Twitter Indulgences?

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 973 460 to or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 877 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. And now with today's topic here is James white.

Britain’s Same-Sex Marriage Law and the Church of England’s Retreat

And welcome to the dividing line. I don't know. I've ever had a shorter break. Between having been on for the past hour as I did just there some of you may have been listening on the Marty Minto show and I just got done doing a Number of Minutes there almost full hour and as soon as we're done here or to do an hour and then I've got a half-hour break and I'm going to be on a program in Portland, I wish I had that information right in front of me.

I apologize, but I'll be on in Portland. So we are. We are working at it pretty quick hardly even Hardly even got much of a blip. Because we all knew it was coming. But Britain legalizes same-sex marriages after Church of England backs down.

As if anyone was shocked. That the Church of England backed down in England. The Evangelical Alliance of the UK which represents thousands of churches and Christian charities says the new law turns marriage into quote a fluid Gender-neutral institution defined by consumer demands and political expediency end quote.

Amen. That's true. The Church of England which holds 26 seats in the House of Lords previously backed down its opposition against the bill prompting criticism of recently installed Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby according to Jorge Conger, I would assume, an analyst for the Church of England newspaper, African church leaders rebuked Welby for quote Compromising the Christian faith in an attempt to curry favor with secular Britain and with the liberal Anglican churches of North America end quote and Amen, thank you for our Brothers and sisters in Africa who still read a Bible once in a blue moon.

The the continuing I will I will say it I've said it before I will say it again the legalization the redefinition of marriage the profaning of marriage is a fundamentally anti life anti society anti morality anti ethical thing and It's it's continual progress in Western nations is nothing more than an act of defiance and rebellion against the history of those those nations.

Influenced by Christianity, that's all it is. There's there's no question about it. It is it is a very very sad thing, of course, we also. I Don't know how many people sent this to me. I do not know how many people sent this to me.

In fact, if I said I do not know how many people sent. It's a repetitive thing. I do not know how many people sent this to me, but yes to everyone who's asked me. Hey, hey, did you see this? Hey, did you see this?

Twitter Indulgences and the Treasury of Merit

The the fact of matter is yes, I I did see the. The fact that you can get indulgences From Twitter, um, I had now I thought I had in here. No, I must have saved the wrong one. Many apologies. I was going to read you the actual Vatican radio article, but I saved the wrong one.

I apologize.

Hmm.

Okay, well, uh, that's I I think I can still find it here as long as my internet connection is fast. Which sometimes it is and sometimes it's not. Social media. Hmm well couldn't track it down. Anyways, um, did you know Rome has a new Pope?

Thanks, I'll go. I appreciate that that I I was not aware of that that there was a new Pope. That's shocking. I I was just now looking at the picture going boy. He's changed. No, I I did I did know that.

Thank you. I'll go. I think I might Send you to Siberia after this. But anyways, at least I've got the Guardian one up here. Look World Youth Day is coming up and Indulgences have been given for all sorts of things and now indulgences will be given for.

Following.

If you don't go to World Youth Day, you can follow the events by electronic media including Twitter and so if you go and you go to confession and you do the things you're supposed to do and Pray intentions for the Pope and so on so forth and follow them on Twitter. Then you can get indulgences.

It's not just like most of it. Most of the news reports have been well. All you got to do is fire up Twitter and all your sins will be forgiven. That. That's not exactly what is being said. Got to be careful got to be at least somewhat fair however at the same time I wonder how many people Really really understand What indulgences are all about.

It's been a long time since we have discussed indulgences so let's let's remind ourselves of What's going on here because at least a few Protestants As soon as they hear the term indulgences go Oh Martin Luther.

Sadly the vast majority of Protestants would go Martin Luther King. But a few a few Protestants left in the world. Even a few citizens of Wittenberg though. They would be in the small minority. I'm sure.

Would go hmm. Indulgences yes. When a point a coin in the coffer rings a soul from Purgatory Springs. Yes, I Remember a little bit of the history. Well.

Oh.

Thanks Figgy here. I am I'm trying to get into a topic and what are the people in channel doing. They are trying to distract me and. So what what happens here, but. But Figgy drops a URL and it's one of those URLs.

Where? You can actually see what the title is because the URL. So long you know those. It's not just it's not just a bunch of numbers which wouldn't make any sense. But here I am trying to talk about Indulgences and what does he do, but he drops one that says Fuller seminary allows first LGBT campus group.

And here's a picture of Fuller. Fuller Theological Seminary in California has approved an official student organization for lesbian gay bisexual and transgender students. The decision sparked debate in a larger world of Christian colleges though other Christian schools have approved prove similar organizations.

Fuller is the first Evangelical seminary. Do so. No no no no you need to understand. This is CBN .com you understand something. This proves that Fuller isn't Evangelical anymore. A or B. It proves the term evangelical has no meaning anymore.

But remember Mel White was at Fuller so. This is not overly shocking. It's just further evidence of the Degradation is taking place that certainly I observed when I was there.

But it wasn't nearly to the point where it is now since you've been totally taken off the track totally complete. I'm. Where is figgy. Okay since Fuller was discussed I thought you'd be interested in that little tidbit.

I learned on the radio the other day. You know the The religion professor back east who has declared that God is a white racist. No, I don't. Oh. She's uh this has been in the news. Of course you've been writing You know all over the mountains and stuff like that so you've been kind of out of it a little bit.

But she is a graduate of Fuller. Oh, I that doesn't surprise me and surprise me in the least I. What you're you're you're you're you're shocked about this. You shouldn't be Fuller you know I've said many many times when I was there.

I.

People have asked you're a graduate of Fuller seminary. Well, yes, I am with honors in fact in 1989. But I was there's there's two things that were good about that I Think that it was obviously it was God's God's will that I suffer through Fuller seminary for a couple of reasons one I did it in the Phoenix extension primarily which Allowed me to have more conservative Professors and those that flew in from Fuller were also tended tended to be more conservative even though the last class I took from Fuller was an ethics class and At one point the professor left the the podium came down sat down in the class turned his desk toward my desk and the rest of students gathered around us, and he and I debated abortion and I was of course the pro-life guy so and that was 89.

So that was that was a little while ago. But I think the reason that I ended up going to Fuller seminary, I think you know in hindsight You know God has his own God can answer these things is That I was exposed to theological liberalism in its fullness.

While going to Fuller seminary and that has been one of the greatest advantages I've had I mean when I debate Shabir Ali and Shabir Ali starts quoting liberals. Hey, I'm back in seminary I've been there done that got the t-shirt you know I had to read Gerhard von Roth's commentary on Deuteronomy and write a paper on its pros and cons and and I was the only one the class got an A on it even though the only thing I could say positive about it was that I had a nice binding.

I've told that story before but that was extremely important. I did not know at the time how important it was.

But.

That is I think that's that's why I did so anyways.

Seeing.

Seeing this article I mean I am saddened by it but it is just evidence that The path that Fuller has well as certainly and y 'all recognize remember how long ago was it about a year ago that I reviewed the Mormonism comments from the president of Fuller seminary.

Where they met at you know they met it. So I was Zondervan or one of the big publisher places. And he was he's been very involved in helping to mainstream Mormonism and just completely lacked all discernment capacity whatsoever.

So I mean when you've got a president like that you hardly should be shocked that the seminary has just has just fallen off the cliff into something like this, but that's. That's not overly shocking so so do you think I should Keep looking at the channel like people talking about you know Detroit becoming America's largest city to file for bankruptcy which Again, if someone's shocked is there is there anybody out there.

I've been to Detroit I'm surprised that there is anybody who realized that they had a city government in Detroit what their entire sections you avoided all the way. You have to. I mean it's it's it's it's a war zone ever seen that graphic where they they show a picture of Hiroshima, and then they show a picture of Detroit, and they ask who really won the war.

It's it's true. It's true that that actually has nothing that has everything to do with socialism and Nothing to do really with anything else, but no I am going to I am going to try to ignore People in channel who are doing their best jumping up and down to Distract me and get back to what I was talking about.

Because there are other people in the audience who very much want to hear what I was about to say. What was I about to say? Thankfully I have things on the screen and so it reminds me of the things I'm supposed to be talking.

Okay, I got okay, I got I I will have to admit that was a good Effort that was a very good effort Sam Lee and channel. Did you see what is put are you watching channel?

Look at this. A not distracted in here. I'm doing my work. Look at this URL channel CBD news .com.

Froome underline bikes underline to underline Detroit underline so underline Sam underline gets underline a underline mention dot APX. Which I can guarantee you if you click on it at 404s. But he knew he knew that I would see that being the Tour de France.

Aficionado that I am I would know that it would be impossible for Froome to bike to Detroit, but he it's very good.

Very smart. Since you are just totally I'm gonna get back to this event. This is what Marty Minto does to you. No, no. Not really. No, not really, but you know, we're working on all kinds of neat new things on the website.

Yes, are you are diligent. Our website will be doing that soon biking to Detroit the word underline next.

Word underline, okay. Okay. All right. I wondered why just so I'm at the website's gonna be declaring bankruptcy.

Then again, we have a lot of money that way. No.

Yeah, yeah, there you go anyway anyway, okay, I am I am I am not looking. I'm put see what I'm doing. I'm putting my hand in front of the channel here. What were we talking. We were talking about indulgences and we were talking about the fact that let's be honest ourselves.

Most people have no earthly idea. Most Roman Catholics have no earthly idea what an indulgence is. I'm reaching over here. Hadn't done this but here is The Catechism of the Catholic Church, it is a beefy little book.

How many pages is it? It's just over 800 pages long and many many moons ago, I Went through this Catholic catechism, which I think most Roman Catholics would admit is about. It is the authoritative compendium of Modern Roman Catholic belief and teaching.

Obviously there are conservative Roman Catholics that would rather look at older Sources than this I suppose but anyways, I went through this and I I looked at everything. It said on the subject of indulgences because you run into many Roman Catholics today and they say ah purgatory indulgence.

The Vatican to got rid of all that. Well, let me tell you something. Vatican to did not get rid of all of that. Vatican to nuances things. Vatican to tries to use more biblical language. But Vatican to got rid of nothing as far as that is concerned.

There are numerous Sections in the Universal Catholic Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church. On the subject of indulgences and purgatory for that matter. Which are closely related to one another. Let me explain the historic doctrine of indulgences.

So that you can understand. Why it is that? Despite the fact that it marginalizes me and my ministry.

Is.

One of the reasons why I'm frequently not at the big conferences will will never be a part of the the big boy league. Because though many of them are very strong in Roman Catholicism. I have actually engaged in More debates the Roman Catholics than anybody else.

I know of anyways, that's active in apologetics today. Not as many recently I mean a couple years ago. We did five in one year, but Mainly because Roman Catholics are the ones not doing very many debates anymore and certainly are not seeking me out.

Well. Do you get dozens of calls per day from from the leading Roman Catholics asking me to debate and you just keep turning them down?

No, but have I mentioned the ones calling wanting money? No.

Yeah.

Yeah, you do if you do get on the Catholic answers a mailing list. You will get that kind of call. There's no no, no doubt about that. But anyway It would be a lot easier if I just focused upon All sorts of other things.

You know talk about Mormonism or Islam or something with that though. Islam is not really popular either. But I deal with Roman Catholicism and those especially who present the mere Christianity perspective where the gospel does not define things.

Find me scary. They find me too radical. I'm too radical. I'm too far out there. Because I say we must evangelize Roman Catholics. I do not believe that the Pope is The Vicar of Christ on earth and in fact, I do not believe that the Pope represents a Christian profession and There are many within what calls itself evangelicalism.

They all he's just so wonderful. I mean, I don't necessarily believe everything he claims, but oh, it's just so wonderful and they ignore The fact that he actually bears the names of the Trinity Holy Father Vicar of Christ Allows people to kiss his ring and all the rest this kind of silliness.

But anyway The result is that when it comes to indulgences there are very few Protestants, but I have any real idea what what this is all about. They have some idea that Martin Luther didn't like him and that Rome got rid of him.

Well, no, let's Let's start back in church history with the development of the concept of what one Protestant Apologist mistakenly called super irrigation once which is when you leave your hose running too long, but super irrigation.

Which is related to the concept of merit and Basically what happened during the Medieval period is people like to speculate on things. I guess without ESPN you had a lot of time to think about stuff and.

And when you were when you've rarely traveled more than seven miles from where you were born your entire life. The world could be a rather small place and so this led to lots of speculations about you know, how many angels danced on the head of a pin and things like that and The idea was developed that one drop of Christ's blood would have been sufficient to Redeem the entire world.

But he shed a copious amount of blood. So if one drop was enough to redeem the world then what happens with all this excess merit that comes from The shedding of a copious amount of Christ's blood. This is the idea of super irrigation the idea of Excess merit which led to over time and gotta remember this stuff didn't happen overnight.

It wasn't you know, frequently you'll see these books or pamphlets that'll put a date on, you know Purgatory developed in 1215 or something that not that's that's just a naive view of church history. That's not how stuff worked.

It took time and there would be different strands. I mean when you look at the different strands had to come together to form the doctrine of purgatory over time then you can see why there were people who believed a part of What became the doctrine of purgatory without actually having believed in purgatory itself?

Because it took time and there were different elements that had to come together and and form the the various threads that have finally woven together by later people into the final dogmatic definitions of things such as the doctrine of purgatory well.

The idea became that if there is an excess treasury of if there's excess merit from Christ's sacrifice. Then what about Saints? Saints are individuals who in essence. Now there's different kinds of Saints there are Saints the church defines like John Paul's about to become a saint.

And the church defines these as as Saints, but the church will tell you the Roman Catholic Church will tell you there are many people that were Saints that the church doesn't know about and What does that mean?

Well, it means that when they died they had less Temporal punishments for their sins and their soul than they had positive merit to their good works and So they do not have to go to purgatory. They do not have to have any cleansing.

They they go directly into the presence of God. They are Saints well. Okay, what if they if it's a matter of balancing the temporal punishment of sin versus the positive merit of Their good works then could it be possible that they have a lot more positive merit.

Then they have temporal punishment for their sins. Well, yes, and so that becomes Even more excess merit from the Saints and what about Mary? I mean Wow Mary would have all sorts of excess merit because she never sinned and Yet she was perfectly holy according to Rome in the modern era anyways, and So what do you do with all this excess merit?

And So what was developed over time? Was the concept of the thesaurus meritorium the Treasury of Merit and Basically, you know God keeps an account keeps an account of this merit stuff. How whatever it looks like or however you measure it God can do it and And Eventually the idea develops that this is stored up and of course since this is Rome we're talking about this Treasury of Merit becomes something that is under the control of The Roman Catholic Church and specifically of course Under the control of the Bishop of Rome via the power of the keys.

This then becomes the foundation of what happens during the Reformation with Martin Luther because What happens is you've had by the beginning of the 15th century the rather full definition. I mean, I looked at the channel again.

Someone says you're so uncharitable. No, so far. All I've done is just define stuff actually.

You.

You you have the the the development the definition dogmatic definition of purgatory the the concept of the necessity of the suffering of satis Pacio before entrance into the presence of God and In that context very very clearly.

And there's no question about this. Someday I'm gonna have to a program just on this because If any of you remember one of my Certainly one of my favorite debates, it's certainly one of Red Goatee's favorite debates and it's one of Algo's favorite debates the debate that I had on the subject of purgatory.

With a a certain father Peter Stravinsky's a doctor. Peter Stravinsky's two earned doctors one of the most glorious examples of Roman arrogance ever seen. I mean, he just walked in there. He had never read a word I had ever said.

He just didn't think that anyone could mount a meaningful criticism. It's nothing outside of Rome that's worth even looking at and He just got crushed and is angry about it this very day because if you search on his name on the internet first thing that comes up are the sections from that debate.

But anyway.

If.

You if you if you. Look at that at that debate and the concepts presented. They're very very illustrative of what all this is. This is about so you you have you have. And during that debate. I asked him about a particular a particular.

What was it called the Sabatine privilege. Sabatine privilege is the idea that? If you weren't the the scapular that what was on the Friday or Saturday after your death Mary herself would descend into purgatory and release you.

And I was basically asking him. What about what about this concept of time in purgatory? Because it's just so painfully obvious so painfully obvious. That the understanding of the entirety of the church at that time.

Was that you experienced suffering over a period of time?

In.

Purgatory and It just doesn't make it. You cannot make heads or tails out of. What was said that time. If you don't if you don't see that I Mean, what does it mean for Mary to descend on the Saturday after your death?

If there's no Saturdays in purgatory, and if you got a Saturday that means there's got to be a Friday before it and there's got to be a Thursday before that. And Indulgences were were measured in hours and days and weeks and months and years.

So, you know you could go to the castle church in Wittenberg and pray in front of a feather from Gabriel's wing and You know get three months out of purgatory. Three months indulgence. Well, what did that mean to the poor person that dropped the coin into the thing.

So they could go pray in front of Gabriel's wing feather or In front of the vial of Mary's breast milk. Yep, that's what they had in those places. It's been a while since we've done much on church history here.

And we'll have to do that again sometime. But What did it mean to them. Are you gonna tell me that the church leaders didn't know what it meant to the people. And That they were just profiting by these things because see what was going on was that that once this doctrine took hold.

Imagine what it was like to live in the days when the plague was in Europe when the when the when the major Infestation of the plague struck Europe. A third of Europe died. Can you imagine if one third of the people you know?

Died.

Horrible deaths I Mean everybody everybody knew death. They knew their own mortality. Every day you wondered if this was gonna be your last day. That's why issues of heaven and hell and judgment were Fresh on people's minds in those days.

Not so much today. Not so much today. We don't even think about death. We do everything we can to not think about it and so. Because of that then the doctrine of purgatory became a means by which the church Absolutely abused its people Absolutely abused its people.

I have stood in St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. I have looked up Inside that dome and I have I have seen the the gold letters of the Petrine promise around the inside From Matthew 16 and it's real gold.

It's the real thing where you think that came from or anything at all that marble came from. The Roman Church fleeced its flock through the sales of indulgences To build that building and everybody knew it.

It's not it's not an arguable issue. The Reformation started because there were a lot of people in Germany that recognized it was completely wrong To take money from starving people in Germany who's one of their kids just died and They're afraid that that child is suffering in purgatory and so they give their last dime To the church to buy indulgence to try to get this person out of purgatory and that money leaves Germany.

It doesn't feed the poor. It doesn't do anything there. It goes from Germany down to Italy and buys a little more gold the Petrine promise up in st. Peter's. I've never seen an apology for that by the way.

When they start cutting the gold down from the Petrine promise and using it to feed poor folks then okay, you know. That's a that's a step in the right direction anyways, and that was part and parcel of what what brought about the Reformation Was a recognition of the other corruptness corruption, excuse me of the Roman system so the idea of indulgences then fit perfectly with this concept of purgatory and And Given the amount of infant mortality and just mortality in general it would be very easy to understand why Johan Tetzel and His ilk were so successful in raising money for the building of st. Peter's in Rome because they would come in and they would preach and they would have the Pope's authority and They would proclaim that there is this treasury of merit and If you buy this indulgence, you will be given this indulgence letter and There are different kinds of indulgences a plenary indulgence a full pardon for the temporal punishments of of your sins.

Obviously some were were sold in a a way that even Rome would say at the time was inappropriate. There were many people within the Roman Communion that found the idea Reprehensible. I mean Martin Luther was a Roman Catholic When he wrote the 95 theses He didn't if you had said Protestant to him he wouldn't have had the foggiest idea what you were talking about.

He was a Roman Catholic and he was not alone in his detestation of what he saw as the absolute Violation of anything. It's good and proper in the sales of indulgences and so The theology behind it was that the Pope via the power of the keys has control over the thesaurus meritorium the treasury of merit and That in essence what happens is in an indulgence.

There is a withdrawal of Some of this excess merit or this member where this excess merit come from The excess merit comes from Jesus Mary and the Saints. Now if you just just stop there for just a moment.

Think about that with me for just a moment when I Listen.

To these I.

Don't I don't know how else to describe them. But but. Wide-eyed Childlike converts to Rome talking about the glories of the magisterium and. Then I asked them to read and I did this with a recent convert.

I'll let you figure out who it was. I asked them to read a document. You can find online easy to find on the Vatican website numerous copies of it around called indulgence yarum doctrina spelled like it sounds if you Have some Latin background indulge NTRM doctrina.

Read it. It is a modern post Vatican to apostolic Constitution on The revision of indulgences. It's the modern. It's the one that is quoted most often in the Universal Catholic Catechism so I don't believe that anyone can question the citation of it as being representative of Official Roman Catholic theology.

No question about it when they read that. You can get a real a real quick.

Easy.

Understanding of whether this person has has just completely abandoned all. Semblance of biblical thought whatsoever. If they go well, you know if the church says so. Because any person who has.

Well who has the Holy Spirit and.

Here's someone talking about the mixture of the merits of the sinless Son of God with Mary and the Saints as Something the church controls and can dole out to people. It's blasphemy. It is absolutely.

Satanic.

Blasphemy, that's the only way it can be described.

Don't sugarcoat it.

It's disgusting. It's reprehensible. Anybody who can promote that has no earthly idea About what it means to actually trust in Christ's merit alone. None. Never did never did I? Say to you call to confusion people.

We're trying to use words of wisdom and men's philosophies to entrap people Into that kind of blasphemy God will judge you. He will judge you. Severely, this kind of teaching is a blasphemy against Christ now you might say.

Oh. But as you yourself admitted Indulgent your arm is an apostolic Constitution on the revision of indulgences. Yes. You can't buy indulgences anymore, well not in the crass way that Tetzel was selling them.

No you cannot. There are all sorts of ways now that you can get indulgences By doing certain things on certain days and praying certain numbers of prayers and and all the rest of these things but the theology of the thesaurus meritorium the theology of the excess merit of Christ and the excess merit of Mary and the excess merit of the Saints has Not been denied.

How could it be? That's the that's the horrible thing.

About.

Transferring the infallible authority of The bridegroom to the bride because you see once you proclaim that the church Once you proclaim that the church is infallible there can be no Reformation of that church.

Because once that church has placed falsehood into the status of dogma Then it must be defended it must be defended. So the idea then at the time was that by purchasing this indulgence letter you were providing for the forgiveness of your sins and and we.

We know about the story that's told and you know, whether it happened or not. I don't know but The idea of well, there was a sliding scale by the way. There was a sliding scale of payment depending upon your status in the society so a a knight would pay one thing and a peasant would pay a you know, very small amount, but a Lord would pay much more.

I mean the people the upper end would pay much more than the people at the lower end. It was a well, it was similar to how the IRS does things today same level of corruption and unfairness, but anyway, so the story was told of a.

A.

Well-off German Who bought an indulgence and said that. He asked if he could buy an indulgence for his sin he had not yet committed and Tetzel allegedly said that he could especially seeing that he was a well-off man.

And so he purchased the indulgence. And then when Tetzel left town he and his knights Attacked Tetzel and beat him severely. And as he left he said this was the sin that I was contemplating committing.

So, hey, you know There you go so that kind of of gross sales of Indulgences were done away with at the Council of Trent and Further revisions of taking place over time, but the fact is the theology remains.

Oh now it has been Softened made a little less Offensive by only in its in its statements. But it's still there. In fact, there are more sections on indulgences in the catechism than I can find on justification.

It's still there the whole concept and here you have Pope Francis the the great evangelical Pope.

He washes people's feet.

He still believes in indulgences. What about. What about Galatians? Galatians 1 2. False brethren crept in. Didn't put up with him for an hour. Oh. So few today. Who have Paul's eagle eye? To the purity of the gospel the truth of the gospel.

So many who call themselves evangelicals today. Oh. Pope Francis, he's our friend. Don't agree with everything he says. Hmm amazing. So, yeah, I know. If you you know. Pray the prayers go to confession.

Follow the Vatican. Which includes following on Twitter? Then that's part of the process of gaining indulgence and I say to you any person who feels you need to gain indulgence does not know Christ and I repeat the words as Solemnly as they were said by the Apostle himself if you seek To be justified by circumcision.

If you think there's something you can do to add to what Christ has done He will be of no benefit to you. None. Stop playing stop playing. So a lot of people just got a a Chuckle the Pope and Twitter.

Ha indulgences on Twitter, really?

Yeah.

Indulgences on Twitter. But what it really tells us is that Rome continues. To not understand the gospel and not present the gospel and to enslave the millions who follow after its faults gospel. No question about it.

Nehemiah 9, John 6, and the Debate Over Prevenient Grace

All right. Well. Didn't know how long that would take but I figured I would start preaching eventually once we got around to it and the people.

In.

In the channel. Stopped distracting me. Gonna try to literally have maybe Six or seven minutes of the Calvinist call-in show. Left play. Let's see if we get through a little bit of it here. Going back to the Calvinist call-in show with Michael Brown.

Starting right where I said that I was gonna start before. In fact in Nehemiah the ninth chapter There's a specific word that's used for for God's drawing. And it's it's actually a word that the same word is used in the Greek there.

That's elsewhere used for God's drawing and that people would try to argue for For irresistible grace. And God specifically says he drew his people and they refused.

He drew his people and they refused now. I've never heard that argument before. I I think that it had Been a part of a real fast Portion of our debate maybe but at least when I heard it here I was able to look it up and What Michael is referring to and unusually he didn't give the reference just just gave Nehemiah 9.