Open Q&A

Opening Welcome and How to Join the Live Q&A

Welcome to Apologetics Live. We're here to answer your questions and challenges about God and the Bible. Meet your hosts from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rappaport, Dr. Anthony Silvestro, and Pastor Justin Pierce.

Well, we are live. Wait, what are you doing next to me? This is, uh, I am finally in his digs. It's real. He's here. These are real books, too. This isn't just a.

Fake thing. That's right. Well, welcome to Apologetics Live. We are here to answer.

Your challenging questions. Anything you have about God and the Bible, we can answer. That's what we do here. We're here to answer those questions. So anything you have, go to ApologeticsLive .com. Join there.

What you do is go down to the bottom. You'll see underneath there's a little button or icon for the duck. That's the StreamYard icon. Just go there to join in the discussion. Those who watch on YouTube and Facebook, you guys, and Twitter can leave comments there, and we would be able to see that, I hope, as well.

I'm not sure if we see Twitter. That's a good question. Someone watching on Twitter, let us know. Put a tweet out. We do have a super chat already. So on YouTube, you can pay to get us to make sure we're going to answer your question.

What it is, if you give us a super chat, that highlights it, and we get to see that. Someone did. Brad did one before we even went live. So we'll make sure we get to that. So I'll just mark that one. It's a good question, too.

News Commentary on Illegal Immigration and Sanctuary Cities

All right. Well, so before we get started, I'm here in the Silvestro digs. So this is the first time, actually, I think we're doing Apologetics Live together in your place. We're here. That's right. Yeah, we've done a couple of mine.

But we got some stuff in the news in the news segment just to get get Anthony triggered a little bit more. It's always fun to do the in the news segment because it gets him triggered. But yeah, he already knows this one.

So I found it interesting. We've been seeing ever since Barack Obama, this idea of letting illegal aliens into the country. And what they would do is take them as they come across the border and ship them to all the red states and just drop them off.

And states would sue. And the argument was that the states didn't need to know that these illegal aliens are being dropped off in their state. So some of these states decided some specifically Florida and Texas, that they were going to, well, send the illegals to the states that have set themselves up as sanctuary states.

That kind of makes sense, doesn't it? I mean, if there are sanctuary city or sanctuary state for illegal aliens, doesn't that mean they they want them and they're set up for them? They want them. They're going to.

Take care of them. They're they're open arms. Welcoming is what they say. Yeah.

And they should have the resources. Yeah, they should. Except New York is quite upset because six thousand. That's right. Six thousand illegal immigrants were dropped off in New York. Almost ten thousand nine nine thousand six hundred were dropped off in D .C. and the mayor's there is very unhappy.

Gary Galvin Newsom there in California says that this is cruel, that that what the Republican governors are doing in in playing with people's lives and and, you know, that this is inhumane. So some of the liberals called the governor Abbott and Governor DeSantis Nazis for doing what for busing and flying the illegals into the states that said they want them.

I'm quite confused with this, if they are a sanctuary city, sanctuary state and they want the illegals, why are they upset when they're only getting a fraction and they're getting six to nine thousand compared to the border states that are getting millions, millions?

That's right. But you must admit it's kind of funny that they dropped them off at Martha's Vineyard. That was which is where the liberals typically go. The ones that have a lot of money that usually are the ones spouting off about wanting to be sanctuary cities and wanting illegals come to the country that now they're the ones upset that their town is being overrun by illegals.

Well, I find.

It ironic and hysterical. Well, and it's very interesting what what is happening because of Martha's Vineyard, the home of Barack Obama, the home of, you know, other famous people like, you know, Oprah Winfrey.

I think the Clintons may even have a place there, but they're very upset. So what are they doing? Well, Joe Biden's actually using covid arguments saying that there's a state of emergency and they're going to ship the illegals out of Martha's Vineyard back to Mexico.

Huh. If you drop off the illegals in sanctuary cities, they're they're welcome until they show up is I guess what it is. They might as well say we're a sanctuary city. Illegals are welcome as long as they don't come here.

Yeah. Because if.

They do, we're going to ship them back to Mexico. It's pretty typical liberal.

Logic. So well, liberal and logic don't go too well together. Yeah, I know. So last night, last night, you and I got together with your brother, your brother Vito. Yeah. And he is he's not a Christian.

And yet, as I talked with him, he came up with one of the best arguments I've heard against abortion.

And now I have to say, first, I have two younger brothers. They both are not Christians. But something happens five or six years ago, right after I right after my book came out. And and my one brother called me and it's like, you know, I'm having a real, real struggle with with this evolution stuff because I know you teach against it.

He goes, it doesn't make any sense. Like when you start looking at it doesn't make any sense. Which brother was that? That was Vito. That was Vito. OK. And then Dominic shortly thereafter said it. And so I gave him each copy of my book.

They they read through it and doing a lot more research. And they're they've always been conservative fiscally, just, you know, nothing else and certainly not been Christians. So it was interesting watching.

It's been interesting watching them over the years. I feel like God's drawing them still not to repentance yet. But but I think their eyes are being open more and more. So I wanted that as a background before you get into this.

So he and I were talking about the issue of abortion. And he made a comment, he goes, I don't believe abortion is a pro choice issue. Now, think about this. You're speaking to someone, you know, is not a believer.

And he says that and you really don't know his position. It's the first time I ever met him. Not quite sure where he's going with it. And he turns and says this. It's really an issue of irresponsibility.

It's not a pro choice issue. It's a pro irresponsibility issue. It's he said the issue is they don't want to take responsibility for their actions. And I thought that was brilliant. And I told him I'm stealing it.

Yeah, because it really was a great way of explaining what the abortion issue really is. It's not about choice. It's about having sex without consequences. And many people would say, but really reframing it when they want to say they're pro choice just by saying, well, no, you're actually pro irresponsibility.

And let them think about that, because that's really the at the heart of the issue for them. So, yeah. All right. So we got some questions that came in. You may bring the first one up because, yeah, it looked like you.

Were going to. Well, we should do the super chat one first. Yeah, we should do.

A super chat one first. So here's Brad George. If you want to give a super chat, we would be happy to have that. That goes to striving for eternity. And that that basically will pop up on our screen with this bright color.

So we see it gives us even a countdown timer, but it helps to donate to the ministry. And so you just do you do that on YouTube to do that and just click the dollar sign. So Brad George says this. I'm going to read this and let you give the answer because I think you're more researched on this since I haven't read what Chuck wrote.

Hey, brothers, wanted to get your thoughts on Doug Wilson. I believe you have seen Chuck O 'Neill's post about DW being a false teacher and someone to avoid is DW someone to be avoided. Hmm. So I'm going to let you because I actually didn't see Chuck's post.

Yeah, I have my own thoughts, but. Yeah, I.

Have and. And I think Chuck makes some really, really good points, so let me.

Say give an overview of what Chuck's post was, if you could not read the whole.

Thing, but well, yeah, the two main points that Chuck brings up and fairly so one is is he's he uses very harsh language to women. OK, and not necessarily Christian women and just women and women in general.

So that's that's one one big issue. The other one is his seeming love affinity for Roman Catholicism. And some of the what we would call Roman Catholic apologists of yesteryear, GK Chesterton and and others.

So those are the main areas of focus and why Chuck has and Chuck is a is a good friend of ours, friend of the show. And.

I will say that Chuck is has a history of documenting what he says. He doesn't.

Just. Yeah, off things. Yeah. And if you don't if you don't believe that, see the amount of hours of work he did on the whole Mike Reed Tony Miano situation back in the day that allowed me a good jumpstart into all the research I ended up doing after that.

So so when it when it comes to when it comes to Chuck, he is he is a precise type of guy and he does his research very well. So I do trust all those things. And he did provide several resources here in in these Facebook posts.

Having said all that, one thing that I have seen with Doug Wilson, he kind of flashed on the scene a few years ago. And it really the big splashes at G3 three, four years ago now. Well, OK, so that was a big splash.

Into Baptist circles, into Baptist circles. He's been in Presbyterian circles with what was known as federal vision. Correct. And from what my understanding is, federal vision has been deemed heresy in every Presbyterian denomination.

He has he he was actually on Chris Arnzen show saying that he doesn't use the labeled federal vision anymore. And Chris asked him, what do you disagree with within federal vision? And he didn't have anything.

So I think what that's I can't be sure, but it sounds it sounded to me when I listened to that show that he doesn't like the label federal vision because it's got a bad nomenclature. But he he doesn't disagree with any of the teachings.

Yeah.

That's that. And that would be, I think, a fair synopsis. So here's here's my biggest issue. Yeah. So Drew Vanita is saying Doug has distanced himself from federal vision about in the last year. Yeah, he's done that for several years.

Well, the label, the label, the label, not necessarily the teachings, which which causes me if you there's several reasons that someone might disavow the label. Right. I don't typically, as you know, I don't typically hold to the label Calvinist unless I'm speaking to someone that has the same definition as I do.

Right. Because that term has so much, you know, so many different people have different ideas of what that means. There's so many people have false views of it that I don't just agree because I don't know what they mean by it.

But it seemed like he was disavowing the label because it's deemed heresy or or isn't viewed well. Well, if it's not viewed well because of the teaching and you haven't given up the teaching. Whether whether you have the label or not, it matters what you teach.

So if the Presbyterians are saying this is what what they deem heresy or problematic teaching and you still teach that, whether you go with the label federal vision or not, I think you're still in.

The same boat. Yeah, that's right. But but Chuck focused on a couple different things. And I'm going to touch on the Roman Catholicism thing first. So as a as somebody who grew up Roman Catholic, I I am very, very precise about understanding and teaching what justification is versus sanctification.

The Roman Catholic Church is very imprecise, you know, mixing those things up. And that's why and purpose. Right. And that's why if Catholics all across the board in terms of what they believe, what they think they believe, they're not sure what the church officially teaches and believes.

But having said all that, it's it's very easy for us to sit here and say, according to Galatians, any other gospel is you are accursed, right? If you believe in another gospel and that the gospel taught in Galatians and the rest of the Bible is one of faith alone.

The Catholic Church in their official Roman Catholic catechism, as you have chronicled in your book, what do they believe, as well as other areas, you have pointed out that they teach the opposite of that faith plus work, faith plus works.

Right. And so so we have a very clear cut difference between Christians and Catholics, which means that Catholics are not brothers and sisters in Christ, because it takes you being actually born again to become a child of God, to become a brother and sister.

Let's be more precise, right? It's it's they cannot believe in official Roman Catholic doctrine and be brothers and sisters in Christ. Right. I mean, you can have someone that attends a Catholic church and they're saved apart from the Catholic Church.

Yeah. But they would probably leave that as a believer. Yeah. But they can they can be saved and sitting there not knowing any better. But but they're going to do it not because of Roman Catholic doctrine, but in.

Spite of it. Well, that's right. But the danger we run into when we say something like this, right, is how is that any different than from Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses? You know, they I mean, yes, they have other parts of their beliefs that are wrong, too.

But what's to say somebody doesn't get saved in one of.

Those churches? So I really they can. I would say they can. But I think someone that's in dual with the Holy Spirit is going to come out of that. I don't see someone staying in the Mormon church, hearing that they could become God.

Right. And say, yeah, I'll stay here. Right. Which is why, like, if we're going.

To be careful in how we speak, it's when we say Roman Catholicism, it is very fair for us to assume that it is it's people who line up with the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, where we don't assume that they're ignorant.

We assume that they believe what the Catholics teach. So, OK, I say all this because I have very much benefited from Doug Wilson over the last several years, as much as I really enjoy engaging culture and social issues and have spent a lot of time with with making sure words are said just right.

We speak wordsmith. He's amazing at it. He's very good with his words. He's precise, does a great job explaining things as simply as possible. And so when you listen to Doug Wilson, this is what you expect to get.

The problem is, is when we when we see Doug Wilson and what he talks about with Roman Catholics, he's imprecise. And that's what's really troubling for me about it, is because you can you you can do all the wordsmithing you want and talk about, well, you know, one of the articles I had pulled up about Doug Wilson, and actually I just lost it now, but there's a different article I had up.

So he's quoted as talking about what you just said there, Andrew, in regards to, you know, somebody could be sitting in the Roman Catholic Church, not necessarily believe what the Roman Catholic official teaching or its official doctrine is, and they could be saved ignorantly within the church.

Okay, that's, I would agree with this. The problem is, is when you start mixing that in with Roman Catholicism in general, you're now starting to have some issues, right? And that's the problem I have, is that he is so precise everywhere.

Why is he not precise regarding faith alone and regarding Roman Catholicism? For me, it's troubling. There are times in the past that he has called.

Roman Catholics brothers and sisters. Not only called them, but you know, one of the things that I did see was he did a debate with James White on this issue. The topic of the debate was, are Roman Catholics our brothers and sisters in Christ?

So it wasn't just, has he said some things on this? He actually debated James White on this. Now those are two people that are very good with words, very precise. They do a lot of debates. They understand the rigor of debate.

They do get along, so that's always good for a debate, but the fact that he wanted to debate that topic, that was concerning, and I did watch that debate. It was a while ago, and hearing him try to argue in a debate that, you know, so what I'm trying to say is when you do a debate, it's not something you just have kind of offhanded.

You think through it, you plan on it, and he asked for that, from what I understand, that debate topic. So I will admit it's kind of confusing to me, James White, who has criticized Leighton Flowers and others for being Roman Catholic, they make arguments like that, and here he's debating someone who's arguing that Roman Catholics are our brothers and sisters in Christ.

I don't know if it's his friendship that keeps him from kind of calling him out, but that is, it was very troubling to me. Yeah, it's.

Weird. So having said that, I don't know that I'm willing to call Doug Wilson a heretic, but something is up. He must have friends that are Roman Catholic. I mean, there's something there as to why he's not being precise, because it is really not hard to be precise about Roman Catholics and.

Roman Catholic doctrine. You have to be precise when it comes to the message of the gospel. I mean, what defines conversion is a very important thing to be precise about. Yeah. Especially if you're in a debate, and when you're debating the issue, precision matters.

I mean, okay, granted, we've all seen, we've seen here on Apologetics Live, people that come in and do debates, and clearly they're not prepared, right? We wonder what were they thinking before they came in, but that's not Doug Wilson.

That's not James White. They're not guys that are going to rush into a debate without thinking through things. So that kind of tells me that there was, it's something he really is holding to, and yet I'm confused with why.

I don't get that, especially from a Presbyterian. It just confuses me. Yeah, that's right. You brought up a different issue, and it's his language, and I think that's even broader than just the way he speaks of women, because, and you said that's what Chuck brought up.

One of the things, I mean, there has been an accusation. Now, I don't know, I don't have enough details of this to know, but there was an accusation where someone, I guess, in his church, the accusation from a woman is that the husband raped her, and supposedly the claim was that, you know, that Doug made was that, you know, a wife, a husband can't rape his wife.

I disagree with that. I think that that can happen, you know, but that would be concerning if true. The other thing that is kind of concerning, and this is true in a broader sense, and I forget who someone above had mentioned it.

I think it was Drew that mentioned in the comments about the broader group that he hangs around with crude language, just always trying to push the envelope. I guess he wrote a book. Now, I haven't read the book, and I have friends that are on very opposite ends, and even though they're both good friends, one read the book and said it's fine.

The other won't read the book because he said it's pornography. I would have to read the book, but it's from what I understand has something to do with someone having sexual relations with a sex bot, which in one sense, depending how he's doing, he did it supposedly as a novel, and I think they're trying to make it into a movie.

I don't know if that's the issue. Like, I don't know if I'd want to be writing a novel and putting a movie out on that. However, I do think that as Christians, we need to be prepared to have that argument because before COVID, I had predicted, and I actually thought COVID would escalate it, but it changed it.

I thought that we would have to deal with the issue of the question of, is sex with a sex bot adultery? Because it's not with a human being. I had said to you back before COVID, we need to start having answers for people on this, and I do have an answer.

I mean, I still think, especially when they're making these sex bots supposedly look like people of someone's choice, then yes, you're lusting. I don't care if it's a robot. What if it's a dog? Is that lusting?

Yeah, no, it's just bestiality, which is coming. You may laugh, folks, but that is what the Bible tells us comes after the transgender stuff is bestiality, and they're starting to teach that in school as well.

So unfortunately. So I do think there's concerns with, like you're saying, the language, the pushing of the envelope and things like that.

Yeah. And, you know, Chris Hough wrote this, there's too much of a hold on cronality with that whole crew. And that was going to be the last point I brought up is that issue. Look, I don't care if a Christian goes out and has a drink in private with people who they are sure don't have an alcohol problem or a previous alcohol problem.

Like the Bible doesn't forbid drinking. We've talked about this before. It's it's about drunkenness. So so I'm not a legalist. I.

Have. It's about drunkenness, but there's also. Do not cause your brother to.

Stumble. That's right. That's the other part of it. And so that's the issue I.

Have is the flaunting of of this stuff, which they seem to do a lot of. They do a.

Lot of. Yeah. I mean, I jokingly called those those conferences Fight, Laugh, Feast that were going around the country. People asked me about I'm like, oh, the drinking conference, that one. And it was I mean, tongue in cheek, of course.

But, you know, but they I mean, I mean, it's not so tongue in cheek because it's.

Kegs and cigars on Friday night in a social hour. Yeah. Now I'm like, I wasn't saved when I was in college. And guess what? Fraternity night was on Friday and Saturday nights. A bunch of guys and girls hanging around.

Having kegs of beer with cigars. Yeah. Right. I mean, it people could walk into there and look no different than an actual fraternity, except the guys are all 20 years older.

So OK, so what do you think about someone that's planting a church in a drinking establishment with where they're preaching and all the bottles of alcohol.

Are behind them? I think it would be just like preaching in a strip club with all the women behind them. It's probably not so good. Probably not a good idea. We'll see if we get a response from that group.

So all right. I don't even know who's doing that. But if you're doing that, don't whoever is doing that, please don't do that. That is that is not wise whatsoever. You know, Andrew, maybe this is the time you should share.

You should share your story, because this is one that I use for people often when it comes to I have zero problem with somebody having a drink, zero problem with it. Right. And but again, I believe it needs to be in private with other Christians who are who don't have an issue with this and can sit down and enjoy one drink.

OK. Having said that, you have a story that happened regarding a refrigerator and a move. He's got me.

Nervous there for a bit, you know. For a bit there, I was going to stories.

There's something I don't know about. No, no. You know, the story about the pastor. And this is really important for everyone to listen to as an to understand why we have to be so guarded in terms of some of these issues.

Yeah.

So my first pastor, basically what happened was when he moved, I helped him move. We did it over a couple of weeks and we it was rushed. And so when we moved all of his his food from the refrigerator, we packed it into, you know, cartons, drove over and just shoved it in the back of the refrigerator.

And what we didn't realize was that when he bought the house, the people who he bought it from as a gesture left a bottle of champagne in the refrigerator for him. And it just got pushed to the back of the refrigerator.

And it stayed there for like two years, just in the back, out of sight, out of mind. And we were having a Bible study at the house. And one of the guys goes in the refrigerator to get some milk and he sees the bottle of champagne.

Well, shortly after that, the pastor called me up because he had to go down and pick that guy up from the police station. The guy was had gotten intoxicated and basically he was chasing a train naked.

I don't know why. But what happened was that he told the pastor and the pastor asked him, what were you doing? And he said, well, it's OK for you to drink. I figured it's OK for me. And the pastor was like, why did you think it's OK for me to drink?

I don't drink. And so I saw the alcohol in your refrigerator and my pastor didn't even know what he was like. What are you talking about? He actually went to his refrigerator, saw the bottle of champagne in the back.

He ended up realizing how much it could be a stumbling block for somebody. And he impressed upon me. He says we have to do everything we can to not cause others to stumble if we are trying not to. And if people are looking to stumble, they're going to stumble.

Did this pastor do anything wrong? No, it just he what he didn't even think about the fact that this was in the back of the refrigerator. What he did was he emptied that bottle in the sink. He put it in a brown paper bag.

He didn't even want it in his garbage can. He drove it to the dump so that he wouldn't cause a stumbling block to anybody. And it impressed upon me the importance that we have to be careful in how we behave and what we do both in public and private, that others might, you know, that we may not cause someone to stumble.

Yep, that's right. So I guess, you know, I haven't done a ton of research on Doug Wilson, right? I take him for what he is. I listened to. It's kind of like my.

Almost convinced you to be post mill, right? I think you're getting close.

You're getting the more the more people talk about on mill and post mill, and the more they try to justify their positions, the more foolish I realize those positions are. I mean, I'm just being honest.

It's it really if you read if you read Genesis at the same way that you read Revelation, the same way you Genesis and some of the books that go to end times, right? I mean, it's as you always say, it's about the hermeneutics.

If you're being honest with the text, you can't come to any other position. I don't know how I mean, unneeded. Did you hear that? It's just not it's just not an honest position. So I mean, look, I you can be saved and believe in those other things.

I'm just I'm just saying it's not an honest position. So having having said all that, we have a bunch of other stars right now. Just go to the start. Oh, that's right. Yeah, you're more fancy than I am.

It's nice. Okay, so this is a good one. Which one do you want? Well, let's go top down. Yeah. So para church ism is very evident in the in evangelism. Is it healthy for the church? My question, my suspicion what what this Facebook user means is that para church ism that para churches are the ones coming into churches that are that are running evangelism conferences.

And you've got a lot of ministries of people running around doing street evangelism. That's more what maybe some are churched and some are unchurched. Yeah, I mean, I.

Could see it being because there is a problem, I think, with people who do evangelism as part of a para church ministry, but don't go to church or if the church doesn't support their para church evangelism ministry, I got to go find a new church, you know, because I look, you and I do a lot of work with living waters.

This happens a lot with people who get into evangelism with living waters. And what ends up happening is they start to go off the churches and doing evangelism way of the master way. They're not a church.

I got to go find another church. And they put the para church organization above the church, which you and I both know the guys at living waters would be a gasp at that because they are very firmly about the local church.

And they spoke to that.

Even in this last ambassadors academy a few weeks ago that we were at, right? So and the pastor of Mark Spence and Emile's Wayne is Philip DeCourcy, who also spoke about the importance of local church.

Having said all that, I mean, let's also be honest, right? On one hand, you have para churches, our para church ministries that are, that are outside of the guise of a local church. And that can be problematic.

Certainly, you've got a lot of opener preachers and evangelists that are outside the guise of a local church. Some call that nomadism. Nomadism. Yep. Yep. But then we won't get into him tonight. I hope not anyway.

But on the other but on the other side of things, we also have what what one of our friends calls the great omission. What another one of our friends calls the great it's treated as the great suggestion.

Rather than churches doing what they're called to do, which is fulfill the Great Commission. And so look, you and I've talked about this in the past. If churches were doing all the functions they were supposed to do, according to the Bible, there would be no such thing as para church ministry, there.

Wouldn't be a need for much of the para church ministry of churches. I mean, yeah, we wouldn't even have seminaries. Yeah. And living orders made it clear they wish that there wasn't a need for living orders to do para church ministry because the whole church would be doing evangelism and training within the church to do evangelism.

Yep, that's right. And so the problem is, is that.

When you look at the when you look at different disciplines that should be happening within the local church walls, and that aren't happening, evangelism is probably the top of the list. And, and so that's the issue I have is, is on one hand, yeah, I wish every para church ministry was submitting to a local church.

On the other hand, a lot of local churches just don't care of a lot of these things. They just don't, they just do their own thing. They think they're doing good, even good churches that are preaching the word accurately every Sunday morning, are non existent in evangelism, discipleship, and in other areas that really are the main functions of the church.

Yeah. So, so, so that's, you know, I maybe we didn't really answer your question on that. But, but the issue I guess just to say is para church ministry is needed today because local churches aren't doing the job.

Correct. Having said all that, I do hope that that that's para church ministries have a pastor to answer to have a local church that they are part of, that they're at least gaining counsel and support from in some way,.

Not necessarily financially, but spiritually. Okay. So Kofi put a comment up here. Kofi is saying, Anthony, what do you really think about Amil and Postmill? Did I not answer that clearly? Yeah. Well, I mean, it seems that Drew is, Drew is saying, asking for Kofi and Chris not to encourage us, but I think it's because, you know, Drew, Drew just, you know, we're sorry.

We're sorry, Drew. I mean, you will be right in heaven. Don't worry. Yeah, that's, that's right.

Probably when you're caught up midair is when you're going to find out, but yeah.

Hey, you know, I meant to mention this at the beginning of the show. I don't know if he's, if he's watching, I haven't seen him comment yet, but this week, I think I told you, I got to, to meet with one of our listeners, had breakfast with Ethan.

Ethan Tanner is a regular here who folks, you guys who are regulars, you see him commenting. But what I didn't know, and I told him he should come in sometime and talk about, share about this, because we've seen him comment a lot of times, and he asks a lot of questions.

But what I didn't know is that he actually got saved through Apologetics Live. God used Apologetics Live to bring him to Christ. So he said that he, he was actually, came upon Apologetics Live because his brother was involved in a cult, and he was trying to learn more about it, apologetics, to get his brother out of the cult.

Wow. But he himself wasn't saved.

Oh, look at that. I'm here.

There you go. All right. So yeah, so he had, he had gotten, you know, wanted to study. And so good news is his brother is out of a cult. He's not in a cult. And so Ethan and I were able to get together, have breakfast, which was great.

He's a student over at Cedarville University, looking to be a missionary. And he, we had a great breakfast. And then he was, you know, it was kind of funny because you meet someone and, you know, it's like, I didn't know the history, like I knew some of the questions he asked and things, but I didn't know all the, like I had forgotten about the questions he asked about his brother until he said something.

Yeah. You know, and so it's just neat to see how, how God could use a couple of knuckleheads like us behind a camera in people's lives. So we're, we're just, we're really appreciative of, you know, of, of Ethan and, and whatnot and, you know, people who are watching.

That's why we do what we do. Right. So it's really cool. Just to follow up before my pastor does expository, but we don't have evangelism training. This is respect, whoever respecting.