Understanding Amendment 4: The Battle Over Abortion Rights

Abortion Ballot Measures and the 2024 Election

Welcome to The Wrap Report with your host, Andrew Rapoport, where we provide biblical interpretation and application. This is a ministry of Striving for Eternity and the Christian Podcast Community. For more content or to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

Welcome to another edition of The Wrap Report. I'm your host, Andrew Rapoport, the Executive Director of Striving for Eternity and the Christian Podcast Community, of which this podcast is a proud member.

We are here to provide for you biblical interpretations and applications for the Christian life. I don't know if you guys heard about this, but there was an election in America recently. Yes, there actually was, and believe it or not, well, there's many in the media in America that do not believe it, but Donald J. Trump won again.

That is the third election in a row he has won. Well, I didn't say that he was president three times in a row, but it was the third time he won. It's either that or there was a great rapture of the Democrat voters because, yeah, hundreds of thousands of votes just suddenly evaporated in this election.

I don't know what happened. It's either that or they never existed in the first place, but Ocman's Razor, easier to believe they never existed in the first place. I know. That puts me on the terrorist watch list for Joe Biden.

I get it. And if you don't know that, just go back to, oh, back three years ago now when Joe Biden first got into office, we did an episode on his view of national security, defining what a domestic terrorist is.

And yes, if you questioned the 2020 election, he defined you as a domestic terrorist. If you did, welcome to the club. We are now the winners. So with that, what I want to do, though, as much as we want to celebrate the the election and the fact that there is a reprieve on the Marxist agenda, as some described it, a slapdown.

More importantly, there were other things on the agenda we want to talk about. And if you watched when I was on the Your Calvinist YouTube channel with Keith Foskey, we did an election night. I would argue it was the most fun election night reporting on the Internet.

And so because, well, when you have Keith Foskey, it's going to be fun. So we had a lot of fun. We were probably giving a lot of reporting. And if you remember that, there were two people that were giving a lot of stats and updates from the election and details and clearly more politically minded, way too politically minded than the rest.

One was myself and my guest, Matthew, here tonight. So, Matthew, would you mind introducing yourself to the Rap Report audience?

Well, I would love to. And thank you for having me on today. I do agree that hanging out with Keith and friends on that podcast was a lot of fun. Keith Foskey and I have been friends for several years now.

We actually met because our church hosted a debate between Dr. James White and Michael Brown were taking on two pastors that were supporting homosexuality in the church down in Florida here. And we hosted that debate and I got to be the moderator, which was quite a bit of fun.

So Keith and I met then, have had a great time since then. Who am I? I'm nobody special, just a native Florida boy that grew up here in Jacksonville. I currently live just south of Jacksonville in St. John's County.

Elder in my church at Switzerland Community Church down and also in St. John's County. And we're just a data nerd. I love digging into politics from a data perspective and figuring out shifts and trends and all that sort of thing.

And probably what will be more salient to our conversation today really had a lot of vigor and passion against one of the ballot measures here in Florida, that being Amendment 4.

And so as we as we look at that, you were very active. And so I want to I want to that's why I had wanted to have you on after after the discussion we had on Keith's program, because you're very informative.

But you were you were working very actively. And so we got into some discussion on Keith's program. And I mentioned it there. I'll mention it now before you start talking about what you know, what this was all about with this proposition for.

Because where a lot of people were just looking at who won the presidency, maybe they were looking at the Senate and the House. But the propositions were also quite important. In fact, I believe seven states approved voter I .D., which I just think is so amazing.

Do you realize that Joe Biden has done more for conservatism than any conservative, even Reagan? I mean, it's crazy to think about. Joe Biden entered office with two states that believed in constitutional carry.

There's now 22. He entered with 22 states that had I think it's 22 states that had voter I .D. And now there's seven more. Right. It's just amazing to see what he has done for conservatism. And we call it the blowback effect.

Yep. Yeah. Now, Prop 4 was something that we ended up seeing. And I mentioned this on Keith Foskey's show. And I also mentioned it one of our podcasters, Truce Spresso with Daniel Minnick. And you can go back and listen to the podcast he did about the he lives in Colorado.

And Colorado had a amendment to legalize abortion at every stage of pregnancy, which was really strange because it's already the law there. And so he went into describing some of the things and I called him up and let him know because there was one thing he might have missed.

And he did because he told me he didn't know about it. So one of the things that the Democrats or Marxists had had recognized and I'm saying the Marxists versus Democrats because not all Democrats are Marxists, but the Marxists are the ones pushing the agenda.

And what you ended up seeing is that they had realized that even in red states, when abortion was on the ballot, Democrats won. So they also discovered, George Soros, that even though George Soros not being an American citizen is limited on how he can fund and affect the American politics, he found a loophole.

And that loophole allowed him to funnel as much money as he wanted into local propositions. And so what he tried to do in every state was get a proposition about abortion in every state, hoping that by funneling tons of money for abortion, that would help Democrats.

So it was a way that he could funnel a ton of money legally because he couldn't do it as a foreigner in any other way. I mean, he tries to set up these organizations in America that he funds them, but that was the plan.

And so that's why in Colorado, even where it's already the law of the land, they put it on the ballot. So it's something we just had to realize, but a lot of that got pushed back because, you know, Matthew, how many states had, if you know, how many states had the abortion.

On the ballot? As far as I'm aware, and I don't have a list in front of me, there were 10 and the results were as follows. Seven of them passed. Three of them did not. The three that were defeated were in Florida, Nebraska and South Dakota.

South Dakota sent it packing 60 to 40 against and their simple majority rule to approve it. And that was no thanks to their completely useless governor who did not say a single word about it the entire time.

It was just grassroots South Dakotans. And I actually have some friends up there that I was messaging back and forth with and talking about that fight. They just beat it old school style, just lips and shoe leather.

There was Nebraska, which was a some are calling it a partial win because Nebraska had two ballot initiatives. One was basically a copy of Amendment four in Florida, which is any abortion at any time for any reason.

Basically, that one failed by about a point. Then there was another one that said no abortions beyond 12 weeks. But if the legislature wants to be stricter than 12 weeks, they can. That one passed. So this weird dueling amendments kind of thing going on in Nebraska, some people, there's a lot of talk about was that really a win or not, because it did it did put in the Constitution, no abortions after 12 weeks.

But the legislature can be stricter than that if they want. And they defeated the abortion at any time for any reason. So I would have been interested to see what if both had passed. What would they do then?

Yeah, that would have been interesting. Yeah. And I'll push pause on the ones that we beat for a minute. The ones that we that abortion rights, air quote, were were put into constitutions, Colorado, as you mentioned, Maryland.

There was one other one, and it's it's my brain's failing me right now. Yeah, those two, that was always going to happen. Oh, New York, that was at New York State, which, again, was always going to happen.

Exactly. And I think you're right about trying to juice Democratic turnout. I think that was part of it. But it was also virtue signaling. It was the idea of, well, our legislatures have already passed these laws.

But what if someday the Republicans take over? We want to lock it behind a constitutional amendment so that it's it's done. You can never. Well, not never. You'd have to pass another initiative. But to where no evil lawmaker can take away your right to choose.

That was really it was virtue signaling. That was the idea behind it. One's other other ones that we lost that were in otherwise conservative states. Arizona approved theirs running away. Sixty two to thirty eight or.

Yeah, it was not even close. And that's a state that Donald Trump is probably going to win by about seven. And we'll know that sometime around his second or rather around J .D. Vance's second term, Arizona will be done counting votes and then for sure.

But Arizona is still counting votes. The their prop 139 is probably going to end up passing by 62, 63, something like that. So they ran that. They won that one running away. And then finally, Missouri, which I think might be the most painful loss of the night.

Missouri, very conservative state enacted after Dobbs enacted the very first was the very first to come out and say our abortion ban is now in effect. It was a total ban. Aside from mail order abortion pills, which I know that's a different topic.

But as far as surgical or clinical abortions, let's say Missouri's was defeated. Or excuse me, Missouri's abortion amendment took it to the far extreme, which is basically at any time for any reason. And it passed like fifty one forty nine.

And again, a completely useless chief executive who did nothing to fight back on that or to push back on it. So aside from Florida, which I know that's why you're we're having this conversation, that's kind of the lay of the land nationally of how things went.

Why Ballot Initiatives Are a Bad Idea

Yeah. And this is the thing that for a lot of people, they think the only thing to vote on is president. Right. And what you ended up having is you had a bunch of people that voted for president, didn't vote for House or Senate.

Don't vote for these different propositions. They just look at the elections as president. Yep. And we know that because, well, you see that in the in the voting, you see it where, you know, if you voted party line, you should see the same amount, but you see much more votes for president and then less for Senate, less for House and less for the initiatives.

Now, I will admit the initiatives are often worded in a confusing way. Whoever controls the whichever party kind of controls the election board gets to word the elections the way they want. One thing I do like when I used to live in New Jersey is New Jersey was required to have a summary statement to explain the confusing language that they would put.

But often that summary statement was still confusing. You were like, we'd be like, wait, is it am I voting for this or like, what am I actually voting for? And they'll do that so that they can pass something they know the majority doesn't like.

Yep. And you're exactly right. What it takes is someone like yourself to get out there and communicate to people what the proposition is about, because a lot of them are purposely confusing. And that's why I think why a lot of people ignore them.

But I think as as American citizens, we and Christians, we have a responsibility to vote. And as that responsibility, we have a responsibility to make sure it's an informed vote. So we can't just ignore these things because they're confusing.

I try to teach my people because we had a class. So like I said, I'm an elder in my local church, and I was teaching a class during our Christian education time on Sunday morning. About it was called Biblical worldview, but it really got down to how should we be voting?

So we covered Amendment three in Florida, which was a marijuana legalization amendment, which failed. We covered Amendment four, of course, which was the abortion for any reason at any time amendment, which failed.

But there's also candidates, right? Like some people say, well, Donald Trump is, you know, personally objectionable and his character is this or that. And and, you know, like good hearted, honest, devout Christians could have some questions and needed their pastors to step up and help them work through it.

Not just a flat endorsement for Trump or whatever, but but to help them think through these things. And so I taught I taught my people. It's almost like a mini civics lesson. I was like, listen, federalism still exists.

The states have some things they can do. The local counties have some things they can do. And yes, the president matters and it matters quite a lot. But but it was never supposed to be this important.

President comes from the word preside. He was just supposed to preside over the federal government and not do tons and tons of stuff. Now, the stakes are much higher because of the way that office has been, you know, how it's how it's it's it's developed over time.

But I think I said this on Keith's podcast. My hierarchy of things I cared about were at the very top was Amendment four in Florida. Like I cared about the other amendments in the other states. But this is my this is where I'm a native Floridian.

This is where I grew up. This is what the place I care about. And I love babies. And I'm a Christian. This is the one I care about the most. And then number two was the Senate, because that has implications for judicial picks and stuff.

Number three was the marijuana amendment. And number four was the president. And people like, how could you not care? I'm like, I didn't say I don't care. I'm just saying in my hierarchy of things that are going to impact my life and the judgment or lack thereof of God on my land.

This is the order I picked them in. So, yeah, I completely agree. People should people should vote. They should vote with a an eye towards restraining evil and rewarding good as much as possible. And they should be informed when they do so.

Crazy to think about that.

It is possible since we had four years of Biden. And I think I said this on Keith's show. I don't know if I did, but Joe Biden, Donald Trump will be able to do more in 2024 than he would have in 2020.

It's crazy to think about had he won in 2020, he probably would have had to fight with the the the House and the Senate, which would have given them a larger majority in both in the midterm. And he wouldn't be able to get as much done.

Now he comes in with a with a majority, we think, in both. And the fact this is a crazy thing to think about. He put in three Supreme Court justices. There are two more in their 70s, one that's close.

You have Alito, Thomas that are both in their 70s. And then you have the the the Supreme Court justice, the chief justice, John Roberts. His name was just eluding me. I think he's I think he's 68, 69, 69.

So there is a chance. And I don't I to be honest, I don't see Robert stepping down in the next four years, but I could see the other two. But you could you could have one person, Donald Trump, that could put five or maybe six Supreme Court justices in.

Yep. And if he was to put in three more conservative justices. So six out of nine would be firmly conservative. It would be and he's choosing young people. I mean, my first pick personally, I think if if Alito or Thomas decide to resign, my hope is that he puts Ted Cruz on the Supreme Court.

I could see that Cruz has argued in front of the court before. And I'm glad you went to the Supreme Court, because even as Keith would tell you, I'm actually more of a Supreme Court nerd than I am any other form of politics.

I will admit in public on a podcast that I am the kind of guy that actually listens to Supreme Court oral arguments for fun sometimes. I know that that makes me some sort of foreign species to people, but I find it fun.

But yeah, I will just say Alito and Thomas have been far more constitutionally solid justices than than anyone else. Well, then Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsuch. Yes. Granted, listen, they Kavanaugh, Gorsuch and Barrett, Trump's three appointees have been 7000 times better than a would be Hillary Clinton nominee.

Don't don't misunderstand me at all on that. But Gorsuch and Bostock versus Clayton County really wrote a horrible opinion there. And Kavanaugh and Barrett have both had a couple of issues where they've really squished out on.

They're still good 90 percent of the time. But Alito and Thomas are at that 99 percent level. And I just don't know. I don't know if he'll find some like that, but I'll take I'll take six out of nine being at the 90 percent level.

I think that'll generally work. Yeah, I think that's why I say Ted Cruz, because Ted Cruz would be as conservative as Alito or or Thomas than than anyone else. And the fact that he just won his Senate seat back after they spent I mean, they spent more money trying to in New York, California, all this money from the Democrats came from all these other states to try to get rid of Ted Cruz.

That's how much they don't like Ted Cruz, which which I actually I I thought was great when Ted Cruz won because it meant that was all wasted money. That's money that didn't go toward Democrats that that could have won.

So, hey, Democrats, keep that policy going.

Texas, I think electorally, just kind of overall, the biggest surprises of the night to me were Illinois, New York and Texas. And the reason is because Joe Biden won the state of Illinois by 19 points and Kamala Harris is going to end up winning it by seven.

Well, I when we were doing the show, I was pointing out my home state of New Jersey. Yeah. Which usually has like a 20 point lead for the Democrat. And while we were doing the show, New Jersey had changed from Democrat to leaning Democrat for president.

And I was I kept watching it and it was getting closer and closer. And then the ballot dump from from Newark. But Jersey went only five percent for the Democrat. Now, RFK was in there. So it becomes the question, what was RFK on there?

The point half a point for RFK, did that go? Would that have gone for Trump if he was off the ballot? Or was it people that said, I don't like Kamala. I don't like RFK. This is New Jersey. We know the Democrats going to win.

I'm going to, you know, or so I didn't like Kamala, didn't like Trump. And so they voted for RFK. And so they were Democrats that just didn't want to vote for Kamala Harris. Yeah, could be. And and so so it could be that the Democrat won in New Jersey by anywhere from four and a half to five and a half percent.

The thing, though, is here's a crazy thing to think about. That puts New Jersey as a swing state, which is wild.

Yeah, wild. I mean, like saying Alabama is a swing state. That's just crazy.

I mean, if if if J .D. Vance goes to New Jersey like Trump did and think about this, why was it that New York and New Jersey were so close this year? Because Trump was forced to only campaign in those states because he had to be in a court case every day in New York City.

And so here's a judge that is trying to I'm going to keep you off the campaign trail. And yet what did it do? It it kind of forced him. He couldn't be very far. So he set up campaigning all in in these heavy blue areas, tops it off with a Madison Square Garden event.

And people are like going, hey, like I have a friend of mine. He came down the day that the Mass Square Garden, I was preaching in a church. He came down and he said the crowds that were when he was coming down to Pennsylvania for me to actually came in Jersey for me to pick him up.

OK, the crowds first thing in the morning were so big. He was like, New York could go for Trump. He really thought there was the chance. And I had. I mean, if if Jersey or New York goes for Trump, that's it.

You know, it's like it's over. So it would be crazy to think that four years from now we're talking about Jersey as a swing state.

Trump, the Supreme Court, and the 2024 Political Landscape

Yeah, it will remain to be seen if that's the Donald Trump effect or if that's general Republican policy is appealing to them. Because you have to start thinking, what a Vance, what a DeSantis, what a Haley, what a whoever else would they be as appealing there?

Don't know. I don't think as appealing as Trump. I think there's something special with him in those New England states because of his background being from Queens and all that.

And I do think, though, that a J .D. Vance or a. You know, your governor, there's DeSantis, either one of them. What they do different is explain conservatism. I mean, look, for the record, Donald Trump is not a conservative.

Correct. Agreed. Donald Trump is a libertarian. He voted Democrat until Barack Obama. He supported Democrats until Barack Obama.

He donated to Kamala Harris's Senate campaign as recently as like 2014 or something like that. Yeah.

And he he donated to Hillary to to sorry to to Bill Clinton's campaign. So. You look at I mean, this is the the problem that I see right now in American politics for conservatism. We don't have anybody who is really speaking on what conservatism is.

You have the people that we're looking to. Donald Trump, a libertarian. Elon Musk, a libertarian. Joe Rogan, a libertarian. They're not conservatives, but those are the three people that people are crediting with this, the turnout and this election win.

I think a lot of it's got to go to Joe Biden himself because, you know, he was clearly undermining Kamala. Every time Kamala actually the rare time she did something well, he would be like these garbage people.

Yeah. Yeah. Man, his his speech after she conceded and then his speech, whatever the next day, he was giggling. He was smiling. Really funny. I haven't seen him smile in a long time. But but I he's still bitter about getting forced off.

And I think there's a little bit of schadenfreude when Kamala Kamala wins.

But well, and I think this is why you end up seeing realistically here he's forced off the ticket. He's upset. She comes out one of the few things she did well, she's trying. I mean, the whole time they're saying, did she have enough time?

Her plan was to do what Joe Biden did and win it from a basement and let the media do all the talking. But Trump and J .D. Vance just kept pointing out it's X number of days she hasn't done a press conference or an interview.

It's X number, you know, like over and over. So she had to start doing them. And when she started, they were horrible. I mean, she needed a whole day to prepare for one on a friendly network. And like it was so clearly biased that now the reporters have to to say face, have to make it look like they're actually asking hard questions or general questions.

And she did such a bad job at answering. It's like, no, we got to get you on again. And yet she would constantly give the same bad answers. And so she finally is coming up with a positive message because, you know, her message was always Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.

I mean, that's basically her entire message. She came up with a unity message of unifying the country. And the day she does that within hours, there's Joe Biden calling all of Trump's supporters garbage.

Yep. Yep. Don't tell me he's not bitter.

The rumor is that she was seeing some in turn. I mean, the polling was pretty even all the way up to the bitter end. The rumor is that she was seeing some internals that were really getting concerning.

And that's why she pivoted from a Trump is a whatever race. He's Hitler homophobe. And so, yeah, yeah, basically, he's he's more Hitler than Hitler. He's mega Hitler and all that, too.

Mega Hitler. He's must be a mega Hitler. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, exactly. Make America Germany again.

Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah. So so she her final sort of appeal, you know, the night before she before the election or whatever it was, people were pointing out she didn't mention Trump once because it was all about, like, happiness and unity and all what I've heard.

And again, this is literally the source is some folks on Twitter. So take this for exactly how much it's worth is that they started panicking in the final days of her campaign and the old guard Obama people, the Obama await in the Obama 2012 people that were all about the hope and change messaging swept in the get out the vote, especially in the swing states in Pennsylvania, specifically, actually, the Obama team, the old school Obama team took over and really goose the turnout and all.

And that's why in the swing states, Trump I mean, Trump won convincingly in the Electoral College and in the popular vote. But in the swing states, it was still a close election. Yeah. I mean, Pennsylvania is going to end up being what, fifty one forty nine somewhere around there at the presidential level.

So the other reason it wasn't a five or eight point wipeout is because in the last second they tried to pivot more to a to a more seasoned political operatives. But it didn't work. It wasn't it didn't.

Well, it didn't work because Joe Biden sabotaged it, which, you know, is quite interesting. And in now that we have we are looking past it. But so. I mean, the thing we really want to focus on is as much as people focus presidential whatnot, I'm I'm with you.

We got to focus on, you know, the people Trump is going to be able to put in office now that he has the Senate and this is things for people to understand. The Senate is important for all of the his his selections.

When when Trump his first term, he couldn't get people. He could not get selections for all the judges around the country. Yep. I do find it interesting because Barack Obama came in and fired every single judge across the land.

Attorneys. Well, the people he could he could.

Yeah. Yeah. Everyone he had executive power to. You can't fire judges, but he can hire attorneys. Yeah.

And so he did that across the land. Every single one that not just the ones Bush put in all of them and then put his own people in. So when Trump came in and did the same thing, oh, then it was like racism.

And, you know, he's he's a dictator and all this. But then the Senate, he couldn't get a lot of them approved. And so we had a lot of court cases that were backing up because we couldn't get approval on these things.

And then he started waiting until the little thing they have, where there's a three day if the Senate's out for three days, he can appoint them in an emergency order. So he ended up doing that. Recess appointments.

Correct. So now he can get those in. So now he can actually start doing some things. The the House will be important for the, you know, being able to get the money. But one of the things that we're focusing on here on this is the propositions, because this is what everyone ignores.

These propositions are important because this is this is whether for good or bad, how the elections, how they affect different states, you know, are you are you in favor of statewide propositions?

Absolutely not. I think they're one of the worst possible things. And if I could remove them from the constitutions of all 50 states, I would do it immediately. Absolutely.

And I knew the answer ahead of time because you mentioned that on Keith's.

Florida’s Amendment Process and the Problem of Direct Democracy

Program. So, yeah, well, you look at the United States Constitution. It is not subject to a popular vote for amendment. It's both houses of the Congress have to pass something by a two thirds majority and then three quarters of the state legislatures have to pass it.

And that was done intentionally. It's supposed to be a pain in the rear to amend the Constitution. You don't want to do that quickly or flippantly. And so citizen initiatives in the states that can mess with their constitutions.

Absolutely not. I think it's a horrible idea.

And it is something, though, that the left has used to try to slip things in to get what they want when they can't get it. They don't they don't want to have to put it up for a vote. Amongst themselves, because they A, they the vote could go against them and B, they don't want to have to go run on reelection on the votes that they did.

So they'd rather put it before the people and make it worded in such a way that people are think they're voting for one thing and they're actually voting for the other. Yeah, you know, they're voting for health care rights of women.

Yeah. Bingo. Yeah. Instead of murder of of unborn children, I've called it this before.

It's would you vote for the Orphan Puppies and Veterans Protection Act, you know, and and it gives ten dollars to orphan puppies, ten dollars to veterans and 17 billion dollars is sent overseas to unaccountable countries.

No. Why are you against orphan puppies and veterans? You know, like that kind of stuff. That's the kind of thing you get on these ballot initiatives sometimes. And the mob rule is a bad thing. OK, mob rule will cause problems.

And our founders knew that. And that's why we have both a house which is elected by proportional representation. And then we have a Senate which was specifically designed to be undemocratic. Yes, it is not designed to be democratic.

It is designed to represent the interests of the state as a political entity. And so, no, the Senate is not the United States Senate is not proportionally representative and it's not supposed to be. So direct democracy in many cases is a really, really bad idea because people are emotional.

People can be whipped up into a frenzy and we just need to stop and think and actually allow some time before we we make a knee jerk reaction to stuff. Now, sometimes those guardrails don't hold and you end up getting something like the Patriot Act, you know, right after 9 -11, which ended up being used by an all-powerful state to spy on whoever it wanted to.

That made it through Congress and was signed by the president. Right. So all the safeguards didn't hold that one away. But more often than not, they keep a lot of bad ideas out of out of the law books.

You know, when you read the early founding fathers of this country, and I think most listen of the listeners, I'm going to ask you guys a question to think about. Why is it that the founding fathers had set up two years for the House of Representatives and everyone gets re-voted in every two years and six years for the Senate?

Well, the founders explained this. Their intent was that the House of Representatives were to be the common people, farmers that couldn't be away from their jobs for two years, for more than two years.

So the idea is they would come, they would serve their country in a short stint. They would have two years, then they get back to their job. And the Senate was supposed to be the more, shall we say, educated.

If we want to use the terms we use nowadays, the House of Representatives would be the blue collar and the Senate would be the white collar, if you want to use those terms. But that's the thinking that the representatives control the purse.

Why? Because they're the people who are working the farms, working the lands, having the jobs that they don't have a lot of money. So they're going to have a tighter view of money. And then you had the Senate where they're going to be there longer, have a little bit of a longer view of things, but they're going to be the more educated.

They're going to be the ones to appoint the positions that are established where they're going to look more long term. That is what the founders had designed. The founders never had a plan for someone being in the House of Representatives for decades or in the Senate for decades.

Joe Biden has had 60 years. Sixty. That's not what the founders had planned. They thought you'd do one term and leave, maybe two. And so they didn't think people would make a career out of this. This was something that people should, they come to Washington or, well, New York at first, but they come to, I just said that offhandedly.

But for those that didn't pick that up, Matthew, I saw you nod your head. So you got it. But our capital was first in New York. Before it was moved to Washington, D .C. So. The reality is that they didn't have a plan, they didn't have a plan for that they'd stay in D .C., the president stayed in D .C. and the and the vice president, but the rest came in for vote a few times a year, and it would be only a few times a year, because remember, when you're coming in by horse, it takes months.

A crazy thing that's always stuck with me, John Adams, the second president, he found out that his son had died three months after the funeral. Because that's how long it took the message to get down to him from, you know, from Massachusetts down to to to the D .C.

Think about that, folks. And so these guys would come in a few times a year, get all the voting done and then return home. Because it would take a long time to get to get there. That's the way it was designed.