Dawain Atkinson Returns: New Podcast, New Music, Same Swag! DMW#204

Exploring theology, doctrine, and all of the fascinating subjects in between. Broadcasting from an undisclosed location. Dead Men Walking starts now. Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking podcast.

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We've got a lot of cool stuff coming up for you in 2024. Still haven't done our year-end program and we're getting into the end of January here, but we'll put that together soon. You guys can kind of have some highlights of 2023, some of the guests we had on Conversations.

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Yes, I'm coming off a Lions, Detroit Lions win over the Bucs. That was great. Any of you that've listened for any amount of time know that I'm in Michigan. We say undisclosed location at the top of the show, but let's be real.

You guys all know where I'm at after four years. It's, uh, we probably should change that. Uh, but yeah, they're going to face San Francisco. I will admit we had small group last night, started at six o 'clock.

Uh, our small group leader said, Hey, some people are coming in late. Let's watch the last two minutes. We wrote it out to six 15, started small group late about 15 minutes, and then got into a really good study on, uh, Ecclesiastes, but, um, it was, it was a great win and, uh, that was fun, but I don't want to talk about that too much.

The Podcast Friendship That Started in 2020

Uh, we have, it's a family episode. And by that, I mean, you guys, uh, know who this guy is here that I'm going to introduce. If you've listened for any amount of time, I've said it many times on this podcast, two, three weeks in two, three episodes in, in April, 2020, uh, this guy messaged me.

He said, Hey, I like what you're doing. I want to support you. Anything you need, brother. Let me know early adopter. Uh, couldn't have been nicer. Very supportive, helped me along the bumpy way in the beginning of a podcast.

Almost four years ago, got to meet him down at the G three, uh, national conference of 2021. He's the host of the bar podcast. That's biblical and reformed, got a new podcast coming out that we're going to be talking about.

It's the one it's the only Dwayne Atkinson. How are you doing?

What's up brother, brother, brother. Thank you so much for having me on. And also congratulations, man. I was rooting for you guys yesterday. Uh, man, it's just a good time to be in the state of Michigan, man.

Y 'all win the national, uh, you know, I'm, I'm, I like y 'all, man. I've always been a fan of that area. You know, as a kid, you get to, you know, have certain teams and I like the fast five when they were there at Michigan.

And, you know, I liked the Detroit Pistons at one time, you know, so, uh, and you know, Barry Sanders. So I, yeah, it's all love, man.

Yeah. It's cool too, because kind of the two teams that have really given us some, uh, popularity in the last 20 years is the Oh four Pistons, which made it, you know, won the championship and they were all, their motto was get to work.

No superstars, you know, you had the Rashid Wallace, the Ben Wallace, all those guys, uh, Tayshaun princes. And then, uh, the lines kind of mirror that as well. Mirror in the city, man, grit, get to work.

No one's getting paid tens and 20 millions of dollars. I mean, the private paid after this year, let's, let's be honest, but right. Uh, just get into work, which really does, man. I for the first three years of my real estate career and just a gritty, just, uh, sometimes stubborn, uh, to a fault.

I mean, I was, I was valuing houses that were worth $7 ,000 burndowns. And then right next to it, a gorgeous pre 1900 brick ranch with wrought iron fence, you know, and it's next to a burndown drug house.

And I would talk to the people and they go, look at this, my city. I've been here seven generations. We ain't moving. Uh, that's why I take care of my house and my, you know, my property. And I don't care what's going on around me and it's turning around, man.

They've got some good leadership in there. I think it's reflected in the sports team. And I want to see cities like Detroit and some of these, you know, as, uh, when you're politically on the rider, if you're more conservative, you kind of like to see people like to see cities fail like that.

Go, Oh, see, they're all Democrat strongholds and liberals. And it's like, man, those are people in those cities. And, um, you know, when you have wise and unrighteous, uh, leaders that people rejoice, you know, and when you have unwise and unrighteous leaders, they grown.

So Detroit's making a comeback. The team's doing good, but we didn't, uh, get on here to talk about football, though. We probably could, uh, for the whole episode, but I got to know about this new podcast coming out.

Uh, listen to bar bar obviously been around for what were you going on seven years on that eight year. I mean, you've been.

Around a little bit, right? Yeah. I mean, man, we've been around a little bit. We're actually coming up on 10, man. 10. Oh my goodness. Oh, so you were a vet.

You were a vet when I started. Yeah. And, uh, I mean, some, some exclusive interviews that you've done. Uh, sometimes people only come to you to talk about certain stuff. We were talking about that before we started recording.

So guys, if you're listening to this right now, pause it, go, uh, find bar on anywhere you find podcasts and at least subscribe to that. Start listening to those episodes. I'm a big supporter of Dwayne and what he's doing.

Um, but I want to know about this new podcast. Give us a, I don't even know the name of that. I don't even know. You just said, Hey, I got something new coming out. I said, come on, we got, we got to talk about it.

Absolutely. So before I can't talk about a new one without giving kind of an update on the bar, uh, the last year I have a, a, a new, a new job, which is in fitness and also social media, also podcasting.

And so, uh, I wasn't able to, uh, get as many interviews or at my schedule didn't permit. So I have to curve, carve out a space to shout out, uh, my man, David from, uh, exposit the word. He actually reached out and said, Hey, Dwayne, I love the guest host your podcast.

He came in guest hosted my podcast. He's been doing it for the last six months. Also had the shout out, Nick. Uh, Nick does all the audio engineering and also, uh, Jessica Clark. She does all the videos.

So anything you see with the bar podcast, uh, Dave is doing an amazing job. Yep. Still getting amazing. It's like some of the people he's getting on interviews. I'm a little jealous. Like, you know, he's getting people that I, that I used to chase, man.

He, he seemed to be getting them pretty easy, man. So he's getting still, still amazing guests. Uh, you, you just don't get my voice every time, but it's still the same, uh, stellar, uh, you know, I always call it the entry, the gateway drug to, uh, to reform theology, uh, is, is the bar still the same quality brand of the bar podcast.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And that was my vision, man. I always wanted to be bigger than me. You know, I always wanted to be able to go on without me. And so I'm super grateful to God that that's the case.

The Four Truth Podcast and Its Word-of-Faith Background

So the new podcast, man, it was one of the many things birthed out of the pandemic. Um, you know, everybody was locked in and, um, I had three really good friends that I met through social media, you know, because of the whole reform.

And, uh, we, we actually met for the very first time at G3, uh, like a lot of relationships. Um, and we were connected and we started doing family Bible studies. We picked Friday night, we'll get on zoom, all four families on zoom, and we would go through books of the Bible.

The first thing, the first one we did was Romans and we literally walked through verse by verse through Romans. Uh, then we would do other studies and you know me, man, I, I'm always looking and listening and I recognize, you know, good podcasts and you know, reason why I reached out to you way back when I saw you had something, had something good, man.

And so I noticed the chemistry between me and these three other brothers. And, uh, and I was like, man, we need to do a podcast. And of course, you know, uh, people that aren't used to being behind a microphone and camera, you know, it was a lot of, uh, uh, twisting arms and bringing it back up.

And, uh, and so finally got them on board, man. And we, uh, created what we call the four truth podcast, man. And, um, we launched it a different style, uh, and, and, you know, and we'll get into the details, but that's just kind of the, the background or the genesis of it, where it actually came from.

And you said four truth podcast.

The number four, four, four of you.

And what are we going to be talking about? Are we going through the Bible? Are we taking, uh, like theological subjects or Bible verses or what are we, is it just life or what is it?

Yeah.

So I'm glad you asked. So to what the approach we're taking, we, we all come from the same background, which is the word of faith, a charismatic movement. And so we actually take in kind of a, I guess you could say hot takes or hot topics, uh, like different evergreen things that are still going on.

Like the very first episode is called snatch from the fire. You know, just talking about our story. We're coming out of that. You know, we all have some of the backgrounds, but we all have, there's different details, you know, in the next episode is the gospel.

And we talk about what is the gospel and, you know, what is it not, you know, and the importance of it, you know, so it was more topical. But, uh, it's super evergreen because you know, those, those, you know, we still fight with and deal with, you know, bad theology all the time.

And so it's, it's definitely relevant.

The Four Brothers Behind the New Show

Yes.

Can you shout out the other three guys that are, that you're doing the podcast with?

Absolutely, man. So I have to start, uh, with the one I known the longest, uh, his name, his real name, he going to get me is Willie Ward, but, uh, but, uh, his nickname is a snap is, uh, in, um, where it's not Santee, South Carolina.

Um, he, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a wise old country fella. Uh, that, that, uh, has, has a distinct voice. You'll definitely recognize snap soon as he started talking. Um, then I have to shout out Ryan.

Uh, Ryan Watson is in, uh, Columbia, South Carolina. Um, Ryan is, uh, uh, uh, he's, he's our in-house theologian. You know, he, he's the reader writer. And then, uh, my man, Maceo Maceo Biggers is in, uh, Ohio and Maceo is, uh, is the body guard.

He's about six, five, about, uh, you know, two 30 plus and, uh, but no,.

Keeping everyone in line on the podcast, huh?

Yeah, man.

Yeah.

But no, Mace, Maceo is a lover of the word, man. And, uh, you know, he, he always had really good input.

So have, has any of the episodes launched yet?

Yes.

So like I mentioned, this is a different kind of a launch. Um, I am a fan of 80, I mean, nineties R &B and hip hop, which we'll talk about later, but, um, uh, I wanted to release this, this, uh, this podcast, like an album, um, this is side a of this podcast.

Uh, everybody remember the cassette tape? If you don't, I'm aging myself. It's okay. It's a little thing you put in the car. It had a little tape. So side a, uh, of this podcast, and this has, uh, five episodes that all dropped on the exact same day.

So you can listen to all five episodes. We've already recorded side B and we're going to drop that at a later date. And, uh, and that'd be the, the end of that album. I was really unique about this. This podcast is each intro song is, uh, is not just the same old thing.

Each intro song gives you kind of a prelude to what the episode is. So I have to shout out my man, Jonathan, uh, uh, AKA sound of the rain is his, uh, is his rap name. But every, uh, every, uh, episode begins with a verse that tells you what the episode is about.

And the very first, uh, I guess you could say episode on the podcast is what we call the table of context. And it is all five verses put together in one song. So it's, uh, super musical, uh, sorta kind of, you know, something I I'm really excited about.

Um, and also I have to shut out buddy, my man, buddy. Uh, he, he actually took the hard work of, uh, the audio, um, engineering and editing off of my shoulders. And I'm grateful for that. And he did an amazing job as well.

So that put together the four true podcast side, eight, all five episodes are available right now, uh, wherever you listen to podcasts.

Release Strategy, Episode Length, and Podcast Cadence

Now, see, I kind of like that idea and that seems like it's a, a newer idea to drop kind of the episodic podcast all at the same time like that. Um, you see that a little bit on like on video formats, like on prime and Netflix and things like that, where, uh, where they might drop like five at a time and then give you, give you a month or so and five at another time.

And it allows you to go really long format and then break it up kind of into, I mean, each episode, how long is it? Is it, is it approaching an hour or more or what is it?

Yeah. Yeah.

It's about, it's in between 30 to 45 minutes. Um, we, you know, we have one that, that goes a little bit longer to into the 50 range, but they're not terribly long. Um, and you know, we don't exhaust the point, you know, and, and, you know, we're not just thinking three hour long podcast, you know, I love my guys.

Uh, they just recorded a three hour long podcast Saturday. I was like, God, man, I don't even know how y 'all do that, but yeah, it's, it's more, more of a, the 30 to 45 minute, but it's like I said, it's episode after episode, but you can knock it all out.

And, uh, and, and like you said, we kind of got the idea from the Netflix and from the, you know, the streaming services because, uh, that, that actually people prefer that, you know, instead of having to wait a whole another week, you know, if I got more time, I want to keep listening, you know, that's what people do when they find your podcast, they, they all found a podcast, they go all the way down and try to listen all the way through.

So absolutely did it that for me.

Yeah.

I think it's really smart to be in that under hour, closer to that 30 to 45 minute range, I noticed, and I've said about this on the podcast before, when you look at analytics, most of my, most of my listeners, um, they'll, they'll drop off at like the 40 minute mark.

And whether that's because I'm a, on the way to work podcast or they just can't take me for any more than 40 minutes and they go, okay, I don't want to listen to this guy anymore, but yeah, I've been told that too.

I realized very quickly, uh, you know, the first, and we talked about this almost four years ago, I was, you know, you had this idea, like I'm going to be this Joe Rogan long format, you know, you do a couple two and a half hour podcasts in a week and you go, I'm going to not only run out of things to say, but I'm just bill laboring things that don't need to be belabored to where I've.

Found.

And I think you would agree with this. Tell me what you think. I think being a more succinct, uh, being more efficient with your words, uh, packing a lot of value into a shorter amount of time, people seem to respond to that.

They go, Hey, look at, give me, give me the thoughts, the opinions, the scriptures, whatever it is we're talking about, but you can package it in a really nice 30 to 40 minute audio package to where sure you could, you know, if that's the podcast you want to go for, where you're hanging out for three hours and things are belabored.

But if not, um, I found people really go that, that went, that hit good, you know, 32 minutes driving to work, driving back right before I went to bed, whatever, and got, got everything in there. Um, have you kind of found that?

Cause like you said, 10 years on bar, you're starting this new one. I know you've helped many, many podcasters out in the podcasting reformed world. You're kind of known as the Godfather that will go around and kind of help and give suggestions and point people to the other people they need to network with.

Have you found that to be the case? I mean, where do you land when you're looking at episode length and things like.

That?

What's your philosophy on that?

No, absolutely. Same, same as you. Um, and I always tell people, you know, you want the average commute is 30 to 45 minutes and that's a good, uh, you know, place to land. And, um, and, and I always joke because, you know, I call myself the, the expert.

Man.

And, and, uh, and my most popular podcast and most notable podcast breaks all the rules that I tell everybody else to do. You know, I say, keep it 30 to 45 minutes, you know, I say drop every week or be more succinct or, you know, or, or, or have a cadence and then just think it comes through and they have three hour episodes and then they drop whenever they feel like it and there's no cadence.

There's no, you know, and they're, they're the most successful, but for us regular folks that, that aren't dealing with two, uh, two geniuses, uh, behind the microphone for us, regular folks, 30 to 45 minutes is a really good cadence.

Like you mentioned, um, when, when you're developing your podcast, uh, you, you want to, you want it to be poignant. You want to be able to come in, hit your topic. You want to keep it moving. You don't want dead space.

You want to continue to keep people engaged. Um, as well as your, your guests. If you have a guest, you don't want it to be long, dry, or, you know, drawn out. You want to make sure that you keep, keep them engaged, keep their, keep a cadence to your podcast.

That's something that I pride myself in is cadence and just making sure that everything has, has a rhythm.

How Just Thinking Podcast Was Formed

Yeah.

I think you bring up a really good point for those listening to that might, uh, be listen listeners of podcasts, consumers, or even have the one themselves as yeah. I was not, definitely not saying you can't do long format because there are some guys out there, uh, like, like, uh, Daryl and those guys just thinking, I mean, that works for them because man, when I discovered them and you're, and I know that you're involved with that podcast.

I can't remember exactly how, but you can, you can let us know. I remember it had to at least be four years ago. I don't know how old that podcast is, but it was, I was an early adopter and I remember I was out doing yard work while listening to it and I had to keep re like I say, rewind.

I'm from the eighties, but going back, tracking back on it and I couldn't get my work done because it was so heavy and so thought provoking. And I'm going, hold on. I got to listen to that two minutes again.

What did he say?

You know, I'm out there raking and doing stuff and I go, okay, I can't, this isn't a podcast where I can do something else while I'm listening. I literally sat down and probably went through two or three of their couple hour podcasts right in a row and shout out to them because, um, I benefited greatly from some of the social stuff that they talk about, the gospel stuff they talk about, even their takes that, you know, you could say are political, but they're not really, they're, they're the gospel.

It's just that, you know, uh, the world has become more religious. I don't think, uh, the church has become more political. Um, you know, it's my take on it, but what, what is your role with, uh, just thinking don't, don't you, I think producer or something, or I couldn't remember.

Yeah, no, I mean, it's just a small role. I'm just the only, the person that, that, that put them together. Uh, I was, I was, I was already friends. Yeah, man, I was already friends with Virgil. Uh, we met through a Facebook page that I started, man, a lot of years ago now.

Um, and we were already friends. And then, um, uh, a good friend of mine, McKinley sent me Daryl's, uh, article on, uh, woke, wokeness in the black church. And so I interviewed him. And when I interviewed him, I was like, man, I was like, you sound like Virgil.

Like y 'all talk about this topic. I like, yeah. And so I told Virgil and Virgil was like, man, you know, I would love to guest host your show and interview him for a part two. And we did. And when I heard them together, I was like, I think we got a podcast here, man.

Yeah, man. So yeah, I, I pretty much put just thinking together.

Um, he said just a small role. I just created the thing. No, I'm just kidding.

Yeah, no, for real though.

That's funny.

Yeah.

Okay.

I knew I didn't.

That's my role.

In the back of my head. I thought it was something like that, but I didn't want to state it, you know, on the recording, unless it was accurate, but I'm glad that you cleared it up.

Yeah.

But yeah, another podcast that people should go check out. And like you said, you don't know when they're dropping and for how long, but when you do, you go, yeah, I'm going to listen to it because they provide some, uh, unbelievable content, uh, just like you do.

So you got the new podcast for truth. You can find it anywhere. Do you want to direct people to a website or what are we doing?

Yeah, man. No, no website. Uh, we're going to poor man route. So, uh, just for your favorite, favorite podcast catcher, uh, or if you want to do the whole link tree, uh, thing, uh, you can do the, what is it?

Link? Yeah.

T R dot E E slash the number four true podcast. Um, and it's pretty much a direct link to, uh, whatever your podcast app you like to.

Use.

Um, but yeah, man, we're, we're, we're super excited about it, man, because it's different, it's a different format. Um, and then I just love the musical aspect of it. That's just, I mean, like, and I told the guys, I was like, man, if nobody listens to this, man, I'm, I'm just proud that, you know, cause it's like, I've been doing podcasts for so long, man.

And just for me to step outside of the box and just do something untraditional. Um, and, and the irony is we recorded the episodes like almost a year ago and we're just dropping it now. Like I literally wanted to take my time and figure out how I wanted to orchestrate it before I released it, because I've been the, you know, record the night, drop the Mar guy.

I've been the, you know, let's hurry up, produce whatever I've been that guy. So I was like, this time I'm going to take my time. I'm going to find the right producer. I'm going to find the right lyrics.

I'm going to, you know, we're going to get the right graphic. We're going to, you know, and it's, it's been an amazing journey.

I'm laughing because that's what we're doing right now. I think this will drop Wednesday. We're recording on a Monday, so it got about 48 hour turnaround, baby. You know, uh, but, but you know, cause that's a tough thing too.

People don't realize for 10 years, almost for you and then almost every week having some type of new guest on for you, I've been doing it, there'll be four years in April and sometimes you're going, you know, you want to grab someone that has some value that can speak to something.

Uh, they, they have to be good in a conversation. You might have, you know, and then you get some guys that you get on and you go, this is going to be awesome. And you go, I don't know. You get some surprise ones.

And then like you said, you get some that you go, man, I can't wait to have you on. And they're like, I don't want anything to do with that. I'm not good in front of a camera or a microphone. And you go, Oh, come on in conversation.

We can, you know, so that's a struggle.

So I'm going to ask you this real quick. I'm going to ask you this real quick. What's worse, the guests you got to drag and pull stuff out of, or the guest that talks too much and don't give you the breaks that you need, which one is the toughest for you?

You know, it's, you know, it's funny. Um, I would probably say I don't notice the one that I have to drag out of because I'll just, I'll just talk over them and it'll be 80 me talking, which is fine.

But the, probably the listeners going, shut up, Greg. But the, but the one that taught the one that talks over is hard too, man. I got, I got a touch of ADD. I'm extroverted. It's like you go for more than five minutes straight.

I only got the first two minutes I'm in my head thinking about when I edit this, what am I, you know, and then all of a sudden there's silence and I go, Oh, we're still talking, you know?

Yeah. It's, it's tough either way.

It's gotta be balanced. I think.

Yeah, I had a, I had a, I had a, I had one guest. I love the brother. His name is Greg. We're good friends and he was nervous, but I asked him one question and like SpongeBob 30 minutes later for one question, I was like, I was like, when he finished, I was like, all right guys, good episode.

Uh, we'll check in next week.

Oh, I, I got a good one for you too, since we're just having a conversation here. So man, this was like three years ago. So maybe I was, we were like eight months, nine months. And this is when I still had Jason Hamlin, the former co-host with me on the podcast.

And, uh, there was a, there was a guy at a Ford factory in Detroit who yelled at Biden when he came and visited and said like, Hey, you can't take our guns or something about the union or something.

Right.

And it blew up. It went viral. He was in his bib overalls and he mouthed off to Biden and he was on Fox news. That's right. Well, he comes to a rally in Monroe for something. So I get him a size that, Hey, I'm about 20 minutes South.

You want to come do an episode? Well, before they say you believe her, he goes, yeah, I'm a believer. This I conservative. I go, this could be interesting.

Right?

He's got a little viral stuff going on. Well, I'll ask him some questions. We get down here, we start recording. It is like night and day. He starts talking about, he's like trying to be an intellectual.

It was like talking about mysticism and Jordan Peterson, but not good. It was like, it was like, he didn't understand any of it. And he was trying to almost me and Jason are sitting there. And if we just looked at each other at about 55 minutes in, and we're like, none of this is usable.

I mean, we literally said, thank you. Two hours later, as soon as we cut my co-host, he was like, I got to go. I got my kids at home. I'm like, you son of a gun leaving me here with this guy. He talked for another 45 minutes.

Uh, I mean, it just went right in the recycle bin. I didn't even post it. None of it was usable. I mean, I don't, I'm not talking bad about the guy, but it was not what he had presented and you just go, well, you live and learn.

That's what I get for trying to chase a viral moment.

Right.

In my head, I go, this is going to be unbelievable. And then it turned out to be garbage.

I got, I don't know if I got your beat. So I got, I got reached out on Instagram. This guy, I mean, he, he, you know, he, he looked apart. He looked warm. He was quoting, quoting the right quotes and everything we got on.

And, uh, and it was going good. All going good. I, you know, I had to end, I asked you like, okay, who you like to listen to?

Yeah.

Uh, you know, your favorite pastor, whatever. He's like, yeah, like TD Jake's and, uh, uh, Miles. I mean, he was naming all the word of faith. I was like, what?

You're like, what happened?

I was like, yeah, I like, I like, uh, uh, Mike Murdoch. And, uh, I was like, yeah, yeah, man. So when we finished, I was like, yeah, I'm not gonna be able to use this. Um, so, uh, just, I appreciate your time.

He was like, I can't, I can't, I can say somebody else. You want to rerecord it? I was like, nah, I'm good. Like, yeah, we appreciate you brother.

So that's, that's, that's a crazy thing too, because in person, when I'm talking to people, I can be a little confrontational. I like debate. I like discussion. I like playing devil's advocate. Even I find you can learn a lot about someone by the way that they argue or debate or, you know, questions bring out things, but I'm not really that way on the podcast because I don't know if people want to listen to me just, uh, you know, argue blindly about something.

I try not to be too confrontational. There's been a few moments where like Sam storms came back on after he defended Bethel music and he said, well, you know, uh, Bill Johnson isn't a theologian, so we can't really hold him to a high standard.

He said, dude, he's a shepherd. He said, he's a pastor, you know? So there's a little pushback on some of those episodes, but for the, for the most part, uh, yeah, I kinda, I really don't bring people on that.

I'm going to have a really hard opposing view with, I'm not against it. I mean, if someone wants to, here's the funny thing, and you might have experienced the same thing. I've had people that will argue with me online or say something or right.

And I'll go look at their, their Twitter, their Facebook, whatever. See some of the videos they post and go, Hey, come on the podcast. Let's talk about it. You can talk about it in front of 50 ,000 people this month.

That'll listen to it. It'll go out on YouTube. It'll go out everywhere. Make your points there. So it can be recorded and, and I'll make my counterpoints. Not one has ever taken me up on it because a lot of these, you know, keyboard Cowboys, you know, man, when they can Google and they can type in and they're sitting in, you know, in their room doing it, boy, do they love to talk smack, but it's like you invite them on a public forum that's recorded that we can talk about, they don't seem to be too interested.