Cultish: Exploring the Dangers of Yoga

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00:02

All right, welcome back ladies and gentlemen to cultish entering the kingdom of the cults.

00:07

My name is Jeremiah Roberts I'm one of the co -hosts here as always. I'm here and joined with Andrew the super sleuth of the show

00:16

How are you doing, man? I'm doing well. I'm doing I'm doing pretty good today, dude. Really excited to be here. Yes Yes, so we are we're in the middle of the onslaught of summer here in Arizona So I don't know about you this time of year

00:28

It always pushes me to the brink of like why why do

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I live here again? But then winter comes and it feels all wonderful and everything like that So it does

00:38

It always feels like a salt like we're just living in a dry sauna no matter like where you go Like you can't escape it if people did yoga outside right now.

00:46

It wouldn't be hot yoga. It'd be death yoga. So pretty much and Speaking of yoga, that's what we're talking about today

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There's a lot to impact there's many angles that you can kind of approach this whole subject and I Think it's always the best way to do it.

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Well, first of all before we kind of jump into that Christine Swan, I got it, right?

01:06

Okay. How are you? I'm great. I really am good. So you're having me Yes, you're here in studio to talk to us about yoga

01:16

You know a little thing or two about it. I know a little thing or two So tell everyone just real quick before we kind of get into the nitty -gritty what tell you give them a just a summary of some

01:26

Of your credentials what your experience is just in the industry Just tell them just a little bit about your involvement.

01:33

I Started I started taking some yoga classes in 2007 and I had

01:41

My sister -in -law had said I should be taking yoga for quite a while I've always been in fitness and I just said no

01:47

It's not for me just because I thought it was a sissy sport if you will so anyway, I was

01:53

I was really in a in a point of Gosh, like a near nervous breakdown or ready to do something drastic just after my

02:04

My kids were gone Anyway, so I decided okay. I'm I'll try one class

02:11

I went to a a hot big room class and it about killed me But it didn't and so I was hooked in terms of the competitive nature of me

02:23

Just hooked me in and it was I'm not gonna let that kick my butt like I'm gonna do it so I kept going back and back and back and Just little by little it it helped me.

02:35

I didn't I didn't get depressed I I it just really did help.

02:40

Mm -hmm However, it also then led me to go like I want to teach this because I love to teach

02:45

I'm a teacher by all the other things, too So I went into training in 2008 and had been teaching till 2016

02:56

Wow, wow. Wow. Yeah. I don't know how much you want to get into that You know, it's funny you were talking how hot it is like the hot yoga lineage which

03:07

I went to the training under So it was there's there's Bikram Yoga, which everybody knows that's a pretty well -known name

03:15

And then one of his his master teacher was called Jimmy Barkin And so I went to train in Florida Fort Lauderdale in 2008 is a four -week intensive down there and it's still in that Lineage if you will

03:31

I'll say that too. We can unpack that later of hot yoga Which comes from Calcutta India, which

03:38

I hear I've not been there is supposedly on a coast and very hot and The yoga is always done outside.

03:45

So we were talking about that and it's very humid So that's the essence of where that comes from.

03:50

Hmm. Interesting Wow Wow, there's there's definitely there's definitely a lot to unpack it.

03:56

You have something you want to ask real quickly under no No, that's good. That's good That's interesting Yeah, and we have a lot of hot yoga out here in Arizona, yeah, you know, yes, it's tremendous and it's one of those things too

04:09

Like you look at I'm thinking back. We had Alexander Larson. He was just on our cultish stay at the

04:15

Union very recently He's the brewer of coffee coffee, by the way, if you want to get some good caffeinated

04:21

Have good caffeine experience definitely go to kahi roasting co .com and definitely were there and that will help support cultish but anywho, he

04:29

He has a story to where he became a devout. He was a devout Hari Krishna for about 10 years

04:35

So a lot of times what you'll see is that there's I mean, this is a big thing when when our show

04:41

Walter Martin had a huge influence on us doing a show kind of in his wake and kind of trying to at least continue

04:49

Just at some small minuscule level his legacy that he left but one of the things that he noticed during the time during the 70s is that You had a lot of the

05:00

Eastern philosophies really kind of moving their way to the West In many different ways

05:07

Hari Krishna was just one of them one of the recent series we did on Charles Manson We talked about that too during the summer of love.

05:14

There is all of these different, you know Hari Krishna's and there are just a lot of different ideas and philosophies

05:20

We had the Beatles who went to India were having their experience and you could definitely tell that had a huge influence in their later music as well, too

05:29

So in many ways you would see too that the yoga industry it's the numbers are staggering as far as just the amount of Just just the amount of involvement the amount of money that that's involved

05:43

I mean obviously right now you'd have with the lockdown a lot of the yoga studios You know are having to make some large huge adjustments.

05:51

That was one of the things that really intrigued me Maybe you could just talk about this too as we unpack this

05:57

We watched a documentary that you recommended a yoga Inc. Mm -hmm, which kind of talked about the yoga industry

06:04

So there's obviously There's an aspect to of like the spiritual components. We'll get into that in a moment

06:09

But um, I was very fascinated by that especially how The yogas are there's different yogis who are not happy with the current yoga industry because it's almost

06:22

Abandoning the original aspect of abandoning possessions and and not being attached to anything yet there's lots and lots of Zeros in regards to money attached to the yoga industry if they're almost antithetical to each other

06:37

So made from a start explain to people like they just the industry and what that looks like me Respective when the ten years that you're in it

06:45

So when you say yoga industry what I what I want to clarify is, you know, let's just start with what yoga means which is just the yoking or the union of the the body the mind in the spirit and it's an internal Practice to get you into yourself and then to connect and yoke with Brahman Brahman.

07:10

Yeah Mm -hmm. So it's that's yoga now the industry Has become as you called it.

07:18

I'll say commercialized if you will. Yeah, and it's just like any other fitness fad

07:24

Except it's being built up a lot And I think I know if I'm right the big influence was when

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Yo, Paramahansa Yogananda came out from India Late 50s early 60s to Los Angeles his little brother is

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Bikram or no then Bishnu Ghosh was his brother and then there was another one

07:48

Bikram so Bikram came out into LA in the 60s Wow, he started doing the practice practice with the

07:58

Hollywood stars and we're talking Shirley MacLaine and Raquel Welsh were the big ones who

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Took him aside and said this is what you need to do. So we're gonna show you how to monetize it and we're gonna show you how to Replicate and we're gonna show you how to get out there because they wanted this to go out to the world

08:16

I think that was probably one of the first ones that went out in that realm to go and Make it an industry if you will

08:24

Which is why it was yoga Inc. He was yeah Yeah, in fact There was a recent Netflix documentary about Bikram, which it was very intriguing.

08:34

Did you ever see that documentary? I started watching that one. Okay, even before we were even talking about doing episode. Yeah, it's very interesting

08:40

Yeah, so, okay So in it he mean one of the things that it taught and it's interesting too because it taught yoga and came out in 2007 which is interesting because that's when you started

08:50

Practicing it. Yes And this is also interesting too before I jump it actually

08:56

I just I just thought of this too is is You mentioned that you had a lot of things going on in regards to just Difficulties and almost like a family crisis that kind of yoga became almost like an outlet

09:11

We're almost like an escape and it's interesting too because while I mean when we talk about cultish movements a lot of times it creates a crisis where something happens in someone's life where there's it's life interrupted and people have to go to find something for an outlet or to find meaning and purpose and In your case, it was yoga.

09:31

So you would that was connected to right? absolutely You know and in the middle of all that I I thought

09:40

I was a Christian being raised Catholic I mean that I've got to throw that in there because I thought it was raised

09:46

Catholic, but I wasn't in the Bible the yoga It did it.

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I cannot tell you how or why it was just something that it hooked me first and foremost

09:58

With my weakness, which is I want to challenge physically And that was what it hooked me in and if you talk to probably ten different people

10:07

I believe you'll get ten different answers of how they got hooked how how it spoke to them

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And and what is it that drew them in because we're all different. Yeah, and Satan Satan knows exactly how to get you in Yeah, well,

10:20

I don't agree and some of them there's a while where I was I was like practice I went to a couple of yoga classes.

10:25

I actually went to a couple of Bikram yoga classes I bought a group on but even what attracted me to do that is

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I was doing Tony Horton's p90x and in that There was you know, there there is the one of the

10:39

DVDs which is yoga It's like one of the sort of like relax and recovery days and that got me really intrigued because it was physically challenging

10:47

And there's a unit also to when you have people like Joe Rogan who promotes it and calls it like it's a martial art you do against yourself and and so it gets promoted in such a way to or does seem extremely appealing and it does have real physical

11:01

Components and like health benefits that come with it as far as you know Flexibility being able to do those sorts of things like if you look at the post that they do

11:08

That's not something anyone can do. It does require discipline as well, too Yeah, I think

11:14

I think where it comes from this detachment from Detaching yoga from a spiritual nature, especially in America was it comes from our

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I'd say indoctrination like a public school system or a Let's say a secular world where the spiritual out the spiritual is dead

11:31

Like, you know, the Nietzsche God is dead and that there is no God. So there's no spirituality yoga is nothing but stretches it's nothing but Pretty much higher education eliminating the spiritual reality of being human so like let's say like Joe Rogan for example, or other people with the

11:49

Popularization of yoga in our society and a secularization of yoga. It comes from the world view that we're indoctrinated into, you know

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So there's almost that detachment that we have grown even as Christians from a spiritual reality that we live in We're not just physical beings we're also spiritual beings but growing up in America We face that every day.

12:11

We we ourselves are also Indoctrinated, you know to our current culture and the things that are going on if we're not renewing our mind daily in the word

12:19

So I'd say that's where that That almost like acceptance of yoga comes so easily in the secularization and actually creating an industry of it

12:27

It's so easy in America because we've divorced ourselves from the spiritual deception, right?

12:35

Totally yeah Yeah, and to one of the questions I was gonna ask just because it you're just from the industry.

12:42

So was there a point where? There was initially as the physical But then what was that was there a point that you you realize that it was a spiritual thing as well, too

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And if so, like what was the crossing line when you became attached that way? I mean, it's I believe you you could make the argument and I would make the argument that's inherently a spiritual practice

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But people need shouldn't initially will just deal the physical component. But what was that process like for you?

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Well having as I first started out into it. It was it was just physical.

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I'll be honest on that one but then there Came to be just by doing it so often five six days a week there became just a sense of peace and I began to notice like after seven eight months of Oh, I'm not

13:34

Cussing as I'm driving in there or stuck in traffic or which I had a propensity to do I little things didn't bother me anymore interesting and I I thought about that it jumped out at me

13:46

Interestingly enough too and I go why and I thought oh, I've been doing yoga Okay, so they say it does peace and helps you so that's

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I think at that moment I switched into oh, okay There's you know, there's something more to this

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Not in the realm of Oh spirit But oh, I'm at peace with God.

14:07

I would call God, you know my God and so and then you know, then

14:12

I started listening to Joel Osteen and that just kind of was like a combustion fire of I could see the spirit in it

14:22

Yeah. Yeah, and also I was intrigued too because we talked a little bit about this

14:28

We have series we we briefly cut we had about five minutes left of our podcast

14:33

We did with Doreen Virtue and Melissa that took place roughly a year ago now I was telling them that we had our the recording end up being later on So I had to literally rush through the episode and get them to the airport to catch their flights

14:47

Yeah, so one of the things we talked about in this here in the series Bethel in the New Age was not Really target necessary Bethel but kind of a general overview of a lot of times the

14:56

New Age It's not just infiltrating Western society, but really the Christian Church at large and you'll see a

15:02

Christian yoga classes Christian meditation not not not biblical meditation where you're focusing in on the

15:09

Word of God, but Eastern meditation and somehow you could still apply biblical verses to those practices of Emptying your mind and so forth and so on but it was interesting too because you mentioned kind of in the outline in 2005 you were really into Jesus calling by Sarah Young.

15:30

I Remember specifically going through that book and I had no idea what the it even was

15:36

I just right away within a couple of devotionals. We're in this text read and this one person kept on texting these devotionals.

15:42

I Just kept on telling myself. This does not sound like something Jesus would say.

15:48

Hmm It was always every single it's almost every single devotional always end up being Caught up in some sort of mystical print the piece of my presence, but it almost seemed like it was just some sort of like mystical

16:01

Being you know becoming just become almost becoming one with the universe. It was very New Age II to say the least but wouldn't it seem that um

16:11

With your experience that even like a book like that would make it would get you into into being a practitioner and even a

16:20

It Didn't I mean I read it it that was kind of my so you can see

16:26

I was Just in having a struggle with with my issues and my challenges and life and depression and going through that I was

16:35

I was seeking obviously and I Had been going to different Christian churches, but the

16:40

Jesus calling Kind of was an introduction to New Ages if you will, although I'd been you know listening to Doreen virtue, but thank goodness.

16:51

She's the one that I saw that got me out of it Yes, praise God And it just makes it it how could

17:00

I've really been trying to think about this What it does is it just puts this thin veil over you if you if you have a belief in God And you know the

17:10

Bible or you you don't I don't know the Bible. I'm learning but I wasn't in it every day

17:17

But it puts this veil over you oh now I know the Bible it gives you a false sense of oh

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I'm spiritual because I'm reading about Jesus. I've got a little scripture that I'm reading every day.

17:31

Mm -hmm And then that just gives you that false sense. So Going into the yoga then it's like oh, that's the piece that I've been hearing about In a

17:44

Jesus calling book or that's what that's what God says in the Bible and it just it's just the biggest level and it's subtle and It's only in being out of it that I could tell you it's just this little worm

17:59

That just works through you and you think you're doing great. I thought

18:05

I was just so good and It was everything and I'm being spiritual, but I'm Christian Because I believe in Jesus and I did not see anything wrong in it

18:19

Hmm, so would there be an aspect to just because of the discipline the work that it takes it's almost that Because it's inherently spiritual.

18:27

It almost become like a workspace righteous. It's like a workspace righteousness All right, explain that then

18:32

I work like workspace So in other words you would it be because I mean When it talks about like the true gospel is that all that righteousness all the righteousness is like filthy rags

18:41

Right and before a holy God But the idea within yoga is to become is to become one to expand to expand your consciousness, right?

18:51

and so so so what I'm hearing is that there's almost a This this veil is like a lens a lens that is almost like this

19:00

Gnostic way to interpret scripture that that maybe maybe for a time It's it's hard to understand the

19:06

Bible and its fullness without the Holy Spirit and dwelling somebody and illuminating the text You are actually being under solid elder leadership at a local body in a local church, but instead

19:16

You start getting these these glasses now that illuminate certain texts to you that become an additional standard to the

19:24

Word of God that opens up this whole new realm of Possibility and thinking through the peace that you could obtain through yoga.

19:30

Is that is that kind of like what you're saying? Yeah, yes you nailed it

19:35

I mean as you speak at that out I'm just I Just feel again this deep deep deep deep sorrow and repentance for not even knowing

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How abominable this this was this practice? And so your words ring very true.

19:53

Yes. Wow. Yeah I Know it's glad that you like I really appreciate your heart behind it.

20:02

And in fact, it reminds me of Doreen how she felt when it comes to When she read in Deuteronomy 18 when it talks about these practices that are abominable and like it compares

20:14

Practices of the New Age and the occult align online with child sacrifice. So God takes us incredibly seriously

20:23

So I think we should talk about it's just That there's the people are good that people would agree with us

20:30

But there's also people that would I'm already looking at some of the comments and things like that that would either be skeptical and Say that no, it's there.

20:40

I can just do this visit. This is just physical components. This is just a stretching thing No, I can do it and be fine.

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And there's other people who say no, it's inherently wrong bad But it's just good to kind of be very level -headed

20:53

So why don't you just to the best of your abilities to kind of explain people just a little bit more in -depth about Yoga and its origins like when you talk about it being inherently spiritual

21:03

We mentioned that the beginning of the podcast, but maybe you could shed some more light into that certainly,

21:09

I'm We had talked earlier that yoga, and when we say yoga yoga is

21:16

One of the six schools of Hinduism. So it is in essence a religion

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It's inherently Hindu. It is inherently Hindu. You cannot dismiss it now

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You know within yoga the yoking of it. There's different paths Like pranayama is a is a path of yoga, which is using the breath

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Which is what Paramahansa Yogananda would do he didn't do the physical stuff He was just like no, but through the breathing he trying to get to that space the physical that we now call yoga are are the asanas and the asanas are literally mean to You're under fire to go on to go under deep intense pressure to wear your body down To the point where when you are finished and you're in your final corpse pose shavasana that's when your mind is empty and you get to go and connect with the one and That's when you have the teacher or somebody

22:22

Inputting things into your empty mind. So stop stop me if I'm thinking of it wrong but it's almost sounds like in a sense where the the material body in itself is a is something that disrupts the

22:34

Spiritual connection that you can have with Brahman in the sense So the breaking down of the body is almost a breaking down of the sensual world around us in a sense

22:43

That is that is one of the purposes of doing the asana. Yes to do out the senses

22:48

Yeah, it's all here in the good old Wikipedia But but that is the purpose of it through that asana practice.

22:54

Then you go through other things like Pratyahara or one of them where you withdraw from your senses and you go within or meditation and There's a name for that too.

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So you it was Patanjali's eight limb path where you follow these different modes of yoga again

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Asana is what we call yoga But yoga is the whole thing to pull you in to connect you to that one and go into yourself

23:26

To get rid of all that kind of like the Buddhists get rid of all suffering, right? Yes, so there's a way to break the karmic cycle.

23:34

So there's I Don't I'm not sure if this if this has to do with yoga But because I'm not an expert by any means in yoga or Hinduism, but I'm just thinking a way

23:44

Then to break the karmic cycle and rebirth right in a to reach this to end reincarnation in the sense

23:52

It can be achieved through yoga in a way, you know, I don't know the answer to that I'm not one on Hindu.

23:57

I know they do believe in karma and I know that that the The afterlife or what you were just talking about, but I don't know the essence in the term of the yoga

24:08

Okay in that respect. Yeah, it seems like it must be connected for some reason if it's a practice yet and the cycle of rebirth

24:14

Yes. Yeah Yeah. Yeah. So one other question too, is that some people would say only

24:21

I may ask you this some people would say that it's a That it's just a it's just a physical exercises or physical

24:31

Component to it that just so happens to have a spiritual aspect of it Or and there's a but there's other people to argue and say that's an inherent

24:38

It's inherently spiritual that just so happens to have a physical component So if I was if the person would just to come up to you like right now and you can avoid elaborate on again

24:48

But if someone just says no, it's a it's just Yeah, it's just stretching but just so happened just some people kind of use that to do this

24:56

Hindu stuff but it's not necessarily connected in order to Do those different poses which have those origins like how just off the get -go.

25:04

How would you respond to that? I'd I'd go right to the Bible. I mean we are told whether they are

25:10

Christian or not or Bible believer like we are told we are not to do any of the

25:16

Practices from other religions period period and what's the greatest commandment?

25:22

You should love the Lord God with all your heart with all your soul and with all your mind Wow Yeah, that that in and of itself because I said those things.

25:32

I mean when Friends would come up and say hey, you know, I'm Christian I don't know if I should do yoga and I'm like well just keep

25:39

God in your mind and don't you know Just forget you're doing it. It's not it's not bad

25:45

I mean completely, of course, I said that and again, I'm so deeply repentant

25:51

I want to go to everyone and say that's why I'm here. I am so sorry like If you get in the

25:56

Bible, the Bible is very clear you shall not worship any other gods

26:02

And you're worshipping yourself and trying to connect with some unknown deity that You call

26:10

Brockman. Yeah, so I don't know that I answered your question But I will be very very forceful in saying it's just the

26:19

Bible. Yeah, God tells us I know I think that's definitely That's definitely plausible in the sense that the pagans.

26:27

Yeah, he's coming he can in the law of God It's it's commanded to not do what the pagans do, right? And I would say that yoga was around then yoga has been around for thousands of years

26:35

So I would say yeah I'm pretty sure there's probably people doing some yoga or some type of form of yoga around them in those areas

26:43

I'd say that's totally yeah And and you know, then you then you ask well, well, okay

26:50

Christine G. Do you not stretch anymore? I'm like, no the body's a body.

26:55

I'm gonna stretch it I'm not gonna go seek out a studio and I am

27:00

NOT gonna go have somebody else up there who? if we can go into teacher training down the road here who doesn't know anything about the physical body and Listen and have all these gods on the wall these

27:12

Hindu gods on the wall I'm not ever going to do that again

27:17

Do I take my body and move it by listening to it and moving it and did you know that you know?

27:23

Physical therapy they have similar movements, but it has nothing to do with the the going into the studio so I Stretch my body all the time.

27:33

Do I do the yoga poses for doing it pretty much? No, I don't anymore I find some other way to get the stretch knowing my body without Going into any of that.

27:44

Yeah. Yeah Yeah Makes perfect sense to me. I mean Jesus says I'm the way the truth in life

27:50

No one comes to the father but by me and Jesus is the only way that we obtain peace with God But there seems to be a process that people are doing now in Order to overcome some type of life's challenges or anxiety in their life to do these specific stretches and breathing techniques to obtain peace

28:03

But they got to keep doing it and keep doing it. But where's your peace truly lie? Like is it in a form of idolatry or should you have peace with just being alone with Christ, right?

28:15

Even if you are let's say a Christian who practices yoga. Do you need yoga to be at peace?

28:20

That's the question if you need yoga to be at peace then what's your relationship with Jesus like? You know,

28:26

I do I I do and then are you one that goes to well I need to go to a studio or I need to go do a practice with somebody else

28:36

Which becomes a community and in is that then You know,

28:42

I'm just working out because it's in a gym or it's here or there but you're still going to a place to gather together to do these

28:51

Postures these asanas that many of that many of them are worshiping

28:56

The the gods of Hindu. Yeah, so this is perfect and Some of you you're scanty visual

29:03

I pulled up this 12 basic postures of yoga. So I'm just going to go ahead and just Go through these and you can describe to the audience what you're looking at And then we might post some of this on our social media too.

29:15

And also when we have this video on live So if you look at this is a 12 basic postures of yoga. So the first one is the asana, right?

29:24

So people will know this pose It's where you're laying on your stomach and you reach out and you grab the back of your legs, right?

29:30

So people there are I've done that before there are health benefits you stretch your abs and it's good to get the blood flow

29:35

Flowing in it and it's good in the same way that you if you do like a handstand if you if you go up against The wall and you stand up you'll get a rush of blood to the head.

29:43

And so it does have physical benefits I've experienced that but Explain what what's the spirit?

29:50

I mean, we're talking about this is the originate This is this is originated worship practice of that originated in Hinduism.

29:56

So the asana move what's what's going on in this image here? well First I'll say that it's a picture of a woman

30:03

Lying on her belly and she's reached behind as Jim Jerry as you said and she has her feet so she's in a reverse wheel like a wheel

30:12

Okay, and if you notice her chest her front body She's completely open in the heart chakra

30:19

So a lot of the poses are working with the energy centers in the body the seven chakras

30:27

Y 'all know so any of that like I look at something like that and I go oh, well, she's opening the heart

30:34

She's she's trying to open that up versus keeping it closed. That's the that's the spiritual aspect versus the physical aspect

30:44

You're more vulnerable. You're you're opening your heart in a Hindu religion and You're opening that aspect of you

30:53

To and you're wide open to its submission. Yes completely complete submission complete submission.

31:00

Yes So in other words if we're gonna argue that this is inherently spiritual practice that just so happens to have stretching

31:06

What you're actually doing is that you would be really making yourself vulnerable And really exposing yourself open my heart to the teachings essentially of Hinduism.

31:17

Yes, you do You you open yourself up whether whether you as a student know it or not that's the training that goes behind every teacher the heavy into the philosophy and the

31:31

Hindu Aspect of that and I'd say health benefits don't negate spiritual consequences

31:36

Right like to to put it in this form, which may be kind of heavy to say But I'm just this is what I was thinking about was, you know

31:43

It may there may have been a health benefit to hold your baby walk up the golden stairs to the arms of Moloch as A workout and stick your baby on the hands of Moloch and watch them light on fire with your heart pumping your blood racing

31:55

Through your body there may be health benefits to that Exhilarating heart workout, but doesn't necessarily mean it's good for you spiritually.

32:02

Okay. No, no, it's good. It's a good point Yeah, he's completely right But it's a great way to market it, isn't it and to create something that'll pull the wool over the eyes

32:13

What is what did Satan the serpent say to Eve? Is that what God really said, you know, is that really gonna be bad you're not doing anything

32:23

It is a typical serpent This is good Go back to the stretch to the poses

32:29

This is what's making me think like in our culture because I'm we're speaking specifically about American culture right now and even maybe some other

32:36

Civilized Western societies that practice yoga, but we live in America. So We have grown up in a post

32:42

Christian country, right? So we have atheistic people quote -unquote, right? So I would say that people tend to find yoga

32:51

Because they first don't really necessarily believe in the spiritual consequences of it they believe mainly in the health benefits, but since someone starts going to it,

32:59

I'd say most people who end up new age or Something of that matter

33:05

Start off in an atheistic setting, right? So they're open to it They're they're they're gonna go there and then eventually since you're opening yourself up to this realm of influence

33:15

You're gonna become probably like a new ager, you know And I mean like that's the the majority of people in our society that are my age

33:22

That's what I see you go have personal conversations with people doing yoga. They're they're like kind of like, oh, whatever.

33:27

It's all relative I just kind of don't believe in any God in the first place and all of this stuff I mean, that's what that's what leads you into this kind of stuff

33:35

So the next pose yes, and you got to tell me how how is this I mean, I'm afraid to even

33:41

So the headstand. Yeah, sure sure sauce and sheer

33:46

Sassana, okay. Sure. So is the head he's in a headstand And his feet are above him.

33:53

So a headstand sure So when you look at that again, if you go back to the energies and the chakras now we have

34:03

What what what I was taught now you have the head below the heart now the heart is now more open and Clearing the mind and now again, you're in a very vulnerable position

34:19

But you're opening up all those chakras if I again, I'm just talking the spiritual aspect

34:25

Yeah, you know, well, it's good to explain that because it's we're arguing the point is that we're trying to be it

34:31

We're being objective, but we're also calling it for what it is And we're being objective through one the

34:37

Word of God and what does God say about practices? So again, we're looking at this through the light that this is originating from a practice of one comes from false deities

34:46

Which also you look at what does God say? You should have no other gods before me. This is

34:53

Opening and submission to God's that says do not do not put them before me. And so Yeah, yeah because you know,

35:02

I look at that pose where the gentleman is in a headstand. Well, whoa, whoa Let's go back and just take gymnastics.

35:08

Let's just let's take some things where where else would I see that? Well gymnastics, but The purpose when they do it in gymnastics, they've been doing gymnastics before, you know, this came over and was introduced

35:20

It's where do you do that? I I only see that in the yoga studios in a class and And Being in that space which is like being in a very little

35:35

Hindu place they've all you know You're you're more susceptible and open to that I don't

35:41

I wanted to kind of make a difference like are there health benefits to it? Absolutely, you know if you're a gymnast you do that all the time.

35:48

Would I do that? sometimes but Not anymore. I Not anymore

35:55

That's good, so next one you see is the shoulder stand and so again this is something that you would see where the arms are the person initially be laying on their back their arms are forward and And their body is posed all the way up and their legs are straight and pretty much sticking into the air vertically.

36:12

Yes, so spiritually People would people watch people do this physically Oh, let me just go ahead here and do this pose in the yoga class and getting this health benefits

36:21

But and you're seeing the pictures we're looking at are people who are practitioners from India that are doing this

36:26

So it's actually interesting that we look at it in this light. Yeah, so here spiritually in This in the shoulder stand

36:34

How what's what's going on here? I'm not as well versed in there's so many different Lineages of the yoga, you know

36:44

Kundalini being one as we write up part that up But by me looking at that and knowing the chakras and the right side of the body the the

36:52

Eden the Bengali are one is masculine one is feminine and trying to balance I see that the base of the the

37:01

Spinal column is now upright. So I go to okay that to me becomes

37:08

You're going to be you're gonna be working the whole spinal column Which is getting and moving the energy to try to inevitably wake up that Serpent Kundalini energy there.

37:21

That is not a Kundalini inner yoga pose that I'm aware of when I went to do it

37:27

Okay, excuse me Yeah, and so then you have The one called the plow plow pose

37:34

So basically it's the same poses previously and this person is as their arms forward, but their their legs are almost

37:42

Now horizontal adjacent to where their arms are so I'm trying to even describe it It was like a Z they look like a

37:48

Z right their arms from the ground their legs are Above their head look like a human Z. Yeah There's there, you know

37:57

Ashtanga when I would go if I were to go to an Ashtanga yoga class They'll do that quite frequently more towards the very end of the class if I remember

38:06

I could be wrong To now clear everything else again because you're getting ready the way that I had seen it was you were getting ready

38:15

It was the towards the end of a very physical class and after this you'd probably then end up in your corpse pose

38:22

Shavasana, so you're clearing and draining the energies in the spinal cord

38:28

And or opening them all up igniting them so that your crown chakra is wide open to you've got to consider that which

38:36

Yeah, and this is interesting too because and it says it talks about the health benefits

38:41

It says it relieves problems like indigestion and constipation as the abdominal organs are massaged in this pose

38:48

So again, yeah, there are there health benefits could someone really truly have What while doing these poses

38:55

I would say I could say from a physical standpoint. I mean your expert is also You know, there are lots of different aspects of physical well -being even outside of yoga

39:06

I mean, I would just say out the get -go sure on some level absolutely, but I guess the question we'd want to be is just because There's a byproduct doesn't mean the source from what you're practicing isn't it is good

39:19

I had that I agree that is very well said and this is what makes me think about to you like just because we're talking

39:24

About chakras and energies. It doesn't doesn't necessarily mean that those things are real Right.

39:30

So what I'm seeing with these people making these poses is I'm seeing people almost like Feeder fish to a demonic entity or spiritual energy.

39:39

So imagine being like a shark in in water We have Christians. Let's say they aren't practicing.

39:44

You know, there's walking around Let's say the shark doesn't necessarily see them in the waters, right? Well, we also have the Lord protecting us as well.

39:50

But let's say there's the people practicing yoga yoga in these waters, right? It's almost like bloods in the water for these spiritual entities

39:58

So they can see them and then they can actually give them experiences give them illusions. Give them these

40:04

Typically, that's what happens a lot experience something mystical now this experience now becomes the determining sole factor of truth for them in their world

40:11

Right, so it's not like just because they're doing these poses and things happen that chakras are now real that all these energies are real

40:19

It just means they're opening themselves up in a submissive pose to some spiritual energy or force that can now manipulate

40:24

Them and drive them further from the truth of Jesus Christ like that. That's what I see I see them as feeder fish in a pool.

40:30

Amen. Yeah. Yeah, that's what it looks like to me. I think you know you when you look at that that is a

40:37

This is a Matsyannasana fish pose. That's again. Oh, well

40:46

But would you not say that's a completely vulnerable position no, yeah, absolutely. I'm here

40:51

I'm open I'm right and I'm open right? Come on. Come that's what it looks to me. That's exactly right, right?

40:57

so, you know anything would have a physical benefit, but it's these things that you know,

41:04

That is an instructor you're trained to go. Okay. Well, there's these chakras and there's these mantras and there's these bondas

41:10

And there's these this and that and this and that and I'm gonna teach you all of them and that's what you're experiencing

41:16

You're right. Yeah Yeah, in fact what you'll see too and just just to define terms

41:22

Because again, we talked about chakra And so some people are just brand kind of brand new into this and the thing is too is that we're so inundated

41:29

I remember just hearing that I mean, I'll go to Whole Foods or or sprouts or any of those

41:35

Natural grocers in those areas and you just see a lot of just products that are good They just even like I love kombucha everyone.

41:43

Yeah, it's good and it's refreshing but all of a sudden I'm just sort of like Oh wait, this is that mean it has the

41:49

Lotus on it on one of the brands But then you have a brand called third eye chai. And so it's just it's inundated everywhere

41:55

And I every I feel like the last couple times I've been into one of those natural food stores

42:01

I've saw I've seen something in relation to chakras, right? So just real quickly for anyone who's new to explain that because we're did this is definitely connected to the practice of yoga

42:11

But just give them a basic understanding of what that is To the best that I can the energy centers are

42:20

Wheels of energy in our body each in a different location and each with a different color starting at the base

42:28

There's seven you work your way up I don't completely know them. I want to say root chakra. You might have it in front of you

42:35

You got gonna go one two, three four Becomes the heart that's the center because we've got seven and then three

42:46

Yeah, yeah the third eye and the seventh chakra. So I fascinating the center part is heart

42:52

I Didn't get them all in a row. It's not a crown chakra third eye. Yeah the throat chakra heart chakra

43:00

Valley -down root is the base, right? so in other words I mean the chakras are the idea is to get aligned to get them aligned in order to Gonna go a lot of times people even like in health even go ahead.

43:12

No. No, no, you're right aligned What what they'll probably generally say is oh, let me feel you.

43:18

Oh you you know what your root chakra? Oh, you've had a lot of trauma and you know your root chakra

43:24

I don't feel anything there or your aura is a different color and you know, you could get into all that again

43:29

Which is in Deuteronomy 18, right? We don't do that, but it's about the in the aspect of the asana practice, it's supposed to Pull it all and I'll just use the word kind of Open up the centers that the energy centers that might be blocked so you can get the flow

43:52

Again all the way down Yeah to the base and up Okay, there's a reason why you want all those energy quote -unquote energy centers open

44:01

Mmm, you want to be able to read release that energy the serpent energy. I'll keep saying it

44:07

Yeah, I mean it's no coincidence. I mean and just but honestly I mean just the fact that The serpent is the one who says you shall be like God's knowing good and evil is literally the serpent who told

44:18

Eve that from A biblical standpoint and then here you're trying to get really old get yourself aligned and align your body with the sir with with Well, you think?

44:31

Yeah, well, you know, they don't that's kind of like that's the physical aspect of it. It's more, you know, this is opening myself up to yoking in the

44:40

Union with myself my my higher self and the one that that's the purpose of Trying to open up all those energy centers make sense to make a connection to make a connection with You know myself my inner self the one and then the

45:00

God Brachman. Yeah Yeah, and each And what you'll see too because I mean we could go over a lots of these and because we're kind of seeing a pattern here where you look at whether it's the

45:12

Cobra pose or the Locust pose Each one they it starts off in this description.

45:19

It talks about the health benefits But the very bottom part of it it talks about it always talks about What area not just the first off of the physical benefits, but then it talks about what chakra it helps out

45:33

Yeah, and every single one does and helps channels energy to the rest of the body so the whole idea is to be to channel this energy to eventually become one and Then you like I said, it's to align yourself with with Brahman which is what the origin what yoga actually means it means yoke and that's what the origin is from and so you see that whether it's locust and it

45:57

Talks about you know, it talks about again. It's helping out with certain aspects of Digestion it helps out with lower back pain.

46:04

But at the very bottom says the stimulation of this is the How do you know how to pronounce?

46:11

But it's just again It's it's gonna stimulates one of these one of these chakras that aligns energy in the body and every single one exactly does that Yes, and you're saying again, you're seeing that like so when you're looking at this

46:21

Andrew What like what do you what are you seeing here? Like just give me some more thoughts than this I feel like I see your head. Yeah, you know your head here

46:28

I just and I and I hate to well, actually I'd actually don't hate to say it But I I don't

46:33

I don't think chakras are real. I don't think energies are real I think it's demonic influence number one. I don't think experience determines truth

46:39

I think what God says is true. I think it shows people that are worshiping the creation instead of the Creator, right?

46:45

Jesus says he says it's not what goes into someone that defiles them but what comes out of somebody that that that is wicked right and these are outward expressions of poses where someone is lacking something in their life and they're looking somewhere else for that peace other than God and they're opening themselves up To this very very real realm that exists, right?

47:09

We're not just physical beings We're also spiritual beings Like I said it I think to us in a spiritual realm to evil entities

47:16

Like the devil he roams around like a roaring lion. They they brighten themselves up in that aspect

47:22

They are illuminated in that sense to where it's like attack mode go to them And it's and it's just very sad for me to see

47:29

I understand the health the health benefits But again, that doesn't that that doesn't outweigh the spiritual ramifications.

47:37

Like what is it to gain the world but to forfeit your soul? What if that gives you four more years to your life, but you're burning in hell for the rest of your life, you know and to add on to that if this was in India and You you were looking at all these they are not going to mention the physical benefits

47:56

That's the Western aspect right to glaze over. They're practicing this as part of their religion to me to get closer

48:04

Yeah, there's an ancient. There's an ancient saying it says there is no yoga without Hinduism and no

48:10

Hinduism without yoga straight up like Any any guru right who would be practicing yoga?

48:19

Coming to America would want to slap people in the face and be like wake up like that's not what it is you know, that's not what you're doing and we know that that's truth because That that's true because look at what is going on to people who are practicing this look at the fruits of what's coming from This type of culture in our society

48:37

We're not walking around with people that have actually externalized and have a real realization of themself we're walking around and seeing that the world has become more selfish a more degenerate a

48:48

Version of what the true self is our true self because we are created by God is defined by God yet We are fallen human beings and we're only selfish without God actually

48:58

Giving us and granting us the humility to repentance leading to faith in Jesus Christ and actually understanding what it means to have the self

49:06

Living in the way that God created us to live because if we're not living that way We're more likely selfish than we are actually knowing what it means to have in be

49:14

So like have self, you know or self awareness the devil does that he has terms and he describes things that make it sound so Eerily similar and so enticing to the truth, but it's the exact opposite.

49:26

This isn't mindfulness. This isn't self -awareness it's the exact opposite because if it's pulling you away from the

49:32

Word of God if it's pulling you away from a Relationship with Jesus Christ to make you find your peace somewhere else

49:39

No, it's it's not self -awareness. It's self debasement and it's a counterfeit spirituality and It's leading you to be in union yoked with another entity

49:53

Right and one that has no power over the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ You sits at the right hand of the

49:58

Father controlling all things if you'd rather have that Then peace with God through Jesus Christ It kind of shows something and it makes me worried for people and really does

50:09

It's just such a popular thing nowadays, and I just don't I just don't understand how it is. It is very popular Yeah, go ahead

50:16

Jerry. Um, no, I'm just trying to find this one comment. It was just We did every single time we'd make a post about yoga, whatever it is.

50:25

It's one of those like hot hot topics And but it was just one thing to kind of do because again,

50:31

I'm not the I'm by no means the expert here And again, I'm going on just a couple hours of sleep. So I probably mispronounced every anything anything that's

50:39

Anything that's like that's pronounced in a way that's from like India or anything like that I'm just gonna like butcher it.

50:45

So I'm trying to avoid that but you know, it's just it's just definitely interesting and like one thing that it's very telling is one of the

50:52

Comments that I saw and I was trying to find it But basically and again, I don't know if this comment is indicative of the of the entirety of the nation of India But it was very intriguing

51:03

It was actually a comment from a Christian Who's in India who came to Christ and basically said is that every single person?

51:10

Well, at least within their sphere of influence who becomes a Christian in India No one even thinks about practicing yoga because they know what it is

51:20

That's what we all every Christian and every Christian who's in India knows what it is And so they don't do it.

51:27

But somehow over here it gets westernized and it gets okay, and we can go ahead and Dabble it dabble it which you might even talk into the next episode

51:35

We might talk a little bit about whether or not Christians can practice yoga or it can be Christian eyes and you're like Well, I know my belief there's no way yeah,

51:46

I won't yeah, and so I think we can kind of really do that and you're gonna I'm it's interesting too because I mean

51:52

I When I've talked with people like Stephen ban cars has been on her show or Doreen virtue or anyone who's kind of been in that Experience like they're they're kind of on the other edge of the looking -glass when it comes to they have experience of going into those realms of What God says don't go there because it's not it's spiritually dangerous and I come from the realm of just saying

52:16

Oh, well, God told me not to do it. Therefore. I haven't I haven't crossed there I saw the no trespassing sign

52:21

I haven't crossed over but I have stories of people who've gone over and every single time when people talk that's

52:28

They have that perspective of just don't don't go there. Yeah So so yeah,

52:35

I think what we did I think we had like we've had somewhat of a good foundation again what we're trying to do here is at least lay the case that in your experience that That this is inherently the yoga is inherently.

52:47

It's a spiritual practice that just so happens to have a physical component I think that's what we're getting out of the conversation.

52:53

I'm just curious about You're talking about when you left the yoga eventually you left the yoga industry and you can you

53:02

I Appreciate just your sincerity in the heart in which you expressed You know, especially the softness of your heart, which is you know, that's like a cool thing about genuine repentance.

53:11

It's genuine brokenness over sin But like what what made you like leave as a whole was it connected that or did you come to that realization afterwards?

53:22

Is what I had you end up leaving the industry I I had been I had found a church that a

53:30

Christian Church Non -denominational that I I liked and I I really enjoyed it.

53:36

It was taking me along a great path And I got baptized at it,

53:42

October 15th 2015 And I think from that point

53:49

Again I Different Bibles, but I was beginning to learn and something inside and I have to say

53:55

I think from that point on the Holy Spirit started to do a work because I'd go into a studio that I'd be teaching at and There would be

54:04

Buddha heads and a Ganesha and a Shiva and a Shakti and I'm like, oh that I don't like like Ooh, they're just this almost like it's palpable.

54:14

Now. I can feel that I can feel that this is not a good energy This is this is evil.

54:20

So I I just started really more Going and researching it and you know as a

54:30

Christian and going No, and I remember reading Deuteronomy, but at that point

54:36

I was like, yeah, no, but God had his work I mean he was going to keep after it and I there was just the point where I thought

54:41

I'm I'm not even gonna go in The studio anymore. I just don't a lot of the students

54:47

Or people who come I'll call them students because they are Literally in the yoga in the tradition and yoga you become a student of the guru who you are

54:58

Studying under or if you go to here in America you become that student meaning you're open teach me how to do it

55:04

Tell me what to do. Tell me what it's about. What's it supposed to open? I Felt so many of them coming to me

55:10

I feel so good and and they almost start to give you their power and I am just like That is not no and that part just scared me and I'm like something's not right

55:22

I don't know what it is upon seeing all the other There are the there are the popular instructors, you know, you could go through the

55:30

Shiva ray She's got her whole groups and you know You could go down the line with the very well -known ones and within each city that you're in There are those that are you have followers and when

55:42

I mean follows you have followers So, yeah, yeah, so I just I just said that's it. I can't do it anymore and God kept working on me

55:49

Yeah Well, it's interesting to just because you know as we wrap things up here is that I remember reading

55:56

Stephen Bancar's his book second coming the New Age and That was a point where that I'm almost paraphrasing we said in the book that it's inherently a spiritual practice it just so happens to have a physical component and I remember

56:08

I was I was reading that and This is a while back when it came out and It's almost like around the time when cultish came out that I came in a conviction that like I wasn't really practicing yoga

56:20

I just done it previously and it justified it And so but I just had the opinion of like, okay

56:26

It's kind of like one of those is it caught if it causes you to stumble sort of thing You know if it just sort of like the week if it's for the weaker brother

56:33

Maybe someone had a background in the New Age. They shouldn't do it But other people can do it like that was honestly my perspective and So, you know if you look at even the arguments that when

56:42

I the website we were going to kind of analyze You know them practicing. Oh, I would have been totally in that camp

56:50

I think where I came in a conviction is that I saw I was doing research for something completely unrelated to yoga but just about the

56:57

New Age in general one of her episodes in the occult and I saw people that I was like I was following on it on social media because I was getting related ads because that's just funny

57:05

How you know you get cookies in there you start getting related ads and I just started following These different New Age gurus and they were into different occultic practices and then

57:16

I saw them Practicing yoga and it was almost like I had this epiphany and I had the sort of this

57:23

Mindset. I just saw I was like, whoa. Whoa. I saw what they were doing and I knew

57:31

It's like all of a sudden it clicked like they're not stretching and I was like I can never I can't ever do yoga again

57:38

Yes, so that's just yeah, that's one of those things. So anyways, we'll go ahead

57:43

Are we gonna well if you know There was there's a couple more things that I wanted to do if we're not gonna do another episode.

57:50

I'll leave it if we are We're gonna do another episode All right, let's do this

57:57

Let's go ahead and wrap things up for right now for part one and then we'll continue over in part two so thank you all for listening and Hope you all are doing well out in the strange

58:09

Covidia 2020 world Thank you all for listening. If you like this episode leave a risk or review on iTunes

58:16

Let us know what you thought as always this program cannot continue without your support So as I say at the beginning of the episode if you want to allow the cult to show to continue

58:25

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58:34

You can donate one time or monthly So all that being said, thank you all for hanging out with us here

58:39

And we'll talk to you in part two of this discussion on the whole world of yoga.