Mark Driscoll Comes to Joel Osteen's Defense

Fighting for the Faith

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From the Christian Post, the headline reads, Mark Driscoll on Joel Osteen.

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There are worse things than being happy and encouraging. Yeah, no joke.

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This is by Nicola Menzi of the Christian Post. She's a reporter there, and here's how the story reads.

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Seattle megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll recently came to the defense of fellow

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Christian minister Joel Osteen while admitting that his Reformed brothers like to treat

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Pastor Joel like a piñata. In a recent interview with the Gospel Coalition, the Mars Hill Church pastor was asked to comment on a segment of his new book,

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Who Do You Think You Are?, that mentions appreciated people who exchange grumbling for praying, competing for celebrating, bitterness for thankfulness, performing for serving, and boasting for encouraging.

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The interviewer, TGC's associate editor Matt Smithurst, asked

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Driscoll, What's an appreciated person? Isn't that what Joel Osteen wants me to be?

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Quote, I am aware of the theological differences that exist between our tribe and Pastor Joel, Driscoll responded.

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I also know my Reformed brothers like to treat Pastor Joel like a piñata, but there are worse things than being happy and encouraging at a time when the most common prescription medications are antidepressants.

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Driscoll made the same reference to the common use of antidepressants in his 2007 multi -part sermon series,

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The Rebel's Guide to Joy, in which he mentions in part one Osteen's preaching of the gospel, which has been labeled by some as a prosperity or health and wealth message.

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Osteen, who leads Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, and preaches to about 43 ,500 people who visit the church every weekend, has embraced the prosperity label, although he is careful to define the term.

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Quote, The way I define it is that I believe God wants you to prosper in your health, in your family, in your relationships, in your business, and in your career.

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So I do, if that's the prosperity gospel, then I do believe that, Osteen previously told the

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Christian Post, adding that he also believes God rewards obedience. In a video of part one,

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The Rebel's Guide to Joy, focused on Acts 16 in Philippians 1 verse 1a,

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Driscoll referenced Osteen's preaching when he offers examples of how some members of a society might turn to culture and religion or spirituality in their pursuit of happiness.

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Quote, Who's the happiest Christian out there? His name is Joel Osteen, said Driscoll, showing an image of the

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August 2005 cover of Texas Monthly featuring a photo of Osteen with the caption, and on the 8th day

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God created Joel Osteen. Calling the Lakewood church leader the most well -known pastor in America, Driscoll noted that America is absolutely in love with this guy.

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While acknowledging Osteen as his Christian brother, Driscoll, however, expressed concern with Osteen's prosperity message, which is not unique to the

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Texas minister. Quote, I'll tell you what doesn't bother me about the guy. It doesn't bother me that he's got a big church.

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It doesn't bother me that he's on the radio. It doesn't bother me that he's on TV. It doesn't bother me that he publishes books.

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It doesn't even bother me that he's happy all the time because maybe his spiritual gift is encouragement, said

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Driscoll in his 2007 sermon, according to the video and a transcript from Mars Hill. What I find disconcerting, this is from 2007, is this whole wave of new

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Christian thinking that says that joy is to be found in the same place that culture and spirituality tells us.

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Get rich, get healthy, be happy. That's the equation, health and wealth, prosperity. Now in this, what we are saying is that as Christians, we have nothing to offer that isn't any different from non -Christians or people in other religions, he adds.

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In a 2011 feature on Pastor Joel Osteen, USA Today, religion, spirituality, and ethics reporter

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Kathy Lynn Grossman noted how the minister's message of empowerment and success makes his critics livid, specifically citing

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Southern Baptist Theological Seminary President Reverend R. Albert Moeller Jr.

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and Pastor Driscoll. Grossman apparently also referenced Driscoll's 2007 sermon, writing that the

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Reformed Evangelical Christian minister says Osteen reduces the pursuit of God to lollipops and skipping while singing hymns.

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When asked for reaction to Moeller's and Driscoll's critiques, Osteen looked genuinely mystified, wrote the reporter.

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I don't know who those people are, Osteen told Grossman. In his interview with the Gospel Coalition last week,

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Driscoll expressed the belief that Christian preachers should not focus too much on either joy or suffering, a topic he feels features prominently among Reformed and New Calvinist ministers.

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The Reformed Christian tradition, inspired by the teachings of the 16th century French theologian John Calvin, among other focuses on, among other things,

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God's sovereignty and holiness and sinful man's need for salvation, which is initiated by God and wholly dependent upon His grace.

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Quote, a few guys in our tribe can learn to talk about something other than painful, arduous suffering once in a while, if nothing else than for the sake of variety,

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Driscoll told the Gospel Coalition. Quote, our identity is not in our joy and our identity is not in our suffering.

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Our identity is in Christ, whether we have joy or our suffering. Okay, so here's the problem, is that it's pretty clear that Driscoll's drifting.

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Okay, last year, last year, he was the one driving the getaway car, you know, for the crime of basically trying to bamboozle mainstream

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American evangelicalism into believing that T .D. Jakes is not a modalist. Of course, he's not a modalist.

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He believes that God is three persons, as long as by person you mean manifestation, which is how modalists talk.

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And now, you know, a year later, it's a little over a year now, he's basically saying that I'm aware of the theological differences that exist between our tribe, apparently the

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Calvinist tribe, and Pastor Joel, and I know my Reformed brothers like to treat Joel like a piñata, but there are worse things than being happy and encouraging at a time when most common prescription medications are antidepressants.

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I think that totally misses the entire point. The issue is, is that Joel Osteen doesn't preach repentance and the forgiveness of sins.

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That Joel Osteen, every single time he opens his mouth to quote a biblical passage, he quotes it out of context, literally makes it narcissistically about you.

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He teaches that you create your reality by declaring things. I would go back into the archives of Fighting for the

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Faith, where we reviewed Joel Osteen's recent appearance on Oprah's Life Class, for Mark Driscoll to basically brush aside all of those significant theological problems.

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They're not differences. They're problems. Joel Osteen is a heretic.

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He teaches a different gospel. He teaches a different Jesus. He never handles

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God's Word correctly. As a result of it, when sinners come to Lakewood or watch his program, rather than being driven to their knees and hearing

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God's law and knowing that they are liable and guilty of transgressing

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God's law and face His wrath and judgment, instead he tells them constantly that God is for you, you're

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God's masterpiece, you just need to declare important things like,

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I am strong, I am made in the image, I am amazing, and things like that.

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What's missing? Repentance and the forgiveness of sins. There's no need to repent in Joel Osteen's theology.

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This is not a theological difference. That's to gloss over everything that Joel Osteen says

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That's just a variety of Christianity. That's what his tribe does.

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The prosperity preacher tribe does. But over here, our tribe of New Calvinists, which by the way, what is a

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New Calvinist? That doesn't make any sense to me. You're either a

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Calvinist or you're not a Calvinist. He is apparently a postmodern mystic Calvinist that denies sola scriptura.

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How can you be a Calvinist and deny sola scriptura? That doesn't make any sense. Anyway, sorry,

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I digress. So now, Driscoll's drifting. He's becoming as bland and fuzzy doctrinally and theologically as people like T .D.

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Jakes and Joel Osteen. It makes me wonder if the reason why

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Driscoll is becoming less and less clearly definable doctrinally and theologically is because he's discovered that the more you blur doctrinal distinctives, the more rapidly your church grows.

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It just makes me wonder if that's really what's going on with Mark Driscoll. Because for somebody to come to the defense of the indefensible, theologically, doesn't make any sense to me.

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And to kind of give you an example, I mean, folks, I just literally, I went onto the internet, went to YouTube, typed in Joel Osteen sermons, and I looked and I filtered it down to recent sermons within the last 30 days.

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And up came a sermon. And you can do this with any Joel Osteen sermon.

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If you're up in the middle of the night and you're flipping channels and the infomercial time comes on where you got

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Joel Osteen coming up, you can find something like this rather easily. It doesn't matter what the sermon is.

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Pretty much Joel Osteen's message is the same. And it's not biblical Christianity. It's not faith and trust in Christ for the forgiveness of sins, law and gospel, sin and grace, repentance and the forgiveness of sins.

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In fact, it's something completely different. But in order to do that, we've got to play our Joel Osteen update music.

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Here is Chip Skylark and My Shiny Teeth and Me. It's our Joel Osteen update music,

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My Shiny Teeth and Me by Chip Skylark. Anyway, you can find it on YouTube, by the way, if you were wondering.

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Here is a recent sermon of Joel Osteen's posted on YouTube by a fan of his theology and doctrine.

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And see if what you're hearing is just minor, small, insignificant, easy to just gloss and throw aside, theological differences, differences of opinion.

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Or if what we're hearing actually is bonafide for real, a different gospel.

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Listen in. You decide. Discover the champion in you.

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All right. I mean, we're only, what, 10 seconds? Discover the champion. Is that what the biblical message is?

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Discover the champion in you? I thought the apostle Paul said that we were by nature sinners, dead in trespasses and sins.

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Christianity doesn't call you to discover the champion in you, but to come to grips with the fact that you were born dead in trespasses and sins.

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In other words, to discover the sinner in you. God bless you and welcome.

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Thanks so much for letting us come into your homes. We love you. If you're ever in our area, please stop by and be a part of one of our services.

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These are the finest people in all of Houston, Texas, right here at Lakewood. Love to have you come out whenever you can.

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But thanks for tuning in and thank you again for coming out today. I like to get started with something funny.

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Heard about this five -year -old boy named Tommy. It was his grandmother's birthday. After wishing her a happy birthday, he said, grandmother, how old are you?

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She said, Tommy, I'm 39 and holding. He thought about it a moment and said, grandmother, how old would you be if you let go?

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Hold up your Bible. Say it like you mean it. This is my Bible. I am what it says

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I am. I have what it says I have. I can do what it says I can do. Today, I will be taught the word of God.

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I boldly confess my mind is alert. My heart is receptive. I will never be the same.

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In Jesus' name. Now, that is the infamous Joel Osteen Creed.

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This is my Bible. It is what it is it is and says what it says it says. I can do what it says it does and things like that.

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Let's compare this to the summary of the Christian faith put together by the ancient church called the

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Nicene Creed which, by the way, has a long pedigree going all the way back to the apostles and this is what the church fathers referred to as the rule of faith.

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Now, the Nicene Creed is a very highly polished version of the rule of faith but you can find the rule of faith for instance in the writings of the church father

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Irenaeus in his books against heresies. Specifically, it is writings against the

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Valentinian Gnostics but listen to this creed. I believe in one

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God, the Father, the Almighty, the Maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible and in one

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Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, begotten of His Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very

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God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made, who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate by the

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Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary and was made man. He was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate.

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He suffered and was buried and the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures, ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of the

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Father and He will come again with glory to judge both the living and the dead whose kingdom will have no end.

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I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life who proceeds from the Father and the Son who with the Father and the

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Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. I believe in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

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I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins and I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.

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Amen. All right, so notice the difference here that I see in Creed in confessing what

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Christianity is all about is confessing Father, Son and Holy Spirit in their saving, justifying, creating, saving, justifying, sanctifying work.

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Okay? It's all about what God has done for us. Okay? Let me go back and let's play the little

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Joel Osteen Creed again and just ask yourself, who is this Creed about? Okay?

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Is it about God or is it about somebody else? You decide. Here we go.

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Hold up your Bible. Say it like you mean it. This is my Bible. I am what it says

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I am. I have what it says I have. I can do what it says I can do. Today I will be taught the

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Word of God. I boldly confess my mind is alert. My heart is receptive.

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I will never be the same. In Jesus' name. God bless you. So his

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Creed is all about you. The Nicene Creed, the ancient Creed, it's all about the triune

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God and what he's done for you. Big difference. You think this is just something you can gloss over, theologically brush aside?

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I don't think so. We continue. I want to talk to you today about seeing yourself as a masterpiece.

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Too many people go around feeling wrong on the inside. They don't really like who they are.

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They think if I was just a little taller, if I had a better personality, if my metabolism was a little faster, or if I just looked like her, then

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I would feel good about myself. If I looked like her, I would not feel better about myself.

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I'd feel worse because I'm a dude. No, when God created you, he went to great lengths to make you exactly like he wanted.

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You didn't accidentally get your personality. You didn't just happen to get your height, your looks, your skin color, your gifts.

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God designed you on purpose to be the way you are. You have what you need to fulfill your destiny.

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You have what you need to fulfill your destiny. Which, by the way, this question comes to mind, how does the fall, you know, into sin play into this man's theology?

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If you needed to be taller, God would have made you taller. If you needed to be a different nationality,

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God would have made you that way. If you needed to look like her instead of you, you would have looked like her.

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Now, where does the Bible say any of this? Are you familiar with any verses that say this?

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I can't think of any. Is it just a small thing that you can brush aside that somebody chronically and habitually makes assertions about God that can't be found in Scripture and is teaching it as if this is what

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Christianity believes, teaches, and confesses, and this is what the Scriptures teach? Is that a small problem that you can just gloss over and say, well, he's teaching things.

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He's all about being happy, and there's worse things that you can do. Yeah, there's worse things that you can do, and I think this would be an example of something far worse that you could do.

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Because, I mean, I never critique Joel Osteen and say, yeah, his problem is he's all about happiness. No, I always critique the fact that the substance of his message is flat -out contrary and runs 180 degrees in the wrong direction from what the biblical message teaches.

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Confident in who God made you to be. And Ephesians 2 .10 says, we are

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God's masterpiece. That means you are not ordinary. You didn't come off an assembly line.

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You weren't mass -produced. You were one of a kind. Okay, now Ephesians 2 .10 says you are

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God's masterpiece. Is that what Ephesians 2 .10 really says?

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Well, we're going to take a look at that in our Bibles. Go ahead and flip on over to Ephesians 2.

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And we're going to apply our three primary rules for sound biblical exegesis. And here it is.

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Are you ready? Context, context, and context.

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Now, the majority of false Bible teaching can be identified, isolated, and rejected by simply applying these three rules.

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Context, context, context. Now, there are other types of Bible twisting that take far more knowledge than just context, context, context.

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But context, context, context, notice I keep repeating the three words here, gives us a solid basis for at least having a good idea about what a passage is about.

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So, based upon what Joel Osteen said, Ephesians 2 .10 says you are

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God's masterpiece. Okay? Now, is that a general statement made to all of humanity?

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Okay? If you're not a Christian, is that, we're all God's master, is that what this verse is saying? When I look at this in context, will

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I be seeing the Apostle Paul who wrote the epistle to the Ephesians basically spelling out for everybody, listen, you need to know you are

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God's masterpiece. Well, let's take a look. And what we're going to do is we're going to start at Ephesians 2 .1.

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In other words, we're going to do the unthinkable. We're going to read more than one verse. Okay? Now, and the reason

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I say that that way, because in most seeker -driven churches, reading more than one verse in context or you're reading a large section of Scripture, like we heard from Judah Smith at the

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Awakening Revival, after you do such a feat, I mean, these people act like they should earn a purple heart or something.

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Okay? But the job of a pastor is to preach the Word. It should be a normal thing for your pastor to be preaching through large sections of Scripture in context.

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Just saying. Ephesians 2 .1. And you, you Christians in the church of Ephesus, you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work and the sons of disobedience, among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and we were by nature children of wrath like the rest of mankind.

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Now, wait a second. Okay? Ephesians 2 .1 -3 isn't about God telling us about how wonderful we are and how we're

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His masterpiece. Instead, this is God the Holy Spirit revealing to us that each and every one of us by nature when we were born were children of wrath, that we followed sinful passions.

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Okay? And those passions resided in our flesh and our mind and we were children of sons of disobedience.

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This is what Scripture says. Okay? Hmm. It makes me wonder. You think there's a reason why

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Joel Osteen doesn't teach that? Because if he did, he'd probably empty out that arena, don't you think?

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But we continue. Verse 4. But God being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which

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He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, He has made us alive together with Christ.

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By grace, you have been saved. Now, saved from what? What are we saved from?

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Well, it says right there, the wrath of God. Okay? We were by nature children of wrath. Okay? So the idea here is this.

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Christianity is about saving you from the wrath of God. The reason why you're liable to experience that and justly so is because you were born dead in trespasses and sins and you're by nature a son of disobedience or daughter if you're a female listener.

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Okay? And here it says that by grace, you have been saved. Speaking to Christians, not to the world at large, but to Christians at the church in Ephesus.

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It's by grace you've been saved. And raised us up with Him and seated us up with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus so that in the coming ages,

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He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace and kindness towards us in Christ Jesus. For by grace, you have been saved through faith and this is not your own doing.

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It's the gift of God. So not the result of works so that no one may boast. For we are

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God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works which

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God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Hmm. So verse 10, for we are

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God's workmanship. It doesn't say you're God's masterpiece. That's not what the Greek says at all. Workmanship is right.

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We are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works. And all of this is the result of the previous verses for by grace, you have been saved.

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Saved from the wrath of God. For by grace, you have been saved through faith.

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And this is not your own doing. It's the gift of God. Salvation is a completely free gift.

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It's not the result of works so that no one can boast. So verse 10, when we go back and put it in context, is not telling us how we are

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God's masterpiece and how we need to adopt a new way of looking at ourselves that we are just the most amazing thing ever.

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Now, we continue with Joel Osteen's sermon. Again, I'm asking the question, are these differences that we have with Joel Osteen just things that we can just gloss over like Mark Driscoll has?

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Just brush aside like they're not important? Listen in. Nobody in this world has your fingerprints.

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There will never be another you. If you're going to reach your highest potential, you have to see yourself as unique, as an original, as God's very own masterpiece.

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It's interesting because Ephesians 2 .10 says nothing about you need to see yourself as God's masterpiece in order for you to achieve your potential.

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The text doesn't say that at all. When I was in my early 20s, I was sitting on the beach in India all alone watching the sun set.

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Were you on the Ganges River? It was a magnificent scene. The water was so blue.

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As far as I could see from the right to the left, miles and miles of beach and palm trees.

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The sun was huge on the horizon just about to set. As I sat there reflecting, thinking about my life,

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I heard God ask me something. Not out loud, but just an impression down in here.

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He said, Joel, you think this is a beautiful picture, do you? I said, yes,

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God. I think this is a magnificent picture. He said, well, what do you think would be my most prized painting, my most incredible creation?

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Now notice this story is about a direct revelation that Joel Osteen received.

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This puts him in the same category of teacher as Cat Kerr, Patricia King, Chuck Pierce.

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Now the only thing that's different is that while Joel Osteen's got a slicker marketing ability, he's very polished.

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Theologically, this puts him in the same genre of teacher. This is a direct revelation that he claims

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God gave him down in his heart and he's preaching it from the pulpit as if this is a word of God that the people there at, well,

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Lakewood need to be hearing. I thought about it a moment. I said, God, it must be this sunset.

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This is magnificent. He said, no, it's not this. Earlier that year, I'd been in the

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Rocky Mountains. They were spectacular. I said, God, I bet it's the Rocky Mountains. He said, no, not that.

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I thought, what could it be? The solar system? The Milky Way? He said, no, Joel, my most prized possession, the painting that I'm the most proud of is you.

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So God told Joel Osteen his most prized possession is Joel Osteen.

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If this isn't blasphemy, then I don't know what is. I thought, me, couldn't be me.

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I'm ordinary. I'm just like everybody else. He said, no, you don't understand. When I made the solar system, the waters, the mountains,

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I was proud of that. That was great. But, Joel, when I made you, I breathed my very life into you.

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I created you in my own image. Friends. Yet, you're a descendant of Adam, Joel.

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That makes you sinful by nature. According to Ephesians 2, you are by nature an object of God's wrath, born in sin, dead in trespasses and sins.

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What you're saying here that God specifically revealed to you outside of his word is actually contradicted by God's word.

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This makes you not just a dangerous teacher. It actually makes you a false prophet.

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Now, I come back to the whole point that I was making. Mark Driscoll is now coming to Joel Osteen's aid and basically saying there's worse things that you can do than just talking about the importance of being happy.

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That's not what Joel Osteen's doing here. Joel Osteen's actually acting as a prophet, claiming direct revelation from God.

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He twisted Ephesians 2, verse 10. His whole creed that he puts forward is me -centered rather than Christ -centered and God -centered or focused on the work of the

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Trinity. Now, when we test his direct revelation against the clear writings and teachings of the word of God, we find that his direct revelation that he claims is coming from God himself is actually contradicted by the clear teachings of Scripture.

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This makes Joel Osteen a wolf and a false prophet, not just some innocuous guy with a really good shiny set of teeth, okay, who likes to make people happy.

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This makes him a bonafide wolf in sheep's clothing, the kind of which we are warned against by Jesus himself.

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You are God's most prized possession. Don't go around feeling wrong about yourself.

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Quit wishing you were taller, had a better personality, or looked like somebody else.

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You've been painted by the most incredible painter there could ever be. When God created you, he stepped back and looked, said, that was good, another masterpiece.

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He stamped his approval on you. You know how on the back of our shirts, most of the time, there's a tag that says,

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Made in America, Made in China, Made in Mexico. Well, somewhere on you, there's a tag that says,

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Made by Almighty God. Now put your shoulders back. Hold your head up high.

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You are extremely valuable. You have royal blood flowing through your veins.

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You are wearing a crown of favor. When those thoughts come in the morning, telling you everything that you're not, you need to remind yourself,

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I've got the fingerprints of God all over me. The way I look. The way

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I smile. My gifts. My personality. I know I am not average. I am a masterpiece.

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That's the thoughts that should be playing in our mind all day long. Not, I'm slow.

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I'm unattractive. I'm just one of the seven billion people on earth. No, God did not make anything average.

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If you have breath to breathe, you are a masterpiece. Now, people may try to make you feel average.

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Your own thoughts may try to convince you that you're ordinary. Life will try to push you down and steal your sense of value.

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That's why all through the day, you have to remind yourself who your painter is.

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When you dwell on the fact that Almighty God breathed his life into you, he approved you, equipped you, empowered you, then any thoughts of low self -esteem, inferiority, they won't have a chance.

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Mm -hmm. Yeah, this is not what Scripture teaches. In fact, this is what Scripture warns against.

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2 Timothy chapter 3, But understand this, in the last days there will come times of difficulty, for people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self -control, brutal, not loving the good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having an appearance of godliness, but denying its power.

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Avoid such people. That's who Scripture is warning us about,

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Joel Osteen and his type, the lovers of self. Joel Osteen's job is to call sinners to repentance and faith and trust in Christ who bled and died on the cross, who was nailed to the tree, who was pierced for their transgressions, bruised for their iniquities.

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The punishment, the chastisement that brought them peace was upon Christ, for God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, not counting men's trespasses against them.

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Right? This is what Scripture says. Well, he's not calling sinners to repentance.

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He's telling sinners, rather than saying, you need to repent and be forgiven, he's saying to them, you are a

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God's masterpiece. God's got his thumbprint on you. You're just amazing. You're special.

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You need to not have low self -esteem. So I come back to my question. Are these the types of differences that Christian believers are supposed to just gloss over, brush aside, poo -poo, and say, oh, it doesn't matter.

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No, Joel Osteen, yeah, he makes people happy, but there's worse things that he could be doing, you know? Yeah, there is something worse that he is already doing, and that is he's not preaching the gospel, law and gospel, sin and grace, repentance and the forgiveness of sins.

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As a result of it, he's basically puffing up the egos of the people in his audience, telling them how special they are, while they're on the broad road that leads to destruction, the broad road to hell.

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So yeah, he's actually doing something worse than making people happy.

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He's sending them to an eternity in hell, all of this being done while claiming he's preaching the message of Christ.

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I don't think that's something that we can just brush aside. What do you think?

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All right, we're up on our second break. On the other side of the break, we're going to be listening to a sermon. We're going to be reviewing a sermon from South Hills Church in Corona from their brand -new teaching pastor,

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Chris Harrell. Stay tuned. Don't want to miss it. It's going to be interesting, yeah. If you'd like to email me, email address talkbackatfightingforthefaith .com,

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facebook .com forward slash PirateChristian, or at PirateChristian on Twitter. We'll be right back. No itching ears are scratched here.