WWUTT 1960 Q&A Ending of the Lord’s Prayer, Shiny Happy People, Gothard and the Duggars

Why do some translations of the Bible not have the longer ending of the Lord's Prayer? What's with the documentary, Shiny Happy People? And can we learn anything from the rise and fall of the Duggar family?

The answer is when we understand the text.

This is When We Understand The Text, a daily Bible teaching podcast to help encourage your time in the Word. Tell all your friends about our ministry and to search for WWUTT on whatever podcast app you use.

Here's your teacher, Pastor Gabe.

It almost sounded like you were saying that, Here's Johnny, there. Here's Johnny. Here's Gabe. Hey, Babe. Hey. So, let's come back to Psalm 68. It's been a little while. Yes. Remember doing Psalm 68 a few weeks ago?

Yeah. I think this is where we left off. So, starting in verse 15. Okay. A mountain of God is the mountain of Bashan. A mountain of many peaks is the mountain of Bashan. A mountain of many peaks is the mountain of Bashan.

Why do you look with envy, O mountains with many peaks, at the mountain which God has prized for His habitation? Surely Yahweh will dwell there forever. The chariots of God are myriads, thousands upon thousands.

The Lord is among them as at Sinai in holiness. You have ascended on high. You have led captive your captives. You have received gifts among men, even among the rebellious also, that Yah, God, may dwell there.

So this starts by saying, a mountain of God is the mountain of Bashan. Bashan was not in the promised land. Bashan was off to the northeast. It was on the other side of the Jordan. And the mountain there was higher than Mount Moriah, which is where the temple was built.

So why would it say, the only places that are ever called the mountain of God are Mount Hermon, Mount Sinai, Mount Zion. That's it. So why would the mountain of Bashan be referred to as a mountain of God?

Now first of all, the definite article is not used here. So it's a mountain of God. It's not the mountain of God is the mountain of Bashan. A mountain of many peaks is the mountain of Bashan. But then the very next line in verse 16 says, why do you look with envy, O mountains with many peaks, at the mountain which God has prized for his habitation?

So the mountain with many peaks is Mount Bashan. Because that's what's said in verse 15. And it said then in verse 16 that that mountain envies where God has actually placed his dwelling. So why would it be called a mountain of God is the mountain of Bashan in verse 15?

Likely, because this mountain was so tall, it was much taller than Mount Moriah and also had a multitude of peaks. So since you could see that mountain, you would probably have thought, well, why doesn't God make his dwelling place there?

That's the tallest mountain. And there's also many peaks to that mountain. But that's not where God has placed his dwelling. So it's as if you would look at it and say, that's a mountain of God. But no, that mountain looks with envy on the place where God has made his dwelling.

Why do you look with envy, O mountains with many peaks, at the mountain which God has prized for his habitation? Surely Yahweh will dwell there forever. Verse 17, the chariots of God are myriads, thousands upon thousands.

The Lord is among them as at Sinai in holiness. So this is in reference to chariots that cannot be seen, like the chariots of fire we read about in 2 Kings, for example. And these chariots, though they cannot be seen, are greater than any army that is on earth.

So you're looking at that mountain and you're thinking, that should be the place where God dwells.

Right. Well, is that the same thing as the wise men coming through and thinking that he'd be at the palace?

Yeah, right. So the magi, when they came from the east, they went to the palace in Jerusalem because, hey, he's a king that's been born. That's what the prophecies say. So surely this is the place where he's going to be.

But he's not. He's in that little place called Bethlehem, which is the city of David. Yeah. You see a similar sort of a thing here. But what God has at his disposal is greater than what any eye can see.

Right. Verse 18, you have ascended on high. You have led captive your captives. You have received gifts among men. You made the magi connection. Yeah. The magi who brought gifts to the king. Even among the rebellious also that, yeah, God may dwell there.

And then verse 19 goes on to say, blessed be the Lord who daily bears our burden. The God who is our salvation, Selah. So we have a Lord that sits on high. There might be places that we would think God would much rather prefer.

Why doesn't God prefer that place? Because it's much more glorious. But God dwells with his people. God dwells with his church. And so as you go to church this Sunday, you may have a small building. You may have a few people.

But God is pleased to dwell there. Amen. With his people in his church. All right. That's Psalm 68 to start things off for us. This is the Friday edition of the broadcast, which we're uploading on Saturday.

Yeah. Sorry, guys. And you can send your questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com. That's what we like to do on Friday, respond to questions from the listeners. Before we get to that, I had said on Wednesday that the ending part of the Lord's Prayer I would cover on the Friday edition of the broadcast.

Right. So let's come back to that. Can you say the Lord's Prayer?

Can you quote it for me, babe? Our Father? Yeah. Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day your daily bread and forgive us of our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.

Very good. I wasn't actually expecting you to do that. I was being rhetorical. Well. But well done.

Thanks. I was trying. I was actually curious if I could do it still because we've done, like, that's the original that I memorized, right? That's King James-ish. Right. Yeah. And so we've kind of changed it up to the children so they know what they're saying a little bit better.

Thy isn't in there. Right.

Trespasses we don't use. We say debts. Yeah. Debts and debtors. Forgive us our debts as we have forgiven our debtors. You did flub on verse 11. Give us this day our daily bread, not your daily bread. Oh, man.

You said your. I did. But you quoted it from the original manuscript, or at least the earliest manuscript evidence that we have from the Gospel of Matthew. You quoted that correctly because you skipped, for yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever.

Amen. Right.

Because I said it the old way. If I said it the new way, then I would have put that in there because that's how I memorized it.

Well, that's in the King James. For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. So newer translations like the ESV will omit it. Or the legacy standard in the New American Standard will put it in brackets.

So I've been asked this question before. I mentioned the question on Wednesday. I said I'd save it to Friday. But why is it that the English Standard Version cuts the end of the Lord's Prayer? And why does a translation like the LSB put it in brackets to indicate that it is not in the earliest manuscripts?

For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. Where does this come from?

I was going to say that the brackets usually means that it's a change. No it means... That it has been like a change that's happened. Well, sure. Yeah. Right. So it's a later edition. Yeah. Yeah.

That's what I mean. It wasn't in the earliest manuscripts. Right. So this actually comes from 1 Chronicles. It's based on something David prayed. In 1 Chronicles 29 11, he said, yours, O Yahweh, is the greatness and the power and the glory.

Sound familiar? Yeah, it does. And the victory and the majesty, indeed, everything that is in the heavens and the earth. Yours is the kingdom, O Yahweh, and you exalt yourself as head over all. So here's the likelihood.

Here's what probably happened. Okay. When Byzantine monks were copying the early manuscripts and they were making copies of copies, they wanted the Lord's Prayer to be something that people memorized and could recite together.

So to make it a complete prayer, you wanted to have that conclusion at the end and sign off with Amen. Okay. Meaning, so be it. We're all in agreement of everything that we've prayed together. But this needed a conclusion.

So some Byzantine monk may have written over in the margins the conclusion that came from 1 Chronicles 29 11. That's a good conclusion. So let's put that over in the margin. So you pray this prayer and then you look over in the margin and you add that conclusion.

Well, as the manuscripts get copied, eventually one of those monks grabs what was written in the margin and just brings it over into the text. Okay. And so now we have an ending that's not exactly 1 Chronicles 29 11, but it's based on that.

To give us a close to the Lord's Prayer. For yours is the kingdom, which is kind of at the end. But since kingdom was mentioned earlier in the prayer, your kingdom come, your will be done. We got to have kingdom in there.

So we're going to put that at the start. Yours is the kingdom. To sandwich it. Right. Yeah. So you got kind of the header and the footer in there, and then you have and the power and the glory forever.

Amen. So now we've got our complete prayer. Now we've got something that's kind of like a catechism prayer that all of us can pray together. We can recite it together unto the Lord. Sure. But that wasn't what Matthew originally wrote.

Now see, this actually testifies to the accuracy and the reliability of the scriptures. The fact that we can go back into earliest manuscripts and we can see that that ending wasn't actually there. And so in the more modern translations, in things like the ESV, where the ending is actually omitted, but the NASB and the LSB that puts it in brackets.

This indicates Matthew probably didn't write it. It was an addition that came later. But when we take that out, like a King James only us will say, if you take it out, then you're changing the scripture.

It's still in the Bible. You can find it in First Chronicles 29 11. Right. Very true. But we know through careful study that Matthew didn't write this. So to be accurate, to be accurate with what Matthew wrote, he wasn't writing a prayer.

And Jesus wasn't giving a prayer. That would be something that's like, you know, recitable, that we're all like praying together. You can do it that way. But he's teaching his disciples how to pray. So pray like this.

And you have the various petitions. So he's not really giving it as a, here, recite this prayer. He's giving it to teach them how to pray. Otherwise he would have tacked on that ending so we can all pray it together and we can have that nice conclusion with amen.

But that wasn't what Jesus intended. It wasn't what Matthew recorded. Therefore, to be accurate, we're going to keep it as Matthew originally wrote it. Make sense? Sure. So that's the extended ending of the prayer.

Then I also mentioned on Wednesday that I would get to verses 14 and 15. And explain those a little more too, because I didn't have enough time on the Wednesday. I think I came up at 25 minutes as it was, and I try to keep them at 20.

I never hit 20. But verses 14 and 15, for if you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

Now that's an interesting thing to add in there at the conclusion of that prayer. Because at first glance, that almost looks kind of off topic. Why are we talking about that? Because Jesus had previously said, pray like this.

Don't practice your righteousness before others as though to be seen by them and receive congratulations from men. Right. But give to your Father who's in secret, and He'll reward you. Pray to your Father in secret, and He'll reward you.

So we go from that into pray then like this. And so we get to the end of that prayer, and now you have this lesson on forgiveness. Well, that's not in the context of what Jesus is talking about. So why is that?

At the close of the prayer, it's right at the end of the Lord's Prayer, and right before we go into fasting. Now, whenever you fast, don't put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites do, which is the lesson I'm doing on Monday.

Okay. Well, isn't it because we need to be forgiven of our sins first? Like before you come to communion, you have to go make it right with a brother or sister.

In Christ. Yeah, that was talked about earlier in the Sermon on the Mount. Right.

That was in Chapter 5. So isn't that essentially the same thing? Like before we pray to God, we need to ask for forgiveness?

So in 1 Peter 3, verse 7, it says that if there's strife within your marriage, then your prayers are hindered. And so it's encouraging husbands and wives to be agreeable with one another so that their prayers will not be hindered.

Same thing goes here. If you have strife between brothers in the Lord, then your prayers are hindered. And also, as mentioned in the prayer, forgive us our debts as we have also forgiven our debtors. Now, that's not the very conclusion of the prayer.

The next line in verse 13 is, and do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. So it's not like Jesus goes straight from forgive us our debts as we've forgiven our debtors. And if you forgive others, their transgressions, your heavenly father will also forgive you.

We've got another line in the middle there. Do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. So it could be that the temptation that Jesus had in mind there was with regards to holding grudges against your brothers.

Since that was talked about previously in chapter five, we have a statement in the Lord's prayer about forgive us our debts as we've forgiven our debtors and lead us not into temptation, holding on to grudges and bitterness and being unloving toward others, but deliver us from the evil one.

I think you could still read that generally. Don't lead us into temptation of any kind, but in context, don't let us be tempted to harbor anger and hatred and bitterness in our hearts. Consider that in Ephesians chapter four, Paul says, don't let the sun go down on your anger and then give the devil a foothold.

So if you're not forgiving your debtors, then you're giving into temptation and you're giving into the snare of the evil one. So then Jesus says at the conclusion of the prayer, if you forgive others, their transgressions, your heavenly father will also forgive you.

But if you do not forgive others, then your father will not forgive your transgressions. Also consider that that is not something that is done in view of others to receive the congratulations of men. And that's been the context here in this section of chapter six.

Don't practice your righteousness in view of others so to receive praise from men. If you're forgiving, there's not really anything praiseworthy for that. In fact, the general consensus of the public is, yeah, sure, you can have your bitterness and I'll have mine.

You complain about all the stuff you want to complain about and let me complain about all the stuff I want to complain about. We're a bunch of complainers in this culture. Grump, grump, grump. And especially in Judah at this time, and in Israel, holding grudges was a thing.

Yeah. I mean, if somebody wronged you, then you wronged them right back.

I don't know if there's any time in history that was not a problem, you know?

Yeah. Is there ever any people anywhere? That's what I'm saying. That was just a generally forgiving people. Right. Yeah.

Like, everything's good. You were forgiven right away, you know, like, I don't know if that's a thing.

It is in our nature to hold grudges with one another. Oh, yeah. To have our bitterness toward each other.

Well, I mean, obviously, it's written in the Bible. Many times, apparently.

Many times. Addressed. And here, Jesus even tacks on an ultimatum with it. If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you. Right. And so, when you come in prayer and you come with this attitude of forgive us our debts as we've forgiven our debtors, you already have the forgiveness of God.

That's right. But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions. If you have been forgiven by God, it is going to be seen in your life that you're going to be gracious and forgiving toward other people.

It is astonishing the number of people that I have counseled that have bitterness and grudges in their heart toward other people. Yeah. And that may not be the thing that they came to me asking counseling for.

In fact, I don't know, it may be one out of 20 cases of anybody that's come to me asking for counseling would actually say something like, I need help forgiving somebody. Usually, they come to counseling for something else entirely.

And then we come to find in the conversation, there's a lot of pent up anger and hurt and frustration with other people and grudges that they just haven't let go of. That seems to be tied in with the other spiritual issues that they need to have figured out.

There's also grudges.

Yeah. Well, I mean, whenever you're focusing on a grudge, you have to focus on it to keep it there. So you're focusing on the grudge and then you're just grumpy. And so then everybody else irritates you because you're grumpy because you're focusing on this grudge.

I mean, you can't have a grudge and not pay attention to it. You know what I mean?

Well, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, your general disposition is less sunny for sure when you're holding grudges against other people.

And then you just kind of take it out on everybody.

And this kind of bitterness, it's like drinking poison and expecting somebody else to die. Right. Which is really bitterness. Yeah. It is. Holding a grudge against somebody else. It does not benefit you.

And of course, our holding grudges do hurt other people. It's not that you're holding a grudge against a person is not hurting them. It is. It's hurting you too, though. And it's hurting you worse than it's hurting the other person.

But it's not just hurting the other person, because obviously those people that came in for counseling had problems in other areas. That affects multiple people. Yeah, it does. So it's not just between the two of you as you think that it is.

It's definitely not. Well, it's like the whole thing of, you know, you can't sin on an island. Your sin is not just affecting you. Right. It's affecting everybody around you. Yeah.

And especially those closest to you. Yeah, definitely so.

First and foremost. So there is the further commentary on Matthew 6, 13, and then also verses 14 and 15. Now, it's not being said here, Jesus is not saying that if you forgive others, yay, you're saved.

Right. Definitely not. But if you have the forgiveness of God poured into your heart, then you're going to show that forgiveness and that grace toward other people. Yeah. Yeah. And holding grudges feels pretty miserable, not just in the sense that a grudge doesn't really make anybody happy.

But if you truly have the Holy Spirit within you, or you know the Word of God, it's going to eat at you that you are holding a grudge against somebody and not being forgiving. Definitely. So make it right with other people.

Talk to your pastor about it. If you're still holding onto a grudge with somebody, and have someone that you trust be able to guide you through the scriptures and help you to understand that conviction of the Spirit that is on your heart, you need to let go of your grudge.

Yes. Have no bitterness toward anybody. As the Apostle Paul talks about in Colossians chapter 3, let these things be put away from you. In them you once walked, but now you must put them all away. All right.

Let's get to some questions here. Now this one, we're going to go back a couple of weeks here. Okay. Because we had somebody that asked this question. I said I didn't have any intention of following up on this.

But I had a couple of people contact me and said, no, we really think you need to watch this. Okay. So this was a question that came from Chris in North Carolina, Gabe and Babe. I have recently become aware of an Amazon Prime docuseries called Happy Shiny People that covers the rise of the Duggar family and the influence of Bill Gothard's teachings and movement.

A friend of mine shared about some of its content on social media, stating that she had been raised in the Institute in Basic Life Principles, IBLP. She briefly described the environment as cultish, particularly surrounding the personality and teachings of Bill Gothard.

I listened to the first episode of the show and it became clear that while some of the interviewees seem to just want to get the truth of various abuses in the open, and that's actually the way it ends, too, others were using the opportunity to bash the whole of conservative biblical Christianity.

There seemed to be a conflation of homeschooling with some cultish, backwards, harmful lifestyle. I know better. I was raised in IFB circles and was homeschooled as well, but I do not recall anything related to IBLP.

Do you have any insights or experiences with this group, its affiliations, and its ideology? Well, like I answered this question the first time a couple of weeks ago, I did not have any affiliation with IBLP.

I didn't even find out what it was until just a few years ago. Okay, hold on a second.

Can you back up and tell me what IFB is and the IBLP? IBLP. Yeah, that one. The B-I-B-L-E.

I'm like, there's too many acronyms. Hold on. I'm swimming. Every time I say that, that's what I have it as. The I-B-L-P. Yes, that's the movement for me. It's not. It's just the song that gets stuck in my head.

This is the Institute in Basic Life Principles, I-B-L-P. This was Bill Gothard's thing that he created. We actually have an, what would you call it, an institution, an institute, a center? I don't know what you call it.

Anyway, it's real close to here where we live in Lindale. There was a Bill Gothard facility. I can't remember where it is. It's not far from here, though. I think it's just like an hour away. But it was even where Bill Gothard was when he got kicked out, I think.

Oh, interesting. Or arrested or something. I don't remember what it was. He never got charged with anything. So all of his, all the stuff that he was in trouble with were accusations. There was never like a trial or anything like that.

But anyway, that facility is not far from here. And there are people at our church that have been influenced by it, that have been in it or were raised in it. So that's what I-B-L-P stands for. IFB is not an official acronym.

It is the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church. So there are IFB churches. You'll pass by one. It'll say Independent Fundamentalist Baptist sometimes. Rarely do you see that. But you'll find a lot.

You know, those churches are independent, even though there are kind of an association of them. They're independent, but there's an association. But anyway, that's an IFB church. And a lot of times, those IFB churches tended to be really strict, very legalistic.

For example, the King James Bible is the only divinely authorized English translation of the Bible.

Okay, it's that church. Right.

Where there's nothing in the Bible about that, but they make it a law. Okay, true. And things like a woman has to have a skirt down to her ankles, and if she's not, she's sinning. Oh. If there is a part of your body that you don't want a man to touch, you should have that covered up.

Okay. And if you don't, you're sinning. Okay. But the thing with that is, you probably don't want a man touching you anywhere. Nope. I don't even want him touching my face.

I mean, a handshake is fine, but don't touch my face. Right.

Now, that's a charge that's given to a woman. But yeah, for me, it's like, shake my hand, don't touch me anywhere else. But I don't see why I need to cover that. That's just kind of a weird I'm not sinning by wearing shorts.

But it's stuff like that. So when they're making rules and laws around those kinds of things, that's very legalistic. It's not in the Bible. Right. So you're adding to God's commands. It's building a hedge around the law, but then you make that hedge the commands of God.

Okay. God commands this. So not only in IFB circles do you have that, but especially in the IBLP, Bill Gothard was doing a lot of that. Okay. And especially toward women. A lot more rules against women than there were rules toward men.

Although the men had their share of it as well. Right. But I was again, I was not raised around any of that. My parents were pretty strict, but we were not even independent fundamentalist Baptists. Most of my young adult life, I attended a Mennonite church, and we weren't even Mennonite.

Right. Dad would just go wherever in whatever community we lived in, my dad would go to the church where the gospel was being proclaimed and sin would be called out. And so for two of those communities that we lived in, one in Pennsylvania and the other one in southwest Kansas, it was the local Mennonite church was the most gospel preaching church.

So that's the one that we went to. I was baptized in a Mennonite church, but none of those churches were none of those churches were like the IFB. Okay. It wasn't a lot of legalism. There was some, but you know, I think you're going to find that anywhere.

Right. You can go to a liberal church and find that legalism there. Yeah. It's not just in the IFB church. They're just kind of notorious for it. But then the IBLP, the Institute of Basic Life Principles, you know, those principles weren't in the Bible, or they would grab stuff from the Bible, but then they'd add to it as well.

And then those principles became laws, became rules. Sure. So on and so forth. Now, again, I was not influenced by that, but I was unaware of the stuff that existed around me that actually came from Bill Gothard.

And one of those an example of that is the umbrella of authority. Have you ever seen this before? So there's like this three-tiered umbrella, or it might be four-tiered anyway, the umbrella at the top, which is the biggest umbrella, is Jesus Christ.

And then right under that, a little smaller umbrella that says man or father or husband or something like that. Okay. And then underneath that is another smaller umbrella that says wife or mother. And then underneath that might be a little tiny umbrella or a bunch of little umbrellas that say kids, the children.

So this is the umbrella of authority. Okay. Now, I've seen that drawing before. I had no idea it came from Bill Gothard until just a few years ago, because I had posted it on Instagram one of our Instagram pages or Facebook or something like that.

Okay. And somebody said in the comments, that's from Bill Gothard, and like totally rebuked it and was ripping on me because I had posted something from Bill oh, you've been influenced by Bill Gothard.

I was like, I have no idea who that is, or I just I have a vague understanding of who that is. Right. You know, wasn't aware of his teachings, anything like that. This was a few years back. And so I just left it, because I liked the illustration.

It made sense to me. Mm-hmm. You know, you have Christ, and then you have the man of the house, who is the head of his wife. Sure. Who's underneath that. And then the children are to be subject to that.

I mean, that's the direction of authority that's given in Ephesians 5 -6. And then you also have that in 1 Corinthians 11 -3. Right. But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

Right. There is authority in Christianity. There is even hierarchy. So it's not wrong to say that there's authority. But with this umbrella illustration now, here's something that I did not know until I had somebody who had been in the movement explain it to me.

Okay. So this whole umbrella thing that was this whole drawing, it comes from Bill Gothard's ministry, the umbrella of authority. If there is a hole in one of those umbrellas so like you're talking about the father or something.

Okay. Then the umbrella underneath is not protected. So if the father has sinned, that puts a hole in the umbrella. This is how the illustration goes. Okay. Okay. So if the father has sinned, there's a hole in the umbrella, and now that trickles down to the wife.

Mm-hmm. And now she's got a hole in her umbrella that trickles down to the kids. Okay. So if the kids are unruly, if the wife is unruly, then the problem is probably with the dad who has done something sinful.

And it's not just that he's done something sinful. It could be that there's some unconfessed sin in his past, and that has caused a hole in the umbrella, and the whole pattern of sin or the effects of sin are now coming down on the wife, which is now coming down on the kids.

And so you have to confess that sin, and you have to do it publicly, and you have to be able to do it the right way, or else the effects of that sin are tearing your family apart. It's a very ungracious model.

There's no grace there. It's all constant worry and concern about, what have I done in my past that is damaging my family right now, rather than going forward in the grace of God and understanding, as said in Romans 6, that the grace of God covers a multitude of sins, where God's grace abounds all the more.

So instead of recognizing God's grace, it's instead focusing on sin and flaw and where I might be going wrong and obsessing over those kinds of things, making sure I've done everything right, because if I haven't done everything right, then God's not going to bless me.

Well, you've never done anything right, and God's blessing you anyway in Jesus Christ. So the truth about God's love is embracing the grace that we've been shown in Jesus Christ, not obsessing over all the little sins that we don't think we've confessed rightly.

And obviously, that model is I mean, it's right there. It's showing you that it's ignoring Christ's umbrella to protect you. Yeah, right.

What about Christ's umbrella right there at the top? I know. It's like Like, his doesn't do any good? The Father's umbrella can get holes in it, but Christ's is not. Right. So Christ, the umbrella of Jesus over the top of everything

You would think that would make Is protecting you. Right. Anyway. I know. That's a really great point, babe. It's like it's ignoring the fact that Christ is the one on top. So yeah, there might be holes in Dad's umbrella, but no water's getting in because Christ is over the top.

Right. But anyway, when I found that out about the umbrella illustration, and all of that's tied into that illustration, I took it off of our social media accounts. Probably for the best. Yeah, because I'm like, if somebody has actually been caught up in that movement and they see that, and they remember everything that was tied into that illustration, then I'm probably

That would be like red flags to me. Yeah, right. Exactly. I'm probably leading somebody to stumble. Right. But as I also said a couple of weeks ago, Bill Gothard has become such a name over the last several years, especially.

I mean, over the last decade or more, but especially in the last few years, he's become such a name that people are now using that name to tear somebody down. Oh. Almost like Like Boomer? Or Karen?

Yeah, well, Karen's a good one. More like Hitler. Like everything's Hitler. Oh. If you get the argument to Hitler, then comparing somebody to Hitler. Because I just had it happen to me this past week.

I said something that was straight out of the Bible. Okay. Like, I quoted scripture. I actually quoted 1 John 2. I was quoting what John said. And somebody in the comments said, that's so Bill Gothard.

It's like, what are you talking about? I quoted the Bible. But people are throwing that name out now. And because of Shiny Happy People, I think it's just going to get worse. Right. Oh, definitely. That documentary is just going to make it you know, everybody's now an expert on Bill Gothard.

Right. And if you say anything obedience related I mean, we're still called to obedience. Christ has called us to obedience here. So the pendulum's going to swing the other way? Yeah. So now, because of this documentary, everybody you say something about obey the Lord.

You say something about being pure. About not giving in to temptation. About not holding grudges, which Jesus clearly gives us instruction on. Right. You know, you say what the Bible says, somebody's going to fire back at, oh, that's just Bill Gothard legalism.