John MacArthur's Nice Watch: Here's the Truth

Welcome to the program. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Justin Peters. I hope that you and your family are doing well today. I want to thank you very much for joining me. A couple of weeks ago, there was a little bit of a dust up on social media about John McArthur's nice watch.

This was begun by a tweet from Julie Roy's in which she put a link to this Instagram account entitled profits in watches, which is kind of a, again, I don't know if it's directly related to the preachers and sneakers, but there's a preachers and sneakers account that shows some of the extravagant clothing, shoes, shirts, jackets.

Apparently TD Jake's even has like a, a murse, I guess a man's purse or whatever. It's anyway, but kind of bizarre. But there's this account called profits and watches. It shows some of the very nice time pieces worn by a number of very prominent preachers.

Now for background, information back on February 3rd Julie Roy's wrote an article entitled the prosperous lifestyle of America's anti prosperity gospel preacher. And she talks about how McArthur has three homes.

Of course, he has his primary residence. Then he has a home in Colorado, but that home in Colorado is actually jointly owned between five families. Of course, McArthur and his wife Patricia and then his four children and their families.

It's so you know, you divvy that up five different ways. It's really not that extravagant. And they have that as just to have a place for the whole family to get together during the summer for a little while.

So, but then his second home, it comically joy, Julie Roy said that his second home is quote, just 11 miles from the beach. I'm sure when John McArthur opens his window at night, the sound of the waves crashing onto the shore is practically deafening from 11 miles away.

So Julie Roy's has been going after McArthur for quite a while and this is the latest little thing. And so background information this past weekend, Phil Johnson was speaking at Kootenai community church doing a seminar on Charles Spurgeon and we were all having dinner together one night and the issue of John McArthur's nice watch came up at the dinner table.

And so he gave me the real story behind John McArthur's nice watch. And I asked him if he would come on to the program and Phil, I am sorry for such a long introduction there. Sorry to keep you waiting, but thank you very much for joining me.

Hey, thanks for having me, Justin. It's always good to be with you.

The Origin of John MacArthur’s Watch and the Moon Landing

Yeah, it's great to have you feel great to have you. We really enjoyed the conference this past weekend. That was fun. It was, it was. Uh, uh, I learned a lot about Charles Spurgeon. Um, maybe one of these days I'll have you back on and get you to tell about the story of six year old Charles Spurgeon going into the, into the pub.

But, um, thank you for joining me, Phil. So Phil that night at a sweet lose, we were having dinner and something came up about John McArthur's nice watch and tell us what's the scoop with that. Oh, and yeah, go ahead.

Go ahead.

Yeah. You know, I missed the whole controversy with the Julie Royce. I saw references to it from other people, but I, you know, she blocked me a long time ago and I just stopped paying attention to her.

So I'm not sure what her complaint was. I haven't read her article if she wrote it or listen to whatever podcast she was dealing with it on. I don't know. But here's the background on that watch. That was a gift to John McArthur from the staff at Grace to You.

About two years ago, I think it was. Yeah, it was two years ago because he celebrated his 50th anniversary as pastor of Grace Community Church. His first Sunday at Grace sort of is the marking point for the beginning of Grace to You.

It was, uh, it was the first, first recording we have of his sermons was that Sunday. That was 1969 in February. And later that year, as you know, the astronauts, American astronauts landed on the moon for the first time.

Right. Uh, and so, uh, there's a watch that celebrates that. So it's linked to 1969. It's, uh, I, I forget, I think it's Omega watches or something like that, that, uh, and they call it the moon watch.

Uh, it's the watch. It's a replica of the watch that the astronauts wore to the moon in 1969. And since it had that connection with 1969, that's what we chose to give him for his anniversary gift. Uh, it cost us $5 ,000.

So, which is an expensive, it's more expensive watch than I would wear, but, uh, but okay. It's his 50th anniversary that averages out to a hundred dollars a year for his, his pastoral work and, uh, his work on behalf of grace to you.

So we felt it's a worthy gift. It had symbolic value. We gave it to him not realizing that, uh, it would be offensive to Julie Royce, but I don't regret that.

Yeah, nor should you, nor should you. And MacArthur has always had a bit of a, an interest in space,.

I guess you could say. Yeah, we have, uh, one of the American astronauts is a board member, uh, at here at grace to you. And, uh, another active astronaut is, uh, one of our, one of our good friends and a participant in our ministry.

So, you know, we've always had a sort of connection with, uh, astronauts in our managing director, Jay flowers is a space and aircraft aficionado. So he's also the one tasked with, you know, picking out special gifts like that.

He's really good at it. So it was his choice to get that watch. I affirmed it. Uh, the rest of our staff thought it was a good idea. And in fact, so far, everybody's thought it was a good idea except for Julie Royce.

But I would add that to a stack of bad opinions that she's expressed and it doesn't bother me a bit.

The Difference Between a Gift and Prosperity-Gospel Greed

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, yeah, and that's not a, as you said, average it out for 50 years, a hundred dollars a year. And, um, MacArthur began in February of 69, I believe the moon landing was July of 69.

I don't remember the date, maybe July 11th, something like that. And, um, Jeff Williams did a presentation at the truth matters conference a couple of years ago. That was very good. He showed some video footage of, um, that he took from the international space station.

Yeah. He has the record. Jeff Williams has the record, uh, has a couple of records. One is, I think he's taken more photographs from, uh, outer space than any other living individual. And in fact, his record may never be broken.

And, uh, he's also, I think he still holds the record for the most time spent in space. He's done two stints on the, uh, uh, on the international space station and also went up once in a shorter mission on the shuttle.

So he spent more time in space than any other American man. I think one of the female astronauts has actually broken his record of time in the space station by a few days. So, uh, but nevertheless, uh, we're, we, we love Jeff and his influence on our ministry.

And yeah, it just seemed like the moon watch was an appropriate thing to give John.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Very appropriate. And, um, and to MacArthur, I mean, Julie Royce, in fact, uh, someone pushed back on her. In fact, before we began the interview, I said that even some people who are not particularly fans of John MacArthur pushed back against Julie Royce because of the petty nature of this.

And, uh, Julie Royce said, quote, in response to one of these people who pushed back against her quote, no one objected when I tweeted preachers and sneakers, exposing the expensive shoes of folks like Steven Furtick and John Gray.

But when I do the same with MacArthur, there's backlash. Why the double standard?

Yeah. You know, I haven't cheered the, uh, preachers and sneakers website. I'm amused by it. And I think they make a lot of good points, but the Steven Furtick thing in particular, I remember that, uh, there's a picture of him wearing, as I, as I recall their white sneakers that cost about $800 designer speak sneakers, uh, by, by a company that I'd never even heard of.

It was like Christian Louboutin or something like that. So I looked it up and, uh, sure enough, those are $800 sneakers, which is again, more than I would pay for sneakers, but I have to congratulate him on his restraint.

That same company makes a pair of high top lace sneakers that sell for $3 ,300. So, uh, you know, you could be more extravagant than that, but all that is to say, I think there's a pettiness, even in that, in this, if your lead problem with Steven Furtick is that he spends too much money on his shoes, you're not really paying very close attention because his teaching and, and, uh, his character are significant issues and, and the shoes, maybe they're part of it in the sense that, uh, that's one aspect of his pathological obsession with the badges of earthly wealth and fame and, you know, evidence of the love of money.

But if you can't distinguish that from, you know, a man who wears a watch that was gifted to him, who's been faithful in ministry for 50 years and preach through every verse of the new Testament, uh, and you can't make any distinction between the two.

And apparently based on the thing you just read, she sees an absolute equivalence there. Uh, I would just say that says more about her lack of discernment than it does about the, either of the people that she's criticizing.

The Prosperity Gospel, False Teachers, and the Love of Money

Yeah, indeed. And, and not to mention, I think the biggest issue here in the, what she doesn't seem to realize is that almost all of these preachers that are featured on this preachers and sneakers and profit and watches their prosperity preachers, their theology is give to get so to reap, give me money.

God will bless you. Give me money. God will get you out of debt. Give me money. God will heal you of cancer. And that's how they have accrued their fabulous wealth. Okay. Dear ones. I took some screenshots from the profits and watches.

I thought you might be interested in some of these. This, this is by no means exhaustive. This is just a kind of a random sampling, but Rod Parsley has a $3 ,000 watch Jensen Franklin, which a lot of people don't think is word of faith, but he is, uh, 2 ,892 Brian Houston, the pastor of Hillsong church, 8 ,195.

And by the way, Hillsong is a theological cult. Uh, his wife, Bobby Houston, 5 ,699. So lagging a little behind her husband, uh, Stephen Furtick, $8 ,500, let's call it. Uh, Stephen Furtick is, Phil said, the biggest concern with him is not what he wears, but what he teaches.

Speaking of which T .D. Jakes is Stephen Furtick's idol in ministry. Stephen Furtick looks up to T .D. Jakes more than anyone else. And T .D. Jakes here is sporting a $39 ,500 time piece. And kind of like with Furtick, the biggest concern with T .D. Jakes is not what he wears.

It's what he teaches. He is a modalist. He denies the Trinity. Serial adulterer and disgraced pastor John Gray, but who was still in the pulpit sadly. Here he is with a $12 ,500 watch. David Crank, $33 ,989.

David Crank is truly one of the, one of the worst of the worst. If there's anyone more arrogant than Stephen Furtick, it would, it would be David Crank. Just unreal. Jesse Duplantis. Here's a couple of watches, $8850, $10 ,135.

Creflo Dollar, undoubtedly the most aptly named of the prosperity preachers. We'll call this watch $10 ,000. I mean, that's funny. Two cents, two cents shy of $10 ,000, but whatever. And tangentially here, what preacher poses like that?

I mean, he looks like he's getting ready to do a photo shoot for the cover of GQ. I mean, who does that? No true preacher. I can say that. That is. And while I'm thinking about it, if you if you notice all of the individuals that I've been mentioning here, I think I can safely say all of them.

When you look at the books that they've written, every single one of them has a big picture of himself or herself on the cover, every one of them. Now, John MacArthur has written, I don't know, 65, 70 books, at least thereabouts.

And on nary a one of them will you find a picture of himself? I think the only book that has a picture of John MacArthur on the cover of it would be his biography that was written by Ian Murray, was not, of course, written by John.

So that's a pretty good rule of thumb. If you're looking through the bookstore or looking through a Christian book magazine or whatever, and you happen to notice that on the cover of all the books written by said author is a big picture of himself or herself, that's a pretty good indication that you probably shouldn't be reading that book.

But I digress. And here's one for 25 grand. Joseph Prince, who is also a word of faith, 64 .99. Bill Johnson, 37 .60. And Pastor Kim Jones Patie, Pastor Kim. Now, there's your first problem. There's your first problem.

A female pastor. That's that's another video maybe for another time. But 93 .78. John Hagee. A lot of people don't think John Hagee is word of faith. He absolutely is. Thirteen thousand four hundred. Here's Kenneth Copeland.

And this is a picture of Kenneth Copeland with Bill Johnson. Now, Kenneth Copeland is more classic word of faith. Bill Johnson is more classic New Apostolic Reformation. But you see these two movements, even though there's a bit of a distinction, they're just melding together and becoming one heretical theological stream.

And they cross pollinate with each other and speak at each other's conferences. But here's a watch. 36 .99. Here's another picture. Forty three. Seventy five. Here's another picture. Ninety five hundred.

Now, a lot of these pastors of quote unquote that are featured on this website, they have multiple, multiple pictures. So it's not just one nice watch as you're seeing, I think. And here's one for 13 .4.

Ninety nine. So he's got a lot of money in wristwatches, not to mention his private jets and biplanes that he flies around just for fun and ski boats and all that kind of stuff. I've actually sat in Kenneth Copeland's private jet before.

Maybe I'll tell that story sometime. Benny Hinn. Benny Hinn. Fifteen nine fifty. And here's one for just under twenty two thousand dollars. Ed Young, Jr. Now, Ed Young, Jr. is theoretically not word of faith, but Ed Young, Jr. is kind of one of the worst of the worst when it comes to the seeker sensitive approach to doing church, the market driven approach to church.

Ed Young, Jr. is honestly, I don't I don't know how someone who has been saved more than about 20 minutes could sit under his preaching. It's just horrific. But here's one for seventeen three. Ninety nine.

Here's one for fifteen seven. Ninety five. Now, he should be fined fifteen thousand seven hundred ninety five dollars for wearing those glasses. And here's another watch. Thirty eight thousand one ninety eight.

So, I mean, friends, add that up. That is I mean, my goodness. You're talking multiple, multiple, multiple tens of thousands of dollars just in watches. So a lot of people don't think of Ed Young, Jr. as a prosperity preacher, but Rodney Howard Brown.

Fifty nine. Twenty five. Twenty three. Eight. Forty five. And Guillermo Maldonado, I must say, he's probably at least from what I could tell from this website, he's probably got the most money in time pieces.

I actually went to his church several years ago and called out some of the staff in the bookstore as false prophets. I've accused them of faking signs and wonders, which they did. Again, another video.

But here's Guillermo Maldonado. Twenty thousand three. Ninety seven. Twenty four to fifty. Thirty nine thousand five. Twenty fifty thousand nine. Ninety nine. And then the most expensive watch, at least that I saw.

Seventy four thousand five hundred dollars. I didn't even know until like I was today years old when I learned that they even made watches that cost that much money. I didn't even know such a thing existed.

And maybe there's some that cost more. I don't know. So anyway, when you when you look at all this, that that five thousand dollar watch that was given as a gift, 50 year anniversary gift, no less to John MacArthur.

Yeah, kind of pales in comparison, does it not?

Biblical Warnings Against the Love of Money and Faithful Stewardship

Yeah. You have to remember that what scripture says is is the root of all evil is the love of money, right? And what it criticizes and false teachers is greed. The idea of gathering things for themselves and reveling in the badges of wealth and prosperity.

And and that's what's that's what's evil. And you have to make a distinction between a preacher who's only in it for the money and someone like, say, Charles Spurgeon. We talked about him at length this weekend.

And one of the issues he dealt with was he had a considerable income from the sale of his sermons of the sale of his books. And and nobody knew what he did with that money because it wouldn't have been righteous for him to, you know, blow a trumpet every time he gave alms.

But he started an orphanage and a pastor school. And what people didn't know until after long after he was dead was that he also single handedly supported a number of widows. Yeah. And so he was a very charitable man.

The only thing Spurgeon ever spent money on for himself was books. And he had he had a considerable library that was worth quite a lot of money. But this isn't the sort of extravagance that Scripture condemns.

And Scripture doesn't condemn Job or Abraham for their wealth or Joseph in the Old Testament. These are men who lived in wealth and Scripture doesn't condemn them for it. What Scripture condemns, again, is the love of money.

And I've I've been in and around John MacArthur and his family for 40 years. And no one could righteously accuse him of being afflicted with the love of money. I also happen to know privately what he does with a lot of a lot of the resources he gets from book royalties and and, you know, his various salaries.

And again, no one could condemn him for his stewardship. He'll answer to the Lord for that. And I think the Lord will say, well done.

Yeah, indeed. I do as well. And I and I hear that from people who know him. I don't know him, of course, nearly like you do and others do. But I know people who do know him that well. And I've spent time with him and to a man, every single person, every single man that I've been around who knows John MacArthur well.

They all say that about him, that he's very generous.

I've never known anyone more generous than he is or more tenderhearted in the way he helps people in need. And again, I don't want to rob him of his heavenly reward by detailing any of that. You'll just have to take my word for it.

And. Yeah, you know, if you if you still want to keep throwing criticisms at him over the Internet, then then you'll answer to the Lord for that.

So indeed. Absolutely. All right. And this was a gift, right? It's not like John went out and bought it for what was he supposed to do? Give it back?

I mean, you know, so you could sell it on eBay and then donate the money to. What was it Judas said? Because this was Judas's attitude. Remember when the woman anointed Jesus feet with an expensive vial of perfume?

It was Judas who raised a question about the propriety of that. Right. So, you know, that's that has long been the sort of complaint that miscreants use as well.

So indeed. Good point. Good point. All right. Well, Phil, thank you for your time, brother. I appreciate it.

Hey, always good to see you. Let's let's talk about something really good next time, OK? We'll do it. All right.

We will do that. I love you, brother. Love you, too, Phil. God bless you. Thank you. Bye. OK, dear ones. Well, I hope this was helpful for you. Not that any of you watching had any serious questions about MacArthur's integrity, but, you know, these things come up and then I hear the true story and I thought it might be helpful for you to know it as well.

So and as a closing note, just in case Julie Roys or anyone else was wondering what kind of watch I have. This is my profit watch, I guess you could say. This is a citizen timepiece Eco Drive Skyhawk.

And then it says WR200. I don't know what the WR stands for. Wide receiver. Probably not that. But this this watch is worth, I think, between five and six hundred dollars. But this watch, like MacArthur's watch, was a gift to me.

In fact, it was a very special gift because my wife, Kathy, got me this watch as a wedding gift just about 11 years or so ago now. And you know what? I wouldn't trade this watch for Guillermo Maldonado's $70 ,000 watch, even if it was offered to me.

I would turn it down because gifts mean something. They have sentimental value. This watch has sentimental value to me because of the one who gave it to me. And MacArthur's watch is the same way. It's a sad state of affairs when people want to go after faithful men in the ministry to make a name for themselves.

That's a pretty sad state of affairs. Now, to be sure, there are a lot of charlatans and wolves out there, obviously, given that for which I'm most well known and what I do. Sure, there are. But John MacArthur ain't one of them.

OK, dear friends, thank you very much for watching. Until our next time together, may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of his Holy Spirit be with you all.

I got a slight problem here. I don't have the forty two fifty. You have seventeen dollars and a good much. No, I don't. I have. I have two dollars and an Acacio. I'm going to have to say good night.