would think of someone like Whitfield who's on the cover of that book or they'd have a positive thought rather than like a
45:03: How'd this guy get in here thought, you know? So, you know brother I've been shown much grace by the
45:09: Lord. I want to be a minister of grace those guys that are out there Here's a thing brother here's what you can help with Chris, let's stop calling those guys open -air preachers those
45:18: Pelagian Deceivers, they're open -air abusers They're not preachers.
45:24: They don't preach the cross You know, they're all law all hell all condemnation. They mentioned
45:30: Jesus name a lot. I had a discussion with one I said, you know my biggest problem with you guys is you don't talk about Jesus a lot
45:36: He said he just the guy preaching just said Jesus name Well, you mentioned his name a lot, but you don't talk about his person his work his majesty
45:43: Who he is what he can do for sinners, right? And I said, is it possible that you can't talk a lot about someone you don't know?
45:51: Yeah, and That would go inside with Pelagianism Because for those of our listeners unfamiliar with that term
46:01: Pelagius and those who followed him Either consciously or unconsciously,
46:07: I'm not sure that Charles Finney knew that he was a Pelagian I'd be surprised if no one accused him of that but basically, you're removing the necessity of grace from the equation of salvation and Not only are you born innocent a clean slate
46:32: Where you have a potential of living perfectly But Grace is not required for you to come to a saving knowledge of Christ and to labor and produce the works that would be satisfying
46:51: God's wrath basically and Charles Finney a lot of people who
46:57: Laud him as a hero. They don't even realize that he did not even believe that the
47:03: The death of Christ had redemptive value to him Hmm.
47:08: Yeah, it's tragic. I think a lot of the people even today that practice a lot of Finney ism if you will don't even realize where it really comes from Don't understand the false doctrines that it's rooted in and of course most fundamentalists today that They love
47:28: Finney. They are not really Pelagian most of them would be non or anti Calvinist But they would not be pure Pelagian as most of them
47:38: In fact, none most of them would not even permit somebody who was to be members of the church and yet they laud
47:45: Finney Yeah well, tell us something I try to do this every time
47:51: I Interview a person for the first time I don't always successfully do that because I forget sometimes or sometimes they don't have enough time to do it, but I'd like you to give a summary of your testimony of salvation of what kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in if any and what providential circumstance stances
48:15: Arose in your life by God's grace that drew you to himself and saved you and then of course
48:21: I'd like to know how you came to the doctrines of grace Great Wow, I'll try to make it a radio -friendly length.
48:30: I Was raised by my father's parents primarily my parents divorced
48:36: I was a year old and 18 months went to live with them Had a mother that took off a father that was present but not
48:45: Not really a part of my life too much. So my grandmother, there's the only Christian in my family that I know of She took me to church
48:56: And I you know prayed the prayer I don't know half a dozen times You know as a young boy and was put in someone's water
49:05: Tank several times and when I became a teenager, I was just a rebel I was a wicked sinner.
49:11: I'd say it like this once my grandparents couldn't control me anymore. They couldn't control me anymore so I went out into the world brother and You know all the defilements of this world were in enjoyed and promoted by me
49:25: I was the epitome of the Romans one they not only know that those who do these things deserve to die, but encourage others to do them as well and So when
49:37: I was 22 years old, I married my wife Kara she was 19 we were both unsaved
49:43: She comes from a family of her parents are agnostic and even still today You know, we were lost we were young but in God's providence
49:53: He preserved our marriage and so fast -forward 11 years into that and I was very horrible husband
50:01: We had a daughter Hannah who's now 13 when she was 4 I had a client at my job
50:08: I was working in commercial landscaping and this guy kept inviting me to his church And when I say kept inviting me
50:14: I saw him once a month and every time the first time I met him You're a Christian. Oh, yeah, when people ask me if I was a
50:20: Christian Chris, I'd say yeah, and hope they change the subject real quick So I'd say yeah, he said where do you fellowship?
50:27: I said, you know me and God got our own thing going. I don't need a church all that No, you need a church come to my church so the third time this guy asked me
50:37: I was either gonna tell him to you know, take your church and shove it and probably get fired from my job and then not know what to do or Say, okay,
50:47: I'll go and that's what I did Hoping that I would just go and he'd leave me alone All right
50:53: So the first time we go to this church, which is an interesting church Seeker sensitive modeled after Saddleback Rick Warren's Church God works in mysterious ways, right?
51:04: So he saves my wife First time we ever go there. She's born again She has the desire to live a holy life and pray and read
51:12: God's Word and I'm like, oh no, you know now what? So we're there a year and a half and I'm still living in sin.
51:21: She's praying for me like Peter talks about a wife who wins her husband without a word and I Began to listen to Well, here's what happened one day.
51:32: They had an announcement for a mission trip to go to Bolivia and I felt compelled to go
51:38: I can't explain it. I was not regenerate and I was
51:43: So the guy who was leading our trip wanted to use the way of the master to train us to go evangelize
51:50: So he went through this basic training course and All all these obstacles
51:56: I thought I wouldn't be able to go because of money Lost people were sending money for me on this trip, right?
52:02: So Lord removes all these obstacles, but I'm still not saved so after we go through this training there's a couple months left to go with it for our trip and I Order some things from Ray Comfort's ministry one of them being a message called true and false conversion
52:15: And he talks about a lot of the parables in there the weed amongst the tears good fish bad fish in the same net
52:22: It's really challenging brother. He's kind of like what are you? and so the
52:27: Lord used that in his grace to bring me to an end of myself and there was a day in early 2009 where I was driving up 85 north in my work vehicle and I Had literally probably brother over the course of three weeks listened to that sermon
52:43: Maybe a hundred times every moment that I was not talking with a client or a co -worker That I was driving for work.
52:50: I was listening to it and I just began to weep and cry out to God and confess all my sin and I Can remember saying if I can't have
52:59: Jesus I'd rather not live Please just save me. I don't You know and I knew enough from growing up in the church as a kid
53:07: To hear words like the elect and so I'm saying to God if I'm not that Just kill me.
53:13: I'd rather not go on and you know God is a The poor man cried out to the
53:20: Lord and he delivered him from all his trouble. So I'm 34 He made me poor in spirit.
53:26: I know that now. I don't think I knew that then and that was Nine days before I left to actually go on that mission trip that I signed up to go home.
53:35: I wasn't safe God is a Amazing God and so he works in these
53:41: Strange ways and we need to interrupt this interview to go to our midway break
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01:05:42: That's linbrookbaptist .org. Welcome back to the second half of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:05:54: We were listening to an interview with evangelist Bobby McCreary that Chris did at the 2018
01:06:00: G3 conference. Let's return to that interview now. So how I came to the Doctrine of Grace is
01:06:08: I started reading the Bible. I started reading the Bible, and for the first year
01:06:15: I was a Christian. I didn't read any extra biblical books. All I did was just start just eating the scriptures up.
01:06:24: After I was a Christian about a year, I signed up to go on an evangelistic outreach to the Super Bowl, and I had a 15 -hour van ride with like 12 guys in a van to Miami from Atlanta.
01:06:36: And the whole way down and the whole way back, there was two brothers sitting in front of me talking about TULIP and the
01:06:43: Doctrine of Grace, and I didn't know there. I never heard of such things. I'd never heard of Calvinism.
01:06:49: I never read John Calvin. I never, I didn't know there was terms, these kind of terms, and but what
01:06:55: I, and I mostly listened. Sometimes I asked questions, but I remember thinking was this all sounds like what
01:07:03: I've been reading in the scriptures over this last year. And I had a dear brother who was with me on that outreach, and we're great friends to this day.
01:07:13: We separated doing ministry for a while, but because when we got back from that outreach,
01:07:18: I went out and bought the Potter's Freedom, and he went out and bought What Love Is This? Ah, right, so we immediately began to go sort of on separate trajectories, but you know we've now since you know reconciled and he would say now maybe he's a four -point
01:07:35: Calvinist or something like that, and I'm like it's all or nothing brother, but we're good brothers now, and so yeah, that's how the
01:07:43: Lord saved me. That's how I came to the Doctrine of Grace. People would accuse me, point a finger at me, Calvinist this or that, and I say well could, can you be that if you've never read
01:07:51: John Calvin? Can we, do we need these labels? Can we just open our Bibles and see what the scripture says?
01:07:57: And my favorite thing that Calvin's ever written to this day, I've, people are like Institutes is so great.
01:08:02: I mean have you really read all of it? I haven't brother. I've read a good portions of it, but my favorite part is still prayer.
01:08:09: I think the section in prayer, on prayer in Institutes is the greatest thing
01:08:14: I've read by Calvin, maybe the greatest thing I've ever read on prayer. There's a lot of other good stuff, but that, that section on prayer is phenomenal.
01:08:23: What you told me reminds me, and I'll try to make this fast, but years ago when
01:08:29: I was working for WMCA radio selling airtime, I did not have my own talk show at that time.
01:08:36: I was approached by a fundamentalist Baptist pastor who was not a Calvinist who said
01:08:43: I know a Jewish journalist who's a senior citizen.
01:08:50: He's retired and he considers himself a student of the
01:08:55: New Testament, and he wants to debate me on radio, and he wants to purchase some airtime to do it.
01:09:02: So I, he gave me the person's number, and I called the Jewish individual and sold him a two -hour block of airtime to debate this fundamentalist
01:09:12: Baptist pastor. And I'm listening at home to this live broadcast, and at some point during the debate this
01:09:21: Jewish journalist who had claimed to have read the New Testament many, many times, might have even been as many as a hundred or more.
01:09:31: Of course he, being remaining an Orthodox Jew, did not believe in the teachings of Jesus being the
01:09:38: Messiah and so on, but he knew the Bible very well, and he said to this fundamentalist
01:09:44: Baptist pastor, So let me get this straight. You believe that before the foundations of the world
01:09:53: God chose a certain group of people to be saved, to eventually bring to heaven with him, but he passed by all the others and did nothing to save them.
01:10:08: And the fundamentalist pastor interrupts him and says, uh -uh, Ira, hold on a minute, hold on a minute.
01:10:15: No, no, no, no. You're talking about Calvinism. This Jewish guy says, excuse me?
01:10:21: You're talking about Calvinism. I'm talking about what? Calvinism. I'm not a
01:10:26: Calvinist. What is that? I've never heard this word. I'm talking about your
01:10:31: Bible, the New Testament. I almost fell off my chair. Praise the
01:10:37: Lord. And I called the radio station, and I said to the engineer, you got to have this Jewish guy stick around after the debate's over, because I got to talk to him.
01:10:46: And I let him know that he was accurately interpreting what the New Testament said about election, and that his opponent, even though he's a
01:10:56: Christian, was very flawed in that area. And I told him I was going to pray that he actually came to believe and embrace
01:11:05: Christ as his Messiah, and so on. Wow, what a great story. I hope I can find that tape somewhere.
01:11:11: I've got to try to find that pastor and see if he'd be willing to sell me or give me a copy of that recording, because it's classic.
01:11:21: That'd be great. I'd love to hear it. Well, one of the things that I wanted to go back to that I want to make sure that we clarify when you were speaking of,
01:11:30: I believe it was Ryle, who said that God either rarely or never has used institutions.
01:11:39: Can you repeat what you were saying? Oh, no, that wasn't Bishop Ryle. That was my friend Al Baker. Oh, Al Baker, yes. I know
01:11:44: Al. You know, and I may quote him wrong.
01:11:49: He may just have to get on here and correct me sometime, but God has never done anything amazing or remarkable through the establishment, because the establishment no longer demands excellence.
01:12:04: It's sort of this, you know, they're happy with the status quo, and so, you know, he kind of describes how
01:12:11: God uses people that are, you know, maybe a little bit outliers or something like that. I heard
01:12:18: Pastor Phil Johnson describe us as weird or something like that in one of these
01:12:24: Q &As, and I said, well, I'm really... No, no, no, I don't think it was derogatory.
01:12:29: He said, you know, maybe take open -air preachers, and it takes a guy that's a little weird or something, and even if it did,
01:12:36: I would say, well, I'm very fine with that, because I've been called far, far worse by lots of folks.
01:12:42: You know, I think that's what Al was getting at is, you know, well, certainly
01:12:47: I think open -air preachers are sort of a strange, strange breed. We always have been, but that doesn't, you know, to be clear, that doesn't exclude us from some guys, they take that, and they say, well,
01:13:00: I don't need the church. I don't need to submit to anyone. They're a law unto themselves. You know, we've talked about those guys a little bit already.
01:13:07: Yeah, that's why I wanted to clarify. Totally unbiblical. Yes, and in fact, in fact, one of the things
01:13:12: I admired about all the guys that I spoke to from the Jeremiah Cry conference that I went to,
01:13:20: Tony Miano and some of these other guys, in fact, I've interviewed Tony on a number of occasions. They have a very strict policy that they will not go street preaching with anyone that does not belong to a local church, and also who does not have the blessing of the elders over him to do this, because he believes this is actually a calling.
01:13:45: It's not something that anybody should do, just because they feel like they have some kind of a gift, and unfortunately, from what these men have told me, and perhaps you can concur, sadly, most street preachers aren't even connected in any kind of membership to a local church.
01:14:04: Yeah, I would say sadly that that is true, Chris. I'm a hundred percent in agreement with what you said those brothers shared with you.
01:14:12: One of the first things I ask a person that wants to potentially labor together is, what's your church?
01:14:18: What do your elders think? A lot of times I ask them, what's your spouse think? Believe it or not, there's a lot of guys out there that are calling themselves to this type of ministry, and they're shipwrecking their home and marriage because their wife is not on board with it, and that's your first ministry.
01:14:35: To any Christian, that's your first ministry. I would even go so far as to say, and Tony believes this,
01:14:42: I think he's written about it in his book, I believe that a man who's going to do this should really meet the biblical qualifications in 1st
01:14:51: Timothy 3 and Titus 1 for an elder. It's going out and preaching and teaching the
01:14:57: Word of God, and you'd be surprised, brother, how upset some guys doing it get when you say that.
01:15:04: First of all, I'm like, shouldn't any Christian man have an aspiration to meet those qualifications?
01:15:11: You know, that's not the qualifications of a Christian Superman, right? I mean, it's sort of Christianity 101.
01:15:18: Sometimes I'll say to a guy, do you think you could be a husband of two wives? Is that what we're getting at? You know what I mean?
01:15:23: It's not like these are, you know, so I think, you know, yeah, brother, and I'd have to be transparent when
01:15:31: I left my job to go into this ministry full -time.
01:15:37: I had the approval of my pastor and elder, but I think I rushed it.
01:15:42: I think I pressured it. I think I drove it. And it was over time that the Lord reformed me through friendships with guys like Tony.
01:15:50: A dear brother named John Speed wrote a book called Evangelism, the New Testament, a little booklet where he talks about that, and he did some extensive blog writings about that, and boy, it caused a lot of friction in the open -air community because some guys just wouldn't, they refused to see what the
01:16:07: Scriptures say, I believe. But yeah, and then eventually as the
01:16:12: Lord really began to reform my heart, when we found our church in Athens, which is not where we are currently, that church split sadly, but I went to the elders, and they said, we've talked to your previous pastor.
01:16:27: We know what you're doing. We've seen some video. We're for it, but if you want this to be a ministry of this church, which
01:16:34: I do, and I believe every evangelist should be sent by the church, I believe that's the biblical model. You know,
01:16:41: Paul and Barnabas sent out by the church in Antioch, continuing to come back there and report, reporting back to the mother church in Jerusalem.
01:16:48: They said, we're gonna have to watch over your life, and we're gonna have to look at how you are as a husband and a father, and that was a two -and -a -half -year process that those guys did that, and was frustrating at times because I'd been doing the work full -time for two years prior to going there, and I'm like,
01:17:07: Lord, when's this gonna happen, but the Lord was gracious to me and helped me, and the times I was frustrated, and eventually those guys after two -and -a -half years came for me and said, we think you're ready to sit before a formal ordination council and everything like that, and you know,
01:17:22: I mean, I think every guy that is out doing this work should be at least pursuing that, and you know, we can't be rogues.
01:17:30: We can't, Tony calls it nomads. You know, that's just not a biblical model for evangelistic work.
01:17:38: Well, I'd like you to summarize in about two minutes what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.
01:17:46: Well, a lot of people ask me, brother, why do you do what you do, and I say, well, it's very simple.
01:17:52: Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of Christ. I was saved out of a lifestyle of just extraordinary sin, and I love going to places like downtown
01:18:04: Athens where there's 50 bars and four square blocks, University of Georgia's number one party school, three out of the last 12 years.
01:18:13: I used to live in Lindenhurst, Long Island, and I don't know if it's true, but many people not associated with each other told me that Lindenhurst, Long Island has more bars per square mile than any town in the
01:18:26: United States. I don't know if that's still true. Yeah, so places like that, people, you know, you go out there and preach and people say, did you come to beat up the drunks?
01:18:35: I say, no, friend. God saves drunks. God saves drunks. He saved me. But what
01:18:42: I would like the church to hear out there is most of these type of folks that you encounter out in the street are not going to come in to our churches.
01:18:51: And so if that faith is going to come by hearing, someone has to take how will they hear unless someone preaches to them, right?
01:18:59: And how will they preach? We just talked about unless they're sent. So not every Christian in church is a preacher or whatever.
01:19:06: We're all called to be witnesses and all called to proclaim the gospel, be heralds to wherever we are in whatever context we are.
01:19:14: So the Lord's called me to preach, but he also appointed evangelists to equip the saints for the work of the ministry.
01:19:22: So half of what I do honestly, brother, is preaching to the lost. But on the college campus, I want to also encourage and equip the
01:19:29: Christians that are there, these young people who are literally afraid of their God -hating professors and peers and things like that.
01:19:39: So I want to put resources like we see around here at the G3 into their hands. I want to pray for them.
01:19:45: I want to get them in my home and encourage them. I said, this is your campus. I'm just visiting here.
01:19:52: So, but you know, and another thing I'd love listeners to hear is that yeah, when you hear an open -air preacher, hear him out.
01:20:01: Listen to a guy. You see a guy preaching on the street, listen to what he says rather than just, you know, let that stereotype rule over you.
01:20:11: That stereotype's there for a reason and I get it, but brother, you know, I'm a pretty simple guy.
01:20:18: I'm not, I'm not a theologian. Well, sorry RC, forgive me.
01:20:24: Every Christian's a theologian. But uh, you know, I'm just not the sharpest guy.
01:20:29: I'm a very simple man. I love my wife and my four children. I'd rather anyone remember me as just a regular guy trying to obey what the
01:20:38: Lord's calling them to do. I'd rather my children know my dad loved me more than anyone ever knew me for evangelistic work.
01:20:46: I'm just a regular guy wanting to obey the Lord and what he's called me to and and anyone that wants to get out there into those harvest fields, you can, you can contact me.
01:20:57: I'll pray for you. I'll help you any way that I can. I don't know all the answers, but whatever ones
01:21:02: I know, you can ask me. I'm an open book. And how would they contact you?
01:21:08: So Bobby McCreary and it's Bobby at, I wish
01:21:13: I would have thought this through better in the beginning, brother. totheendoftheearth .org, all spelled out, so.
01:21:20: And even the longest email in history. The word to is not a number? T -O, right, yeah. T -O -T -H -E -E -N -D -O -F -T -H -E -E -A -R -T -H .org,
01:21:29: right. Why would anyone ever have an email that long? It's so crazy.
01:21:35: They can contact me that way. They can find me on Facebook. How would they contact the
01:21:42: Harbin's Community Baptist Church in Decula, Georgia. I think I pronounced it right. Harbin'schurch .org
01:21:48: is the website. That's H -A -R -B -I -N -S. Correct. My elders there are
01:21:53: Deemer Webb and Jeff Thomas. And, you know, if your listeners think to pray, we've been back at Harbin since our other church split, and it's a long way from the
01:22:04: UGA campus. And my goal is to bring students into the church. God saves people into the church, and we need the church.
01:22:10: So Harbin's is a little far away. I love them dearly. The Word of God is preached faithfully there.
01:22:16: Christ is held in high esteem. But we believe the Lord would have us be closer to where we're trying to minister to so that we can bring people in.
01:22:25: When we had our church in Athens, we had college students there in real meaningful membership. They're picking up people that can't, older folks that can't drive themselves anymore.
01:22:35: I'm saying glean from these people. Don't just sit in a pew on Sunday because you feel like your parents aren't gonna pay your tuition if you don't go to church.
01:22:43: You know, come in here and love the church, and that's what I want to do. So we're seeking the Lord long term as to whether or not, you know, maybe there'd be a church plant there, or if we need to move to it to another place.
01:22:59: So that's how folks could pray for us as well. Well, Brother Bobby, it's been such an honor and privilege to finally get you on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.
01:23:08: People listening don't know that I have bumped into you at various conferences, and we always intended to sit down and have an interview, and it just never happened.
01:23:17: Our paths kept crossing and so on, and not ever when we could both sit down and actually conduct an interview until now when
01:23:26: God's providence permitted it. But thank you so much. I look forward to having you back on the program again, and I look forward to also sharing fellowship with you in the future.
01:23:35: Chris and Eric, thank you guys. It's an honor and a privilege to be with you, and I'm very thankful for what you're doing,
01:23:41: Brother. Press on. God bless you. Thank you. You too. I hope you enjoyed that interview with Bobby McCreary.
01:23:47: Again, his website is totheendoftheearth .org. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.
01:23:58: If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.
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01:25:16: That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.
01:25:47: A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.
01:25:57: Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped and how he shall be represented in the world.
01:26:05: They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship
01:26:11: God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a
01:26:16: God -centered focus. Reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy, and sobriety.
01:26:31: Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace
01:26:39: .com. That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com.
01:26:47: Or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.
01:26:56: Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Iron Sharpens Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine
01:27:22: Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the Historical Bible Society. The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts, and Bibles of historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years.
01:27:38: The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of scripture, to provide tools equipping believers and Christian apologetics with evidence for the
01:27:48: Bible's reliability, and to introduce Reformation literature and Christian art to a broader audience.
01:27:55: Since 2004, HBS has toured schools and churches throughout the
01:28:00: Northeast United States, reaching thousands of believers and non -believers alike who are hungry for knowledge of the
01:28:06: Bible. HBS's founder, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, is committed to sharing this collection along with an inspirational historical message that will captivate you and your church.
01:28:19: Come journey through their website, historicalbiblesociety .org. The collection includes a complete 11th century
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01:28:33: Geneva Bible, the 1611 King James Bible, and much, much more. Visit historicalbiblesociety .org
01:28:41: today. Thank you, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, for your faithful support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
01:28:59: When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the
01:29:04: New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the
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01:30:59: Our final interview for the day is an interview that Chris did with Todd Friel at G3 2017.
01:31:07: That was the first G3 conference that Chris Arnzen attended, and Todd Friel stopped by for an interview at the
01:31:16: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio booth. This was a very good and interesting interview, as Todd gave his testimony of coming to the
01:31:24: Lord Jesus Christ. Well, I'm Chris Arnzen from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I'm here at the
01:31:29: G3 conference with the person I think I wanted to interview more than anybody else, Todd Friel of Wretched Radio.
01:31:36: That confirms it. You're out of your mind. Steve Lawson is here.
01:31:41: Phil Johnson is here. Vody Baucom is here. You're very confused. And Mr. Dapper, look at you with the pocket stuff.
01:31:49: There's just one thing missing from this outfit of yours. You forgot your razor. What's this?
01:31:56: Are you trying to become like a cool reformed guy? No, actually. I just shaved yesterday, and I'm very manly.
01:32:04: Good on you. And for those of our listeners who aren't aware,
01:32:11: I'd be shocked if they weren't, but Todd Friel is the host of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio. And as he said in a recent ad, an occasional guest on Chris's show,
01:32:21: Iron Sharpens Iron. I have been so blessed by your television program on NRB.
01:32:27: I don't get the local radio program in a station near where I am, but the NRB television program is a real blessing.
01:32:36: Can I tell you they're good folks there? We've got a new product that we created called
01:32:43: Drunk in the Spirit. It is a screed against the extreme nonsense that is going on in something called the
01:32:52: New Apostolic Reformation, which has about 365 million adherents.
01:32:58: I mean, that thing is like pedal to the metal going after it. Are they actually reviving that Drunk in the
01:33:04: Spirit thing? Oh, yeah. They're going to air it on NRB. Really? How courageous is that?
01:33:10: Yeah, you're right. Seriously, that might be the edgiest piece of Christian TV ever aired because the men at NRB, they're serious and they mean it.
01:33:21: And they're about the gospel. So it's a real treat because in so much of not so much radio, but more so in TV media, the
01:33:31: Christian TV is not good. And so when you run into one that is good, it's a joy.
01:33:38: Yeah. Unfortunately, a lot of the people that can afford to have TV programs are not necessarily the most faithful to the scriptures.
01:33:45: Well, I pondered that. Why is that? If you listen to most Christian radio stations overall, it's dominated by John MacArthur.
01:33:54: He's on 900 stations. R .C. Sproul. You hear these solid preachers overall because radio is a thinking type of media only that you've got to think when you're listening to somebody, blah, blah, blah.
01:34:08: You've got to be interested. You've got to be able to keep up. You've got to become educated in the subject matter. It requires thinking.
01:34:14: And so the conservative teaching that we hear overall is good. TV, however, is a visual media.
01:34:22: And these rascals who know how to put on a show have gotten there first. And they keep people entertained with the shenanigans and the antics and the big hair and all of the nonsense.
01:34:32: And they kind of dominate Christian TV. And I've got a little life's goal to change that.
01:34:39: Yeah. In fact, I don't know if you remember the late James Montgomery Boyce, but he purposely did not have a
01:34:45: TV ministry for a lot of the reasons that you mentioned. And that he thought that the video distracted from what he was saying.
01:34:54: But tell our listeners something about the basic concept of wretched
01:35:01: TV and wretched radio. What are the kinds of things that you address and whatnot? Yeah, we have a threefold purpose.
01:35:09: We want to preach the gospel, help people preach the gospel, and teach people how to apply the gospel to their lives because it is applicable.
01:35:17: The Bible does something. The Christian faith is active. And so we recognize, especially when you come to a conference like this, we're not the deep end of the theological pool.
01:35:28: We just want to try to find some folks who don't even know that there's water and to get them to dip their toe into it so that they can start getting immersed with better and better teaching.
01:35:38: So that's what we're about, ultimately, so that the local church will be strengthened, the pastor hopefully encouraged to stay faithful to the word, and then people that are participating in their local church will simply improve the local church.
01:35:53: Now, one thing that I have been wanting to ask you about that you haven't addressed with me on Iron Sherpa and Zarn before is something that you kind of left as a cliffhanger on wretched
01:36:03: TV once. You were discussing about pastors needing to hear the gospel too because sometimes men behind the pulpit are lost.
01:36:12: And you said at the end of the program, and that would include me, and then you walked away or something.
01:36:18: You were a lost man who was a pastor. Thankfully, I wasn't pastoring a church.
01:36:24: I studied to be a pastor, and I was a pagan. The application didn't ask, so I didn't tell.
01:36:34: I mean, I wouldn't have ever thought this way, but I learned years later that I was just a false professor.
01:36:43: You don't study about Jesus during the day and live like a devil at night. If you keep on sinning, you're of the devil.
01:36:51: And I was keeping on sinning. I was present and ongoing sin. I didn't love the
01:36:58: Lord. I wasn't grateful. And interestingly, it's not that the gospel was never presented that Jesus died for our sins.
01:37:08: I heard that a thousand times. And this is maybe an encouragement to pastors to ask themselves if they are ever pointing a finger at the congregation to say, and this day, you must respond.
01:37:22: You must repent and put your trust in Jesus Christ now. Today is the day of salvation.
01:37:29: Examine yourself. See if you're in the faith. And if not, humble yourself before the mighty hand of God.
01:37:34: Nobody ever challenged me. Nobody ever casted out the gospel net. I heard the gospel, but that's not the same as casting the net.
01:37:42: So we need to remember that there are people sitting in our congregations who've never been confronted to see where they are at with the
01:37:49: Lord. And that was me. So what kind of a religious atmosphere or upbringing did you have, if any?
01:37:56: And what were the providential things that the Lord brought into your life that actually drew you to himself in a saving way?
01:38:03: If you had reached the point where you're actually applying for pastoral positions and you realize you were lost, what happened before?
01:38:09: And what brought you to the point? I'm grateful for the education that I received because it was a classical education.
01:38:18: And so I studied Latin and Greek and Hebrew. Wow. Did all of that. So it was a very fine education.
01:38:24: And what I appreciated about it is they were very earnest about theology. You're talking about the seminary that you went to or your family?
01:38:32: Oh, no. Well, nobody in my family was a believer. Okay. Just talking about how I was trained to value the
01:38:39: Word of God and theology. So my issue, Chris, was not a lack of knowledge of theology.
01:38:46: When I got saved, the reason for it really was, what started it was listening to Chuck Swindoll on the radio.
01:38:54: You know, he's Insight for Living. And Chuck has a way of teaching without it sounding like theological highbrow business.
01:39:04: But I heard exactly what he was doing. It's like, oh, I see what he's doing there. He's taking that theology off the shelf and he's applying it to life.
01:39:13: And I increasingly was listening to him with a fascination that, wow, this all kind of fits together and does something.
01:39:22: And so my wife and I, we decided, we looked up Chuck Swindoll to see what he was.
01:39:28: And we found out that he was Evangelical Free Church of America. So we took out the yellow pages.
01:39:35: That dates the story, doesn't it? We took out the yellow pages and we looked for ECFA churches near us.
01:39:41: Well, one Sunday morning, I went. My wife stayed home. I went. And the pastor was just a godly preacher.
01:39:51: And I'm hesitating to tell the story because I'll start to cry. But he read something that simply devastated me.
01:39:59: And I don't think that I would ever share this. I don't think I'd ever preach it. Maybe you've seen it out on the internet.
01:40:06: It's pretty gloppy, but it's a letter to a friend from Jesus. Dear friend,
01:40:12: I watched you wake up this morning and I was hoping that you would stop and talk to me, but you didn't.
01:40:20: So I prepared a sunrise for you so when you walked out the door, you might be struck by the creation and talk to me.
01:40:29: Wow, Romans 1. But you didn't. You went throughout your day. I carried you through and I was hoping when you put your head on your pillow that you would stop and talk to me, but you didn't.
01:40:39: But that's okay. I'll wait for you because I love you. And that simply crushed me that I had been the most pride -filled, arrogant, obnoxious, foul jerk that has ever walked the planet.
01:40:58: And so I sat there in that chair. And so the pastor finishes reading this thing and he said, you are dismissed.
01:41:04: And I was like the, you talk about the king of ugly crying. I was like the big blub.
01:41:10: You know, I was like heaving and sobbing and snot and wiping out my face. And you are dismissed.
01:41:15: And I, what am I going to do? Just sitting here in a puddle of tears. And that is when
01:41:21: God was breaking me. Could I say it was that moment? Perhaps. I don't think the moment, but I know that that was the season.
01:41:31: And I don't even remember what year it was, frankly, but I remember when God got a hold of me and convicted me and crushed me and promised me that he would save me anyway.
01:41:42: And that was the season I got saved. And now immediately I knew that everything that I'd been doing as a pretend
01:41:49: Christian was just a ruse. And it was fake because I knew the difference.
01:41:55: I knew about Jesus. Now I know him. And it changed everything.
01:42:01: Oh, praise God. Yeah. Well, even after that rebirth, has there been any major changes in your theological perspectives over those years?
01:42:10: Oh, sure. You know, some, but overall, you know, pretty much the same.
01:42:16: Conservative, high view of scripture. I've changed in my understanding.
01:42:21: I would tweak my understanding a bit on eschatology, Lord's Supper, baptism, things, you know, just slightly different perspective.
01:42:28: But like I said, I'm grateful for the education I received. I just wasn't saved. That's all.
01:42:34: Actually, I did a little math once because I went to prep too. And we had chapel twice a day,
01:42:42: Monday through Friday. And then Saturday, I think we just had one chapel service and then church on Sunday.
01:42:48: And over the course, I ended up over the years, I went to church service chapel 2 ,700 times.
01:42:56: Wow. And I wasn't a Christian. Wow. Just because you talk about the gospel doesn't mean that people are getting the gospel.
01:43:05: So the encouragement would be preach the gospel. Don't, there's a bit of a movement.
01:43:12: It's not organized. But in evangelical Christianity, there's a big push about the gospel.
01:43:18: It's all about the gospel. Well, you go and listen to some of those sermons. And they use the word gospel a ton.
01:43:23: Isn't the gospel amazing? The gospel is so incredible. I love the gospel.
01:43:29: Isn't it gospelicious? But they never preach the gospel. Preach the gospel.
01:43:36: And if somebody complains, preach it to them more because they probably need to hear it. Because those of us who are born again love to hear it.
01:43:44: Yeah, I think that the perception I get is that most evangelicals, whether they are in the pew or on a
01:43:52: TV screen or even a radio station, are teaching that the gospel is that Jesus loves you, so invite
01:43:59: Him into your heart. Yeah. That's the gospel. Sure. Yeah, that's not good. Now, look, it's hard every week to try, okay, how do
01:44:09: I talk about Calvary again? So I get that there's a bit of a challenge to that.
01:44:15: But don't worry, Pastor, you can repeat yourself. We're okay with that. Use your text to get us to Calvary.
01:44:23: And that will make it inventive sounding. You know, it'll be clever enough, unique enough sounding.
01:44:29: But get us there. Sir, we would see Jesus. So get to the cross and camp there. Amen. Now, you have had an opportunity to interview,
01:44:38: I don't know if you've interviewed all of the key speakers here, or all of the speakers, period. Oh, but Vodie Baucom, who didn't show up, but I'm not going to name names.
01:44:48: That's interesting, because I've been trying to get him on my show. Completely bailed. You'd think he was living in Africa or something.
01:44:58: But I was wondering if you can summarize, perhaps, the essence of what is most vital that the folks that you interviewed over the course of the time that you've been here, about the,
01:45:13: I'm assuming that some of the content had to do with the 500th anniversary of the Reformation, which is the theme of this conference, obviously.
01:45:19: Anything that you care to share that you could walk away with? You know, I'd summarize the interviews that I've had with Steve Lawson, Phil Johnson, James White, Nathan Buznitz, Whippersnapper out of MasterSem.
01:45:32: Sharp. Boy, he gave us a 1500 -year history of the Catholic Church, how to understand, okay, when did it get off the rails?
01:45:41: When did this happen? Brilliant young man. And I would say that the theme throughout all of those conversations, and we talked about justification, and propitiation, and atonement, and adoption, and expiation, and all the big
01:45:52: Reformation words, but I think I would summarize it based on the t -shirts that we've been seeing walking around here at the
01:45:59: G3 conference. Did you see the quote from Martin Luther on the back of the t -shirts from the people who are running this thing? Did you read the quote?
01:46:05: No, what is it? I'm paraphrasing, but it's pretty close. Martin Luther, give me
01:46:11: Scripture. I'll say it again, Scripture, Scripture, Scripture.
01:46:17: Did you hear me? Scripture. That's really what it says. It's about the
01:46:23: Bible. Amen. And it's about that being our source of authority, our source of everything. The Protestant Reformation was about authority.
01:46:31: Is it the vicar of Christ in Rome, or is it Jesus Christ? Is it tradition in the magisterium, or is it the
01:46:38: Word of God? So that the Word just kept coming through, the proclamation of the Word, the recapturing of the
01:46:44: Word, the translating of the Word into the language of the people. So the theme really throughout all of it was the authority of the
01:46:52: Word. Amen. And what an uncomfortable moment it was recently.
01:46:57: As you may remember from our last interview, last week I had a debate, another debate that I organized between a
01:47:05: Roman Catholic, Robert St. Genes of Catholic Apologetics International, and my friend
01:47:11: Dr. Tony Costa. If you're not familiar with him yet, you need to be. He's a professor of apologetics at Toronto Baptist Seminary, a friend of Dr.
01:47:18: James R. White, who actually introduced him to me. And they debated on Mary, a sinless queen of heaven, or a sinner saved by grace.
01:47:27: Great title. And Dr. St. Genes knew that he could not maintain any kind of credible defense for Rome's teachings about Mary by remaining with a biblical discussion.
01:47:41: So he kept trying to steer the ship to focus on sola scriptura, which he obviously denies.
01:47:49: And when Dr. Costa had brought up the fact that only scripture is described in scripture as theianustos,
01:47:59: God -breathed, that's the only thing that we have that is from the breath of God. And to hear
01:48:04: Dr. St. Genes, the Catholic apologist, say, who cares, actually said that, just means it's a little more special.
01:48:13: That's all it means. Wow. He was backed into a corner, running out of arguments, and out of the anger and frustration, really revealed the heart of Catholicism, is that, who cares, because our traditions mean just as much, if not more, because they trump what the
01:48:30: Bible says. And you actually had the role of speaking on, it was
01:48:36: Peter the first pope. No. You're dismissed.
01:48:42: Yeah. In fact, I won the Puritan award at the conference because it was a three -point sermon, but the first point actually had 25 sub -points.
01:48:51: So I win the Puritan sub -point award with 25. You have to see a group of people say, everybody's up and paying attention because it's just starting.
01:49:04: And we're going to talk about, is Peter the first pope? And I have three points, and the first point has 25 sub -points.
01:49:13: Oh, just everybody slumps, and just the air leaves the room.
01:49:20: 25 points. So I broke it up in three points. Basically, when we look at it biblically,
01:49:26: I'm a theological nincompoop. By myself, without reading commentaries,
01:49:32: I was simply able to come up with 25 reasons biblically why Peter is not the first pope, and a few of my favorites, if you don't mind.
01:49:39: It's Matthew 16, 13 through 18 of the contested verses. On the ring of the Sistine Chapel, there are two
01:49:44: Bible verses. Thou art Peter, and on this rock, I will build my church, and I give you the keys to the kingdom. I only tackle the first one.
01:49:52: Is Peter really the rock? Well, if you read the very next story,
01:49:57: Jesus now, having said, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock, I will build my church. We, of course, believe it's confession.
01:50:05: The Greek language, you know that. But look at the next story. Jesus now starts to get specific.
01:50:11: I must go to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man must be turned over. I'm going to die.
01:50:19: And Peter, again, jumps up. Forbid it, Lord. This was never going to happen to you.
01:50:26: And Jesus turned and looked to the new pope, the Holy Father, the Vicar of Christ, and said,
01:50:32: Get behind me, Satan, which is a pretty good sign that he had not simply just been installed as the new pope, that he was a sinner.
01:50:40: And we see this again, then, in Matthew 18. The disciples come and ask
01:50:45: Jesus, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? Please note, Jesus did not say, Hello, knuckleheads.
01:50:51: Weren't you listening? I just said it was Peter. I'm building my church. He's the most special.
01:50:57: Why weren't you paying attention? Apparently, the disciples didn't get that message because Jesus didn't deliver it.
01:51:02: He was talking about himself. And even if you want to say that Peter is the rock, okay, what was
01:51:09: Peter all about? Same as Paul, he preached Christ and him crucified. So no matter how you slice it, the cornerstone is not
01:51:17: Peter. It's Jesus Christ. I'm sorry. But when you look through the Old Testament, too, in Zion, I lay a cornerstone.
01:51:26: Isaiah was talking about the Messiah. The Old Testament understood who the rock was. Think about Jesus in Exodus 17.
01:51:33: And the rock was Christ, 1 Corinthians 10, about the rock and the water and the splitting of it.
01:51:40: The Bible always points to the rock in the Old Testament, Psalm 18. You can read it three times.
01:51:46: God is the rock. The rock is God. In other words, the rock is divine all throughout
01:51:52: Scripture. So for Jesus to say to Peter, You're the rock, is simply preposterous.
01:51:58: So that was point one, 25 of those, basically. Then we got into, historically, we took a look at the bloody and tawdry history of the office of papacy, which wasn't pleasant.
01:52:11: And then we got to my favorite part, which was point three. Confessionally, Peter was making it clear he was not the first pope.
01:52:21: What did he say? The confession that was God revealed to him. Thou art the
01:52:26: Christ, the Son of the living God. Thou art the Messiah. He was making the same confession the entire
01:52:35: Old Testament had been making. There is a Messiah to come. Look for the
01:52:40: Messiah. Because the Bible is all about one subject, that Messiah. And as you make your way through the
01:52:46: Old Testament, it's preaching about the Messiah. It's preaching about forgiveness of sins. It's preaching about the need to be justified.
01:52:54: It's the sacrificial system. It's Passover that's a picture of Jesus. It's Isaac that's a picture of Jesus.
01:52:59: It's the ladder that's a picture of Jesus. Assurity, the tabernacle, the bread of life.
01:53:05: He's the manna. He's the ark of our salvation. He's the door that we must enter through to be saved.
01:53:11: Jesus is in the Old Testament because that is what God is doing.
01:53:17: Ephesians 2, 1 -10, the reason for the planet is for God to send his son to save sinners that he might be glorified for his loving kindness.
01:53:28: With that in mind, Peter was making that confession. This is the one.
01:53:36: And that is why the church's one foundation is Jesus Christ, her Lord, not
01:53:42: Peter. Amen. And I know that you said you could only spend 20 minutes with us, so I'll let you summarize.
01:53:49: Has it been 20 minutes? Yeah, believe it or not. Yeah, but if you could let our listeners know in summary form.
01:53:57: You kind of made me sound like a jerk with that. You could only stay 20 minutes, hotshot.
01:54:05: Listen, I want to stay married. My wife is down the aisle and I'm looking at her.
01:54:10: She's being gracious. I'll tell you what, you can make it up to me by the next time you're on Iron Sharpens Iron over the phone.
01:54:16: Be on for an hour at least. Aha, so this is sort of a little scam that you've got going, a little chess game you're playing.
01:54:26: All right, I understand you better now. If you could summarize what you want my listeners, both
01:54:34: Catholic and Protestant or otherwise, with what they should most bring home with them in regard to the summary of what the
01:54:44: Reformation stood for. Yeah. Because obviously, as Phil Johnson said, and I'm sure you agree, that evangelicals need just as much of a
01:54:51: Reformation today as Rome did. Yeah, yeah, I think he's right, which is a pretty provocative statement. Let me speak specifically to the
01:54:58: Roman Catholic who might be listening. I understand you. In fact, all of human history understands you.
01:55:05: We are bent toward working our way to heaven. We just, we want to do something to clean up ourselves.
01:55:15: The gospel of Jesus Christ comes along and it crushes that and it announces at its core, the gospel says, no, you can't.
01:55:26: So I understand why you try to do things. You think that baptism is a necessary thing, a work that you must do, acts of love, taking the
01:55:37: Eucharist, doing confession, last rites, not committing any mortal sins. I understand that because that's the way we're all bent.
01:55:44: But Jesus has a rather staggering message for you. Stop it. Stop it.
01:55:50: You can't. And the reason that even very nice people who pay their taxes and they mow their yard, they even edge the lawn, are not pleasing to God is because every good thing that we do is offered with sin -stained hands.
01:56:05: Think of it like receiving a beautiful bouquet of flowers. And as you look at the flowers and smell them and appreciate them, you notice the hand that is attached to them, that is giving them to you is connected to Adolf Hitler.
01:56:20: You'd go, you know, I, okay. Look, Adolf Hitler was a wicked man.
01:56:27: How many sins did he commit? I don't know, but I know how many I committed. And our hands are dirty.
01:56:33: So even the good things that we do are not pleasing to God. And Jesus has some great news for you.
01:56:40: If you've done bad things, and you have, because again, you're like me. You've done bad things.
01:56:46: You've broken God's laws. And unlike so often the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, God is serious about justice.
01:56:53: And he is going to judge every deed done in darkness. In fact, the psalmist said, you know my words before I speak them.
01:57:01: Even the Old Testament supports what Jesus said when he said, you've heard it said of all, thou shall not commit adultery.
01:57:07: I say, you look at a woman with lust. You've committed adultery in your heart. He's going to judge our thought life.
01:57:13: My Roman Catholic friend, you have a sin problem like me, like Chris.
01:57:20: And the gospel has more news for you. And this is the good news.
01:57:27: Jesus can. You can't, and Jesus can, and Jesus did.
01:57:32: Jesus paid it all. All of your sins, past, present, and future, gone. And think about it from this perspective.
01:57:39: If you can get to heaven and say, I gave this much money. I did this many confessional. I said my rosary this many times.
01:57:47: I did this many acts of charity. Who can take some credit for your salvation?
01:57:53: You can. And he is God, and he will not give his glory to another.
01:57:59: You can't. Jesus did, and he's going to get all the credit for saving you, because he's everything you need for salvation.
01:58:07: So if you have been relying on the traditions of men, Jesus warned about this in John chapter 6.
01:58:12: You've exchanged the teaching of the word for the teachings of men. It was a rebuke to them. And it's a rebuke to you today if you've been trusting in traditions that are not found in the
01:58:22: Bible. By grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves. It is a gift of God, not of works.
01:58:29: So that nobody can boast. If you have never repented, told
01:58:36: God you're sorry for your sins, turned from your sins, not in perfection, but in a new direction, stopping sinning, and put your trust in Jesus Christ, you have his promise.
01:58:47: He will not cast you out. In fact, he will save you to the uttermost. And it gets even better.
01:58:54: Contrary to what the traditions of men teach, you will be in his hand and nobody can snatch you out of it.
01:59:02: You will be eternally secure in the Savior who did it all for you.
01:59:08: Repent and trust that good Savior today, and you will inherit everlasting life.
01:59:15: Amen. Well, thank you so much, Todd, for being on the program, for making time in this busy schedule at G3 to sit here with me.
01:59:23: I'm honored. I'm delighted. I always love it, bro. I really, I do enjoy it. And I'm sorry to, like, scoot on you.
01:59:29: No, that's quite all right. Yeah. I understand. But I've got about an hour -long ride home with my wife, and it can be a pleasant ride or not.
01:59:38: Or a silent ride. And that is all up to you. So your call. All right.
01:59:43: God bless you, brother. Keep up the great work. Looking forward to your return. I hope these interviews today have been a blessing to you.
01:59:50: And as Chris always says, I hope that you will remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater