Mark Driscoll Comes to Joel Osteen's Defense

From the Christian Post the headline reads Mark Driscoll on Joel Osteen. There are worse things than being happy and encouraging. Yeah, no joke. This is by Nicola Nicola Menzi of the Christian Post. She's a reporter there and here's how the story reads.

Seattle mega church pastor Mark Driscoll recently came to the defense of fellow Christian minister Joel Osteen while admitting that his Reformed brothers like to treat pastor Joel like a pinata. In a recent interview with the gospel coalition The Mars Hill Church pastor was asked to comment on a segment of his new book Who do you think you are that mentions appreciated people who exchange grumbling for praying?

Competing for celebrating. Bitterness for thankfulness. Performing for serving and boasting for encouraging the interviewer. TGC's associate editor Matt Smithers asked Driscoll. What's an appreciated person?

Isn't that what Joel Osteen wants me to be? Quote. I am aware of the theological differences that exist between our tribe and Pastor Joel Driscoll responded. I also know my reformed brothers like to treat pastor Joel like a pinata.

But there are worse things than being happy and encouraging at a time when the most common prescription Medications are antidepressants. Driscoll made the same reference to the common use of antidepressants in his 2007 multi-part sermon series The rebels guide to joy in which he mentions in part one Osteen's preaching of the gospel.

Which has been labeled by some as a prosperity or health and wealth message. Osteen who leads Lakewood Church in Houston Texas and preaches to about forty three thousand five hundred people Who visit the church every weekend has embraced the prosperity label, although he is careful to define the term.

Quote. The way I define it is that I believe God wants you to prosper in your health in your family in your Relationships in your business and in your career. So I so I do if that's the prosperity gospel.

Then I do believe that Jostein previously told the Christian Post adding that he also believes God rewards obedience. In a video of part one the rebels guide to joy focused on acts 16 in Philippians chapter 1 verses verse 1 a Driscoll referenced Osteen's preaching when he offers examples of how some people members of a society might turn to culture and Religion or spirituality in their pursuit of happiness.

Quote. Who's the happiest Christian out there? His name is Joel Osteen said Driscoll showing an image of the August 2005 cover of Texas Monthly featuring a photo of Osteen with the caption and on the 8th day God created Joel Osteen.

Calling the Lakewood Church leader the most well-known pastor in America Driscoll noted that America's absolutely in love with this guy. While acknowledging that Osteen as his Christian acknowledging Osteen as his Christian brother.

Driscoll however expressed concern with Osteen's prosperity message, which is not unique to the Texas minister. Quote. I'll tell you what does what doesn't bother me about the guy. It doesn't bother me that he's got a big church.

It doesn't bother me that he's on the radio. It doesn't bother me that he's on TV. It doesn't bother me that he publishes books. It doesn't even bother bother me that he's happy all the time because maybe his spiritual gift is encouragement said Driscoll in his 2007 sermon according to the video and a transcript from Morris Hill.

What I find disconcerting this is from 2007 is this whole wave of new Christian thinking that says that joy is to be found in the same place that culture and Spirituality tells us get rich get healthy be happy.

That's the equation health and wealth prosperity. Now in this what we are saying is that as Christians We have nothing to offer that isn't any different from non-christians or people in other religions.

He adds in a 2011 feature on pastor Joel Osteen USA Today religion spirituality and ethics reporter Kathy Lynn Grossman noted how the minister's message of empowerment and success makes his critics livid.

Specifically citing Southern Baptist Theological Seminary president Reverend our Albert Moller jr. And Pastor Driscoll. Grossman apparently also referenced Driscoll's 2007 sermon writing that the reformed evangelical Christian minister says Osteen Reduces the pursuit of God to lollipops and skipping while singing hymns.

When asked for reaction to Moller's and Driscoll's critiques Osteen looked genuinely mystified wrote the reporter. I don't know who those people are Osteen told Grossman. In his interview with the gospel coalition last week Driscoll expressed the belief that Christian preachers Should not focus too much on either joy or suffering a topic He feels features prominently among reformed a new Calvinist ministers the reformed Christian tradition inspired by the teachings of the 16th century French theologian John Calvin among other focuses on among other things God's sovereignty and holiness and sinful man's need for salvation.

Which is initiated by God and wholly dependent upon his grace. Quote a few guys in our tribe can learn to talk about something other than painful arduous Suffering once in a while if nothing else than for the sake of variety Driscoll told the gospel coalition quote our identity is not in our joy and our identity is not in our suffering.

Our identity is in Christ whether we have joy or our suffering. Okay, so here's the problem. Is that it's pretty clear that Driscoll's drifting. Okay last year last year he He was the one driving the getaway car.

You know for the crime of basically trying to bamboozle Mainstream American evangelicalism into believing that TD Jake's is not a modalist. Of course. He's not a modalist. He believes in in that God is three persons as long as by person you made Manifestation which is how modalists talk and now I you know a year later It's you know a little over a year now.

He's basically saying that I'm aware of the theological Differences that exist between our tribe that apparently the Calvinist tribe and pastor Joel and I know my reformed brothers like to treat Joel Like a pinata, but there are worse things than being happy and encouraging at a time when most common prescription medications are Antidepressants, I think that totally misses the entire point.

The issue is is that Joel Osteen doesn't preach repentance and the forgiveness of sins that Joel Osteen every single time he opens his mouth to Quote a biblical passage. He quotes it out of context. Literally makes it narcissistically about you.

He teaches that you create your reality by declaring things I would go back into the archives of fighting for the faith where we reviewed Joel Osteen's recent appearance on Oprah's life class. For for Mark Driscoll to basically brush aside all of those significant theological Problems, they're not Differences their problems.

Joel Osteen is a heretic. He teaches a different gospel. He teaches a different Jesus. He never handles God's Word correctly the and as a result of it when sinners come to Lakewood or watch his program rather than being driven to their knees and hearing God's law and knowing that they they are liable and Guilty of transgressing God's law and face his wrath and judgment.

Instead he tells them constantly the God is for you. You're God, you know, you're God's masterpiece and you you just need to declare important things like I am strong I am I am made in the image. I am amazing and things like that, right?

What's missing repentance and the forgiveness of sins? There's no need to repent in Joel Osteen's theology. This is not a theological difference. Okay, that's to kind of you know gloss over everything that Joel Osteen says and doesn't make it say oh It's just that's just a variety of Christianity.

I mean, that's what his tribe does. You know the prosperity preacher tribe does but over here our tribe of new Calvinists, which by the way, what is a new Calvinist? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Okay I mean you're either a Calvinist or you're not a Calvinist and he is a apparently a postmodern mystic Calvinist that denies Sola Scriptura, how can you be a Calvinist and deny Sola Scriptura? That doesn't make any sense.

Anyway, sorry I digress but so now I mean Driscoll's drifting. Okay, he's becoming as bland and fuzzy doctrinally and theologically as well, not people like TD Jake's and Joel Osteen and Makes me wonder.

Okay, it makes me wonder if the reason why Driscoll is becoming less and less clearly definable Doctrinally and theologically is because he's discovered that the more you blur doctrinal distinctives The more rapidly your church grows it just makes me wonder if that's really what's going on with Mark Driscoll because for somebody to come to the defense of the indefensible.

It theologically doesn't make any sense to me and to kind of give you an example, I mean Folks, I just literally, you know, I went onto the internet went to YouTube typed in Joel Osteen sermons and I looked and I was filtered it down to recent sermons within the last 30 days, okay and up came a sermon and Just you can do this with any Joel Osteen sermon.

Just if you're up in the middle of the night and you're flipping channels and the infomercial time comes on where you got Joel Osteen. Coming up you can find something like this rather easily. It doesn't matter what the sermon is.

Pretty much Joel Osteen's message is the same and it's not biblical Christianity. It's not faith and trust in Christ for the forgiveness of sins law and gospel sin and grace. Repentance and the forgiveness of sins.

In fact, it's something completely different. But in order to do that, we've got to play our Joel Osteen update music. Here is Chip Skylark and my shiny teeth and me. Our Joel Osteen update music my shiny teeth and me by Chip Skylark anyway.

You can find it on YouTube by the way if you were wondering here is well a recent sermon of Joel Osteen's posted on YouTube by a well a fan of his theology and doctrine and see if what you're hearing is Just you know Minor small Insignificant easy to just gloss and you know throw aside Theological, you know differences the differences of opinion or if what we're hearing actually is bonafide for real a Different gospel, you know, listen in you decide.

All right. We're I mean, we're only what ten seconds and discover the champion is that what the biblical message is discover the champion in you? I thought the Apostle Paul said that we were by nature Sinners dead and trespasses and sins.

It's Christianity doesn't call you to discover the champion in you but to come to grips with the fact that you were born dead and trespasses and sins in other words to discover the sinner in you.

Welcome thanks so much for letting us come into your homes. We love you. If you're ever in our area, please stop by and be a part of one of our services. These are the finest people in all of Houston, Texas right here at Lakewood.

Love to have you come out whenever you can. But thanks for tuning in and thank you again for coming out today. And I like to get started with something funny and heard about this five-year-old boy named Tommy.

Was his grandmother's birthday and after wishing her a happy birthday. He said grandmother. How old are you? She said Tommy. I'm 39 and holding. He thought about at a moment said grandmother, how old would you be if you let go.

Hold up your Bible say it like you mean it. This is my Bible. I am what it says I am. I have what it says I have. I can do what it says I can do. Today, I will be taught the Word of God. I boldly confess.

My mind is alert. My heart is receptive. I will never be the same in Jesus name.

Now that is the infamous Joel Osteen Creed, okay, this is my Bible. It is what it is it is and says what it says it says and you know I can do what it says it dues and you know things like that. Okay, let's compare this to the summary of the Christian faith put together by the ancient church called the Nicene Creed.

Which by the way has a long pedigree going all the way back to the Apostles. And this is what what the Church Fathers referred to as the rule of faith now. The Nicene Creed is a very highly polished version of the rule of faith.

But you can find the rule of faith for instance in the writings of the Church Father Aaron Aeus and his In his books against heresies. Okay, specifically it is writings against the Valentinian Gnostics.

But listen to this Creed. Okay I believe in one God the Father the Almighty the maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible and In one Lord Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God begotten of his father before all worlds God of God light of light very God of very God begotten not made being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made who for us men and For our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary and was made man.

He was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried and the third day He rose again according to the scriptures ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of the father and he will come again with Glory to judge both the living and the dead whose kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit the Lord and giver of life who proceeds from the Father and the Son who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified who spoke by the prophets. I believe one holy Catholic and apostolic Church.

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins and I look for the resurrection of the dead in the life of the world to Amen. All right, so notice the difference here. Then I seeing creed in confessing what Christianity is all about is Confessing Father Son and Holy Spirit in their saving justifying and set your creating saving Justifying sanctifying work.

Okay. It's all about what God has done for us. Okay, let me go back and let's play the little Joel Osteen Creed again and just ask yourself Who is this creed about? Okay, is it about God or is it about somebody else you decide?

Here we go.

Say it like you mean it. This is my Bible. I am what it says I am. I have what it says I have. I can do what it says I can do. Today I will be taught the Word of God. I boldly confess. My mind is alert.

My heart is receptive. I will never be the same in Jesus name. God bless you. So his creed is all about you.

Then I seen creed the ancient creed. It's all about the triune God and what he's done for you. Big difference. You think this is just something you can Gloss over theologically. Brush aside. I don't think so.

We continue. I.

Want to talk to you today about seeing yourself as a masterpiece. Too many people go around feeling wrong on the inside. They don't really like who they are. They think if I was just a little taller if I had a better personality If my metabolism was a little faster or if I just look like her then I would feel good about myself.

If I look like her I would not feel better about myself. I'd feel worse. Because I'm a dude.

Know when God created you he went to great lengths to make you exactly like he wanted. You didn't Accidentally get your personality. You didn't just happen to get your height your looks your skin color your gifts.

God designed you on purpose to be the way you are. You have what you need to fulfill your destiny. If you have what you need to fulfill your destiny.

Which by the way this question comes to mind. How does the fall, you know into sin play into this man's theology?

You needed to be taller. God would have made you taller if you needed to be a different nationality. God would have made you that way. If you needed to look like her instead of you you would have looked like her.

You've got to be now. Where does the Bible say any of this? Are you familiar with any verses that say this. I can't think of any. Is it just a small thing that you can brush aside that somebody chronically and habitually makes assertions about God that can't be found in Scripture and is teaching it as if this is what Christianity believes teaches and confesses and this is what the scriptures teach.

Is that a small problem that you can just gloss over and say well, he's teaching things. He's all about being happy and there's worse things that you can do. Yeah, there's worse things that you can do it in this.

I think this would be an example of something far worse that you could do. Because I mean I never critiqued Joel Osteen say yeah, his problem is he's all about happiness. No I always critique the fact that the substance of his message is flat-out Contrary and runs 180 degrees in the wrong direction from the what the biblical message teaches.

Confident in who God made you to be and Ephesians 2 10 says we are God's masterpiece. That means you are not ordinary. You didn't come off an assembly line. You weren't mass-produced. You are one-of-a-kind.

Okay. Now Ephesians 2 10 says you are God's masterpiece. Is that what Ephesians chapter 2 verse 10 really says? Well, we're gonna take a look at that in our Bibles and go ahead and flip on over to Ephesians chapter 2 and we're gonna apply Our three primary rules for sound biblical exegesis and here it is.

Are you ready? Context context and Context now the majority of false Bible teaching can be identified Isolated and rejected by simply applying these three rules context context context now. There are other Types of Bible twisting that take far more knowledge than just context context context but context context context.

Notice I keep repeating the three words here. Gives us a solid basis for at least having a good idea about what a passage is about. Okay, so based upon what Joel Osteen said, okay Ephesians 2 10 says you are God's masterpiece.

Okay. Now, is that a general? Statement made to all of humanity. Okay, if you're not a Christian, is that we're all God's master. Is that what this verse is saying when I look at this in context? Will I be seeing the Apostle Paul who wrote the epistle to the Ephesians?

Basically spelling out for everybody. Listen, you need to know you are God's Masterpiece. Well, let's take a look. And what we're gonna do is we're gonna start at Ephesians chapter 2 Verse 1. In other words, we're gonna do the unthinkable.

We're gonna read more than one verse. Okay now and the reason I say that that way because in most seeker driven churches. Reading more than one verse in context or you're reading a large section of Scripture.

Like we heard from Judah Smith at the Awakening Revival after you do such a feat. I mean these people act like they're they should earn a purple heart or something. Okay, but the job of a pastor is to preach the word it should be a normal thing for Your pastor to be preaching through large sections of Scripture in Context just saying Ephesians chapter 2 verse 1 and you you Christians in the Church of Ephesus.

You were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked following the course of this world. Following the prince of the power of the air the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience.

Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh. Carrying out the desires of the body and the mind and we were by nature Children of wrath like the rest of mankind. Now, wait a second. Okay Ephesians chapter 2 verses 1 through 3.

Isn't about God telling us about how wonderful we are and how were his masterpiece instead. This is God the Holy Spirit revealing to us that each and every one of us by nature when we were born were children of wrath that we followed sinful passions okay, and those Passions resided in our flesh in our mind and we were children of sons of disobedience.

This is what Scripture says, okay. Hmm it makes me wonder you think there's a reason why Joel Osteen doesn't teach that. Because if he did he'd probably empty out that arena, don't you think but we continue verse 4.

But God being rich in mercy. Because of the great love with which he loved us even when we were dead in our trespasses He has made us alive together with Christ by grace. You have been saved now saved from what?

What are we saved from what says right there the wrath of God, okay, we were by nature children of wrath, okay so the idea here is this Christianity is about saving you from the wrath of God the reason why you're liable to experience that and justly so is.

Because you were born dead in trespasses and sins and you're by nature a son of disobedience or daughter if you're a female listener. Okay, and here it says that by grace you have been saved speaking to Christians not to you know The world at large but to Christians at the church in Ephesus is by grace.

You've been saved and Raised us up with him and seated us up with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of his grace and kindness towards us in Christ Jesus.

For by grace you have been saved through faith and this is not your own doing. It's the gift of God so not the result of works so that no one may boast. For we are God's workmanship. Created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Hmm so verse 10. For we are God's workmanship. It doesn't say you're God's masterpiece. That's not what the Greek says at all workmanship is right. We are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works.

And all of this is the result of the previous verses for by grace you have been saved. Saved from the wrath of God for by grace. You have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing. It's the gift of God.

Salvation is a completely free gift. It's not the result of works so that no one can boast so verse 10 when we go back and put it in context is not telling us how we are God's Masterpiece and how we need to adopt a new way of looking at ourselves that we are just the most amazing thing ever.

Now we continue with Joel Osteen's sermon. We can again. I'm asking the question is are these differences that we have with Joel Osteen? Just things that we can just gloss over like Mark Driscoll has just brush aside like they're not important.

Listen in.

Nobody in this world has your fingerprints. There will never be another you. If you're going to reach your highest potential you have to see yourself as unique as An original as God's very own masterpiece.

It's interesting because Ephesians 2 10 says nothing about you need to see yourself as God's masterpiece in order for you to achieve your potential.

The text doesn't say that at all. When I was in my early 20s I was sitting on the beach in India all alone watching the sunset. Were you on the Ganges River? It was a magnificent scene. The water was so blue as far as I could see from the right to the left.

Miles and miles of beach and palm trees. The Sun was huge on the horizon just about to set as I sat there Reflecting thinking about my life. I heard God asked me something not out loud But just an impression down in here.

He said Joel you think this is a beautiful picture. Do you I said, yes God I think this is a magnificent picture. He said well, what do you think would be my most prized painting my most incredible creation?

Now notice this story is about a direct revelation the Joel Osteen received. Okay, this puts him in the same category of teacher as Kat Kerr Patricia King Chuck Pierce. Now, the only thing that's different, you know, is that while Joel Osteen's got a slicker Marketing ability.

He's he's very polished, but theologically this puts him in the same Genre of teacher. This is a direct revelation that he claims God gave him down in his heart and he's preaching it from the pulpit as if this is a word of God that the people there at well Lakewood need to be hearing.

I.

Thought about it a moment. I said God it must be this sunset. This is magnificent. He said no, it's not this. Earlier that year. I'd been in the Rocky Mountains. They were spectacular. I said God I bet it's the Rocky Mountains.

He said no, not that. But what could it be the solar system the Milky Way? He said no Joel my most prized Possession the painting that I'm the most proud of is you.

So God told Joel Osteen his most prized possession is Joel Osteen. If this isn't blasphemy, then I don't know what is I thought me.

Couldn't be me. I'm ordinary. I'm just like everybody else. He said no, you don't understand when I made the solar system the waters the mountains. I was proud of that. That was great. But Joel when I made you I breathe my very life into you.

I Created you in my own image friends.

Yet you're a descendant of Adam Joel that makes you sinful by nature and according to second Ephesians chapter 2 you were by nature an object of God's wrath born in sin dead and trespasses and sins. What you're saying here that God? specifically revealed to you outside of his word is actually contradicted by God's Word.

This makes you not just a dangerous teacher. It actually makes you a false Prophet. Now I come back to the whole point that I was making, you know. Mark Driscoll's now coming to Joel Osteen's aid and you know, basically saying, you know.

There's worse things that you can do about. You know, then just you know talking about the importance of being happy. That's not what Joel Osteen's doing here. Joel Osteen's actually acting as a prophet claiming direct revelation from God.

He twisted Ephesians chapter 2 verse 10. His whole creed that he puts forward is me centered rather than Christ centered and God centered or focus on the work of the Trinity and. And now when we test his direct revelation against the clear writings and teachings of the Word of God.

We find that his direct revelation that he claimed is coming from God himself is actually contradicted by the clear teachings of Scripture. This makes Joel Osteen a wolf and a false prophet. Not just some innocuous guy with a really good shiny set of teeth.

Okay, who likes to make people happy. This makes him a bonafide wolf in sheep's clothing. The kind of which we are warned against by Jesus himself.

You are God's most prized possession. Don't go around feeling wrong about yourself. Quit wishing you were taller had a better personality or look like somebody else. You've been painted by the most incredible painter there could ever be.

When God created you he stepped back and looked said that was good. Another masterpiece. He stamped his approval on you. You don't have on the back of our shirts. Most of the time there's a tag says made in America made in China made in Mexico.

Well somewhere on you. There's a tag that says made by Almighty God. Now put your shoulders back. Hold your head up high. You are extremely valuable. You have royal blood flowing through your veins. You are wearing a crown of favor.

When those thoughts come in the morning telling you everything that you're not you need to remind yourself. I've got the fingerprints of God all over me. The way I look the way I smile my gifts my Personality, I know I am NOT average.

I am a masterpiece. That's the thoughts that should be playing in our mind all day long. Not. I'm slow. I'm unattractive. I'm just one of the seven billion people on earth. No, God did not make anything average.

If you have breath to breathe you are a masterpiece. Now people may try to make you feel average. Your own thoughts may try to convince you that you're ordinary. Life will try to push you down and steal your sense of value.

That's why all through the day you have to remind yourself who your painter is. When you dwell on the fact that Almighty God breathed his life into you. He approved you equipped you empowered you then any thoughts of low self-esteem.

Inferiority they won't have a chance. Mm-hmm. Yeah, this is not what scripture teaches. In fact, this is what scripture warns against 2nd Timothy chapter 3 but understand this in the last days there will come times of difficulty for people will be lovers of self lovers of money proud arrogant abusive.

Disobedient to their parents ungrateful unholy heartless unappeasable slanderous without self-control. Brutal not loving the good treacherous reckless swollen with conceit lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God having an appearance of godliness.

But denying its power avoid such people. That's who scriptures warning us about Joel Osteen in his time the lovers of self. Joel Osteen's job is to call sinners to repentance and faith and trust in Christ who bled and Died on the cross who was nailed to the tree who was pierced for their transgressions bruised for their iniquity.

The punishment the chastisement that brought them. Peace was upon Christ for God was in Christ Reconciling the world to himself not counting men's trespasses against them, right? This is what scripture says.

Well, he's not calling sinners to repentance. He's telling sinners rather than saying you need to repent and be forgiven. He's saying to them you are a God's masterpiece. You God's got his thumbprint on you.

You're just amazing. You're special. You need to not have low self-esteem. So I come back to my question Are these the types of differences? That Christian Believers are supposed to just gloss over brush aside Poo-poo and say oh, that's not doesn't matter.

No, Joel Osteen. Yeah, he makes people happy, but there's worse things that he could be doing, you know. Yeah, there is something worse that he is already doing and that is he's not preaching the gospel Law and gospel sin and grace repentance and the forgiveness of sins as a result of it.

He's basically puffing up the egos of the people in his audience telling him how special they are. While they're on the broad road that leads to destruction the broad road to hell. So yeah, he's actually doing something worse than making people happy.

He's sending them to an eternity in hell all of this being done while claiming. He's preaching the message of Christ. I Don't think that's something that we can just brush aside. What do you think? All right, we're up on our second break on the other side of the break.

We're gonna be listening to a sermon. We're gonna be reviewing a sermon from South Hills Church in Corona from their brand new teaching pastor Chris Harrell. Stay tuned don't want to miss it. It's gonna be interesting.

Yeah. If you'd like to email me email address talk back at fighting for the faith comm facebook .com forward slash pyre Christian or at.

Pyre Christian on Twitter. We'll be right back. No itching ears are scratched here. You're listening to fighting for the faith.