Live Not By Lies Episode 20,000, then the Key to Middle Knowledge

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First half hour was on how lies, when they are repeated, take on a life of their own, and destroy everything that is good. Then we listened to William Lane Craig debating Paul Helm and keyed in on the central issue of Molinism, the fact that subjunctive conditionals exist and they do so outside of God’s control. And today we got into more of a theological aspect of seeing how Molinism engages other elements of theology (such as sin, regeneration, etc.).

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Well, good morning. Yes, it is morning here in Phoenix, Arizona Anyways, it's hard to tell very cloudy today here in Phoenix, which is good.
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We've got some cooler weather coming in for us only 75 for a high tomorrow It's taking a little while to cool off.
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I mean, it's not bad I mean 80 who's who's complaining about that? But did you notice first night on the trip low of 16 now?
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16 I haven't felt 16 In probably six seven eight years last time.
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I was in st. Charles. I think was the last time I felt something that cold So yeah that's gonna be gonna be a little bit on the nippy side sort of looking forward to that got my got my sweaters ready to Go and yeah, we're looking forward to it prayers for safety for my health
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Prayers for a on -the -road recorded discussion debate on the 29th that I'll tell you about after it takes place, but big one and so I Would appreciate prayers for that and of course prayers that I will not pass out each time
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I have to pull into a gas station Because every time we fill up that tank it's just gonna be
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Yeah, I'm gonna be fun Call it. Yeah, I have to call the bank get a loan approval third fourth fifth mortgage all the way all the way out and back again and so Travel fund travel fund a domain org.
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That's that's how we that's how we do these things Anyway, what? Absolutely insane world we live in today that Dow Rumpel quote that I've given to you over and over again is
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Just it's almost becoming old Because it's being lived out every single day and I I keep holding on to it
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Because if I don't Then I'm actually expecting Rational thought and consistency from people on the left and they have no interest in it
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That's why by the way this is this is part of the the delusion of Judgment is when people who are made in the image of God Live in such a fashion that they embrace contradiction.
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They embrace hypocrisy. They embrace double standards They embrace irrationality and Do so with the gusto because it helps them to promote their narrative.
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I mean There you have judgment par excellence. It's absolutely all around us and so I'm in contact with Believers elsewhere in the world and Places that I once got to visit regularly and we'll probably not ever get to again but They are facing
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They're getting hit with the things we know are coming before us so they're the the tip of the spear basically and So as Austria Establishes universal vaccine mandates
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This morning. I was reading a German official Saying that by the end of this winter everyone in Germany will either have had kovat will be immunized against kovat or will be dead from kovat
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Again the numbers don't change the numbers haven't changed The numbers haven't changed since we started getting an idea in Italy as to ages
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Comorbidities they stayed pretty they've stayed pretty much in the same range, but they don't want you to think of that way
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All you ever hear about is the people who die of kovat. You don't hear about the people who?
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All of a sudden discover they've had it never even knew they had it all that kind of stuff
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But We are we what we're gonna hear as the winter comes on in the northern hemisphere is
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Places like Gibraltar that are fully vaccinated and 40 % into the next
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Okay, we can't even define the term fully vaccinated. We've changed the definition of vaccine
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Y 'all know that right? Vaccine in 2019 meant something gave you immunity now.
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It's something that lessens the effects of something they've changed definition to fit This disaster they've rolled out and call this great scientific advancement and So, you know, yeah, you had to get the two doses and of course
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Johnson Johnson one it just crashed it's What was the picture that early plane?
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You know the story goes up just goes should wings fall off or something. That's the Johnson and Johnson vaccine right there.
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I mean just boom and so You have to get more of that, you know automatically real fast.
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And so now you're doing the boosters and obviously obviously what it's going to be is
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Minimally every six months Probably more than that. Get your shot. Get your shot.
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Get your shot. Get your shot And so it's it's constantly moving goalposts constantly moving
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And of course constantly making sure to pour more and more of the spike protein into the entirety of your body
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When we don't know what that impacts going to be on on many organs of the body. We do now know without question
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The spike proteins impact upon the heart. We have premier athletes dropping dead passing out having cardiac arrests
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We don't know why yes we do yes we do
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I have in front of me Abstract 10 1 0 7 1 2 from Originally published
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November 2021. That's right now This was two days ago,
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I think MRNA kovat vaccines dramatically increase endothelial inflammatory markers and ACS risk is measured by the
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PULS cardiac test a warning Our group has been using the
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PULS cardiac test clinically validated measurement of multiple protein biomarkers
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Which generates a score predicting the five -year risk percent of chance of a new acute coronary syndrome
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The score is based on changes from the norm of multiple protein biomarkers including which I'm not even gonna bother to try to pronounce all
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Those and no one will know what they are anyways Elevation above the norm increases the PULS score while decreases below the norm lowers the
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PULS score The scores are measured every three to six months in our patient population for eight years Okay, eight years every three to six months
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Recently with the advent the MRNA coded 19 vaccines by Moderna and Pfizer Dramatic changes in the
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PULS score became apparent in most patients. This report summarizes those results
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It gives you some of the information here And that says these changes resulted in an increase the
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PULS score from 11 % At the time of this report these changes persist for at least 2 .5
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months post second dose of vaccine We conclude that the MRNA vaccines dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and May account for the observations of increased thrombosis cardiomyopathy and other vascular events following vaccination
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Now what's fascinating is if any of you follow Alex Berenson On Substack, you can't follow him on Twitter anymore because he's been banished from Twitter If you follow him on Substack He's reporting that if you try to forward his emails to certain email servers they will bounce
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They scan for his name and his website name and they refuse to accept the emails
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Yep So when people say well, I just everybody I talk to they they they all love the vaccines like There's a reason for this.
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It's not that the data isn't there it is. It's very clearly there, but you know and I didn't even bother
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I can't run the Joe Biden cookies filter and everything you can't do that while reading a scientific paper and stuff like that.
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So well, you know Every every program is gonna be our last program if you dare point out that well, there's the science
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You know, this is stuff has been used that they started use they started using the POLS cardiac test eight years ago
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Okay, so long before COVID But it doesn't matter now
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No, it doesn't matter now because it's not about a virus never has been there will be it's control, it's complete control, so So there's all sorts of stuff coming out,
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I don't know if any of you I saw I have an article here Footballers taking a fall and this time it's not theater and the list here just goes on and on and on it is huge the number of less than 30 year old athletes
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A 17 year old footballer Miguel Lugo collapsed died during practice 16 year old football player
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Devon DeHert mysteriously died in July 2021 16 year old footballer Ivan Hicks dies of cardiovascular disease during scrimmage
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It just goes on and on and on you just scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll
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But it's all coincidence, oh this was all happening before no it wasn't No, it wasn't.
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Well, you don't know that they all were look that It almost it seems to me that there is such a thing as panic induced
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Panic induced mental syndrome derangement syndrome panic into PIDs panic induced derangements that there to go
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PIDs. I Think Constant exposure every day to a focused sociological fear
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May be one of the most effective mind control methods ever developed and So if every day everybody around you is wearing openly their signs of being just as afraid as you are so sometimes
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I'll be standing by the side of a street and I'll just watch or I'll be sitting my sitting my truck and I'm Watching people turning in front of me and I just watch how many of them have a mask on in their vehicle alone with the windows rolled up They're there now now some of them is just because they've just gotten so used to having that they even know it's there but for others they're
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This is I'm doing my thing when you see that it reinforces The idea you need to be constantly afraid
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You need to be constantly in fear and I think it creates a very cowardly attitude
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It's safism again. We could be the problem. It's gotta be safe. That'd be safe Unless it kills people and then we don't have to worry about that They they just they died for the cause and we're sacrificing children for the cause
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That's what's going on so so Austria By I think it was
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February 2nd, February 1st Universal vaccines required or basically just you're locked in your house.
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You have no life left You lose your job lose your house starved death doesn't matter we don't care
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Austria especially should be the first place that goes, you know, we probably shouldn't be doing the your papers, please
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Since some certain leader in the 1930s and 40s was born in Austria Might they've forgotten evidently.
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It's sad. But anyway And that's gonna be going to Germany Fairly quickly and Again, everybody knows it has nothing to do with public health public safety.
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Everybody knows it. I Don't know how those people stand there. You see the guy from Australia the guy from the
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Northern Territories in Australia Wow, that guy is a that guy that guy reminds me of Joseph Smith on a bad day
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He really did. I mean, this is a zealot. This is a cultic zealot if you
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Campaign against the mandates you're anti -vax and you want to kill people and oh shit the guy is just You know
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You will never find him in a frame of mind when you can actually reason with him and say could we look at the numbers?
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Could could could we read this this? Paper that I was just referring to Could could we look at this and and see?
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that And then could we could we look at? Anthony Fauci Who's now promising promising us infant vaccines
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For for for people who have no danger Whatsoever, but but they can spread it to 80 year olds if you're an 80 year old and You want to endanger your newborn great -grandchild to protect you from kovat you're a coward
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I am Disgusted with my generation that we would sacrifice our grandchildren and our great -grandchildren.
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Oh You should just oh Sorry, I know deep breath anyway
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So then you put all this together when I when I watched this video
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I Made a comment on Twitter Monday Sunday afternoon,
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I preached to apologia and I preached out of psalm 12. I Preached psalm 12 and I did do what
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I promised I Made the connection to the abuse of psalm 12 By the
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King James only us and sometimes though it's here only it's not as much but but especially especially by King James only It's where they abuse psalm 12 6 and 7 they make an application that Psalm must be going
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Yeah, I know. I wasn't talking about a 17th century English translation of the Bible. No, I wasn't talking about but there are some incredible stuff in there
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I mean psalm 12 8 the wicked strut about when that which is vile is honored amongst men and I'm surprised it's still up on YouTube because I Clearly mentioned what's vile
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And certain people that promote that which is vile amongst men, but there's also that I think it's verse 5
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Where people say our lips are our own who is Lord over us?
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I mean talk about the essence of The secular worldview being expressed and so I call it a you know a psalm for our day and I really
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Tried to push hard on on the reality that speaking
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The beginning of psalm says that they speak empty words Falsehoods one to a man to his neighbor back and forth and When we think about What is going on in our society that with?
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utter disregard for truth Utter disregard for truth and the damage is being done by simply repeating lies
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You know soldier needs and live not by lies Communism depends upon lies you do.
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I hope y 'all caught That when BLM started marching in Chicago after the Rittenhouse verdict
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You caught their chant, right? The only real solution is the communist revolution.
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The only real solution is the communist revolution When we first started calling this stuff communism
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You tinfoil you you have changed so much and now they're marching down the streets calling for communist revolution
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It's sort of like hey, y 'all notice that and you and now you've taken the tinfoil and stuck it in your ears.
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You won't listen But but the the communists are out out front and in many ways they're already in charge
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In our in our nation and doing everything they can to to destroy it and to tear it shreds and are succeeding in many ways doing so but the point is
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Repetition of lies repetition of lies and so I know that's
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Jeff and the folks at Apologia did a program on the subject of the
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Rittenhouse stuff For some reason it won't go to full Screen.
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Oh, that's because I'm doing the wrong full screen Yeah, it's good enough and So, I'm not gonna spend too much time on it though listening what has struck me is
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The utter Insensibility on the part of so many people
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To They they experience no shame when they lie and lie openly
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So it's it's psalm 12. It's they they speak empty words To one another back and forth back and it it creates it allows lies to become accepted so You know
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Biden talked about the pandemic of the unvaccinated You don't hear that anymore.
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Do you people still believe it? But you don't hear it because it's too easy to demonstrate.
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It's not true Tell the people in Gibraltar, this is the pandemic of the unvaccinated
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They have canceled their their their cases are shooting through the roof. They've canceled Christmas.
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They're 100 % vaccinated and 40 % with boosters Okay These things do not stop the virus
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And in fact as I mentioned a couple programs ago, I can show you a paper from 2016
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That specifically says that the use of leaky vaccines That's what these are.
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These are that's the technical term leaky vaccines. They don't actually produce immunity
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Always results in bad things and that's what we're seeing and this was we were telling you this months ago but again, people just don't want to listen and They they like what they're being told.
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So anyway Back to the Rittenhouse thing you repeat a lie Over and over again, and it seems to me that once you introduce the the factor of panic
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You will believe the people Who promise you safety even if you know
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That you're actually not going to get safety from their promises You don't want to believe that people are saying you're gonna have to buck it up and take responsibility for yourself
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Even if they have the facts and so in the Rittenhouse case
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Very briefly if you watched The trial if you watched the video if you looked at the pictures
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There wasn't any question none but The narrative was established by the media long before the trial ever came out and even once the trial happened the narrative just gets repeated over and over again and I fear that many people
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Most people on left in our society remember that after that beta male and I mean
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More like a Delta male reporter For the New York Times about what?
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Three four years ago that told the story about firing an AR -15 Remember he was talking about how it almost dislocated his shoulder and caused bruising and the sound almost deafened him and and They're literally people that go out with signs and they have holes and signs this big and this is what an
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AR -15 does to you know and stuff like this and and the thing is
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I Wonder what percentage of the population Has ever held an
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AR -15 or fired an AR -15 knows what a 223 is 5 .56 millimeter Knows how many grains
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The bullet is anything like that at all and So it just seems like a lot of people are willing to believe lies about this stuff now.
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I have an AR -15 Yep, I have an AR -15 It it is not an assault rifle if you think it's an assault rifle you're an idiot
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You're an idiot You don't know what you're talking about. You're stupid Okay, can we just be honest about it and you want to be stupid?
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You're you're accepting of your stupidity Well, it says AR It's not what it stands for It's just amazing
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But remember that guy This is a 223 I've always been a little bit surprised that our military went to the 223 because in World War two you're you're firing 30 cal you know
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Springfield's and and much more punch that bullet than than the
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AR than the 223 has 5 .56 millimeter and And In comparison to you know,
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I could show you if I if I showed you a spent 223 or just a round because Sadly so many people don't even know
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People actually think that whole brass casing goes flying through the air and stuff like this
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I mean, they don't know I know they don't know Which means they should keep their mouths shut about things.
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They don't know But anyway, if I if I compared a 223 The the large the largest rifle
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I have is a honey rifle That was given to me a number of years ago that I've only used once in hunting and was successful That's why there's a that's why
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Betsy the black bear is hanging in the other room 338
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Win Mag 338 Winchester Magnum now All the shooters in the audience are going yeah that one
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Would fit the description of the guy that'll leave that leaves a mark on your shoulder if you don't have the gun seated properly and When I took my bear because of the way
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I was having to sit in the stand I couldn't put it in my shoulder. I had to have in a bite my bicep
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And yeah, I had a black and blue mark for days after just one round But that's a you wouldn't you'd be going oh, come on that There's that much of a difference.
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Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, it's huge and that's firing 180 grain a bullet 223s are normally doing 50 to 70 range grains.
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They're very small And that's the same size to 22 as far as diameter is concerned and so anyway
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They people just don't know what the laws are and They don't know the difference between an actual assault rifle semi -automatic
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They have no earthly idea What what any of these things are and they really will believe that these things can fire
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You know 300 rounds a minute stuff like this and you're just like Ignorance is bliss
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I guess So I shouldn't be surprised that all these media talking heads
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Just repeat the same lies over and over again But here's the fact and I'm gonna get to other stuff.
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Don't worry. I'm sorry. I'm going too long. Here's the fact Kyle Obviously has been a divorce or something in his family and his mom and dad don't live together
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They live what about 17 miles apart, I think Kyle works in Kenosha.
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He's a lifeguard and The AR -15 was with his family there in Kenosha And so He there was there's nothing illegal about having about him owning it
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Even if he owned one carrying it, that's why there that's why the the Charge was dropped.
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Why it was ever even placed. I have no earthly idea Whoever whoever did that should be fired for being an idiot.
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But anyway He was allowed to be carrying that long gun lots of people were on both sides that night
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He was trying to protect a Business which evidently today you're supposed to if you build up a business
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You should just be willing to have it burned down at The first time of anyone being stupid because that's what the whole thing was about The entire protest was stupid
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The police officer was cleared properly of of any wrongdoing
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And so you have if you look at these people look at the three people who were shot.
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They were all they all have a record Violent records and the one guy is a
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Convicted pedophile. Oh, yay. They are now being made saints. That's the left for you.
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It's great. So anyways Very soon you very quickly after all this happened he crossed state lines
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Yeah, so and that's what I'm talking about is it was repeated so often that it
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Communicated a lie without ever having to enunciate what the lie was why would
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Representatives and government officials be saying he crossed state lines if there wasn't something illegal about crossing straight state lines
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Well, there wasn't There wasn't Nothing at all. No charges ever made and Yet it was repeated so often
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That it communicated a falsehood that becomes a truth in many people's minds and continues to function that way
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That's what I'm talking about. It's not just the Rittenhouse case though. It's it's all tied together It's all part of the narrative type of situation
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So listen listen to this and it'll give you an idea of what I'm talking about August 24th
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Rittenhouse went up to the Kenosha area for his job as a lifeguard Rittenhouse crossed eight lines into a community that was not his
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My grandmother my aunt my uncle and cousins all live in the city of Kenosha, you know
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You've got it this young white kid defending the community That he's not even from what's your father's name?
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Michael Rittenhouse. He lived in Kenosha. Good evening from New York I'm Chris Hayes Kyle Rittenhouse was just 17 years old when he drove across state lines to Kenosha, Wisconsin The teenager drove from his home in Illinois Approximately one mile to Wisconsin across state lines driving across state borders.
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He's driving across state lines across the state line across state lines Cross state lines across state lines.
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If you look at the Rittenhouse case, he crossed state lines drives up to two events
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Cross state lines came across state line Kyle Rittenhouse who traveled across state lines from out of state out of his own state came
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Across state borders whenever you have a situation where a 17 year old is crossing state lines
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It's a white teenager he crosses a state line drives 30 minutes into Kenosha remember you can't cross the line cross state lines
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Cross state lines across state lines across state line Kyle Rittenhouse who crossed state lines
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Came across across state lines cross state lines He went across the state lines cross state lines cross state lines and cross state lines a 17 year old kid from out of state he
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Out of all cross state lines cross state lines cross state lines across state lines cross state lines went over state lines
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Drove across straight state lines. He drove across state had his mother drive him across state lines from out of state
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The teenager traveled across state lines Carl Rittenhouse traveled from his home in Illinois Across the state line to Wisconsin drove to a different state drives up to the state again
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Drove across state lines the state that he does not live in he traveled there from out of state
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He crossed state lines meaning he traveled across state lines a 17 year old who crossed state lines now again
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He drove from Illinois to Wisconsin the 17 year old from out of state who shows up to Kenosha So there you go and I'm sure that I'm sure we could have gone that they could have collected more and more and more and And it's just it is a we are getting a lesson in how and Why we have to be critical thinkers
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How we cannot be deceived by the mere repetition of Authoritative sources and That's what we're facing in this situation.
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It is It's an amazing thing I'll just comment that justice was done
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The thing that does concern me is that there was another trial going on of a black young man at the same time elsewhere
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Who was also acquitted on the grounds of self -defense? If you if you think it is
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Un -christian and there are Christians who who take a stance of pacifism to the point where They would say if someone tries to bash your head in with a skateboard let them bash your head in with a skateboard
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Now there is a vast difference between suffering persecution for being a Christian and Allowing your family or yourself to be harmed by thugs and cultural slime huge difference
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The there was when when the man was when the when the
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Jewish man Was descended upon by thieves on the road on the way to Jerusalem Jesus does not say and it was good that he was dumb enough to be traveling alone and unarmed
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There is nothing wrong in defending yourself against evildoers That's different than taking up arms as in creating some type of Christian militia to go off and Take on the
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Muslims or somebody else If you can't see what the difference is, I'm suggesting maybe you're not thinking very clearly
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But it is the responsibility of a man to protect his wife and his children and If That man has the opportunity of doing so effectively
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Then he should do so and by the way, it is appropriate to protect personal property if if a if a if a mob
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Starts coming down your driveway With torches and Molotov cocktails
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Attacking your home with by committing arson is
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Attacking you with a deadly weapon and To say that you have no right to defend your home and your family against that kind of a mob
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Civilization ends at that point civilization ends at that point and What we saw in this trial was people on the left saying you will not protect yourself.
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These mobs are our mobs They're criminals and We have put district attorneys in place in key jurisdictions who will never charge them with anything
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So they are our new brown shirts. And if you don't know who the brown shirts were They were the early
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Nazi thugs that got Hitler power in Germany in the early 1930s and So these new mobs
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BLM and Tifa They are the left's brown shirts and This trial was meant to say you will not defend yourself against these mobs if they want to Beat you senseless and you saw the meme.
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I I don't you know, I've wanted to find out that one guy early on the riots that was just Beaten to a pulp and You see him just on the ground
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And you can tell he's not an unconscious, but his body's broken. There's blood flowing out from his head
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I don't know if he survived or if he ever walked again or anything else But the meme said did not defend himself did not defend himself.
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That's a picture of Kyle Rittenhouse did defend himself. He's still alive Where they are not don't know
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But the idea is yes give in to lawlessness Because it's our lawlessness and They will allow it and promote it
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Up to the point where they've accomplished everything they want and then they will crush those people and they will crush them mercilessly mercilessly
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All you got to do is see how it's been done in the past the brown shirts had to be brought under control and Had to be used to maintain order once the new order had been established and That's how it happens in every communist revolution
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You use the people to burn down businesses until the income of those businesses is needed by the state
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And now you try that and you will be shot instantly trying to tell you where it's going
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Trying to tell you Okay we have been looking at Very fairly and very thoroughly a book by William Lane Craig on the subject of the only wise
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God and Part of this is to Facilitate everyone understanding there was a there was a shift by by the way right there
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To facilitate everyone understanding the major differences that exist Between reform theology and Molinism in all forms of synergism and and I I did hear
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Dr. Craig Disputing that Molinism is synergistic and I I guess we have to define synergism because it is
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Completely synergistic. It's foundationally synergistic. It's definitionally synergistic in its understanding of salvation anyways
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Or at least the application he's making of it, I suppose you could say it's such a narrow Claim that you don't have to make those applications, but I don't think that works anyway so Some will remember and I didn't go back because I know we did a program in this
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I remember very clearly doing a program in this about seven years ago When a
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Discussion took place Paul Helm. Dr. Paul Helm in London And William Lane Craig on unbelievable and I thought
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Paul Helm did a wonderful job and raised numerous
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Cogent and important issues and Toward the end of the program.
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It was very very interesting Unfortunately right when you you'd be losing the focus of a lot of folks
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Was when the actual debate took place the key issue of the debate was brought out
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Right at let me see here. I'm looking at it Yeah, six minutes before the end of the program
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So that's that's frequently how things work Right toward the end of the program the real issue came out and I think this really helps us to More accurately and fully understand exactly what dr.
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Craig is saying in his book as we're reviewing it We want to be accurate.
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I have been accused falsely of misrepresenting dr. Craig on this very point and I'm hoping in the future to challenge those who have accused me of those false falsehoods
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To substantiate their statements But that that's a little bit down the road So here is right the end of the program
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Paul Helm William Lane Craig discussing The issue and I'll emphasize.
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I'll play it more than once but I want you to hear Exactly where this goes. Okay. So but as far as you're concerned, this doesn't
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I mean I think Paul's concern is that by there being worlds which are not feasible for God to choose that somehow undermines
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God's Sovereignty because then it's suggesting but it weakens it weakens So you see the emphasis is now not on God's choosing me big because he wanted me to be his child
40:35
Eternally and unconditionally and by his grace But he's chosen a world Okay, okay, and I happen to be part of that world.
40:43
So you're sort of you're a by -product Where he's trying to get maximize the most number say of people.
40:50
Well, whatever his whatever his conditions of feasibility are There are certain worlds that are ruled out with it
40:56
That's clear But what we're coming as it were closer to the center what the conditions of feasibility are
41:01
Seems to be what we couldn't possibly be clear on these that would have to remain remain a mystery nonetheless
41:08
His love for me is not as it were direct and personal it's because I'm forming part of a world which is the which which is really
41:19
Don't I don't see that at all. I wouldn't agree with that at all God loves each individual and wants that person to be saved and he will choose to create a world of individuals
41:32
So the world isn't primary the individuals are primary and then they build together a kind of world as you accumulate individuals, but now here the the key statement is about to be uttered but but I Want to chime in there and Point out that I believe dr.
41:53
Helm was right and when dr Craig says I just don't see it at all. Then then he needs to hear more carefully what's being said
42:01
Paul Helm is saying in light of what? Of the statement that God's decree is based upon middle knowledge
42:08
This middle knowledge does not come from God's will that does not come from God's heart does not come from God's desires
42:16
It just is and the idea being that God envisions all feasible worlds, but actuates a world based upon Some Choice he has made which is nowhere.
42:36
Of course discussed in Scripture We have no way of knowing what it is. It's pure speculation no matter what we do But let's say it's maximum number of people saved with minimum amount of evil
42:47
That means that there are not only individuals who cannot be saved but that your role in that if you are a saved person your role in that is just you fit into that algorithm and There might be other potential people
43:05
Who will never be created because they don't fit into how God wants to accomplish that but their
43:14
Existence and middle knowledge is just as real as your existence of middle knowledge was before the decree and So it is true that this means that the specificity of election of divine election in Reform theology
43:30
Cannot be a part of the Molinistic scheme at all Because the only way you can say that is well, yeah, you can still have an elect but they're elect because they were the ones that would fit into the scheme and That's totally different than being they're the ones that God changed by his resurrection power
43:56
Right, so I I get exactly what is being said there so but here's ding ding ding if you've struggled with Molinism here it is as you accumulate individuals, but What the
44:11
Molinist does say that I think the Calvinist finds objectionable is that God is not in control
44:19
Of which subjunctive conditionals are true. Okay. He doesn't determine the truth value of The subjunctive conditionals that's outside his control and the
44:29
Calvinist Finds that objectionable. All right, so we are going to Zero in on that in just a second.
44:36
I wanted you to hear it What the Molinist does say that the Calvinist does find objectionable is that God is not in control of what subjunctive conditionals are true
44:50
He doesn't determine the truth value of these subjunctive conditionals.
44:56
That's Outside his control. All right.
45:02
Now, what are subjunctive conditionals? That's what makes up middle knowledge That's what
45:07
Peter would do in this circumstance, that's the subjunctive conditional and what he's saying is
45:12
God has no control over there So who did? The man can't because it doesn't exist yet This is where the whole and this is what
45:22
I was accused. You've misrepresented William Lane Craig. No, I haven't This is where the card dealer comes in.
45:28
God's got to deal with the cards. He's been dealt. What are the cards he's been dealt? They're subjunctive conditionals He didn't control them he didn't define them but they're true anyways, and they determine what he can do
45:40
Okay, so I did want to want you to hear this last section I mean the whole notion of middle knowledge as portrayed by Bill is objectionable to the
45:50
Calvinist as I said at the beginning He can as it were shunts shunts all this stuff off into one or other of God's other two sources of knowledge
45:57
I think that's been a very helpful distinction to have at the end actually in terms of a real kind of yeah point at Which this obviously breaks in terms of the view of God For for a
46:08
Molinist and a Calvinist. So I think I think I think Justin Found that to be useful as well.
46:15
That's what he just said it That's where that's where the the distinction is to be found and this is as far as I can tell
46:22
This is the key once again What the Molinist does say that I think the Calvinist finds objectionable is that God is
46:31
Not in control of which subjunctive conditionals are true Okay, he doesn't determine the truth value of the subjunctive conditionals.
46:41
That's outside his control That's outside his control So here's the issue if you've if you struggled if you've just sort of put on the site
46:52
This is I think the clearest statement That I found so far Subjunctive conditionals are those statements that say
47:05
In this situation Peter would deny Christ in this situation.
47:10
You will turn right not left You will choose this person to marry and not that person to marry
47:19
These are subjunctive conditionals and they have as it said truth value they are true, but God's not in control of those subjunctive conditionals
47:36
He doesn't determine the truth value these subjunctive conditionals. That's outside his control.
47:43
That's outside his control So they do and these subjunctive conditionals do not arise from his decree to create now if you say
47:57
Well, but if they're about creatures Creatures Then they have to arise
48:05
From God's creative power because no creature exists apart from God's creative power and I would say of course
48:12
That's why theologians up to Melina Did not have a middle knowledge
48:19
They did not see any need for a middle knowledge because they recognized that anything see middle knowledge
48:30
Envisions Mankind as these
48:37
Entities That exist outside of their context and we don't exist that way the decisions that I make or that you make are
48:52
Influenced by any myriad of things. I don't exist as some subjunctive conditional
49:00
I exist as the son of a particular set of parents and a particular set of grandparents with particular siblings and certain neighbors in a certain culture speaking a certain language at a certain time in history and every single one of those things is an influence upon the decisions that I make and Everything single one of those things might make it impossible to know what decisions
49:32
I will make sometimes I surprise myself And I'm pretty predictable.
49:39
I mean, it wouldn't be too difficult for for someone to predict where I'm gonna go But there are sometimes
49:45
I surprise myself and everybody else in the process, but that can't happen if you have true subjunctive conditional knowledge of whatever
49:56
I would do in any given situation and You and I both know that you've been placed in the exact same situation and done different things
50:03
Sometimes two three four five different set of things in the same situation So the idea that there is only one thing you would do
50:11
I challenge that that is that that that results in any meaningful idea of human freedom at all
50:17
I Mean any any Molinist who will use the old canard that we believe that human beings are just puppets
50:26
But then we'll turn around and say that there is a truth value to subjunctive conditionals. That means you will always do
50:34
The same thing in a given circumstance look in the mirror, you're the one with the puppet not me so You have to keep all these things in mind that we are complex beings here's the next thing
50:55
I Forget where I had this but I'm just let me just point it out Last and I was just thinking about this last evening.
51:03
So I thought let's let's discuss it Molinism Molinists as a group have a very weak anthropology and a very weak doctrine of depravity and sin and very often you will hear them decrying the reformed understanding of man's deadness and sin man's slavery to sin and All the associated things that go along with that and there's a reason for that because think about it if you have the example that dr.
51:45
Craig uses in his book is You have Middle knowledge true subjunctive conditional about Peter denying
51:58
Christ Was Peter's denial of Christ Sinful was
52:05
Peter a fallen person. What is the relationship?
52:13
between middle knowledge and The federal headship of Adam if federal headship is true and Romans chapter 5 says it is and If we are in Adam and fall in Adam That means as Romans chapter 8 says
52:37
That we cannot even submit ourselves to law of God do what is pleasing in God's sight that means there's a whole realm of possible choices
52:47
That are precluded We can't we can't do those things, but then we're regenerated
52:54
We can How does middle knowledge deal with that? How can you have truth value?
53:04
To subjunctive conditional statements about one human being That is true both when he's unregenerate and when he then is regenerate
53:19
Because the point of regeneration in their theology is up to the individual, right?
53:28
so Wouldn't middle knowledge change dependent upon the actions of the individual
53:35
So that now there are choices available to the regenerate person that were not
53:43
Available to the unregenerate person How do you have? went from whence derives this middle knowledge in light of the doctrine of original sin the federal headship of Adam and the doctrine of regeneration now remember
54:06
The guy dream this up was Roman Catholic. And so there are gaping holes in his soteriology
54:16
They're gaping holes in his scripturology in His sources of authority.
54:26
So how do you make that work? I Don't know but obviously what
54:34
I'm saying is a recognition of God's absolute sovereignty and freedom in the election of an undeserving people not based upon Something that literally exists outside of God If it's outside of his control, that's outside his control
54:56
But since the human beings don't exist yet. It's outside their control Because they haven't been put into that circumstance
55:06
Because the circumstances are dependent upon the decree of God See what happens when you start trying and and Really?
55:19
When you Listen to the Molinists Most of them will admit and will recognize
55:27
That when they talk about scripture, they're only their only goal is To say that Molinism can be made amenable to consistent to not completely contradictory to Scriptural statements
55:45
Not that it derives its essence from scripture In fact,
55:50
I think most Molinists honestly if they were if they were just to be straight -up honest with us would say
55:59
These are not issues that can be addressed scripturally Scripture just does not address this stuff.
56:07
And that's where I say. Oh, but it does. Oh But it does and so if you would start with the decree of God If you would start by asking yourself the question
56:21
All right, I will tell of the decree of Yahweh is what the psalmist says
56:33
What decree of Yahweh and Once you dive into that biblically it involves
56:44
God's Freely expressing his desire to glorify himself in how he works in human history
56:52
So God specifically chose
56:59
Joseph to function in the role that he did in bringing the people into bondage in slavery in Egypt and to save That line the line that he had promised
57:17
Abraham would be the line through which the Messiah would come He saved that line by putting them in slavery in Egypt He glorified himself in that fashion.
57:28
That's his decree. He's working that out It's not that well
57:36
That's the the the feasible world Where that those individuals and it's a limited number of individuals when you think about those
57:46
You know God's choices would be extremely limited Once you factor in prophecy
57:54
Because once God makes promises through Abraham God's the only feasible worlds that God can
58:03
Create are the ones where that line that has now been prophesied is
58:10
Maintained Jeff any idea How many lines of in human history have been wiped out by all sorts of things
58:19
War and famine and flood and disease and everything else. Well, he's in control of all the things because in Molin ism
58:24
He he controls every single aspect of everything. It is absolute complete providential control of every circumstance why so that Mankind will only freely do what he does
58:42
Of course, you only freely do what he does because God's puts him in the situation knowing what he's gonna do.
58:48
I'm sorry I don't consider the vast majority of people who are advocates of autonomy
58:53
Find that to be an extremely shallow version of autonomy. I'm sorry.
59:01
Oh It's a totally stacked deck. Of course it is But be it as it may the point is once you have prophecy functioning
59:10
The number of worlds is constricted greatly Because you have to make sure that that one line that one family continues on and God was utterly free to do that in the way that he chose to so to glorify himself and Isn't it interesting the plagues on Egypt were plagues that demonstrated the supremacy of Yahweh over the gods of Egypt and That was purposeful
59:42
That was God expressing his eudachia. He is the kind intention of his will but in Molinism, that was just the the the best feasible way of making that happen and There might have been other feasible ways, but it wouldn't fit the algorithm of Most saved and we don't know it's all guesses.
01:00:09
It's completely guesses But So once you get into the details
01:00:17
Once you see Molinism exists out here It is a philosophical
01:00:23
Construct it is not derived from Scripture It is only made the only attempt is to make it try to make it seem consistent with Scripture, but it but no one can really argue that this that Molina was studying the
01:00:37
Bible and Came up with this this type of stuff Molina was studying the teachings the
01:00:44
Roman Catholic Church and The teachings of the Reformers and he was under command to find a way to shortcut the
01:00:51
Reformation. That's where this came from and so it exists out here and once you try to The farther and I think this is why most
01:01:03
Molinists don't even bother they do a couple verses and say see it's not contradictory We could view it in this way, but it's not this isn't really where it comes from But it's it has great theological value and insight
01:01:17
That's the argument. That's that's the statement. That's that's what's being said because they recognize if you really try to make this fit and And put it into biblical history and use it in that way the result is a complete catastrophe
01:01:38
Because it doesn't work Because you have and it's and for most of them it's it's hidden that's where it wasn't hidden.
01:01:46
That's where it was straightforward But that's the necessary assertion in Mere Molinism.
01:01:55
It's still there as long as you assert that middle knowledge exists and you define it as true
01:02:02
Subjunctive conditionals that are not determined by God now you you may even not even get there
01:02:08
May not even use that language, but if that's what you mean by middle knowledge Then you're stuck with it there's there's no place for you to go and This for me, you know,
01:02:22
Paul Helm was right. This is well, it was William Lane Craig that was right He's the one who said here here here it is again what the
01:02:32
Molinist does say that I think the Calvinist finds objectionable Bingo Thank you,
01:02:38
Bill. That's exactly the point this is the issue all the rest of the stuff that you get into and you know, it's necessary to define the categories and you got to do some of the historical stuff about natural and free knowledge and so You've some people because what middle knowledge middle of what you know, you've got to do all that stuff so that people have the context but Once you once you get it all out on the table, there is the issue right there and That's what we were talking about.
01:03:11
We talked about the card dealer Because if God is not in control of which subjunctive conditionals are true the card dealer issue was who is
01:03:24
Who determined that? Because we read straight from Bill's book
01:03:32
God's decree is based upon and Delimited by those are the terms based upon delimited by middle knowledge
01:03:40
Middle knowledge is made up of these true subjunctive conditionals where they come from where they come from and You end up if you want to see spinning
01:03:53
Faster and faster and faster and faster just stay focused that issue
01:03:59
Okay, I'm not gonna be I'm not gonna be distracted from this that's what we got to talk about right there that's absolutely key and I think that that particular
01:04:11
Assertion really really did help with that. So So with that in mind just one last thing in here we'll we'll wrap up in The last section we looked at in the book
01:04:32
Let's apply what we've talked about today for example God knew that Peter if he were to exist and be placed a certain circumstance to deny
01:04:38
Christ three times by a free decision of His will God then chose to create one of those possible worlds.
01:04:46
So How does Peter's fallen state? regenerate state Influence of sin influence the sin of others
01:04:56
How does that impact any of this? How does the presence the Holy Spirit in a believer's life?
01:05:04
And I just just that just struck me Think about let's this just hit me.
01:05:11
So let's think it through live on the air Can the
01:05:16
Spirit of God Function in a believer's life in such a way as to cause you to make decisions that you would never make otherwise or Think about yourself
01:05:34
Given the presence of the Spirit in your life now, let's say you were converted at 25 and you sowed your seeds as a as a young man and Now you are deeply convicted of your need for fidelity to your wife and You recognize that the reason you've been faithful to your wife is because the
01:05:58
Holy Spirit of God in your life All right How can you have prior to the decree to create and to redeem
01:06:08
How can you have? true subjunctive conditional knowledge of what someone will do in any given circumstance
01:06:21
When that person lives part of their life spiritually dead and A person lives part of their life spiritually alive indwelt by the
01:06:30
Holy Spirit of God Will not that person make completely different decisions in light of The presence of the
01:06:40
Spirit and is there a Christian who will look me in the eye and say oh, no We can't have the
01:06:47
Spirit of God Acting in such a way as to change what we would do we need to be autonomous at all times
01:06:56
I don't want that autonomy. I want spiritual leadership I want the
01:07:02
Spirit of God to smack me upside the head and say wake up Don't follow the world.
01:07:09
That's the way of death. I want the Spirit of God to strengthen me to make the right decisions and do the right things
01:07:17
Don't you? Are you willing to sacrifice?
01:07:25
Your philosophical constructs So as to have the
01:07:32
Spirit's guidance And indeed control Yeah control in your life hmm, so and then we
01:07:48
Emphasize this before by a free decision of his will God then chose to create One of those possible worlds not to create
01:07:55
Peter in that way that this is what Paul Helm was trying to say And he did say it, but this is
01:08:00
I'm just just making application here We've never communicated. So Paul if you ever watch this thought you did a great job
01:08:08
Thank you, and appreciate what you've done in your your writings over the years too bad in all the time You know, did we meet in London?
01:08:15
I've been there so many times Maybe we did If we have I've I've forgotten and I apologize.
01:08:21
But anyway What he was trying to say is the the object of God's freedom
01:08:30
Becomes so limited that it's no longer sovereignty That's what he's saying. It's a it's a diminishment
01:08:37
Because God is choosing to create worlds not expressing his glory in the creation of individuals
01:08:46
In time who will do What the decree?
01:08:52
says they will do without making them puppets and Once we finish the review,
01:08:59
I really want to again emphasize. I I don't and I still don't understand why Molinus can't hear this.
01:09:07
There are a number of Molinus who can't but I've said over and over again the greatest refutation of the puppet argument is
01:09:16
Jesus and I know one Molus. I have no idea what Christmas has to do with this
01:09:22
It has to do with the fact That God entered into human flesh were their true conditional subjunctive statements
01:09:32
About what Jesus would do he was a man wasn't he and if God has from some other source that he is he is not in control of Which subjunctive conditionals are true.
01:09:53
He doesn't determine the truth value these subjunctive conditionals. That's outside his control Was Jesus truly a man did
01:09:59
Jesus truly interact with other men? Then are there true?
01:10:05
Subjunctive conditionals about what Jesus would do as a man now, it is interesting
01:10:16
It is interesting, I wonder if this has anything to do with why
01:10:26
Bill Craig is a neo -apollinarian why what's apollinarianism?
01:10:33
Well you have In apollinarianism, well in the hypostatic
01:10:39
Union in the Orthodox doctrine you have the divine and the human natures in perfect balance
01:10:50
There is no Mixture of the two to where Jesus is 50 % one 50 % of the other. What's that called?
01:10:56
Eutychianism. That's Eutychianism There is no separation of the two so they are no longer in one person
01:11:06
Nestorianism Nestorius probably didn't believe that but let's not get into that right now and there is no removal of the human the true human aspect of mind and soul and replacement of that By the logos or or by the spiritual aspect of the divine nature so that he's not truly and fully human
01:11:34
Apollinarianism and Bill Craig is a neo -apollinarian So if you hold this view it was that in any way influenced by middle knowledge by this objection
01:11:51
I Don't know. I don't know if that's Very interesting to think about very interesting to think about indeed.
01:12:02
Yeah. Yeah Well, anyway, I have now Made everyone
01:12:10
The air ones reaching for the Advil the Tylenol and everything else right now, I'm sorry about that but I heard that at the end of the
01:12:20
Paul Helm discussion on unbelievable and I just thought it was extremely important What the
01:12:27
Molinist does say that the Calvinist does find objectionable is that God is not in control of which subjunctive
01:12:33
Conditionals are true. He doesn't determine truth value of these subjunctive conditionals. That's outside his control That is the essence of human autonomy in Molinism.
01:12:43
That's where it snuck in That's where it's and there there are Molinists Who have never even thought about this?
01:12:52
they've just bought a Simpler version and they've never even gotten down to this point of going
01:12:59
What is the origin if God's not in control of it and it's a truth That then constrains and delimits the actions of God where'd it come from?
01:13:10
That's why I say I was in no way shape or form in light of his own words misrepresenting
01:13:16
Bill Craig when I focused upon The car dealer analogy because this is what he was saying.
01:13:25
That's one way of saying time to finish up. Oh Yes, yes, so yeah and this
01:13:35
January 16th 2014 Was so I assume there was a program.
01:13:40
Yeah, so if you want to go back and Hear what we said back when this first aired then
01:13:50
January 16th, but I was right afterwards because I think
01:13:58
That Discussion took place. Yeah This is the discussion took place and unbelievable on January 4th, it aired on January 4th 2014
01:14:09
So 12 days later We we were we were talking about it, but I doubt that I focused in on that I've done more reading lately.
01:14:23
Yeah. Yeah, so if I go back January 16th 2014 We can expand upon Some of these things.
01:14:31
All right Especially with what I said in the first half hour, this is probably the last one.
01:14:37
It's been nice having you listening to the dividing line we are on Odyssey already if you want to look over there and and Catch stuff because that's probably where we're gonna be after making the comments.
01:14:50
I did the first half the program though I'll be honest with you straightforward. You know why we're still here because we're not monetized
01:14:58
That's why The bots are concerned about where the money goes and I think that's why we're still here, huh?
01:15:09
so years ago, I Read their terms. I know I know and I went we don't want to do this
01:15:15
I know I know I know but I think their concern is primarily money And so that's that's why they do the things they're doing.
01:15:22
So anyways, we'll see if we're here next time I don't know when it's gonna be Because it's
01:15:29
Thanksgiving week and I'm supposed to leave on Friday and So we will see but keep an eye on the app and Lord willing.