November 6, 2017 Show with Tim Fancher and Larry Pratt on “Biblically Ordained Measures to Protect Your Church From Assassins, Terrorists, Violent Criminals & Madmen”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this sixth day of November 2017. Some of you were expecting Nate Pickowitz to be on the program today to discuss Why We're Protestant, a new book that he has written.

He was also going to give some personal reflections as a pastor on the horrific massacre that took place just yesterday at a Baptist church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. But providentially, Pastor Nate Pickowitz had an unforeseen conflict with his schedule, so he had to postpone his interview.

And today we are going to be spending the full two hours addressing a very important and timely theme in the aftermath of that massacre. We're going to be discussing biblically ordained measures to protect your church from assassins, terrorists, violent criminals, and madmen.

And for the first hour, our guest to discuss this topic will be Tim Fancher, founder of Psalm 144 Church Protection Seminars and American Street Edge Self-Defense Systems. He's a fourth degree black belt in American Kenpo Karate with over 30 years of martial arts experience.

He's a former police officer and a recognized expert in church security, personal protection, and children's abduction prevention. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first.

Time to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Tim Fancher. Well, first of all, tell our listeners something.

About Psalm 144 Church Protection Seminars and American Street Edge Self-Defense Systems, and then we'll go into how the Lord providentially used circumstances in your own life and your own.

Experiences to lead you to found these very organizations. Well, I've been a professor since 1999, and I've run everything from full-time schools and two different schools.

Could you repeat that phrase you used, pain restraint or something like that, if you could? And also not only repeat it, but explain it, define it. What was that again? I apologize. You said that you use pain.

Restraint techniques, I think is what you said, perhaps. And by the way, I'm going to give out our.

Email address, so if anybody in the audience would like to join in on the conversation and ask questions of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA, and please only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter over which you are asking.

That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Tell us about American Kempo Karate. What's.

Unique about that form of martial art? Well, it was Newt Parker, and I've been training in that since September of 1989, actually, and it was designed as a street dancing through the ranks at a long time ago.

When I was in, I was getting more violent. This was back in 2000. I just envisioned a more streamlined system, where if someone, what we just kind of call, after, you know, one seminar, what I call America teaches the physiological and the psychological effects of fear of the body, and so I'll teach them the different strikes, and then I use an F.

In fact, if you could, read Psalm 144 to us so our listeners all know why you used that name to identify your ministry or your organization. So, let's say there is a pastor or even a church member listening to today's program.

They are totally fascinated, intrigued, and enthusiastic about what you are offering, and they call you up. They say, Tim, we would love to have you come out to our church to conduct a seminar. Tell us exactly, obviously in summary form, what will be going on at that seminar and what that will,.

What costs will be required for these seminars and that sort of thing. Now, going back, I'm.

Assuming then that there will be fluctuating or a range of fees required that would depend upon how large the church is and how far you are traveling and things like that. Perhaps there are different levels of a seminar that a church can have conducted for them.

Give us more details.

About that. And let's see, we have a listener in White Plains, New York, RJ, who asks,.

What are the legal liabilities that are at risk when someone from a church may wrongly cause injury to an individual that they suspected was a violent criminal but turned out to be something else? Perhaps the person had epilepsy or was doing something that was completely innocuous and harmless and was viewed in a different way than it really was intended to be.

Or was involuntarily occurring. Well, not just like that. I had organized, I should say,.

A number of years ago, a theological debate, one of many theological debates that I have organized, public moderated debates. And this was a debate between a Christian, my friend for many years, going back to 1995, Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

He debated an imam in New York City of a very predominant popular mosque amongst the Muslim community in New York. And this debate was held in a very large old church in Ridgewood, Queens, New York. And I remember that I was standing at the doorway as people were filing in, and there was this man who had been for over an hour pacing back and forth, behaving very oddly, hiding behind a tree and ducking his head back and forth from behind the And he was not fitting the description of what you might stereotypically think a Muslim would look like.

That doesn't mean necessarily that he wasn't a Muslim, but he was a Caucasian male dressed in normal American outfit, you know, attire. But the thing that was very unusual about him is that he was carrying on his hip a very long sword.

So I was getting ready to call 911. And then he approached the doorway of the church. He was online. And I stopped him. And I said to him, I'm sorry, you can't bring that in here. Were you kidding me?

You're bringing a sword into a debate between a Christian and a Muslim? And he said, it's not a sword, man. And I said, well, what is it then? He says it's an umbrella. So I said, well, show me. And he pulled out the umbrella from the sheath.

It was intentionally, obviously designed to look like a sword, but it was an umbrella. I said, well, you can't even bring that in here because people are going to think it's a sword. And this is a very sensitive theological debate between Muslims and Christians.

I'm not going to permit you're going to have to give that to me and you can reclaim it at the end of the event. And he very grudgingly did that. But that's kind of an obvious thing. Seeing somebody carrying a sword into your church, especially after they were pacing back and forth for about an hour across the street and hiding behind a tree.

Now, what are some of the things that might not be as obvious as that, that people should be looking out for? In fact, since we have to go to our first break, I'm going to have you answer that when we return from the break, but things that the average Christian, the average parishioner, congregant, however you want to describe the average person, in addition to the pastors and elders and deacons, what they should be looking out for when it comes to someone who may be about to cause trouble.

And some of these things are unavoidable because some people can conceal their motives very cleverly and successfully. But perhaps you could give us some helpful hints after we return from the break. If anybody would like to join the listeners who have already emailed us, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

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Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune into A Visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 pm Eastern Time on WLIE Radio, www .wlie540am .com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the Pastor's Study by calling in with your questions.

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Needs a pastor. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in. The first guest that we have today on the program is Tim Fancher, and Tim Fancher is the founder and director of Psalm 144 Church Protection Seminars and American Street Edge Self-Defense Systems.

He's a fourth-degree black belt in American Kenpo Karate with over 30 years of martial arts experience. He's a former police officer and a recognized expert in church security, personal protection, and children's abduction prevention.

In the second hour, we're going to be joined by Larry Pratt, P-R-A-T-T. As seen on Fox News, he's executive director emeritus at Guns Owners of America, and he is going to be addressing the same theme that we are addressing with Tim Fancher, biblically ordained measures to protect your church from assassins, terrorists, violent criminals, and madmen.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com, and forgive me for being a bit frazzled today and tongue-tied, but we were having technical difficulties before the program started.

It all had to do, we found out, with the daylight savings time changing the time that our program airs, so it kind of messed up the system there in Texas that live streams our show. But so I'm a bit frazzled still, but I think I'm handling the situation fairly adequately.

Anyway, the question I asked you, Tim, before the break, especially since you are a former police officer, there should be, I'm assuming, things that you would know from your experience about, like for instance, if you were standing guard at some particular event, even if it wasn't a church service, you might be trained to be on the lookout for certain peculiar activities, behaviors, appearances that might trigger in your mind this person may very likely be up to no good or have violent intentions.

What might some of those things be if there are any that are.

Foolproof, or not foolproof, but as close to foolproof as you can possibly have? And I'm.

Assuming that churches who begin to lean toward starting this volunteer security team, it would be very wise, a no-brainer, to find out who amongst the congregation and the leadership might already know, or it might be even well known to everybody.

I'm assuming that the first choice would be those who are either active or retired police officers.

And military, and even... Oh, of course. And we have Bibi from Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who asks,.

Is there any instinctual things that you learned from your training as a police officer that you had to unlearn to be an expert in your current field since, as you said, there can be very.

Different things about being a police officer than a security guard? Well, we are running out.

Of time, and we have to go to our break at 54 minutes into the hour. So if you could, please summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners in about.

Three minutes' time. Well, thank you so much, especially for being available at such a very.

Short notice before our program today when we found out that Nate Pikowitz, our originally scheduled guest, had to postpone due to an unforeseen schedule conflict. So I want to make sure that our listeners have your contact information.

First of all, the website is psalm144 .org, psalm144 .org. Do you have any other contact information that you care to give, Tim? Amen. Well, thank you very much. That's psalm144 .org, psalm144 .org. Thank you, Tim Fancher, and we look forward to an opportunity to have you on the program again.

Thank you, and don't go away because coming up during the second hour of the program, we have Larry Pratt joining us as seen on Fox News. Larry Pratt, Executive Director Emeritus of Gun Owners of America, and we're going to be continuing the theme, Biblically Ordained Measures to Protect Your Church from Assassins, Terrorists, Violent Criminals, and Mad Men.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. God willing, we will be right back after these messages with Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America.

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By the way, they also have a toll-free number, 800 -656 -0231. 800 -656 -0231 is the toll-free number for cvbbs .com. Before we introduce our second guest for the day, who is Larry Pratt, as seen on Fox News, he is Executive Director Emeritus of Gun Owners of America, who will be continuing our discussion on Biblically Ordained Measures to Protect Your Church from Assassins, Terrorists, Violent Criminals, and Madmen.

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We could truly use them, I should say. Well, now we are launching into our second hour with our second guest today, Larry Pratt, as seen on Fox News. He is Executive Director Emeritus of Gun Owners of America, and we are continuing the theme that we began in the first hour with our first guest, Tim Fancher of Psalm 144 Church Protection Seminars, the theme being Biblically Ordained Measures to Protect Your Church from Assassins, Terrorists, Violent Criminals, and Madmen.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Larry Pratt.

Hi, Chris, thanks for having me back.

Oh, it's excellent to have you back. Obviously, we wish it could be under better circumstances because usually the door is open for a guest like you when there is a horrific nationally or globally notorious event, such as the one that was experienced by the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, Texas yesterday during their morning worship service, where nearly 30 people were murdered by a crazed gunman.

And I'm sure we're still not up to date completely on who this person was and his motives and so on. But one thing that happens every time these things occur, as you well know, Larry, we will hear from people, not only notorious liberals in the media who are blaming guns rather than the evil hearts of wicked men for things that happen like this, but we also are perhaps surprised from time to time to hear from our own brothers in Christ, even those that are theologically nearly identical to us in many respects, but who will say that to think that the protection of our lives and the lives of our loved ones using firearms, that somehow, they think, is un-Christlike.

It really militates against the gentle and compassionate and selfless spirit of the Christian described in the Bible. And of course, as you know, Matthew 5, 38 -40 is something that is frequently brought up.

In fact, it's instinctively, I think, the first thing that those who would be in opposition to using firearms to protect yourself or those you love, the verse which reads, You have heard it was said, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

But I say to you, do not resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. And we'll get into that in a moment.

But before we have you exegete that text and talk about other pertinent things to our discussion, tell our listeners about Gun Owners of America.

Well, Chris, we lobby the primary mission of the Congress and thus to respect the Second Amendment, the ability of a nevermind to that admonition.

Well, tell us something about you personally so our listeners know exactly whom is speaking. There are a lot of Republicans and conservatives, perhaps even conservative Democrats and independents, who are all in favor of the freedoms of gun owners in this country and are firm defenders of the Second Amendment, but they are devoid of the Holy Spirit or any relationship to Christ and his church.

You, on the other hand, are a firmly committed Christian. And if you could tell us something about your background and what led you into this area of coming to the point where you were the director of Gun Owners of America.

I've been working on constitutional actions by the politicians, and it became evident, especially after I became an elder from a biblical, I believe it's 1999, one time word trinity in the scripture, either about the use of lethal force, lethal force in self-defense, in defense of innocent life.

But obviously the availability changed the fact that you had to use that.

Well, let's go to that classic text that I read from Matthew 5, 38 through 40. It is the go-to text, even when non-Christians, not only Christians use that, but you'll have people who are obviously using the name of Jesus Christ to try to defend a point or an agenda that they're trying to make.

They try to turn Jesus Christ into a figure from history that is purely about love and being devoid of all wrath and anger and righteous indignation, and a God who is, or a figure, who is merely a passive person who believes that we should never use force of any kind to defend ourselves or loved ones.

In fact, as you probably remember, it shocked many of us and disturbed many of us in the theologically reformed community, conservative Calvinistic community, when somebody that we look up to, John Piper, basically said that if his wife and family were being attacked and being murdered, he would not use violent force to stop them because that would ensure that they would enter hell if he were to kill them.

And many of us were shaking our heads in disbelief and frustration with Brother Piper, but if you could, how do you respond to things like Matthew 5 and things like what John Piper had said?

The idea that we try to diffuse a situation by turning the other cheek has nothing to do with the defense of innocent life that's being threatened, be as it may. That was a situation that was extremely legitimate.

Wilbur Ford, a bagged down, and he's running along after having grabbed a magazine and a handful of ammo, and he's loading the magazine and is able to tween the body protection armor by the dirt bag, bring him over and responsible for his demise.

Yeah, I heard that that was still a theory that may have been what happened, that the good citizen had fired a gun, and perhaps it was still a theory that that shot may have ended the life of the perpetrator.