The Political Objective of Enemies Within the Church

Conversations That Matter

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00:00

All right, Judge Saul, thank you for being back on the

00:05

Conversations That Matter podcast with me. I have a really quick question before we get started with talking about the movie and social justice and so forth.

00:15

It's a yes or no question, frankly, so a yes or no will do. Have you gotten woke yet?

00:23

That's the first part of it. And then tied to that is, do you still discriminate against left -handed people and introverts?

00:33

I know you have a lot of extrovert privilege. So a yes or no will do, I think.

00:38

Yes, I have a total disdain for introverts because they don't get anything done. And then

00:45

I definitely, left -handed people, just let me tell you, there's something completely odd about them.

00:51

And I'm very woke to the fact that we need to be doing more to combat the left -handed and the left -handed introverts.

01:02

There's nothing worse than a left -handed introvert. They don't have a lot of privilege. Everything is made for right -handed people.

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And I mean, think about job interviews. It's very intimidating for an introverted person to even go into a situation like that.

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Whereas extroverts, they'll do job interviews all day. And so those who have jobs, who have climbed that corporate ladder, a lot of them are extroverts.

01:23

A lot of them are right -handed. I don't think that's a coincidence. I might be a conspiracy person, but...

01:32

No, I'm all for extrovert power. Yeah, wait till we make that one of the segments of intersectionality, introverted left -handed people.

01:44

Anyway, Judd, where can people go to find you? Well, we'll just start the plug first. You're making this film,

01:50

Enemies Within the Church. Where can they find out more about the film? They can go to www .EnemiesWithinTheChurch

01:56

.com, www .EnemiesWithinTheChurch .com. And we had a discussion about a week ago about funding for Christian institutions coming from left -wing groups.

02:10

And I had to take the video down. Why don't you explain? Because you're the one that asked me to take it down for a little bit.

02:16

But now it's back up with a minor edit. Why did you want me to take it down?

02:21

Because there's a lot of people that have been asking me that question. Because one of our inside sources was approached and threatened with legal action and had contacted me and said, hey, you need to, before you go on podcasts and start talking about certain things, we got to make sure that we have all our source documentation readily available for when we start outing certain things.

02:52

I think it's more error on the side of precaution. And these particular people have been giving us a lot of inside information.

03:00

And the other danger is, is that it's very easy for me to come out with new discovered information and just kind of share with everybody what's going on.

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But however it is, when we do these things, believe it or not, there are people that are following us.

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There are people that are watching what we are doing. And when they see what we are doing, they adapt their strategies and try to start covering stuff up and try to essentially inoculate what we're going to expose.

03:30

So it's just an error of precaution that we have to be very careful about what we're doing and what we say and not give out too much just yet.

03:38

Because believe it or not, I mean, this movie is called Enemies Within for a reason, and they do not like what we are doing.

03:45

I did want to ask you, though, how the film is going. I mean, you're out there, you're talking to Christian leaders, you're trying to get them on camera.

03:53

What's the kind of response that you're getting there on the ground? The response is for the people that know and understand what is going on, they understand what we are up against, understand the threat.

04:04

They are fully supportive and 100 percent behind us. And they are willing to come on camera and talk.

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There are those, however, that have agreed to come on camera that we've interviewed that are still have one foot in and one foot out.

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And they're still so cautious about what is going on because people need to understand.

04:27

The money that is influencing and that is behind this movement is huge.

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And I'm talking people that are coming on camera are literally risking everything they have in their ministry.

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And their jobs for speaking out against this. And I don't think people quite understand and grasp it.

04:49

This is not just a, you know, is social justice theologically correct or not?

04:55

Oh, I don't know. No, we're talking about livelihoods are at stake for those that are fighting this.

05:01

And that is how people really need to grasp this. This is just not those guys over there. There are enemies within that are threatening the careers of people.

05:10

Yeah. Yeah. I have seen a little bit of that just from my own experience, but I'm sure it's a small taste compared to what you've been uncovering lately.

05:19

And so I wanted to ask you, you had said that some are on the fence and some are obviously very supportive.

05:27

I'm not going to ask you to name names, obviously, but can you kind of give me an idea, like maybe a percentage? Okay. You know, most of the people that you go to, are they hesitant or is that a small minority?

05:39

I would say 90 percent of our elite, 90 percent of the people that are giving us the information from inside do not want to be public on this.

05:48

Wow. And I, the inside of me just wants to say, hey, it's this person that's talking to me.

05:55

These are very well -known people who have huge ministries that are talking to us behind closed doors and saying, hey, this is where you should look.

06:09

Yeah. This is where to go, but they will not come out publicly and do it just yet.

06:15

And we have been told by these people that we hope your film, they hope our film is the catalyst that busts the door wide open and then people will follow.

06:29

And back up what we are saying, but they need that catalyst to break through and you guys would be shocked at who's talking to us.

06:39

Yeah. Yeah. How are you doing as far as finances? I'm sure you need more donations, but have things been going well in that department?

06:49

Have you? No, no, we're, we are so far behind, we are so far behind.

06:54

Um, yeah, our budget is $300 ,000 to do the film and we've only raised 50.

07:01

Okay. So if you're listening to this or watching, then please consider making a donation.

07:07

You can go to the website that Judge just mentioned. I think even if you just Google enemies within the church, that'll probably all come up.

07:15

Facebook, Twitter. I'm like, where are you on social media? Are you on social media? Yeah, you are.

07:21

Okay. I know Facebook, but Facebook .com slash, uh, the enemies within.

07:27

Yeah. Um, uh, and you know, our website, www .enemieswithinthechurch .com and I'm on Facebook, Judd Saul.

07:34

Uh, if you guys have any questions, look me up. But here's, here's the funny thing is, is if 300 people got together and each donated a thousand dollars, we'd have the film funded.

07:43

We'd be done by now. Right. But what we're, what I'm dealing with and you're, you're going to love this. Um, I'll break this cause

07:49

I haven't talked to you about this. So I was at a very high, uh, I was at a gathering of very high powered influential people in the

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Christian conservative movement. And, uh, uh, these are supposed to be the leaders and the watchmen and the people that are supposed to be the heads of watching what is coming and what is going on within our country and watching what's going on in, in, uh,

08:17

Christianity and also in, in politics. And the thing that surprises me the most is, is that these leaders of very large, famous organizations have no clue what is going on and, uh, have, and have the nerve to, uh, approach me and say, well, don't you think enemies within the church is too harsh of a name?

08:44

Have you, have you considered going to some of these organizations? They probably don't know that they're, that, uh, that they're really dealing with Marxist ideas.

08:54

Yeah. And I, I, I look at them and I respond to them and say, here's our proof.

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Here's who's funding them and how much and how and where these are behind closed doors meetings. And they just get so shocked and they just distance themselves from what we're doing because they don't want to get in the conflict.

09:12

Yeah. And that's unfortunately not just with your film, but in general, an attitude that, um, uh, wanting to run from conflict, uh, the, the kind of the peace faker, uh, drawing on Ken Sandy's word in his book, the peacemaker, but that, that mentality of just wanting to avoid it.

09:29

Um, a lot of evil men and women get away with things because, uh, of people who won't speak the truth, uh, evil should be exposed, right?

09:38

And that what Ephesians says is that what Paul said, expose the deeds of darkness. And that's what you're doing in this. And I'm, I'm so grateful that you're, you're brave enough to take this on.

09:47

Um, I was hoping we could survey a little bit, the, the landscape out there because, uh, like the

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Christian landscape, as far as what's going on, like to get a bird's eye view. So, um, right now, uh, the

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Methodist church, of course, in this country is in the middle of yet compromising again on the issue of, uh, homosexuality.

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And I believe transgenderism, um, I'm sure you're watching this more closely than I am. Um, um, I think most people that are truly saved, uh, that believe in biblical authority, repentant of their sins, trusted in Christ, and they're trying to live the

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Christian life. They look at that and they say, okay, well, that's not really the church. That's, uh, you know, obviously they're, they're compromising to such a degree that this is outside.

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I mean, I'd hope at least they recognize that this is outside the scope of orthodoxy. Right. Um, you know, maybe like the

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Jim Wallace's of the world, you know, world council of churches and so forth. We can look at that and say, okay, the gospels have been compromised in these organizations.

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So they're, they're calling themselves Christians on some level, but okay. They're not really Christians. Uh, and so there's that angle, uh, to it.

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And I think you're covering that in the film, right? These more liberal denominations that I'm using that word.

10:59

Um, as it's my only word I really can think of the, to use, but then we have these, we have the

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Southern Baptist convention, we have the PCA, um, and, and I don't know what other, I'm sure there's other, uh, evangelical, uh, denominations and organizations.

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Of course, we've talked here about gospel coalition and, uh, even desiring God to some extent.

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And we've said, okay, there, there's, um, there's some questionable funding in some of these organizations.

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There's a questionable teaching going on. Last time we talked about economy and network and Tim Keller.

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And so, so there's, there's that. Um, and we look at these organizations and I'm speaking for the average

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Joe who is not paying really close attention, just wants to live his life for the

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Lord. And we say, well, they have good statements of faith. The gospel seems to be there.

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They're not in crazy land. They're not saying that we should, um, you know, have a homosexual priests or bishops or, you know, they're, they're, they're

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Orthodox. Uh, they're not throwing out the word of God. But a lot of the work that you've done has been in these more, we'll call them conservative, evangelical, trustworthy, we would think organizations.

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And that's what makes it hard to digest. Yeah. It's very, very easy to point to the obvious left and say,

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Hey, look, those guys are the enemies. Right. Those are the guys are the enemies. Oh, look at how bad they are.

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Look at the crazy kooks endorsing, uh, abortion and praying for abortions and, and, and, you know, and waving rainbow flags above their churches.

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We pretty much know they're not obvious, right? It's, it's very easy to spot that.

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So here's the question that I have given this is the, the bird's eye view or looking across the

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Christian landscape. What are the issues? Uh, I'm, I'm talking about ideas, not funding, but what are the ideas that are, um, like, you know, immigration reform maybe, or, uh, you know, is there being soft on homosexuality, um, but not going overboard to say that it's, you know, he's still saying it's a sin, but let's, let's just be nice and, you know, uh, accommodate homosexuality somehow, or, um, you know, and the list could go on, but what are the, the issues, uh, that you see affecting like the

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PCA, the SBC, and these more evangelical conservative groups, you have to understand if you were to infiltrate the conservative institutions, if you were to really target and infiltrate the conservative institutions, you have to do it at a very snails, slow pace, little by little by little by little to win them over, uh, get them to like you.

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And then you start twisting things from within to start adapting to, you know, watering down homosexuality, uh, getting people to think that Jesus was a socialist refugee immigrant, and you start putting that language in slowly, but surely people get enough people to buy into it.

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And then that enables you to fraction and split things off. This is no different than what happened in the early

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United Methodist camp. This is no different than what happened with the ELCA Lutherans 20 years ago.

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The same strategy is just taking hold now in our, what we thought were once very safe conservative institutions.

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Uh, to, to buy into the whole liberal program, what's the one issue right now that you'd say that's the top one that's being used?

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Race. Race. It always, it always starts with race to LGBTQ.

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And then you throw in the mix immigration. These are the three big ones.

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And what you see is that you see the gospel coalition. You see Tim Keller, you see these guys using the exact same talking points as the left.

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Word for word. Yeah. Now they're not doing that on accident. They have a playbook that they're following that came from somewhere.

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And so it all, it starts with race. Then once you buy into the race thing, then immediately follows the gay thing.

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And then you have your political objective, which is immigration, which is actually where all the money's at.

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That's what I was trying to get to. So you think immigration is kind of the issue then that's, uh, politically, that's why people are motivated.

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Leftward groups to fund. They don't have a stake in Christianity. They don't care about Christianity, but they'll fund this because illegal immigration is what's at stake for them.

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That is the end political goal. Okay. Okay. So, and like I said, this is not my words.

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This is their words. And I'll just say this, and I'll ask you this question. Who does the left blame for the election of Donald Trump?

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White middle -class evangelicals from the South and Midwest fly over country.

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Yeah. Okay. So if I have a political opponent and a political force that I need to deal with, what is the best strategy to neutralize that base?

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So they trust the church. And so if you go to a trusted source and change what that source is saying, then they're going to trust whatever the new, uh, idea that's coming through is, you know, they'll, they'll, they'll follow a leftward direction if the source that they trust is going in that direction too.

17:01

So it makes sense. So we, so we as Christians need to ask the political question, not the theological question.

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Okay. We have a, we have a lot of apologists. We have a lot of different people talking about why social justice isn't biblical, why, uh,

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LGBTQ isn't biblical, but it doesn't matter because all they're trying to do is drag you into the weeds to debate these topics in and out, in and out, in and out.

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At the same time, they are achieving their political objective. Okay. There's a saying that the left uses or the communist use and it's called, and it says, the issue is never the issue.

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The issue is only a means to a revolution. So let's talk tactics for a minute, a strategy.

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Uh, so you're not saying that we should not debate these things, right?

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I mean, there should, we should point out the errors in social justice. Yes. Um, but you're saying that's not the primary conversation or at least the only conversation that we should be having.

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So what's the conversation that we should be having if we're concerned about this? The conversation that people should be thinking about is, okay, let's say we go soft on homosexuality.

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We go fully embrace social justice and critical race theory. Let's embrace all these things, right?

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Brace let's embrace immigration. Let's bring as many Muslims into the United States as possible.

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Let's bring in. Okay. Now let's ask the question. Who wins?

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If all these objectives are achieved, if all these objectives are achieved, who wins and what does that world look like?

18:46

Well, the democratic party would be number one in my mind. That would mean they'd have a, an effective majority for the foreseeable future if they have, they can just have a, you know, a permanent class of people that will vote for them and it overwhelms the rest of the citizens.

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And so, um, so there's a political or pragmatic sort of a shade to all of this or aspect, so, um, so, so as what you're saying, then we need to be thinking pragmatically and looking at the sources.

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Where's the funding coming from? And then like, kind of like a, we would do with a garden hose, like shut off, uh, the source and point out.

19:31

So, so how do we do that though? Because, you know, I'm, I'm Joe in Oklahoma and driving my pickup truck and, uh, you know, trying to fix, you know, fix things for a living or whatever.

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Like, how am I going to go up against open societies or one of these leftist organizations? Well, it's for the first things first is we have to clean up our own camp first.

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And this is the, this is the purpose of doing the movie is to, is it not just, is to one, correct the error biblically.

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We are addressing this in the film. We're addressing the theological problems in our film. But simultaneously people have to address the political problem and understand what they are up against.

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And it's very naive for Christians to think that this can't happen to them. Right. Um, I, I don't know if you saw my

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Facebook post, but I've been reading a book called AA 1025. It's a memoirs of a

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Russian agent that was planted in Catholic seminaries.

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Okay. 1025 was his agent number, but that number also meant he was the 1025th agent that was planted in seminaries.

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And they were called anti -apostles. They are that dedicated.

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Wow. And they have been doing this since the 1930s.

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So you can't tell me that an ideologue who wants to neutralize and, uh, uh, and kill

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God, kill Christianity, why they wouldn't want to get into our most sacred institutions and circles.

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Because they want to neutralize it. They want to neutralize our effectiveness. And frankly, if we don't have a church, if we don't have morality in the

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United States, there is no more United States. And they all say this, this is their own words.

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Yeah. So, um, here's what I'm hearing you saying. This is the application, uh, that I'm getting from you.

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If you're in a local body, which if you're a Christian, obviously you should be, and, um, you're watching in your, your church, or if there's a parachurch that you're involved with, you're watching your parachurch go in this direction.

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Uh, you're saying, you know, point out the people that are actually taking it in this direction, confront them, um, you know, uh, to be kind of Old Testament, put away the evil from among you.

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So, um, obviously, you know, I, I would, I need to say this. I don't think it means, uh, always being, you know, right away, uh, saying, well, you know, you're a heretic.

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Cause there's a lot of ignorant people that are pushing some of these objectives, uh, and, and not really realizing, but, but it does mean having that conversation.

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And then, you know, if there is no repentance, treat it like a false teaching, essentially. If, if someone is, uh, compromising on the gospel or bringing in a new ethic that is not from the word of God.

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So it is undermining the, the, the law of God, then, um, then confronting that as, as a sinful idea would be step number one in the circles that you're part of, and that's something we can all do, we can all,

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I mean, that's just what Paul commended the Bereans for doing even with him is just search the scriptures, compare it. And, and so you're asking nothing more than just be a discerning

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Christian. Right. That's really it. Right. Yeah. Um, but these, yeah, go ahead.

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Well, I want to say it's like, uh, I asked, I brought up Trump's name and said, who, why do they, who do they blame for electing

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Trump? The thing is, this film's not about Trump. This is not about Republican versus Democrat, but you cannot be ignorant to what the other side is doing.

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You cannot be ignorant to the fact that they believe and blame Christians, especially conservative

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Christians for electing Trump, right? So they have made it their mission to neutralize that base.

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And I want to point out something very, uh, very specific that people need to just to be cognizant of.

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Right now we are seeing out of the Gospel Coalition camp and, uh, even with Mark Dever and Lehman, uh, that happened where they are now neutralizing what the definition of the word pro -life is.

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Really? They are now saying that you, you can't, if, if I'm a pastor, they're saying, if you're a pastor at a church, then you can go tell your congregation, it's okay if you vote for pro -life because you want to protect the unborn.

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But it's also okay to vote for the socialists because they take care of the poor. Wow. I have heard some of these things, but you're,

24:21

I didn't realize that they were saying that. Yes. This came, this came, this came out of a conference where Mark Dever and John Lehman were speaking.

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So I'm just, I'm assuming Mark Dever is not the one who said that. It was Lehman. And Mark Dever was saying it's okay.

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Yeah. It's a boy. This is really tough to deal with. This is a tough subject. Yeah. So that's amazing to me.

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So, so let's put, right. So let's look at it from this standpoint. Okay. What party do pro -life

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Christians usually vote for? Usually the Republican party. Usually the Republican party.

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If they can start watering down and neutralizing what the stance and the definition of pro -life is and start whittling people away from voting pro -life, single issue voting, because you're not taking into the account to taking care of the poor, like the socialists are.

25:19

Yeah. Now they've achieved their objective. Now getting back to illegal immigration, because some people that are watching or listening to this might think, well, illegal immigration, why is that even?

25:30

That's the Bible doesn't talk about illegal immigration. That's not even an issue. But I think behind that though, there's a lot of assumptions and those are probably the things that we're more concerned about because oftentimes,

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I know when I've heard this issue brought up in these like gospel coalition type.

25:48

Okay. The gospel coalition, when they bring this up, they're very concerned about the sojourner and they twist these old

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Testament texts to make them say things that they do not say like in Deuteronomy 15.

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And then there is this assumption that citizenship is bad. Somehow that like nations are bad.

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It almost feels like tower of Babel is good. We need to just get rid of all our borders and love, love, love.

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And, and there is, in my mind, you know, if I'm talking to a Christian who believes this or has been under this teaching,

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I first asked them, okay, what's the, what's the responsibility government has?

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Okay. Now what's the responsibility the church has? Are they different? Well, yes, they are very clearly. God gives different responsibilities to both.

26:38

And that usually clears up all the confusion. There's multiple kinds of government, right? Self -government, family government, church government, and then your civil government.

26:48

Right. But they're all supposed to work hand in hand. According to the scriptures, you know, but the government does not grant us rights.

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We grant the government its powers. Yeah. And so the concern that we have,

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I think, is that the assumptions behind this objective kind of make hash meat out of the

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Bible, because, you know, you have to turn God's moral law on its head. You have to apply things to the government that don't apply to the government.

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Government was never an Institute of love and forgiveness. And it's a, it bears the sword.

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It's an Institute for justice, the church in a real justice, not social justice, but the church is supposed to be the one that takes care of more of those things and individuals and so forth.

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So the, like the sermon on the Mount would be a good example. That's not made that that was not given to the government.

27:42

The government's not supposed to turn the other cheek. Right. So, so, so we have to kind of, our

27:49

Christian ethics have to go out the window and we have to twist them at least in order to adopt this. And we also, oftentimes the, we have to go into the old

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Testament texts and take them out of context, redefine what a sojourner is. Talk about Ruth as if she's some illegal alien, which is absolutely ridiculous.

28:06

Or, you know, Mary and Joseph were refugees, which they were in the Roman empire the whole time.

28:12

There weren't refugees, but. Well, let me tell you how crazy this gets and I'll just throw it, throw it out here.

28:18

My wife went to a women's Bible study last week and the topic of conversation, there was a

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Bible study on Jonah. And Jonah was a racist nationalist.

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My wife thought that Jonah was a racist nationalist. And funny enough,

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I just said, I said, honey, this is exactly what I've been warning you about, and I knew this was going to happen. I knew,

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I knew this particular church was going to go there. I knew they were going to say this. And I said, how

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I said, what's insane is, is you're putting modern definitions in terms of nationalist and a definition of racism to Jonah.

29:01

Yeah. Okay. Who we're talking about the Assyrians, who they were at war with constantly.

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They slaughtered each other. Yeah. And it go out of your way and called Jonah a racist nationalist.

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As if it's a bad thing to, to be, you know, not the racism part, but the, to love your country though.

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Is it, I don't know. The word to care, to care about Israel, to care about the Jewish people.

29:29

He was a nationalist and didn't quite find a, wasn't very fond of the people that were murdering his people, you know?

29:40

Um, so, but they're trying to put modern definitions in terms and apply it to Jonah, I'm just saying, this is the same thing that they're doing to the

29:48

Bible when they're trying to say Jesus was a, a refugee immigrant traveling.

29:54

It's like, not quite. So, so we're back to the word game essentially, uh, which is where the language is the battle.

30:03

I'm convinced that is where it's about changing the definitions of terms. Like even the term nationalism, uh, you know, maybe like 10 years ago or before that nationalism wasn't exactly the best thing from a conservative point of view.

30:18

At least we would have said, well, we're patriotic, you know, not nationalistic. That's like, you know, national socialist, German workers party, though.

30:23

We don't, we don't believe that, you know, but, but the thing is now nationalism is being, it's, it's, it's being redefined in a sense to mean patriotism.

30:34

And that's, that's what I'm getting. It's like, well, if you love your country, no, no, let's, let's, let's not mince words.

30:40

If you're patriotic, you're a Nazi. You're a Nazi. You're a nationalist. You're national. Yeah. And you just hate everyone else.

30:46

That must mean, you know, and if you, well, it all, it, no, like let's, what is, what is the left in the modern left in America doing right now?

30:54

If you wave the American flag, you're waving a racist flag. Right. Love your country. You're patriotic.

31:00

You're racist. Now, why is the gospel coalition, uh,

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Russell Moore and the ERLC. Adopting the same language. It is contrary to scripture and it's contrary to common sense.

31:18

Yeah. So why people need to wake up to the political reality of what they're dealing with and not just the theological reality.

31:26

I was talking with someone over the weekend about this, but, um, you know, and I don't want to get into all the reasons this social justice movement has emerged when it has, but I remember, uh, yeah, five to 10 years ago, kind of during the whole, like when

31:42

David Platt put out radical, uh, there was this, there's a movement kind of to say that, you know, we're, we're a bunch of spoiled brats in the

31:50

United States to an extent. That's true. Uh, but we, um, I mean, the potential for that, uh, is certainly there, but, but that it was somehow we've stolen this from the rest of the world that, that David Platt did not say that outright in radical, but he did, um, he basically trashed the idea of the

32:09

American dream. And I remember reading it and thinking there's some good points in here, but. And I, the

32:14

American dream was a good thing in a, in a sense, that was the blessings of God. Give, I mean, this is proof that the principles of the free enterprise system and what, um, and following, you know,

32:26

Godly economics where this leads you like, praise God for that. And we, we should export this system to the rest of the world.

32:33

They could use it. They should all have their version of the American dream, but, you know, praise God that he blessed us that we have it.

32:40

And, uh, and it wasn't a far jump to go from that mentality of let's just trash the American dream, uh, to now it's bad to be patriotic.

32:48

It says, so, so says the guy that has sold a million books to evangelicals, made tons of money off it, uh, lives in a decent house and gets paid decent money to speak at conferences all over the country.

33:06

So yeah. Is he practicing what he's preaching is what you're asking.

33:14

If he's practicing what he's preaching, I would like to see him and his family live in a tent and give everything they have to the poor.

33:20

I also call on Russell Moore and Tim Keller to do the same thing. Yeah. So let's, if you're going to practice what you preach, practice what you preach, but do not criticize the country that gave you the ability to sell a million of these books and to profit nicely from it.

33:41

Yeah. It's, it's the same thing. You know, Michael Moore, uh, the leftist filmmaker has sold millions of movies and made millions of dollars off his films, but trash is capitalism.

33:51

Every chance he gets, I know it is ironic. We have, we have Bernie Sanders who says we need to be giving more to the poor and taking care of the poor.

33:58

The guy owns three houses and $120 ,000 car. So yeah, don't lecture me and knock the country that has spread the gospel more than any other nation in the history of the world that has lifted more people out of poverty than any other country in the world that has,

34:18

I mean, Oh, I know it's, it's Disneyland in this country.

34:24

These talking points and trash your own country that has done so much good.

34:30

Who wins? Yeah. Yeah. Where do these words and talking points come from?

34:35

They originated somewhere and it didn't come from America loving Americans. Yeah. And it's, it seems like a crime almost to love this country now, which is a real tragedy in my opinion.

34:49

Uh, I mean, we should be as Christians. We should probably be the best citizens of whatever country we're in.

34:55

Uh, you're fearing God, honoring the King. And, um, to, to disparage the idea of loving one's country.

35:03

It seems to be the same mentality that led to almost like the tower of Babel. It's like, you know, the nation state is a bad thing.

35:11

Well, no, it's not. It's a good thing. It's not the only thing, right? The only identity we have, of course, but, but no, it is a good thing.

35:19

Uh, and God has ordained it. I think of even Paul, uh, in Acts 17, when he's talking to the philosophers on Mars Hill and he says, you know, basically

35:27

God is the one who has ordained boundaries, sounds like borders, uh, between people groups.

35:33

So, um, so, so definitely a biblical idea, but, uh, but it's being undermined and it's being undermined by big donors who have a lot of money and in conservative institutions.

35:43

And, uh, I'm so grateful that you are exposing this. Um, is there anything, uh, you know, that you want to say any, anything that you maybe just, uh, about the film, kind of the response that you've had?

35:58

Um, I would, I would, I would, I would like to read, uh, two quotes from this book I'm reading called

36:04

AA 1025. Let's hear it. All right. First quote,

36:10

I cannot prevent myself from thinking about the unhappy seminary professors who are all dead at the time

36:19

I write this and who bore until death, each for himself, the sight of his God, the useless knowledge of the danger that I represented for the future of the church, these community confessions could take place twice a year at Easter and Christmas.

36:35

Some young priests will be trained by a solid socialist formation because it will be the, be their aim in the midst of a detailed examination of social sins to direct minds towards Marxism.

36:50

Wow. Wow. Uh, that could have been written today. Uh, and, and this is another quote.

36:57

All right. So this, this was discovered in the late 1940s.

37:04

This, this, uh, these memoirs of this agent. Okay. This is another quote from the book.

37:11

It is altogether reasonable to hope that the cure will be at hand for the year 2000. A certain number of words must be banished completely from the human vocabulary.

37:22

And the best method is to be sure that children never hear these words. That is why it is much better to compose a new catechism than to hope for a simple suppression of all religious teaching.

37:33

No, this will be possible only in two or three generations. The moment one must play with the phenomenon, phenomenon that church equals the meeting of friendly brethren or the whole world, this catechism will therefore be one of that friendship, which will replace the antiquated

37:51

Christian charity. That's almost, that's exactly what we were talking about. Yes, it is exactly what we were talking about.

37:59

This was written in the late 1940s by a communist agent who was sent to infiltrate the seminaries.

38:06

And I read this book and this guy's a diabolical psychopath, atheist. Wow. So enemies have been within Christendom for quite some time.

38:19

For political reasons, for political reasons, for political reasons. And, and the funny thing about this guy that I'm reading about is they, once he got into seminary and got in, other agents were working within, and then they got him into other areas where he started being able to write things, text, and he brags about changing prayers and catechisms and starting to allow more things in.

38:47

His whole thing was to subvert it and to eventually create a one world church that centers on man and not

38:53

God. Which sounds an awful lot like the church of the antichrist.

38:59

Which is why they call themselves anti -apostles. It's giving me goosebumps. So this is 1940s is when this guy's writing this stuff.

39:09

So, so my, my thing is, is that people cannot be Christians.

39:15

My fellow brothers and sisters cannot be naive to the fact that they wouldn't target our own institutions.

39:22

Now, some people are useful idiots that just buy in and say, oh, well, I'm convicted to do this, they taught me this.

39:28

And they buy into the garbage and the Marxism. There are others that know exactly what they are doing.

39:36

Yeah. And I tend to try in my videos to target those who might be ignorant, because there's things

39:42

I'm ignorant about and, and that, you know, ignorance can be fixed easily, just, you know, teach someone some knowledge and wisdom, right.

39:50

It's from the word of God, but, but yeah, I, you know, right now we're talking to Christians, we're talking to people that understand this, they're woke to it.

40:01

They know, they know what's, that there's a problem and we're trying to address that. But I do try to focus on the ignorant people, but there, there are some who they, they know what they're doing.

40:11

And that seems like what you just read. This guy knows what he's doing. Oh yeah. And, um, and there are people like that even today, they know exactly what they're doing.

40:20

And I was going to ask you this. How much of this do you think is a spiritual battle?

40:27

The reason I ask is because when someone gives me a conspiracy theory, let's say one that sometimes, let's say it's a ridiculous one, you believe in conspiracy theories, uh, and I'll say, you know, you

40:38

Illuminati or something like that at all. I usually say, you know what? I believe I'll take it a step further.

40:44

I believe in this ultimate conspiracy theory. I think there is an immaterial, uh, person, uh, the devil.

40:51

I think there's a spirit and I think he's got a horde of spirits and I think they are undermining even governments as Daniel shows us the book of Daniel.

40:59

So, uh, they're involved in, in, yeah. You want to talk about cloaks and daggers? Let's talk about spiritual warfare.

41:06

And, and that's a, that does exist. And look, I am, I'm a reform guy. I'm not, uh, you know,

41:12

I'm even like, I'm not even a continuationist, but, uh, no, I believe there is a spiritual war going on out there.

41:18

How much of that do you think is part of what you're facing? It's, uh, at the end of the day, that's all it is.

41:27

As a Christian in the heart. That's what I believe it is. It is good versus evil.

41:34

Now, the thing is, is that we as Christians need to take a hard stand and stop tolerating evil.

41:45

Okay. We need to confront it. We need to put on our big boy, masculine Christian pants and start fighting evil.

41:52

I think those are in the dusty drawer. I think you'll find those. Yeah, they're in the dusty drawer.

41:57

And, uh, I was having a conversation with somebody the other day about, about, uh, Jesus, right? Jesus was a carpenter.

42:04

Okay. And somebody who was actually in Israel and walked around like Jesus had to been pretty muscular guy with muscles, with agility to get around how he did and where he went.

42:16

Okay. Jesus was not the skinny little pansy with long hair. Mm hmm. Jesus was actually tough and he was brilliant in how he communicated with people, but he also turned over tables.

42:32

He premeditated beating people with a bullwhip as he sat under a tree and weaved it.

42:39

Now we need to quit being naive and fake nice.

42:47

If we truly love our brother. If we truly love our fellow Christian, if we truly care about the church of Jesus Christ, we need to confront evil and expose the wolves in sheep's clothing.

43:03

And we need to quit giving somebody a pass because they said something wonderful five years ago. When somebody is in complete error and they have to twist scripture to prove a point, they need to be rebuked.

43:18

I agree. If they're twisting scripture to preach a Christianity that is not within orthodoxy, they must be rebuked.

43:25

And if they don't repent, we must disassociate fellowship with them. Quit supporting them. Quit promoting their websites.

43:32

If quit buying their books. Amen. Amen. Yeah. Sorry for my passionate rant, but no,

43:40

I'm glad. I'm glad that you're out there. The people like you exist and you are saying something.

43:46

Sometimes, you know, I'm saying this for the benefit of those watching. Sometimes we can feel alone.

43:53

You know, I remember being at Southeastern for years and just thinking, am

44:01

I the only one at times? Do I see this and no one else sees it? And then, you know, secular school, it was the same thing though.

44:08

I'd be sitting in class when my professor would say something completely off the wall wrong.

44:14

Am I the only one? And I had the tendency for the benefit of others in there to say, okay,

44:20

I'm going to raise my hand, I'm going to do it, but you know, I'm afraid. And when

44:25

I did, I remember being approached by people after class. You know, Hey, I agree with you. Whisper, whisper, you know, that's like, that's a story in my life.

44:34

Where were you, man? Where were you? Yeah, that's, that's, that's the story of my life. I, uh, um, uh, yeah, yeah,

44:42

I don't, I don't, I get, I get, I get, I get, I could share a personal story and people, people ask, why am

44:49

I crazy? Why am I radical? Why do I do the things that I do? You know, and, uh, it all started in seventh grade for me.

44:58

I grew up in a Christian school, transitioned to a, what they call lab school, which was affiliated with a university and my first day of a non -Christian school, the teacher asked the class, this is in the early nineties.

45:10

Okay. Teacher asked the class, she goes, kids, what do you think about homosexuality?

45:17

How old are you? Seventh grade, 13 years old, early nineties. Okay. And the teacher and the teacher goes to the room.

45:28

She goes, how many of you think that there's nothing wrong with it? And it's okay. Half the class raised their hand.

45:36

And she goes, how many of you aren't sure? The other half of the class raised their hand and she goes, how many of you disagree with it?

45:49

I raised my hand and she goes, Judd stand up. So I stood up, she went back to the chalkboard and wrote the words homophobic on the chalkboard.

46:03

Wow. And then, and then turn around and look to me and she goes, Judd, you're a homophobic.

46:09

And I said, and I said, what's homophobic. I didn't know what the word was. I'm only 13. Never heard of this word. And, uh, she goes and she goes, you don't like gay people because you're afraid of them.

46:22

And I said, no, I'm not afraid of gay people. I said, homosexuality is a sin and it's abomination against God.

46:35

And she goes, no, Judd, you don't like them because you're afraid of them. And I said, no, I said, I don't,

46:40

I don't agree with it because it's a sin against God. And we went through this back and forth until she looked at me, said,

46:46

Judd, shut up and sit down. That was my baptism into the secular world in the early nineties.

46:53

Now, the school that I went to was very, uh, it was the advanced, uh, curriculum that all schools would adapt.

47:02

It's a training school for, uh, secular teachers. And so they experimented with, uh, with liberal programs on us kids.

47:10

I didn't know I was walking into that, but I had a solid foundation because my parents raised me in the church and in a conservative home.

47:18

Praise God. And they talked about politics and issues with me. So I had a way and a knowledge to defend myself.

47:26

I shouldn't have had to do that in seventh grade, but I knew right then and there and what I went through, uh, in the following years is exactly how they operate, how they isolate, how they marginalize and how they try to change your way of thinking.

47:40

There's a song growing up that you might've sung it to at church, but dare to be a

47:46

Daniel, dare to stand alone, dare to have a purpose firm, dare to make it known. Uh, we need to get back to that.

47:52

We need more Daniels. And I don't know if kids still sing that in church. I haven't heard it in a while, but, um,

47:59

I'm not in kid Sunday school classes, but no, no, no, we need to get, let's, let's just say, to be honest, we need to get back to more masculine worship songs.

48:07

Absolutely. You know, reckless love onward. Christian soldiers type of thing. Roman 1619.

48:15

Right. Yeah. Um, anyway, it's, you know, the whole thing is though, is that, uh, there are people like, like how

48:23

I was as a kid, people like you at Southeastern that feel marginalized and they are taught, they are taught to identify you in marginalize you.

48:32

All right. They will either bully you into their way of thinking or they will push you out.

48:37

Yeah. But they will not tolerate any dissent into their mindset because they are trained to, uh, marginalize either disassociate or essentially bully you into their way of thinking.

48:54

Well, even if everyone else is wrong, God is a majority. And if we're with him, we're in the majority.

49:00

So, um, so that's where we need to take our courage from, you know, stand with the word of God, stand with the

49:05

Bible. And, uh, and if we have some extra income fund, this film, that's right.

49:12

And I'll add one more thing about the film. You left it open. So we've gotten a lot of interviews done.

49:18

We've done a lot with little, uh, but we were at the point where in order for us to progress, we need to raise our full budget, take this to the next level, make this film a great film.

49:29

That's palatable, easy for people to understand. And it's not just naming names and pointing out, you know, funding sources and where the money's coming from.

49:38

Yes, we have to do that because we want to change things, but we're also correcting the errors theologically that have led us up to this point.

49:47

I'm just going to throw out three things. Have fun looking it up. Everybody. Pietism, situational ethics, and antinomianism.

49:56

Yeah. Jed, you were telling me too, we're kind of close with this, I guess, but you were telling me that you want to have a library, not just the film, because the film is going to make all sorts of inroads, but you want a library on enemies within the church, uh, church's website.

50:12

Yes. All the different organizations, the different ideas and resources by which people can recognize, fight them, uh, argue against them.

50:24

We're, we want to, we want to, we, we already have so much more footage than what we can already use as far as great interviews go.

50:33

But our goal is to micro focus on certain subjects and then create subsequent mini films, mini documentaries that people can go, okay,

50:44

I get the whole story on this because in a fee, in a, in a film we have 90 minutes to tell a story.

50:49

We have 90 minutes to present our information. That's not enough to go into, uh, so many details.

50:57

So we want to be a resource. We're going to follow up. We're going to create more videos and more.

51:03

If you want to dive in to what we're going to, we're going to have those resources available and books and several people we've talked to are going to contribute resources.

51:13

We have to fight this and we have to give the tools to you. So it's not just a movie. We want to be part of the movement that is going to bring the church back on the right path.

51:24

And we want to work with everybody who's doing that. Well, thank you so much, Judd. If you want to be part of the movement and you're watching this, go to enemieswithinthechurch .com,

51:34

enemieswithinthechurch .com. You can find out more about it. Watch the trailer for the film. Um, I, I know

51:40

Judd, I know pastor Gordon. Uh, I met him and I trust these guys they're doing a good work.