December 14, 2023 Show with Jenn Nizza on “From Psychic to Saved”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 14th day of December, 2023.

It's been a long time since I've had my guest today on the program, and I'm so thrilled that she has returned for another interview.

Her name is Jennifer Nezza. She is a former occult practitioner and psychic medium who was delivered out of the darkness and into the light and saving arms of her sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King, Christ Jesus, who will be addressing the theme of her book, From Psychic to Saved.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Jennifer Nezza. Hey, Chris.

Thank you so much for inviting me back. It's always a pleasure to be with you. I am thrilled to have you on the show, and I'm immediately going to give our listeners our email address if they want to join the conversation with a question of their own.

It is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, such as someone very close to you is involved heavily into the occult, and you don't want to identify yourself at this point.

I understand that, and we will be more than happy to honor your request to remain anonymous.

But if it's a general question, please at least give us your first name, city, and state, and country of residence.

Well, Jennifer, we have a tradition on this program when our first -time guests give a summary of their salvation testimony, and even though you've already been on the show, it's been such a long time since you've been on.

In fact, you haven't been on since we were originally airing out of WNYG radio in Babylon, Long Island, so you have not been on since we relaunched the show in Pennsylvania.

I would love for you to give us a summary of your salvation testimony, which would include any kind of religious atmosphere in which you were raised, if any, and what kind of sovereign or providential circumstances our

Sovereign Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you. Sure, it'd be my pleasure to share that with you guys.

I was raised, actually, culturally Catholic, and what

I mean by that is the holidays were mainly about the food.

Over here on Long Island, New York, we would go to Queens, nanny and pop -ups, and we would have all the wonderful Italian feasts, and outside of that, there was not any participation in church.

I didn't know Jesus. I didn't even understand the quote -unquote sacraments that were kind of just like going through the motions.

Did you go to a Catholic school? I went to—no, I didn't go to a—I was in public school, but I went to a catechism, you know, religion class.

Yeah, I went to religious instruction and went through all the preparation to do penance, communion, and confirmation.

I had no idea what any of those things meant. When I was doing them,

I was just doing them. And the interesting thing is that at home, we were talking about the paranormal, talking about supernatural experiences, even in my own home.

I always say, Chris, we don't throw mom under the bus, but mom was in the environment with a psychic.

Her aunt was a psychic, and into a lot of those—which I would say is probably like Reiki—she believed she was healing people and things of that nature.

So mom grew up around it. Mom went to Catholic school. She grew up around this, and so in our home, we were talking about this stuff, you know, as if it was just regular stuff to talk about, you know, activity in the home, the lights going on and off, who had the

Ouija board, you know, story, this, that, and the other. And I ended up getting my first tarot card reading when

I was 13. Mom was a hairdresser, and this beauty supply that she would go to, the woman, a woman who worked there, she read tarot.

And you know, a very big thing in the new age, or if you're a reader, would be to do group readings, and you go to do parties and things of that nature.

And of course, it's not entertainment at all. And mom had her come over.

My mom had a little beauty parlor in the house, and she had her come over, and this woman was doing readings in my home, and we were allowed to participate, my sister and I.

They were short readings, like little 15 -minute private readings, which is par for the course, honestly, because then you hand out the business card, because, you know, the enemy will get you on the hook there, and you want to sign up for more.

And I had that first reading, and I was so intrigued by it. I couldn't understand what was happening.

How was she reporting information to me that was accurate, things that had already happened? So I wanted more.

I was that person. I wanted more of it. And that was when I started to pursue it.

My sister and I actually both started to pursue it. I think she got her first deck of tarot before I did.

And we started doing readings in our teens. We were doing readings.

We were doing readings daily, and it just doesn't stop there.

We were getting readings. You know, once we had—I always had, like, these little jobs, had my own money, would call and make appointments and get readings.

And it escalated from tarot to astrology, numerology, playing cards—all that is a technical term is cartomancy, where you're using cards for insight or supernatural information to receive it—psychics, clairvoyants, psychic mediums, all these readings, all the books.

And my sister, too. We both. We both were very intrigued by it. And, you know, even my family, we started doing group readings with some psychic mediums throughout the years.

So I really went down the rabbit hole of destruction. And as I was doing all of this,

I was receiving a lot of information, quote -unquote messages, if you will, kind of call it like being downloaded right into your own mind, but it's not your thoughts, information about perfect strangers.

And so I started reading friends, not only family. And as it went on for me,

I hate to say this, but went up to the next step of actually becoming a psychic medium.

And the reason why is because the more you go down that road, the more oppressed you're going to be.

And I certainly was, meaning I, you know, demons were manifesting and I was getting a lot of information.

And then I started getting information about people that were deceased. And I truly believed I was speaking to deceased people, getting information from deceased people.

And I was told by the New Age community that I had a gift, a gift from God, in fact.

And it was my responsibility to use that gift to help other people that were grieving, that wanted to connect with their loved ones.

And I went to this divination group or class, if you will, because there's nothing new under the sun,

Chris. These things are still going on today. There are spiritual centers all over the place, and they offer these classes, you know, whether it's tarot, divination, whatever.

I was in a group of people that were doing all different kinds of divination, crystal readings, auras, chakras.

And of course, there I was the psychic medium. And I came out of there with almost with business cards in my hand.

And I know that sounds, I mean, it is terrible. But I was taught that I was using energy and there had to be an exchange of energy because of course, everything in the

New Age is about, you know, energy and raising your vibration and frequency and everything. So the person needed to pay you for the reading.

It didn't have to be a lot of money, but they needed to pay you. It was an exchange of energy. And so I come out with the business cards and that was it.

I kept going. I kept going, doing readings. I was doing group readings.

And at this time, parallel to this, you know,

I would have happy moments in my life, but there was so much destruction too. There was so much destruction.

There was this oppression. Like I said, there was fear. I always felt these entities around me, but I didn't know that they were demons.

I had false tools of protection that again, in that New Age group, we were taught, you know, hey, if you burn enough white sage around yourself, you can protect yourself.

Notice how it always goes back to you with all this power, by the way. And you can imagine white light around yourself and that would help to protect you from evil spirits.

I wasn't like some of the New Agers where I didn't believe that there was something bad lurking around. I knew that there was something bad because I could tell.

And I saw ugly, bad, terrifying things. But like I said,

I wouldn't have called them demons. I didn't know what to call them. I didn't know Jesus. I knew the New Age Jesus, the one who is very subjective and lets you do whatever you want, basically.

And I really cared about these people, Chris. I really wanted to help people and that's how

I always say the enemy was preying on something that is so beautiful about the love and compassion that I had in my own life, in my own heart.

And I really, truly wanted to help others. And of course, I wasn't because there is no help, really, when you go to the dark side, when you're going to the occult, when you're going to divination, there is no true help, even though you may think that that's deception and it's temporary and it's false, just like the tools of protection

I was using. And I went on and I actually ended up leading my own divination class.

Classes, I should say. I taught law of attraction, which is manifesting.

I taught chakra balancing with pendulums. I was counseling, quote unquote, even teenagers who were having demonic experiences.

I even had a woman hire me once, which is, it's so heartbreaking looking back on this.

Her son was dying of cancer. He was 17 and he was afraid. Oh boy,

I get emotional when I talk about this. He was afraid to die. And they hired me, the psychic medium.

And it kills me because, boy, if only I knew the gospel, right? That would have been the message that boy needed to hear, not from a psychic medium.

So I was full on. But like I said, at the same time, I also was extremely oppressed and all of this led up to the end of my 36th year started when

I was 12. Because it started right before that tarot card reading. But at the end of my 36th year,

I came to a moment of near destruction, such horrific demonic oppression.

And I know now that the Holy Spirit was drawing me because I just cried out on the name of Jesus.

And I had such a peace come over me, just such an overwhelming peace. I had not heard the gospel, though.

I didn't know I was a sinner that needed to be saved. I just had this experience. So I was very what

I call spiritually vulnerable after that. The enemy didn't want to loosen his grip.

I ended up getting into some, you know, some books that were massive false teaching,

Betty Edie, Embracing the Light, you know, her NDE. And meanwhile, she also subscribes to reincarnation and doctrines of demons of the like.

And but I had no way of knowing that. I did stop doing psychic readings for a little while. So again,

I go back to saying the Holy Spirit was certainly present convicting me. I just didn't know who he who he is.

I didn't know why I didn't want to do readings anymore, but I didn't. Lo and behold, some months later,

I went back to what I knew. I went back to doing the readings and this.

So from the moment that I cried out to Jesus to now fast forward 10 months later back doing readings.

I had a friend come over for dinner and she was a friend. I met in the new age in divination group.

I used to read her family her friends in between the last time I had seen her.

She actually ended up getting saved and I had no idea about this. So she comes for dinner and we're just talking casually.

She starts talking about Jesus and church here on Long Island that she started attending and she invited me to go to this church and I said, no,

I completely declined her invitation and that was pretty interesting looking back, but a month later.

I woke up on a Sunday morning and I had this strong urge to go to church to go to that church that day.

I just knew I wanted to go and I did and I went to this church and this church was not a

Catholic Church. It was a Bible based church non -denominational. Thank you.

Yeah, and something I was not used to at all. It was, you know, people were standing.

They were worshiping their arms are up in the air. I'm like, what are these people doing and the words are, you know on the screens and it was all very beautiful a little overwhelming and they start singing

Jesus saved me and I'm singing with the group and once I started singing that lyric

I flashed back immediately to the moment. I cried out to Jesus Christ 10 months prior and it was like that confirmation.

It's me Jen. That was me, you know, I'm Jesus. I love you.

I saved you physically and eternally and I was so overwhelmed with joy.

I truly and fully believed in Jesus Christ that moment.

I was crying and I heard the gospel being preached. I was under the preaching of the word.

I recognized that I am a sinner that needed to be saved that there was nothing I could do on my own.

There was nothing at all. I could do there were no works that were going to get me to heaven. Heaven is a real place.

God is real. It's not the subjective thing that's made up in the New Age and and here it was and I was just this was, you know, amazing.

I felt this freedom this instantaneous freedom in Christ like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders and I go home and probably got a 15 minute ride go home from the church.

And the first thing I did was Google search. Yes, I googled I did not have a

Bible on hand. I should mention I never cared about reading the Bible never looked to read the

Bible. I didn't debunk the Bible. I didn't care if you read it, but I had no interest in it.

So I didn't have a Bible available. But so I Google searched what does the Bible say about psychic mediums and honestly, this wasn't something

I was, you know, I that I went into this deep, you know contemplated, you know mindset about in the 15 minute ride home.

I really believe the Holy Spirit led me there because how on earth was I going to continue to be a psychic and a follower of Christ was never going to happen.

And I looked up these verses and I said, oh my heavens, you know,

God is God is so clear about this. God says Deuteronomy 18 10 to 12.

He lists medium spiritists. Don't interpret omens.

Don't see fortune tellers the people there were doing that Moses was leading them into the promised land. Of course. I didn't understand that then but and and here are the instructions don't do what they're doing.

Don't do these things the God finds it to be an abomination and the person who's doing it.

And that's all I knew Chris that day. I said, okay, he says not to do it.

He just saved my life. I'm not going to do it. So I quit my job. I made a conscious decision to turn away from what

I had been doing after it was revealed to me and I made an appointment with the pastor the senior pastor of the church for later that week and I met with him and and spoke with him and told him what

I had been doing as a job and what I had been doing all those years and he was so kind to me spoke truth to me and I started attending church and that was 10 years ago.

Hallelujah, and and I'm very I'm very thrilled to know that now you are a member of my former church or should

I say the church where I was formerly a member as my friend Bill Shishko always gently rebukes me when

I use the phrase my church. He will say it's not your church Chris.

It's Jesus's Church, but the former church where I was a member Grace Reform Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York, and I please extend my warm greetings and love in Christ to everyone there, especially

Pastor Doug Pastor Bob. I have not yet met face -to -face the new pastor

Daniel Mercado, but I hope to meet him sometime and interview him and I know the pastoral intern there

Brandon Federicks. In fact, I knew his mom before he was born and his mom used to be a member of a church that my brother attended and was a member of many years ago back in the 80s and I of course know

Doug's sons who are deacons there now Stephen and Dan. I knew them since they were little tiny kids and glad Chris Schaaf is a deacon there now and I see a couple of men on the the deaconate board who

I am not familiar with but but there are a bunch of folks over there that I know and love and remember and please extend as I said my warm greetings and love in Christ to them.

I will Chris I will it's a it's a phenomenal church and it's an amazing church family one that has been so supportive godly pastors sound teaching biblically sound teaching and you know my other church that I had you know been where I was saved and baptized in also a great church not doesn't line up with my theology though the

Lord really move me to reform theology and so you know

I'm so happy I'm home this is my church home so I'd be thrilled to extend your greetings great and actually

I will be seeing those folks in March of 2024 because I am going to be once again the

MC for their fundraising gala to raise funds for grace

Christian Academy the classical Christian school they operate so I'm looking forward to that as well.

Yay. Yeah, man, it was great to see you at the

G3 conference as well recently. Three was great. Yep. Well, we have to go to our first commercial break and when we get back to our interview, we're going to be delving deeper into the actual tenets of the occult that involve psychic mediums and so forth trying to get to what is commonly actually believed taught and practiced by people in that realm and other things and of course, we'll be taking listener questions at chrisarnsen at gmail .com

and remember to give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence.

If you live outside of the USA, don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with more of ex -psychic

Jennifer Nizza. I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church a

Christ -centered gospel -driven Church looking to spread the gospel in the southwest portion of Long Island, New York and play our role in fulfilling the

Great Commission supporting and sending for the spread of the gospel to the ends of the earth. We're delighted to be a part of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio advertising family at Lindbrook Baptist Church.

We believe the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired word of God inerrant in the original writings complete as the revelation of God's will for salvation and the supreme and final authority in all matters to which they speak.

We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God was purchased by Christ on the cross and is received through faith alone apart from any human merit works or ritual salvation in Christ also results in righteous living good works and appropriate respect and concern to all who bear

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Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit Lindbrookbaptist .org.

That's lynbrookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace, you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves is the gift of God, not a result of words so that no one may boast of the

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That's royaldiadem .com. We're now back with Jennifer Nizza, who is an ex -psychic who has been saved by the blood of Christ and is now a member of a

Reformed Baptist Church in New York, Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island. And we are discussing her book,

From Psychic to Saved. If you have any questions, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And before I go to any questions, I just wanted to have you clarify some things. Before you even became a psychic yourself and you were experiencing psychics giving you information that you believe only someone communicating with some other spiritual supernatural entity would be able to know, how clear was that to you?

Was it vague enough where it could have been the product of, as they call them, parlor tricks, or at least they used to call them that?

And as you likely know, especially since you've been in the business of being a psychic medium yourself,

I don't know what the percentage is, but it must be flooded with charlatans as well as people who are actually having real supernatural experiences.

So even when you reflect upon it now, as opposed to when you were first hearing these things, how certain are you that this information you were receiving from the psychic mediums was genuine information that they were receiving from the dark side?

I'm glad you brought that up, Chris, because I think it's important to state, and I'm going to answer your question, but it's important to state that divination is real and that's something that people really need to know because the

Hucksters and the charlatans, you know, play it off like this is just a scam and it's all bogus, and I would say that's the minority of quote -unquote readers.

Oh, you think that's the minority, the charlatans? I really do. I do. I really do.

You know, you can spot them from a mile away, they're going to crack an egg over your head, their palm—I always have this little

I go to say psalm because now you can see 10 years walking with Christ— palm readers with the same spiel that they give.

There's about, I don't know, one on every half block, especially in Queens, Manhattan, they're popping up all over the place, but there's kind of that routine way of doing things, cold readings, even the mediums that you see that are, you know, the

Long Island medium and everything, we're really connecting. She's really connecting, but people will accuse her of being a fake and a phony, and there are some things with doing stage readings which are a little bit different, but just going back to your question really quickly, the first reading that I had,

I was convinced that it was completely a spiritual experience.

I just didn't understand it because the information given to me in that small reading was absolutely accurate.

I don't like using the word truthful because demons don't speak in truth, but it was accurate.

It was things that had happened that were visible to these creatures, to these entities, these spirits, demons are around, and whatever they've seen, they can report accurately, and it was specific enough.

It wouldn't have been generic. You know, I mean, for example, my best friend at the time—and

I was a kid, I was 13—best friend at the time just had come from a big trip to Ireland with her family, and she brought me this beautiful ring back.

And, okay, you're 13, you know, Charlton would have said, okay, you have a best friend, and they gave you a gift.

That would have been something very generic and something I think a Charlton would have said, but this woman was very specific, you know, where she went, the time frame she went, the specific piece of jewelry she brought, so on and so forth.

And I was convinced of that. Now, throughout the years of getting the readings, like I say,

I would say just say two out of every ten I would have said would have maybe been a Charlton.

I don't know, maybe even one. And they were easy to spot. They were very easy to spot.

But the majority were real readers who were really communicating with demonic spirits masquerading as either departed loved ones or some sort of helper.

I call spirit guides. We all had a spirit guide. Spirit guides are, in my opinion, the counterfeit

Holy Spirit. It's this demon masquerading as somebody who's going to help you, give you wisdom, give you insight, provide quote -unquote truth.

And, of course, a spirit guide is none of those things, nothing more than a demon masquerading.

But most of the readings that I had were really, you could tell, not from Charlatans.

But the spirits themselves were Charlatans, because very often you are being told that a medium is hearing from a deceased loved one.

That is not really happening. It's a demon or something that's masquerading as a loved one, a deceased loved one.

Am I correct in that? That's absolutely right, known as a familiar spirit, a .k

.a. demon. But the medium, the medium themselves, isn't trying to trick you. They really believe that they're speaking to grandma, grandpa, whoever.

But you're absolutely right. The demons or the Charlatans, absolutely, a hundred percent.

And for the sake of my fellow theologically reformed listeners, who tend to be very skeptical about anything outside of Christianity that involves the supernatural, that might put all of this under the umbrella of charlatanry and hucksterism and fakery, a hero to most, if not all,

Reformed Baptists, A .W. Pink, Arthur Pink. He was a great

Christian evangelist and author, from the Reformed Baptist perspective, from the early to mid 20th century.

He went home to be with the Lord in the 1950s. But before he was saved, he joined the

Theosophical Society, which is an occult Gnostic group in England.

And he rose to prominence within its ranks. And when he got saved, and would later reflect upon those days when he was involved in the occult, he was still, as a

Christian, convinced that they were not parlor tricks that he was witnessing, that they were genuine supernatural manifestations and occurrences that he had witnessed and had been involved in, just not of the good kind, not from God, but from Satan.

So I just wanted to let our listeners know, they may be totally ignorant of that fact that Pink was involved in the occult before his salvation.

And if you get his biography from Banner of Truth, you will learn that and much, much more about A .W.

Pink. I think it may have been Ian Murray who wrote that for Banner of Truth, but I can't remember right now, but I'll let you know perhaps later on in the show.

So now, moving forward to you believing that you had received this gift, so -called, and you were just reflecting earlier on when you were giving your testimony about demonic manifestations, what exactly does that mean?

I mean, did you actually see demons, or did you hear their voices? What was going on?

Yes, yes. What did a demon look and sound like?

So they manifested in different ways, different forms. Before me, I saw ones that looked like, so a familiar spirit looks like a human being.

People call them ghosts. It's not a ghost, of course. There's no real deceased person being brought before you.

It's a demon masquerading as a human being, and really shocking when you don't expect to see that.

I remember sitting at my kitchen table, my head was down on my arms, and I kind of just like looked up casually.

I picked my head up and looked to the left, which was the hallway. And at the end of the hallway was the room that I slept in.

And I looked up and I looked to my left, and standing in the doorway was this demon that looked like a man, a tall, lean man, looked dressed like a professor.

But you know those jackets with the, a man's jacket with those, what were they, like patches on the elbow?

Yes. It was called a, yeah, you know, like a corduroy jacket with that patch. I even probably still have one in my closet.

Oh, do you? Probably, although I've never been a professor before. Well, so we, okay, so we're safe with you.

Yeah, and I was shocked. I mean, I almost fell off the chair, and it was just such a cold, dead stare.

So this is not three -dimensional like we are, right? You can see we have matter and substance to us.

It's more of this, oh gosh, how do you describe it? Not foggy, but oh boy, type of, not see -through, not foggy.

You see it, but just not substance like we are. Right, right. Yeah, and, and just...

Translucent. I like that. Let's go with that. Translucent.

And, and that was something I noticed. That was a pattern. Whenever I saw a familiar spirit, usually it had that dead look in the eye, pardon the pun there with the dead, but the, that cold stare.

I also saw animals, demons that would manifest as animals. So imagine now still with that translucence that we were just talking about, but they were like scary and dark -looking owls, scary -looking dog corpses, things like that.

And then I started getting touched by demons. I would be on the treadmill, and I could, and they started touching my hand.

And what did that feel like? That it actually felt like a person. Really? Yeah, it felt like, it felt like a person touching my hand.

I mean, to the point where you actually look down or you look... One time I, I thought that the cat was on my foot.

I felt the pressure, the warmth, the weight, and I looked down. There's no cat on my foot.

The cat's in the other room. I could see the cat. And, but that's what it feels like. And you know, even when you have, when you feel them sitting on your bed, or I'm talking like everybody gets this, they don't.

Thank, thank God. But it, it feels the real, real, you know, pressure, like a person.

And that you will look down, that you'll take notice, or that you'll be in shock. And that was happening more and more.

When I would do readings, when I started doing the, particularly the mediumship readings, when familiar spirits were, quote -unquote,

I hate to use the terminology, but coming through, right? And we know it's not, we know it was not really deceased people.

They're demons masquerading. But they, I would have this sense about them that would be nicer if it was like grandma or grandpa or mom or dad.

There would be this sense of, you know, a mom feeling or a dad feeling. And then there would be times

I did a reading where, I'll never forget this. It was, I was doing a group reading, and I offered two ways of having group readings.

You either could all sit together in one room, or you could have mini readings, just like I had when

I was 13. 15 minutes, one by one. And this woman came in for the reading, and she sat before me.

And so I start channeling. And this demonic spirit, pretending to be her uncle, starts, you know, starts coming through.

And this woman starts looking at me with hatred in her eyes. And I was started, I felt sick and creeped out.

This uncle, right, shot her when she was a child and her brother.

And I'm getting all this information. And so this was a very bold and blatant demon. This was one that was very aggressive, and had no problem stating these things.

And then, and remember, the agenda is always destruction. This is what these demons are on assignment to do, right?

Steal, kill, and destroy. And this woman looked like she was about to destroy me, let me tell you. Because it was like,

I was the uncle, and I wasn't there anymore. And she's looking with that hatred, and that, and I don't blame her for feeling how she felt, but it wasn't me.

I was the messenger there. And I felt sick after that. I went home,

I will never forget it. I felt sick for, I don't remember if it was just a weekend or a full week, but I felt sick after it.

And you think what nerve I have, right? Because I'm communicating with demons all the time. But they really come through differently, they manifest differently, just like I said, even in how they look, or, you know, how they appear to, to you.

So black shadows, black shadow figures, I should say I saw those

I saw them during sleep paralysis. Oh, my gosh. It was terrible.

And you know, it's not something that you can't blame it on. You know, people will say and I always say don't insult people that are have mental illness because it's not a mental illness.

psychic mediumship is not a mental illness. Seeing in the spiritual realm that way is not a mental illness because it is controlled.

I received information Chris about people that were they were strangers. I had their name when when

I started doing a point taking appointments. I had their name and their phone number. That's all I had.

And I could go through their whole I was being fed information by these demons about their family, about their life, things that had happened, things that they even had to go back and they found out through their husband or their mom or their dad, stuff about their grandparents, their great grandmother, what they were doing last week.

I just perfect strangers. That's not an illness that is tapped into the demonic.

That's what it is. By the way, folks, I found the book, the biography of A .W.

Pink to which I was referring earlier. It was, I was correct, written by Ian H. Murray and it is available at the

Banner of Truth. In fact, I would strongly urge you, if you intend to buy it, to go to our sponsors.

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Murray. Anyway, so when you were experiencing these things, how early on or how late into your journey through this did it begin to haunt you that this was not a good thing?

Even if you believed it was absolutely real, that doesn't necessarily mean, oh this is good, this is something proper.

Even if you don't have Christ in your life, there are people who are opposed to this kind of thing, even if it just creeps them out.

Tell us about what you were thinking when you were experiencing these things. Pretty early on,

I was afraid when those things happened, when I saw those evil manifestations,

I was afraid. At that time, I don't think I was even particularly tying it into doing the readings.

I didn't know. It was when I started going to that divination group that then

I had that idea that, okay, all right, so I'm meditating, I'm doing readings, that makes sense that there's good and there's bad.

But now I had this sense that I could control it somehow. I was being told I could control it.

Like I said, those false tools of protection. You used a good word there. You used the word haunt, which sounds like people think of the movies and haunted houses and stuff like that, but it really does haunt you.

It's tormenting. Like I said, I felt those presences around me all of the time.

When I got older, like I said, after the divination group and everything and then I would go out and do these group readings and I was afraid to go at night.

I was afraid to go by myself. I was afraid to drive because the drive home always included some extra demons manifesting themselves in the road.

And like I said, something I realized after the fact, they just want to cause destruction. Imagine if I had stopped short because it looks like a human being in the road and in the rearview mirror,

I could see these demons manifesting as familiar spirits coming home with me after the reading.

And then you kind of have this idea, okay, it's because I was opened up, but let me go home and burn more sage.

Let me get some more protective crystals. Let me imagine more white light around myself.

It's always the idea that you have some sort of power over demons and that you have some sort of control and you don't.

And demons aren't afraid of those things. They're not afraid of sage. They're not afraid of crystals. They only are afraid of Jesus Christ and only

Jesus has the authority over all creation. But I didn't know that.

And when you say that they're not afraid, demons are not afraid of sage, not afraid of crystal.

Have they ever, in your opinion, pretended to be afraid of those things?

Because, you know, the demonic realm and Satan himself are all about deception.

And perhaps it may keep a person sucked into participating in something like this if they think these things are working, these things that are warding off evil.

And, you know, like for instance, I don't know how much of this is a part of true experience, but sometimes

I have seen, just like in the movies, during an exorcism somebody will hold up a crucifix and the so -called or allegedly demon -possessed individual will begin screaming in agony.

Now, that could very well be a trick, you know, to make the person think that this idol that they're holding.

I mean, it actually further deludes the person to believe in idolatry, you know, when they're holding up something like that.

But anyway, before you answer, we're gonna go to a midway break and you can answer when we come back. Don't go away.

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From Psychic to Saved. And before we go to any listener questions, Jen, if we could go back to the question

I asked before the break, if you had ever experienced or known of anything from the demonic realm that tricks people into thinking the ways they are attempting to thwart their power are working, such as holding up a crucifix, such as splashing so -called holy water on them.

And we could go on and on. Yes, but I think in a different way than what you're thinking.

So let's say I had a ritual before I would do a reading and I would burn sage and I would light a candle and I would meditate.

And I believed all those things were working when the reading was seemingly pleasant, helpful, warm and fuzzy type of deal.

We're crying at the end of it. So I thought by doing those things, that was the reason why it was

OK, why it seemed less scary. So I was definitely duped.

I was duped by those false tools of protection. So when it was not as smooth as that,

I blamed myself, like there was something I just didn't do enough to, because, after all, those things work against demons and the

New Age brain. Well, thanks for that answer. And let's go to a couple of listener questions.

Let's see here. We have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who asks, did you ever see a demon masquerading as one of your own deceased loved ones?

Oh, that's so interesting. I didn't see one masquerading as one of my own loved ones, but I did believe that I was speaking to my own dead loved ones at times.

During channeling, I would channel for my family, which you would think would be a really strange thing, because you're thinking, hey, that's your family.

How could you say that you're channeling them? But it would always be information that I wasn't aware of, things that I didn't know, and mom and dad would have to confirm or validate.

So, no, I didn't necessarily see anybody that I had lost, but I definitely had the sense that I was dealing with them and channeling.

And thanks a lot, CJ. We also have Frederica, who is in Barber, California.

Frederica asks, is channeling that you keep mentioning a specific kind of medium activity?

I can remember, especially a decade or more ago, seeing them featured on different television shows where the person would actually start speaking in a different voice and so on.

Was that what you experienced? Yeah, I can remember that, too. On some of the major talk shows, you would see these people, and they would even physically start to contort themselves, and you'd hear a different sounding voice coming out and all that kind of thing.

That sounds like possession, Chris. It probably was, but they were claiming that they were channeling somebody.

That they were just channeling. So the channeling that I'm talking about is when you— not a complete trance -like state, but see, the meditating,

New Age meditation is this idea where you're opening your mind, and what's happening is you really are going into a different state.

You're going into a different state, and that is allowing these entities in. And when

I say in, I mean more so around. So it wasn't that I was demonically possessed, but they would do things through you, download information, just like when

I did automatic writing, so I'll use the word again. That was channeling. So I'm in a meditative state, and I'm asking a question for insight supernaturally from whoever

I believed it was at the time, a spirit guide or your spirit guide or your grandmother, your grandfather, and I would start writing very quickly.

Automatic writing is channeling. So the information is not coming from you. It's being downloaded rapidly, and that's through these demons.

So right before the reading, like I said, like I mentioned, I'm going into this state, this different state, where I'm able to access the communication from these spirits, a .k

.a. demons. I hope that answers that. Yes, and when you say automatic writing, from what

I can remember when I have seen people again on TV claiming to do that, they were just scribbling something.

It wasn't some kind of a language. Is that what you're talking about? That's a part of automatic writing when you're just scribbling, and I would do that sometimes during readings.

So when I used to do readings, I would have a notebook and a pen with me, and because I would receive, well, and I would receive information different ways, whether it was something

I was hearing, something I was seeing, something that then I just started writing. And sometimes

I would scribble a little bit. There's an energy. I hate to say that word.

I really do, especially being safe now. Well, as long as you add the adjective demonic to it, that will be fine.

Yeah, let's even replace that. It's not even so much that that's the

New Age idea. It's not even that it's an energy. It's a demonic spirit that is heavily influencing the situation.

So I would start scribbling. But no, my automatic writings mainly were actually readings on a piece of paper.

So getting the information downloaded, just as if I was sitting before you and I was just reading you and speaking to you the information.

Rather, I would be writing it on paper. And that was a part of my services, actually.

You mean writing it in the English language, you're saying? Correct. Writing in the

English language. So let's say it was Joe Schmo wanted to know about,

I don't know, something in their life. Or just, hey, my name is Joe Schmo. Give me a reading. But I want an automatic writing.

So, OK, so sit there, go into the same meditative state. And boom, started receiving information.

And I would write it and you write it down. But it's not really you. You know, it's not you. It's not your thoughts.

And it's not about you. And it's nothing that you could even know. It's things about these people that come out and the validations are in there.

So validations was a validation was a new age term for when a piece of accurate information would be told, would be given.

Because it's kind of like this. Hey, listen, you see, how could I have known that? So now the next piece of information and I'm kind of doing this in the in the position of the demon.

Right. So I'm going to give you this piece of accurate information. And then I'm going to tell you a bunch of other things that I really can't know with 100 percent accuracy because I'm not

God. But you're going to believe every single word of it, because I just told you you were, you know, fumbling around in your closet last week when nobody else was in the room looking for mom's necklace that you were going to bring to the reading or that you, you know, whatever.

Well, you ate at Luigi's. I was I don't know why I always use that example place because I'm Italian, I guess.

Is that is that a place I should visit on Long Island? No, but I never it's made up.

I'm sure there's a lot of Luigi's around there. Oh, I'm sure there are. And I have a lot of good places if you want recommendations later.

But, you know, you went to the Italian restaurant and last Tuesday and you spilled the spaghetti sauce on your pants and you get really mad.

And then this happened and that happened. And the psychic reader wasn't there. So how could you have known that information?

Right. So these validations or these pieces of accurate information are being told. There are things that have already happened that can be reported with 100 percent accuracy.

And then they're going to start filling in the gaps with the with the lies. I mean, well, those are lies, too, right?

The lie is where it's coming from. It's coming from a demon, not a spirit guide, not a deceased loved one.

But now they're going to start filling it with future information as well, because, see, people going for readings don't don't only want to connect with somebody that they've lost.

They want to hear about things. Is this going to be OK? What's good? And there are some people that didn't even want to connect with a departed loved one because they miss them.

They just wanted information about what job to take. Who was I going to marry? What you know, just real psychic information.

And the thing is that demons don't know the future. Only God does. Only God knows all things.

Only God is omniscient. But when the demons lay down that foundation for you.

Hey, but I was able to tell you this and I could tell you that you're going to believe hook, line and sinker. And that's going to impact your decision making.

And that's going to keep you going back to the reader, which is the point. And further away from God, not going to God.

And that's the point not to come to Christ, not to hear the gospel, not to walk in truth and not to have eternal life in Christ Jesus.

But to put your faith and trust in a psychic. Wow. We have

Tati T .O .T .T .I. Forgive me if I'm mispronouncing that in Yellow Springs, Ohio.

And Tati asks, have you ever angered customers, for lack of a better term, by giving them information that they said was completely false?

No. Wow. No, really? That's kind of pompous, right? But but I'm being honest with you.

No, absolutely not. And I have to say that the the readings that I gave were extremely accurate.

And it was and there's always a justification for something. So let's say the future thing didn't happen.

Right. There's always a justification. Well, you have a will. And had you gone down this road and that road and nobody cared anyway, because you have to remember something.

If what people are hanging on to is what they resonate with and the pieces that were already given, the things that have already happened that are accurate.

It doesn't take much. You want to believe this so badly. You'll take the two pieces of accurate information and throw the rest of it in the garbage.

It won't matter to you. You're just so intrigued and hooked by it and it will just keep you going.

And eventually, if you can't get appointments with your psychic or your psychic medium, you're going to get your own card.

You're going to get your own crystals and they're going to tell you to because the enemy just keeps it going. He just he just is building his army.

So I hope that answers that. And let's see here.

Oh, we have our old friend Grady from Asheboro, North Carolina. A faithful, loyal listener and financial supporter of Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

And Grady says, Greetings, Brother Chris and Sister Jennifer.

What reaction did you receive from other psychics, family and people you had readings with when you gave them the news that Jesus Christ had saved you?

Have you had the opportunity to see God graciously save any of them? Wow. Hi, Grady.

Nice to meet you. Greetings. That's such a great question. When I came to Christ, I I was witnessing left and right.

And God put me in such a position to do that because I was still getting calls for readings. My parents completely denounced any sort of psychic communication, any tools of divination.

They stopped. They were very happy for me. Could I say that they came to Christ? I not.

No, I can't say that. I don't really know what my mom's relationship is. I really believe my mom always had a relationship with Christ, but was very deceived.

And now, unfortunately, she has dementia and it's it's very difficult there.

We keep praying. My sister stopped doing the tarot cards. She has not come to Christ.

Boy, I could go through a list. I was booted just to answer your question. I was definitely booted out of the

New Age community, better off for it. And God has restored those relationships times a million with a beautiful church family.

Praise God. So the answer really is no, I haven't seen anybody come to Christ that was in my circle then.

And I even had this client that I used to call her my VIP client. It was just nonstop.

She just wanted readings all the time. But she let me come to her house after I was saved and sit with her and talk to her.

And I was able to meet her again. And I brought the Bible and I actually gave her one of my books. And we were talking and she just isn't receiving the good news.

She's not receiving it. So I just pray those seeds were planted. Thanks a lot,

Grady. And thanks for your generous ongoing support. We have

Thad, which I'm assuming is an abbreviation for Thaddeus.

I don't know that for a fact, though. Thad in Badger, Kansas. And Thad says, every time

I have seen a so -called medium on television, they have some kind of association with Roman Catholicism.

I am not saying that Roman Catholic hierarchy approves of this.

But it just seems to be a constant connection that I have personally witnessed whenever these people are being interviewed on talk shows.

Is that your experience? Well, it was with you personally. Yeah, it was with me.

And he may even be referencing, which I don't know for a fact. John Edward, John Edward associates.

Yep. Right. Teresa, of course, Long Island medium here on Long Island. The people that I was with in the circle absolutely were associating themselves with Roman Catholicism.

Very big here on Long Island. And I'm trying to think of anybody else really that we see on TV.

I'm not too sure, but not all of them, but definitely the ones that are standing out, too. And no, the truth.

We actually just made a great video about this. Doreen Virtue and I, we sat and it's on Doreen.

Oh, it's on both of our YouTube channels. But we actually sat and we went through some of the Long Island mediums audience readings, stage readings.

And we commented as we went and we bring that up. And Doreen actually puts in there how the

Catholic Church is not in favor of divination. They do know that they they they're aware.

So, no, they don't. And plus, you have to remember something. It's still a very it's it's just that way of saying, hey,

I'm Catholic, but I really just do whatever I want. You know, I go to church, but I don't read the Bible. You know, so it's sad because I think that's a great deception that the enemy is that the enemy has a tool of deception that he's using.

So he wants people to think that if he's he throws some God words, Jesus words, religious connotations to it, that you're going to think it's

OK. You're going to think it's good. You're going to think it's holy. And you're going to feel perfectly fine going and getting that reading.

And let's face it, there is not a huge leap. From. What they would call venerating, which is actually worshipping, regardless of what they say, dead people.

You know, they claim to have some kind of contact or they are contacting.

They're not necessarily hearing back from them, but some claim they are Mary, the saints, a myriad of saints.

And I think that that just puts that that Catholic at ease when delving into something from the occult world, because they don't really see that much of a leap.

And I'm not going to say his name because he's deceased now. And maybe he repented of this.

I don't know. But there was a much beloved Roman Catholic figure on Long Island who was a monsignor.

He had a television show. And he was he he was reprimanded very strongly by his bishop because he was referring people in deep mourning after losing loved ones.

He was referring them to mediums. And this is a Catholic monsignor.

Wow. That's horrible. Oh, yeah. And I have a very close family member.

I'm not going to say which one, but a very close family member who is still

Roman Catholic. And she has consulted mediums and, of course, was convinced of the genuineness of one particular medium because the medium said, why am

I seeing a runway at an airport? And sure enough, my father was a pilot in World War Two, and he maintained his pilot license all the way up through his early 70s.

But, you know, that kind of a thing. But but, you know, and I and I I I warn her and I warn anybody that I know who has any kind of professed connection with Catholicism who is delving into this stuff.

Look, you Catholics believe in the Old Testament just like I do. Yours is longer because they believe that the apocryphal books are part of the

Old Testament. They call them the Deuteronomical Deuterocanonical books. But I said in your same

Bible, this is condemned by God and was even warranted in the

Hebrew Scriptures, the death penalty. So anyway, by the way, that that comes to mind,

I don't know if you've ever done a study or if you have heard

Pastor Doug's or Pastor Bob's or Pastor Danny's views on this over at Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island.

But have you heard of a discussion on whether or not

Saul in the Old Testament, when he came, visited the witch of Endor to summon up Saul, who had been deceased, for information and counsel and help on battle strategy,

I think it was. The Bible does not say that the that the entity, if for lack of a better term, that was summoned up was not

Saul. It never said it was a fake charlatan masquerading spirit of any kind.

Do you have any belief on that at all at this point on whether or not that was really

Saul? And if if that really happened, could it happen today and all that kind of a thing?

So very interesting. You bring this up. This is a huge debate, even, as you probably know, amongst even scholars, theological scholars.

Was it a familiar spirit or was it Samuel? So we know the story. King Saul goes, he sneaks over there in the middle of the night and he goes to see the witch of Endor.

And she's a medium. She is. And she was very surprised. He asks to bring. She says, who do you want to bring up?

And he says, Samuel. And she looks shocked when Samuel. So so right there, you say,

OK, God and his authority. And, you know, he he allowed that to happen. You could say that.

Or do you say, well, God has already condemned mediumship and we know the demons masquerade.

So I think I love how R .C. Sproul actually he had said something to to this extent.

OK, we can go we can look at this debate, but let's go with what we know for sure.

And we know that God says you don't do it. So if if God decided to bring up Samuel, right, that was in his sovereignty and his authority to do so.

It doesn't mean that you go out and do it. So we need to focus on the text of, you know, not to practice divination, not to consult it.

So personally speaking, which is what you asked me. So, yes, I spoke with the pastors about it because once again,

Doreen and I do a lot of work together. So we were going to make a video just kind of giving both sides.

I wasn't I hadn't landed anywhere at that time. This was months ago. And I brought it up to the pastors and pastor.

Well, I don't want to call them by that because I don't want to get anything wrong. But to my memory, either all of them or at least two out of the three believed it was a demon, a familiar spirit.

Yeah, yeah. And so I've heard both, Chris. Yeah, I've heard both sides. You could look into it.

I think John MacArthur spoke about it, too. Pretty sure he did. Actually, I haven't looked into it in months.

I mean, I could see the argument either way. Right. So, OK.

All right. I know. Yeah, right. Well, it would seem to coincide with the belief that today nobody is contacting the dead.

But as you were saying, that may have been a very unique one time example of how

God permitted this to happen. And then we see what happened. Well, he died.

Right. The next day. And Samuel was upset. Or if you want to say the spirit that pretended to be

Samuel was upset for being called up. And you wonder why a demon would be upset.

But anyway, I guess we'll never know until we're in heaven. And maybe when we're in heaven, we won't care. Yeah, I don't think we're going to care.

I asked

Pastor Mark Grimaldi, who I heard in your advertisement. I asked him when he gets some time if he would want to come on my show and actually talk about that.

Cool. That passage, you know, that's, you know, his view yet. No, I only asked him if he would come on.

He said yes. You know, he's he's got a lot going on right now. So I'm hoping when things clear up for him, we'll get that going.

That'll be great. No, by the way. Please don't let me forget. How do. By the way, folks, we're not over yet.

We still have another segment. But I just want to make sure that I don't forget to ask Jennifer what the

Web site is that where people can listen to your own podcast. My Web site, which is kind of the hub for all of my all of my handles, all of my social media and my and my podcast, which is psychic saved podcast available on all your podcast listening platforms for the most part.

But my my Web site is www .xpsychicsaved .com.

And there you'll find the links for my tick tock, my YouTube, my

Instagram and my podcast. Podcast, which is completely dedicated to exposing the new age tactics, the new age deceptions and the practices that are still going on today.

All right. We have to go to our final break. And if you have any interest in joining the conversation with your own question, please send in your question immediately because we're rapidly running out of time.

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Jen Nizza. I'm Dr.

Joseph Piper, president emeritus and professor of systematic and applied theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

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Welcome back. Folks, please don't forget that an advertiser that you hear every day, and you've been hearing it for years,

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Buttafuoco, attorney at law, a dear friend of mine since the early 1990s, and he has been a financial supporter of nearly everything that I have done in the realm of public service representing

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and please mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We're now back with Jennifer Nizza, who has written a book,

From Psychic to Saved, that we have been discussing, and we do have a listener.

I was just looking at it. Where did she go, or perhaps he, because Meredith could be either a man or a woman's name.

Meredith in Charlotte, New York. I didn't even know there was a Charlotte, New York. And Meredith asks,

Have these demonic manifestations ever been conjured up in your mind in life now after you have been born again?

OK, so I'm actually writing a book right now about spiritual warfare and demonic attacks, and the

Christian is not exempt from some oppression. As we know, we cannot be possessed, but there is some oppression.

And I have been spiritually attacked in the time that I've come to Christ. In that regard, psychically, maybe twice, and it shook me to my core.

But as my walk got stronger and my knowledge of God's word increased, we have

God gives us so many principles, so many biblical principles, spiritual weapons in the spiritual battle that, of course, he talks about in Ephesians 6, 12, the spiritual battle.

And I pray I've fasted. I have, you know,

I'm in the word daily. I'm in church weekly. I'm an encouragement group, which

Chris may be familiar with from Grace Reformed. But it's only happened a couple of times.

And it was an attempt, in my opinion, an attempt to just try to lure me back, provoke fear and discomfort.

And of course, it's not going to work. Amen. We have time for one more question.

We have Benjamin in Pepper, Delaware. And Benjamin says, you said earlier when you were an active psychic medium that you were not demon possessed.

How do you know that? Because if I was if you think about the possession accounts in the

Bible, you could see that they had no control. They were not of sound mind at all. They were not able to.

They weren't functioning. So I don't believe one is going to be because, I mean, they were completely taken over.

That's that's what possession is. The demon completely takes over. So you're not going to the store with a list, you know, picking up groceries, you know, doing a reading, then, you know, tucking your children in at night and driving them to school in the morning.

That's not possession. I would say it was heavy demonic oppression, but not possession.

And I would concede that I probably was getting close to some sort of possession.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was if that was getting close to that.

But no, that's you could see what possession is, according to the accounts in the

Bible. By the way, everybody who's written in questions, you have won a free copy of the book that we have been addressing by Jennifer Nezza from Psychic to Save.

Make sure we have your full mailing addresses so that CVBBS .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service can ship you a copy.

One last question for myself. Tell us about the very frequently held belief, especially it seems by charismatic and Pentecostal Christians, that physical possessions that you bring into your home could bring demons into your house.

It could have been a possession that was owned by somebody involved in the occult.

And you naively, innocently bring it in your house. And all of a sudden, you've wreaked havoc in your home.

And then a last, and these have to be fairly brief answers, and the last one would be about Ouija boards.

Is something like that really dangerous? Those are such huge topics,

Chris. Well, we have to have you back then.

That's all that that means. Yeah, it's like a cliffhanger. Let me go with the second one first. Ouija boards absolutely are dangerous.

It's a tool of divination. One can say it's just a wooden board. It's a wooden board used as a tool of divination to contact who you believe is the dead.

You're only invoking demons when you do that. You're going into the practice of divination, and you are going to get the consequences of that, and unfortunately, demonic activity opening those doors.

In regards to your first question, what a convenient idea it is to believe that you have these soul ties or soul attachments or demonic attachments, and that the

Christian can be possessed, because then the answer to that, of course, would be the deliverance ministry, which is not biblical to go to man for anything like that, but no, you don't need to worry about, my goodness, where would the freedom in Christ be if we had to worry about every single place we went or people that we knew or things that happened, and then we have all these attachments, and we're coming home with these attachments.

Definitely stop shopping for antiques if that was the case. Just be discerning.

Be smart. I mean, you're not going to—don't sit and watch a paranormal activity in the movie.

Don't watch Ghost Hunters. Don't have tea and coffee with psychic mediums. Certainly don't go for readings.

Don't do things that are blatantly demonic, and now you know, and I pray that you know now, that these practices are demonic and only demonic.

They are unholy, ungodly, and spiritually dangerous. Just be very discerning.

Well, thank you for being such a superb guest, and I really meant what I said. I want you to come back to the show, and I look forward to frequent visits from you,

God willing. Don't forget, folks, the website is xpsychicsaved .com,

xpsychicsaved .com, and also don't forget about the website for the church where Jennifer is a member, my former church, or should

I say the church I formerly attended when I was on Long Island, gracereformedbaptistchurch .org,

gracereformedbaptistchurch .org, which is located on Long Island in Merrick, New York.

I want to thank everybody who listened. I want to thank especially those who took the time to write in questions.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.